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Media touted foiled UK terror plot as political win for Bush, ignoring ample evidence of White House, GOP failure to protect against on-board explosives

August 16, 2006 7:44 pm ET

SUMMARY: Numerous media figures have asserted that the foiled plot to attack several U.S.-bound flights from Britain benefits President Bush and the Republican Party. But in order to make the assertion, they omit evidence that both the Bush administration and congressional Republicans have failed to sufficiently protect against such attacks.

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In the days since British authorities foiled a plot to attack several U.S.-bound flights using liquid explosives, numerous media figures have asserted that this news benefits President Bush and the Republican Party, as Media Matters for America documented. But in order to make this assertion, they omit critical information about the GOP's handling of terrorism-related issues that, if highlighted, could actually produce the opposite effect in the polls. Specifically, they ignore the ample evidence that both the Bush administration and congressional Republicans have failed to sufficiently protect against such attacks, despite repeated warnings from terrorism experts, Democrats, and the 9-11 Commission.

Since the news of the British terror arrests broke on August 10, many news outlets have reported that the aviation security system in the U.S. remains vulnerable to attacks involving liquid or plastic explosives. Several outlets have placed this continued vulnerability in greater context by noting that terrorists attempted to carry out a similar plot more than a decade ago. From an August 11 article -- headlined "U.S. playing catch-up on liquid-explosive threat" -- by Houston Chronicle staff writers Eric Berger and Lise Olsen:

Twelve years after an al-Qaida terrorist blew a hole in a Boeing 747 with a liquid explosive, the government has not significantly upgraded its passenger-screening devices to prevent it from happening again.

Ramzi Yousef, a master al-Qaida bomb maker, boarded a Philippine Airlines flight in December 1994 with a few ounces of nitroglycerin in an empty contact lens solution bottle. Using wires from a Casio watch, he built a small bomb in the lavatory and placed it beneath a seat. The bomb exploded on the flight's next leg, killing one and forcing the airplane to make an emergency landing.

Yousef carried out this bombing as a trial run for a wider series of attacks -- known as "Operation Bojinka" -- that would have employed stronger explosives and targeted numerous planes over the course of two days in 1995. Law enforcement authorities uncovered the larger plot when a fire broke out in Yousef's apartment in the Philippines. But as an August 11 San Francisco Chronicle article noted, the London plotters "may have obtained the similar sophisticated liquid explosives that were to be used in the Operation Bojinka. The explosives, which can be hidden in a small bottle, like those used for contact lens solution, are hard to detect, and were originally developed by Yousef, whose uncle, Mohammed, was the chief architect of the 9/11 attacks." The article further noted that "one of the hallmarks of Osama bin Laden's followers is that if they don't succeed once, they will try again."

In the years after the foiled Bojinka plot, proposals came before Congress to increase funding for the development of technology to detect liquid explosives. Then, as one Reagan-era national security noted in the Houston Chronicle article, "[T]he issue just sort of fell off the radar screen."

Following the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, the government once again focused on the need for more effective aviation security. In November 2001, Congress passed the Aviation and Transportation Security Act. The bill federalized the U.S. airport security system and mandated numerous other improvements in aviation security, among them the authorization of $50 million in annual funding for the "acceleration of research, development, testing, and evaluation of new screening technology for carry-on items ... [and] persons boarding aircraft or entering secure areas, including detection of weapons, explosives, and components of weapons of mass destruction." At the signing ceremony on November 19, Bush stated, "Today, we take permanent and aggressive steps to improve the security of our airways. ... The law I will sign should give all Americans greater confidence when they fly."

Since the passage of the legislation, however, the administration has devoted the bulk of its aviation security resources to preventing similar attacks as those that occurred on September 11. Meanwhile, the government has failed to prepare for "new threats" -- such as the use of liquid explosives -- as an August 12 New York Times article noted:

The Department of Homeland Security has taken significant steps since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks to make it much harder to turn a plane into a flying weapon. But a nearly obsessive focus on the previous attacks may have prevented the federal government from combating new threats effectively, terrorism experts and former agency officials say.

The arrests overseas this week of people accused of planning to use an explosive that would be undetectable at airports illustrates the significant security gaps, they said.

While the department has hardened cockpit doors and set up screening for guns and knives, it has done far too little to protect against plastic and liquid explosives, bombs in air cargo and shoulder-fired missiles, the experts say.

Indeed, the administration and the GOP-led Congress have repeatedly diverted or opposed funding intended for the research and development (R&D) of explosive detection technology:

  • At an October 16, 2003, meeting of the House Aviation Subcommittee, Rep. John L. Mica (R-FL), noted that "very little" of the $50 million in R&D funding authorized in the Aviation and Transportation Security Act had actually been used for that purpose. Admiral James M. Loy, then-administrator of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA), confirmed that the figures cited by Mica were "accurate."
  • In fiscal year 2003, TSA transferred "about $61 million, more than half of its $110 million R&D appropriation, to operational needs, such as personnel cost for screeners," according to a September 2004 report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO). The cut delayed the development of "a device to detect weapons, liquid explosives, and flammables in containers found in carry-on baggage or passengers' effects, as well as the development and testing of a walk-through portal for detecting traces of explosives on passengers." Tony Fainberg, a former manager of DHS' explosive detection research program, recently noted that new detection devices "could have been tested sooner" if this diversion had not occurred.
  • As recently as July, the administration proposed diverting $6 million intended for the development of explosives detection technology to cover a shortfall elsewhere in the DHS budget. The ranking GOP and Dem members of the House Homeland Security Appropriations committee rejected it flat out, as did their Senate counterparts. Moreover, some Republicans in Congress have thwarted attempts by Democrats to boost funding for the research and deployment of explosion detection devices at airport checkpoints:
  • During the House Homeland Security Committee's mark-up of the DHS spending bill in April 2005, Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-OR) proposed an amendment "to create a checkpoint security fund to provide $250 million already authorized for new passenger screening equipment." Republican committee members voted the measure down, as well as several others intended to increase funding for aviation security technology. According to an April 29, 2005, article in Aviation Daily, Rep. John Linder (R-GA) forcefully criticized the amendments and said that having an aircraft blown out of the sky would be a tragedy but not a catastrophe.
  • The Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act -- passed by Congress in December 2004 -- authorized $250 million in funding for the TSA to research and deploy explosive detection systems. During consideration of the Homeland Security Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2006, Rep. Bennie G. Thompson (D-MS), ranking member on the House Homeland Security Committee, moved to substitute a version of the legislation that would have ensured that the government met this funding commitment. House Republicans defeated Thompson's motion by a vote of 230-196 on May 18, 2005.

An August 12 article by Associated Press staff writer John Solomon further detailed how DHS has both impeded the development of new explosive detection technology and failed to use the resources at its disposal:

Lawmakers and recently retired Homeland Security officials say they are concerned the department's research and development effort is bogged down by bureaucracy, lack of strategic planning and failure to use money wisely.

The department failed to spend $200 million in research and development money from past years, forcing lawmakers to rescind the money this summer.

The administration also was slow to start testing a new liquid explosives detector that the Japanese government provided to the United States earlier this year.

[...]

Japan has been using the liquid explosive detectors in its Narita International Airport in Tokyo and demonstrated the technology to U.S. officials at a conference in January, the Japanese Embassy in Washington said.

Solomon also reported that Tony Fainberg had "strongly urged" DHS to deploy explosive detection devices to foreign airports, "but was rebuffed." Said Fainberg, "It is not that expensive. There was no resistance from any country that I was aware of, and yet we didn't deploy it."

In the wake of the recently foiled terror plot in Britain, numerous lawmakers and terrorism experts have criticized the administration's failure to undertake additional measures to protect against the use of on-board explosives. Rep. DeFazio stated that this threat "has been consistently ignored." Susan and Joseph Trento, authors of an upcoming book on aviation security, wrote in the Los Angeles Times, "After spending $20 billion on aviation security, we still have not developed a defense against ideas terrorists had six years before 9/11." And 9-11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton said of the plot: "It's precisely the kind of thing that we have talked about again and again since 9-11. ... And we have said again and again that we simply must handle this with a much greater sense of urgency than we have in the past."

Indeed, the 9-11 Commission, national security experts and Democrats such as DeFazio have repeatedly warned of this threat in the nearly five years since the attacks:

  • Exactly one month after the September 11 attacks, DeFazio suggested at a hearing of the House Aviation Subcommittee that the government should ban liquids on airplanes until a checkpoint screening system had been implemented to detect liquid explosives. DeFazio said, "I have suggested this previously to the FAA, that we prohibit individuals carrying liquids on board planes, just prohibit it. Then when we have what we believe is reliable security in every on-board screening device in the United States of America, then we can go back to allowing people to carry liquids on board."
  • At a May 12, 2004, hearing of the House Infrastructure and Border Subcommittee, DeFazio cited Yousef's foiled 1995 plot and warned that terrorists often "repeat patterns." "They came back to World Trade Towers," he said. "I think they will come back. Is it suicidal belts that people wear on the planes? Is it checked bags? Is it cargo, as Mr. [Rep. Ed] Markey [D-MA] talked about? We don't know. But we need to be defending against all those things."
  • On the July 19, 2004, edition of MSNBC's Scarborough Country, terrorism expert and former State Department official Larry Johnson noted that "one of the [aviation security] gaps still in place is that we haven't come up with effective detector at screening checkpoint for liquid explosives."
  • The 9-11 Commission's final report, released on August 21, 2004, stated that the "TSA and the Congress must give priority attention to improving the ability of screening checkpoints to detect explosives on passengers. As a start, each individual selected for special screening should be screened for explosives."
  • On August 24, 2004, two Chechen suicide bombers detonated explosives while flying on separate aircraft in Russia. The attacks killed 90 passengers, and traces of the explosive hexogen were found in the wreckage. "It's a matter of time before what happened in Russia happens in Australia, the UK or the United States," Chris Yates, aviation security editor for Jane's Transport, told USA Today.
  • In an August 25, 2004, hearing of the House Aviation Subcommittee, 9-11 commissioner John F. Lehman noted that "the very real threat" of suicide bombers on aircrafts. He said, "Now that the whole protocol of dealing with hijackings makes the concept of gaining control of an airplane far more difficult, the likelihood of suicide bombing is commensurately higher. So we need to, again, not obsess on that problem, but make sure we have that covered as well as we have the other issues."
  • During the same August 25, 2004, hearing, DeFazio reiterated that on-board explosives represent "one of the most extraordinary points of vulnerability." DeFazio even criticized the 9-11 Commission for not further emphasizing the danger posed by such attacks. He said, "The commission fell quite short of concerns already publicly expressed by this committee numerous times regarding the vulnerability to explosives on board planes. And I really think explosives are the major threat."
  • At July 19, 2005, hearing of the House Economic Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Cybersecurity Subcommitee, DeFazio again brought up the Yousef plot. He said, "[W]e haven't equipped our people at the checkpoint to detect the bomb that he used, which was a liquid-based. ... And I'm concerned that there are patterns out there. They came back after the World Trade Center. I'm worried that someone else's going to come back."
  • In a follow-up report assessing the government's response to the 9-11 Commission report, the 9-11 Public Discourse Project noted "minimal progress" on its recommendation that the administration "give priority attention to improving the ability of screening checkpoints to detect explosives on passengers."
  • The 9-11 Public Discourse Project gave the administration a "C" grade on its efforts to "improve airline screening checkpoints to detect explosives." The report read, "While more advanced screening technology is being developed, Congress needs to provide the funding for, and TSA needs to move as expeditiously as possible with, the appropriate installation of explosives detection trace portals at more of the nation's commercial airports."
  • 9-11 Commission member James R. Thompson decried the ongoing "vulnerability to onboard explosions" in a December 16, 2005, Chicago Tribune op-ed: "Most Americans take it for granted that airline security problems have been fixed, or that terrorists will not target our aviation system again. Both assumptions are wrong. The enemy will find and exploit any soft spots in our security. Though we have hardened airliners against hijacking, they remain vulnerable to onboard explosions, such as the dual Chechen suicide bombings that brought down two Russian airliners in August 2004."
  • As part of a 2006 GAO investigation, government officials were "able to carry materials needed to make a similar homemade bomb through security screening at 21 airports" in the U.S. 9-11 Commission co-chairman Tom Kean responded: "I'm appalled. I'm dismayed and, yes, to a degree, it does surprise me. Because I thought the Department of Homeland Security was making some progress on this, and evidently they're not."
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    • Author by bravenewworld (August 16, 2006 8:20 pm ET)
         

      Apparently I was absent when the pipe was being passed around. I cannot understand how so many in the media can willfully give credit to Bush for even the least plausible reasons and never hold him responsible for things that go wrong. What's in it for them? How can they be so blind and out of touch?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by redking75687 (August 16, 2006 10:11 pm ET)
           

        They just like helping Bush get away with crimes....makes them feel like accomplices. Living sociopathically vicariously.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by mefirst (August 16, 2006 8:49 pm ET)
         

      when a guy like chuck roberts of cnn gets away with what is essentially a false apology. roberts implied that he had phrased it badly. but his statement was: "might some argue, as some have, that lamont is the al qaeda candidate?" in other words, it's a legitimate debatable question.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by lostlogic (August 16, 2006 8:57 pm ET)
           

        I thought it was a clasy apology and had even more punch since the person he owed the opology was there to receive it. I was impressed that he faced it head on rather then just slipping it in to some off topic segment.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by mefirst (August 17, 2006 7:39 am ET)
             

          that he had to apologize face to face for such a remark. as for classy, i don't know what that has to do with the fact that the remark was glossed over. he made a remark that clearly called a candidate for the senate a traitor.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by tex (August 16, 2006 10:01 pm ET)
         

      England did POLICE WORK to make this bust. The Bush Republicans have RIDICULED critics for suggesting that the "War on Terror" should be more of a law enforcement job than a call for invasion or war. Kerry in particular was excoriated for claiming that good intelligence, cooperation, and law enforcement methods would work better for ferreting out terrorist activities.

      So now, Bush should get CREDIT when the methods he ridiculed WORKED???

      England's methods followed THEIR LAWS, as written. There is no suggestion that they went outside the law in order to gain their information. Yet, Bush claims that HE cannot be successful unless HE is allowed to IGNORE (break)our laws and violate our Constitution. How can BUSH be praised, when England shows that success can be had WHILE staying within the law, a concept Bush REJECTS?

      Does Bush tell the Brits that we are fighting terrorists in Iraq to keep from having to fight them "at home"? If so, isn't this a laughable lie, considering the Brits have been hit since 9/11, and are obviously no safer as a result of Bush's "plan" to bottle up terrorist activity? And if NOT, WHY not?

      Obviously, the desperate Republicans will claim ANYTHING AT ALL that happens as a "victory" for their side, but hasn't the practice of claiming credit for things they had nothing to do with become so transparent that NOBODY would buy it?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by lostlogic (August 16, 2006 11:02 pm ET)
           

        This is an excellent post.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by cb (August 17, 2006 10:01 am ET)
           

        The President has never claimed he cannot be successful unless he is allowed to ignore our laws. The UK operates under a completely different set of laws. They don’t have the ACLU tying their hands behind there back in their efforts to stop terrorist. In the UK wire tapping terrorist, holding suspects without charges for an extended period of time while being investigated, sneak & peak searches, tracking banking and financial transactions, and terrorist profiling are all perfectly acceptable and are methods that obviously work. And if you folks still believe that fighting terrorism is a law enforcement issue, well, there’s really no hope for you! The democrats built the wall between the police and other government agencies tasked with the job of protecting America virtually stopping coordination and sharing of information that could have prevented 9/11. Liberal democrats can’t be trusted to protect America. Period!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by parcival (August 17, 2006 10:36 am ET)
             

          Hey, bud. You remind me of my father in law. If it weren't for the ACLU, you wouldn't have the right or ability to say the things you do.

          So you're part of the faction that would willingly give up our liberties in the fight against a contrived enemy. Every totalitarian state has used the same tactic. And you're endorsing it?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by cb (August 17, 2006 11:03 am ET)
               

            Your father-in-law must be part of the enlightened faction that believes that the enemy we face is real, not contrived, and that they are determined to kill us all in the name of their religion. He must be of those who believe that constitutional rights should not be bestowed upon enemy combatants captured on the battler field like the ACLU wants to do. He must be one of those who believe that once your dead you have no civil liberties. Islamic fascists are our enemy. They can’t be reasoned with. They can’t be talked to and persuaded. They don’t care about anything but killing those who do follow Allah. Your father–in-law sounds like a person you should listen to. I would suggest taking your head out of the sand first.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by cb (August 17, 2006 11:50 am ET)
                 

              Do NOT follow Allah.

              Report Abuse
            • Author by blueblood (August 17, 2006 2:14 pm ET)
                 

              You conflate disparate poltical groups in the Middle East with vastly different agendas as one in the same under the name "terrorists." Certainly some of these groups have terrorsit military wings but such sects are not the sole aspect of these groups. Organizations like Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Muslim Brotherhood come to mind. These groups arose to combat grievances in specific regions of the Middle East (Hamas to counter Israeli occupation in Gaza and the West Bank, Hezbollah to counter Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon, Muslim Brotherhood to combat the totalitarian, pro-west dictators in Egypt).

              In the cases of Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood, they were created by Israel to combat the ostensibly pro-Soviet leanings of nationalist governments of Nasser and the PLO. Robert Dreyfuss details this in his book "Devil's Game: How the U.S. Helped Unleash Fundamentalist Islam."

              I did you favor CB. Perhaps in the future your postings will have more substance and reason as opposed to the uninformed hysteria of which they now consist.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by cb (August 17, 2006 3:56 pm ET)
                   

                You say “You conflate disparate political groups in the Middle East with vastly different agendas as one in the same under the name "terrorists." Certainly some of these groups have terrorist military wings but such sects are not the sole aspect of these groups.”

                I say any group that has a terrorist military wing cannot be allowed to operate anywhere under any circumstance. I guess, by your post, you think it’s alright for these groups to exist as long as they have some sort of socially benevolent tendencies or just don’t spend ALL their time blowing up innocent people for their political or religious cause.

                Report Abuse
            • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 4:01 pm ET)
                 

              "He must be of those who believe that constitutional rights should not be bestowed upon enemy combatants captured on the battler field like the ACLU wants to do." -CB

              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

              Please provide a link to demonstrate what you are talking about.

              Thanks.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by cb (August 17, 2006 4:32 pm ET)
                   

                [link to www.nyclu.org]

                ACLU/NYCLU Call Victory for Right to Counsel in Enemy Combatant Case Positive Step WASHINGTON, December 4, 2002 -- The American Civil Liberties Union today called a federal court ruling upholding the right to counsel for so-called "enemy combatants" a clear rebuke of the Bush Administration and a victory for civil liberties. "This ruling is a crucial rejection of the Bush Administration's claim of almost unbridled power to unilaterally detain American citizens and hold them indefinitely and incommunicado," said Lucas Guttentag, Director of the ACLU's Immigrant's Rights Project and one of the lawyers who filed the ACLU's brief in support of Padilla. "The court rightly ruled that Padilla is entitled to his day in court with his lawyer to challenge the government's detention."

                "The decision is a critical first step to providing a check on the government's use of the enemy combatant designation," Guttentag added.

                con't...

                Report Abuse
                • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 6:56 pm ET)
                     

                  Your original post made no mention the ACLU was trying to get a right to cousel for an American citizen. Quite a sharp distinction I would think.

                  Padilla is a citizen (not just an enemy combatant of which, most are foreigners) and is thus entitled to full Constitutional protections including Right to Counsel just like you and me.

                  "the ACLU continues to believe that American citizens cannot be detained indefinitely without charges or trial, even if ultimately classified as an enemy combatant."

                  Doesn't sound so radical if you are familiar with the Constitution and it's ammendments.

                  Your original contention was:

                  "He must be of those who believe that constitutional[sic] rights should not be bestowed upon enemy combatants captured on the battler[sic] field like the ACLU wants to do." -CB

                  You failed to provide any proof of your statement. Right to counsel is not the same thing as "Constitutional rights" as any first year poly sci student can tell you. Besides that, Padilla wasn't even "captured on the battle[]field" either for that matter.

                  Report Abuse
          • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 4:25 pm ET)
               

            Sues the City of New York for wanting to RANDOMLY check bagage, yet a sign at the NYCLU buiding wanred people they reserve the right to search bags of all people entering. WHY??????

            Report Abuse
            • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 6:58 pm ET)
                 

              Please cite a decent source for your argument so we can know what you are talking about.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 7:15 pm ET)
                   

                and if this is not good enough, I will call them and ask.

                [link to www.shinesforall.com]

                Report Abuse
                • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 7:53 pm ET)
                     

                  You are aware of the difference between public and private property and which one is Constitutionally protected?

                  Is the subway in NY private property or public?

                  Besides that, I don't see where the NYACLU is responsible for the policy of the apparently private building where it leases space?

                  Weak argument.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 8:08 pm ET)
                       

                    if you say so.........

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 8:10 pm ET)
                       

                    it is the policy of the ACLU nationwide. Not the buidings....

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 8:26 pm ET)
                         

                      "it is the policy of the ACLU nationwide. Not the buidings" --- evillib1727

                      +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                      Sorry, your source didn't say that. Where did you derive that info from?

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 9:18 pm ET)
                           

                        have put all my eggs in one basket. The Manahatten, and NewYork say so. And for you, I will do more research to find out what others, for you!

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 10:00 pm ET)
                             

                          Your original source said nothing of the sort. Please provide a legitimate source for your claim so we can see for ourselves.

                          I am very unimpressed with your argument thus far.

                          The reason I ask you for your source is that most arguments made against the ACLU are complete fabrications and fall apart immediately on closer inspection. I don't know why, but many people consider it some kind of perverse sport to baselessly smear this fine organization.

                          Thanks. I will be waiting for your legitimate source.

                          Report Abuse
        • Author by worrierking (August 17, 2006 10:52 am ET)
             

          It's not the Democrats or Liberals who built the wall between the police and the policed. That wall is usually referred to as The Bill of Rights. You remember, it's part of the US Constitution.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by cb (August 17, 2006 11:26 am ET)
               

            The “wall” I'm describing are the laws enacted by democrats during the Clinton administration that said if a crime or suspicion of a crime was discovered by say the CIA, FBI, etc., during an investigation, that information could not be shared with police to make an arrest and vise versa. Apparently, in the mind of liberals, that wouldn’t be fair to the criminals. How silly. This wall of insane laws has nothing to do with the bill of rights. Liberals are the first ones to tie the hands of law enforcement when it comes to protecting America and the first ones to complain when something bad happens.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 3:54 pm ET)
                 

              "The “wall” I'm describing are the laws enacted by democrats during the Clinton administration that said if a crime or suspicion of a crime was discovered by say the CIA, FBI, etc., during an investigation, that information could not be shared with police to make an arrest and vise versa." --CB

              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

              First of all if you are referring to the FISA revision (the only legislation that I am aware of that even remotely related to this issue), where does it state anything like that? If not, what are you referring to? What "laws" would that be?

              Secondly, I believe "The Wall" pertains to memos by Clinton administration Justice Department lawyers that attempted to outline procedures and policies for sharing information specifically in regards to FISA, but were wrongly interpreted by agencies in some of the ways you mention above. At least according to my reading of the 9/11 Commission Report.

              These policies were originally written to prevent some of the problems that arose from the Aldrich Ames spy ring investigation.

              Aldrich Ames almost walked free apparently because existing procedures were not deftly followed. The memos did not change the law at all. It was an attempt to make sure government worked within the law. The execution by the Clinton Administration can definitely be faulted, but what you said was a definite mischaracterization of the intent of the memos.

              BTW, four years after 9/11 and the 9/11 Public Discourse Project that is following up on the 9/11 Commission's recommendations has concluded just in December about the current state of Government-wide information sharing:

              "Government-wide information sharing [gets a grade of:] D Designating individuals to be in charge of information sharing is not enough. They need resources, active presidential backing, policies and procedures in place that compel sharing, and systems of performance evaluation that appraise personnel on how they carry out information sharing."

              It turns out that many of these agencies are predisposed to not sharing information as it is. Even Fearless Leader hasn't fixed it almost five years later.

              Report Abuse
        • Author by tex (August 17, 2006 1:19 pm ET)
             

          You say, "your whole post is bogus!"

          RESPONSE: Quite a claim. Can you back it up?

          You say, "The President has never claimed he cannot be successful unless he is allowed to ignore our laws."

          RESPONSE: Over 700 "signing statements" contradict your claim. Bush constantly claims "special powers" because "we are at war". When the Supreme Court weighs in (as they did on GitMo), the Prez finds that he is WRONG, and that the LAW prevents the actions he has taken.

          You say, "The UK operates under a completely different set of laws."

          RESPONSE: Which they FOLLOW. Bush doesn't follow OUR laws. What's your point?

          You say, "They don’t have the ACLU tying their hands behind there (sic) back in their efforts to stop terrorist."

          RESPONSE: Yeah, that CONSTITUTION is inconvenient to tyrants and despots.

          You say, "In the UK wire tapping terrorist, holding suspects without charges for an extended period of time while being investigated, sneak & peak (sic) searches, tracking banking and financial transactions, and terrorist profiling are all perfectly acceptable and are methods that obviously work."

          RESPONSE: ALL the above are both available to American law enforcement, and approved by Democrats, as long as the LAW is followed. Individually, the above practices can be debated (for example, the GOP stood strongly in the way of enacting law that would have opened offshore banking to scrutiny ... that would have upset their Wealthy Corporate sponsors, so it was blocked BY THE GOP).

          You say, "And if you folks still believe that fighting terrorism is a law enforcement issue, well, there’s really no hope for you!"

          RESPONSE: Uh, this latest UK "bust" was ALL Law Enforcement, and as you say, it seems to have WORKED. Conversely, Bush's WAR strategy is NOT working at all, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, with Hezbollah, anywhere. Is there any hope you might return to reality?

          You say, "The democrats built the wall between the police and other government agencies tasked with the job of protecting America virtually stopping coordination and sharing of information that could have prevented 9/11."

          RESPONSE: The GOP took control of Congress in 1994, EIGHT YEARS before 9/11. What year did the Dems do this "wall building", and how did they manage to do it with the GOP in control?

          You say, "Liberal democrats can’t be trusted to protect America. Period!"

          RESPONSE: And like THAT, you dismiss FDR, HST, JFK, LBJ and even Bill Clinton. You remember Clinton ... he was the guy who, when he used the military against terrorists, the Rightwing were wailing about "Wag the Dog". So much for "protecting America", eh?

          Dismissed!

          Report Abuse
      • Author by ajozz (August 17, 2006 10:51 am ET)
           

        If we only had the same audacity to have the same type of laws here in the US that the Brits have to protect their citizens. We can't because those laws would "revert" back the civil liberties we "enjoy" and destroy what many "libertarians" die to achieve (sure). Please realize that many of the liberals would never allow the proven successful law enforcement methods that worked in the UK, to be enforced here in the US. Instead let's just continue to complain about "how vulnerable" we are against a terrorist attacks, that will keep me safe and sound (sure).

        Report Abuse
        • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 3:57 pm ET)
             

          You are doing nothing, but stating sweeping generalizations. Be specific as to what you mean by "same type of laws here in the US that the Brits have to protect their citizens." as well as the rest of your statments.

          You should also cite the sources for your statments if you indeed wish to have an intelligent discussion.

          Thanks.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by ajozz (August 17, 2006 4:42 pm ET)
               

            here are my sources.. A> [link to jurist.law.pitt.edu] B> [link to jurist.law.pitt.edu] C> [link to www.caleidoscop.org.ro] Please provide the intelligent sources you draw from to make your points (so we can continue on this smart discussion)

            Report Abuse
            • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 6:11 pm ET)
                 

              No words from the penut gallery!

              Open-mind, he supplierd you with the sources, where is the rebuttle?

              Report Abuse
            • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 7:46 pm ET)
                 

              In the articles you cited, Chertoff and Gonzales were extremely vague as to how they would change US law to be more like the Brits.

              Chertoff apparently wants more electronic surveillance and detentions, while Gonzales would apparently like longer detention times and a side-by-side comparisson with UK terror laws.

              Both Chertoff and Gonzalez were extremely vague. I couldn't find anything in the links you provided that detailed what Chertoff meant specifically by increased electronic surveillance and increased detentions.

              I assume Chertoff (as well as Gonzales) were both referring to the ability in the UK to hold "terror suspects" for up to 28 days (after 2 days, it must be approved by a judge).

              Assuming Constitutional guarantees would be in place for American citizens and there is a high degree of judicial oversight, I would not be opposed to such legislation here.

              I cite the links you provided above for your reference.

              Report Abuse
    • Author by februsmax9273 (August 16, 2006 11:43 pm ET)
         

      No Bomb Left Behind

      Report Abuse
    • Author by oscar the grouch (August 17, 2006 12:20 am ET)
         

      we can always find the negative. Ain't it great? We can't profile, we can't secure the borders, we can't call the terrorists what they really are, but we will be the first in line at the "hanging" when the next attack succeeds anywhere in the world except the Middle East.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by parcival (August 17, 2006 10:39 am ET)
           

        You mean like the Contras? Like the Bay of Pigs? Like the CIA sponsored forces in Guatemala? Chile? Colombia? etc. etc. etc.?

        Let's not be naive. Terrorism has been a tool of US policy for decades. Someone else hits us with it and now it's NEW?

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        • Author by ajozz (August 17, 2006 11:51 am ET)
             

          let's review... Contras....fighting against Sandinistas in Nicaragua Bay of pigs....attempt to oust Fidel in cuba basically the US has been on right side of the fight in all the cases you mentioned...unless you side with the communists regimes that do not respect human rights and or civil liberties or anything that does not fit the agenda of the Goverment. (examples like Cuba and Venezuela given to support my comments)

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          • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 1:17 pm ET)
               

            1. Do people everywhere have the right to choose their own leaders? Yes or No?

            2. Does the US have the right to choose other country's leaders for them? Yes or No?

            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

            Please explain your answers. So far from your posts it looks like "no" to number 1 and "yes" to number 2.

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            • Author by ajozz (August 17, 2006 4:16 pm ET)
                 

              >1. Do people everywhere have the right to choose their own >leaders? Yes or No? depends on the country. Not every country holds elections and other's like Cuba and Venezuela don't allow an equal platform for other political parties to participate in the elections...(in essense in the US only having equal participation from only 2 parties is not appropriate...ballot wise there may be multiple choices but are not available everywhere, and in debates only 2 candidates appear)

              >2. Does the US have the right to choose other country's >leaders for them? Yes or No? No. But we may support whomever our elected leaders decide to support. I'm not at all shocked or ashamed that this country tries to support democratic regimes around the world.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by open_mind (August 17, 2006 8:23 pm ET)
                   

                "I'm not at all shocked or ashamed that this country tries to support democratic regimes around the world." --ajozz

                +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                You might want to crack open a history book and read about these "democratic regimes around the world".

                Many times our country has supported groups that have worked against the democratically elected governments in order to install dictators that were simply more favorable to the US or US business interests.

                "Colonel Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán was president of Guatemala from 1951 to 1954, when he was ousted in a coup d'état organized by the US Central Intelligence Agency, known as Operation PBSUCCESS, and was replaced by a military junta, headed by Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas, plunging the country into chaos and long-lasting political turbulence."

                ...

                "In March 1951, Arbenz assumed the presidency after Guatemala's first-ever universal-suffrage election, marking the first peaceful transition of power in Guatemala's history"

                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                "Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh, (19 May 1882 - 5 March 1967) was the democratically elected[1] prime minister of Iran from 1951 to 1953. He was removed from power by Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, and pro-monarchy forces in a complex coup led by British and US intelligence agencies." --wikipedia

                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                The US has supported many brutal dictators like Samosa, Batista, Trujillo, Noriega, Marcos, Pinochet, Ngo Dinh Diem, to name just a few, who never had an unrigged election between them.

                I really don't find much of this to be shocked about, I suppose I have known about all of it for such a long time, it doesn't shock me anymore, but if you aren't ashamed, you apparently don't have a conscience.

                Report Abuse
    • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (August 17, 2006 12:59 am ET)
         

      I don't get your post. Are you saying that not giving Bush credit for the UK bust is being negative?

      we cant profile- I agree, that's stoopid, counterproductive and plays into righty "PC" labels. Profiling (within certain boundaries) is necessary.

      We can't secure the borders-- Nobody wants to , Repub nor Dem, both have their stake in immigrants, current administrations claims to want to, but is either kidding or as incompetent at this as everything else

      Can't call the terrorists what they are- sure we can, you just did, everybody on the news and on the street does,we just can't call everybody who shoots back at our army a terrorist. Some are just people in their own neighborhoods, being shot at.

      I'm serious about the hanging part- if you come back here, fill me in.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by The Church Secretary (August 17, 2006 7:03 am ET)
         

      Everything is true in this post, except for the lead-in. The reason the Brits were able to stop the plot is because it probably didn't exist anyway.

      [link to www.craigmurray.co.uk]

      Otherwise, great post.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by parcival (August 17, 2006 10:45 am ET)
         

      I'm surprised that I don't see more healthy skepticism on these pages, for example on whether there really was a "plot."

      I was suspicious from the beginning. It was so well-timed. We're seeing Lieberman get creamed in CT, Lebanese "terrorist" groups being more durable and successful than expected against the Zionists.

      Now the busheviks can say, "I told yo so" thru their media, Limbaugh, Hannity the Thug, o'leilly the desperate, etc.

      Did the "plotters" have tickets? Passports? ANYTHING?

      No.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by temphandle bricked52gymnasts (August 17, 2006 11:11 am ET)
         

      I'd like to hear a mention of Cokie Roberts (who tends to sympathize with the Bush adminstration to begin with). On Monday's (8/14) Morning Edition, Ms. Roberts stated that the foiled UK terrorist plot was, without a doubt, a political win for "President" Bush. She did not make one mention of the simple, irrefutable fact that the plot was thwarted by one thing: Good, old-fashioned police work on the part of the UK.

      I would love it if a letter of protest to NPR be posted that all can sign and call on Ms. Roberts to refrain from her blantly partisan opinions.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by openmind456 (August 17, 2006 12:21 pm ET)
         

      If people want to be informed, they should tune out CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNBC, and the like and get their news from alternative sources. The objective of the corporate media outlets is to brainwash the public into accepting corporate and rightwing political and economic agenda.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 4:14 pm ET)
           

        I agree and disagree. If the corporate media called a spade a spade, the ACLU would be all over them. Why not call Illegal Immgrants just that? In a post above I read "Immigrants".... They are ""Illegal"" Aliens. Where is the left to correct that? No where. The media is also helping the leftwing politicaly on this matter. Left and Right, they are in bed with eachother.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by political_left-religious_right (August 17, 2006 1:04 pm ET)
         

      The folks in the media will be claiming that the arrest of John Mark Carr will be a boost for President Bush.

      After all, JonBenet's murder happened during the dreaded Clinton administration, right?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by blueblood (August 17, 2006 2:01 pm ET)
         

      that whenever there is a terrorist plot uncovered or a terrorist attack occurs, the media has no problem with the perception that it is "good" for Bush. Why should these events be good for any president? Why should a president bank on terrorism to improve his standing with the American people? Why would such a presidency be acceptable to the media elites in the first place?

      These fundamental questions have yet to be addressed by any journalist or news organization of which I am aware.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by ajozz (August 17, 2006 5:01 pm ET)
           

        that is correct...instead it should be celebrated as beign good for everyone....we get to fly on a plane and not get blown out of the sky...

        Report Abuse
    • Author by abc (August 17, 2006 2:24 pm ET)
         

      MSNBC "reporter" reports that one of the arrested female "plotters" has a baby, which the reporter segues into, "terrorists using babies as bombs." Who says the media aren't on the side of the Bush propaganda machine?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 4:20 pm ET)
           

        she was pregnant. I do not se your point unless it was a lie. It just goes to show, "Love everyone, trust no one".....

        Report Abuse
    • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 4:01 pm ET)
         

      Twelve years after an al-Qaida terrorist blew a hole in a Boeing 747 with a liquid explosive, the government has not significantly upgraded its passenger-screening devices to prevent it from happening again.

      Who was president in 1995? ahhhhhhhhh, I think you all know the answer. So, what did Clinton do back then to change this?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 4:06 pm ET)
           

        I am not taking the side the the failed Bush admin, but to say !12 years after and not includethe Clinton years is what I do not understand.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by evillib1727 (August 17, 2006 4:34 pm ET)
         

      Sues the City of New York for wanting to RANDOMLY check bagage, yet a sign at the NYCLU buiding wanred people they reserve the right to search bags of all people entering.

      WHY I ASK??????

      Report Abuse

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