Limbaugh baselessly claimed "the NSA domestic spying program" alerted U.S. officials to NYC bomb plot
SUMMARY: On his radio show, Rush Limbaugh baselessly asserted that "the NSA [National Security Agency] domestic spying program" alerted U.S. officials to a Lebanese plot to bomb New York City's mass transit system. In fact, neither the July 7 New York Daily News article, which broke the story and to which Limbaugh referred, nor any subsequent news report, has indicated that any of the communications made in connection with the purported plot involved a party inside the United States.
On the July 7 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, nationally syndicated radio show host Rush Limbaugh baselessly asserted that "the NSA [National Security Agency] domestic spying program" -- President Bush's authorization of the NSA to intercept communications of U.S. residents without court warrants in apparent violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) -- alerted U.S. officials to a Lebanese plot to bomb New York City's mass transit system. In fact, neither the July 7 New York Daily News article, which broke the story and to which Limbaugh referred, nor any subsequent news report, has indicated that any of the communications made in connection with the purported plot involved a party inside the United States.
While there have been reports that Assem Hammoud, one of the Lebanese men arrested, has visited the United States at least once, U.S. law enforcement officials have said that Hammoud's visit was considered unrelated to the New York bomb plot.
The New York Times reported on July 8 that, according to law enforcement officials, "The eight 'principal players' planning the attack ... had not visited New York -- or even the United States -- to conduct surveillance." But that same day, the Los Angeles Times reported that there were "some discrepancies" about whether Hammoud had been to the United States. The article noted that after FBI assistant director Mark J. Mershon stated that Hammoud had never been to the United States, and the Lebanese Broadcasting Corp. reported that Hammoud had been to New York and New Jersey "to survey possible targets," an FBI official "confirmed that Hammoud had visited the United States at least once" but stated that "we have no reason to believe it had anything to do with this plot." Moreover, none of the reports gave any indication that the communications intercepted by law enforcement involved anyone in the United States. From the Los Angeles Times:
By late Friday, there were some discrepancies about whether any of the alleged plotters had ever been to the United States. At the news conference, Mershon said the FBI believed that none of the principal players had visited the country.
But the Lebanese Broadcasting Corp. issued a report Friday saying Hammoud had traveled to New York and New Jersey on several occasions using a Canadian passport to survey possible targets.
The respected Beirut-based television station also said Hammoud was recruited into Al Qaeda in 1994 while he was in Canada.
Later, an FBI official confirmed that Hammoud had visited the United States at least once. But, the official added, "we have no reason to believe it had anything to do with this plot. So we don't see any nexus between that visit from several years ago and his activities."
The FBI official, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, would not say whether Hammoud had entered the country on a Canadian passport. The official also would not say whether the ongoing investigation extended into Canada, which has long been considered a haven for terrorists bent on launching attacks on U.S. soil.
The Associated Press similarly reported on July 9 that law enforcement officials said Hammoud's only documented visit to the United States "occurred long before authorities say the tunnel plot began to unfold":
The Lebanese man accused of masterminding a plot to destroy Hudson River train tunnels to bring death and flooding to lower Manhattan had visited the United States at least once [on] a trip to California six years ago, a federal law enforcement official said.
The official, speaking on condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing, said 31-year-old Assem Hammoud was in the U.S. on a legitimate visa for a brief stay, and that he was believed to have been visiting either family or friends. The visit occurred long before authorities say the tunnel plot began to unfold.
Authorities are still trying to trace Hammoud's steps during that trip but say they have no record of him going to New York. They have not ruled out the possibility that Hammoud had come to the country using different names.
The July 8 Los Angeles Times report noted that the original New York Daily News article had mistakenly stated that the Holland Tunnel was the intended target of the bomb plot: "At a press conference, authorities said the historic Holland Tunnel was not the intended target, as the Daily News had reported. Instead, they said the plot focused on bombing the commuter PATH trains."
From the July 7 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show, in which Limbaugh responded to a caller's assertion that Hammoud's arrest was "another benefit of the Iraq war." The caller stated that Hammoud's arrest "would not have happened if the Lebanese had not first pushed back on the Syrians," which they "would not have done that if we had not first attacked Iraq":
LIMBAUGH: All right, now, what was the plot? We are told -- and I'm now confused because [Sen. Chuck] Schumer [D-NY] said it was the Lincoln Tunnel. The New York Daily News, which broke this as an exclusive today, said the Holland Tunnel.
[...]
CALLER: Rush, did you realize -- well, you probably did -- the ringleader of that bomb plot in -- on the Holland Tunnel was arrested in Lebanon. That would not have happened if the Lebanese had not first pushed back the Syrians. And I guarantee you that the Lebanese would not have done that if we had not first attacked Iraq. Now, I think this is another benefit to the Iraq war.
LIMBAUGH: Yeah, the -- you call it the Khadafi affect.
CALLER: Yes.
LIMBAUGH: That's -- that's a good point, [caller]. In fact, all three of these suspects are in three different countries. This was the foreign surveillance that everybody -- the NSA domestic spying program where George Bush was spying on you and me, [caller].
CALLER: Exactly.
LIMBAUGH: It -- this was, this investigation has been under way for a full year.
CALLER: Amen.
LIMBAUGH: And these Democrats who oppose this -- they don't oppose it. They just want to use it as a political issue and say: "Bush is spying." But not one of them has suggested canceling the program.
CALLER: Well, I want to thank the president and our troops for one more benefit to that thing. Especially, New Yorkers ought to be thankful even more than anybody.
LIMBAUGH: That's an excellent point. I appreciate that, [caller]. Thank you so much.
When it's a DEMOCRATIC president spying illegally, Rush and his merry band of Republican whiners will go ape-shiit.
"This is outrageous! No President should have that much power! We have laws against this!"
I am onto their game. Corruption and misuse of power is fine and dandy so long as a Republican is the one doing it.
Rush's hypocrisy could fill a book. I wish someone would compile such a book. For example, I'd love to see someone search his archives for comments about the popular vote vs. electoral vote before the 2000 election. As I remember, he and the other parrots thought Bush would win the popular vote and Gore the electoral vote, and were calling for the abolition of the electoral college.
the American Spectator reported the NSA had been part of the operation.
"Our Treasury source wouldn't comment on the case. One DOJ source indicated that this case initially took off from monitoring of chat rooms that had been identified as havens for some of the plotters (that monitoring was undertaken in part by the NSA, and some of the monitoring required FISA court filings, something the the New York Times doesn't support, either). "
[link to www.spectator.org]
Just because the NSA was involved doesn't mean the warrantless domestic wiretapping program was involved. In fact, your post indicates that the wiretapping program wasn't involved because monitoring internet chat rooms wouldn't fall under that program, and neither would FISA filings.
If you're dumb enough to discuss your bomb plot in a chat room, you deserve to get caught.
yet a huge amount of terrorists (the Canadian jihadists) along with group of whacko and multiple arrests in Europe have involved internet chat or emails.
Your original link and the linked AS article mentions only internet monitoring and some FISA filings. It goes into some possible bank account monitoring, but the two main points are 1. Limbaugh was wrong in saying that this stoy involved non-FISA NSA wiretapping, and 2. Nobody has a problem wih wiretapping or bank account monitoring, just get a damn court order.
The NY Times would not be so interested in wiretapping or bank account monitoring if it was done legally and constitutionally.
the NY Times said no law had been broken and there are no damn warrants to be gotten because it was overseas. The Times purposely exposed a perfectly legal system in the hope of fishing for some kind of problem for the Bush administration. For their treason, they are getting extreme heat from the public.
Limbaugh may or may not have been wrong since we don't know if warrantless wiretapping was used or not. He didn't say were he got that information and so far it hasn't surfaced yet to the public.
If it's so damn "perfectly legal" why do so many legal experts think it's not?
He's obfuscating. He's making pronouncements about one program while slyly mentioning the other as well. Of course, the issue of legality was raised about the NSA domestic eavesdropping program. But that's not what Leather was referring to. He wants you all to go off on the foreign banking tangent, in order for his discredited "arguments" to have a semeblence of sense.
You've successfully diverted the topic to Internet chat board monitoring and bank monitoring. That's not what Limbaugh asserted. Nice try though.
Limbaugh pulled this out of his rectum, again. Look for this one to be rubbed in Mark Luther's face on a future Franken show.
That's not the program he's referring to. It's no surprise if the NSA was involved - what do you think NSA stands for?
why does MMFA say there was no communication within the U.S.?
...to show that what Rush was saying is wrong.
Seriously, man, you've got to try one of the modern helmets for your brain's sake.
maybe you ought to learn that FISA warrants are only used for US communication, so MMFA was wrong on that allegation.
No kidding Sherlock. Limbaugh obviously doesn't know that as he trotted out the NSA domestic spying program to explain the thwarted plot. MMFA makes no assertion that FISA should apply to the communication described, only that there was no evidence that Bush's efforts to eavesdrop on Americans was involved in the case.
Really, you need to try much harder.
are you just going to go on to another misdirection?
Really, you are just bring down the troll standards on this board. Try harder.
Even if it were to be shown that the NSA surveillance program had a hand in this, it would still remain to be shown that the information couldn't have been obtained going through the warrant process.
It's the oversight that's the issue, Limbaugh you idiot!!!
"When it's a DEMOCRATIC president spying illegally, Rush and his merry band of Republican whiners will go ape-shiit."
Special Prosecutors were fine and dandy when they were hounding Clinton but were done away with under Bush. The day after a Democrat is sworn in as President (January 2009) you can bet the RW will be screaming to restrict any and all such "abuses" of executive power.
...doesn't justify gutting the Constitution.
You, sir, are not a patriot.
Not only does he spew a yet to be substantiated point about ties to the NSA program, but he also has to spread baloney about the Democrats:
"They just want to use it as a political issue and say: 'Bush is spying.' But not one of them has suggested canceling the program."
Well, he may be right about Democrats not wanting to cancel the NSA program. But he intentionally misleads by simply accusing them of saying "Bush is spying" when a more accurate characterization would be "Bush is spying without a WARRANT."
He conveniently leaves out that Democrats want the program to be run the way it was designed, WITH WARRANTS. They want to maintain checks and balances. They want to preserve one of the basic principles of our democratic system. They want to put their foot down before the seeds of dictatorship can take root.
one of these alleged terrorist plots, whether its this one or the "Miami 7", I keep thinking about Bush's line about the Iraq War and terrorism: "We're fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here."
But, I figure with all these alleged "plots" that keep popping up, we must not be doing too good of a job fighting them "over there," not if they keep surfacing "over here" . . .
.. I mean, I imagine there are KKK or neo-Nazi groups that are coming with plots just as sinister. And I'm always struck when there was very little media coverage of the Jewish terrorist in Florida that was planning to blow up several mosques.
who killed babies to help the 'Turner Diaries" series of juvinile fiction come true. A real traitor to America
reading anyone saying McVeigh was a hero.
What he got was too good for him.
Bo Gritz. A bunch of John Birchers and Michigan Militia folks. There were plenty of people who cheered on McVeigh, and they are extreme right-wing. Heck, Coulter wanted him to simply change his target.
You're a smart guy.
--"LIMBAUGH: And these Democrats who oppose this -- they don't oppose it. They just want to use it as a political issue and say: "Bush is spying."
A reminder that Democrats are NOT against surveillance ("spying"), but demand that Bush do it WITHIN THE LAW.
for the compliment.
For Leatherhelmet:
"The Times exposed a perfectly legal system in the hope of fishing for some kind of problem for the Bush administration. For their treason, they are getting extreme heat from the public." - LH
One more time, slowly: The Times did not commit treason by publishing this story. WHOEVER LEAKED IT, DID. And since this was done with at least tacit approval by the Bush administration, I hesitate to call it "treason." As ScottJ pointed out, no one is questioning the LEGALITY of bank-tracing, provided it is done WITHIN THE LAW. BTW, the only people giving "extreme heat" to the NYT are a few off-their-rocker RW talking heads who want the Times' editors in gas chambers.
ScottJ, you're right, plenty of people thought Tim McVeigh was some hero - and he himself had some strange heroes; wasn't the day he picked for the OKC bombing {April 19} the anniversary of Ruby Ridge or Waco?
This aspiring terrorist was arrested April 27th. Why were we not told about this April 27th?
Why is this three-month-old story trotted out--and treated like it's up-to-the-minute news?
Mm, could it be that Bush got no bounce from Zarqawi, so they trotted out the Miami 7 jokers, and when the public refused to change their opinion, they brought out these guys?
Neither of these groups were Al Qaeda--neither of them had weapons, or resources, or had any expertise. And both these groups hadb been under surveillance for a long time.
The Miami 7 wanted terrorist uniforms from Al Qaeda. These guys plotted in an internet chat room.
And we're supposed to be so scared of these guys that we'll give up our civil liberties?
And April 27th?
Why do I get the funny feeling this is the best the FBI has in their pockets?
I have a feeling that we will be increasingly inundated with these foiled plots no matter how insignificant (like the loony toon bunch in FL) the closer we get to the mid-term elections. Hey exploiting the terrorist threat worked so well for this administration who by the way wants to reduce funding to the true high terrorist threat cities and dispersed those funds for what I suspect are political paybacks to municipal spheres that have been a strong hold of support for the administration. Hmm, let’s hope this exploitation doesn’t work this time.
Rush seems to have spent too long on the junk. Notice how many of his callers have to give him his talking points? I hear it almost every time I catch his show, the Oxymoron's sputtering and stammering along trying to make sense of his own BS, when a dittohead calls in with some irrational explanation or idea they,ve been incubating in their trailer all week.
Rush jumps on it like a life preserver- "That's a great point, caller!"
It's like he's been training these flying monkeys in non-critical thinking for years, and now that he's lost his noodles, they call in and finish his job for him. Scary!