Defending Coulter, O'Reilly and Limbaugh claimed she "doesn't lie"
SUMMARY: In defending Ann Coulter -- who smeared both liberals and the widows of the 9-11 victims in her new book and recent public appearances -- Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh claimed that Coulter "doesn't lie." But Media Matters for America has previously documented numerous statements by Coulter that have proved to be untrue.
In defending right-wing pundit Ann Coulter -- who smeared both liberals and the widows of the victims of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in her new book, Godless: The Church of Liberalism (Crown Forum, June 2006), and in recent public appearances -- Fox News host Bill O'Reilly and nationally syndicated radio host Rush Limbaugh claimed that Coulter "doesn't lie." Although Media Matters for America does not purport to know whether Coulter advances false claims consciously, we have previously documented numerous statements by Coulter that have proved to be untrue.
During an interview with right-wing activist and author David Horowitz on the June 8 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, O'Reilly asked Horowitz to identify "the difference" between Coulter and liberal satirist and Air America Radio host Al Franken. O'Reilly then answered his own question, claiming that, although "Franken lies, and we can prove that," "Coulter doesn't lie." O'Reilly offered no evidence to support his claim that Franken lies but claimed, on the June 8 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio program, that, in his upcoming book, Culture Warrior (Broadway Books, September 2006), he "will prove that beyond any doubt at all" both Franken and liberal filmmaker Michael Moore "consciously lie."
Media Matters has, in fact, documented numerous false statements by Coulter, including:
- She falsely accused former President Bill Clinton of being a "very good rapist."
- She falsely claimed Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) refused to release his military records and tax forms during his 2004 presidential campaign, when, in fact, both were posted on his website.
- She falsely claimed that former President Clinton's private secretary was the highest-placed African-American in the Clinton administration.
- She falsely accused The New York Times of "out[ing]" gay children of prominent conservatives.
- She falsely claimed the Arizona Daily Star dropped her syndicated column to "keep[] conservatives out."
Similarly, on the June 8 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show, Limbaugh claimed: "You can say whatever you want about Ann Coulter, but she doesn't lie about what liberals say. She doesn't make it up, and she doesn't take it out of context." In fact, Coulter has misrepresented, numerous times, the remarks of liberals, progressives, and Democrats. As Media Matters documented:
- She erroneously claimed that liberal financier George Soros "said the reason for anti-Semitism is the Jews."
- She falsely accused University of Chicago professor Steven D. Levitt and Stanford University professor John J. Donohue III -- whom she identified as "liberals" -- of "defending Roe v. Wade."
- She falsely asserted that Elizabeth Edwards -- whom she identified as the "white wife of vice presidential candidate John Edwards" -- "warned of riots unless John Kerry is elected."
From the June 8 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:
O'REILLY: Well, she'll get a fair shake on this program and on this network.
HOROWITZ: Yes. Well, you did --
O'REILLY: But, in some -- yeah, in some places she won't. What's the difference between Ann Coulter and Al Franken? I mean --
HOROWITZ: Well, good point. Ann Coulter is funnier and smarter. But the fact is that Franken and -- a really nasty piece of work -- Bill Maher get a totally free ride, you know, for their viciousness.
O'REILLY: Well, they do. But that's the left-wing media doing that. I have an answer to this question. I'm going to ask you one more time. What's the difference between the tactics that Coulter uses and the tactics that Franken uses?
HOROWITZ: Well, like I say, I think they're both in the field of political satire, and, therefore, they're going to make statements that for others would be over the top. But, you know -- and you might say Witches of Eastwick -- East Brunswick is a little over the top.
O'REILLY: I didn't care about that. The thing that I thought -- I don't care about that. The thing that I thought was beyond the pale was saying that they enjoyed their husbands' demise.
HOROWITZ: Well, the fact is that they --
O'REILLY: I don't believe that's satire. But here's the difference between Franken and Coulter. I have to answer my own question here.
HOROWITZ: Go ahead.
O'REILLY: Coulter doesn't lie. Coulter doesn't lie.
HOROWITZ: Well, that's true.
O'REILLY: She's over the top in my opinion, and I don't like her tactics at all and I think they diminish her.
HOROWITZ: She's exposing rank hypocrisy here.
O'REILLY: Yeah, she does that.
HOROWITZ: These are the same people who in attacking her who attack our troops, and, you know, I've already --
O'REILLY: We demonstrated that earlier, David, in the program.
HOROWITZ: OK.
O'REILLY: I mean, these people on the far left are despicable people. There's no question. But Franken lies, and we can prove that. Coulter doesn't.
From the June 8 broadcast of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:
CALLER: I'll tell you, on this Ann Coulter thing, let me just say that I think that the comparison to Al Franken isn't quite accurate, and here's why: Yeah, Ann Coulter's probably a bomb-thrower but, you know, she's a smart bomb-thrower. The stuff that she says is -- it's, number one, it's accurate and it's truthful, unlike, you know, what Franken or Michael Moore --
O'REILLY: That's a good -- that's a good point. That's an excellent point. And Coulter herself should have made it. Franken and Moore consciously lie. All right. Consciously lie. I haven't seen that with Ann Coulter. So, that -- that's an excellent point. In -- in her, you know -- she uses the same techniques, you know, bomb-throwing personal attacks, but I haven't seen her consciously lie where the other two do. And there's no question they do. Again, in my upcoming September book, I will prove that beyond any doubt at all.
From the June 8 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show:
LIMBAUGH: There's actual slander and libel that the left is engaging in. Michael Moore takes people out of context. He's in the process of being sued by somebody who was misused in his movie for $85 million, a military man who was in a video clip taken totally out of context. Well, you can say whatever you want about Ann Coulter, but she doesn't lie about what liberals say. She doesn't make it up, and she doesn't take it out of context. It is between-your-eyes truth, just as all of us on the right are between-the-eyes truth when we talk about and identify the left. They can't handle it.
with not one un-fried braincell left between them
Other than telling them,all the time,Limbaugh and lies are strangers.Rush doesn't kmow decency either.
coulter doesn't get defending from me, but this is more mmfa spin. just because someone "falsely claims" something or "falsely asserts" something, as coulter does frequently does not constitute her as being a liar. that goes to intent, and unless mmfa can prove she KNOWLINGLY asserted or claimed falsely, then they can't prove she lied. besides, doesn't she say enough outrageous things just by giving her opinion?
If you advance lies YOU ARE A LIAR! There is no gray area between truth and fiction: truths are truths and untruths (whatever the motivation) are LIES.
Go back and actually read the article before posting next time.
Notice this sentence, near the beginning:
"Although Media Matters for America does not purport to know whether Coulter advances false claims consciously, we have previously documented numerous statements by Coulter that have proved to be untrue."
I think Coulter knowingly lies. It's how she makes her money, pandering to the knuckledrag contingent that can't get enough of Coulter and her racism, religious bigotry, slander, and libel of anyone to the left of Joe McCarthy. (One of Coulter's heros, BTW.)
These sorts all play the game of perpetuating 'unknowable truths'... That is, no one can really say if what she says is real or not...it's all conjecture and emotion and nonsensical. It's unprovable for the most part. Therefore, Limbaugh and O'Reilly aren't telling lies either... because no one can possibly prove them right OR wrong. It's circular nonsense.
Either the tide has truly turned (ie. we ARE a nation of complete morons who believe ANYTHING that is spewed at us from these jerks)... or, they'll burn themselves out (sooner, I think, than later).
I just realized (after reading RIGHT ON's post above) that I sort supported his argument. However, I do believe she lies knowingly, but again, these lies, half-truths and fibs are based in emotion and not reality... therefore, they cannot be proved or disproved.
If Ann were being accused of PERJURY, then the "elements" of a technical LIE would have to be proven up, and it would be hard proving the "intent" element.
But not impossible.
If Ann were sued in civil court for slander (or libel -- and she soon MAY be), then the "intent" requirement would come down to WHY did she make the comment? Was it true? If not, did she KNOW it was not true, or that she couldn't prove it, but said it publicly anyway?
Coulter makes her comments to HARM others, to hopefully destroy their reputations and assassinate their characters. She does so with malice aforethought. And she makes comments stated as FACTS that she has no way of confirming.
Thus, she is a liar. A damnable liar, who will one day soon discover that she CANNOT just say any vile thing that springs into her warped mind. Not without consequence.
However, making any of these accusations stick is another story (especially in today's semi-rabid climate).
O'REILLY: Franken and Moore consciously lie. All right. Consciously lie. I haven't seen that with Ann Coulter.
Bill O'Reilly is the one who claims to know what goes on in the minds of Al Franken, Michael Moore and Ann Coulter. Which is laughable because I personally don't believe that Bill O'Reilly even knows what goes on in the mind of Bill O'Reilly.
you lie and I'll swear to it. BOR
Coulter is a professional who makes public statements as part of her JOB. She has a responsibility to KNOW, when she makes a claim about a person, that it is true. If she is so careless with the truth while making such statements about people it is the same as a lie. The only way out of this is IF she is wrong she has a responsibility to just as publicly as her statement was to repudiate her comments, and appologize. She didnt do this. She is a liar.
---"coulter doesn't get defending from me"---
Yes she does--you just did it.
But for someone who claims that they're not defending Ann Coulter, you sure have written a lot of posts defending her.
You stated nothing that the article didn't cover in the first few paragraphs.
You either did not read the article before posting or you did not comprehend that you were parroting what they had already clearly stated.
Lack of reading comprehesion is one of the biggest reasons a person falls for Coulter and O'Reilly's nonsense.
"Ann Coulter is funnier and smarter. But the fact is that Franken and -- a really nasty piece of work -- Bill Maher get a totally free ride, you know, for their viciousness. "
That not only are these guys full of it, completely, but that they wouldn't know funny if it hit them in the face.
Ann Coulter funnier than Al Franken or even Bill Maher?
Now that is funny.
and is in trouble for it. The director of parishioners at the church she says she attends in Manhattan has never seen her there. BTW, her new book is a critic of liberals called "Godless".
Franken pointed out in his "Lies and Liars" that Coulter's proof that Time magazine was left leaning was that it's editor, Evan Thomas, was the son of the American Socialist, Norman Thomas. In fact, the two are not relatives of any kind. Well, that's all the Coulter lies I can think of off the top of my head.
You're wrong about the Norm Thomas thing. Al notes in the ENDNOTES that Norman Thomas was Evan Thomas's grandfather. (The reason he hid this in the back wasn't to lie, but to show how people can be easily misled with being lied to by manipulating words and using Endnotes as prrof that they didn't lie.)
I meant "without technically being lied to" . . .
"But the fact is that Franken and -- a really nasty piece of work -- Bill Maher get a totally free ride, you know, for their viciousness."
I'd venture to say that the demise of Politically Incorrect would disqualify Maher in the "free ride" club.
Meanwhile, this cipher continues to spew her vitriol.
I can't wait to rush to the store to buy O'Reilly's book. Now we can get the 'truth.' LMAO
"just because someone "falsely claims" something or "falsely asserts" something, as coulter does frequently does not constitute her as being a liar. that goes to intent"
and if someone who appears in the media regularly as a commentator is "frequently" wrong, as you admit Coulter is, that's still not proof she's a liar. She could be a liar, or just incompetent.
And if you listen to someone who is inarguably a liar,incompetent, or both , and if you continue to respect their opinion and rely on it for your own info., you are a meathead.
and if you believe that "satire", as gangleskank describes her work, is most effective in defending the most powerful people while denigrating the least powerful, I'd steer you towards the section of your local library where they keep Swift, Twain, and those other hacks.
Intent is hard to prove. Consistently being wrong is pretty easy to see.
frequently denounced her opinions. I think he is right on one point: her opinions alone are damage enough (I hope).
"These women ENJOYED their husband's deaths. Oh lord, that really cuts them in a satrical way! Satire doesn't get any better!"
SATIRE: "A literary work in which human vice or folly is attacked through irony, derision, or wit."
So the women's "FOLLY" would be speaking out against George W. Bush's policies, and the "attack" on them by saying they enjoyed their husbands' deaths would be "derision".
The definition holds true if one agrees FREE SPEECH about POLICY in America is FOLLY, and if your idea of a good "derision" is to smear and insult based on NO facts.
So even if one agrees Coulter is a "satirist" -- just as one might agree Bush is "president" -- it's obviously possible to FAIL at all the requirements of the title.
I have heard the comment: "Ann Coulter is the Right Wing version of Michael Moore."
I have to dissagree.
Michael Moore is a fat ugly slob....and I predict will have to pay big dollars in a law suit to a Iraq War veteran who Michael Moore lied about in his last left-wing propoganda film. Michael Moore is a literal clown.
Ann Coulter is a slim beautiful lady. She doesn't have to worry, for even a moment, about having to pay anyone money for lying about them or for slander.....because she isn't guilty of any such mis-deeds. Ann Coulter is a foxy patriot.
When Ann speaks to the Michael Moore/Howard Dean brand of left-wingers, she brings a whole new appreciation to the phrase, "Speaking Truth to Kooks".
---"She doesn't have to worry, for even a moment, about having to pay anyone money for lying "---
Coulter won't have to make cash payments for her lies. Standards for political commentary couldn't sink any lower. Much more importantly, she's "slender" and "foxy"!
Were is all the so called lies that Franken and Maher have supposedly told. I have yet to see them point them out. where did they lie Bill O? Coulters on the other hand have been documented and prooven several times.
nothing more. Their closing their lines suggests to me that there is a central coordination in the moves of these right-wing pundits, including weighing in of GOP prominents.
Its a new motto: "victims are only good when we can use them"
What really gets to me isn't that they say things like this, it's that they can say such things unfiltered.
These guys are biased and that's fine. Everyone's allowed all the bias they want. It's not the networks' responsibility to ensure objectiveness in reporting on these types of shows, but they SHOULD ensure accuracy in reporting.
That BillO and Rush are allowed to say these things and have no one take them to task is just reprehensible and it shows a complete disregard for integrity in journalism or the role of journalists in the progress of the country.
It seem to me like many of you defending Coulter think she is not responsible for what she says simpley because she's too lazy to bother to check the validity of her "funny" tirads. How can anybody possibly take this unaccountable comedian seriously?
An accused liar being defended by two confirmed pathalogical liars.
You can't tell me the right doesn't have a sense of humor!
I forgot to add that little detail;
where are the lies of the left (frequent or infrequent). I'm not saying there aren't any out there, I'm only saying we don't see them pointed out very often.
Just the lies (I'm sorry, "misstatements" of the right) being defended by people with 1/10 the income of the people they're defending.
I don't like to resort to name calling, but;
suckers.
Beautiful! LOL
Basically, where are Ann Coulters facts? where are the lies?
They don't exist. She's as scared as O'Reilly and Hannity of the whole world.
Didnt O'reilly tell Coulter that she was the far rights version of Al Franken. I would call that a pretty extreme insult!
If it's an insult, it's only so because of how badly he views Al Franken. So coming from him it's a huge insult. Coming from me it would be a huge insult to Franken . . . and a great (yuck) compliment to Coulter. However, the way he said it implied she wasn't quite there, but that a warning not to 'step in that path.' I think he is afraid to piss off the right, because then he will have noone at all considering him a moderate. Both sides will call him biased. HA! But check this out from Wikipedia. See if you really see much fairness or balance:
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
O'Reilly's position on "extremists" in politics is divided between the "far left" and "far right". He personally considers Nazis[15], American militia groups[16], David Duke, [17] and the Ayn Rand Institute[18]," Ann Coulter (Radio Factor 6/07/06) to be on the far-right.
O'Reilly has identified the following people or organizations as being on the far left: Susan Sarandon [19], Russ Feingold [20], Chuck Schumer[21], Barbara Boxer[22], Ned Lamont[23], Cindy Sheehan[24], Ted Kennedy[25], Bruce Springsteen[26], Bill Moyers[27], Harry Belafonte[28], Howard Dean[29], Dixie Chicks[30], Al Franken[31], George Clooney[32], Media Matters for America[33], the ACLU[34], Air America Radio[35] and moveon.org[36] [37].
---"Didnt O'reilly tell Coulter that she was the far rights version of Al Franken."---
Coulter and Franken both talk politics. Other than that one commonality, however, on any given day Coulter is completely lacking in Franken's common decency, deference, wit, knowledge, subtlety, seriousness, politeness, courtesy, sense of humor, refinement, civility and thoughtfulness.
Ditto to all the truth against that nut. Look at her straw men ,too. That matches her straw brain.
O'Really says that he has a problem with Coulter saying that the 9/11 widows enjoyed their husbands' deaths.
Ten seconds later, he says that she doesn't lie. Basically agreeing with her.
Just amazing.
O'Reilly is unbelievable. The man never stops complaining about the far left lying and smearing, yet with the exception of where he grew up, he never gives an example of how they lied or smeared him. By not giving any examples, he is the one doing the smearing!
I've always found Horowitz to be a despicable, hateful, and ignorant man. After watching this clip, my impression of him is even more negative than it was before, and i didn't even think it was possible. Let's count the reasons why Horowitz is, as he described the great Bill Maher, a real nasty piece of work.
1. He's an agnostic. Seems odd that an agnostic would be shilling for the rabid religious right in this country but it's even worse than that. It would be one thing if he was just a secular man with conservative ideals. I could respect that, however he shows that he not only tolerates the religious nuts in his party, he supports them. He even went as far as to plug his newest book on Pat Robertson's show. Earth to Dave, at Robertson thinks you are going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity after you die and he views your beliefs, or lack thereof, as immoral. 2. He only does softball interviews with right wing hosts. He talks a tough game when interviewed by people like O'Reilly but put him in a tough forum such as Bill Maher's show and he'd be begginf for mercy.He's your typical right wing blow hard, only talk tough when the deck is stacked in your favor. 3.He complains about left-wingers being filled with hate while at the same time defending every hatefilled word that comes from Coulter. It's interesting to say the least to watch these rightwingers twist themselves in knots trying to defend Coulter while at the same time claim that the left is mean, intolerant, and filled with hate.I'm sure there are more reasons to despise this guy but my fingers are getting tired. Thanks to MM for once again spotlighting Dave Horowitz: a rightwing intellectual wannabe.
Annie can't lie---she is the Spokesperson for the Republican Party....and we know they never lie, just ask any one of them
these rightie baffoons are contemptuous. fist we have that intellectual giant, limbaugh, talking about polls that he disagrees with as "flawed" , " WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE INTERNALS", is a frequent refrain of his when arguing with polling results, their called independeent variables, and any poll worth the paper its written on uses a RANDOMIZEED SAMPLE which anyone with even the most basic understanding of stats knows and thus the problem with most righties , not only are their musings ,opinions ,but grossly uninformed ones. horowitz and o'reilly both concur that coulter is fumnnier than franken and maher, yet franken has won 5 emmys for comedy(been nominated for 6 more) and maher 2 for cable comedy. oh i forgot must be that left wing media that voted.
as with all lawyers, they are well versed in the art of deception and I'll say 98.9% of them "lie out thier ass". Once upon a time, I though about going to law school after I graduated from college and I am damn glad I didn't! Way too many sharks out there right now, so what would the point be of throwing another one in the mix be worth? To me, my sanity.
Personally, I don't see how Coulter could live with herself after telling these, obviously, distorted "half-truths" and "mumbo-jumbo" that she ascertains as the truth. I think she could do us all a favor and blow her damn brains out by her own hand. Now, that would be "supreme justice"!
Ann Coulter is the by product of recent cureent event where money and Fame can be gained by drinkimng the Neo-Con, Right Wing Troglidyte KooL -AID. Coulter has no morals and is certainly a Legend in her own mind Like O'Reilly they have done nothing to contribute to public good but act and behave insanely
Ann Coulter is just a cheap opportunist that was able to get a few bucks out the RNC to push her unfounded agenda! Ann you would orally coppulate with a donkey if it would make her a buck$.
So now you have joined a prestigouse list of liars, Spiro Agnew, Oliver North, Richar Nixon, Randy Duke Cunningham, Scooter libby and Vice President Cheny and Donald Rumsfeld, Bill O'reilly and Rush Bla Bla The Junky for good measure! Oh! Let us not forget that gem from Texas Tom Delay who has just resigned! Strangle you right wing Fox idiots didnt get the memo that rupert Murdoch is pissed it appears that due to poor ratings and lower than expected earnings an avertisment revenue. Ruphert Murdock has all ready to have a great changes made now 0that Fox News will be froze out once the democrats take over! R0sbert doesn't see Democrat or Rpublican he only sees $$$ and Power! But dont worry you can all go back to the right wing wasteland of AM radio where belong spreading your hate to a bunch of elderly angry white males most of whom are to ugly and fat they could get a date if the tried so its easier to hate everyone! .Isn't that right Ann no dates for The Wshington Ice Queen!
Lenny Caprino Palm SPrings, Ca.
to spin things in a negative or hateful way. Alot is what she probably believes in her warped little brain.