Matthews equated Allen's embrace of Confederate flag with hypothetical Democratic candidate who once wore an Albert Einstein shirt
SUMMARY: On Hardball, Chris Matthews downplayed the political implications of Sen. George Allen's (R-VA) history of displaying the Confederate flag by comparing it to hypothetical candidates "out there on the left" who may have worn a "sweatshirt" depicting Nobel Prize-winning scientist Albert Einstein. Moreover, Matthews suggested that voting against Allen in a presidential election because he has previously embraced the Confederate flag would be like "vot[ing] against a person because they wore a Che Guevara T-shirt in their 20s."
During a discussion with National Review Washington editor Kate O'Beirne and Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne on the May 24 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, host Chris Matthews downplayed the political implications of Sen. George Allen's (R-VA) history of displaying the Confederate flag by comparing it to hypothetical candidates "out there on the left" who may have worn a "sweatshirt" depicting Nobel Prize-winning scientist Albert Einstein. Moreover, Matthews suggested that voting against Allen in a presidential election because he has previously embraced the Confederate flag would be like "vot[ing] against a person because they wore a [guerrilla leader] Che Guevara T-shirt in their 20s." But Allen has displayed and expressed support for the Confederate flag much more recently than when he was in his 20s, and also used to "kept a noose hanging on a ficus tree in his law office," as The New Republic documented in two recent articles.
In an April 27 article, "George Allen's race problem," The New Republic reported that Allen once displayed a Confederate flag in his living room, had one on his car in high school, and "kept a noose hanging on a ficus tree in his law office, [which] he said ... was part of a Western memorabilia collection." In a follow-up article, the magazine reported on May 4 that "some conservatives," including columnist Kathleen Parker, argued that revelations about Allen's high school photograph were irrelevant because the picture is dated. But the magazine noted that Allen has a "four-decade embrace of the Confederate flag," and that he "has either displayed the flag -- on himself, his car, inside his home -- or expressed his enthusiastic approval of the emblem from approximately 1967 to 2000." The magazine reported that Allen displayed it in his Palos Verdes (California) High School senior photograph and University of Virginia dorm room and in "the very first ad that Allen broadcast in 1993, when he ran for governor." Allen endorsed it as recently as a 2000 campaign event. Nevertheless, Matthews equated Allen's embrace of the Confederate flag to hypothetical candidates who wore Che Guevara, or even Albert Einstein, shirts while in their 20s.
From the May 4 New Republic article:
It is the Confederate flag, and it appears in the very first ad that Allen broadcast in 1993, when he ran for governor.
"The ad ran in the beginning of his campaign, when we were introducing him," says Allen's 1993 media consultant, Greg Stevens, who made the spot. Stevens denies that the flag was purposefully added to the scene, which lasts for ten seconds of the 60-second commercial, to appeal to pro-Confederate voters.
[...]
Images of Allen are like a Civil War version of Where's Waldo, with the Confederate flag replacing the bespectacled cartoon character. First, as The New Republic reported last week, there's the senior class photo from Palos Verdes High School with Allen wearing a Confederate flag pin ("Pin Prick," May 8). Now we learn that the Confederate flag appears as a decoration in Allen's first statewide ad, even though he has long maintained that the flag did not adorn his home after 1992.
[...]
After his Confederate flag pin-wearing days in Palos Verdes, Allen attended the University of Virginia from 1971 to 1977. According to two law school classmates and one undergraduate classmate, Allen displayed the flag on his pickup truck while at UVA. "I can independently confirm," Allen law school classmate Don Cornwell writes in an e-mail, "as can hundreds of my classmates at the UVA Law School, that for the three years that George was there he drove an old pickup truck with notably newer Confederate flags on the bumpers. George and his truck was sort of a running joke in the law school."
According to a little-noticed 1993 Los Angeles Times article, Allen also displayed the flag in his room at UVA -- a university where it was an explosive issue.
[...]
In 1995, 1996, and 1997, Allen issued a proclamation drafted by the Sons of Confederate Veterans celebrating April as Confederate History and Heritage Month. The document made no mention of slavery.
[...]
As recently as 2000, Allen still publicly expressed support for the Confederate flag. A [Washington] Post reporter accompanying Allen at an event in Virginia captured this scene: "When one man at the Pork Festival said to Allen, 'Long live the Confederate flag!' he replied, 'You got it!'"
From the May 24 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:
MATTHEWS: OK. OK, let's play this the other way. Kate, suppose you've found out that one of the guys who is a young candidate today, somebody in their 30s or 40s running for senator or something bigger, used to love to wear a Che Guevara T-shirt. I think that's, at this point, absolutely harmless because there is no fight with Che Guevara anymore. He was killed years ago by our side. Would that be a fair thing to use against somebody? A Che Guevara T-shirt?
O'BEIRNE: Well, people bothered by it would be bothered by it not because he poses a current threat, a present threat, but because of what he represented, which is --
MATTHEWS: Would you vote against a person because they wore a Che Guevara T-shirt in their 20s?
O'BEIRNE: Alone? I would have questions. I'd wonder what it meant.
MATTHEWS: What do you think would it mean that would bother you?
O'BEIRNE: That this individual -- this individual was an admirer of this brutal communist who, with blood on his hands, was responsible for the kind of oppression that revolution has given us.
MATTHEWS: It couldn't be -- well, how about -- let's think. People wear Karl Marx sweatshirts. I guess that's more ridiculous. They wear Einstein sweatshirts, we all grew up with those. They were OK.
[...]
MATTHEWS: You're being very judicial here, E.J. Do you find -- would you wear --
DIONNE: I don't think this is a problem.
MATTHEWS: -- would you wear a Che Guevara T-shirt right now?
DIONNE: No, I wouldn't.
MATTHEWS: Why? Why wouldn't you wear one?
DIONNE: Why? Because I'm not a communist. I'm on the Democratic left.
O'BEIRNE: Unfortunately, they're extremely popular. I have to hope --
DIONNE: I'm a secular Democrat, not a communist --
O'BEIRNE: I have to hope a bunch of kids wearing them currently, because they're pretty popular -- actually don't understand who he is and what he did. George Allen is a lucky man. This Confederate flag stuff's going to sound pretty old by 2008.
[crosstalk]
MATTHEWS: I know, that's probably -- by asking you about it tonight it begins to erode already. However, I like this Che Guevara question, too, because I think there's some people out there on the left who maybe have been wearing one. We'll see pictures of those someday. Anyway, thank you, E.J. Dionne. Thank you, Kate O'Beirne.
understand this issue it is not only of wearing a t-shirt, but actually of proudly defending this flag and what it stands for by spoken and written word, which goes a lot further than just showing or wearing it.
Matthews is of course far out of line by talking about Einstein.
On the other hand: yes, some on the left (or far left) embrased and defended Che and Castro and Lenin and Marx and Ho Chi Min and Mao and are cool about it. I won't easily embrase candidates that do that either.
Keep in mind what the Confederate flag stands for. Che Guevera pushed for a cause that can be seen as legitimate even in today's culture. The Confederate flag on the other hand does not stand for a legitimate cause in the current day and age of our American society. The bottom line is when people, even in the south, take a look at the confederate flag, they see a lasting sympathy for inequality, segregation, slavery, basicly everything that our parents fought hard to condemn (concerning equal rights, including the women's movement). To equate the two is absurd. I find it an insult that Einstein would be at all relatable to such a topic.
wanted to be the candidate for the guys with the confederate flags.
More detail please.
More sense, please.
Oh, wait. This is Leatherhelmet.
Never mind.
As Red would say: "Matthews, you're a real dumbass."
is Red's foot up his ass ;-)
Did you notice that new CIA man General Hayden is a dead ringer for Red. I half expected him to call one of the sentarors at his confirmation hearing a "Dumbass!"
"Shut up Reid you Dumbass!"
Matthews sure knows how to “dummy down” what could have been an interesting subject for discussion. What kind of logic is this? Makes up off the wall examples and scenarios to sit in as justification for real people with real racism issues. In the first place if the Rovian Republicans had a picture of any left candidate wearing a Che shirt they would have plastered it form car windshield-to-windshield etc. etc. etc. and on and on. His hopes would be toast. But since the “back of the bus” folks are in charge Matty knows his audience. The southern Republicans are just the new Dixiecrats of old, but hidden meanings in the Da-lynching Code are still there to be found and understood by all the right people..
this 'what if' issue is used to polish away a real issue of embrasing confederate principles.
Einstein was way into slavery and states' rights.
I have never worn a Che Guevara T shirt and have never met any one over the age of 19 wearing one. To compare a 19 year old wearing a Che Guevara shirt to a 40 year old idolitry of a confederate flag is a hugh stretch. People can wear the Confederate flag, but I will never wear the flag of traitors to the United States of America
1) A 40 year old *elected* official wrapped in the "Stars and Bars" is the same thing as a 20 year old college student's ironic 'Albert Einstein' T-shirt?
2) So they are OK with the 'Che Guevera' T-shirts? Funny, the RW comic strip, Mallard Filmore just ran a week long series railing against them.
3) The RW seem to be quite forgiving with Republicans' 'youthful indiscretions' - Bush's drinking problem, Cheney's drinking problem, Rush's drug problem, Bennett's gambling problem, Gingrich's adultery problem, etc... But God forbid Clinton ever once smoked a joint...
Matthews is such a maroon.
I can't take it anymore, I really can't. We need a new country -- we need to deport these people.
That's the most retarded analogy I've heard from Matthews since.. well, just last week.
Allen is steeped in the traditions represented by the Confederate Flag.
Matthews has drawn some "parallels". Let's take that as a valid comparison.
If you disagree with the principles symbolized by the Confederate Flag, don't vote for Allen.
Also, if one of Allen's challengers wears a Che Guevara T-Shirt while campaigning, don't vote for HIM (or HER) either.
Now all Matthews has to do is present the photographic evidence of Allen's opponent sporting a "Che" T, and the equivalence is complete.
Don't hold your breath. Oh, and don't vote for Allen, either. He's on record. Matthew's hypothetical, safe to say, will NEVER materialize.
It's a fair analogy that Matthews makes between the Confederate flag and a Geuvara t-shirt, in that both represent extreme positions of different ends of the spectrum. Discussing hypothetical situations can also be fair for analyzing the soundness of a particular position. Of course, one has to approach with care the generalizing of a hypothetical to a specific situation.
The southern states along the eastern seaboard and Gulf of Mexico were settled in the mid to late 17th century. And of all the things that happened in these states during their 350 year history, these nut cases choose to focus on a four year period in which these states tore apart the United States and all that it stands for. Yeah, I'm sure a few of the confederate flag-waving morons had ancestors who gave their lives for the cause, but those folks should scorned - not honored- for taking up arms against the United States while wearing the uniforms of an enemy country. Surely there is something else in Virginia's colorful history that Senator Allen can be proud of besides it's secession from the U.S.?
Plato
Why in the world would Matthews defend Allens wearing a confederate flag? Allen certainly has the right to wear it but for matthews giving it his OK is sickening. Matthews has been around long enuff to know the hurt ,harm & anger that flag represents.When I see a senator wearing that flag it sgnals to me that he still wishes that the South had won the war & that there was 2 countries . If thats the case than he should have the guts to say so. I am German american but I would never wear a swatzsticker or german flag unless I believed in what that flag represented. I bet a Japanese american would never wear the japanese sun flag of WW2. Ect. Is Allen an american or a confederate? Its a valid Question.
would be someone waving a swastika.
NOW IF THIS WAS A DEMOCRATE CHRIS WOULD BE ALL OVER HIM OR HER!!!
matthews gets away with some outrageous statements and implications on his show. whether or not his point is well taken about the flag, as a symbolf of loyalty to the south, to analogize it to an albert einstein shirt, is trash journalism. but what did the guests on his show say? how do they let him get away with this crap.
considering how smart he is, his show is a travesty. he has become consumed with so many right wing talking point stereogypes and fallacies that his sharp mind sometimes states things so inane you wonder if ...
at any rate, the point is, this has to be communciated to MSNBC. his show is atrocious. and other than olberman, who does a pretty good show, his show is the most "democratic show" on MSNBC. (frankly, conservative tucker carlson is more reasonable than matthews, but his show is hardly "balanced")
what has mattehews been doing about these types of things by President Bush, who back in September, 2001, told the nation
MSNBC's phone number is 201 583 5000
...never took up arms against the United States of America.
The folks who brandished tAllen's symbol did.
Honestly, display of that flag should be illegal
Isn't it ironic that those who love it most are the ones always screaming about the treason of liberals?
Southern Pride is just a talking point designed by the murderous greedy neo-con type traitors who started the civil war in the first place to keep their cause going in the face of defeat. Anyone who flys that flag is a 100% supporter of treason, hate, oppression, slavery and murder, and should be punished accordingly.
I'd love to go on and explain that to Matthews