Buchanan linked DC age of consent to gay rights movement
On the October 4 edition of MSNBC News Live, MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan claimed that the scandal surrounding former Rep. Mark Foley (R-FL), who resigned from Congress on September 29 amid allegations he sent sexually explicit messages to underage male former congressional pages, will "boomerang on the Democrats" because "the consensual age for sex in Washington, D.C., is 16 years old," and "[o]ne of the reasons the age of consent has been reduced is the gay rights movement, which is holy inside the Democratic Party."
From the October 4 edition of MSNBC News Live, which also featured anchor Milissa Rehberger and Air America Radio host Mike Papantonio:
PAPANTONIO: Yeah, I think the only thing the Republicans have left, Milissa, is the issue on terrorism. This takes them away from that argument. Going into November, they lose on all the poll numbers. They lose on the economy, on the war in Iraq. They now lose on honesty and believability. They lose on health care. You have 60 percent of the American public that are unhappy about the direction that this country's going. Now, to have to take this focus away from terrorism and talk about this Republican predator, this Republican pedophile, this Republican conspiracy to cover up this Republican pedophile, is a big problem for the Republicans.
REHBERGER: Pat, do you agree? Do you see this as an embarrassment across the board for the GOP? Do you see it as a black eye on them?
BUCHANAN: Well, look, what this is going to do -- certainly for Republicans it is, but let me disagree with Mike. I'll tell you, this is going to boomerang on the Democrats for the simple reason of this. You know, the consensual age for sex in Washington, D.C., is 16 years old, which means if this congressman had gone off to a motel with this kid, it'd have been no crime committed, although conservatives would be outraged. One of the reasons the age of consent has been reduced is the gay rights movement, which is holy inside the Democratic Party.
I have long supported some of Buchanan's positions on many issues - i.e., his passion for small and efficient government and his stance on the border and the problems we face with illegal immigration.
However, when he ventures into this territory and displays his long historic "blame the gays" rhetoric, we part company.
Stick to what you know Pat, leave the veiled bigotry behind.
Pat, in my honest opinion is a pretty well principled american, but he does indeed have a bigotry that has deluded his mind (i.e. Homosexuals and argueably hispanics). He will not get my respect until he leaves this hatred behind him.
Otherwise he is a pretty bright guy.
Let's see, the age of consent in Alabama is 16. So I guess that must be due to gay rights activists as well, right? Yeah, except that gay sex is actually illegal in Alabama. Hmm, North Carolina is 16 too, but no gay sex allowed there either. Michigan, Florida, Idaho, Kansa, Mississipi, and on and on...all have the age of consent set at 16 (in fact most states do), while sexual relationships between same sex partners are considered illegal.
All those states made sodomy illegal? Wow that makes me even madder at the south. When will people speak out against these injustices toward homosexuals. I hope some day people will understand why we on the left support them and will help join our cause.
The Conservatives of Today have brought fear in my eyes...
Sodomy laws are rarely, if ever, enforced. So in spite of many in this country who are bigoted against gays, the injustice argument against homosexuals is overblown.
I know it may be unenforced but does that make it ok to have these laws? Tommy I don't get your point. If they are so unenforced why are they still in excistence?
Many silly, unenforced laws are still in existence. You are right, they should be taken off the books. When was the last time a gay couple was prosecuted for engaging in sex? If one was, I would be first one out there in their defense.
Why can't more right wingers think like you. I applaud your efforts to engage in meaningful debates with us liberals. If only our numbskull politicians could do the same...
Otherwise, you maybe shouldn't presume what kind of discrimination gay people endure.
What did I say? Did I offend you?
I was responding to Tommy with my discrimination comment.
Not being able to legally marry, which I have already made by position known; what other governmental regulations, specifically, discriminate against gay people? And please do not bring up private businesses, because that is not what I am talking about.
but not completely. Sex Ed teachers in many states are not permitted to teach about homosexuality. I know this does not really discriminate against homosexuals but it is an attempt by the right to keep our youth from learning about how homosexuality really works.
I see no value in teaching grade school children about homosexuality, if that is what you are referring to. What is more important is to teach children to understand that all people are different and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.
Don't you think if our youth understood more about homosexuality they would be more willing to accept these individuals?I see great opportunity in teaching this to our youths for that very reason.
As for how homosexuals work? What? They work the same as anyone, the only difference is who they love and are intimate with. Are you for detailing specific sexual acts that are different? What value is there in that?
The point is children should be taught to respect others. They may disagree with their orientation or not like their skin color or whatever, but they should be taught that every person has value and should be treated with equal respect. That would cover it for me.
You see a lot of kids are taught by their parents to think homosexuals are "diseased". The kids don't ever hear a contrasting voice so they take it for truth. If someone does not tell them how people became homosexual the kids will continue believing what their parents told them. Homosexuality(you may differ from me on this) is not a CHOICE but something an individual is born as. Anyone who tells me different must also answer this question. Why would anyone ever CHOOSE to be gay?
It is not up to the state to make sure children are given fair information, or counteract what their parents teach them, even if it is bigoted. Hopefully in that environment, children will grow up learning otherwise and become responsible adults in spite of their early learnings.
Unfortunately there are no tests that people have to pass in order to have children.
I guess you are right. The government has no right to tell people what to believe. I just wish people would open thier eyes to the hatred some of the radical right has been spreading. However I do agree we need a test for people to take before they have children! Maybe that is why Ann Coulter has none....
Just between you, me and the world -kids know a lot more about homosexuality then they are given credit for - that is, they know what it is - whether they think it is ok or not is another thing ....
It is not the medias that they decide by but by their compatriots and how they are raised - if their ''friends'' condemn homosexuality - they will - perhaps (they may have their own urges) .....
IF - their parents would discuss sex (sexuality?) freely with them - no use going there - very few would which makes ''bait'' for predators - curiousity, for one, is a heck of a turn-on for the young just feeling the start of their hormones - boys and girls ---- TV and Street Talk - has well informed kids about sex - that is, that it is ''exciting!" But! Taboo! .....
What does a kid want more - what he/she can have or what they are denied - specially in these days? .....
But! Only a good parent can prevent it - not by Harping on it (Like a certain Leader in the church) - but by explaing sex the best they can and if they get stuck on a question - go with their kid and find the answer (The Net, lately, can be a good resource - just do it together) - just don't say, "Wait until you are older" (The next day they are older, good kids know that) - like a rose - let them bloom to full splendor - not nipped in the bud so go all the way ---- course that doesn't explain the Foley Bashing .....
Grin, I got side-tracked and ranted ...... Pat
ambiguous, you didn't specify legal discrimination. Had I considered the legal context of your exchange with BarryG I would have taken a different approach. I stand by my comment about discrimination of gay people in the context of day to day living.
My apologies for the misunderstanding.
........is rampant among many in day to day living, by many in our society who choose to prejudge people based on many differences. Overweight people, race differences, gender, tall people, short people, ugly people, skinny people. The list is endless.
Thx for clearing that up Round House. These reply posts confuse me sometime lol.
But injustice towards homosexuals is not overblown. Although laws against homosexual acts are still on the books and not enforced, there are plenty of ways in which they are unjustly treated. Everyday, there are homosexuals being discriminated against. They're discriminated against when they try to buy or rent homes, when they apply for jobs and when they try to adopt children. They're not allowed to serve in the military. How many Arabic translators have been discharged for being gay? At the same time the military still has a desperate need for translators. The list goes on and on. This makes no sense.
To say that "the injustice argument against homosexuals is overblown" is in itself discriminatory towards gay people. I know thats not what you mean, Tommy.
I would agree with you regarding adoption, but that is not everywhere, only certain areas. And it is up to each municipality. Potential adoptive parent(s) should have the same scrutiny, regardless of their orientation. And I agree with you on the military as well. I should have made those clear in my earlier post. Here again, the same guidelines should be for straights and gays.
However, as for housing and renting and jobs, I am very libertarian here and I believe landlords and job creators have every right to hire or rent to whomever they choose to. This is not the government, this is private individuals and their personal choice.
I know this is off subject Tommy but I would like a short civics lesson if it is possible. What are the ideals of Libertarians? I heard the name before on telivision (Tucker and Scarborough claim to be Libertarian). Sorry if I sound stupid about this. Are they similar to Conservative?
I would be glad to but I headed away from this keyboard for awhile. If you google it I am sure you will get a good definition.
The cynics say that libertarians are just conservatives who want to smoke pot. That, in my case, is not true..........
Off, have a good night!
I had a nice chat. See you tomorrow maybe Tommy.
Sodomy is not strictly a homosexual act.
...but I doubt those laws were enacted to criminalize heterosexual relations.
I just did a quick google and Virginia might still have a law against any type of hetero or homosexual oral to genital sexual congress.
It's Virginia Statute ยง 18.2-361 Crimes against nature.
I'm not sure if it's still on the books, or if it's been invalidated by Lawrence V Texas.
Damn, I might be a felon myself.
Lots of states still have those laws but, as you guessed, they are unenforcable after Lawrence v. Texas.
I'm going back to VA in a few weeks and didn't want to be looking over my shoulder the whole time.
Those crafty homosexuals lobbied their Deep South state legislatures to lower the age of consent even though they themselves could not legally have sex at the time. Using the power of precognition that apparently comes with being homosexual, they knew that someday the Supreme Court would render the anti-sodomy laws unconstitutional.
Or so goes Buchanan's argument, I guess.
When I heard his statement I nearly laughed myself to death. He is getting a bit too old for the politics buisness...
why do most marraiges between cousins or underage (15 or less) occur in the red states? Aren't these "solid" republican moral values states?
But of course. It is the solid Republican value thing to do to marry your 15-year-old cousin when you knock her up.
Media Matters noted Buchanan's comment but did not provide any information about whether it was accurate.
It appears that the age of consent has been 16 in DC since 1901. There was a 1993 repeal of sodomy laws (regarding both homosexual and heterosexual conduct), but it did not change the age of consent. [link to www.sodomylaws.org]
You guys(gals?) talked intelligently - you sure you are in the right place? .....
Grin - sorry ..... Pat
Gay discrimination overblown? Try living a life in which you can be denied housing or denied the opportunity to donate blood or a kidney despite having a clean medical history. Try working and having to remain closeted because your co-workers and supervisors are homophobes and you fear losing your job if you are yourself or stand up to protect yourself. Try renting an apartment with your partner and see if you can keep a smile on your face while being scrutinized by a leasing agent. Try living with the giggles and jokes made behind your back or even to your face because of your sexuality. Tell me how overblown things are when your car windows are broken out for displaying a rainbow flag or HRC sticker. Get a swastika and "Die AIDS F#ggot" carved into your apartment door only to have the police department shrug and say that these things happen- tell me then how overblown the discrimination really is. Finally, try to understand how it feels to have the federal government tell you that you are good enough to pay taxes and to fund a war but not human enough to be married to the one that you truly love. We cry out for blood and justice when discrimination and violence against women, blacks, lationos, asians, jews, and all others occur but still giggle when a friend tells a f#ggot or d@ke joke...discrimination against us is not overblown. Sorry for the rant...
I think the Buchanan quote word "holy" should be "wholly". More on character, doncha think? Ron up North