More Scarborough Country on "Bill O'Reilly's strange obsession with NBC"
Media Matters for America senior fellow Paul Waldman appeared on the January 8 edition of MSNBC's Scarborough Country to discuss, as host Joe Scarborough called it, "Bill O'Reilly's strange obsession with NBC." Other participants in the discussion included attorney and author Bob Kohn, and Congressional Quarterly columnist and MSNBC analyst Craig Crawford.
During the segment, Scarborough reiterated his challenge to debate O'Reilly, saying: "My challenge to Bill O'Reilly, because he said there wasn't a single conservative at NBC News -- I think Tucker Carlson and I would both disagree. And I said I would be very willing to debate Bill O'Reilly anytime, anyplace, anywhere, and we can debate who the real conservative was and who the Republican suck-up was."
From the January 8 edition of MSNBC's Scarborough Country:
SCARBOROUGH: Bill O'Reilly's strange obsession with NBC continues. He's already gone after everybody here, from David Gregory to Brian Williams, even throwing Al Roker under the bus. His contempt for all things NBC even led him to go after the show Law & Order this afternoon on his radio show for a supposed left-wing agenda. And tonight, he went after the hit NBC show ER. Take a look.
[begin video clip]
O'REILLY: NBC is taking a sharp turn to the left, not only in their news department, but also in their entertainment programming. Listen to this from ER.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE (secretary of state): We might have been responsible for the attack, obviously. We will do the forensics on it --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't even look at her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't think she's a role model? I mean not for me, but you gotta admit she's impressive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If Shakita needs a role model, she can turn on Oprah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, but what if Shakita wants to be secretary of state?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, then she can look up Madeleine Albright.
O'REILLY: Now, that scene was completely unnecessary to the narrative in ER. It was thrown in there simply to demean Secretary Rice. This kind of thing is happening more at more at NBC, and these two men are the reason. Programming chief Jeff Zucker presides over both news and entertainment and supposedly answers to Robert Wright, although many believe Wright is on his way out.
[end video clip]
SCARBOROUGH: So why has Bill O'Reilly singled out NBC for rage? Here now is Paul Waldman. He's a senior fellow at the media watchdog group Media Matters. And Bob Kohn, he's the author of Journalistic Fraud [WND Books/Nelson Current, 2003]. Also, MSNBC political analyst Craig Crawford. He's the author, appropriately enough, of Attack the Messenger [Rowman & Littlefield, 2005].
Paul Waldman, let me begin with you. You studied Bill O'Reilly for an outfit that Bill would say obviously leans left. Why is he obsessed with NBC? Why has he now expanded it beyond NBC News? Why is he now going after NBC Entertainment, when, of course, we could go after Fox Entertainment shows and movies all night that have their own liberal bias?
WALDMAN: Well, maybe it's because his attacks on the NBC news division have become so ridiculous. And this all started when NBC decided that they were going to call the war -- the civil war in Iraq a "civil war." Now he's mad because an NBC reporter said that the execution of Saddam Hussein was a PR problem for the United States, which it is. And so what we find is, when people actually state the facts, but they happen to be facts that don't reflect too well on the Bush administration, he calls it "liberal bias." And there --
SCARBOROUGH: Well, hold on a second. Wait. You know what, though, Paul Waldman. What we have to point out, too, is if NBC News is biased, then the guy who's really my favorite columnist, Charles Krauthammer, who works for Fox News, who's won a Pulitzer Prize, who's been long called one of the smartest conservatives, a neocon, this is what he had to say also about the hanging. He said, it was "a rushed, botched, unholy mess that exposed the hopelessly sectarian nature of the Maliki government." And, of course, Krauthammer was one of the reasons why I supported this war from the beginning, Paul. And now he says the hanging has shown that this government in Iraq is not worth more troops. Why doesn't Bill O'Reilly go after The Washington Post? Why doesn't Bill O'Reilly go after Fox News? They have Krauthammer on their payroll, don't they?
WALDMAN: Yeah. And, you know, as they once said on The Daily Show, the facts have a well-known liberal bias. And I think this is the problem that Bill O'Reilly has. When things don't go well for the Bush administration, anybody who says that is obviously carrying water for the liberals or the Democrats, and so he's lashing out at NBC. But, you know, I noticed, Joe, that you challenged him to a debate, which he has not yet said that he's going to meet that challenge --
SCARBOROUGH: And, of course, here's my challenge. My challenge to Bill O'Reilly, because he said there wasn't a single conservative at NBC News -- I think Tucker Carlson and I would both disagree. And I said I'd be very willing to debate Bill O'Reilly anytime, anyplace, anywhere, and we can debate who the real conservative was and who the Republican suck-up was, because I'm saying the same thing now that I was saying back in the 1990s when Bill Clinton was president, when everybody was calling me a right-wing lunatic. I haven't changed; everybody else has.
WALDMAN: And, you know, Bill O'Reilly likes to say that, if you attack somebody but you don't have the courage to face them, that you're a coward. He calls people cowards when they won't come on his show. He's attacked Media Matters. We've asked to appear on his show to answer his charges. He won't do it. You've -- he's criticized NBC. You've challenged him. He's not going to do it, because the fact is that the coward is Bill O'Reilly.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, I'm not going to call him a coward, but I will say this: I've always defended Bill O'Reilly, and then he said that somehow NBC News, the people that I worked for, and myself also, were aiding, basically, the enemy, that we were supporting the enemy when we called this thing a civil war. Hey, I called Bosnia and Kosovo a civil war back in '95, '96, '97, and the sectarian violence in Iraq is at least as bad as the sectarian violence right now -- as it was in Kosovo as it is now. Now, O'Reilly tried to corner [NBC foreign affairs correspondent] Andrea Mitchell into naming one conservative at NBC News. Take a look at this exchange.
[begin video clip]
O'REILLY: Can you tell me one conservative thinker at NBC News?
MITCHELL: How do you define conservative?
O'REILLY: I dunno. Traditional values, maybe supports --
MITCHELL: Are you talking about commentators or are you talking about news --
O'REILLY: Anybody. Give me anybody. Is there anybody over there who's conservative, in your opinion?
MITCHELL: Yes, I think there are a lot of people --
O'REILLY: Give me one.
MITCHELL: -- who are privately conservative or privately liberal.
O'REILLY: Give me one.
MITCHELL: But we don't judge ourselves by how we approach the news. We approach the news --
O'REILLY: OK, I just look at all your on-the-air talent in the Today show, and I love those guys, all right? They're all liberal, every one of them.
MITCHELL: I disagree.
O'REILLY: All right? They all admit they're liberal, Andrea.
MITCHELL: I don't think so.
O'REILLY: Have you asked [Matt] Lauer, and [Meredith] Vieira, and Ann Curry? They'll admit they're liberal. And when Katie [Couric] was there, she admitted she was liberal. Come on.
[end video clip]
SCARBOROUGH: Bob Kohn, can you name one conservative that's employed by NBC News?
KOHN: Joe Scarborough.
SCARBOROUGH: Thank you, buddy. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, you win! Why is Bill -- why is Bill O'Reilly doing this? Is this really about the fact that he's very angry that he went after Keith Olbermann, Keith Olbermann went after him, and they started this feud that's going to make Keith Olbermann a very rich man?
KOHN: No, no. I think Bill O'Reilly considers himself a media watchdog. And there are a lot of media watchdogs out there, like Media Matters. And when he sees something he doesn't like or where there's something that's biased, he calls them on the carpet. I think it's very clear that NBC News has become -- has been leaning to the left very sharply over the -- particularly over the past six months. So he's just a media watchdog. And, by the way, Bill O'Reilly --
SCARBOROUGH: Do you think -- hold it. Whoa, hold on a second.
[crosstalk]
KOHN: -- you, you, no, no, no, hold on. No, no you hold on.
SCARBOROUGH: OK, you go ahead.
KOHN: OK, one sec, because a minute ago I think I heard you say that he never criticizes Fox Entertainment. Well, he has. As you remember, he highly criticizes Fox Entertainment for trying to put on that O.J. interview a few weeks ago. You know, I was on this show saying that Fox Entertainment made a mistake, that Murdoch should have allowed that interview, because in the furtherance of the truth. You disagreed with that, but you and O'Reilly agreed. And O'Reilly made a public battle, and I think he was responsible for Murdoch's not showing that interview. And they dropped that O.J. Simpson book. So O'Reilly does criticize both sides. He does it all the time. And because he's criticizing NBC for being biased -- he's done that against The New York Times -- I think you're making a big deal, really, out of nothing here.
SCARBOROUGH: Making something out of nothing? The guy has basically said that we support terrorists in Iraq.
[...]
KOHN: That's what's going on -- NBC -- it's turning way to the left and they're doing it because their ratings are going down.
[crosstalk]
SCARBOROUGH: Day after day after day?
KOHN: Yes, for years. Come on, Joe, you agree. You've agreed, NBC, ABC, CBS --
SCARBOROUGH: The ratings are going -- you know what? Not to blow our own horn, but if you go on TV Newser tonight and look at ratings, year-to-year -- and I think it's the latest post -- I think Olbermann is up 51 percent year-to-year. I'm up 48 percent year to year. O'Reilly is down 24 percent. All of the Fox shows are down over the past year. Who's going up and who's going down? I don't think it's a close call.
KOHN: Oh, a close call? Come on. O'Reilly has two and a half million viewers every night. Olbermann has what, 600,000?
SCARBOROUGH: You're the one -- you're the one that's talking about trends.
[crosstalk]
KOHN: O'Reilly has nearly five times the audience?
[crosstalk]
SCARBOROUGH: And again --
KOHN: It's not talking about apples and oranges, though.
SCARBOROUGH: Bob Kohn, no, but we're not talking about apples and oranges. You're talking about NBC News is losing right now because they're going liberal. What I'm telling you is our ratings have gone up. Meet the Press is still the king on Sunday mornings --
KOHN: I'm not talking about Meet the Press. I'm talking about Brian Williams.
[crosstalk]
SCARBOROUGH: -- the Today Show is the king, and Brian Williams is still holding his own. He has been for quite some time.
KOHN: Just barely. Just barely. [ABC World News anchor] Charlie Gibson has been gaining on him.
[crosstalk]
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, just barely, number one, just barely.
[crosstalk]
KOHN: You know. You have to admit it. Come on.
SCARBOROUGH: Paul Waldman, I'll end up with you, Paul. All right, Bob, we don't always agree, but we usually do, but tonight I just can't agree with you. Paul Waldman, finally, the question is -- because Bob Kohn said NBC News needed to be fair and balanced. Is Bill O'Reilly fair and balanced?
WALDMAN: Oh, of course -- of course not.
SCARBOROUGH: I mean, Bill O'Reilly said that he takes a position.
KOHN: Bill O'Reilly is a commentator.
WALDMAN: And the fact -- and the fact is that NBC News isn't liberal. I mean, at Media Matters over the past two years, we've located over 1,100 instances of conservative misinformation being passed through on NBC News. And NBC and MSNBC. And you have conservative hosts -- you don't have any liberal hosts --
[crosstalk]
KOHN: Media Matters is a liberal organization. Come on.
WALDMAN: That's a way of not dealing with an argument that you don't happen to like. And the fact --
KOHN: I have the facts.
WALDMAN: -- that President Bush's voice is balanced by some people who disagree with President Bush is not liberal bias. That's the facts.
SCARBOROUGH: We've got to go. Bob Kohn, I'm usually with you. You're usually on the side of the angels.
Apparently O'Blathering is going to have Stephen Colbert on his show, Jan. 18th, and Colbert having him on his show the same day...should be interesting...
3 to 1 odds say that Bill cancels his appearance because of 'all Colbert does is spin..' and 'he is a far-left looney, koola-aid drinker...'
"I would be very willing to debate Bill O'Reilly anytime, anyplace, anywhere"
Joe may not be well versed in how Mr. O operates. This leaves him open for an invitation to come on the 'Factor', where Bill calls the shots, controls the mics, and has exclusive talkover rights. Of course, if Joes doesn't agree to that, he becomes "a coward". Joe should add one more phrase to his challenge:
"... just as long as it's not Bill's show."
but Scarborough is clearly trying to hold Olbermann's audience with this. It's fun to watch 3 or 4 people on national television discuss what a FRAUD Bill O'Reilly truly is, but you have to look at Scarborough's motivations here as well. If George Bush were popular right now, he would be whoring for him like he was back in 2003 and 2004 before his poll numbers really started to sink in early 2005. O'Reilly is playing this as well. The irony is that by covering O'Reilly, there might be some of Olbermann's audience that misses at least part of his show in order to tune in to O'Reilly, since they are in the same time slot. OReilly probably realizes that and is playing it up probably, at least in part, for that reason as well. Also, O'Reilly is probably mad at Law and Order for doing a show based on the lawsuit that Andrea Mackris filed against him for sexual harassment--the one where she claims he called her up several times and described graphic sexual fantasies he had involving her and even asked her in person if she wanted to have sex with him, albeit indirectly perhaps.
THANK YOU. njguy93@yahoo.com
I wonder if O'Forcryingoutloudly is slowly being set up for the fall guy on cable tv...I keep envisioning the corporate lords as mafia bosses in a smoky dark room plotting who they are going to whack next because of insubordination (read: declining ratings), and the name they keep mentioning is Bill's...
If these people (Scarborough, Olbermann, O Reilly) continue to talk about each other as if they are really important, they will continue to wallow in their scarce to nonexistent ratings. Who gives a damn?
At first I got a laugh at Joe going after Bill, BUT enough is enough. I tune in to hear the latest political buzz NOT about their little "feud"
Don't start that - don't you know these people like O'Reilly and the rest have huge audiences, and what they say is gospel to so many - their influence is widespread and the damage they do to the fabric of our society if off the charts, and we need to call them on every single word they utter because they are dangerous and on and on and on........whew, I am out of breath.
I haven't seen that old Tommy condescension in ages , but here it is on display. Just a minor set a back I hope. These people you speak of most certainly have influence on a large segment of the conservative voting public, and you know it. That’s why GW and the bird murderer always show up on Fox and Limbaugh during campaign season, they have to be sure tot keep their base motivated to vote! But all in all you're still one of my favorite MMFA cons.
Is becoming a full-fledged loon. In just the past few months he published a book that was basically a hit list of people who are out to get him(dangerous to America, in his mind), launches a war on NBC, and just the other day called a liberal guest on his show a "lunatic" and insisted it was only "her opinion" that thousands of innocent Iraqis have been killed, injured, or otherwise adversely affected by bush's (lowercase intentional)"crusade" across Mesopotamia.
While he's on the subject of ER, maybe they could help him out with some meds.
"While he's on the subject of ER, maybe they could help him out with some meds."
-----
Or a lobotomy, but he'd come out exactly the same as he went in.
under very trying circumstances.
This segment seems to have descended into the dreaded "cable news foodfight," due to the extremely poor moderating skills of Scarborough.
But Paul Waldman handled himself very well, and made his points with authority and dignity in the melee.
was "steppin up" for MMFA.
that O'Numbnuts was going after ER. Maybe that scene was shoehorned in as something totally unrelated to the plot, but maybe it also had some dramatic or entertainment value. Perhaps somewhere in this land of 300 million people there are a couple of women who have had that exact same conversation. WTFC? The point is, this was a business decision, made by NBC which is running a business, for profit. If the people watching choose not......OUCH. Wait a minute, STOP THAT......Sorry, I was being channeled by Tommy or something.
I just think it's amusing that O'Dildo is making such a stink about one scene on one show when I don't recall him saying much at all to criticize ABC for airing that Pigpath to 9-11 revisionist history tripe. Or ESPN (both owned by Disney) for hiring brusque limpballs for football coverage? Or ABC again for getting Spocko's ISP to shut him down for calling for consumer boycotts of ABC owned radio stations for spewing hate-filled, violent right-wing garbage over the airwaves. Or an ABC executive being honored by a right-wing group saying that it is her mission to evangelize the entire world through the television media.
Being the objective "Independent" that he is, I'm puzzled by his lack of outrage.
to stand up for traditional values of decades past. You know, like the traditional values described in the novel 1984.
Bear in mind that, although Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough clearly vote the Republican line, they've both denied that conservative bias slanted the way they commented on the news. Now that Loofah Boy is calling out NBC old straight talk Joe is miffed that he's been branded a non conservative voice.
What I'm hoping for is an all out media war between the two stations...I'd be interested to see what the Ditto Bush Bots would think about debate brewing on the difference between a conservative and a Republican suck up.
MMFA is liberal, so that means nothing when they document conservative bias, it is obvious Kohn is conservative but claims NBC has take a left turn and is liberal.
I never have quite figured out how conservatives don't think they are biased but liberals always are. The only thing that makes sense is that since they are conservative it means they are always right all the time.
Amazing.
I thought it was interesteing how accomodating Scarborough was to Paul Waldman now that O'Reilly is attacking NBC. Contrast that to the last time Paul was on trying to tell him what a lout O'Reilly is only to have Scarbourough and his other guest (the idiot John Stossel I believe) take up the defense of O'Reilly and turn the discussion into an attack of Media Matters.