David Broder on candidates' personal lives: Now OK with public "choking on a surfeit of smut"
SUMMARY: In a column titled "The Shadow of a Marriage," The Washington Post's David Broder discussed press interest in the personal lives of Bill and Hillary Clinton, asserting that, should she run for president, the Clintons' marriage will be a "hot topic" and stating that a recent New York Times article on the same topic was "anything but unsympathetic" to the Clintons. But Broder's interest in the intimate details of the Clintons' personal relationship is inconsistent with his own previous writing, in which he has argued that journalists focus too much on candidates' personal lives and that, as a result, the "public is choking on a surfeit of smut."
In his May 25 column titled "The Shadow of a Marriage," Washington Post columnist David Broder devoted his column to press interest in the personal lives of Bill and Hillary Rodham Clinton, asserting that, should she run for president, the Clintons' marriage will be a "hot topic" and stating that a recent New York Times article on the same topic was "anything but unsympathetic" to the Clintons because it "touched only lightly" on tabloid gossip on "the former president's friendship with Canadian politician Belinda Stronach." But Broder's interest in the intimate details of the Clintons' personal relationship is inconsistent with his own previous writing, in which he has argued that journalists focus too much on candidates' personal lives and that, as a result, the "public is choking on a surfeit of smut."
Broder's May 25 column followed Patrick Healy's May 23 New York Times article about the state of the Clinton's marriage. Healy conducted interviews with "some 50 people" for the article, in which he detailed the frequency with which the Clintons spend time together and revived a baseless tabloid rumor that the former president has or had a relationship with Canadian politician Belinda Stronach. As Media Matters for America has detailed, other news outlets pounced on the story. Fox & Friends host Steve Doocy noted "how little time they [the Clintons] actually spend together"; his co-host Brian Kilmeade noted the Stronach rumor and cited concerns that the former president could "derail" Sen. Clinton's political ambitions. Fox News DaySide host Mike Jerrick wondered if the Clintons are "bedfellows"; CNN's Wolf Blitzer, MSNBC's Chris Matthews, NBC's Norah O'Donnell, and others also leapt at the chance to discuss the Clintons' marriage yet again.
The Post's David Broder might have seemed to some an unlikely participant in the leering examination of the Clintons' personal lives. His Washington Post Writers Group biography notes that he "has been called 'the high priest of political journalism,' by author Timothy Crouse, 'the unchallenged "dean" of what many political reporters like to think is their "priesthood,"' by U.S. News, and 'probably the most respected and influential political journalist in the country,' by columnist Richard Reeves. Esquire said Broder 'has few challengers as the most influential political journalist in the country.' " Broder has previously used his perch atop the media food chain to argue against the kind of treatment given to the Clintons' marriage this week, writing on January 28, 1998: "the press ought to exercise some restraint and try harder to put these matters [candidates' personal lives] in perspective. The public is choking on a surfeit of smut."
Not so this time. In "The Shadow of a Marriage," Broder wrote:
The two sides of Hillary Rodham Clinton -- the opposites that make her potential presidential candidacy such a gamble -- came into sharp focus Tuesday morning at the National Press Club.
For the better part of an hour, the senator from New York held forth in a disquisition on energy policy that was as overwhelming in its detail as it was ambitious in its reach.
But the buzz in the room was not about her speech -- or her striking appearance in a lemon-yellow pantsuit -- but about the lengthy analysis of the state of her marriage to Bill Clinton that was on the front page of that morning's New York Times.
The article, by Patrick Healy, was anything but unsympathetic. It touched only lightly on the former president's friendship with Canadian politician Belinda Stronach. It documented that despite their busy separate schedules, the Clintons had managed to spend two-thirds of their weekends together during the past 18 months.
[...]
But for all the delicacy of the treatment, the very fact that the Times had sent a reporter out to interview 50 people about the state of the Clintons' marriage and placed the story on the top of Page One was a clear signal -- if any was needed -- that the drama of the Clintons' personal life would be a hot topic if she runs for president.
Broder's assertion that "the drama of the Clintons' personal life would be a hot topic if she runs for president" seems to ignore the probability that, if it is indeed a "hot topic," it is precisely because David Broder and his colleagues have decided make it one. Rather than focusing on the substance of Clinton's speech, Broder and his colleagues focus on "her striking appearance in a lemon-yellow pantsuit" and the "state of the Clintons' marriage" -- then justify doing so by calling it a "hot topic."
Broder's apparent appetite for salacious details about the Clintons' personal lives is evident in his suggestion that Healy could have explored "the former president's friendship with Canadian politician Belinda Stronach" in greater detail -- never mind that there has never been any indication that there is anything noteworthy about the friendship. After noting that Senator Clinton's energy speech was followed by three questions about energy policy and one about the Iraq war, Broder seemed to lament the fact that "the elephant in the room" -- the Clintons' marriage -- went unmentioned.
The following is a look back at what David Broder, "high priest of political journalism," has previously written about the media's focus on personal lives.
- "What We Need to Know," The Washington Post, December 15, 1999:
In the past week, John McCain and Bill Bradley have been pushed into revealing parts of their medical history in order to deal with adverse developments in their campaigns for the Republican and Democratic presidential nominations. The two friends, who will join hands in New Hampshire tomorrow to promote campaign finance reform, also have a lesson to teach on the tricky question of privacy in presidential politics.
In the public forums and roundtables I've attended this year, nothing seems to bother people more about today's journalism than the blurring of lines between the public records of candidates and their private lives.
Such a concern is to be expected after the horrendous experience families had in being subjected to the grossest details of President Clinton's liaisons with Monica Lewinsky. Voters clearly are determined to buy themselves an insurance policy against that kind of embarrassment when they choose a new tenant for the Oval Office next year.
But the aftereffects of the Clinton scandal are much broader. Time and again, on college campuses and at town halls, reporters are being asked to justify what the questioners call "invasions of privacy" and to weigh the impact of such "trespasses" on the willingness of able men and women to offer themselves as candidates.
The implicit--and occasionally explicit--question is: "Why would anyone run for high office, knowing that you people (the press) will rummage through everything in their backgrounds and expose every human weakness you can find?"
It is certainly the case that reporters at times have pushed their examinations of candidates' personal histories beyond decent limits. I wrote months ago, when Texas Gov. George W. Bush was being subjected to a blitz of questions about his possible use of cocaine in earlier years, that absent any evidence of drug abuse, such rumor-based interrogation was "harassment."
I still believe that. And I also believe that other generic "have you ever?"-type questions should be out of bounds. They are lazy shortcuts, not the serious reporting that needs to be done on presidential candidates' formative experiences and professional careers. Too often, they have no purpose other than providing a quick tabloid headline or satisfying someone's prurient curiosity.
[...]
On the available evidence, neither McCain nor Bradley has a medical problem that should cause any concern. But the lesson of their experiences for other candidates is clear: Disclose your medical records early. And then fight like hell to keep private those other aspects of your life that are nobody else's business.
- "A Little Perspective, Please; 'The question is: How illuminating of character is knowledge of sexual behavior?'" The Washington Post, January 27, 1998:
Whether the Monica Lewinsky affair ends in vindication for President Clinton, resignation or something in between, the press and the people of this country need to ask themselves some questions. Once the matter is settled, we need to think about the really murky issue of when the private sexual behavior of presidents and presidential aspirants deserves to be a matter for public scrutiny.
[...]
[T]common thread to all these scandals is sex, and that subject has appeared with growing frequency in recent presidential campaigns. Gary Hart was driven from the race by exposure of his dalliance. George Bush's son wrote a letter to the editor denying charges that his father had an extramarital affair. Even Pat Robertson was confronted with questions about premarital sex.
If the calls and comments I have received the past week are any guide, many in the public are saying "enough is enough." Geneva Overholser, The Post's ombudsman, who has more contact with readers, has been inundated with the same message.
Maybe, when this is over, we need to ask ourselves if "the French solution" of ignoring bedroom behavior has some merit, if reporters and politicians ought to adopt a variant of the military's policy of "don't ask, don't tell."
[...]
Under the circumstances, journalistic efforts to explore presidential character have become a necessity. The question is: How illuminating of character is knowledge of sexual behavior?
[...]
Presidential character clearly involves more than sexual purity. By probing so persistently into that one aspect of their lives, the press may force candidates to proclaim a degree of virtue which few in their profession -- or ours -- sustain. When those claims are debunked, their overall credibility suffers, and cynicism grows.
Perhaps a cadre of candidates of impeccable morals awaits. Until then, the press ought to exercise some restraint and try harder to put these matters in perspective. The public is choking on a surfeit of smut.
- "Odd Way To Choose a President," The Washington Post, January 28, 1992:
When the Democrats set the calendar for their 1992 presidential nomination contest, they thought the process would begin with the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary. They hadn't planned on the Super Bowl Sunday "60 Minutes" showdown between the Star supermarket tabloid and Bill and Hillary Clinton preempting the whole procedure.
Even by the bizarre standards of late 20th century American politics, this is an unbelievably weird way to choose a potential president of a nation with the world's largest nuclear stockpile, its biggest but badly spluttering economy and most serious international responsibilities.
Millions of people, most of them besotted by hours of beer, pizza, party snacks and John Madden trap-play diagrams, watched as the loving young couple from Little Rock tried to convince CBS's Steve Kroft that the checkout-stand tabloid's story of Clinton's alleged 12-year extramarital romance was just an example of checkbook journalism run amok.
Is this any way to choose a president? No. Is it responsible journalism? No. Then what the devil is it?
[...]
It's equally unfair, as Clinton points out, to hold up his past conduct to microscopic scrutiny because he is still in his marriage, while divorced politicians and unmarried ones (such as Bob Kerrey and Jerry Brown) are given broad leeway when it comes to the details of their past lives. Surely those issues -- if any -- are of more import to the family members of these candidates than to the public at large.
Gary Hart was different. The conduct that drove him from the race in 1987 was current, it was flagrant, it violated the promises he had made to his closest political associates -- and it suggested a reckless imprudence and disregard of consequences that clearly did raise questions about his fitness for the presidency.
When the press is confronted by such behavior in a presidential candidate, it has no choice but to report it. But the press has no such obligation to go rummaging in the closets of White House contenders for any past indiscretions that may fall out. As the Clinton case and others show, it is terribly difficult to resolve the issues of motivation, evidence and conflicting recollection that attend such past relationships -- and politicians are easily victimized by people seeking to settle old scores.
More important, the ransacking of personal histories diverts journalism from what is far more important -- the examination of past performance in public office and the scrutiny of current policy positions.
It's a whole lot more useful to voters to understand why Bill Clinton has won the trust and admiration of people in both parties over his 20 years in politics than to know the details of his private life. And it is much more important to test how he can possibly reconcile his promise of new policies with his headlong wooing of the old power-brokers and interest groups of the Democratic Party than to know the names of his old girlfriends.
Enough is enough.
- "The Press is on Shaky Ground," The Washington Post, November 15, 1987:
A similar cocoon of protectiveness was extended to the candidates, whose private foibles also went largely unreported. It was a cozy, comfortable arrangement all around, but it is gone now, and it is not likely to return.
Today, we have moved to the other extreme. Political reporters swoop down, reflexively, on any possibility of moral dereliction and ask presidential candidates at random whether they ever committed the ''sin of the week.'' Did you ever womanize? Did you ever plagiarize? Did you ever inhale an illegal substance?
The interrogation reflex has reached the point that whenever a particular moral transgression hits the news, as marijuana smoking did recently in the aborted Supreme Court nomination of Judge Douglas Ginsburg, politicians rush forward to confess their own record in that regard. They fear that if the information is not volunteered, but has to be wormed out of them, the press and public will judge them even more harshly.
Thus, the extraordinary spectacle last week of the grandfatherly, patrician, 68-year-old chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Claiborne Pell of Rhode Island, affirming that years and years ago he had puffed on a marijuana joint and had not enjoyed the experience.
You have to wonder what this disclosure will add to the store of knowledge of Rhode Island voters or of the senators and State Department officials who deal with Pell every day. It's surprising and mildly titillating information, but that is a marginal justification for the breach of Pell's privacy.
For long years, we in the press accepted the general notion that the private lives of public officials were not our concern. Increasingly, we have erased that line, arguing that some private matters raise important questions about the individual's fitness for public responsibility. But we know we are on shaky ground.
[...]
[R]reporters have to be aware that the cumulative effect of all these stories is to deepen public cynicism about both politics and the press. Voters increasingly believe that reporters will not rest until we have pursued the real or imagined scandal in the private life of everyone holding or seeking high office.
Political journalism is not a way of satisfying the random curiosity or the voyeuristic inclinations of reporters or readers. It has to advance the dialogue on public issues or aid voters in fulfilling their responsibilities as citizens, including their judgments of the capacities and character of would-be presidents.
By that standard, the recent round of stories on past pot smoking by presidential candidates was miles off base. It's time to slow down and take another look at what we're doing, before more damage is done to the reputations of candidates and the credibility of the press.
Broder's admonishments about excessive focus on personal relationships have not been limited to his colleagues in the media. On August 1, 2000, he wrote: "The Republican Party has this hang-up about sex. Every time it tries to act like a modern, 21st century institution it stumbles over its Victorian morality and ends up looking absurd."















are valid targets as well. Right David?
and his teenage (at best) hookers who 'just happen' to knock on his door to have underage sex with him...
sadly, this is the way it is today. people are much more interested and titillated in politician's and celebrity's private lives than in any public achievements or actions anymore. the 24 hour news cycles "break" news on nearly anything these days, and filling up airwaves with what the public obviously craves is their stock and trade. what they do or who they sleep with in the privacy of their own lives is their business. but if you are contemplating a political career and whine about this stuff later, it goes with the territory. unfortunately, it drives people who want to contribute and make a difference away. who needs it, they probably say.
Out of 14 paragraphs in Broder's column ONLY 4 made ANY mention of the Clinton's marriage and the NY Times piece.
And quite frankly Broder did NOT sound to me like he was salivating for more SMUT. He was simply touching on the topic BECAUSE it has been in the news.
And his mentioning that it is a "hot topic" was appropriate because for better or worse it apparently is.
MMFA wrote:
**Broder's apparent appetite for salacious details about the Clintons' personal lives is evident in his suggestion that Healy could have explored "the former president's friendship with Canadian politician Belinda Stronach" in greater detail**
Where in Broder's column are they FINDING this? Broeder SIMPLY wrote:
**The article, by Patrick Healy, was anything but unsympathetic. It touched only lightly on the former president's friendship with Canadian politician Belinda Stronach.**
Sorry BUT that hardly sounds like a man SALIVATING....
>>And his mentioning that it is a "hot topic" was appropriate because for better or worse it apparently is.
I just wrote in response to another thread on this same site something to the affect that all apologists for disinformation use the same line, "for better or worse." Let's allow journalist to repeat the comparsisons of Bush to Hitler (a completley useless comparison) because "for better or worse, many of the blogs believe that." Let's allow our news to become infotainment because "for better or worse" that is what people are tuned into. Let's not hold students to high expectations because for "better or worse," we live in an anti-intellectual culture.
Broder should not mention the personal lives at all. By doing so, he merely legitimizes the politics of personality.
Your post makes no sense. So NOW you don't want journalists to be ALLOWED to mention what is being said/written about political figures?
Yeah ok whatever... Trying to FOLLOW your logic was a joke...Apparently your pants aren't the ONLY thing that's "funny" about YOU. :-O
P.S. Your EXAMPLES were lousy comparisons to THIS situation.
Now you are sounding like Tommy except you are using all caps. I'm not very impressed.
How exactly is pointing out that a journalist shouldn't pass along gossip the same as censorship? Pleae explain this.
See my excerpt from my post below. Yes, Broder is passing along gossip.
>>Your EXAMPLES were lousy comparisons to THIS situation.
I don't think so at all. Every apologist on this board (and in the press) has used the same excuse for bad reporting: but the public is talking about it! I remember one of the major anchors from the network news stating that he didn't have any anti-war voices on once the Iraq war started because the generals were running the show.
Broder wrote a column about Hillary Clinton's appearance at the National Press Club...he made a FEW passing REFERENCES to the ARTICLE in the NY Times. What's YOUR problem with THIS???? It's NEWS.
Broder discussed *press interest* in the personal lives of Bill and Hillary Clinton. What is YOUR problem with that? Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting no one should be ALLOWED to mention this at all?
FMP's I'm heading home...YOU may continue this silly conversation alone.
>>Broder wrote a column about Hillary Clinton's appearance at the National Press Club...he made a FEW passing REFERENCES to the ARTICLE in the NY Times. What's YOUR problem with THIS???? It's NEWS.
To use your silly phrase "Huh?" The debate is about the sex life of Bill and Hillary. Now you change it to what Hillary was wearing!
And by the way, yes, Broder was doing incredibly stupid lazy reporting, the type that has made our discourse into a joke, the kind that you think is okay because "for better or worse" everyone is talking about. It wasn't just that Broder talked about what Hillary wore, but that he dismissed the content of her speech. Everyone was talking about what she wore, the incredible superficial pundit remarks.
And one more point. You really think what Hillary was wearing is news?
This superficiality was exactly what drove the 2000 campaign. How many times did the pundits deride Gore's use of earth tones, colors he choose because of advice from Naomi Wolf? (She denies it, and there is not proof, but so what when our silly press corps wants to make fun and games out of politics?)
I would still like to know why you think I am for censorship. You haven't answered that question. Do you always post such flippantly false remarks? It strikes me that you didn't want to answer the criticism of Broder, so you just lashed out and cried censorship.
Then you end the exchange with
>>YOU may continue this silly conversation alone.
Ha ha ha! What a jester is Jeter! If you really thought the conversation was silly, why did you engage in it? Why did you throw out sloppy statments about censorship? Why the dumbassmanpants insult?
"The debate is about the sex life of Bill and Hillary. Now you change it to what Hillary was wearing!"...by funnypantsman
=====
Say what? Kindly tell me how I did THAT????
The ONLY thing I can figure is I wrote:
**he made a FEW passing REFERENCES to the ARTICLE in the NY Times.**
And YOU thought I meant *ARTICLE* OF CLOTHING???
"TO THE ARTICLE" means Newspaper article. I'm NOT sure how you could have MISUNDERSTOOD that...
----------------------------------------------------
"Do you always post such flippantly false remarks? Why the dumbassmanpants insult?"...by funnypantsman
=====
Well FMP's almost every post you've ever left me here at MMFA begins : "that was a dumb post jeter" or something along those lines. Is THAT really necessary? You don't like to be treated with disrespect here...well neither do I. You don't agree with my post--then just say so--WITHOUT the "dumb" remark. I rarely resort to name-calling here--UNLESS provoked.
So one more time. Broder wrote a column about Hillary. He made a FEW references to THE NY TIMES ARTICLE (don't want you to get confused again). Why this is freaking you out, I'm NOT sure.
And I'd love to address your point, IF I could figure out what it is.
YOU seem to be up in arms about journalists being able to cover The Clintons [warts & all]---I don't go in for the tabloid stuff myself...BUT in Broder's case he wasn't gossiping or passing on dirt. AND he wasn't-- as MMFA wrote, showing an "appetite for salacious details about the Clintons' personal lives" That's pure B.S. on their part. You seem to want a lid put on ANY mention of the Clinton marriage...that's what I meant by "CENSORSHIP".
Keep ONE other thing in mind here--It was Bill Clinton's behavior that has caused speculation about his and Hillary's marriage in the FIRST place. I liked Clinton, I thought he was a good President, BUT he screwed up...and he really can't BLAME the press for that.
In closing, your snippy remarks about MY using "CAPS" to emphasize" my points was uncalled for. FYI, others here use CAPS also...including Tex. Oh but wait Tex is a Dem/Lib. Bet you'd NEVER criticize him would you? Bet YOU can read his posts with clarity...Mmmmmm? Yeah that's what I figured pants man. You're pretty transparent ...and wicked funny.
Now I'm gonna go pour myself a cup of coffee and retreat to my recliner and watch 'That 70's Show'
See ya around.
I thought I was debating alone because you just had had enough of me. It was such a funny comment! I could be debatting alone--and then Jeter ruins his own joke becaue he just has to get the last word in!
Really, you don't think the debate was about sex? Did you even read the MMFA post? Here is what the MMFA piece said:
Yes, it is right there. Unless you were arguing about some other post, I don't how you can claim the debate wasn't about their sex life, especially since the title referes to "smut."
Do you think your clever world play on article and article of clothing really convinces anyone?
>>So one more time. Broder wrote a column about Hillary. He made a FEW references to THE NY TIMES ARTICLE (don't want you to get confused again). Why this is freaking you out, I'm NOT sure.
Here come the insults. Oh yes, one more time. Please. How many times has some poster tried to use this verbal bullying technique. Of course, Jeter. I'm too slow so please pare your argument down.
No, it's not freaking me out. And no, it wasn't a passing reference. You deliberately mislead here. Here is what Broder said:
Broder specifically emphasized that no one could care about the points she was making because everyone was interested in the NY Times article, which talks about Clinton's personal life. No, that's not a passing reference. A passing reference would have sounded like "Clinton, wearing a yellow pant suit, talked about energy..."
>>And I'd love to address your point, IF I could figure out what it is.
Right. You don't know what it is yet here you are debating it. This is just another subtle insult, as if to say "well, FMP, you are so confused..."
>>You seem to want a lid put on ANY mention of the Clinton marriage...that's what I meant by "CENSORSHIP".
Right, as if censorship is defined that way. I specifically wrote "Broder should not mention the personal lives at all. By doing so, he merely legitimizes the politics of personality." That is my opinion. Censorship means stopping peoples' right to say something, by throwing them in jail, for example. This is just sloppy on your part--or do you really believe that criticizing a journalist's article amounts to what goes on in N. Korea? In that case, you believe all of MMFA believes in censorship.
>>as MMFA wrote, showing an "appetite for salacious details about the Clintons' personal lives" That's pure B.S. on their part.
No, and you haven't shown it. Re-read the way Broder framed the paragraph: no one was listening to the details of what Clinton said because of the NY Times article, which was about the sex life of Bill and Hillary. That is certainly showing an appetitie.
>>Keep ONE other thing in mind here--It was Bill Clinton's behavior that has caused speculation about his and Hillary's marriage in the FIRST place. I liked Clinton, I thought he was a good President, BUT he screwed up...and he really can't BLAME the press for that.
Now this is humorous. Where did FMP get the idea that Broder was talking about sex? That was totally crazy, you told me. And yet, here you are conceding that such speculation is going on. And this is what I mean about dumb. The blow job was in the 90's. Are you now saying we are going to be subject to another stupid capaign based on sex because of something that happend over 6 years ago? That is why MMFA is objecting. And I suspect you know it by your comment. It is the Clinton's fault, you write. They are fair game to speculation--though earlier in your post you just can't imagine why I thought the debate was about sex!
FMP I'm gonna take a page out of YOUR book and say: Your post was the dumbest one I've ever read here.
You either have a reading comprehension problem, are on drugs, are NEW in this country and don't understand English very well, OR are just plain pig-headed.
Once again YOU failed to address every point I made and have rambled on (incoherently) about who the f#ck knows what.
WHAT is it you don't get? Broder commented on the NY TIMES article. Yes the [NY Times] article FOCUSED on the Clinton's marriage. Of course SEX was part of it. Clinton has a HISTORY of sexual peccadilloes throughout his marriage... I NEVER said otherwise. Talk about TRYING to put words in someone's mouth. How about YOU provide the QUOTE where I actually SAY this isn't about sex? Another words --put up or shut up.
BTW--The Clinton's marital problems did NOT begin with Monica.
The Clintons are Public Figures and EVERY aspect of their lives can and will be discussed (whether YOU approve or not)
Broder merely wrote a column about Hillary and INCLUDED the "hot topic" of the NY TIMES ARTICLE. Nothing NEFARIOUS about it. He's a journalist, THIS is what journalists do. He did NOT endorse what was being said, OR salivate for more. He merely REPORTED it. AND most of his column wasn't even about the Clinton marriage. That he even mentions it at all has you blubbering like a child.
This has apparently left you in a snit (how dare anyone comment on this subject) Sorry FMP that sounds like you'd PREFER censorship. Call it anything you'd like BUT that's what it amounts to.
Censorship: Prevention of disturbing or painful thoughts or feelings from reaching consciousness except in a disguised form.; deleting parts of publications or correspondence; banning or deleting any information of value to the enemy.
Should YOU decide to reply to this post, I'll make sure I find a translator to decipher it for me. One that understands gibberish.
>>You either have a reading comprehension problem, are on drugs, are NEW in this country and don't understand English very well, OR are just plain pig-headed.
Here come the insults. This is so clever! When you want to engage in a debate with someone, pretend he can't read.
>>How about YOU provide the QUOTE where I actually SAY this isn't about sex? Another words --put up or shut up.
It's right there in the thread. I accused you of changing the subject from sex to what Hillary was wearing, and you responded:
"Say what? Kindly tell me how I did THAT????"
>>Broder merely wrote a column about Hillary and INCLUDED the "hot topic" of the NY TIMES ARTICLE. Nothing NEFARIOUS about it. He's a journalist, THIS is what journalists do.
No. Good journalists don't traffic in gossip. Just becaue the NY Times wrote an article about it doesn't mean he has to pass along the gossip. He was acting like a gosspip monger.
>>That he even mentions it at all has you blubbering like a child.
Really? Who is sounding irrational here? Who is getting nastier and nastier?
>>Sorry FMP that sounds like you'd PREFER censorship. Call it anything you'd like BUT that's what it amounts to.
No, it doesn't. If you think my stating that Broder shouldn't pass along gossip amounts to censorship, then you really don't understand what censorship is. I think you do but you painted yourself in a corner and just can't admit you were sloppy in your post.
>>Censorship: Prevention of disturbing or painful thoughts or feelings from reaching consciousness except in a disguised form.; deleting parts of publications or correspondence; banning or deleting any information of value to the enemy.
First, where did you get this definition? Second, none of it even vaguely describes what I do. The first part of your definition about "disturbing or painful thoughts" has to do with physcological censorship. That is certainly not the case here. As for the second part, I have not banned or deleted any information that Broder published.
As I pointed out before, if you think I am for censorship, then you would logically have to believe MMFA is for the same. I think certain things should not be printed. That is an opinion. I am in no way advocating any punishment for those who do. Nor am I stating that any law should be passed prohibiting any type of free speach. You've known that all along.
>>Should YOU decide to reply to this post, I'll make sure I find a translator to decipher it for me. One that understands gibberish.
Once again, Jeter, insulting is not the same as debating.
Regarding Jeter's wit, I can't let this quote pass. I just finished re-reading the Odyssey, and just before Odyssus kills the suitor who threw the hoof at Odyssus, Odyssus says:
You arrogant, joking bastard! Clown, will you, like a fool, and parade your wit? Leave jesting to the gods, who do it better!
(Sorry if this quote is pretentious, but I really like it.)
You who appear to be flunking remedial reading? Yeah right.
Oh wait I BET you read the Cliff Notes. GOOD choice, they EXPLAIN everything in DETAIL. You obviously need that.
Now funnyboypants I'll let YOU get in the LAST WORD. Make it good cause I doubt our paths will cross again. Oh you can reply to my posts anytime you want of course, BUT I prefer to debate/discuss issues/topics with MATURE INTELLIGENT people....and
I don't suffer fools gladly (there I provided YOU one of MY favorite quotes)
P.S. If you don't know what it means, ask a grownup....do NOT try to interpret it yourself. That's a skill you haven't quite mastered. BUT do take it personally when you figure it out.
Jeter, if this has really been you on this thread, please give it a rest. Your arguments have been weak, and you've been getting more and more nasty as the time goes on. These are indicative of a lost cause, and it's unworthy of you to keep fighting it.
You've earned a lot of respect on this board with your commentary in the past. Please don't erode it with raving of this sort.
Um thanks political_left-religious_right for the compliment...I think. Though it was a bit backhanded ;-)
I suggest YOU critique funnyman's posts HERE and on the Imus thread BEFORE you judge me too harshly.
Then ASK yourself, was it the TOPIC that got me riled up...or the POSTER?
SOMETIMES certain posters get under my skin.
BTW, I think I was correct in MY opinions on THIS topic.
But hey, we can disagree politely :-)
>>YOU just finished reading the Odyssey?
Wow, Jeter. That was so mature and intelligent! As other posters have pointed out, you have become nasier and nastier and more defensive.
Yes, I did just finish re-reading *The Odyssey.* Imagine that! In case you want to know, it was the Fitzgerald translation. I can give you lots of details about the meter and the strenghts and weaknesses of it if you want.
Oh, before that I finished *Faust* in German which I read every year. Perhaps because I read so widely and have and advanced degree in English I find if funny when you criticize my reading level.
But if that's the best you can do, all the power to you.
For the record, insulting people does not amount to debate.
I suspect you know I am right and that accounts for your angry tone.
You're 'conversation' with funnymanpants disintegrated... but, for what it's worth, I do support his statement that the personal lives should not be commented on at all.
That's not censorship (in my mind)... the info is irrelevant. This baiting of readers with such tripe is tantamount to tabloid 'news' about celebrities/stars... People stop and stare, then move on with their own pathetic lives. But wait -- why are our lives pathetic?? Oh yeah, political policy... let's talk about that... That would be nice, wouldn't it. Just a thought.
You are right, Jeter2. From what MMFA wrote above, you would not know that Broder did in fact report on the major elements of Hillary's energy speech. And nowhere did he ever endorse the idea that we or the media should focus on the sex lives of politicians.
I can't fault him for the "striking yellow pants-suit" line either. That's just the kind of detail -- or color, if you will -- that all writers are taught to include. Besides there is even a political angle to that, too. Did not Corazon Aquino adopt yellow as the symbolic color of her candidacy/revolution, which resulted (I believe) in her becoming the Philippines' first female president?
only mentioned Mary Cheny AFTER Daddy Dick and the moderator brought her up...
Media Matters, you're the greatest!!!
It keeps me amused!
Jeter makes a good point. Broder is not pandering in this instance. MMFA makes much to do about nothing.
I went back and read both Broder's and Healy's columns. Neither one is salacious or negative toward the Clintons. If anything Healy paints a sympathetic picture regarding Bill and Hill and why they are sometimes apart.
It seemed to me that this pre-emptive article by Healy was actually heading off the tabloid types by explaining what many wonder regarding their relationship.
I'm no fan of either Bill or Hill but I feel now that I understand better why they feel it is better in many instances for Bill not to be at the same function with Hill. It makes sense to me that he can easily overshadow her... and they obviously don't want him to do that as she makes her run at the presidency.
---"Healy paints a sympathetic picture regarding Bill and Hill"---
"[The Clintons] also tried to leave behind the bad blood of the scandal caused by Mr. Clinton's involvement with Monica S. Lewinsky, a White House intern."
Healy provides a sympathetically convenient hyperlink to a sympathetic NY Times archive chock-full of sympathetic "saucy" stories about Bill and Monica, the "White House intern" (as if nobody remembers who she was), for the enjoyment of the non-fans of Bill and Hillary.
At one time he says what he believes SHOULD be. At another time he says what he believes WILL.
There is no inconsistency here.
This is like cons saying that libs want the U.S. to fail in Iraq because we bring up the myriad of problems in Iraq.
... how about doing so for comments like these:
"But the main point is this: If the Democrats can't form a competitive ticket by combining two of these three [Kerry, Clark, and Edwards], then they're not smart enough to deserve the White House." [From "The Democrats Sharpen the Focus," Feb. 5, 2004, by David Broder]
But then, when Kerry took his advice and selected Edwards, Broder in effect faulted Kerry for choosing politics over substance.
----BRODER: "Other than that, the elephant in the room went unmentioned."----
The elephant in the room. Let's see.... Iraq? No? Ok, then it must be illegal domestic survelleillance? Plamegate? The resignations and investigations of key CIA figures? The enormous deficit? Soaring gas and health care costs? Guantanamo? The rebuilding, or lack thereof, of New Orleans??
Nope. As it turns out, according to "dean" Broder, it's Bill and Hillary Clinton's marriage and sex lives.
I sent this article to the WaPo but we should also think about reaching others in the media since so many of them seem so eager to talk about the Clintons.
FAIR has a nice contact list:
[link to www.fair.org]
[link to dailyhowler.com]
Let's not forget Broder's comments on Iraq in an interview in November '05 with Tim Russert:
So, Broder's conception of the public interest demands constant revelations regarding the intimate details of the Clinton's marriage while "moving past" the "largely irrelevant" reasons for going to war.
h/t to Eschaton
...............because hillary clinton, a serious politician, gave a serious, intelligent speech, about a serious issue that affects all americans. how dare she bore him!
mr. broder exemplifies the attitude of today's press corps: don't bother me with substance, just point me towards the shrimp & dip!
sen. clinton gave a speech dealing with a topic that is currently, and will always, affect us all, in the wallet, and all david broder can talk about is...........................the clinton's sex life. he even gratituously mentions a female canadian politician, among a dozen other people, who had dinner with mr. clinton the night before. a cheap innuendo, with no basis in fact, but dammit, it felt good!
mr. broder and ms. dowd, along with frank rich and others, would do us all a favor by changing careers, to something useful, like plumbing.
>>mr. broder exemplifies the attitude of today's press corps: don't bother me with substance, just point me towards the shrimp & dip!
Yes, exactly! Excellent post. And this is how the campagin in 2007 will be covered. The press will act incredibly lazy and not look at the substance. If Hillary runs, bet on it that her wardrobe and her lack of feminity or her sex life with Bill will be endlessly talked about. And when MMFA and serious citizens complain, expect the right-wing apologists to say "But the reporter has to report it because everyone is talking about it!"
If Gore runs, there will be endless talk about how boring he is and how phony. And if McCain runs, the buzz will be what a straight shooter he is, despite his record.
Whats an aging bald guy; who hasn't gotten any for YEARS to do? Obsess about Clintons penis.
Broder is right -- if Hillary runs in '08, her life with Bill, and Bill's life, will be very hot topics in the Right wing camp. We'll see an unending procession of fat girls wearing thongs, so get used to it.
There's very little sense in using spin tactics to try to discredit a journalist who mentions facts that we don't particularly like to talk about -- let's leave that and other basic dishonesties in the Far Right's playbook.
MMFA isn't spinning. The sex life will be talked about not because of the right-wingers. It will be talked about because of the so-called lazy liberals like Broder and Maureen Dowd. They attacked Gore in 2000. See the dailyhowler.com for the gruesome details.
NOW YOU SEE THE KEY WORD FOR THE RIGHT-WING MEDIA IS CLINTON. THIS SAME RIGHT-WING MEDIA WHO HAVE BLOOD ON THERE HANDS WITH THIS WHITEHOUSE BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT DO THERE JOB BECAUSE THEY WERE IN BED WITH THIS WHITE HOUSE BEFORE WE WENT TO WAR,WILL NOW GO OUT AND DO THERE JOB TO GET DIRT ON THE CLINTONS ABOUT SEX.
These points are worth taking another look at:
As the country's "best" (and often disregarded because republicans have managed to bastardize it) newspaper focuses the top of its front page on the health of the Clinton's marriage, given that it is at least as equally important, if not more so, than, say, the:
Health of the United States Constitution:
To wit:
Or, say, free and open democracy itself:To wit:
Yet relative to the top of page one barrage on the Clinton's marriage, how has the media focused on such obscure issues as "[little] poses a greater and more direct danger to our freedoms than the issuance of threats like this by the administration against the press? Wonderfully:
To wit:
As for that NY Times Clinton report itself? As noted, it's a "liberal" newspaper, and, as the Nation's other leading newspaper tells us, all liberals want to do is "turn the democratic party solidly against the war on terror."
Having known Gary Hart for 34 years, and having worked in both of his presidential campaigns, I do not believe that the media's obsession with his personal life was provoked by Hart, or reflects poor judgment or a betrayal by him to his supporters. Sensationalism sells newpapers in today's marketplace, and Hart's problems were provoked by a journalism ethic that sold sensationalism.
To my knowledge not one newspaper has ever mentioned that Gary Hart has remained in the same marriage for nearly 50 years. I doubt that many reporters who continue to comment about Hart's mistake 20 years ago can claim to have been in a marriage for half that length.
It's time to let Hart out of the stockades, and praise him for the leadership skills he has given to his country for 50 years, and for inspiring thousands of other young Americans to serve their country.
It's also time for the media to recognize that the more we place political leaders personal lives under a microscope, the less likely it will be that qualified leaders enter government service, thereby causing a decline in the quality of leadership. We are not electing saints to political office.
If we would have examined the personal lives of our Founding Fathers the way many of our leaders personal lives are examined today, most of them would have been banished from government long before they could have served their country.
It's time for America's media to take a good look in the mirror on this issue.
I hope that Americans - those who gave Bill Clinton favorability ratings in the 70% range during and after the impeachment/attempted political coup - will reject strongly even these first, cowardly returns to sleaze politics.
I can't believe that we will allow the "sex life", "roving", "swiftboating" again in 06 and 08.