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Four of six major papers left out prescient warnings in coverage of 2002 Iraq war vote

December 04, 2006 6:15 pm ET

SUMMARY: A December 4 Washington Post article pointed out that the newspaper's own reporting from October 2002 on the House's passage of the Iraq war resolution failed to quote a single Democrat expressing concerns about "postwar challenges," though many had done so. Media Matters found that contemporaneous articles from three other major print outlets also left out any mention of such warnings.

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In a December 4 article, Washington Post staff writer Walter Pincus highlighted the congressional Democrats who voted against the October 2002 Iraq war resolution and who predicted at the time that the Bush administration was not prepared for certain "postwar challenges" -- warnings that, in Pincus' words, "turned out to be correct." He further pointed out that the Post, in its two October 11, 2002, articles on the resolution's passage in the House, failed to quote a single Democrat voicing these prescient concerns.

Expanding on Pincus' critique, Media Matters for America reviewed the coverage by five other major print outlets -- The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Los Angeles Times, USA Today, and the Associated Press. Our survey found that some did better than others in their coverage of the Democratic opposition to the resolution. But like the Post, three of these five outlets failed to mention the numerous Democrats who warned of "postwar challenges" during the congressional debate on the resolution.

From Pincus' December 4 article, headlined "Democrats Who Opposed War Move Into Key Positions":

Although given little public credit at the time, or since, many of the 126 House Democrats who spoke out and voted against the October 2002 resolution that gave President Bush authority to wage war against Iraq have turned out to be correct in their warnings about the problems a war would create.

Throughout the article, Pincus cited the numerous House Democrats who, during the floor debate on H.J.R. 114 -- the resolution authorizing the use of military force against Iraq -- warned of the administration's apparent failure to prepare for conditions in post-invasion Iraq. They included:

  • Rep. John M. Spratt Jr. (SC), who "predicted during the House floor debate that 'the outcome after the conflict is actually going to be the hardest part, and it is far less certain.' ... 'We do not want to win this war, only to lose the peace and swell the ranks of terrorists who hate us,' Spratt said."
  • Rep. Ike Skelton (MO), who stressed the need for "a plan for rebuilding of the Iraqi government and society, if the worst comes to pass and armed conflict is necessary" and noted the "extreme difficulty of occupying Iraq with its history of autocratic rule, its balkanized ethnic tensions and its isolated economic system."
  • Rep. David R. Obey (WI), who "spoke then about poor preparation for postwar Iraq, a concern he developed after listening to State Department officials."
  • Rep. Tammy Baldwin (WI), who ''spoke of the 'postwar challenges,' saying that 'there is no history of democratic government in Iraq,' that its 'economy and infrastructure is in ruins after years of war and sanctions' and that rebuilding would take 'a great deal of money.' ''
  • Rep. Barbara T. Lee (CA), who "raised questions in the floor debate that remain unanswered. 'What is our objective here,' she asked four years ago, 'regime change or elimination of weapons of mass destruction?' "

After reporting on the questions raised by these Democrats, Pincus went on to note that the Post, in its two October 11, 2002, articles on the House's approval of the resolution a day earlier, failed to quote a single Democrat expressing such concerns:

The day after the House vote, The Washington Post recorded that 126 House Democrats voted against the final resolution. None was quoted giving a reason for his or her vote except for Rep. Joe Baca (Calif.), who said a military briefing had disclosed that U.S. soldiers did not have adequate protection against biological weapons.

"As a veteran, that's what hit me the hardest," he said.

Lee was described as giving a "fiery denunciation" of the administration's "rush to war," with only 14 colleagues in the House chamber to hear her. None of the reasons she gave to justify her concerns, nor those voiced by other Democratic opponents, was reported in the two Post stories about passage of the resolution that day.

Indeed, Baca was the only Democratic critic quoted in the October 11 article by Post staff writers Jim VandeHei and Juliet Eilperin, which ignored the warnings issued by numerous Democrats of the lack of a postwar plan as their rationale. Likewise, in his October 11 column on the congressional debate, Post columnist Dana Milbank noted Lee's "fiery denunciation" of the resolution and quoted the general criticism voiced by Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) and Sen. Robert Byrd (D-WV), but ignored the other Democrats' specific concerns regarding the aftermath of the invasion:

With passage assured, most of the day's passion came from opponents, who numbered a greater-than-expected 133 in the House. Rep. Barbara T. Lee (D-Calif.), who last year opposed military action in Afghanistan, kicked off the debate at 9 a.m. with a fiery denunciation heard by all of 14 members on the floor and a lone reporter in the gallery. "Before us is a question of life and death," she said. "We do not need to rush to war!"

In the Senate, Robert C. Byrd (D-W. Va.), perennial defender of congressional prerogatives, had all the passion. "Thirty eight years ago, I, Robert C. Byrd, voted on the Tonkin Gulf resolution!" he began. "For all those spouting jingoes about the need to go to war with Iraq now, go down on the capital mall and look at the Vietnam memorial."

[...]

As a vote neared, liberals made a last stand. Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich (D-Ohio), offered a pacifist plea: "Faith, America! Courage, America! Peace, America!" One Democrat applauded.

But the Post was not the only national newspaper to ignore the postwar concerns voiced by Spratt, Skelton, Baldwin, and other Democrats:

  • In their October 11 article on the approval of the war resolution, Wall Street Journal staff writers David Rogers and Carla Anne Robbins simply included quotes from Byrd and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA) criticizing it in general terms. The Journal quoted Byrd saying, "We're handing this over to the president of the United States, and when we do that, we can put a sign on top of this Capitol and we can say 'Gone Home, Gone Fishing, Out of Business.' " The article went on to note the following statement from Kennedy: "Yes, we may reach a point where our only choice is conflict. ... But we are not there yet. The evidence does not take us there, events do not compel us there."
  • In an October 11 article on both the House and Senate's passage of H.J.R. 114, Associated Press writer Jim Abrams reported that many Democrats were "unwilling to give open-ended war-making authority to the president." The article offered no further detail regarding the questions raised by Democrats regarding the probable "postwar challenges."
  • USA Today staff writer Kathy Kiely's October 11 article on the Democratic opposition to the war resolution consisted of a single quote from Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC), who said, " 'Shoot now and ask questions later' has never been the American way, and it should not be now."

By contrast, in their October 11 New York Times article on the congressional debate, reporters Alison Mitchell and Carl Hulse noted that some "Democrats, like Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, were determined to vote against the measure, saying there were still many questions about how a war would be waged, what its costs would be and how long it would last." The article went on to quote Kennedy saying, "We have very little understanding about the full implications in terms of an exit strategy."

Similarly, an October 11 Los Angeles Times article by Nick Anderson and Richard Simon reported that Democratic dissenters had expressed concerns regarding the effect of an Iraq invasion on regional stability, arguing that the Bush administration's "go-it-alone approach ... would hamper efforts to build a global coalition against Iraq and could ignite a tinderbox in the Middle East."

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    • Author by sasami (December 04, 2006 6:48 pm ET)
         

      The day after the House vote, The Washington Post recorded that 126 House Democrats voted against the final resolution. None was quoted giving a reason for his or her vote except for Rep. Joe Baca (Calif.), who said a military briefing had disclosed that U.S. soldiers did not have adequate protection against biological weapons.

      So, it's either: a) poor planning b) they were aware of the fact that Saddam didn't have any while continuing to tell us he did

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    • Author by mefirst (December 04, 2006 7:01 pm ET)
         

      in the eagerness to go to war. there was no serious thought given to the consequences. and the republicans scheduled this vote when they did, a month before the midterms, to portray democrats as not wanting to defend the country against the threat of terrorism.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by MickD (December 05, 2006 1:22 pm ET)
           

        Also the neocon chorus don't know what to do with a failed conqueror. When BushieCo and the USA, USA chorus was number one strong-guy, oh how they loved the codpiece. But now that the honest real work of war turns out ugly, they are wringing their hands while Iraq burns under the auspice of their Nero hero. Sad, actually. They should be rallying to help save us.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by snoopy (December 04, 2006 7:13 pm ET)
         

      The media is so slanted in favor of republicans it's rediculous. Right winger sends fake anthrax powder to prominent liberals? chirp, chirp, chirp...

      Or right winger sentanced for plan to blow up congress? [link to www.jacksonsun.com] chirp, chirp, chirp...

      right winger calls in to CNN and insults Carter? Now THAT'S NEWS!!!

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Dem02020 (December 04, 2006 7:18 pm ET)
         

      Great item MMFA and J.K.

      Looking back at all the debate that surrounded H.J.Res.114, we're reminded of just how many people questioned the rationale of an invasion and occupation of Iraq... a lot of people.

      The administration took advantage of the American People's (and the Congress's) mood following the attacks of September 11, 2001.

      But a lot of people just wouldn't allow their grief and their anger to be taken advantage of so easily...

      They asked "What does Iraq have to do with 9-11?"

      Nothing.

      "How does an invasion and occupation of Iraq protect the American People in any way from a terror attack?"

      It doesn't.

      And the biggie...

      "Is Iraq truly a threat to the National Security of the U.S.?"

      No. It was a lie... a lie that continues to go without a complete investigation... a complete investigation of the FALSIFIED 'pre-invasion intelligence'.

      And that was one of the operative paragraphs of H.J.Res.114...

      "...to defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq"

      They lied.

      And a lot of people knew they were lieing... and more and more know it, every day.

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    • Author by Bacchus1 (December 05, 2006 7:58 am ET)
         

      The media acted as if they wanted the war like it would assist in great sales or they were just assisting Bush & Co in getting the war they wanted. Regardless, if the media had done their job, possibly, just possibly, there may have been more questions asked by Congress & more who would have voted against this war along with more citizens who might have wanted to know more before rushing into Iraq.

      This media is useless, really not much more than publications like the National Enquirer which is more reputable than the MSM as it does what it is supposed to do and does it well.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by republichater (December 05, 2006 9:11 am ET)
         

      It's amazing that mmfa is digging up "lack of reports" from years ago to try to claim democrats didn't support the war effort. The sooner they admit that a majority of democrats supported the US going into Iraq (for every reason given) the sooner the healing process can begin. Please, jump off that high horse before you break some bones. The FACTS are that democrats supported going into Iraq for the reasons outlined in HJR 114, (77-23 in the Senate and 296-133 in the House), along with more than 40 other nations that participated in the UN sanctioned involvement. Get over your "lies" and "wrong reasons" and "no WMD's"....democrats supported going into Iraq! Hindsight is 20-20, but many liberals are still in the dark yelling the same ole-same ole. Stand behind your country and start supporting your troops! You don't have to like the government, but don't blame the troops for actions they aren't responsible for. Or, are you going to treat these returning troops like you did our brave men/women who fought in Vietnam...by spitting on them? Or by calling them "baby killers" ?

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      • Author by mefirst (December 05, 2006 9:37 am ET)
           

        who did that? no one here. that's your admission of a weak argument. "u n sanctioned"? nope, they never approved of our invasion. and no one voted for the war. they voted to give bush the authority to use force if needed. was it needed? no. the inspectors were in iraq. that's what we wanted. your arguments are staler than week old bread.

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        • Author by republichater (December 06, 2006 7:42 am ET)
             

          " was it needed? no. "

          THAT is your opinion. Apparently, there were over 40 countries that differed with your opinion and did think force was necassary.

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      • Author by monknj80 (December 05, 2006 9:42 am ET)
           

        "Stand behind your country and start supporting your troops! You don't have to like the government, but don't blame the troops for actions they aren't responsible for. Or, are you going to treat these returning troops like you did our brave men/women who fought in Vietnam...by spitting on them? Or by calling them "baby killers" ?"

        What does this have to do with anything mentioned in MMFA's article? Please explain what is false about article? Who has been blaming the troops for any of this mess and please clarify how the people not on your side have not supported the troops?

        I have always hesitated to post comments on this site. I have no intention of getting into a shouting match and believe there is no reason people who disagree can't remain civil towards one another in conversation. I would really like to understand why you've responded to this article the way you have because I don't see the relevance.

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        • Author by republichater (December 06, 2006 8:10 am ET)
             

          " What does this have to do with anything mentioned in MMFA's article? "

          I think it goes to show the discontent and bitterness shown towards the military by the liberal press. This mentality creates and spreads hatred of the military and it's personel. By printing an article that implies there is little acceptance of the reasons for war within the US, it gives the impression that many do not support the participants in this war.

          " Please explain what is false about article? "

          I never said anything was false in the article. My opinion is that there is no need for further coverage of this issue when the reasons for this coverage appear to be maliciously aimed at the war effort and those who support it. Are you thinking this doesn't have an effect on the moral of the troops?

          " Who has been blaming the troops for any of this mess "

          Well, I certainly don't hear any support of the troops coming from most liberals! The majority of what I hear is they are evil, torturous, animals who need to be persecuted constantly or they get out of line. Are you saying you don't hear that from liberals?

          " and please clarify how the people not on your side have not supported the troops? "

          Uhhh, 1) liberal: I hate Bush and his reasons for war, they are all lies and we shouldn't be over there!! (GI may think less of himself and reason for fighting. May not fight as hard or intensly possibly causing fatal injury to himself or others)

          2) conservative: Bush isn't perfect but there is terrorism out there that needs to be subdued by our great fighting machine..the US military!! (GI may feel embolden during action knowing he is appreciated by homebound folks)

          Hey, I don't care if you support Bushco or not. But, it doesn't need to be publicly pronounced so vividly as most liberals do. Show your discontent in more subtle ways that won't harm the mentality of our military fighting so far from home. Try showing them you appreciate what they are doing to protect your nation from terrorism. Can you do that without impinging on your need to vocalize your hatred of Bush??

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          • Author by monknj80 (December 06, 2006 10:06 am ET)
               

            Thanks for remaining civil.

            I am in my mid-twenties and not a veteran, but I do have family members and friends who are active duty. I know personally quite a few people serving who feel that a lot of what has taken place in the last couple of years could have been easily avoided or at the very least handled better. People have every right to be upset and vocal. An open and honest dialogue could prevent the same mistakes from happening again.

            I support the Troops, but am against this war. Morale is important, but the troops deserve the right to know truth of why they were out in harms way. If the reason more than 3000 troops are dead is because they were told they were protecting our country from nuclear attack and it turns out that wasn't true, we have every right to be upset and vocal.

            "Well, I certainly don't hear any support of the troops coming from most liberals! The majority of what I hear is they are evil, torturous, animals who need to be persecuted constantly or they get out of line. Are you saying you don't hear that from liberals?"

            Actually I don't hear that from most progressive liberal. Can you site any cases to contradict me? I think there have been quite a few incidents were men and women definitely need to be prosecuted (The recent Rape and Murder of an Iraqi family, the Abu Graib (sp) incident), but I hope you don't think liberals view the entire miltitary based on the actions of so few. Unlike like how too many conservatives think muslim = terrorism. I support our troops by voicing the opinion that they should only be sent into harms way when absolutely necessary and when people make mistakes and soldiers die, the "decider(s)" need to be held accountable.

            "Hey, I don't care if you support Bushco or not. But, it doesn't need to be publicly pronounced so vividly as most liberals do. Show your discontent in more subtle ways that won't harm the mentality of our military fighting so far from home. Try showing them you appreciate what they are doing to protect your nation from terrorism. Can you do that without impinging on your need to vocalize your hatred of Bush??"

            I don't care if your a Bushco cheerleader. Liberal doesn't translate to evil as some people seem to be confused and I'd say the same for conservative. I do appreciate them for protecting the nation from terrorism, but right now they seem to be just protecting Iraq from terrorism (not a bad thing in itself, but lets cal a duck a duck).

            Report Abuse
            • Author by republichater (December 06, 2006 9:10 pm ET)
                 

              " ...who feel that a lot of what has taken place in the last couple of years could have been easily avoided or at the very least handled better "

              I agree with you there. We certainly could have handled it a bit better than has been, but not everyone is a genious who is in control of these events.

              " If the reason more than 3000 troops are dead is because they were told they were protecting our country from nuclear attack and it turns out that wasn't true "

              Yes, but that wasn't the reason. The reason is to fight terrorism before they attack us on our soil...again. Is that a wrong reason?

              " I think there have been quite a few incidents were men and women definitely need to be prosecuted (The recent Rape and Murder of an Iraqi family, the Abu Graib (sp) incident), "

              If those couple of reasons keep remaining the headlines of media reports on the Iraq war, then something is wrong with the reporting of the war. Sure, those incidences need to be addressed, but not by the media. Sure, they can be reported by the media, but abu graib is still a headline grabber in most reports on the war. Should it be? I don't think so. I think the guilty parties should be punished and let the war continue. But a lot of those "progressive liberals" won't let go.

              " I don't care if your a Bushco cheerleader." and " I do appreciate them for protecting the nation from terrorism, but right now they seem to be just protecting Iraq from terrorism "

              First, I'm not a Bushco cheerleader. But, he is my president, (right now) so I support him, I'll support the next one, too. I may not like him, but I'll support him. Now, explain the difference between fighting terrorism here or fighting it there? And why either could be construed as a bad thing by many liberals as seems to happen?

              Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (December 06, 2006 8:49 pm ET)
               

            There is no military bashing inherent in our anti war position. The way I see my obligation to the troops is that THEY sign up to protect America when they do they lose all right to question the mission. The only mechanism that EXISTS to protect them from unscrupulous politicians like Bush lying and misleading them into a war for any reason not crucial to our country is PUBLIC OPINION. We abrogate that obligation when we become mindless robotic brainwashed zombies instead of respecting the obligation as citizens and questioning the sanity of military misadventures such as Iraq. There is no question Bush lied and misled about the reasons for Iraq. Now Democrats deserve their share of criticism. I didnt buy Bushes lies, they should have been more skeptical. Bush however did LIE like when he pulled a non existant IAEA report out of his ass or when he sent 12 reports to congress saying the aluminum tubes were ONLY suitable for Gas Centrifuges when our scientists who SPECIALIZE in GCs unanimously derided the idea they would be used that way at all much less ONLY for that and purpose. YOUR way to just be obligated to support ANYTHING a president does is a sure prescription for getting our soldiers killed for inadequate reasons for their sacrifice. Now perhaps you disagree but its an outright LIE to conflate that with military hating or not supporting the troops.

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      • Author by worrierking (December 05, 2006 10:13 am ET)
           

        Reports on Vietnam Vets being called "baby killers' and being spit on by anti-war demonstrators have been grossly exaggerated. There may have been a few isolated incidents. I remember incidents of Pro-war, counter demonstrators, calling the Vietnam vets who demonstrated against the war traitors, cowards, etc. but no one I know was ever spit on or called a baby killer by an anti-war demonstrator. No one I know has information on anyone else suffering this kind of abuse. Yes, we were abused, but abused by our government, not the people.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Sagra (December 05, 2006 11:56 am ET)
             

          but now that I see how much the Right lies about everything, I'm changing my mind. It's sounds just exactly like some of the scams they try pulling off now.

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        • Author by MickD (December 05, 2006 1:48 pm ET)
             

          Here's a link to a book on the spitting subject....

          [link to en.wikipedia.org]

          Having been a kid during the Vietnam era I always thought that the spitting stuff was highly dubious. The Vietnam Vets were noble servants to this country put into the middle by wrongly motivated politicians (Dem and Repub).

          Report Abuse
      • Author by political_left-religious_right (December 05, 2006 10:52 am ET)
           

        It's amazing that mmfa is digging up "lack of reports" from years ago to try to claim democrats didn't support the war effort.

        Wow, two major errors right off the bat: (1) this is in response to a Washington Post article from yesterday; (2) it has nothing to do with the claim that democrats didn't support the war effort, it has to do with the fact that those opposing didn't get their opinions aired.

        The sooner they admit that a majority of democrats supported the US going into Iraq (for every reason given) the sooner the healing process can begin.

        Irrelevant, as noted. Besides, the "healing process" can only really begin when we get out.

        Please, jump off that high horse before you break some bones.

        Unfortunately, Bush's war is only part of the horse, and his actions have caused a lot worse than some broken bones.

        The FACTS

        Irrelevant ones. And cut out the shouting.

        are that democrats supported going into Iraq for the reasons outlined in HJR 114, (77-23 in the Senate and 296-133 in the House),

        Why are you giving the full vote? If you want to make your point of how the Democrats voted, give only their votes. Doing it your way makes you look lazy manipulative and/or lazy.

        along with more than 40 other nations that participated in the UN sanctioned involvement.

        Already shot down by Mefirst above.

        Get over your "lies" and "wrong reasons" and "no WMD's"

        These are all perfectly valid reasons for opposing the war, and there's no reason to "get over" them.

        ....democrats supported going into Iraq!

        If necessary, which it wasn't.

        Hindsight is 20-20,

        Not for you, it apparently isn't, if you still approve of Bush's war.

        but many liberals are still in the dark yelling the same ole-same ole.

        Yes, many of us were right all along. We opposed the war before it started.

        Stand behind your country and start supporting your troops!

        Kindly drop this old canard. If you want to talk about not supporting troops, then by all means send them into harm's way for no legitimate reason, and while you're at it, cut their benefits when they get home. Liberals would never do that.

        You don't have to like the government, but don't blame the troops for actions they aren't responsible for.

        No one has. Be sure to sweep up all that straw on your way out.

        Or, are you going to treat these returning troops like you did our brave men/women who fought in Vietnam...by spitting on them? Or by calling them "baby killers" ?

        There's nothing like a little revisionist history from those who can't see clearly in the present, either. Worrierking shredded this one above. The fact is that people who opposed the war in Vietnam actively sought out the participation of those returning from it for their cause. They may not have met them with candies and flowers, but they were, by and large, totally welcoming of the troops coming home. The anger was directed at LBJ, McNamara, the Pentagon, and later Nixon for exacerbating things, not at the troops themselves. And today it's the same: our anger and disappointment goes to those who created this mess, not at all to those who are being made to fight it. With that in mind, it's fair to say that we support the troops far more than you ever could.

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        • Author by Dem02020 (December 05, 2006 12:02 pm ET)
             

          On H.J.Res.114, "To Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq", the Roll Call was:

          In the House, 81 Democrats voted for the Resolution...

          ...versus 126 Democrats voting against (a majority of the Democratic Representatives voting against... a 62% majority).

          In the Senate, 29 Democrats voted for the Resolution...

          ...versus 21 Democrats voting against (a minority of the Democratic Senators voting, 42%).

          Contrast those vote totals with those of the Republican Congressional Caucus:

          215 Republicans in the House voted to authorize the president to use the U.S. Armed Forces against Iraq...

          ...versus just 6 voting against (that's 97% of the House Republicans voting yea on H.J.Res.114... 97%!).

          In the Senate, 48 Republican Senators voted for the invasion of Iraq...

          ...versus just one (Sen. Chaffee of RI) voting against (98% of Republican Senators voted for the invasion... 98%!).

          I think it's obvious whose invasion (and occupation) of Iraq this is...

          I think if the 107th U.S. House of Representatives had had a Democratic majority (instead of a Republican majority), then the American People would have had a more serious accountability of the administration (and their lies) in compelling us into Iraq...

          Again, Democrats in the House opposing H.J.Res.114...

          126 to 81.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by republichater (December 06, 2006 8:55 am ET)
             

          " Wow, two major errors right off the bat: (1) this is in response to a Washington Post article from yesterday; (2) it has nothing to do with the claim that democrats didn't support the war effort, it has to do with the fact that those opposing didn't get their opinions aired. "

          Likewise; (1) the wp article was about themselves doing what mmfa stated "4 of 6" didn't do way back when. If mmfa didn't intend to unbury old bones, then they would have stuck to only the wp article and not expanded it to include 5 more media outlets. (2) It has nothing to do with democrats not getting their opinions aired, it has to do with democrats not getting media attention. So, not only are you proving that democrats didn't support the war effort, you're proving that democrats whined about not getting enough air play regarding that.

          " Yes, many of us were right all along. We opposed the war before it started. " and " If you want to talk about not supporting troops, then by all means send them into harm's way for no legitimate reason, and while you're at it, cut their benefits when they get home. Liberals would never do that. "

          And you still oppose the war and everyone involved in it. If you think 9/11 is "no legitimate reason" then there isn't much more I can say to you. Thank you for proving my point. Why would I cut veteran benefits. I (unlike many liberals) support veterans AND current military personal. I am a veteran. The last I checked Bush has spent more on veteran benefits than Clinton ever did!

          Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (December 06, 2006 8:55 pm ET)
               

            And you still oppose the war and everyone involved in it. If you think 9/11 is "no legitimate reason" then there isn't much more I can say to you.

            A) Either cough up some liberals attacking all the troops of give this silly argument up its an outright lie.

            B) And Iraq had WHAT to do with 9/11? Nothing? rent a map for goodness sake

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            • Author by republichater (December 07, 2006 9:01 am ET)
                 

              Are you totally mindless or just plain ignorant? Do you have any clue at all about what is going on in Iraq? We are fighting against terrorists! We finished your "illegal" war a couple years ago. When the terrorists moved into Iraq and started killing civilians and troops our mission changed. What part of that do you not understand? 9/11=terrorist attack, US troops in Iraq=fighting terrorists. We eliminated Saddam long ago, so your continual arguement about lies and illegal war are no longer real. Drop the arguement and move on to what is happening in the current world. Stop living in the past.

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              • Author by solon (December 07, 2006 2:12 pm ET)
                   

                You really are stupid arent you? I have an IQ that puts your little pea brain in the toilet. Iraq was NEVER about terrorism. If Islamic extremist terrorists is what we are fighting how did invading the most SECULAR nation in the entire middle east qualify as anything but insanity? The CIA said directly that they had NO EVIDENCE connecting Iraq to any international terrorism for a decade. Teaching the Wahabi sect of Ben Laden carried the DEATH PENALTY in Iraq so YES I KNOW what is going on in Iraq because I get REAL information instead of tuning in to Rightwing . screechmonkeys like you do as the good little propaganda parrot you are just to regurgitate the propaganda you hear from them over and over in record mode.

                Here is the thing, concentrate now we get that you are a VERY dim bulb. What part of 9/11 HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ arent you getting. The president has admitted this, the 9./11 commission said this directly, no intelligence agency in the WORLD ever believed they did. Is there ever going to come a time when you let even a SHRED of reality into your cramped fantsasy world of delusion and ignorance?

                I guess I will decide when I drop ANYTHING. I am sure it would be good for the rightwing if we just dropped the FACT that Bush lied and decieved us about the reasons for this invasion down the memory hole but realistically that is NOT going to happen. See the only reason to LIE about the reason for an invasion is that you dont believe the REAL reasons would get support from the people. THAT is certainly relevant. I mean to normal people not brain washed brain dead propaganda parrots like YOU. There is a lot of violence in Iraq there is a civil war which became inevitable as soon as we invaded, and there are attacks on US. Now the attacks on US are legal and valid by international law. Every country has a right to armed resistance to foriegn invaders. That is NOT terrrorism. The civil war is horrific but exactly how are WE going to help as long as we are adding to the equation of violence. That monster is out of the box, it is something else Bush is responsible for, he was warned it was a strong possibility, but not something we are going to be able to stop since our very presence excaberates the violence problem. I detest the we need to fight them there so we dont fight them here rationale it is so bereft of any moral basis. Are we saying its ok to inflict the cost of fighting terrorists on another country so WE dont have to pay them? A country that did NOT attack us that did not THREATEN to attack us That General Zinni said "We bombed him almost at will. No one in the region felt threatened by Saddam. " and "I testified before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee one month before the war, and Senator Lugar asked me: "General Zinni, do you feel the threat from Saddam Hussein is imminent?" I said: "No, not at all. It was not an imminent threat. Not even close. Not grave, gathering, imminent, serious, severe, mildly upsetting, none of those."

                Keep pumping the koolaid, those of us capable of higher brain function KNOW BETTER.

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      • Author by Sagra (December 05, 2006 11:57 am ET)
           

        Strawmen! Getcher Strawmen right here!

        Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (December 06, 2006 8:40 pm ET)
           

        And administrations and policies when they deserve it. Your idea of support is getting as many Americans killed as possible. There is no possible rationale for claiming the UN supported our invasion of Iraq and the coalition of the bribed and threatened really wont convince anyone not already a brainwashed bushbot.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by republichater (December 06, 2006 8:58 pm ET)
             

          " There is no possible rationale for claiming the UN supported our invasion of Iraq and the coalition of the bribed and threatened really wont convince anyone not already a brainwashed bushbot "

          And "I'm" the one being called dilusional?!? How in the world did Bush "bribe and threaten" the leaders of over 40 countries? Do you really think Bush is such a genius that he can single handly force that many countries into a war that is as "illegal" as you claim? Do you really think he has THAT much power? Do you think the illuminati is in control of the world? I guess if you answer yes to the last one, I understand your paranoia.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (December 07, 2006 2:35 pm ET)
               

            [link to www.tni.org]

            Then there is this from CBS

            CBS) President Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan tells Steve Kroft that after 9/11, the U.S. threatened to bomb his country if it didn’t help America’s war on terrorism. Musharraf says the threat came from then-Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage and was delivered to Musharraf’s intelligence director.

            “The intelligence director told me that (Armitage) said, ‘Be prepared to be bombed. Be prepared to go back to the Stone Age,’ ” recalls Musharraf. It was insulting, he says. “I think it was a very rude remark.” But he reacted to it in a responsible way, he tells Kroft. “One has to think and take actions in the interests of the nation, and that’s what I did.”

            Try to keep up. Hannity and Limbaugh are NOT going to keep you informed on what is REALLY happening in the world

            Report Abuse
    • Author by Sagra (December 05, 2006 11:53 am ET)
         

      choosing instead to embrace Republican lies.

      It's amazing how well the Democratic opponents foretold the situation we're in now. Facts do have a liberal bias, don't they?

      Report Abuse

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