Klein: "I never said that the left hates America [... exactly]"
SUMMARY: In a May 2 washingtonpost.com chat, Time magazine senior writer and columnist Joe Klein denied he had ever said that "the left hates America." But in an April 14 entry on the Huffington Post weblog, Klein stated that the "left wing" of the Democratic Party has a "hate America tendency."
In a May 2 washingtonpost.com online chat, Time magazine senior writer and columnist Joe Klein denied he had ever said that "the left hates America," in response to a chat participant who denounced what the participant described as Klein's " 'the Left hates America' rhetoric." But -- contrary to Klein's denial -- as Media Matters for America noted, in an April 14 entry on the Huffington Post weblog, Klein stated that the "left wing" of the Democratic Party has a "hate America tendency."
During the May 2 chat, Klein responded to a reader who stated that "[a]nybody that engages in this 'the Left hates America' rhetoric are [sic] among the greatest threats to civil discourse." Klein claimed that he "never said that the left hates America," but rather that "the Left sometimes indulges in 'hate America' rhetoric, especially when it comes to foreign policy." He added that "some on the left have the knee-jerk assumption that America is always wrong when it uses force," while "others on the left seem to assume that America is a malignant force in the world." He concluded: "I have no time for those who assume our country is somehow evil."
But beyond accusing the left of "hate America rhetoric," Klein stated -- in his April 14 Huffington Post entry, in which he defended remarks he reportedly made at an April 11 breakfast attended by him and media critic Eric Alterman:
What I actually said was "the hate America tendency of the [Democratic Party's] left wing" had made it harder for Democrats to challenge Republicans on foreign policy.
Based on his May 2 chat comments, Klein appears to be drawing a distinction between saying that the left hates America -- which he denies having said -- and saying that the Democratic "left wing" has a "hate America tendency," which he wrote on April 14. His argument seems to be the following: He didn't say that the left hates America; he said that the left tends to hate America. If there is a distinction between the two statements, Klein has yet to explain it. Nor has Klein explained the difference between claiming that "the left hates America" -- which, again, he denies having said -- and the statement Alterman reported that Klein made on April 11, that "for the past twenty years," the message of the left wing of the Democratic Party has been "that they hate America." And Klein has yet to explain the difference between saying the left "hates America" and his May 2 online comment that the left views America as "malignant" and "evil."
As Media Matters also noted, in his Huffington Post item, Klein defended his April 11 breakfast remarks by claiming that Alterman mistook his criticism of leftist Democrats as criticism of liberal Democrats. In fact, as Alterman noted in response, and as Media Matters documented, Klein regularly attacks "liberals" and Democrats in general, making no distinction between "liberals" and "leftists." In at least one instance, he characterized Democrats as "a party with absolutely no redeeming social value."
From the May 2 washingtonpost.com online chat:
Tucson, Ariz: Joe, With all due respect, I think you are one of the last people to be talking about the state of American politics. Anybody that engages in this "the Left hates America" rhetoric are among the greatest threats to civil discourse.
When will people realize this is pure rubbish?
I am liberal and I bleed the red, white and blue. I love my country. It is not unpatriotic to point out flaws in your government's policies in hopes of fixing them. It is my patriotism that drives me to these lengths. I believe in America.
However, over the last few years, America has seriously lost its way. We blundered a golden opportunity after 9/11. Since then, political discourse in America has devolved into legitimizing torture by DEFENDING it.
Instead of granting legitimacy to an illegitmate characterization of the Left, why aren't we talking about real issues?
War profiteering and waste in Iraq, domestic spying (which is illegal in my opinion), a president that is shoring up power of all three branches in his hands, secret prisons...
--Matthew
Joe Klein: I never said that the left hates America. I said the Left sometimes indulges in "hate America" rhetoric, especially when it comes to foreign policy. I've said that some on the left have the knee-jerk assumption that America is always wrong when it uses force--and that others on the left seem to assume that America is a malignant force in the world. I respect your patriotism and your right to criticize the government -- I do it myself just about every week in my column. But I have no time for those who assume our country is somehow evil.
And I never said "conservatives are inbred monkeys."
I never actually called Bush "Satan". I said he has diabolical tendencies.
Sounds almost like the old Weapons of Mass Destruction related program activities...
and take responsibility or your own words! Otherwise, pay more attention next time or just leave to find another job.
This sounds like the same argument the Bush administration on Iraq.
They claimed over and over against that they never actually used the word "imminent" to describe the threat Iraq posed, even though it was clearly implied when saying Iraq could nuke us within minutes, spoke of mushroom clouds over our cities, and pointed out over and over again how we "can't wait for another 9/11".
The Daily Howler has been running a pretty extensive critique of Klein's new book. You have to suffer through Somerby's bizarre criticisms of Stephen Colbert at the Correspondent's Dinner (in which he repeatedly assures you that something you laughed at wasn't funny), but it's worth it.
The Daily Howler has done some great work (esp. election coverage), but it's really gone down the tubes in the past year or so. For months - months! - it was nothing but Somerby's soapbox on education issues, and how he's right and everyone else is wrong. It got dull very fast.
I have no idea how he can criticize Colbert for being "inappropriate". He claims to have watched the show; Stephen's entire speech was in the exact same style, and about 20% of it was directly from the show. Why is he whining about it when the organizers of the event must have gotten exactly what they expected? If they wanted someone to give light-hearted jabs, Colbert is the last person they would have picked.
Anyway...on his good days, yeah, Sotheby does quite a good job of fact-checking and analysis. It can be a good supplement to MMFA.
"I have no time for those who assume our country is somehow evil." And those people would be...who?
God, Klein is so stupid. Conservatives would have us believe that the effect of our actions in the world isn't what's important--what matter are our intentions and our inherent national goodness. Therefore, every fair-minded critique of their actions is treated like a questioning of American intentions or inherent goodness.
Liberals, on the other hand, believe that actions do matter. That the most powerful nation on Earth has an obligation to look before it leaps, and that we can't escape responsibility for the consequences of our actions by muttering, "but I meant well! We're good people!"
Liberals don't think Americans are evil. We think conservatives are stupid and reckless, and they've gotten away with it because people keep saying to them, "it's Okay, little boy, you meant well." I'm sorry, but holding a politician accountable for the consequences of his flawed ideological approach isn't "hating America," it's refusing to let ideologues and lunatics drag America over a cliff!
I can see why a conservative would want to pretend that criticizing America's policy decisions after they've led to an inevitable catastrophe is the same thing as saying "America bad." What I don't understand is why anyone with an IQ over 50 would fall for it.
Of blurring the distinction between WHO we are and WHAT we sometimes do. Criticise the latter and they turn it immediatly into criticism of the former. Klien isnt a fire breathing rightwingnut but he has bought into the inane framing of the issue. Mores the pity
Hey Joe - It's far easier to deride the view of someone on the left and avoid arguing the specifics of an issue, isn't it?
"But I have no time for those who assume our country is somehow evil. "
As anyone with a brain knows this is pure conservative talking points rubbish.
The country is not evil but policy has been put in place in our name that I think is against our stated values countless times as anyone with a small knowledge of our history understands.
This is all part of the conservative crap "the left hates" our country nonsense.
If your house has a leak in roof and you point it out does that mean you hate your house? Of course not. If I or anyone else didn't care about the country we would be so upset by the train wreck the Bush administration is and many of us saw coming when he was elected.
This makes me so angry, mainly because it is used to short cut any thinking about what is going on in our country.
I can say that the people l have spoken to don't hate Americar think it's evil, they just think that those in the current administration have done evil things to innocent people for money. Unless you are saying that all those dead Iraqis were your ememies, not just people who lived under a brutal leader but at least had the things they needed to live, like water, electricity, hospitals, etc.....
especially after the way they treated everyone else for the last 13+ years. What goes around, comes around. It isn't hate america, it's just fate catching up with them (finally!)
...the philosophical distinction between 'being evil and doing evil.
The right apparently thinks that because t'we're the good guys', everything we do is good.
That's tribal thinking. Typical of them.
Us dirty ex-hippies who actually read that guy in a dress--what was his name? Aristosomebody?--are at home with the idea that a person or a group can do evil and yet not beevil.
Joe wants to believe in America. Fine. So do I.
But Al Franken nailed it: Joe wants to believe in America the way he believes in Daddy. Always right, always the best, always the richest and most handsome, and a secret agent and an astronaut!
I think the idea of America is the one hope for the world, for humanity not to tear itself to pieces: tolerance, individualism, allowing competition, helping those who need help.
That's what we believe we are. But that's not always how we act. We certainly aren't acting that way now.
Progressives believe that America can lose its mantle if we're not careful. Wingers think our white hat grows out of our head.
Grow up, Joe.
JK has morphed into a writer whose word sentences are not what have meaning. Rather, it is how he says them. He may be confusing his written words with his comments as a media pundit. There are shrill liberals and conseratives in the land today. Very few hate America. Rather, liberals are simply fed up with the political lies flooding the country. Joe would better serve his readers and listeners by exposing and analyzing such lies and their damage to responsible political discourse, not to mention to public policy. My experience is that liberals, as do ordinary people, hate lies for what they have done in the past and are presently doing to America. JK owes Americas liberals an apology.
before Klien apologies for calling democrats names. He can not afford to, he would lose all the lucrative gigs he gets on Hardball, and the other progressive hating shows that he appears on. I hate to sound like a book burner, but the only option I have is to use the money I might have spent on his book, for causes or media that are at least willing to consider my point of view.
word engineering.
The workings of sites like Daily Kos, Dem. Underground and Media Matters has at last become clear. You folks support fellow leftists who lie while attacking those who periodically tell the truth. How many administration hit pieces will Klein have to write in order to get back into your good graces? Is there a chart for this anywhere? You know, 20 shameless attack articles to make up for one careless moment of truth telling? Klein was on PBS during election night of 2004 discussing the possibility that republicans were staging a coup d'etat because the vote had not gone the way the left had wanted. So clearly, someone this goofy can't just be summarily dispatched from his position of moonbat honor!
Klein said:
"some on the left have the knee-jerk assumption that America is always wrong when it uses force"
May I say in reply to that:
Guatemala, Cuba, Vietnam, Chile, Dominican Republic, Grenada, Nicaragua, Panama, and of course Iraq. Please explain to me why anyone in the right mind WOULDN'T have a knee-jerk assumption that America is always wrong when it uses force?
I don't see what Klein is afraid of...he is right..these left-wing wackos do hate America:
Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Example 4
Example 5
Example 6
Example 7
Example 8
Say or advocate stupid things and that means the left hates America. By that logic rightwingers are ignorant morons. I mean since YOU are and you are an example of rightwingnuts, it is just as valid an assertion
"Say or advocate stupid things and that means the left hates America."
Yes, exactly..when you have marches sponsored by ANSWR, World Can't Wait and other radical left-wing groups and the people at those rallies have signs which say "Death to America", show the American flag in a trash can, and burn American flag that shows that they hate America. What do you not understand about this???
"By that logic rightwingers are ignorant morons. I mean since YOU are and you are an example of rightwingnuts, it is just as valid an assertion"
Can you please give one example of something I've said that is false or ignorant? You are such a typical liberal who makes assertions without any evidence or proof to back it up. Notice how in my post I gave 8 examples backing up my claim. Have yet to see you provide one. So no, it is not a valid assertion.
[link to www.kkk.com]
These conservatives hate America.
who ever claimed that those people were conservatives?? Only you..that doesn't make them conservative because you say they are...
They proclaim it proudly.
Moderates? Liberals?
"What would you call them? Moderates? Liberals?"
Racist, disgusting, non-political affiliated scumbags...
Wrong.
The third one is a well-known photoshop job, probably by some deceitful right-winger.
I see a few expressing some solidarity with resistance to an illegal invasion. No problem there, right?
A couple of the others mention Bush specifically, not America in general.
And if you think THAT's the same thing...well, there's no hope for you, is there?
Pictures 3, 4 & 8 are obvious fakes. Very amateurishly done too. And as you say, a few show people with views dissenting from the administrations. I think that a few of the pictures aren't even taken in America.
As far as I can tell though, picture number 5 (my favorite) is authentic.
Oh! to be young again.
"Pictures 3, 4 & 8 are obvious fakes. Very amateurishly done too. "
Yea real fake...You have any proof of this you'd like to offer.
"And as you say, a few show people with views dissenting from the administrations. I think that a few of the pictures aren't even taken in America. "
You are totally and completely wrong.
[link to www.zombietime.com]
This page is a compilation of the most shocking and sought-after photographs that I have taken at rallies and other poltical events in Northern California. (The main zombie page, containing all these images and hundreds more, can be found at [link to www.zombietime.com.)]
The pictures below were all taken in San Francisco, except where noted.
Other pics are from San Francisco
[link to www.freerepublic.com]
Yea, "Death to America" and "F--- Middle America" That's "dissent from the administration" Yes, calling the president of the US a terrorist and a racist is dissent. You nailed it.
"The third one is a well-known photoshop job, probably by some deceitful right-winger."
You have any evidence of this???? Or just another baseless claim you libs like to make all the time.
"I see a few expressing some solidarity with resistance to an illegal invasion. No problem there, right?"
Well, yes...when you are supporting Iraqi resistance which is fighting against and killing soldiers of America's military, Yes, I see a problem with that.
"Death to America"
So that sign doesn't represent hatred of America??
Both sides of politics have extremes.
To state that the left hates America by showing a few extreme signs as your proof is disingenuous.
It would be like stating that all religious organizations hate the military because of a few wing nuts dishonor a solider by protesting at a funeral.
Or all right to life supporters are crazy murderers because a few people in their group try to kill Dr. or bomb clinics.
Or that all conservatives are racists because some members of the party make extreme racial comments.
Nice try, but your proof and gross generalizations are weak.
If I provide you with a list of examples are you going to concede that all Conservatives are military hating, murderous, racists?
At the risk of being accused of a personal attack (btw I don't remember EVERYONE on the left saying that personal attacks are wrong.. nice generalization yet again) your argument and logic is childish.
"Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and another said "Thank God for IEDs."
So by your logic - all conservative religous groups must hate our solders and our country!
Would you care for the links?
just to debunk this one again...that church was actually founded by a Democrat (Fred Phelps) and his daughter (Shirley Phelps Roper) are actually registered Democrats and supporters of Al Gore...nice try though...
[link to www.exposetheleft.com]
"Phelps has run in numerous Democratic primary elections for governor of the predominantly Republican state of Kansas, in 1990, 1994, and the last time in 1998, when he came in second with 15,000 votes out of a total of over 103,000 votes cast, or 15%.[72]"
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
so that actually isn't an example of the extreme right-wing....good try though..
I'm well aware of Phelps background and his affiliation with Al and Tipper Gore in the past. If you notice I stated that Phelp's runs a conservative religious organization - Not Republican Party sponsored group. You also ingorned the other examples, I wonder why that is?
Your obviously too thick to get the point of the post - Generalizing people - i.e. All Liberals Hate America here are my 8 examples - makes you sound like an idoit.
That's like Bush calling himself liberal. He can say it all he wants, but it's clear to anyone that he's not.
Phelps is obviously not a democrat. How can you belive it? I mean, really: even though at some point he said he was, how can you look at what he thinks and honestly believe it? He doesn't sound like a repub to me either. He's just a hateful freak.
Just a professional opinion based on more than 30 years in the field of photo manipulation.
Funny. You're the same kind of person that will say, "So what if the KKK votes Republican!? It doesn't represent our party!" And yet, a handful of "leftist" protesters represent the Democratic Party?
Last time I checked, it was far right religious fanatics saying "Thank God For 9/11" and "Thank God For Dead Soldiers" -- not liberals.
"Funny. You're the same kind of person that will say, "So what if the KKK votes Republican!? It doesn't represent our party!" And yet, a handful of "leftist" protesters represent the Democratic Party? "
The KKK is an evil vile disgusting group. Any sane conservative would condemn them. However, can't say the same about you guys. You guys don't even condemn these disgusting signs "Death to America" or people burning the American flag or calling our President a terrorist or worse than Osama Bin Laden. That's the difference.
"Last time I checked, it was far right religious fanatics saying "Thank God For 9/11" and "Thank God For Dead Soldiers" -- not liberals."
Well, Falwell/Robertson are crazy and they don't represent the majority of conservatives....also, the Dead Soldiers thing was actually done by Democrats; see my earlier posts.
You guys don't even condemn these disgusting signs "Death to America" or people burning the American flag or calling our President a terrorist or worse than Osama Bin Laden.
I don't condone "death to america." However, flag burning is a protected right, and an effective tool for protest. And, while I wouldn't call bush a terrorist, I can easily see why many people would, and it's their right to say so.
"However, flag burning is a protected right, and an effective tool for protest."
Yes, it is a morally reprehensible (unfortunately) protected right..So you have no problem with the protesters a few weeks ago that burned the Mexican flag then? They should not face charges for that, correct?
"And, while I wouldn't call bush a terrorist, I can easily see why many people would, and it's their right to say so."
No one isn't saying they don't have a right to say it. I'm just saying that it is disgusting, vile, and most importantly complete false. To equate any POTUSA (Republican, Democrat, etc..) with people like Osama Bin Laden or suicide bombers that go into markets and kill innocent women and children or Zarqawi who personally slits the throats and beheads innocent Americans is just wrong, both morally and factually. And that fact that you empathize/understand that disgusting comparison shows just how loony and how hateful your side is.
Bush has killed far more women and children than Zarqawi ever will. He is a bona fide criminal, and your failure to admit it, or to even CONSIDER it, shows that you are a complete friggin' moron.
"Bush has killed far more women and children than Zarqawi ever will. He is a bona fide criminal, and your failure to admit it, or to even CONSIDER it, shows that you are a complete friggin' moron."
This pretty shows that you lie on the extreme fringe of left wing radicalism. First, Bush hasn't killed anyone. He doesn't fire a gun or isn't fighting anywhere against people. So he hasn't killed anyone. Now you may consider him responsible for the unfortunate deaths of women and children which happen during the war attacking the terrorists but our military doesn't target innocent civilians; Zarqawi does. If you can't see the difference between our military and Zarqawi then you're a sad sad individual.
First you state
they do hate America I don't see what Klein is afraid of...he is right..these left-wing wackos do hate America
then you state Well, Falwell/Robertson are crazy and they don't represent the majority of conservatives.
You can't have it both ways. Your ready to paint liberals with a very broad brush and then you back off anything to do with Falwell or Roberton - FYI the 700 club had an average daily audiance of 922,000 households in Jan of 2005
It must be all of those liberals watching or Phelp's style "democrates" right?
Maybe we aren't constantly condemning the things you demand we condemn because we don't really care what you want us to say, and aren't really inclined to perform at your behest. As Jon Stewart would say, we're not your monkeys.
Those pictures could just as well be of right-wingers.
Yes, because ANSWR and World Can't Wait rallies are overflowing with right-wingers.....
seriously, this could be the stupidest comment since Deez Nuts said that "illegal immigration is a victimless crime"
who ever claimed that those people were liberals?? Only you..that doesn't make them liberals because you say they are...
Sound familiar?
"who ever claimed that those people were liberals?? "
any sane individual... these people admit that they are liberals and call themselves liberals....Labeling Bush a racist, facist, comparing him to Hitler and supporting resistance in Iraq which is killing/injuring our soldiers...a lot of conservatives are really pushing those thoughts/ideas these days..
"Grhino? An ignorant moron??? Oh, yes, you are right."
I thought you guys were supposed to be against personal attacks. After all, isn't every other post on O'Reilly & Limbaugh on personal attacks and smears. Isn't that what Franken complains about in his books and on his show?? In any case, please give at least 1 example of me being an ignorant moron without making a baseless assertion.
Grhino,
I saw the pictures but I did not see where they came from. Can you give the background to each of these. Just because the picture is doing something that says they are angry at the US does not mean they are on the right. Case in point is the Ultra Conservative Right wing church called the westboro baptist church (www.godhatefags.com) continuously protest at military funerals. Under your logic I could now say the Right Wing hates America. Or maybe all churches hate America. Of course neither would be true. But using your logic it would be. So I guess you hate America.
"I saw the pictures but I did not see where they came from. Can you give the background to each of these. "
They are from various protest rallies including some from San Fran and other cities in CA, and also from recent NYC anti-war rally held a week or 2 ago.. Most can be found at www.zombietime.com
"Case in point is the Ultra Conservative Right wing church called the westboro baptist church (www.godhatefags.com) continuously protest at military funerals. Under your logic I could now say the Right Wing hates America. Or maybe all churches hate America. Of course neither would be true. But using your logic it would be. So I guess you hate America."
See, here is where you are wrong. First, I will openly condemn the church and say that they are wrong, stupid, and do not represent the Christian faith. You guys, on the other hand, have never denounced the people at these rallies that have just vile and disgusting messages and signs. Second, you identify the church as "Ultra Conservative Right Wing". Intersting considering that Phelps (founder) and his daughter are registered Democrats and both supporters of Al Gore.
[link to www.exposetheleft.com]
So, you would actually be wrong to first, characterize the church as ultra-conservative right-wing and then second, to say that it represents the majority viewpoint of the right-wing.
Despite many claims to the contrary, it is IMPOSSIBLE to be evil. Only actions and intent can be evil, people cannot inherently be evil.
Saying that someone is evil is disingenuous, because it is only the person's actions that can be described as evil. Claiming that someone is evil implies that EVERY action this person undertakes is by definition evil, and that's just not possible.
The same goes with the word 'hate'. How exactly does someone 'hate' America? Makes no sense to me. Hate implies a lack of compassion for, a lack of sympathy for, or possibly intolerance of whatever it is that you hate.
Tell me, by the actions and desires of the American left, how exactly do we lack compassion for, lack sympathy for, or have intolerance for our own country?
... that we despise what this Administration is doing to our nation.
This Administration, in conjunction with a Majority GOP Congress, has ...
* exposed covert intelligence operations and people.
* plunged us into national-security threatening debt.
* made a secret deal with energy companies, which has resorted in record high gas prices and record high profits for the gas companies.
* attacked a nation on the basis of numerous shifting LIES.
* approved torture.
* approved and engaged in wiretapping of American citizens without a warrant.
* failed to properly equip our soldiers in the field.
* failed to heed the experienced advice of top generals about troop levels needed to accomplish the mission.
* a score of other things, including outright corruption and bribe taking, conflicts of interest between administration officials and companies making billions in taxpayer-funded contracts, and stating boldly that the president does NOT have to follow laws passed by congress.
Because we liberals LOVE America, and because all the above actions are VIOLATIONS of America's principles and ideals, we liberals will continue to state the obvious; that America is under assault from within.
And it's not a threat from ANYBODY exercising their freedom of speech, as KLINE would have us believe.
America is threatened by those who take ACTION, using the power of public office, in the American people's name.
A child carrying a protest sign, or a self-admitted Communist making a speech, is NO THREAT to America. A president who would LIE us into WAR is a great threat.
Figure out the difference, Kline. It's not rocket science.
your post is aiding the terrorists. Unless you love terrorism, you'll stop with your criticisms!
Why don't you learn to spell his name correctly Tex.
"K-L-E-I-N"
We don't want to fill the forum with typo corrections.:)
That is one heck of a response, RINO. You really put Tex in his place with that one.
please don't comment until you are fully able to understand that World Can't Wait and ANSWR are left-wing liberal organizations which have rallies attended by radical left-wing liberals (except for a few rare conservatives who go to photograph and document the madness and vileness). Until you are able to comprehend a simple basic fact such as that one, you only bring down the quality of the discussion.
Wasn't it the far right that was saying that 9-11 was God's way of punishing America? That seems kind of "hate" to me. Don't forget all the things Coulter, BOR, Limbaugh say. 90% is attack.
Someone once said: "When Americans THINK, Democrats win." I tend to agree. The Rep. dont want you to think. They want you to believe that they are the party of Unity. Just look at the make up of their party and you can see what kind of unity they believe in. Oh, I sorry, that is "tend" to be...right Klien?
Klein is liberal! H e knows full well right wing stupidity. What he says seems to fit some people,but I would not linger on them.Who doubts there are nuts on the left?
is best done with the imaginary. People go to church to hear two things. First but not foremost is that they are themselves saved. What they really want to hear is that others are lost, going to hell. Heaven and hell are imaginary places. Oh, but they are real in the minds of the faithful. It's human nature.
Fights draw big crouds. The Romans made torture and murder into an art form. In Rome, some were saved while others were fed to the lions. People love to see others suffer so the croud cheered wildly as the lion tore the victim apart.
Mr Bush has capitalized on people being condemned to the greates suffering one can imagine. But it divides and does not unite. And Mr Bush went straight for the jugular employing the greates terror possible, hell. The saved voted for him while those they comdemned to hell, well, they can just go to hell, exactly why people go to church to hear, they are saved but most of all that all others are lost.
America is now divided. The two groups are the saved and the lost. I'd say mission accompolished Mr President. Now you can preside over the abortion that brought us for a government. Abortion? Where have I heard that word before?
He's just using Hate America as a lazy newspeak term.
Back when Clinton was in office, the right wing pundits would constantly carp on the evils of the Hate America First Crowd (tm). This was mainly anyone who didn't agree with the imperialist/corporatist elements of American foreign policy.
So the conversation would pick up on some instance of a Democrat suggesting that we make some policy decision based on our sense of fair play and concern for humanity rather than greed and lust for power, and the pundits would nod and agree that the Democrat in question was a member of the Hate America First Crowd (tm).
In their worldview, the USA is always right by definition. When liberals worry that we might not do the right thing, it's practically sacreligious because it implies that it's possible for the USA to do wrong. Hate America First (tm) is actually codeword for a lack of faith in America's infallibility.
Apparently Klein has internalized that codeword to the point that he doesn't recognize the original meaning of the words.
is probably frustrated, a little nervous. It comes from, "an eye for an eye" while, "trrning the other cheek" combined with, "love thy enemies" while, "smiting them." Just as long as they're consistent, have a uniform set of lies. Sorry, meant to say undeniable truths.
How can discourse get any dumber?
Klein says that certain members of the left "hate America." He doesn't say who or how. He is called on the statement, and he continues to be vague - some people on the left think that America is a malignant force in the world, but he doesn't identify who. Noam Chomsky? Cindy Sheehan? Certainly not the Democratic party that authorized the use of force in Iraq.
If he identified someone, there might be a basis for discussion as to whether some people on the left were motivated by an anti-American bias. But, since he didn't, there isn't even anything to discuss.
Instead, people start chatting about the authenticity of signs on the blog of a guy who calls himself Zombie. His "hall of shame" includes marchers for the "Breasts Not Bombs" event and aging practictioners of scrotal inflation who wear weird body paint. [link to www.zombietime.com]
Perhaps that is who Klein means - the breast baring, scrotal inflating leftists. But funny thing is I've never heard of these people until I looked up Zombie's blog, which I think tells me more about Zombie than the left.
If this is a reflection of America - some vacuous pundit makes an absurdly irrelevant and empty charge, which leads to a discussion of whether Zombie's pictures portray real people, only insane people, or the people this vacuous pundit refused to specifically identify - then I suppose I would be nuts not to hate it.
Michelle has done this before:
1. Post obscure and possibly doctored photos of protests which the MSM "won't show," to demonstrate liberal bias; and
2. Post the same photos to establish why it is common knowledge that the left (whoever they might be) is full of hate, hates America, has an irrational hatred of Bush or otherwise is not worthy of being taken seriously -
which is a neat sleight of hand, since she gets to argue either that the information is hidden from the public or common knowledge, at her option.