NBC still hosting Buchanan on immigration; Malkin told O'Reilly that reconquista is "mainstream" among immigrants
SUMMARY: In his third appearance on an NBC-owned channel in two days to promote his new book, Pat Buchanan asserted that "the Mexican government is interested in basically the reconquista of the American Southwest." Meanwhile, on The O'Reilly Factor, Michelle Malkin claimed the idea of reconquista is "mainstream" among immigrants.
On the August 23 edition of MSNBC's Tucker, MSNBC political analyst and former presidential candidate Pat Buchanan asserted that "the Mexican government is interested in basically the reconquista of the American Southwest." Later, on the August 23 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, in a discussion of illegal immigration with host Bill O'Reilly, conservative columnist Michelle Malkin said that the idea of reconquista is "mainstream" among immigrants. O'Reilly disagreed, instead describing illegal immigration as "an economic scam" in which "Mexico's exporting its poverty and education problem here."
This was Buchanan's third appearance on NBC or an NBC-owned cable channel in two days to promote his new book State of Emergency: The Third World Invasion and Conquest of America (Thomas Dunne Books), which, as Media Matters noted, asserts that "Mexican agents" are seeking "to take back through demography and culture what their ancestors lost through war." Buchanan also appeared on the August 23 edition of CNBC's Kudlow & Company, as well as on the August 22 edition of NBC's Today.
As Media Matters for America has noted, reconquista is a term associated with El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán, the founding document of the Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan (Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan, or MEChA), a group with affiliates at numerous college campuses and several high schools that claims to work toward "improving the social and political situation of the Chicano/Latino community." Critics claim that El Plan Espiritual de Aztlán outlines a plan of recapturing the southwestern United States for Mexico. But Aztlan and reconquista are concepts promoted by "white supremacists and neo-Nazis" more than by Mexicans or Mexican-Americans, according to a March 30 column by Alex Koppelman, a columnist for Drexel University's biweekly online magazine, Dragonfire.
During
his appearance on Tucker, Buchanan
also declared that in the interests of "diversity and
multiculturalism," schools are "not allowed" to teach
"English and American literature from the first grade or kindergarten
on," because that is now considered "cultural genocide." After being challenged by host Tucker Carlson, Buchanan contradicted himself, saying that "we are allowed to do it."
Malkin similarly accused the Mexican government of seeking to regain the American Southwest during her appearance on The O'Reilly Factor. Asked by host Bill O'Reilly whether "this massive immigration to the United States, 15 million strong, is a part of a plan to bring back territory to Mexico," Malkin replied that "I take the Mexican government at its word when it says that is exactly its plan," referring to Mexican "lobbyists" "blurring the lines between illegal and legal immigration." Malkin disagreed with O'Reilly's claim that only "a fringe, nutty group" among all immigrants had an "undercurrent of militancy" and vowed to take back land lost by Mexico in the Mexican-American War through "illegal immigration." Malkin asserted that "we saw in April and May of this year that supposed fringe come out into the mainstream." O'Reilly argued instead that Mexico is "exporting its poverty and education problem here" as part of "an economic scam."
Malkin previously discussed the reconquista, or the theory that "the American Southwest belongs to Mexico," on the March 30 edition of the O'Reilly Factor, as Media Matters noted.
From the August 23 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:
MALKIN: Well, I mean, there are distinctions that you have to make between Cuban-Americans and a lot of the Mexican-Americans and people who came to Los Angeles across the border illegally. I mean, one thing is that, you know, if you're in the Southwest, people go back and forth and pay no mind to the distinction between our countries. They see North America as a some sort of, you know, borderless region --
O'REILLY: But do you think most -- do you think most --
MALKIN: -- and they have no appreciation for this country. And I think that Cuban-Americans are very different in spirit and character.
O'REILLY: They are. Every ethnic group is going to be -- I don't think most Mexican-Americans want to go back to Mexico. And I'm not sure about the illegal aliens. I don't know what they want to do. But most legal Mexican-Americans, they don't want to go back to Mexico. Because they could if they could -- they could if they wanted. So I know that there's an undercurrent of militancy that says, "Hey, this is our territory. You stole it from us in the Mexican-American War. We're going to take it back now by illegal immigration." But I think that's a fringe, nutty group, not the mass of millions that we have.
MALKIN: Well, I guess I disagree with you there, Bill, because I mean, we saw in April and May of this year that supposed fringe come out into the mainstream. And it wasn't just a dozen folks who are ensconced in the ivory tower who believe that the Southwest is Aztlan and it belongs to them. You had people from Wisconsin, to Phoenix, to California, to Seattle carrying those signs saying that by sheer demographic force, they have reclaimed Los Angeles. They reclaimed Phoenix.
O'REILLY: So you agree with Buchanan, then. You think that this massive immigration to the United States, 15 million strong, is a part of a plan to bring back territory to Mexico?
MALKIN: Well, I take the Mexican government at its word when it says that is exactly its plan. If you look at the Mexican consulates that are active, political lobbyists who have entrenched themselves in the American mainstream and who have succeeded in blurring the lines between illegal and legal immigration, yes, there's a plan. And look -- and here --
O'REILLY: Well, I think that's done for economic reasons. I think Mexico's exporting its poverty and education problem here --
MALKIN: Well --
O'REILLY: -- and benefiting from the dollars going back. I think it's an economic scam.
From the August 23 edition of MSNBC's Tucker:
BUCHANAN: America's going to be inundated -- we'll be the first country -- Western country to be predominantly third world in national origins. And the problem is, the newcomers are not assimilating as the Irish did, the Germans did, the Jewish folks did, the Polish folks did --
CARLSON: No, they're not. But why couldn't they? I mean, why -- look, it seems -- I mean, let's be totally real here. We're not going to stop this because vested interests have a stake in it, Democrats and Republicans. They want illegal immigration. So there's nothing we can do, apart from hope that these are people who can be assimilated. Why can't we start trying now to make these newcomers to our country Americans?
BUCHANAN: Because the same people that want the illegal immigration are opposed to assimilation. Right now, we live in the age of diversity and multiculturalism, where the idea of taking kids and dipping them into English and American literature from the first grade or kindergarten on, the way they used to do in America, that's cultural genocide, Tucker. You're not allowed to do that anymore. And the folks coming from Mexico, for example --
CARLSON: Well, you're not allowed to teach immigrants to our country our language and our literature? It's our country. I mean, on what grounds aren't you allowed to do that? That makes me red in the face just thinking about it.
BUCHANAN: Well, we are allowed -- we are allowed to do it, but take a look at the people who are educating the children in this country. Secondly, the folks who are coming, particularly Mexican folks who are coming simply to work, they're loyal Mexicans. They want to keep their language, they want to keep their culture, they want to keep their music, they want to keep their identity as Mexicans, they want to keep their loyalty to Mexico, and the Mexican government wants them to stay loyal to Mexico. They are moving people from another nation into the United States. This is not Ellis Island. These folks aren't coming here and kissing the ground and saying, "Thank God I'm an American" or "I'm going to be one, and my kids are certainly going to be Americans."
These folks, they march under Mexican flags, they boo American teams at soccer games. They are militant, and they have no interest, many of them, in becoming American. And frankly, the Mexican government is interested in, basically, the reconquista of the American Southwest. Not militarily -- culturally, ethnically, linguistically. And it's happening, Tucker.
And believe me when I tell you I t hink she is total slime,...My cousin lives in Las Vegas, in the more latino area, near Eastern and Bonanza and talking to a lot of her neighbors, it's unfortunately true.
A lot of the latinos really think and hear all the time on their radios, that the Southwest belongs to Mexico.
Whether they actually would follow through with any sort of means to do it might be another thing, but listening to them, they really believe in Reconquista totally.
Sort of sad really.
for such blatant smearing of an entire group of people?
Or are you just attempting to use an anecdote from your couisin to support your right-wing and paranoid perception in order to justify your bias?
I'm Mexican-American. My family is from the Southwest, in Texas. Neither they, nor anyone else they know is interested in such a stupid idea.
Anyone here actually watch/listen to Spanish-langauge media? It's just as inane as anything in English and has nothing to do "reconquista."
This is crap invented to justify a fear/repression of brown people.
And, for those of you who will complain about my "playing the race card," please grow up and stop hiding behind your indignation masking your eurocentric superiority complex. Racism exists. It is a valid critical framework, when you are willing to actually examine historical context. Those of you who are unwilling can only complain instead of seeking to expand your perspective. It is your ignaorance that allows people like Buchanan and Malkin wrap a debate about immigration in not-so-subtleappeals to prejudice.
Well, you and NBC, that is.
His cousin talked to the white neighbors in the "predominant" hispanic neighborhood. They all agreed they are being overrun. That translated to the reconquista theory...
"any sources for such blatant smearing of an entire group of people?"
While I don't think Buzzramjet set to "[smear] an entire group of people," this may interest you:
58 percent of Mexico's residents agree that "the territory of the United States’ Southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico."
57 percent of Mexico's residents agree "that Mexicans should have the right to enter the U.S. without U.S. permission."
(Zogby poll, May 2002)
No matter where you stand on the issue, the feeling that "the Southwest belongs to Mexico" is not a fringe/wacko opinion. In Mexico, the majority believes this!
Zogby International conducted interviews of 801 adults chosen at random throughout Mexico
That's a very small number for an entire country. Plus, these are Mexicans in Mexico. The ones entering the United States probably have much different views, and then you must consider which ones are guest workers, legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, etc. Finally, "Rightfully belongs to" and "Should be re-taken by socio-political force" are two different things.
not like the poll, it is not in your better interest. Did you see the people protesting in the streets? Did you hear what they said? The girl I work next to says the same thing....
Are you trying to say I don't like the poll because I disagree with the findings? I only pointed out a few ways in which it is flawed (there are probably more), for all you know I could have agreed completely with the findings.
Furthermore, I have heard and seen pro-immigration protestors on television. But, like the "girl you work next to", that's ancedotal evidence (not everyone was in the protest, and even a handful of those got to make statements to television news).
Hey, I happen to believe that Toledo "rightfully" belongs to Michigan (Ohio swiped it in 1836), but that doesn't mean that Michigan should forcefully take it back, nor that I'd support it if it tried.
No matter how many people feel that Mexico's best land was stolen from them--and it's a historical fact that it was--this doesn't mean that they have any designs or plans to recover it.
That poll, in other words, is rather immaterial.
Mexico's best land was stolen from them -- and it's a historical fact that it was...
Really? Does the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo mean anything to you?
"Stolen"? No.
Cheers.
I didn't think the land was "stolen", but I was too lazy to look it up myself.
We compensated Mexico and paid some of their debt. The agreement was signed by both countries legitimate representatives.
If the land was indeed "stolen" (meaning Mexico should have not done the deal or didn't get enough money for it) the fault would be on the Mexican Government at the time. Not the US at all.
It was one in along history of treaties (which have the same Constitutional power as an Amendment) in which the US brokered a deal w/a militarily-defeated people (as in the treaties w/ Native American peoples) for a ridiculously one-sided exchange ($15 million for one third of their country [maybe $3 billion in today's dollars]). Of course,the second part is for us to then completely ignore the bits which impede Manifest Destiny, et al.
[link to www.pbs.org]
We blatantly broke the treaty to take land from the Mexican citizens who were guaranteed their land, even those who decided to become American citizens. That land should still legally be an issue,as it was guaranteed under a ratified trreaty (w/ the power of the Constitution).
So, yes, the Mexican government signed away land, but it was the American government and "white" American landowners/officials/judges who essentially drove away the new Mexican-American landowwners (who were choosing to assimilate, BTW).
So, if we are going to talk about history, please make sure that you undestand how those parts of the Southwest actually came to be more "white" than Latino before you start talking about the silly notion of an immigrant invasion or reconquista.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Texas was annexed largely because of "illegal immigration," actually. The first law banning so-called "illegal" immigrants was passed by Mexico to keep American settlers out of Texas because they WERE trying to take it for the US and themselves. They did it and they were very BLATANT in their intentions. The Alamo, etc. was all part of an illegal occupation of another country's land that led to annexation.
The idea that teh American Southwest is becoming too brown is ironic, given its actual history.
Now, I am NOT advocating thsi stupid idea of reconquista. The fact is that there is NO freaking way any such thing could happen. The American culturaland political infrastructutre is too powerful& eentrnched. Besides, no culture is as good at integrating and claiming other cultuers like America. That's what we've done since colonial times.
Pople attempting to express pride in the culture(s) they identify with are NOT necessarily denying or insulting American society/culture/etc. Unless you explicitly hear them say so,that'sYOUR interpretation. And if you makeit up, that's a LIE.
I married a mexican. I know her family, her relatives, and I can tell you NOT ONE has ever suggested the southern states should be returned to Mexico. Truthfully? This is history, the reich wingers have always said this. Italians and Germans? "oh, they'll never assimilate". Irish? "oh, they'll never assimilate". American Indians? "oh, they'll never assimilate". This line is 200 years old now. Funny that the same group who says we should learn from history doesn't know what the history is. dummies.
the ancestors said that about the Irish ect?
The Irish immigrant population in the United States met with discrimination and prejudice, same as any other immigrant group.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
I visit my cousin in Vegas about 4 times a year. We've become friends with the people in the neighborhood.
AND you can of course keep falling on the race card sword until you are dead on the ground.
But quite a few of them believe this. The younger ones are the ones more into it than the older ones. So go ahead, feel good about calling me racist, I could care less. But if you are foolish enough to think they all come here and think we are just the most wonderful people and they love America and would just do whatever we want to prove that love...well....at least share the acid. I haven't been able to find any real LSD in decades.
There are quite a few of those who believe in ReConquista. Never said all of them, but you'd be surprised at how many do believe in it. With the recent and very public debates, discussions and marches, the ReConquistas have gotten real silent and some have even claimed they never said anything.
They have removed the ReConquista maps from their websites and say they were never there to begin with dispite downloads showing otherwise.
BUT until this all became very public and under scrutiny, there were quite a few groups pushing this idea.
Buchanan post, the Mexicans are as European as we are because of the Spanish blood in their veins. Therefore, the SW was under Spanish control (who took it from the Natives, prior to the 1840s.) So who does the territory actually belong to? Since mankind has existed, control of land around the world has shifted from one "tribe" to another and back again. But when a country is established with laws, boundaries, etc, those should be respected.
I feel the laws and boundries should be respeted, PERIOD!
You say a surprising number of Mexican-Americans believe in "reconquista". Other commenters have said the opposite. Buzz, please stop pretending your personal anecdotes are evidence.
"a suprising number"... not all.
That's just another reason his evidence doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Heck, I'd be surprised to meet anyone who thought "reconquista" was a good idea.
You do not have to answer that. But, when I was watching the protesters, reading some of the signs, and hearing the words the spoke, you sure got the idea some thought it was. You would see and hear, "We are the Aboriginies' of this land! ", "This was our land first". Stuff like that. Did you not watch the news? That to me was disturbing to hear. I can easly find pictures for you to see.
"I visit my cousin in Vegas about 4 times a year. We've become friends with the people in the neighborhood."
------------------------------------------------
A person with at least a high school education should know better than to offer this as evidence.
I visit my cousin in Vegas about 4 times a year. We've become friends with the people in the neighborhood. Buzzramjet / Thursday August 24, 2006 08:41:41 PM EST
No matter how many times you visit the same neighborhood it's still anecdotal evidence.
They have removed the ReConquista maps from their websites and say they were never there to begin with dispite downloads showing otherwise. Buzzramjet / Thursday August 24, 2006 08:41:41 PM EST
Sure, and Saddam hid all those WMD's in Syria. Right. Work on your logic man, we're not dittoheads, we don't believe everything we hear.
Brown on the outside, white on the inside. The only thing worse than a neocon moron is a brown neocon moron. What mkaes this self-hating woman think she wouldn't be one of the first to be deported or gassed if Buchanan had his way.
this is why she's even more disgusting than coulter. internalized oppression is U-G-L-Y!
would I be white on the outside, and brown on the inside?
being white, and conservative, I feel much hate on this site. (Even if I am very liberal in ways) Very unfair considering no one on here even knows me. Most people here seem to cast judgment on "White" folk like terrorists do on the infidels.
I'm white, and the only racism I've noticed on this site is from the right-wing misinformers that Media Matters is keeping tabs on.
you seem to agree with most on this blog. Therefore, it eliminiates you from being called a racist.
You're being ridiculous not to mention paranoid. Most of the MMFA posters conservative, moderate, and liberal seem to me to be quite racially tolerant. Acknowledging that racism from the dominant and most powerful group in America had a negative effect on the powerless groups does not equate to believing that all White people are racist. It's silly to say that. We're individuals and just because you happen to be a member of the dominant group that effected this oppression doesn't mean anybody assumes you’re a racist and an oppressor. Please try to understand the difference. I'll give you an example. Louis Farrakhan has made many racist and anti-Semitic remarks in the past, (although people close to him say that his view have modified over time) doesn't mean that I'm a racist simply because Farrakhan and I belong to the same racial group. I hope you're smart or mature enough to see the difference.
She's "white on the inside" because of her unfair commentary on minorities. When you start saying racist remarks about Caucasians, then you can be brown on the inside.
man I feel so much better now. What a self -hater she is.
casting stones at glass houses? Your remark shows me what a hatter you are.
Racists come in all colors.....
I don't think Malkin hates herself at all. She's paid a lot of money by powerful people to write and say what she does.
I think most of the Mexicans coming here are more interested in making money and sending it home than anything else.
Hell, let them have the Southwest if they want it. Pay blacks reparations and let them have a piece of the country too.
"Brown on the outside, white on the inside."
Conservatism and liberalism aren't inherently racial ideologies.
has shifted from one "tribe" to another and back again. But when a country is established with laws, boundaries, etc, those should be respected." - Oscar the Grouch
Absolutely right. If only the European "immigrants" had respected the Native Americans' laws and boundaries starting in 1620 . . . or the US government during the Indian Wars, when they kept making - and breaking - treaties . . .
[I haven't posted here for seven months since my comments kept getting deleted, but let's try again. Visit my site to read much more.]
What MMFA doesn't mention is that several Mexican-American politicians are former members of MEChA, including CA's Lt.Gov., a CA state Sen., a U.S. Rep., and L.A.'s mayor. In fact, the latter was a leader of MEChA, and he's somewhat renounced that group. Why would he renounce a group if they're as squeaky clean as MMFA says? Shouldn't a former leader of the group know a bit more about them than MMFA?
As for Koppelman click the link to read all the comments HuffPosters left about one of his posts. He has absolutely no clue on this issue, and it's pretty pathetic of MMFA to rest their entire case on someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
And, here are some facts to consider:
- There are millions of dual citizens; Mexico pushes dual citizenship.
- Mexico has programs to "reach out" to their citizens here, and they've publicly stated that they want the people they send us to remain Mexican and think of Mexico first.
- They have more consulates in our country than any other country, and their consuls are very aggressive about pushing pro-Mexican policies even at the city council level.
- They give free schoolbooks that push the Mexican viewpoint of the Mexican-American war to U.S. schoolchildren
- Both past presidents of Mexico have claimed part of our citizenry as part of the Mexican Nation.
- The Mexican government works with several U.S. "human rights" groups that push open borders policies; just lately, various ACLU chapters have become part of a coalition that includes two other organizations that are working with Mexico.
- At least two of the organizers of the illegal immigration marches have links to the Mexican government. One of those is a former consul general. One other organizer is an official with Mexico's PRD party. The possibility exists that the Mexican government used proxies to get their citizens in our country to take to the streets.
First of all, the United States does not recognize dual citizenship, and requires naturalized citizens to renounce their old citizenship (I suppose one could be considered a citizen under both US and Mexican law, but again, it's not recognized).
Secondly, I've thought about what you posted, and to me, it seems that the Mexican government does not want to isolate the Mexican-American population, and tries to keep up a good public image. You're being very alarmist if you think that means they're trying to reconquer the Southwest.
Both Malkin and Buchanan are not only racists, but idiots and liars as well. Ms Malkin the few times that she is challenged on air turns into a " dear lost in headlights ". The corporate media loves these shills, and the fools that believe this filth !
Good point, your argument and thesis on illegal immigration was spot on and I agree whole-heartedly. Wait.... what was it again? Oh yeah the problem with illegal immigration is that Pat Buchanan and Michelle Malkin are Racist Liars!!!!!
That commenter posted a comment about how racist O'Reilly and Malkin were being (the whole point of the Media Matters article), and you berate them for not mentioning immigration.
Next time you say something, I'll be sure to accuse you of being a terrorist sympathizer by not mentioning a solution to the Iraq war.
Buchanan, not O'Reilly.
now accuse. I will start crying right........now.
This article makes me frustrated with everybody - with Malkin's transparent playing to the "fear of a brown planet" racist nutballs, AND with MMFA's sloppy use of some blogger's opinion as "proof." Come on, MMFA - you're usually much better than that.
The problem is that Malkin lumps "Aztlan" and "reconquista" together, and MMFA accepts it. "Aztlan" is a politicized intellectual and spiritual concept, used by self-identified Chicanos (as opposed to self-identified Mexican-Americans, and there's a big difference) as a term of pride and unity, and it's used all the time. "Reconquista" is a goofy concept mainly used as a punchline - except by wingnuts who want to stir up their paranoid base against the treacherous brown people across the border who want to take our jobs and our women. To make an imperfect 1960s analogy, Aztlan = Black Power and Reconquista = Kill Whitey.
Making them one unified concept is intellectually dishonest or just plain ignorant, and MMFA should have called Malkin on THAT (as they do so often, and so well, on so many other right-wing pundits).
Mighty Mouse Malkin epitomizes all that is daft, shallow and wrong about right wing so-called "thinking." Why are these so-called "people" so scared? They are absolutely TERRIFIED by life -- if it isn't Mean Old Saddam, it's Mean Old mullahs from Iran, or Mean Old Hezzbollah. Why can't they just take a tranquilizer and, you know, stop wetting their cheap and ugly dresses? That goes for Malkin as well as O"Reilly.
Michelle Malkin is so attractive, yet so incredibly uptight.
But I feel the whole concept of "reconquista" is a total pipe dream. If a portion (however large or small) of the U.S. Latin community wants to indulge in a fantasy of "taking back" Arizona, New Mexico, and Nevada then let them dream away.
On a scale of "Events Likely to Occur in The Next Century," such a thing ranks with Elvis returning to life, and going back on tour with Buddy Holly and The Big Bopper.
It's so insane as to not even merit time.
"Michelle Malkin is so attractive, yet so incredibly uptight"
Why? What do you imagine the nature of your relationship with her would be if she was less "uptight"? Are you hoping that she would be your stereotypical subservient asian slavegirl, shocked into eternal servitude due to the profound nature of your comments on the internet?
Get a grip! The fact that she apparently has one or more opinions which dare to be different from yours isn't an indication that she possesses some poorly-defined character flaw like you've suggested.
In addition, the fact that you're suggesting that her "attractiveness" is somehow wasted because of these different opinions is both laughable and indicative of a sort of outdated "your job is to look sexy and shut up, broad!"-type sexism. Well done!
Like I said before, people like her and Walter Williams are paid a ton of money to say what they say. She probably couldn't care less as long as she keeps getting paid.
Having a person like her say what she says is good for The Right because it masks their racism.
dumb post I have ever read. To suggest someone like Walter Williams not only doesn't believe what he says but that he is only doing it for a paycheck from the righty wingnuts is so moronic and sophomoric. You’re a racist bigot.
Malkin is nothing new. The oppressor has always used individuals of low character and intelligence from oppressed races in order to divide and conquer.
Tomming has been going on since slavery days. Used to be they just got a pat on the head like a lap dog, an extra plate of hog innards and the "honor" of being considered a good negro.
thats all I can do is.......LOL.
Malkin's becoming such a raw propagandist (versus, say, a journalist) she should be nicknamed "Manila Michelle," as opposed to something like "Tokyo Rose."
But I think she'd object to being reminded that she is the daughter of immigrants because, you know, they are the source of all America's problems.
How did the SW get into the union anyhow? Maybe the Mexicans are on to something. Anglo settlers over ran Mexican territory and then rebelled against Mexico. So they are using the tactic that works. There'll be less blood shed and miseries of war if we just surrender.
Maybe the thing to do is demand minority rights for the Anglo minority. Are folks from the far east, Japanese, Chinese, SE Asia, and then of course black folks as well as may others many others Anglos?
Pat confuses geto, (bario) containment with assimilation. He like recent conservatives, (since 1965) is still fighting the civil war. Somebody needs to tell him Lee gave up.
Why don't these complainers point out the major impetus for the 'waves of immigrant invaders?' Namely, cheap American produce exports, a la NAFTA, that have displaced Mexican farm workers. They could simultaneously blame Clinton. But they would also have to concede that their free market forces have created consequences for which they are unwilling to admit. Unless we're talking about terrorism these guys can't get their minds around fighting an invisible enemy, so blame the brown people. We can see them. We're all in this together though, because the corporations see no difference among low wage earners, we're all expendable.
These sociopath pundits and their hordes of frightened, pampered nationalists talk ad nauseam about marketplace competition as the hero of capitalism. That is, until they are actually engaged wage competition, then people willing to work for less are damn devils. Please. What happened to that sweet, sweet talk about keeping one's nose to the the grindstone and learning skills, making oneself more marketable?
And don't even start that 'they're draining our resources' dung, or 'they're just criminals' blubbering, or 'they overcrowd our schools' junk. Especially when these self same sissies have only shot down ideas for healthcare and education. Embrace the difficulties. This is the country of ingenuity; we find a way when there is a will.
These sycopahants will always need their wedge issues. Wake up, these people are cowards.
Instead of slamming real problems > "they're draining our resources' dung, or 'they're just criminals' blubbering, or 'they overcrowd our schools' junk".......and dismissing them as talking points; please offer up your solution on how we "Embrace the difficulties. This is the country of ingenuity; we find a way when there is a will".
Ironic on how you offer these blanket pep talk generalizations but offer no specifics on how to deal with the catastrophic problems of open borders.
the answer is "racist". If you don't want an open border your a "racist". These people would rather damn the nation in fear they will be called racist.
Sadly, many people love to say this one's a racist, or that one's a racist.......it's a cheap tool used to prop us a very weak argument, and to minimize and diffuse the opponent's points so as to deflect the discussion away from the issue at hand.
Thankfully it is becoming less and less effective as people stop taking the bait and steer the debate back to it's relevant substance.
I believe that you know this isn't true. I have consistently said that illegal immigration is a huge problem because uncontrolled growth can not be planned for. And every nation should have a way of monitoring and controlling it's borders. My problem is with the right wingers that insist on introducing the cultural i.e racial aspect of the group that dominates the illegal immigrant population. It doesn't matter to me wheter the illegal immigrants are Scandanavians or Sudenese. When these right wing Xenophobes stop introducing the racial aspect into the debate I'll stop commenting on their bigotry.
You negative Nellie E.C. Who brought up race, me or you?
What border problem? There is no border, only an economic entity known as North America. We want the profits but not the problems. So, ease the road to citizenship. The sooner they become taxpaying U.S. citizens the sooner they become investors in the economy and infrastructure. Also, as U.S. citizens they won't be subject to the abuses of low wage employers of 'illegals'. In other words deportation can no longer be used as leverage for employers who economically abuse immigrants.
As for overcrowded schools, well cease the reckless spending on the war machine and invest in education. More schools, more teachers aimed at yielding smaller classes. Emphasize parent participation in education, that is essential, teachers are heroes not superheroes.
As for healthcare. I'm for nationalized healthcare with an emphasis on preventative healthcare. I'm not suggesting I know enough about it to fix healthcare, but there has to be clear minded people who can and would given the chance.
As for the criminal element, every culture has that. Convince me that U.S. born criminals don't flee this country.
I don't know, TOMMY, my answers may be trite, but I maintain optimism with regard to the issue.
Thank you for your comments, I appreciate your honesty.
I disagree and this is why. I agree that many look to us, not as a country with soverign borders, but as a market. Free exchange of goods, expand the market as much as possible, etc. Borders are just an impediment to many corporatists, which I believe Bush is. However, I believe we can still have global corporations and markets with free trade without opening our borders and flooding our country with cheap labor and god knows who else illegally. People say, but you won't want to pay $10 for a head of lettuce, but the market forces and the cheap labor are hurting this country at a record pace.
The solutions you offer would be an absolutely extravagant strain on every level of our society - from social services, to massive tax increases, crime, schools, and so on. We do need scientists and engineers to fill many vacancies in such a competetive global economy, I admit that.
But most of all we need strong border enforcement and a streamlined immigration policy. Opening our borders to anyone is far too dangerous and a door that if opened, will have incredible repercussions.
and yet the only solution you offer is "But most of all we need strong border enforcement and a streamlined immigration policy"
Can I ask how this is going to address the issue of over crowding in school, low wages, lack of health care, companies that exploit people, etc?
In case you haven't noticed these problems would still exist regardless of the immigrant population coming into the US.
The reason I have a problem with the entire "immigration" issue is its being used as a tool to blame core issues on immigrants as if these issues would all disappear once our boarders are secure. Certain elements of the Conservative party seem to excel at solutions based off blame or class warfare.... they also seem to neglect the root of many of these problems.
Why don't you address all of the issues and not just the select few that tend to be heavy handed against the people coming here? You do realize why many of them are coming here?
You are confusing illegal immigration, which definitely exasserbates all the problems you detail, but they are not the root cause of them, who is saying that?
This is about the sovereignty of this country among many things.
The issues you raise would not be immediately solved if we secured our borders, but it would have an impact on them.
Very important issues, but not the topic of this thread.
And getting a grip on the border will help the country do a bit of catch up. At the current rate, we will never catch up. Are you condoning millions more flooding into the nation illegally over the next couple years, only continuing to compound the problem? We can not change our current immigration policy to," Just come over guys, we will take care of the legistics later".... Fix the schools, but not the border. Fix the healthcare system, but not the border..... yeah right.
The border is sewn tighter. No more migrant workers and a massive reduction of immigrants. Then what? What do we fix first and how do we do it?
solution. I am all for higher taxes if it supports our school children. I think it was commonsense that said, having teachers both fluent in Spanish and English teaching classes as needed. Separating the only Spanish speaking kids from the fluent English so everyone gets a fair share. That would mean more teachers, smaller classrooms. Kick the illegal criminals back to the country they came from instead of housing them in our prisons. That money there could go for some social program. Spanking companies that hire illegals forcing them to pay a fair wage. Maybe this could cut down on the overcrowding in neighborhoods. Stop in the mass of Anchor babies being born. Whatever law that is, abolish it. That there is a ton of money that could go into healthcare.
Higher taxes? Good luck getting that past the majority of conservatives. Now rolling back the tax breaks for our wealthiest earners while leaving the little guys alone, sure. Right there is a plethora of revenue.
As to seperating kids, no thank you. We've tried that. Segregation, seperate but equal. Besides, language immersion is the best way to learn new languages. Kids will help each other. That could be mutaully beneficial, each kid learns the other's language. That would take maybe more than one teacher per class. Anyway, seperation of kids negatively impacts perceptions of differences.
Speaking of crowded prisons, well, legalize drugs and support factual drug education for abuse prevention with readily available rehab. Incarceration just ain't workin' and it ain't going to unless we figure out how to extinguish human desire. And to further expand upon desire, and this is where we diverge, I believe immigrants come here desiring something better. That is the American dream man. To make things better than they are. We can accomodate this dream and we must or we have no soul.
Ayway, I've rambled like a bleeding heart too long.
peace out
"we have no soul.... " You have not come up with a single solution. Don't make it sound like I am calling for segregation. When I lived in South America I went to a American school. I did not find it to be different. My best friends after school where the kids that lived on the other side of the wall form our million doallar house. These kids where the poor that chased chicken naked. Infact, I learned spanish in 6 months. Now, if the teacher had to say everything twice, it would have taken me twice as long.
I was looking for common ground with you, not trying to cast you as something you're not.
Thanks for your correspondence, though.
Sometimes it is hard to tell without hearing a tone of voice. :0)
I know you catch a lot of flack on these threads.
Seems right to me since we stole their land.
I am more than willing to give Texas back to Mexico (especially that area called Crawford). Let's put it on the November ballot -- a national referendum.
I do find it ironic that Malkin, the child of immigrants, is so anti-immigrant. I think she has something to prove -- not sure what that would be exactly.
Maybe hers came over legally? It is the legal aspect that pisses me off so much. Who are these lawbreakers to think they deserve special treatment. Heck, anyone have a problem with me peddling a little marijuana?
A friend was in FLorida durring the big protesting a few months back. He noticed the same thing about the Cuban community. They ALL wore shirts with American Flags, buttons, hats ect.
very attractive!
I did some searching. She's hardly a neo-tom or lap-dog someone who is self-hating. Nor is she dumb. Lacking character, maybe.
She's a spoiled little rich girl. Her dad was a doctor, her mom a teacher. Her parents were both Reagan republicans.
She's married to a conservative jew oddly enough. And she is of Filipino descent.
Not all non-whites are liberals, and I have known a lot of them. I even remember working with a Filipino guy who was a right-winger and loved Limbaugh. In fact, you'd be surprised at how many Asians are conservatives.
and not conservative, but I am. I guess, opposites attract.
I must admit I know little about Filipino culture but there was an essay recently in News week or Time (I can't remember with certainty which one) by a Filipina author. She said that Filipinos almost worship Americans and Europeans. They are encouraged to marry them so they're children can have lighter skin and narrower (European) features and that marrying a White is considered "marrying up." She like Malkin was quite brown and she said as a child her grandmother would not let her play in the sun because she didn't want her already dark skin getting any darker. She did marry a White man and had a child with much fairer skin than the typical Filipino. She said in the Philippines these mixed raced children are highly sought after and used in print and television commercials and that they make a lot of money. Apparently her Filipino relatives are encouraging her to have her mixed race son become a Filipino child model or whatever you want to call it. This gives me some insight into Malkin's behavior. I believe she's been conditioned to believe like Pat Buchanan believes that European culture is superior to all others and must be protected fiercely against threats. She's kind of sad because many of the Xenophobes would categorize Ms. Malkin as a threat to the European homogeneity that they want for the US.
about the Filipino culture raising their daughters to "Marry Up", is true. How often it happens for that reason alone, I can not tell you numbers. However, in my wifes family, including extended, I am the only caucasian married into.
Actually, Mexican settlement in the northern territories was very sparse. Most inhabitants were Native Americans who did not recognize any Mexican rule over their ancestral lands. Almost all of western Texas belonged to the Comanches, not the Mexicans. Arizona and New Mexico belonged to the pueblo peoples like the Hopi and the Navaho whereas Mexican control only extended to the immediate vicinity of Sante Fe. The wars of conquest against the real owners of those lands only ended in the very late 1800's with the repression of the Apache and the capture of Geronimo, who fought both American and Mexican forces to keep the Apache homeland free. Funny how all these facts are completely ignored in the debate.
A little sidenote....when did Cinco de Mayo become a US holiday?
You're right Redking. Most people seem to forget who was here before the Europeans and Mexicans.