North asked why Dean hadn't denounced anti-gay protesters at soldiers' funerals
SUMMARY: On Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, Fox News host Oliver North told Sean Hannity that it was "interesting" that he had "not heard" Howard Dean denounce protesters who have disrupted the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq, implying that the protestors were liberals or Democratic supporters. Neither North nor Hannity explained that the protesters are, in fact, members of the virulently anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas.
On the May 11 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, retired Marine colonel and Fox News host Oliver North told Sean Hannity that it was "interesting" that he had "not heard" Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean denounce protesters who have disrupted the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq, implying that the protesters are liberals or Democratic supporters. Neither North nor Hannity explained that the protesters are, in fact, members of the virulently anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) of Topeka, Kansas. North did not say why Dean, in particular, should denounce the protesters.
Later in the segment, co-host Alan Colmes said to North and Hannity: "I just want to second what you both said about the funerals of soldiers. We all agree on that. It's not about Howard Dean and politicizing it." North then asked, "Well, then why doesn't Dean denounce it?" Colmes responded, "It has nothing to do with Howard Dean."
A Media Matters for America search* of the Nexis database uncovered no evidence that Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman has denounced the anti-gay protesters.
A May 9 Associated Press article noted that members of the WBC, under the leadership of Rev. Fred Phelps, have "carried signs saying 'God Hates You' and 'Thank God for IEDs' -- the improvised explosive devices responsible for killing many military personnel in Iraq." (Hannity noted during the segment that the group he and North were discussing was saying, "Thank God for IEDs.")
According to the AP, the protesters "claim that U.S. military deaths in Iraq are a sign of divine punishment for America's tolerance of homosexuals." The AP further noted, "During the 1990s, the church group also picketed the funerals of those who died of AIDS and gay murder victim Matthew Shepard."
One of the church's websites -- GodHatesFags.com -- contains a "frequently asked questions" page in which it addresses the question, "Why do you picket soldiers' funerals?" The website claims that fallen soldiers "voluntarily joined a fag-infested army to fight for a fag-run country now utterly and finally forsaken by God who Himself is fighting against that country." The website adds that "their funerals are the forum of choice for delivering WBC's message of choice."
As Media Matters has documented, during an August 2005 broadcast of his radio show, Hannity read excerpts of an article detailing a WBC protest at a soldier's funeral. Hannity then told his listeners: "I guess this is just another example of how the anti-war left supports our brave troops."
From the May 11 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes:
HANNITY: Joining us now to talk about this and to respond to the group that is protesting at the soldiers' funerals is the host of War Stories here on the Fox News Channel, Colonel North. I don't think there's anything more disgusting than showing up at the funerals of these brave heroes.
NORTH: It's outrageous. And God love the patriots, the VFW [Veterans of Foreign Wars], the American Legion, the Disabled American Veterans that are out there showing up at those funerals to honor those who died in the service of our country.
HANNITY: And they're also -- they're protecting the families --
NORTH: Yeah, from this outrage --
HANNITY: You know, because they're saying, you know, "Thank God for IEDs," "Thank God for dead soldiers."
NORTH: Interesting, I've not heard Howard Dean denounce these people for what they're doing.
HANNITY: Yeah, it is as grotesque a thing as I've ever seen.
[...]
COLMES: By the way, I just want to second what you both said about the funerals of soldiers. We all agree on that. It's not about Howard Dean and politicizing it.
NORTH: Well, then why doesn't Dean denounce it?
COLMES: It has nothing to do with Howard Dean.
NORTH: You just did. Why doesn't Dean do it?
COLMES: Because why give even credence to those idiots who protest at --
NORTH: Well, because they're out there doing it.
COLMES: It has nothing to do with -- you want to politicize it; I don't.
NORTH: Tell them to stop.
* Nexis search of "News, All (English, Full Text)" and "All available dates" for mehlman and (westboro baptist or (protest! w/25 funeral)).
Not once during this segment did Ollie North denounce the Janjaweed, who are responsible for mass slaughter in the Sudan. Why doesn't he speak out against them?
Not once during this segment did Ollie North denounce Osama bin Laden. Why is he going easy on him?
I've never heard Ollie North denounce the Mexicans' behavior in the Mexican-American War of 1846. It's interesting that Ollie cares so little about the Republic of Texas.
Ollie North has never come out publically against ghonorrea. Why is he so forgiving of STD's?
And so on...
why don't YOU tell them to stop? Huh? What is stopping you? Come on now...buck up! Do your duty! And North...lying to Congress is not a good way to live a life...but, apparently, a GREAT way to get on Fox!
Shouldn't they also have asked whether or not they'd heard Howard Dean say if he'd stopped beating his wife? And why have we never heard Dean publically state that he doesn't eat babies?
People on the left, as well as on the right have denounced Phelps and his family members for their despicable displays at the funerals of fallen soldiers. Leave it to Ollie to turn this into a right vs. left thing. If he wants to do that, I'm sure that the other beliefs these idiots hold are closer to the beliefs of the Religious Right then of any group on the left.
I'm glad to see Mr. North still has a paying job and isn't working for snow tires anymore. But he doesn't deserve to be in the spotlight, he deserves to be in jail.
but because of his Reagan background, he sits relaxed at FOX.
O.N. is the scum of the earth.
piece of journalism and opinion making and that when Clooney advocated actions against the disaster in Darfur: Clooney did not mention all the other areas of the world that are in danger. Here Dean does not mention all other problems in the US.
I disagree with the assertion made by Media Matters that North was implying the Phelps pukes were somehow liberals or Democratic supporters. I think what North was implying was Dean is anti-soldier or anti-military. In any event I'm fairly certain that if Dean was actually asked his opinion on the matter, he would denounce the Phelpses in the strongest possible terms.
Of course, as many here have pointed out, North managed to open himself and the rest of his right-wing thugs up to all kinds of speculation. I mean, when have you ever heard Bush denounce what was going on at these funerals?
In any event I'm fairly certain that if Dean was actually asked his opinion on the matter, he would denounce the Phelpses in the strongest possible terms.
You're fairly certain?
There's a doubt in your mind?
Fox wins.
Nuanced comments are hard to express on message boards. I used the term "fairly certain" in a way that suggested that I'm "fairly certain" the sun will set in the west -- hence the italicized "asked."
Faux will never win.
I understand your confusion, but in fact Hannity has a history of intentionally tring to conflate Phelps' right wing anti-gay group with the anti-war left.
[link to mediamatters.org]
“The protesters were headquartered in Kansas. They traveled across the country to demonstrate against a soldier." And you know something? I guess this is just another example of how the anti-war left supports our brave troops.”
The annoying part of this story is Colmes' ineffectual defense of Dean. Yeah, it has nothing to do with Dean as Colmes says, but he is either too poorly informed or cowardly to call Hannity on his intentional deceptions here.
back... say six months ago, I think. He gave him an entire hour of air time.
Colmes is by no means misinformed. He's just too timid to call North on his crap.
When I gave the ill-informed option, I was just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. Despite his covering for a pure propaganda outfit, Colmes sometimes gets it right, but I don't see him calling Hannity on an outright lie such as this one.
example of the difference between the left and the right in this country.
We haven't heard any progressive talk about "this is how far the right is willing to go" or "the right in America is so nuts that they..." or anything similar.
Yet it is a worn-out tactic of the right to take examples of extreme behavior and assign them to the left.
Whe abortion doctors are gunned down the right runs for cover. And when these anti-gay idiots exercise their constitutional rights of assembly and free speech the right refuses to accept responsibility.
Can you believe these people...
They take this disturbed extended family (please stop calling them "a Baptist Church"; just because they call themselves one, doesn't make it true enough to repeat)...
They take this sick, small group (who're mostly related to one another), and they try and somehow align the disturbed and infuriating thing they're doing in Kansas, align it with Democrats.
This is some kind of political strategy?
Who thought it up?
I don't know who's sicker: that small disturbed family group in Kansas, or that bunch at Fox News Channel.
As much as I hate to say this, it gives me heartburn actually, but Holmes has gotten a little respect from me on this whole gay protesting issue. Last week I watched a clip of him interviewing a woman from this church and he lit into her and now he gets on North for trying to politicize the issue with Dean. I'm sure he has an alternative motive, but until that festures out it is nice to see that there is still a human somewhere in him
disgraced his uniform & subverted the Constituion when he repeatedly LIED TO CONGRESS about his & Reagan's illeagal support to the CONTRA terrorists in the 80's. Where does he get the stones to question anybody else's patriotism? If it wasn't for Faux News he would have faded into slimey obscurity that he so deeply earned.
F 'em!
"Ollie North disgraced his uniform & subverted the Constitution when he repeatedly LIED TO CONGRESS about his & Reagan's illegal support to the CONTRA terrorists in the 80's."
-----
Actually, it wasn't his uniform. He had left the Marines at the time of the hearings, and did not have the right to wear the full dress uniform to the hearings. He did disgrace the uniform, but it wasn't his uniform.
If you want to read what a real American Hero,Col. David Hackworth, said about Ollie go to: airborne-rangers.com/rangers/wannabees/ollienorth.html This should put in perspective what a ballwashers North is!
Great article by the real deal. Ollie sold out the constitution for a home security system. I didn't always agree with Hackworth but always found his writings and commentaries informative and from the heart. He'll be missed.
I couldn't get the link to work, but here is a link to the article that should work.
[link to www.airborne-ranger.com]
And I don't know if it is genuine. There are a lot of spelling, grammatical, and syntax mistakes in it. If it was copied from the Playboy article, I would have to see the original to make sure the article actually appeared. Their editors are very good, and would not let the errors on the website get into publication.
There may have been an article like the one on the website published, but I'm skeptical about it.
But I think the article is genuine. I've been able to track different references and passages from the article and the passages read the same. I think the problem might have been with the transcription, not with the content. It does read like Col. Hackworth spoke.
That's the way Hack talked,Playboy didn't clean it up ,just reported what the interviewer heard Hack say,unlike the rightwing who has a fit if Bush is shown without his halo!
Fred Phelps is such an evil lunatic, that I cannot imagine any relatively mainstream political figure not being appalled by the guy and by his actions. We should all be operating under that assumption and if some politician (Democrat or Republican) has not condemned Phelps we should assume it is only because it has not come up or because that politician does not want to give Phelps the publicity Phelps craves. This is a classic case of the media trying to CREATE an issue for ratings. Not good.
But it's a sleazy attempt by a sleazy excuse for a man (Oliver North) to try to imply that Howard Dean supports these whacked out lunatics like Phelps. No reasonable person on the right or left would ever think that a reasonable person from the opposition supports this type of behavior.
Read up on Phelps. Unfortunately, he is registered as, and has run (unsuccessfully) for office as, a Democrat. Ow ow ow ow ow. Now, he's even less of an example of a Dem to emulate than say, George Wallace, but he is a Democrat. And that's the response should they ever seize on that. "George Wallace was a Democrat, too, and no one suggests we should model ourselves after him...." Just sayin'. Please do not smite me.