Ignoring polls, O'Reilly, Gingrich claimed most Americans oppose Senate immigration approach
SUMMARY: Fox News host Bill O'Reilly claimed that "most Americans have no tolerance for what they call amnesty" in the Senate immigration bill, and Fox News political contributor Newt Gingrich called the bill "absurd" because "it will be very unpopular." But recent polling almost universally shows that Americans support a path to citizenship -- provided for in the Senate bill -- for some illegal immigrants currently in the United States.
On the June 20 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, host Bill O'Reilly claimed that House Republicans "know most Americans have no tolerance for what they [House Republicans] call amnesty" in the Senate immigration bill. Similarly, on the June 21 edition of The Factor, former House Speaker and Fox News political contributor Newt Gingrich (R-GA) alleged that House Republicans don't want to adopt the "absurd amnesty bill the Senate passed" or "an amnesty bill of any kind," because "it will be very unpopular." In fact, the Senate bill does not call for "amnesty," as some opponents of the bill suggest, but instead proposes a path to citizenship for some illegal immigrants currently in the United States, a provision that most recent polling shows a majority of Americans support.
For example, a May 16-17 CBS News poll found that 77 percent of those polled favored "let[ting] illegal immigrants already here for 5 years stay & work if they learn English, pay back taxes and a fine, and have no criminal record." Likewise, a May 16-17 CNN poll showed that 79 percent favored "creating a program that would allow illegal immigrants already living in the United States for a number of years to stay in this country and apply for U.S. citizenship if they had a job and paid back taxes." And when asked in a CBS/New York Times poll issued May 4-8, "[I]f you had to choose, what do you think should happen to most illegal immigrants who have lived and worked in the United States for at least two years? They should be given a chance to keep their jobs and eventually apply for legal status. OR, They should be deported back to their native country," 61 percent supported immigrants having the chance to keep their jobs.
The comments by O'Reilly and Gingrich also ignored other aspects of the House bill that Americans oppose and parts of the Senate bill Americans support. The House bill includes a provision making illegal presence in the U.S. a felony. In the most recent polling that asked for an opinion on the House provision that would make illegal immigration a felony, an April 27 CNN poll found that 56 percent opposed the provision. The poll also found that 77 percent approved of the plan put forth in the Senate bill to allow immigrants who have lived in America for at least five years to apply for citizenship.
Moreover, May 5-7 Gallup poll (subscription required) that asked Americans to express their "view about what government policy should be toward illegal immigrants currently residing in the United States," found that 61 percent supported a policy that would allow immigrants to "remain in the U.S. and become a citizen." A May 3 Zogby poll did show more support for the House bill than the Senate bill, but that poll misrepresented both proposals, as Media Matters for America documented. Polls from April also showed consistently stronger public support for the Senate bill than for the House bill, as Media Matters also demonstrated.
From a discussion with Steve Camarota, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies, on the June 20 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:
O'REILLY: "Unresolved problem" segment tonight, the debate continues over what to do with an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in the USA. The Senate wants many of them to stay, with strict oversight. The House wants all of them to go back home. Joining us now is Dr. Steven Camarota, the director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, a hard-line anti-illegal immigration group. OK. So I don't think there's going to be a compromise here. Both the House and the Senate are dug in to their positions. The Republicans in the House see it as a campaign issue. They know most Americans have no tolerance for what they call amnesty. But you've done some research that the Senate basically puts forth seven million people would be allowed to stay here approximately. Seven million people. And then you take it from there. Out of those seven million, what would happen?
CAMAROTA: Well, right. We think that of the people who are eligible, a little over seven million will actually come forward and get their legalization. In addition to that, based on the last amnesty and some other work people have done looking at how much fraud there actually is in the immigration system, we expect one fraudulent application for every three legitimate. So another almost three million can be expected to get it fraudulently.
From the June 21 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:
GINGRICH: Well, I would encourage the House Republicans to do what they've announced in the last two days, and that is, go to the country, hold hearings. I hope every member of both parties will go to the country and hold hearings. I would challenge the senators to do the same thing. Get out of Washington and in August spend a week or two back home actually listening to the American people, not the lobbyists, not the theoreticians, not the staffs. Go back home, and I would challenge the senators, go around the country and hold open hearings on this absurd amnesty bill the Senate passed, and I think they'd come back in September ready to talk about a much narrower bill, a bill which sequenced first, controlling the border; second, going --
O'REILLY: All right, I got all that. But don't you think the Republicans want no bill. They don't want anything so they can campaign on it. Come on.
GINGRICH: There will be an enormous advantage for the House Republicans to get a border control bill signed by the president. That would be popular with the country, it would be attractive, and it's the right first step.
O'REILLY: I see what you mean. So, if their bill goes, that would be an advantage, but they don't want to compromise on it.
GINGRICH: Well, they certainly don't want an amnesty bill of any kind because it'll be very unpopular.
But recent polling almost universally shows that Americans support a path to citizenship -- provided for in the Senate bill -- for some illegal immigrants currently in the United States.
I find that hard to believe. Sure, if you talk to the avergae person that gets thier information from the Media(TV News), they may feel a path to citizenship is ok. However, you break down the facts and show the negative effects of ILLEGAL Immigration, the same person is likley to change thier mind.
a path to citizenship is amnesty. why can't these ninny politicians call it what it is? you don't reward lawbreakers from another country by giving them a path to citizenship until they go through the proper, legal channels as millions have before them. not only is it disrespectful but a slap in the face to law abiding people who waded through the immigration process - legally.
...for the most part. But once we plug the "leak" with border security reform how do we address those that are already here? I just don't see how mass deportation would work. How do you find those who should be deported and how do you fund that deportation? We can't just leave the problem of those already here illegally unanswered.
mass deportation is unreasonable. there are far too many illegals here for one thing to round them up, etc. and then you would be splitting families if they have had children here, etc. and i would be willing to talk about a guest worker program ONLY AFTER our borders are secure. we heard this back from reagan in the 80's and hearing it now from bush - comprehensive reform, NO. the 80's unenforcement of our borders, after they said it would happen, has led to this mess we are in now. control the borders first, after the politicians have demonstrated they can do that, then expand the discussion.
Illegal Workers should be heavily fined, and jailed if needed. This would stop Illegal Immigration without a Fence!
If they can't find job or a place to live they will simply go home and maybe work on making their homeland a better place. No need for mass deportation.
Apparently, it indicates that America is stupid and misinformed, judging by your assessment.
Why do you "hate America"?
Yeah you have a point, but don't tell the people that are coming here illegally to go back and get in line. Just say go back beacuse there is no line for them to get into. There are criteria for coming here legally and the average illegal doesn't meet any of the criteria, so they would most likely never be eligible to migrate here legally. I agree we can't and shouldn't accept this uncontrolled immigration and susequent unplanned population growth, but the go back and get in line like everyone else isn't a valid argument.
<[link to www.us-immigration.com]
Hi Lynn. I am one of those guilty of the “get back in line” thinking. But you are correct. There may be no line for many of them to “get in”. It takes scraping together funds to tackle the legal aspects of immigrating to the US. I wonder why the people are not more effective in engineering change at home. I think someone had a valid point in another thread perhaps we have to look into how we pressure their country to improve their circumstances so they won’t feel the need to escape that life. It is an inherently unfair situation…most of us were just lucky to be born here…we did nothing to “earn” this citizenship. It smacks of shouting “sorry bub you lucked out being born over there.” But what is the alternative?
"I wonder why the people are not more effective in engineering change at home." ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ That's the key. I've noticed in poor latin nations that don't border a rich nation they've done that. It's a long road but it eventually has an effect. Although it's probably difficult for our neigboring poor latins to think along those lines when they're hungry and broke and a quick fix is just waiting across the border. Hopefully and soon something will spark in Mexico what I saw at the immigration rallies in the US. That's were those passions and efforts should really be directed.
Have a good evening
Wonder why Grinchy is on TV so much lately? He's going to swoop down out of his cave and save America from the turrists and the libruls in 2008. I'm sure they've already figured out how to steal it.
by swiping for no reason at gingrich instead of addressing his point indicates blind partisanship, not very attractive.
Moi, Partisan?
If, by "partisan" you mean that I hate the Republican party for what it's doing to this country, and will vote for a fence post before voting for one of those slimey bastards, then I plead guilty.
By his point you mean Gingrich's ignorance of the polling data. The polling data that runs exactly counter to his analysis--by a hefty margin too. That point?
His point is not supported by any objective fact.
I prefer the term, ILLEGAL ALIEN.......
"undocumented worker" or "undocumented immigrant" terms, I don't care.
Illegal immigrant is fine.
I'm as liberal as they come but I don't believe those polls for a second. I have yet to talk to a single human in this country who supports amnesty for illegals.
The senate bill is not very good as it basically says, come on in and don't worry about a thing the American taxpayer will pick up all your bills and pay for your kids AND we'll let you bring in all the family members you can squeeze into a bus.
The House Bill by the way, was supposed to be changed to take out the FELONY part but DEMOCRATS BLOCKED IT. Now ya gotta wonder why they did that? Is it more important to play politics with peoples lives (silly me of course it is) than it is to figure out a solution?
The Senate Bill when more properly explained to people changes their minds. How about if WE Americans get to pick THREE OF THE LAST FIVE YEARS to pay taxes on?
Sorry but they need to follow the law, go back home and apply to come here and if that isn't fast enough for them, then MAYBE THEY SHOULD TRY MARCHES IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY!!
I am just sorry but I don't like people breaking the law and then DEMANDING we roll over and give them whatever they want.
Sorry but a fine is NOT the way to do and you know what? They don't have to pay the fine. That is just smoke and mirrors, In the Senate bill was a provision that if they couldn't afford it, that was okay, they didn't have to pay it.
As well it also said that they could apply to stay and THEN NEVER APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP!
So that was pure amnesty and nothing more.
We simply cannot afford to keep letting people in. As for the five year bit? Who is going to tell the truth? There are people who forge documents all the time.
We would be simply saying, "Hey we're suckers, just tell us you've been here five years and then head on over to the Welfare office, the American taxpayer can't wait to support you and all of your family with free welfare, medical, schooling, Section 8 housing, free foodstamps and screw the poor Americans".
Because as well, Poor Americans are not eligible for the same benefits illegals would get.
Try telling the people polled the truth and see what happens then to your numbers.
As for needing guest workers?
Simple solution.
They sign up in Mexico (or wherever outside of the U.S.) and the employer swears an oath under penalty of federal prison time that he cannot find a single American or legal resident to do the work.
THEN the employer pays to have the guest worker come up and posts a bond to make sure he doesn't take off. He is also responsible for all medical and other costs.
After the job is done, back to Mexico (or wherever)
Simple solution.
Right now all the Senate bill do is open the borders and grant amnesty to anyone who can set foot in this country. Why bother doing it legally, just jump the fence, grab a jet and claim you are going to have a short visit and just stay.
In 1986 we tried the amnesty thing and look where it got us.
Sorry but this isn't the past and we simply cannot afford to let everyone come here and leech off of us or lower our standard of living simply to help make some CEO even richer than he already is.
The polls are dishonest in this case.
with people far more liberal than i. [i'm more antibush than far left.] and it is the same experience. on this issue, they do not support amnesty and they want the borders secured. i was reading an associated press story last sunday about a woman who had her social security number stolen and sold to dozens of illegal aliens. they actually caught one guy with a fake id, but he was not arrested. and nothing is done when the same number keeps showing up. the businesses pay a small fine and life goes on.
I think the Senate bill in question is great. It would give the illegals here some rights, and help incorporate them into society better. It would be a "reboot" for the immigration policy.
And I'm an immigrant who did it lawfully = spent a couple of years and did lots of paperwork :).
I agree with your assessment that most Americans, Republicans and Democrats, are not in favor of Amnesty for Illegal Immigrants. I also feel that if given the choice, most Americans are in favor of Strong Clamping Down on Employers of Illegals. NO JOBS = NO ILLEGALS!
Some of the illegal aliens may have added to our social system, and I agree it would be nice to allow them to get ahead of the game, somehow....... However, I feel most of the 12-15 million are not assimilating themselves well. And this, bothers me greatly.
There was a time when the newspaper kid would hit my poarch. There was a time highschool kids worked at our fast food joints during summer break. THere was a time when being a Carpenter in America was a proud job. There was a time, there was a time, there was a time....
The first Amnesty program setup by Reagan becase a utter failure, look where we are now. I grew up as a highschool kid durring those times. I landscaped for 10 years following. I have seen the flood of illegal aliens before my eyes. The Home Depots parking lots are starting to look like Tiajuana. Many of my neighbores have been ripped of by ""skilled"" landscapers, and concrette workers. I know at least a dozen people that have been taken advantage of in the last two years.
I see people driving around with kids not in car seats. Germs are brought into the country by some of the illegal aliens.
Oh man, I could go on and on and on.
My wife migrated over as a young baby from the Filpiines at age 3. Her mother and father have proudly worked from the ground up, and raised 5 wonderful children at the same time.
My grandmother came from Malta through Elis Island as a young baby.
My grandfather, J. Paul Bergmoser was the man behind raising the money to rebuild the Statue of Liberty. Look it up. He has many other accomplishments that changed this nation I wont get into, you can read it for yourself online.
Immigration is indeed what makes America great. Butt this influx of unskilled illegal aliens is going to ruin it.
I've said in many previous posts, this isn't about Mexicans not assimilating and believe me native borns carry germs too. This to me is about the impracticability of and problems associated with unplanned and uncontrolled growth regardless of where the illegal immigrants are coming from. It isn't about the Mexicans. People are people and they want what you want. The vast majority are just looking for a decent life and a way to provide for their families. Please don't do "the browning of America" thing and make this about how bad the immigrants are. I don't think they're "bad". As a brown American those kind of argument is off putting.
You wonder why the Dems blocked the use of the word FELON in the Sensenbrenner bill? Simple. Whene the repubs began to get negative feedback about the use of such a strong term, they tried to back pedal. But the Dems realized that if they allowed the term Felon to be removed from the GOP bill, the GOP would then proceed to point the finger of blame at them and clain that the Dems watered down their bill. Typical slime tactic from the right, but then, would you expect anything decent or different?
blanket amnesty per the 1980's and a path to citizenship as is being proposed now, as long as that path is more than a monetary "fee" and back taxes. Fill out the paperwork, prove yourself and we will look at citizenship applications. To be granted citizenship solely because one is in country as of a certain date, NO, NO, NO!
- But recent polling almost universally shows that Americans support a path to citizenship - mmfa
It appears that mmfa should pay attention to its own readers and forget trying to emulate Carnac on the opinion of the American people.
Sixteen posts on this thread...and NOT ONE supporting any version of amnesty.
...don't make for a scientific poll.
30 posts and only one supporting amnesty.
I'd like to see mmfa poll their own readers and then see if they defend amnesty as the will of the people.
The current immigration debate needs to be seen for what it is...uninformed debate provoked by xenophobic politicians and media pundits to detract from the country's real problems; Iraq anyone? How about the deficit?
Believe it or not this "problem" will not go away until we all lose the ire we feel when we here the word "amnesty". What is needed now is some rational debate; remember that?
Firstly do some impartial research to get some hard facts - not rhetoric. Posters on this thread might not like the above poll results but I can guarantee they are way more scientific than their "feelings" about immigration.
Here's an interesting fact to get started: of the estimated 11 million "illegals", 35% are thought to be visa overstays. Now you may be surprised to know that overstaying a visa is not a crime, it is considered a tort. In effect you have to be sued by the government to be deported. Guess what? Now almost 4 million "illegals" are not criminals at all!
The solution is out there and I'm sure it will include more border security, better employer enforcement (something always curiously lacking by all administrations.. I wonder why?), deportation of recent arrivals and any with a criminal history AND a route to citizenship from people who have been here a while (with appropriate hurdles and fines), especially if their children were born here.
I'm a relatively fresh minted citizen (2 years ago after 18 years of legal residency.. and yes, I was a visa overstay!) and I was proud to become an American, but don't forget what made this country what it is today. Losing yourself in fear and loathing is just downright un-american!
The House Bill by the way, was supposed to be changed to take out the FELONY part but DEMOCRATS BLOCKED IT. Now ya gotta wonder why they did that?
See [link to mediamatters.org] As a liberal, your penance for being suckered by neocon spin is three nights volunteer work at the closest soup kitchen.
Fo what's the real problem with "fixing" immigration? Ultimately, the politicians really don't want to. They're split by so many lobbies so many different ways, you'd have an easier time reassembling Humpty Dumpty. Case in point...
I've seen some suggest emposing stiff penalties for employers of illegal immigrants. The theory is,dry up the jobs, dry up the illegals. That makes logical sense to me.
Actually, The Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) of 1986 did just that. Why hasn't it worked? [link to news.cincypost.com] offer a great summary:
Between 1999 and 2003, worksite enforcement operations were scaled back 95 percent by the Immigration and Naturalization Service, which subsequently was merged into the Homeland Security Department. The number of employers prosecuted for unlawfully employing immigrants dropped from 182 to four, and fines collected declined from $3.6 million to $212,000, according to federal statistics
In 1999, the United States initiated fines against 417 companies. In 2004, it issued fine notices to three.
The government's steady retreat from workplace enforcement in the 20 years since it became illegal to hire undocumented workers is the result of fierce political pressure from business lobbies, immigrant rights groups and members of Congress, according to law enforcement veterans. Punishing employers also was de-emphasized as the government recognized that it lacks the tools to do the job well, and as the Department of Homeland Security shifted resources to combat terrorism.
Fascinating, eh?
As for a border fence, when you consider doubts about the effectiveness and the costs, which would likely exceed $3 or 4 million per mile just for the intial installation ( [link to www.npr.org] ), it seems like a wasted investment. If it's only to address immigration, keep in mind that approximately 45% of illegal immigrants did not illegaly cross the border. They came here legally but then over-stayed. ( [link to www.npr.org] )
If the purpose of the fence is to secure our borders from terrorists, then a southern fence would be inadequate. You'd also need to fence the Canadian border, increase Coast Guard patrols along our coasts and increase air patrols (for low-flying planes) everywhere. I have no idea what that would cost.
Pardon if I'm going to seem pessimistic...but I see the discussion of solutions to illegal immigration as moot. Until politicians are willing to admit the causes and impacts, what's the point of pretending?
calls the san diego-tijuana fence "highly effective".
and then, (what is it, 11 million people?)... you will see what you have lost.
immigration issue. Close the borders, ENFORCE the labor laws and shil the felons....ie, ILLEGAL aliens back to their OWN country. And IT isn't a racial issue......if it were then even MEXICANS wouldn't be so upset about illegls crossing THEIR southern border!