The Politico's Allen repeated baseless claim that McCain and Giuliani are "moderates"
In a February 15 Politico article on how "Republican presidential campaigns are suddenly giving" California voters "intense attention," chief political correspondent Mike Allen again cast Republican presidential candidates Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani as "candidates with moderate images in the mold of" California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. Allen quoted an anonymous "Republican strategist" saying "California is fundamentally a Western state, except for Los Angeles and Hollywood," but added his own caveat, writing: "A notable exception, however, is California voters' overwhelmingly [sic] support for abortion rights." Allen, however, failed to reconcile that fact -- California voters' support for abortion rights -- with his claim that McCain and Giuliani have "moderate images," suggesting that they would be appealing to California voters. In fact, as Media Matters for America has previously pointed out, McCain's record on abortion -- the issue Allen identifies as having central importance to California voters -- is characterized by inconsistencies and evasiveness, rather than moderation, and Giuliani has very recently flip-flopped on one aspect of the issue while denying that he was doing so.
As Media Matters noted, Allen, on the February 14 edition of Fox News' America's Newsroom, similarly claimed that McCain and Giuliani are "socially moderate Republicans."
From Allen's February 15 Politico article:
This year though, the state suddenly looks alluring to Republicans -- and not just for the cash or dreams. The Republican presidential campaigns are suddenly giving the state intense attention for two reasons:
* California is poised to move its presidential primary from June, when it was irrelevant, up to Feb. 5, creating a potential jackpot near the start of the nominating contests.
* Giuliani and McCain are pro-business candidates with moderate images in the mold of Schwarzenegger, a Republican who easily won re-election in November. Golden State experts say that if either one heads the GOP ticket, he could put the state in play for the general election -- a seismic change in an electoral map where the same states get disproportionate attention in election after election.
[...]
Both McCain and Giuliani are working hard in high-tech Silicon Valley and the agricultural Central Valley. "The key is that California is fundamentally a Western state, except for Los Angeles and Hollywood," said a Republican strategist following the race closely.
A notable exception, however, is California voters' overwhelmingly [sic] support for abortion rights. If Schwarzenegger had been anti-abortion, analysts agree, he probably would not have been elected.
As Media Matters noted, McCain said in 1999 that he "would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade," but then issued a "clarification" several days later, reportedly saying: "I have always believed in the importance of the repeal of Roe vs. Wade, and as president, I would work toward its repeal." In 2005, he adopted yet another position, saying that he agreed "to some degree" that Roe v. Wade should be overturned. In 2006, McCain also issued a statement indicating that if he were the governor of South Dakota, he "would have signed" a controversial bill outlawing all abortions except when the life of the woman is threatened, but that he "would also take the appropriate steps under state law -- in whatever state -- to ensure that the exceptions of rape, incest or life of the mother were included." As New York Times columnist Paul Krugman noted: "But that attempt at qualification makes no sense: the South Dakota law has produced national shockwaves precisely because it prohibits abortions even for victims of rape or incest."
Giuliani has shifted his stance on abortion in a seeming effort to appeal to religious conservatives. As Media Matters noted, Giuliani now says he supports a ban on so-called "partial-birth" abortions, despite opposing such a ban in 2000. Giuliani explains his current support by noting that the current law banning the procedure contains an exception when necessary to protect "the life of the mother." This explanation, however, lacks credibility, because, as blogger and media critic Greg Sargent wrote: "The version of the ban that Rudy opposed back then contained the provision for the life of the mother that Rudy is now saying is a prerequisite for his support of it." According to a February 10 New York Times article, "Mr. Giuliani's campaign aides say his positions on abortion have not changed, and that his stand on what critics call partial-birth abortions has been mischaracterized, saying he opposed a ban only if it failed to include an exception to protect the life of the mother."
Also, as Media Matters noted, before becoming mayor, Giuliani trumpeted his opposition to abortion rights but reportedly shifted his position following the U.S. Supreme Court's July 1989 decision in Webster v. Reproductive Health Services. In an October 13, 1989, article, The New York Times called Giuliani a "support[er]" of "the right of a woman to choose an abortion." Giuliani said he had "talk[ed] to [his] wife" about the issue following the Webster decision. The Associated Press explained in an October 13, 1989, article: "Once an outright opponent, [Giuliani] now says he supports abortion rights, and would not seek to reduce funds or services, even though he remains personally opposed."















I think we covered this yesterday , McCain is not a moderate. Rudy is in my opinion because of his stance on Abortion, Gun Control and Gay Rights. But McCain is a CONSERVATIVE.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200702150002
Why is McCain a conservative again??? HE IS A LIBERAL in disguise, a very OLD liberal -
He is pro-illegal immigration, in 2000 called religious leaders "agents of intolerance" - not very Christian friendly there, opposed the federal gay marriage ban of `05, in `99 SF Chronicle he suggested that overturning Roe V Wade would lead to illegal abortions, authored McCain-Feingold Reform Act which of course conservatives hate, etc...
liberal enough for you?
We don't even need to touch on Giuliania, he's a BIG lib
What is McCain's position on Abortion?
What is McCain's position on Gun Control?
Depends on the day of the week, which election it is, what state he's in, who he's talking to, what his mood is, which serves him better, and what color underwear he's wearing.
McCain is in favor of illegal immigration?
You learn something new every day.
I'm guessing that's BS. No politician is for breaking the law as the first part of supporting "illegal immigration" would seemingly suggest.
I'm guessing the Colonel is referring to McCain's abysmmal record on legislation in support of securing our borders.
I link below to the very helpful website that Bruce often links to. I think everyone should take a look at John McCain's ratings on specific issues. There is no link I could find for Giuliani. I haven't quite made up my mind as to whether they are conservative, moderate or liberal. I guess I regard labeling exercises as trivial because of the subjectivity involved. Of course everyone is going to disagree how they see the candidates because we each have issues that are important to us that will inevitably differ from candidates.
Threads like these are pretty worthless, IMO. Thank God we haven't had many threads nitpicking about polls lately. They are just as terrible.
Tip of the hat to Bruce.
Kernel Klempt, you forget...after the thrashing he took in 2000, McCain has repented and kissed the Christofascists' ring. He's sucking up to the troglodytes big time, because he knows that the GOP nomination cannot be had without their blessing.
"Rudy is in my opinion because of his stance on Abortion, Gun Control and Gay Rights"
What if a candidate took a conservative position on all of these social issues that you just mentioned, but took liberal positions on economic issues? Would he or she be considered a moderate? Or would you label him or her a conservative because of his or her views on social issues? Do you have to be liberal on all social issues to be considered a moderate?
When one has an "inconsistent" record on abortion, then to pro-lifers he is absolutely a moderate, or liberal.
Guiliani and McCain are viewed moderately when compared to the other Republican presidential hopefuls, why is that misinformation?
It is misinformation because McCain is not a Moderate. When you go after the Falwell vote you are not a moderate. When you are Anti Choice you are not a moderate.
McCain courts Falwell because he is an opportunist, not a conservative.
I think this demonstrates the worthlessness of this thread. People resort to speculation and/or mindreading to make points.
O_M, are you pointing out worthless drivel as a productive instrument in an attempt to eradicate it?
If he is, damn good job.
I'm not as clever as that. I don't know if McCain is necessarily an opportunist or a conservative (how are they mutually exclusive either BTW?) simply based on his talking to Falwell. McCain's voting record, which I linked to above seemingly indicates the latter to me, I imagine both, neither or one of the two possibilities could be true, but I am not going to try to read McCain's mind to make a point.
Credit sources for your quotes, Mr. Shackleford.
footnotes
footnotes
footnotes
h/t Tommy
Slightly off Topic
But Matthews was pushing The Politico last night on his show in regard to the May Republican Presidential Debate at the Reagan Library.
Are we in reruns already?
Yeah, it was either this or a "Matlock" rerun on the other channel.
was it the episode of matlock where he figures out who the real killer is at the end and wins?
I saw that one
how about that one twilight zone episode where the guy wakes up and he is the same but everything else is different?
I like that one too. And the Addams Family episode where a stranger comes to their house, it slowly dawns on him how weird it all is, and he gets freaked out and runs away.
No, that was the episode when I stumbled upon this website..........but I came back anyway.
:)
Or the Professor figures out a sure fire way to get off the island and then Gilligan screws it up?
Oddly enough, yes it was.
***MCCAIN IS A LIBERAL*** lets end this once and for all. I just posted this above but I want more replies so here we go:
He is pro-illegal immigration, in 2000 called religious leaders "agents of intolerance" - not very Christian friendly there, opposed the federal gay marriage ban of `05, in `99 SF Chronicle he suggested that overturning Roe V Wade would lead to illegal abortions, authored McCain-Feingold Reform Act which of course conservatives hate, etc...
We don't even need to touch on Giuliania, he's a RINO. He would do better as a Dem candidate and a hillary running mate. Actually I would like him MORE if he switched to dem.That was then, this is now. He's had a come to Jeeeezzzzzzuuuuuussssss meeting with the knuckledraggers since then. He's borned again.
Congratulations Nerzog. You've just disqualified yourself from being eligible to blog for the Edwards campaign. Cheers. ;-)
you have to admit those bloggers are arrogant and intolerant jerks. You wouldn't see them getting away with making fun of blacks, jews, or gays, or even muslims
Being forced to resign from the Edwards campaign - a dream job for a blogger, I'd bet - because of their comments is "getting away" with it?
Besides that, let's pretend the bloggers made fun of all the groups CplActionFigurine mentioned, what additional punishment besides resigning would the bloggers get? Should they be hanged, imprisoned, keel-hauled, what? What exactly does he think would happen to people who "mak[e] fun of blacks, jews, or gays, or even muslims"?
These were words and opinions on a freakin' web-page. It is not criminal and neither would it be if it had been said about "blacks, jews, or gays, or even muslims".
they got a pass by the liberal media, if it werent for billo theyd still be posting away and liberals wouldnt care because they are selective when calling out intolerance. this is just the latest example.
Col. Roy Campbell
Foxhound
Wait, is foxhound a new cartoon character? Are you tired of Col. Roy?
Come on HBL, try to keep up will you.
"After Big Boss's betrayal and apparent death, his executive officer, Col. Roy Campbell, takes over FOXHOUND in his stead. Campbell's FOXHOUND is more technology-savvy, relying more heavily on communication equipment, signal intelligence, and spy satellites than when Big Boss was in charge of the unit. Under his command, members of FOXHOUND less-frequently use code names, although Solid Snake retains his out of habit."
Oops!
Forgot to give you the source of my information.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOXHOUND#Under_Col._Roy_Campbell.27s_command_.281995-2000.29
Thanks King, I'm up to speed.
and BTW, I've got yer "Solid Snake"....riiiiight here!
If you say anything about who's chin that "Solid snake" is going to rest on, I might flag this myself.
if you flag it ill flag you for homophobia.
You, Kernel, are a homophobiaphobe.
I understand they criticized certain specific stands that the church takes that they argued as being bad for woman rights. That’s not anywhere close to making fun of Blacks, Jews, gays, or Muslims. Are you suggesting that woman should appreciate policies that make them more vulnerable to unwanted pregnancies. If I was a woman I would also give that policy a big f. you.
Biting satire against specific policies by a nation, state or church is not the same as racism.Careful, gamepiece! If you persist in off-topic, and false, characterisations of the bloggers, MMFA will be forced to devote an article to your mis-information.
Since the language of the bloggers themselves pales by comparison to the Donohue apostles eagerly filling the bloggers' mailboxes with postings that scarcely miss a single curse-word per paragraph; and since there is absolutely no attack on the persons who believe (other than to wonder HOW), but only upon the reactionary and misogynistic policies of the Church with regard to women; and since those policies on their face, place women in subservience, consign them to be only means by which MEN may reproduce; and since all the reasons adduced in support of those positions reduces to "some other guy once said women should be subservient, so it has become tradition"; I feel compelled to take issue with your assertions.
They may be moderate. Moderate what? We have no idea.
Moderate fascists....you know, who want a kindler gentler imperial police state.
C'mon you silly, effete, latte drinking Northeasterners-- they're movaricks.
You couldn't get more Moderate then either of them.
You couldn't get more Moderate then either of them.- ldoren1626
They sound like extreme moderates, or possibly moderate extremists.
They take moderation TO THE EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEME!!!!!!
That word is now spelled " X - treme", as decided by marketing groups nationwide.
Except by converting to humanity.
Compared to some of the candidates (announced or potential) these two can be labeled as Moderates in the little gray book I'm putting together for the upcoming campaign. The labels may change as information comes out, but as of now, they are labeled Moderates (as opposed to Brownback on one side and Kucinich on the other).
Politico has a comment section for all of its stories. Politely point out to them that this story is BS.
It's such a shame that Mike Allen plays loose with the facts about the true positions of both McCain and Giuliani. I thought higher of him. It speaks to the trouble the Republicans are having fielding candidates to get a win without moderates hopping on. McCain was attractive in 2000 as the "mavarick", but his rep is shredded with his kissing up to right wing backers he once vilified. Giuliani was not so user friendly pre 9/11. He'll have a hard time carrying New York. If a politician has no core values, and makes a campaign based on major flip flops, we should vote for 'other".
Media Matters is right. The claim that McCain and Giuliani are both moderates is a baseless one. McCain may be a moderate, but Giuliani is an outright liberal. He would be the most liberal Republican President in our nation's history.
Other than Bill Clinton though, right?
I said that he would be the most liberal Republican. Bill Clinton is a Democrat, genius.
Just a legibility issue - somehow we are stuck in italics? This is unlikely, but </i>
Oh, well! Now a page-change to see if that helps?