O'Reilly and Hannity cropped Ted Turner quote to falsely accuse Turner of having "a hard time choosing sides in the war on terror"
SUMMARY: Fox News hosts Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly, and their conservative guests misrepresented a remark by Ted Turner to falsely accuse Turner, as Hannity stated, of "admitting that he had a hard time choosing sides in the war on terror."
On the October 10 editions of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor and Hannity & Colmes, hosts Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity, and their conservative guests, misrepresented a remark Ted Turner made during an October 9 appearance at a National Press Club luncheon to falsely accuse Turner, as Hannity stated, of "admitting that he had a hard time choosing sides in the war on terror." On The O'Reilly Factor, O'Reilly seized on Turner's remarks to ask, "Why do you hate America, Ted." On Hannity & Colmes, despite being informed otherwise, Media Research Center President L. Brent Bozell III twice falsely claimed that Turner "specifically referenced the war on terror" in his remarks. In fact, Turner was referring to whether he supported the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 when he stated "I really hadn't made my mind up yet" and made no mention of the "war on terror" in the comments highlighted by O'Reilly and Hannity.
Turner spoke before the National Press Club on October 9. During the luncheon's question-and-answer portion, Turner was asked: "What do you think of the fact that -- well, not you, but other people have been, when they've criticized the Iraq war, criticized the U.S. government conduct ...their patriotism has been questioned." Turner replied:
TURNER: Well, I don't like to see -- you know, there are a lot of things about this war that disturb me. And one of them is the attitude that was well-expressed by our president. He said it very clearly. He said, "Either you're with us or you're against us."
And I had a problem with that, because I really hadn't made my mind up yet.
You know, what if you haven't made your mind up? You know, what if you're thinking about it, doing some studying, and doing some reading? Because it's an important decision to go to war, whether or not to go to war.
I mean, "You're either with us or against us" -- that's pretty black and white. And just because you disagree with me about it doesn't mean you're not a patriot, as far as I'm concerned.
In his response, Turner also mentioned his family's military background, his father's service in World War II, and how the Vietnam War affected how he evaluated the government's arguments for going to war.
But O'Reilly and Hannity cropped Turner's remarks to assert that Turner could not make up his mind whether to support America in the "war on terror." For instance, on Hannity & Colmes, Hannity aired only the beginning of Turner's response and omitted the question to which Turner was responding. O'Reilly aired a nearly identical video clip, cropping the quote in the same manner as Hannity, and also omitting the question posed to Turner. From Hannity and Colmes:
TURNER [video clip]: "Either you're with us or you're against us." And I had a problem with that, because I really hadn't made my mind up yet. You know, what if you haven't made your mind up? You know, what if you're thinking about it, doing some studying, and doing some reading? Because it's an important decision to go to war, whether or not go to war. I mean, "You're either with us or you're against us" -- that's pretty black and white.
Responding to the video clip, Hannity stated: "That was CNN founder, former media mogul Ted Turner speaking at the National Press Club in Washington yesterday, while admitting that he had a hard time choosing sides in the war on terror." Bozell, who appeared on Hannity & Colmes with Boston University professor and former ABC News reporter Bob Zelnick to discuss Turner's remarks, asserted that, due to Turner's comments: "I think it's time for Democrats to speak up. Either they support this man or they should condemn him." Zelnick opined: "I find it hard to believe that even a delusional American would say something as crass as not being able to choose between the terrorists and his own country." Further, despite the fact that co-host Alan Colmes noted that Turner was referring to the Iraq war not the "war on terror," Bozell twice falsely claimed that Turner's "answer specifically twice referenced the war on terror. Not Iraq." In fact, Turner made no specific references to the "war on terror" in his response.
For his part, O'Reilly used Turner's remarks to declare that Turner "epitomized" "the secular-progressive movement," and later as fodder to attack Turner with conservative radio host Laura Ingraham. Ingraham announced "a message to Ted Turner: You would be the first person, or one of the first people, put up against a wall and shot in an Islamic society," and asserted that "the progressives, the liberals, the leftists, who Ted Turner really does represent" are "so overwhelmed with hatred for [President George W.] Bush" that they "don't seem to understand" that "militant Islamists" want to kill Americans. O'Reilly agreed and later stated that Turner "is terribly misguided" and "embraces Fidel Castro." O'Reilly asked: "Why do you hate America, Ted?"
From the October 10 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:
O'REILLY: Here in the USA, the secular-progressive movement is epitomized by our pal, Ted Turner, the founder of CNN. Yesterday, Turner said this about the war on terror and President Bush.
TURNER [video clip]: And he said it very clearly. He said, "Either you're with us or you're against us." And I had a problem with that, because I really hadn't made my mind up yet. You know, what if you haven't made your mind up? You know, what if you're thinking about it, doing some studying, and doing some reading? Because it's an important decision to go to war, whether or not to go to war. I mean, "You're either with us or against us" -- that's pretty black and white.
O'REILLY: All right. As we all know, the S-Ps hate black and white. There's no good and evil in that world. There's no right or wrong. Everything is gray. That is why, today, you have some far-left elements blaming America for North Korea's actions. Pitiful.
[...]
INGRAHAM: Well, here's the problem, is that the progressives, the liberals, the leftists, who Ted Turner really does represent, they didn't think they had a dog in the fight when we were in the Cold War. And now they don't think they have a dog in this fight. Remember, Ted Turner founded CNN. CNN does not consider itself America's network. CNN considers itself a global network.
O'REILLY: That's true.
INGRAHAM: And a message to Ted Turner: You would be the first person, or one of the first people, put up against a wall and shot in an Islamic society. They don't seem to understand that their lives are imperiled if we lose this great struggle against the militant Islamists. I don't understand how they don't get it, but they clearly don't get it.
O'REILLY: But, see, here's what I don't understand.
INGRAHAM: They are so overwhelmed with hatred for Bush.
O'REILLY: I don't know --
INGRAHAM: So overwhelmed.
O'REILLY: Yeah. I understand the hate-Bush stuff drives clouds into every -- every policy matter. But Ted Turner is a very wealthy individual, and enjoys his wealth, all right.
INGRAHAM: Yeah. Money doesn't buy you brains. I'm sorry. It doesn't buy you brains.
O'REILLY: No, no, no, no. No personal attacks here.
INGRAHAM: Well, no, no, Bill, I don't -- that's not a personal attack.
O'REILLY: I mean, you might -- sure it is.
INGRAHAM: To say -- to say at the National Press Club, as an American citizen, that you haven't been able -- you weren't able to choose sides? That's -- that -- I don't even know what to say about that.
O'REILLY: Well, here's what you say. You say he's --
INGRAHAM: I mean, it used to be that we believed in our country. We believed in the goodness of America.
O'REILLY: He's terribly misguided. He's terribly misguided. But this is what I don't understand. Turner is very wealthy. He enjoys his wealth. He buys up property everywhere. I mean, he's a big capitalist guy. Yet he embraces Fidel Castro, as you know.
INGRAHAM: Yeah.
O'REILLY: You have talked about that a lot.
INGRAHAM: And he went to North Korea.
O'REILLY: And he -- he -- he didn't say bad things about the North Koreans. He seems to be sympathetic with all of these people.
INGRAHAM: Yeah.
O'REILLY: So, here -- well, here is my question for Ted Turner. Why do you hate America, Ted? Why do you dislike the system that we have in place so much?
INGRAHAM: Because he doesn't believe -- no, here it is, Bill. He does not believe in the American ideal. He believes in these general principles of liberalism and these general principles of a globalist view of the world. It's not the -- it's the not traditional loyalty to country that motivates Turner. And -- and that's his view. He can say whatever he wants. But --
O'REILLY: I agree with you that he's a one-world guy.
INGRAHAM: Yeah.
O'REILLY: I mean, he's like [progressive philanthropist George] Soros. But all liberals aren't like that. You know that.
INGRAHAM: Yes, but America's ideals are individualistic. They're the -- it's the frontier spirit. It's -- it's deeply entrenched in our faith and our faith culture.
O'REILLY: Yeah, and we're nationalistic people. We want -- we want our country.
INGRAHAM: Yeah. He has utter disdain -- yeah. He has utter disdain for our faith culture. He's said so consistently over the years.
O'REILLY: Yeah, he doesn't like Christians. He doesn't like the Judeo-Christian philosophy.
INGRAHAM: Yeah. Yeah.
O'REILLY: OK.
INGRAHAM: We're the biggest threat to the world, according to Ted Turner.
From the October 10 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes:
HANNITY: That was CNN founder, former media mogul Ted Turner speaking at the National Press Club in Washington yesterday, while admitting that he had a hard time choosing sides in the war on terror. Turner also offered his opinion on the news business, claiming newspapers were a thing of the past. Turner said, quote, "When I die, they're going to die with me." Joining us now is the president and founder of the Media Research Center, Brent Bozell, and former ABC News correspondent, journalism professor of national security studies at Boston University Bob Zelnick is with us. Guys, welcome to both of you.
BOZELL: Thank you.
HANNITY: I've got to be honest, Brent Bozell. And I know you've chronicled some quotes with Ted Turner over the years, because I voted on them. It's particularly -- that's particularly shocking, having a hard time making my mind up if I'm against the people that attacked us?
BOZELL: How many people in America do you think after 9-11 sat down and said, "I've got to do some reading and some studying to decide whether or not I am affected by this and whether or not we should seek retribution for what happened on our shores, in New York, in Washington, D.C., on the plains of Pennsylvania"? Either this man is truly delusional, because it's just one stop comment after -- you know, one comment after another from this man, or he's got a real serious problem with this country. It doesn't matter what conservatives think at this point. I think it's time for Democrats to speak up. Either they support this man or they should condemn him.
HANNITY: You know, Bob Zelnick, we conservatives -- I've often used the term "blame America first," or the "hate America" left, the hard left. Isn't that what you hear here? Is that the fair description?
ZELNICK: Well, it may very well be. Let me say this: I listened to it several times. First of all, I think there is some chance, remote, that it was just a cruel and tasteless joke on his part. I think there is some chance, again, not all that likely but of greater likelihood, that he was referring to the decision should we go to war with Iraq or not. It's possible that he just was very awkward in his utterance. All that said, if he was serious in what he -- in what the words came out like, then it's worse than cruel and tasteless. It's an insult to every American in the country. It's an insult to the boys and females who have gone over to Iraq and risked their lives and in some cases lost their lives. And to think that he's balancing the U.S. against a group of terrorists who pulled children off buses and killed them in the streets and leave headless bodies floating in the Tigris River every -- every night, I think it's just an outrage, if that's what he was saying.
HANNITY: Let me go back to Brent. And I think Bob is being charitable, because I think Bob is a good guy. And, you know, I think you're trying to give him a benefit of the doubt. But he's a guy that's also attacked Christianity. He once said, Brent Bozell, as you know, "The United States has got some of the dumbest people in the world. I want you to know that we know that." He's made a lot of controversial comments and, frankly, over-the-top comments. This just fits his personality. I think this is the real Ted Turner.
BOZELL: Well, you know, he made that statement that Christianity is a religion for losers. He apologized for that one. He made a statement on September 19th of last year saying that he believed that North Korea was absolutely sincere in its nuclear program. And why? Because he sees them all riding bicycles. He made a statement last month where he took credit for the end of the Cold War because of his Goodwill Games. He made a statement last year also on the David Letterman show about Afghanistan, about the war there, saying that we ought to cut our defense budget by 10 percent and offer hope instead of tanks. Again, you know, either this man has kind of lost his mind, and I mean that in a serious way, or I think -- I think, Alan, it's high time that you and your colleagues start putting your foot down on his statements.
COLMES: Thank you for telling me what I might say. But let me put this in context. We only showed a clip of his answer. We didn't get the question. And, Bob Zelnick, the question was: "What do you think of the fact that -- well, not you, but other people have been, when they've criticized the Iraq war, criticized the U.S. government conduct, their patriotism has been questioned." He was responding to the war in Iraq. He made the mistake of conflating that with Bush's statement, "Are you with us or against us," something that President Bush made prior to the war in Iraq about the war on terror. That's where I think the confusion is. I believe his answer was about the war in Iraq, not the greater war on terror. Bob, what do you say?
ZELNICK: Well, I was accused of giving him the benefit of the doubt and being a nice guy and being charitable. I find it hard to believe that even a delusional American would say something as crass as not being able to choose between the terrorists and his own country. I think if he has any trouble making that choice he should have gone over to Iraq, as I did, for 20 days this past summer.
COLMES: But that wasn't the question. The question was whether or not the Iraq war, Brent, was a good idea.
ZELNICK: Yes. And I heard -- I heard what the -- what your summary of the question was. And I think he may have used that as a launching point for his own bizarre notions of the right and wrong in this -- in this context.
BOZELL: And Bob is entirely right. Look, it doesn't matter what the question was. His answer specifically twice referenced the war on terror. Not Iraq.
COLMES: Not specifically.
BOZELL: His answer referenced the war on terror.
COLMES: And he made the mistake of saying with us or against us as pertains to Iraq --
BOZELL: On the war on terror.
COLMES: But the question was about Iraq. He clarified what he meant.
BOZELL: He specifically talked about the war on terror, Alan. And look, you show me where Ted Turner has ever rallied American support around the war on terror.
Hannity, Bozell and BO - the Three Stooges from Bizarro World.
Except that the Stooges were funny.
This is the same thing these bastards did to Murtha. Turner was obviously criticizing Puddinhead George for his black and white thinking, and these clowns had to condense it into a bumper sticker soundbite for their troglodyte audience. But, this is no surprise; these guys are paid to lie.
- "They're a sovereign state," Turner said of Iran. "We have 28,000. Why can't they have 10?... And really, nobody should have them.
Well, which is it Ted? I'd say he has a hard time deciding which side he's on.
...tell me you're not that ignorant. Please tell me you're consciously ignoring the meanings and conceptual exclusivity of those statements to spin an argument against Turner. I refuse to believe anyone - other than Bozell, Hannity, or Falafel Bill - is that ignorant.
On the other hand, maybe your purpose is to demonstrate that Turner was right when he said we have some of the dumbest people in the world right here in our own country. In that case, well done.
- ...and we constantly stick to our old ways of going to war whenever somebody disagrees with us or that we don't like the way they look or the way they smile, then we don't have much of a future." - Ted Turner
With these bogus claims...it's easy to see why some have a problem figuring out who he's rooting for.
Too often I see these kinds of opinions let off the hook when the subject is changed. Go back to your first assertion and back up your point, or retract it. I just called your first post ignorant. I don't need the additional proof you just provided in your reply to convince me.
Turner on North Korea with Wolf Blitzer:
BLITZER: “But look at the way, look at the way he’s, look at the way he’s treating his own people.”
TURNER: “Well, hey, listen. I saw a lot of people over there. They were thin and they were riding bicycles instead of driving in cars, but–”
BLITZER: “A lot of those people are starving.”
TURNER: “I didn’t see, I didn’t see any, I didn’t see any brutality in the capital or out in the, on the DMZ…Let’s give ‘em a break.
Yep, poor little Kimmie is just having some tough luck right now...North Korea would be just like Mr. Rogers Neighborhood...if that big bully, the USA, would just cut him a little slack.
It's getting clearer all the time who he's rooting for.
you said:
"I'd say he has a hard time deciding which side he's on."
"it's easy to see why some have a problem figuring out who he's rooting for."
"It's getting clearer all the time who he's rooting for."
See? You're wrong.
And, I might add, I like arguing your way. So much easier than asserting a conclusion based on rational thought.
- “I was impressed with both CNN’s suppression of Hussein’s atrocities, as well as blatant, glowing tributes in trade for a bureau presence in Iraq,” - Ted Turner
Now that's profound...fool the people with phony news...brag about it...then struggle with the concept of "should I support the home team or the visitors"? It's real clear now why he can't decide.
That quote made absolutely no sense to me, so guess what? I googled it. This is the only website that features that quote: [link to politicaltherapy.blogspot.com]
It's a fake quote. The website is a Right Wing version of The Onion. It's supposed to be a parody. It's not real. Ted Turner never said that.
Here's classic stuff from the guy who can't decide who to root for...Turner answering questions at Syracuse University:
Speaking about the right of other countries to have nukes..."Don't we believe that all men are created equal? I mean, if we got 'em, I think they have a right to have 'em."
Wait, there is more:
QUESTION - So North Korea has a right to break its treaty and have them?
ANSWER - No question about it. They have the right to.
It's clear to me where he stands...but all those wild thoughts surely gives him a migraine headache.
They DO have the right. We reneged on OUR part of the agreement first. Now I certainly dont want N Korea to have nukes. I dont want us to have them either. Where is the moral consistancy in telling them. YOU cant have any nuclear weapons (which frankly are NOT illegal by international law) On the other hand by the way WE are going to build a whole new generation of OUR nuclear weapons. Yeah. As per usual a rightwinger has no problem with US demanding another nation comply with standards we would NEVER accept for ourselves.
Logically Turner is correct.
Who are we to say who can have nukes and who can't? Really.
I am interested in seeing your justification of the USA having nukes and certain countries not having them.
I incidentally share your position, but it is simply hubris to believe it is more logical. I believe we should have nukes and prevent their proliferation elsewhere, because we have historically we are not as likely as smaller countries to use them...again. I realize that patriarchical reasoning is pretty weak logically, but it does appear more practical.
Why did we invade the Dominican Republic again in 64? Wasnt it to STOP them from ending the riegn of a military dictatorship and putting their freely and democratically elected leader Juan Bosch back in power? And why did we mine Nicaraguas harbors again? Wasnt it because we didnt like their freely and democratically elected government the Sandanistas? Lets not forget all the governments we have overthrown, clearly and act of war. In Iran, Chile, Brazil, Guatemala. Feel free to put your head in the sand but to blame Turner for telling the truth is ludicrous. Feel all Pollyanna about our foriegn policy Turner wasnt far wrong.
All them "facts" and "history" must keep you tossing and turning all night, while wesley sleeps like a baby.
What's with the Ted Turner big book of quotations. anyway?
I'll check back tomorrow to see if wesley has responded to any of the posts pointing out his lack of substance, or if it's just posted more Turner quotes that say anything besides "USA!#1!"
I have a feeling I know what I;ll see.
And Dick CHAINey was in the midwest last weekend issuing the same tired cliches that have been used since the beginning of time: We gotta be tough, and if we're not, if, for example, Kerry had been elected, we'd be overrun with Arabs. (That's the same thing I heard last summer from a fundamentalist kid from Alabama!)
Of course, WHO is tough? Where were you during Vietnam, Dick? Where was Georgie Porgie?
There are some basic argument rules that Wesley has a good grasp of, and of which neondesert has no clue. Even a HS debate team would tell neondesert to leave the podium before he completely embarassed himself.
I think all Americans should take a Logic 101 course so that we can understand just how silly the black/white arguments and apologists are. Why do absolutely all (and I mean ALL) of my educated friends and family think Bushco has made some serious mistakes, and cannot stand their reasoning, while all of my less educated friends and family follow Fox?
I reversed the names. I wish we could edit our posted comments.
If you have questions of how expensive defamation can be, my lawyer will be happy to fill you in on the details.
As far as editing, you could flag your own comment for removal by the moderators, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. I like to think most folks got the gist of your - in my opinion - brilliant and insightful comments, despite the name confusion.
"O'REILLY: No, no, no, no. No personal attacks here."
... and then O'Reilly and Ingraham proceed to do just that.
The bottom line though is that nowadays if you have any views that are not consistent with right wing ideology you must learn to articulate them precisely... and Turner didn't do that.
Don't these bozos of ignorance and darkness get tired of their own laziness, lies, and bad behavior? Apparently not. Once again they show the depths of just laziness and craziness Faux news has descended to. Attack Attack Attack. They are a sorry lot of pretenders. Unfortunately the viewers drawn to this kind of train wreck that need to get this message don't read Media Matters... Ted Turner.. a nation turns it's lonely eyes to you.... All who have been slandered by this kind of "opinion" need to have their voices heard in dissent loud and clear.
They'll never get tired of it...they sold their souls a long time ago; now the lies just drip off their tongues like melted butter, and they don't even blush when they invoke the name of Jeeeeeezzzzzzzuuuuuussssssss.
Lying for the GOP has been the largest growth industry over the past 15 years. How many billions have been made in talk radio alone? Rush Limbaugh's tax cut last year was more money than the average American will make in a lifetime.
O'falafel and Hannity lied again, what a shock
Here we have a paradox that was likely never to rear it's head less the Republicans were so off the mark.
Ted Turner, a conservative billionaire media mogul should understand the scoundrel is ussually the guy making the most noise, wrapped in a flag, accusing others whom would disagree to be unpatriotic.
If you find yourself listening to Hannity/O'Reilley opposed to Ted Turner on such issues, you are most certainly lost.
Happy Thoughts;
Dan Grady
"...And just because you disagree with me about it doesn't mean you're not a patriot, as far as I'm concerned."
Funny also that the question was also cut out. From the clip O'Reilly showed it was not clear that Turner was talking about the war in Iraq.
Clearly O'Reilly wanted his audience to think that Turner had not decided whether to be with America or not when he actually had not decided whether to go to war in Iraq or not.
Just cut the part out where he declares that he is still a patriot.
I called O'Liar on his radio show on Tuesday(10/10) when he was spouting this stuff. I had read the piece on Drudge the night before (monday 10/9). Drudge teased it with the sellatious (spelling?) headline about Turner not making his mind up on war on Terror. When I read the article on Drudge I saw the question that preceeded the answer and thought the headline made no sense as Turner was most definitely talking about the Iraq war. I was surprised to hear O'Liar regurgitate the Drudge piece based solely on the headline. When O'liar took my call I chastised him for lifting the Drudge headline without readint the story and told O'liar that Turner most defintely was talking about the Iraq war. When I tried to explain why, he cut most of my comments off by his interruption. After the call I went back to Drudge to check the article again, only this time Drudge had cut dwon the Turner comments to only include the parts referenced above in the piece. Obviously O'Liar lifted the story right from Drudge and just filtered it into his show. This from a guy who yells at Paul Krugman when he mentions Media Matters to "Do your own research"
O'REILLY: So, here -- well, here is my question for Ted Turner. Why do you hate America, Ted? Why do you dislike the system that we have in place so much?
O'Reilly/Hannity/Limbaugh would be out of business were it not for stuff like this. Listen to them (if you can stand it) and all you hear are tirades against evil liberals, secular progressives and "The Democrat Party". Maybe it's just me but whenever I tune in to these guys that's all I hear... it's all negative rants. They live for this stuff.
On the other hand Ted Turner should know that in this environment if he's going to express a political viewpoint he can't express himself as though he's talking to his buddies in a bar.
so therefore they lie. it's they only way they can portray themselves as the patriots they are not. bozell wants to know "where turner has ever rallied american support around the war on terror." the same way of every right thinking american who questions the actions of the bush administration. it's bozell, hannity, limbaugh et al who are the ones helping forment terrorism against this country. we are not engaged in the war on terror in iraq. we are allowing our armed forces, the ones we may need for a real emergency one day, to be destroyed in the middle of a civil war between people determined to kill each other because of their religion. this is a law enforcement issue. sometimes we must use force, but we must be smart about how we do it. the bull in the china shop policy of the bush administration in iraq is exactly the wrong thing, it's counterproductive. don't believe me, or turner? ask poppy bush. he said the same thing.
Not like that's the first time anything like that has happened in the media or at MMFA.
They didn't crop the quote to make a point...they cropped it to completely misrepresent Turner's statement.
And if you're going to accuse MMFA of cropping quotes to twist their meaning, then you have to back it up with examples.
Some time back there was a "story" about Bennett and abortion. MMFA carefully selected the first sentence in a statement by Bennett to post in BOLD in their headline for the article and cleverly bury the rest of the statement deep in the "story" (back in the days when we had to click on "read more" to get all the story). I will give MMFA credit for actually posting the whole statement, however deeply buried. The "cropped" or "out of context" headline changed the complete tenor of that "story" (and brought the posters out in force). Absolutely no different that what Shamity and Bull OhReally? did here, playing to their base in either case.
>>"MMFA"<<
Hannity cropped the quote to make it sound like Turner was talking about the war on terror, when in fact Turner was obviously discussing Iraq. Where's your documentation of MM using the same sort of deceptive distortion of facts?
I'm inclined now to e-mail those lying whores and threaten violence. We MUST put a stop to Faux, the most divisive network in US history.
Ingraham is perhaps the worst of them. God, I get explosively angry when these second rate whores have a medium on which to blab their opinion like a bunch of 8th grade brown noses.
When are we going to reinstate laws that DEMAND equal time? If we don't, I don't know how long I'll be able to constrain myself against destroying Faux and its valueless "commentators."
I'm kinda sick of this s---t. Why doesn't Ted sue these two idiots and put them out of business? That's the only thing they can understand. If enough people did it, these people would disappear.
The orher alternative is to vote Democratic, make sure your friends do the same, contribute to them, so they gain a majority. Sure, they're wimps and timid, but the can provide the only alternative right now to these clowns and the greedy snide overblown Republicans; sure they may turn venial and greedy themselves, but it'll take a while.
It is truly remarkable how many of these conservatives think, if you could call it thinking. Ted Turner's desire to make an informed decision about going to war makes him a traitor? Am I hearing this correctly?
Going to war based on the claims of a few Bush staffers would be like sentancing a man to the death penalty without hearing any evidence. And Ted Turner is being villified for being the man that wants to be absolutely sure we are doing the right thing? I'm sorry, but I always thought war was generally a bad thing, something that ought not to happen if it can be avoided at all, and it sure as hell better be justified. And as we have since learned, the war was not justified, and it didn't have to happen. And unlike the death penalty analogy, it wasn't just one man being sentanced to death, but thousands of Americans and tens of thousands of Iraqis.
I know MMFA's point was not whether or not Turner was right in what he said, but I thought it appropriate to examine how absolutely flawed the conservative rationale is: Rush into a war, don't look back, no matter how bad things get, and not only smear anyone who raises opposition, but smear also someone like Mr. Turner for even thinking about raising opposition. Boy, it's a good thing the liberals control the media, or we would be well on our way to Fascism by now.
umm, I think the latest stat is that the civilian death toll in Iraq is 600 000 and counting. not to mention that more Americans have died in Iraq than on 9/11. Way to go Dubya, you beat Osama at his own game.
Ingraham announced "a message to Ted Turner: You would be the first person, or one of the first people, put up against a wall and shot in an Islamic society," and asserted that "the progressives, the liberals, the leftists, who Ted Turner really does represent" are "so overwhelmed with hatred for [President George W.] Bush" that they "don't seem to understand" that "militant Islamists" want to kill Americans.
Hey Laura: 2004 called. It wants its wingnut rhetoric back.
Hey guys, I think I should point out a small victory for us!
"BOZELL: And Bob is entirely right. Look, it doesn't matter what the question was. His answer specifically twice referenced the war on terror. Not Iraq.
COLMES: Not specifically.
BOZELL: His answer referenced the war on terror.
COLMES: And he made the mistake of saying with us or against us as pertains to Iraq --
BOZELL: On the war on terror."
At least we finally got the wingnuts to acknowledge that the war in Iraq and the War on Terror are TWO SEPARATE WARS!! That's not ground they'd concede in the past...especially O'Reilly and Hannity, who were saying for years that the two wars were one in the same.
The problem with the Media Matters complaint is that The President said "either you're with us or you're against us" 18 months to 2years prior to the Iraq war. Mr. Turner was indicating his state of mind at that time when he said “and I had a problem with that, because I really hadn't made my mind up yet.” So my zany liberal friends, he could not have been referring to the Iraq war and had to be referring to the broader war on terror. (Note that the Iraq war subsequently became a front in the broader war on terror.)