Media suggested conservative Christians are particularly outraged by Foley scandal
SUMMARY: In their coverage of the Foley scandal's political effects, numerous media figures have suggested that conservative Christians are most likely to react negatively to the Foley scandal. In doing so, they presume that so-called "values voters" are more concerned than others with protecting children.
In the week following reports that former Rep. Mark Foley (R-FL) had allegedly sent sexually explicit messages to former congressional pages, numerous media figures have suggested that conservative Christians are most likely to react negatively to the scandal. Embedded in those claims is the assumption that so-called "values voters" are more concerned than others with protecting children and condemn more harshly than others allegations of a cover-up of alleged predatory behavior toward children.
In his October 7 column, headlined " 'Family Values' for All of Us," Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne took issue with this assumption. Noting that "the widespread reaction to the Foley episode was that it would hurt the Republicans with their 'base' of Christian and moral conservatives," Dionne wrote:
[T]he implication here is that those of us who are not conservatives might somehow be less affected by what Foley did. Excuse me, but I am a married father of three, and that's more important to me than the fact that I am a liberal. Our kids matter infinitely more to my wife and me than the results of an election, even an election we both care a lot about.
[...]
"Family values" is more than a political slogan to be pulled off the shelf at election time. Republicans and conservatives do not have a monopoly on the commitments behind the phrase.
On the October 8 edition of the NBC-syndicated Chris Matthews Show, NBC News chief Washington correspondent Norah O'Donnell responded similarly when asked by host Chris Matthews whether the Foley scandal would cause a rupture between "traditional values" conservatives and "regular Republicans." "No," O'Donnell said in response, "because I think this is an issue about bad behavior." She went on to state that "this issue is, in effect, about an abusive man" and about the House leadership's alleged failure to take "action against someone who was potentially abusing children."
Further, in an article in the October 8 issue of Newsweek, assistant managing editor Evan Thomas quoted veteran Republican pollster Matt Dowd dismissing the idea that the scandal would have a disproportionate effect on "family values" voters. From the article:
It's not just the voters who care about "family values" who might be driven away, said Matt Dowd, Bush's longtime pollster. The brouhaha on the Hill threatens what Dowd calls "the gut values" relationship between voters and politicians they trust. "Values always determine elections," says Dowd. "Deep gut values, like 'Do I trust someone?' "
The above statements followed more than a week of widespread coverage of the Foley scandal, during which the idea rebutted by Dionne, O'Donnell, and Dowd -- that conservative Christians would naturally have a particularly negative response to the story -- was repeatedly advanced by media figures:
- Newsweek columnist Howard Fineman stated that the "Foley story is aimed right at" those "evangelical Bible-believing Christians" who have strongly supported Republicans in the past. (MSNBC's Countdown, 10/3/06)
- MSNBC anchor Amy Robach reported that "the big concern among the GOP right now is that this latest scandal, the Mark Foley scandal, might cause those conservative Christians, that moral-voter voting bloc, to not head out to the polls." (MSNBC's Countdown, 10/3/06)
- CNN host Paula Zahn said that, as a result of the Foley scandal, "Republicans are getting hit where it really hurts, among values voters." (CNN's Paula Zahn Now, 10/3/06)
- NBC Nightly News anchor Brian Williams stated, "[O]ne of the big questions for Republicans with just 34 days until the election is whether the Foley scandal specifically will keep social conservatives from showing up at the polls." (NBC's Nightly News, 10/4/06)
- CNN congressional correspondent Dana Bash noted that "Republicans are really counting on every vote they can get" and added that their current concern is "that these conservatives already were mad. Fiscal conservatives because they feel spending has gone way up. Now it's the social conservatives who these House members have been trying to appeal to, but not anymore" -- as if fiscal conservatives would not also be outraged by alleged efforts to cover up predatory behavior toward children. (CNN's Paula Zahn Now, 10/6/06)
- Roll Call executive editor Morton M. Kondracke stated, "[W]hat the Republicans rely on for their base is morality voters, values voters, married women with children, and evangelicals, and those people are dismayed by this whole thing." (Fox News' Special Report, 10/6/06)
- CNN national correspondent Keith Oppenheim reported, "One voter I spoke with said that he believes other voters will be much more influenced by other issues, like the war in Iraq, than by the Foley scandal. It's a fair point. But still, the question, in close races: Will social conservatives be so turned off that they will turn away at the polls at the risk of losing some Republican control in Congress?" (CNN Saturday Morning News, 10/7/06)
- CNN national correspondent Sumi Das reported that "at stake" in the GOP response to the Foley scandal is the support of "voters key to the Republican base, social and religious conservatives." (CNN Sunday Morning, 10/8/06)
- CNN anchor Carol Lin
reported that the "scandal is infuriating religious conservatives. But will
they express that anger with their vote 30 days from now?" (CNN Newsroom, 10/8/06)
From the October 8 edition of the NBC-syndicated Chris Matthews Show:
MATTHEWS: We know there is a rupture here between the traditional conservatives and the establishment types who have been apparently covering this thing up. Is this divorce for real? Is there really going to be a breakup now permanently? You write about this, Andrew. Is there going to be a breakup now between the traditional values people who say, "I'm against gay marriage. I'm against gay teachers having my kids in the classroom. That's why I believe in home schooling and all that stuff. I'm so against this secularism." Will that break that away -- that crowd away from the regular Republicans? Norah, you want to go first?
O'DONNELL: No, because I think this is an issue about bad behavior. I mean, and this is a -- what Democrats will argue is that this is an issue about competence and power and did the leadership cover up -- or were there aides who covered up for their leaders -- in not taking action against someone who was potentially abusing children. And that's a larger issue.
MATTHEWS: You mean, they don't share -- they don't share the values of the liberals.
O'DONNELL: I think if the Republicans lose both houses of Congress, then inevitably that will cause the Republican Party to have some soul-searching that goes on. But this issue, in effect, is about an abusive man.
From the October 3 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann:
AMY ROBACH (guest host): Howard, obviously the big concern among the GOP right now is that this latest scandal, the Mark Foley scandal, might cause those conservative Christians, that moral-voter voting bloc, to not head out to the polls. And then you've got the NIE [National Intelligence Estimate] reports and the [Washington Post assistant managing editor Bob] Woodward book that might actually convince moderates and independents to vote in this election. Any sense of who may decide who takes control of Congress?
FINEMAN: Well, I think the moderates and independents are arguably less important than those evangelical Bible-believing Christians. The Republican Party has been built, especially in recent years, on very heavy turnout by those folks. They also man the machinery of the Republican Party. They do the phone calls, they lick the envelopes, they are the foot soldiers.
If they don't show up, both as volunteers and as voters, the Republicans are going to lose this time around. And the Foley story is aimed right at those people and depressing that turnout.
From the October 3 edition of CNN's Paula Zahn Now:
ZAHN: It is being called the political perfect storm: the Foley scandal, Bob Woodward's new book on the Bush administration's handling of the war in Iraq on top of a year's worth of other scandals. It all may add up to a Republican disaster on Election Day, just five weeks away. That is tonight's top story in politics right now. Republicans are getting hit where it really hurts, among values voters and voters who think Republicans are tougher on national security.
From the October 4 edition of NBC's Nightly News:
WILLIAMS: And beyond politics, one of the big questions for Republicans with just 34 days until the election is whether the Foley scandal specifically will keep social conservatives from showing up at the polls. Many were already disillusioned with the way things have been going, and it may again come down to turnout this November.
From the October 6 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume:
KONDRACKE: Now, what are they going to change the subject to? They don't -- you know, they're not going to want to talk about Iraq. I guess they want to go back to terrorism. I don't think that arguing over [former Rep.] Gerry Studds [D-MA] or [Rep.] Barney Frank [D-MA] is going to really change the subject, it's just going to rivet attention back on this. Because look, what the Republicans rely on for their base is morality voters, values voters, married women with children, and evangelicals, and those people are dismayed by this whole thing.
From the October 6 edition of CNN's Paula Zahn Now:
BASH: Talk to Republicans, they say, look, if a certain number of conservatives decide, you know, we're just not going to go vote, we're so angry, in some of these really tight races, where Republicans are really counting on every vote they can get, that could really tip the balance of control of Congress.
And that is their big concern right now, that these conservatives already were mad. Fiscal conservatives because they feel like the spending has gone way up. Now it's the social conservatives who these House members have been trying to appeal to, but not anymore.
From the 8 a.m. ET hour of the October 7 edition of CNN Saturday Morning News:
OPPENHEIM: One voter I spoke with said that he believes other voters will be much more influenced by other issues, like the war in Iraq, than by the Foley scandal. It's a fair point. But still, the question, in close races: Will social conservatives be so turned off that they will turn away at the polls at the risk of losing some Republican control in Congress?
From the 7 a.m. ET hour of the October 8 edition of CNN Sunday Morning:
DAS: Hastert has dismissed calls for his resignation. An editorial in The Wall Street Journal agrees, saying it would be a disservice to send voters to the polls amid tumult over Mark Foley, citing more pressing issues like national security. With midterm elections nearing, time is of the essence. At stake, voters key to the Republican base, social and religious conservatives.
From the October 8 edition of CNN Newsroom:
LIN: And an unnamed U.S. soldier in Iraq talked to the FBI about Foley. Turns out he served as a page on Capitol Hill. The scandal is infuriating religious conservatives. But will they express that anger with their vote 30 days from now?















It's not that conservative Christian "values voters" are more concerned than others about protecting children, it's that the Christian conservatives have been betrayed by the Republicans who purportedly represented their conservative family "values". Imagine how they must feel...
MMFA is barking up the wrong tree on this one, and they are doing themselves a disservice by misinterpreting these news reports. If MMFA wants to maintain their status as "Media Watchdog," and not stray too far down the path of "Left-wing Spin Machine" they need to steer clear of traps like these. Nearly every example MMFA cites relates to the media's perception that the Foley scandal will be bad for Republicans because it will cost them their "values" voters. No one said they felt that so-called "social" conservatives care more about children's safety than liberals. What they are saying is that the Republicans stand to lose a good portion of this "values" base. It's a voting issue, not a morals and values issue. If a significant portion of the social conservatives vote Democrat or don't vote at all, it hurts the Republican party. The idea that the Foley scandal resonates more with social conservatives now is a function of the context. If there were no election, you would probably still hear some of this rhetoric, but not nearly as much and the Foley scandal would not be the bombshell it is now without the looming.
So, no, I don't believe the media is claiming that liberals care less about family issues than conservatives. Certainly this perception exists on the right (as Ann Coulter and Pat Robertson would have you believe), but that is not what is being said here. What the media are getting at, and what most of us already know, is that the voting behavior of conservative "followers" is much more easily swayed by so-called "values" issues. I look at this more as an indictment of a historically maleable voting bloc rather than a commentary on who really cares about values.
" So, no, I don't believe the media is claiming that liberals care less about family issues than conservatives. Certainly this perception exists on the right (as Ann Coulter and Pat Robertson would have you believe), "
I have to disagree with that one. YES, whether the media is claiming it or not, the liberals certainly care less about family issues! The current discussion at MMFA concerning the NAMBLA goes to show the lengths that liberals will go to protect one of their "rights" issues. That is only one example, if I had a couple days I could fill this site up with examples that liberals DO care less about family issues.
You suffer from the same delusion that fills the current GOP and its followers -- that is, if you throw the word 'family' or 'value' onto any action... it makes it so... it is because you (or whomever) says so.
Freedom, liberty and justice ARE family values, okay. That may sound trite. But, it's true. Respect for the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, laws, honest debate, fair-play... these are ALL family values, if you ask me.
Yet... we always will here the so-called 'debate' boiled down to particular instances... NAMBLA, etc. The crux of a case like NAMBLA (and, yes, I think the notion is frankly disgusting)... but, the crux of the NAMBLA case is protecting individual freedoms. Perhaps, lines should be drawn -- but, that is a mighty slippery slope -- which is getting more and more slippery as days pass with this current administration.
Let's bring it to a more reasonable topic -- warrantless wiretapping. Isn't the right to privacy a Family Value? Or, do so-called Family Values only revolve around little babies and Mommy and Daddy? Grow up .
When the Rightee Tightees say "family values", they are really talking about narrow minded, regressive, paranoid Christian sex-o-phobic dogma. They just tacked the "family" label on it to broaden the number of people they could sucker with their rhetoric. Since the Left usually doesn't go along with their medieval agenda, they get to say that the Left opposes "family values".
I've had 'discussions' with righties in the past about the use of particular words -- like 'family values' has some set, unflappable meaning ... 'it is because we say it is!!' And, that's the end of the discussion. Like, in reality, 'family values' actually means anything??!! It's a made-up campaign tagline. Debating nonsense leads only to more nonsense.
The ACLU defends NAMBLA on the basis that talking about something isn't the same as doing it. It's basically the same as much of the GOPs defense of Foley.
Also the fact that people like Dobson shrugged this off undermines their credibility on moral issues.
He mentioned something about "family values," or "traditional values." I believe he was going to try to make that a hallmark for his second term. Then, someone pointed out that he was the first {and so far, only} divoriced man to become president . . . after that, I never heard the words "family values" escape from his lips the rest of his presidency . . .
So, conservative Chirstians are "particularly" outraged by the Foley scandal . . . I would think any parent would be outraged . . . heck, since this concerns an elected official, I would think any taxpayer would be particularly outraged . . . or maybe only the taxpayers in his district should be "particularly" outraged {oh wait, I forgot, its their fault . . .}
E.J. Dionne's view is one that is held by many but sadly, expressed publicly by far too few in the MSM.
The term 'values voters' was coined by Karl Rove as a code word to describe those with allegedly 'values' in an attempt to 'wedge' issues, and that's what MMFA is talking about and about time! I have always disliked that term, it does a total disservice to those who hold 'values' different from those by the Religious right.
The media should call it like it is, they always are overly eager to use the frame 'liberals' for everyone else, well, they should be using the percise terminology to describe what they are referring to the 'religious right'..
If someone were to ask me if I were a 'values voter' and not go beyind that term, I would say of course, because I do vote my 'values' the value and morality of our Constitution, the value of being against all the corruption brought about by the Abramoff scandal and the lack of morality in that the Republicans in the House have never held not even on 'investigation', the lack of moral values of the passing excessive tax breaks for the wealthy--the immoral budget deficit, and increasing nation debt--and I could go on, but you see, in co opting that Rovian 'wedge term' those aren't the 'same' values as those 'other 'values voters'.
Spot on MMFA!!! I am writing to each of these news sources demanding that they speak specifically when referring to teh 'religous right' and not the confusing wedge frame of 'vaules voters"--.
I agree that evangelical Christians aren't going to be more outraged than anyone else about this, but I do think that it hits them harder in terms of politics, because they stand on their morality, high-horse and when they have a Republican involved in such a scandal, it takes the wind out of their sails. These are the last core holdouts for the Republicans.
Wait a minute...people are talking about the Foley scandal, and they are actually level-headed and reasonable?
I just can't comprehend this.
Okay let me get this straight...people on Hardball are ACTUALLY saying that this is simply an issue about a man doing wrong things and that "conservative Christians" care more about values? This actually happened WITHIN the media? I just don't get it...they're actually reasonable?
What's going on here? I remember a few weeks ago I saw Cinton on Fox News. A democrat actually talked back??? Let me see if I got this straight here: a liberal, on Fox, did NOT let himself get stomped on? And talked back and stood up for himself? I just don't get it!
What's going on?
they are just SOOOO outraged. So why do they keep electing these Greedy Old Perverts (GOP) in the first place. All you have to do is pander to their religious fanatacism, spout some gay-bashing venom, promise to rid their poor downtrodden country of the evils of liberalism, and you've got their vote. Give me a break.
" they are just SOOOO outraged. So why do they keep electing these Greedy Old Perverts (GOP) in the first place. "
I guess the same way that liberals keeping electing KKK leadership into office! The conservative Christians are the ones who don't want pervert groups like 'gay-this', and 'gay-that' to be allowed equal entrance into school curriculums, but are labeled as homophobic when they DO complain. Now, we are blamed for electing "greedy old perverts" into office when it is the liberal (and their lack of moral standards) that allowed and promoted the greedy old pervert to "be himself" in the first place.
If you don't like being labeled homophobic, you should stop acting like such a homophobe.
Maybe your nickname should be Gayhater.
Republichater: "Now, we are blamed for electing "greedy old perverts" into office when it is the liberal (and their lack of moral standards) that allowed and promoted the greedy old pervert to "be himself" in the first place."
Dude, like it or not, you guys elected Foley. And you know what? There are reportedly a number of other closeted gay Republican leaders too. Democrats may favor an environment in which a gay person can "be himself" without the deceit and hypocricy that characterizes the Republican Party... but no one has ever encouraged any man, gay or straight, who sexually preys on teenagers to "be himself".
Either you Republicans lack a "logic" gene or you simply enjoy distorting things.
What a shame that these value voters aren't as upset about the thousand of families who are suffering tonight as a result of illegal war.
It just goes to show how ignorant these conservative voters are. They tend to vote on emotion rather than rationale. They tend to respond more to knee-jerk reaction issues (the Foley scandal) than from more cumulative issues (Iraq, the economy).
The GOP has been exploiting these voters for a long time, and I really don't mind seeing the Democrats getting some of their just desserts. I mean, it isn't like the Dems dug up this story or simply made it up, as is standard operating procedure for the GOP. It fell right in their lap, so good for them. With the scandal and apparent cover-up, the Democrats have found an issue that cuts at the core of the entire Republican party.
I often force myself to listen to Rush Limbaugh, just to see what Rove's latest talking points are. Rush often talks about how Liberals are driven by emotion. As you point out, it is the Right that uses emotion to promote its agenda. All of their big issues, from the Ten Commandments to Gay Marriage to the War on Turr are all driven by fear. There is no rationality to be found in their positions on these issues.
these wingnut religious Values Voters will be so disgusted by the behavior of so many among the Pug leadership that they'll sit on their hands this November, & not bother to vote.
I have become more and more apathetic about both parties over the last year. Neither one has more than half a dozen good candidates. I think if everyone had their wits about it, we would all sit on our hands and make sure no one got voted into office. Think that would send a signal?
Since that's not a viable solution, I think you're wrong that conservative Christians won't vote. I think that the current political environment gives people more reason to vote. Especially Conservative Christians. Why? Nancy Pelosi.
Has anybody studying l'affaire Foley and its reactions among the Pseudoreligiopolitical Right's followers considered the possibility that these "values voters" might look @ casting protest votes for hyperconservative third-party movements who themselves enjoy playing the "Traditional Values" card to (unfortunately) lure the unwitting into a neo-Nazi/Fascistic agenda?
appears to be more than Conservative Christians outraged by what is happening in WA, DC. I have talked to several people that say it is time for change, but are concerned the same types of "scandals" will occur again in 10 - 16 years, involving the party in power over that period of time. The big problem is we need more turnover in the House and Senate than we get. I'm positive there are West Virginians and Alaskans just as capable of serving in the Senate as the two old war horses that occupy the Senior seats from those states. Three terms for a Senator, five for a Representative (max) and then send them packing!!!!!
7 years total, only 3 years in a row. Articles of Confederation, our first federal constitution, had term limits for Congress.
At some level, whether it's 7 years or 10-18 years. Lets bring Statesmanship back to the arena, replace "serve until death" mentality that is so prevalent in politics today. If the President can only serve two terms, there is absolutely no reason why representatives/senators have to think they have a lifelong hold on a job. Serve your term and then go and earn a living like the rest of us.
When Gingrich took out his Contract on America didn't it mention something about term limit?
only to the extent that would limit the terms of all committee chairs. Not house or congress membership.
Boy are you wrong. Term limits for people in Congress was one of the cornerstone planks presented in the Contract with America. They harped on it more than any other issue in the 1994 elections, and it had nothing to do with serving on committees. Good grief.
Then, of course, they came into power, and they lost their taste for the issue. "What? Limit ourselves?" Hypocrisy, thy name is Newt.
Now, if you're going to be in favor of term limits, as Oscar the Grouch clearly shows in his comments above, then you need to take a principled stand and always be in favor, whichever party is in power. And likewise, if you oppose them (like me), then you should always oppose them. The fact that so many people have been willing to compromise their principles in order to maintain power is a key reason that Congress' approval rating is so dismal.
Gee, I guess I'm not as smart as you. I don't see anything listed about term limits for congress, maybe that was one of the many items vetoed by Clinton. So, I doubt that they lost interest in having limits, it was probably Clinton vetoeing it and you blaming it on the republicans. The only reason I think that is because it is a typical liberal strategy....'do the stink, then blame someone else'.
Government reform On the first day of their majority, the Republicans promised to hold floor votes on eight reforms of government operations:
require all laws that apply to the rest of the country also apply to Congress;/ select a major, independent auditing firm to conduct a comprehensive audit of Congress for waste, fraud or abuse;/ cut the number of House committees, and cut committee staff by one-third;/ limit the terms of all committee chairs;/ ban the casting of proxy votes in committee;/ require committee meetings to be open to the public;/ require a three-fifths majority vote to pass a tax increase;/ and implement a zero base-line budgeting process for the annual Federal Budget.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Contract on America, I almost missed that one!
I actually attended the FRC Values Voter Summit, and I have a comprehensive report of that conference.
[link to sailerfraud.blogspot.com]
I must say it was filled with lies, misinformation, hypocrisy, right-wing extremist propoganda, religious fanaticism and falsehoods, bigotry, and overall garabge.
have no kids, I'm not religious, and I seem to be a lot more "outraged" than all of the self-proclaimed "values" mouthpieces on TV and radio.
I guess that's just partisan politics and "Bush-hating" on my part.
Let the Conservative Christians be particularly outraged, play the tape of that outrage from the bell towers. I do not care, nor do I care how it is phrased. However, if they vote for a Republican slate I think we will all know what they truly are, "full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing." (W.S.) And we the public should take all there moral high horsing as just that and we should be outraged at their hypocrisy.
Wouldn't you consider conservative Christians to be even MORE hypocritical if they voted for a full slate of 'abortion loving', 'gay-rights promoting', 'sex for free advocating' liberal democrats?? I think the 'lesser of two evils' comes into play on this one. At least the immoral republicans promote the ideas of conservative Christians, even if they don't follow what they are teaching. If we voted for a bunch of liberals then having perverts in washington would be the norm, not the exception.
are you suggesting it is better to simply accept the drivel drooled out by right-wing phonies who are simply pandering to religious conservatives in order to get their vote, only to turn around and wage economic warfare on them, betray their values by doing NOTHING to advance their agenda except a phony "culture of life" circus sideshow around Terry Schaivo; and honor their christian beliefs by waging an unnecessary and savage war on a non-threatening country resulting in the brutal slaughter of tens of thousands of civilian men, women, and children; and the deaths and mutiliations of thousands of brave young American men and women. Is that the "lesser of two evils" you mean? Huh?
Yes. Everyone knows that if Clinton had stayed in office he would have done the same thing. And we've seen how democrats run wars (Vietnam). Careful you don't break a leg when you jump off your horse.
Schaivo is a case where your 'cruel and unusual' punishment liberals thought it was OK to starve and dehydrate a woman to death. But, you complain out the ying-yang about a murderer being given pain medicine before he is executed!
Really... I didn't know that. (Maybe I was sick and didn't watch FOX that day.)
Yeah, Johnson blew Vietnam, but Nixon didn't do much better. So, I suppose you want to hold up Iraq as a prime example of how Republicans run wars? Please do.
Johnson? Heck, Kennedy blew Vietnam! Johnson just continued where Kennedy left off. And it was NIXON who got us OUT of Vietnam. That will be a very funny point, soon (if liberals have their way). Think about it...Nixon got us out of a 'liberal war based on lies' and you consider him as inept as Johnson. When (IF) a liberal gets us out of this war will you consider 'that liberal' just as inept as Bush or will he be considered a hero?
...'sex for free advocating' liberal democrats...
Gayhater, are you saying that sex should cost money? Are you advocating prostitution?
Did he, perchance, mean "free-love-advocating"?
That the average Religious Right troglodyte is MORE outraged about Foley's homosexuality than his trolling for underage boys.
The troglodyte leaders are even more outraged that this inconvenient scandal may cost them their stranglehold on government.
your average liberal thinks both are ok and should be legalized so no more men get in trouble for doing these acts. In a liberal mind there is nothing wrong with being gay and nothing wrong with children experimenting. In a liberal mind, both go hand-in-hand...gay-->children. See what liberalism gets you, and NOW you complain when a gay REPUBLICAN seaches out kids. You didn't seem to have any problems when gay DEMOCRAT Studds was screwing kids, did you? But now that the gay is a republican you find it totally distasteful!
If you really believe all that garbage you're saying, you're even farther gone than Savage.
You're full of crap. Please find me a typical liberal who thinks having sex with underage kids is OK. Can't do it? I guess that makes you a liar then, huh?
Let's see ... CONSERVATIVE VALUES include fiscal responsibility -- SMALLER government, balanced budget, NO deficit spending.
All BETRAYED by Bush.
CONSERVATIVES traditionally favor NON-INTERFERENCE in foreign affairs, following the LAW and the Constitution (Geneva Convention, due process), and open and accountable government.
All BETRAYED by Bush.
CONSERVATIVES insist on protecting America's borders, insist on projecting American VALUES of truth, justice, and fair play -- to the world through our actions.
All BETRAYED by Bush.
CONSERVATIVES want the government to stay OUT of our personal lives, to honor our privacy and ALL our Rights under the Constitution.
All BETRAYED by Bush.
SOME of the Conservatives are also "VALUE" voters. They wish different things for America than the traditional Conservatives. They wish for Government to act as a Moral Policeman, passing and enforcing laws promoting a "traditional" view of human sexuality and culture.
This view calls for power to be invested in Heterosexual White Males who are married and have children, and who will make laws insisting that ALL follow this "model" of proper behavior. No gay marriage, no gays PERIOD to the greatest extent managable, NO abortion, NO separation between church and state, NO books or movies or any media that is not "morally pure", and so on; these are THEIR goals, and the Government should use its power to guarantee these outcomes.
Sadly, even THIS view of a "Conservative America" has been BETRAYED by Bush.
In short, WHATEVER a "conservative" voter voted for Bush to get, they did not get it.
Instead, what America got was an elitist PLUTOCRAT who would use America's global power to acheive goals of expanding the wealth of his friends. That's IT, and at this goal, Bush has been highly successful. Our overall security, our "values", our principles and ideals, our very wellbeing, are of no concern to this president AND his party. Workers, soldiers, church-goers are all just PAWNS to be exploited to achieve the goal of amassing wealth in the very few hands.
And America -- finally -- has woken up to that FACT.
all except that pesky 33% of ostrich-type, faux news watching, slack jawed, drooling morons who believe anything Rush Limbaugh ladles out to them.
Thanks for letting us in on your thought processes. Very illuminating. There have been many fine rants on this thread. They are fun to read.
However it looks to me like your analysis and conclusions are not based in reality. My guess is that is why the left has been getting beaten these past few elections.
You have the right to pass off your Bush-hating opinions as arguments in order to advance your theory that Bush is a betrayer. Yes you have the right. But rants like this, while encouraged and applauded by others on the fringe, do nothing (IMHO) to advance your position to a casual observer. It is so filled with vitriol that anyone can see you are an extremist.
So I'm sure the choir loved the sermon, but I strongly doubt that you converted anyone else.
Where was Tex wrong?
His rant is simply his thinly veiled opinion.
He is free to interpret every action of Bush as a betrayal, but just because he decided to characterize everything such, does not mean his interpretation is close to reality.
You see it all the time, the radical leftists have their interpretation of events, (like Tex here,) they then base everything on their interpretation. They leave no room for another interpretation than their own.
Therefore anyone who holds a contrary opnion has to be "brain dead", "troglodytes" "hate filled" and "pliable, maleable authoritarian following faux Christians who are self righteous liars" just to name a few descriptions here in this thread.
So many of you are so invested in this point of view that you cannot see that Tex is only spouting his interpretation of events. It's not that he's wrong, it's just that his interpretation is no where near the interpretation of the vast majority of evangelicals.
The radicals here for the most part hold his world-view so he speaks to their world view. However evangelicals have such a different world-view that to them Tex might as well be speaking in Farsi.
So you're saying right-wing evangelicals are actually pleased with the way the last six years have gone?
That's messed up.
What part of "extremism is bad" did you not understand? He just pointed out that the liberal extremist doesn't allow for ANY other opinion, which is not helpful to anyone. So, what do you do? Bring out an example of conservative extremism and expect it to be a viable example, which is not helpful to anyone.
Do you do this for a living or are you just good at it?
Elitist Republican Tucker Carlson admits to Chris Matthews that "the elites in the Republican Party have pure contempt for the evangelicals who put their party in power."
But the saps keep lining up to vote Republican anyway.
Read about/see it here: [link to www.crooksandliars.com]
William F. Buckley admitted the same thing years ago.
but I don't doubt your comment.
My question is, where do these evangelical conservatives going to go politically? Are they going to vote Democratic?
The evangelicals see that Democrats as a group come down in favor of abortion. The evangelicals see that the Dems want to cut and run out of Iraq. The Dems want to reduce defense spending. Dems want to increase taxes. Dems push the homosexual agenda. Dems want unfettered government support of embryonic stem cell research. And on top of all that, many are openly contemptible of evangelicals.
So even if the evangelicals are treated as Carlson says, my guess is they feel that the Republican positions are a lot closer to their values than the Democrats.
Even with the low approval ratings by Bush and the recent scandal by Foley, I think the fear of Pelosi and Reid in control of Congress will motivate a lot of evangelicals to go with the lesser of two evils.
First of all, there's not a unified "evangelical position" on the issues you cite. Jimmy Carter is an evangelical, remember.
Second, there is no reason to think that Jesus would have taught his followers to take the Republican position on war, defense, taxes, and "the homosexual agenda." Please feel free to cite His words to the contrary.
I see that you've memorized them all. So, what exactly is the "homosexual agenda"? If I'm pushing it, I'd like to know what the hell it is.
The real point is, Christian Conservatives who believed the GOP represented their views now see they have been betrayed and they are taking it personally, as they should. Liberals are merely having their opinions confirmed.
Nothing new here. the media has taken the view that the religious right has all exclusive rights and priviledges to 'family values' for a long time, never even insinuating that for all intents and purposes the likes of Jerry Falwell and the Family Research Council, through their intolerance and hate-filled rhetoric, have done everything they could to show contempt for all things that make family worthwhile.
Paula Zahn: Probably the best out there! :)
really does hate the republic since he's willing to be brainwashed and follow King George off the cliff. Neocons have NO values except enriching themselves and hood winking pliable, maleable authoritarian following faux Christians who are self righteous liars. Back up a truck to haul that load of garbage away. Sheesh.
Great posts, Tex et al..
Republichater is right about one thing. The "christian" conservatives will continue to vote republican. They have no where else to go. His blaming of liberals for creating the present culture is way off-base, however. What the "christian" right fails to understand is this: The modern American culture they so deplore is market-driven. It is Time-Warner, GE, Fox, that sell the TV shows with sex, violence and raw humor to the MARKET. These same corporations SELL commercial time to OTHER large corporations who use youth and sex appeal and raunchy humor to sell beer, toothpaste and Viagra to the MARKET. The MARKET drives the culture in America. The MARKET is demanding more graphic sex and language all the time. Yet the biggest Republican donors are these selfsame corporations that so offend the "christian" right's sensibilities. If the right is so upset about "liberal" values, take it to the boards of Fox, GE, and Time-Warner and vote with your pocketbooks.
You are so right. It's the money whores and big corporations who are selling this stuff. The Hollywood liberals like to have their artistic license to make the stuff but it's definately the righties who are selling it. They don't seem to be too offended to make a buck. But since they own almost all the media outlets now, they can sell the stuff all they want and still moan about those sicko liberal Hollywood types.
quit projecting your lack of values and man/boy love crap unto the rest of us. Oh brainwashed one thou doth protest too much.