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Wash. Post published four op-eds attacking prosecution and trial of Libby, none supporting them

February 21, 2007 6:02 pm ET
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During the weekend before closing arguments in the perjury trial of former vice presidential chief of staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, The Washington Post published two guest op-eds critical of the prosecution of Libby or of the conduct of the trial. Since a federal grand jury indicted Libby on October 28, 2005, the Post has published a total of four op-eds condemning the indictment and prosecution or suggesting that the trial is unfair. By contrast, since Libby was indicted, the Post has not published a single op-ed supporting the prosecution.

On February 17, the Post published a piece by National Review White House correspondent Byron York, who made the point that evidence regarding the status of former CIA operative Valerie Plame -- covert, classified, or neither -- has been excluded from the trial as irrelevant to whether Libby lied or obstructed justice, despite the fact that it was the leak of her identity that touched off the investigation. York concluded that "[t]he result is that jurors have heard constant suggestions that some sort of crime, committed by the administration and perhaps by Libby himself, lies at the bottom of the case. An air of accusation hangs over the courtroom. But the accusation can't be discussed." The second trial-related op-ed published by the Post since the start of the trial -- a February 18 Outlook section op-ed by Reagan administration Deputy Assistant Attorney General Victoria Toensing -- attacked the prosecution of Libby as irresponsible and laid out a set of "charges" against special counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald, the CIA, Plame's husband and former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, former Attorney General John Ashcroft, and others. Several claims in her op-ed have been challenged as false (for example, here and here), and others have called the Post's publication of Toensing's piece an attempt at jury tampering.

A Media Matters for America survey of op-eds published in the Post that have mentioned Plame, Libby, or Fitzgerald since October 28, 2005, found that four have denounced or suggested unfairness in the prosecution and trial of Libby, including the pieces by Toensing and York in the past week. During the same period, no op-ed has appeared that was supportive of the prosecution. In addition, the Post has published two op-eds that took no position on the indictment or the trial. The Post also published 10 op-eds that commented on issues connected to, but ultimately separate from, the Libby trial.

Washington Post guest op-eds since October 28, 2005, that mention Plame, Libby, or Fitzgerald*:

(Against indictment) 10/29/2005, David B. Rivkin, Jr. and Lee A. Casey:

Special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald's indictment of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby should be the final proof that the system of "special prosecutors" is bankrupt and ought to be abandoned.

Fitzgerald, a highly respected federal prosecutor from Chicago, was given the task of investigating whether Bush administration officials had violated the Intelligence Identities Protection Act by "leaking" the identity of CIA employee Valerie Plame.

It is clear that, at least by sometime in January 2004 -- and probably much earlier -- Fitzgerald knew this law had not been violated. Plame was not a "covert" agent but a bureaucrat working at CIA headquarters. Instead of closing shop, however, Fitzgerald sought an expansion of his mandate and has now charged offenses that grew entirely out of the investigation itself. In other words, there was no crime when the investigation started, only, allegedly, after it finished. Unfortunately, for special counsels, as under the code of the samurai, once the sword is drawn it must taste blood.

(Neutral on indictment) 10/30/2005, Lewis L. Gould, on the permanent campaign:

During a campaign, attacking the opponent's motives is part of the cut and thrust of politics, and so the substance of charges can be finessed with the claim that their author had worked for the opposition or had some other hidden agenda. In the case of Wilson, the attack on him fit with the principle of rapid retaliation so characteristic of a campaign. Less thought was apparently devoted to whether revealing the identity of his wife, a CIA employee, served the interests of wise and prudent governance. Whatever the outcome of the charges filed Friday against [Vice President Dick] Cheney aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, the apparent blurring of the line between campaigning and governing is evident in the indictment returned by the federal grand jury.

(Neutral on indictment) 11/6/2005, Michael N. Levy, on the difficulties of obtaining a conviction on perjury charges:

In the coming months, the political battle over the meaning of the indictment of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former chief of staff to Vice President Cheney, will be waged by Democrats and Republicans in the media and in the halls of Congress. The legal battle, however, will be waged by prosecutors and defense attorneys just three blocks west of the Capitol, at the E. Barrett Prettyman federal courthouse -- and the rules of engagement will be very different.

Only Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald's team knows the precise nature and scope of the evidence, but judging from the indictment, convicting Libby in a court of law is going to prove far more difficult than convicting the Bush White House in the court of public opinion.

That has a lot to do with the crimes alleged in the Libby indictment: perjury, making false statements and obstruction of justice. True, as any white-collar criminal defense attorney will tell you, it is often easier to convict someone of lying to investigators than it is to convict a person of committing the offenses that prompted the investigation in the first place. That's because there aren't many technicalities for defense lawyers to use when it comes to the relatively straightforward statutes about making false statements under oath. Indeed, that presumably explains why Fitzgerald, like those who prosecuted Martha Stewart, investment banker Frank Quattrone and the accounting firm Arthur Andersen, chose to pursue an indictment only on charges related to obstructing the investigation, not on the underlying offense. As is often the case, it's not the crime, it's the coverup.

(Tangential) 11/6/2005, Russell L. Riley, on diminishing White House paper trails and the increasing importance of oral history.

(Tangential) 11/27/2005, Douglas MacKinnon, on the direction of the Republican Party, mentions the Libby charges as one of many "damaging stories" that have caused the GOP to have a "perception problem."

(Tangential) 1/8/2006, Paul J. Williams (satire):

Valerie Plame: "I would just like to say to everyone that I'm very sorry I ever worked for the CIA. I realize that this mess is my fault -- I never wanted to be a '-gate.' I should have just told people I was undercover. To anyone who may have leaked my name and hurt my career, I want to say that I forgive you, and that I take full responsibility for choosing that career in the first place."

(Tangential) 3/5/2006, Alan Abramowitz, identifies Plame scandal as dragging down Bush's poll numbers.

(Tangential) 3/12/2006, David J. Rothkopf, "The Dick Cheney era of foreign policy is over. ... Third, Libby's legal woes over his alleged disclosure of a CIA operative's identity has been a huge distraction [for Cheney]."

(Tangential) 4/10/2006, Richard Sauber (Matthew Cooper's attorney), on source confidentiality and the issue of releases.

(Tangential) 4/23/2006, Ana Marie Cox, on Scott McClellan's attempts to keep the press at bay regarding the Plame story.

(Tangential) 6/18/2006, Joe Lauria, discussing his "role" in writer Jason Leopold's incorrect "scoop" that White House senior adviser Karl Rove had been indicted.

(Tangential) 6/29/2006, former Solicitor General Theodore B. Olsen, arguing for a federal reporter's shield law.

(Tangential) 7/9/2006, several journalism school deans, arguing that news organizations should err on the side of publishing, rather than withholding secrets. The piece asserts that sometimes the choice to not publish is clear: "For instance, there was no justification for columnist Robert D. Novak to have unmasked Valerie Plame as a covert CIA officer."

(Against indictment) 7/20/2006, Bruce W. Sanford and Bruce D. Brown, "The Futility of Chasing Leaks":

Almost three years to the day after he published his now-infamous "Mission to Niger" column in which he described Valerie Plame as a CIA "operative," Robert D. Novak revealed last week what he had told special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald about the sourcing for his article. By supplying corroboration of what has long been suspected -- that Fitzgerald knew almost immediately and on his own who Novak's three sources were -- Novak has further confirmed another truth about leak investigations: They are a huge, dangerous waste of time.

It took three years of numbing legal process, including bruising battles in the federal courts that have left the relationships between journalists and their sources more vulnerable, to get us here. And where exactly are we?

The criminal investigation into who in the government disclosed Plame's identity has essentially rendered the mission to uncover the "Mission to Niger" a mission to nowhere. A reporter was jailed for almost 90 days, but Novak's principal source, whose identity he still protects under the terms of their agreement, has not and will not be indicted under the federal law criminalizing the purposeful disclosure of truly covert agents, because the stringent requirements of that statute could not possibly be met.

But there's more futility -- and fatigue -- to come. The futility will be evident in the acquittal next year of Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. The acquittal will be yet another symbol of the misuse of prosecutorial time that is the big problem with leak investigations.

(Tangential) 2/14/2007, former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith, mentions Libby in the course of defending his work at the Pentagon.

(Unfair trial) 2/17/2007, York:

It is The Thing That Cannot Be Spoken at the Libby trial.

From the first day, [U.S. District Court judge Reggie] Walton has said that jurors will not be allowed to know, or even ask, about the status -- covert, classified or otherwise -- of Valerie Plame Wilson, the woman at the heart of the CIA leak case. "You must not consider these matters in your deliberations or speculate or guess about them," he told jurors in his opening instructions.

[...]

Walton's reasoning is this: The trial is about whether Libby lied to the grand jury in the CIA leak investigation. Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald never charged anyone with leaking the identity of a covert or classified agent. Libby isn't on trial for that, so jurors -- and judge -- don't need to know.

The problem is, the entire case stems from accusations that the Bush White House illegally leaked Mrs. Wilson's identity in an effort to get back at her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, for his high-profile criticism of the administration's case for war in Iraq. That's why the CIA leak investigation began, and it's why Libby appeared before a grand jury, leading to the perjury charges against him. It's what the CIA leak case is about. Yet Walton has told jurors to put it out of their minds.

[...]

Then there was the argument Fitzgerald had with defense lawyer Ted Wells over Fitzgerald's theory that Libby lied because he was afraid for his job after President Bush announced that anyone who leaked classified information about a CIA agent would be fired.

Wait a minute, said Wells. "The jury has been instructed that the issue of whether it was classified or whether she was covert will not be presented in this case."

"I'm not going to tell the jury the information was classified," Fitzgerald responded. "I will tell the jury that there was an investigation into whether the law was violated."

Of course, we all knew -- and the jury knew too, since it was discussed in Libby's grand jury testimony -- that the law to which Fitzgerald referred was the one barring disclosure of a covert agent's identity.

Outside the courtroom, Fitzgerald has said that Mrs. Wilson's status was in fact classified. The Libby indictment says that, too. But the judge has not allowed the jury to see the indictment, either.

The result is that jurors have heard constant suggestions that some sort of crime, committed by the administration and perhaps by Libby himself, lies at the bottom of the case. An air of accusation hangs over the courtroom.

But the accusation can't be discussed.

Maybe in the end, jurors will be able to make sense of it all. But it's more likely that even after the trial ends, they'll still have one question they want answered.

(Against indictment) 2/19/2007, Toensing:

Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald charged Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff with perjury on the theory that Libby had a nefarious reason for lying to a grand jury about what he told reporters regarding CIA officer Plame: He was trying to cover up a White House conspiracy to retaliate against Plame's husband, Joseph C. Wilson IV. Wilson had infuriated Vice President Cheney by accusing the Bush administration of lying about intelligence in the run-up to the Iraq war.

Fitzgerald apparently concluded that a purported cover-up was sufficient motive for Libby to trim his recollections in a criminal way. So when Libby's testimony differed from that of others, it was Libby who got indicted.

There's a reason why responsible prosecutors don't bring perjury cases on mere "he said, he said" evidence. Without an underlying crime or tangible evidence of obstruction (think Martha Stewart trying to destroy phone logs), the trial becomes a mishmash of faulty memories in which witnesses can seem as guilty as the defendant. Any prosecutor knows that memories differ, even vividly, and each party can be convinced that his or her version is the truthful one.

*As identified by the following search of the Nexis database: "pub(Washington Post) and section(Editorial or Op-Ed or Outlook or Opinion) and (Plame or Libby or (Pat! w/2 Fitz!)) and date aft 10/27/2005"

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    • Author by greekfurnace (February 21, 2007 6:07 pm ET)
         

      10 to 1, Libby gets off scott free. Unless there is some substantial piece of damning evidence... there will be a very unsatisfying end (for me) for this case.

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      • Author by jeter2 (February 21, 2007 7:01 pm ET)
           

        Hey Greek,

        Maybe I'm being overly optimistic here but I think they'll get a conviction for perjury. At least 7 or 9 [I can't recall which] people had conversations with Libby about Valerie Plame BEFORE his testimony to the FBI & Grand Jury. ...it's hard to fathom how Libby would FORGET having had those conversations or that any jury would believe his CLAIM after hearing the testimony that he heard about Plame for the first time from Russert. I'm feeling fairly confident the jury will be sharp enough to figure that out too.

        Now my pessimistic prediction...Even though I believe Libby will be convicted, watch for Bush to grant Libby a Pardon.

        Now I'm gonna go pour myself a cup of coffee & watch Hardball. I know most of you here dislike Chris Matthews...but he's done an outstanding job covering the Libby Trial.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by therick (February 21, 2007 7:15 pm ET)
             

          I'm more opimistic.  I think Scooter is going down, and I think Bush will let him burn.  Anything less, and the press will (finally) jump all over it, and do some heavy investigations.  At that point they will be able to expose the Wilson/Plame scandle, and toast Bush and Cheney for the fabrications that took us to war.

          [Rick wakes up, blinking his eyes, shaking his head. . .]  

           I think I just slipped into a coma for a minute there.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by greekfurnace (February 21, 2007 7:44 pm ET)
             

          We'll see. I hope you're right. And, of course, Bush will pardon. Executive privilege after all ;-)

          Report Abuse
          • Author by olivelawyers (February 22, 2007 3:06 pm ET)
               

            I think you're correct. It may be my paranoia thinking for me, that Libby has been so smiley and confident because the deal all along was that his team would not call Cheney and Bush will pardon if there is a conviction. I've also had the unhappy experience of a buried juror lobbying for foreperson and then lobbying for the government defendant in a civil case before finally being exposed near the end of a 3.5 month trial, and don't put that option past anyone, anymore.

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        • Author by Easy to refute wingnuts (February 22, 2007 2:31 pm ET)
             

          "Maybe I'm being overly optimistic here but I think they'll get a conviction for perjury."

          -----

          Which is the only thing he's been charged with so far. The reason it doesn't matter a whit in this trial whether Valerie Plame was undercover is that Libby hasn't been charged with releasing classified information, only lying about when he learned about it.

          Fitzgerald has made it clear by saying the only thing that matters in this trial is whether Libby perjured himself.

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        • Author by wolfbato (February 23, 2007 10:18 am ET)
             

          WRONG!!! Chris Matthews did not do the journalism ... Schuster and Olbermann led the way with overwhelming reporting and due dilegence. Matthews was forced to report the "actual facts". To say that Matthews who calls Tom Delay ".... a great guy" did a good job on reporting on the Libby case is laughable. Matthews is a hack and a exemplifies everything that is wrong with "the inside of the beltway" thought process.

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    • Author by conleytgwinn (February 21, 2007 6:28 pm ET)
         

      Darn it, the editorials throughout S.C.U.M.* are RIGHT! And I don't mean merely as oposed to my leftish position - I mean CORRECT! This indictment and trial are blatantly unfair! Here is this earnest sincere criminal just doing his normal business, and he is singled out for prosecution from a legion of others equally or even more guilty of both the underlying exposure of a covert agent, and the consequent cover-up.

      Fair would be to banish the lot of the Administration to The Hague, and have a MEANINGFUL trial for the various War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity which they have engendered and committed.

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    • Author by nerzog (February 21, 2007 6:31 pm ET)
         

      "Memories differ".  Well, yeah, but when several witnesses remember it one way and only the defendant remembers it his way,  what's likely to be true?

      <> The really obscene thing in this whole mess is that the war criminals in the white house leaked the information to discredit someone who blew the whistle on their pre-war lying.   If, as the flying monkeys claim, Wilson was lying, why didn't they just point that out, instead of going through all of this nonsense about his wife sending him?  BECAUSE THEY KNEW WILSON WAS RIGHT, THAT'S WHY.  THAT'S what we should be most concerned about here.  Only Congress can set that right.

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    • Author by IRONY 101 (February 21, 2007 6:57 pm ET)
         

      If memory serves me correctly, it was the CIA that felt that the revelation of Valerie Plame's identity was sufficiently compromising to its operations in which Ms. Plame had been involved that it complained to the Justice Department and requested an investigation. (The White House was hardly in a position to complain about the CIA's request for an investigation because it had already demonstrated a strident posture towards those who leaked America's secrets by demanding an investigation of even a Senate committee suspected of leaking.) Whether a crime had been committed in leaking Ms. Plame's identity was the subject of the investigation. How can the Justice Department perform that investigation and make the requisite determination of criminality if witnesses lie and obstruct justice during the investigation? Whether the Justice Department would have ultimately determined that a crime had been committed in outing Valerie Plame is not relevant with respect to the Scooter Libby trial... unless one subscribes to the odd notion that it is acceptable to lie and obstruct a Justice Department investigation because of a belief that no underlying crime will be found to have occurred.

      What is clear is that Libby lied. Why he lied is the bigger question and I suspect strongly that we will never have the privilege of knowing that answer. Did Libby lie to prevent political embarrassment or criminal exposure to his boss, Vice-President, Dick Cheney, who had apparently encouraged the outing of Valerie Plame while at the same time publicly pronouncing that he didn't even know who she was? Perhaps... Were any crimes committed, other than Libby's lies, during the entirety Valerie Plame matter ? We don't know, and will never know, because the investigation was compromised by lies and obstruction. To condemn the prosecution of Scooter Libby is to defend obstruction of justice... and somehow I fail to see how anyone can reconcile that. 

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    • Author by mefirst (February 21, 2007 7:11 pm ET)
         

      one of the "here" links above destroys the argument by the right wing that the law did not apply to plame because she had not lived outside the country for five years.  but the law says: "serving outside the united states", and plame apparently made trips overseas up to 2002. and another right wing talking point, made above, is: how are people to remember things after such a length of time? but novak's column, claiming two senior administration officials  gave him plame's identity, was within a month of all these conversations. libby had to have been going over exactly what he said to whom. and judith miller, who went to jail rather than talk, said libby wanted her to hide his connection to the white house. and there are two things that are undeniable. one, bush lied [what's new] when he promised to fire "anyone involved". two, if this had been the clinton administration, the right wing would have been in full impeachment mode the day after novak's column. i would like to see anyone deny that.

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      • Author by IRONY 101 (February 21, 2007 9:31 pm ET)
           

        "...destroys the argument by the right wing that the law did not apply to plame because she had not lived outside the country for five years."

        The best that the rigth wing could have said was that it was arguable that the particular law in question did not apply. The CIA complained because there was an expectation that a CIA operative's identity would be kept secret. How that CIA operative's identity became publicly known could conceivably involve any number of acts that could possibly be considered criminal under specific laws. That is why it is the purpose of the Justice Department to investigate thoroughly the entirety of the circumstances. This is a bogus argument by the right wing that because a certain statute was arguably inapplicable that neither an investigation nor a indictment for perjury were proper. The purpose of such an investigation is to determine whether any laws were broken when a CIA operative's identity came to be revealed against the wishes of the CIA (not just the laws the right wingers say don't apply). Regardless, lying and obstruction of justice in connection with such an investigation are prosecuatable offenses.

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        • Author by mefirst (February 22, 2007 6:46 am ET)
             

          what is beyond dispute is that libby and rove violated the security clearances they signed. those clearances said they were not to even confirm information unless they knew for sure it was declassified.

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          • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 7:34 am ET)
               

            Your point illustrates what I was talking about. The purpose of the investigation was to look into the entirety of the circumstances to determine if any laws were violated, not just about whether one particular law might, or might not, be applicable, as the right wing appears to twist this story.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 8:19 am ET)
                 

              Another illustration...

              Assume a woman smothers to death in bed under hard to explain circumstances. An investigation follows in which in which it is quickly determined that several people, including the woman's husband, had possible motives to kill her. A grand jury is convened. Although the final conclusion of the coroner is that the woman's death was probably accidental... a freak accident in which no crime was committed, during the course of the investigation evidence was developed that the husband had thought about killing his wife... and he had even explored that possibility with a potential hit man. The husband lies to a grand jury about his conversations with the potential hit man. Should the husband get a pass because there was no crime committed in his wife's death?

              If, hypothetically, in the Valeri Plame case one  law in particular regarding revealing CIA operatives' identities was drawn so tightly that it might not have included the circumstances of Valerie Plame's outing, an appropriate area of inquiry would have included whether at the time of the leak the leakers believed or had reason to believe they were most likely in violation of the law. In effect, the requisite intent, under the law, to commit a crime could have been present. I don't factually know this to be the case but I'm simply pointing out that just because it may have been determined at some point that one law in question probably wouldn't apply to the leaking of Valerie Plame's name, the purpose, scope and direction of the investigation would have necessarily included all sorts of different related matters and laws. So don't buy into this right wing media spin that because a particular law would not have made the outing of Valerie Plame a crime that the entire investigation and ultimate charges against Scooter Libby were somehow tainted or contrived. That is only right wing spin is not how it works in the real world... but the right wing always seems to have a problem with reality, in my observation.

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    • Author by truthseeker77 (February 21, 2007 8:25 pm ET)
         

      There are 10 whites and 2 blacks in the jury. Why is this racial distribution so inconsistent with the Washington D.C. racial breakdown, in which Blacks outnumber whites by a ratio of 2-1?

      This discrepancy was picked up Editor and Publisher a while ago:

      http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003535948 

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    • Author by tabkhan (February 21, 2007 9:20 pm ET)
         

      The Washington Post's editorial board is total freak and has been for some time; now the news division is drinking diet Kool Aid. It truly breaks my heart that one of America's great newspapers -- a one time rival of the much-revered NY Times -- is now a right wing rag and leading journal of America Haters, perverts, fiddle-faddlers and flip-floppers of the right.

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      • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (February 22, 2007 12:49 am ET)
           

        I think I posted this here before, but the thing that grates on me the most about the Bushy's defense is that Plame wasn't covert at the time of the leaks.

        When this first came out, I was watching the news with the father of a friend of mine, a very conservative L.A. County Sheriff narcotics officer, but a straight-up guy.

        He was just steamed at the defense, and explained to me some things I hadn't even considered; That to reveal the identity of a former undercover agent is to reveal every connection that they have made in their career, and put every one of those people in danger.

        I just love seeing this administration piss off old rightys.

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        • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 9:08 am ET)
             

          HBL, the CIA was apparently of the same mind as your law enforcement friend. The CIA believed that a potentially serious harm had occurred in revealing the identity of one of their operatives... so serious that they requested an investigation by the Justice Department to determine if any laws had been broken by anyone in the process of committing the harm.

          The right wing has cleverly focused on the word "covert" in only one particular law. They would have you believe that the entire investigation should have been bifurcated to only focus on the definition of that one word (covert) before doing anything else. But that's not how it works... a "harm' had been committed and the Justice Department was duty bound to investigate the entire circumstances, including, of course, considering any laws that potentially may have elevated the "harm'' to a crime. The gist of the right wing argument is that the Justice Department should have bifurcated the investigation and only directed their initial inquiry solely into the definition of "covert"... and then made a determination that Valerie Plame was not covert thus ending any further investigation of the serious "harm' reported by the CIA, or so the right wing would argue.

          But investigations don't proceed that way... the Justice Department isn't going to put the entire substantive investigation of a serious "harm" on hold until any internal legal wrangling over the definition of one word, in one possibly applicable law, reaches aome determination within the Justice Department... not in court, keep in mind, because it hadn't even reached the court stage. So, of course, an investigation of the entire matter, including facts to determine whether Valerie Plame was "covert" or not, would have been immediately comenced... and apparently that's exactly how it was (correctly) done. As the facts are being developed then the prosecutor can focus on, or even rule out, particular laws that may have been violated. This notion by the right wing that the investigation was somehow faulty because it didn't immediately rule out a crime because the word "covert" may not have applied to the circumstances is typically bogus. The bottome line, as your narc friend pointed out, is that an intelligence agency suffered a serious "harm" as a result of an irresponsible and appearingly intentional leak. Any truely loyal American, in my opinion, would want investigators to leave no stone unturned under those circumstances. Not the right wing though... although I am sure they must all be truly loyal Republicans... uh, I meant to say "truely loyal Americans". Sorry for the slip...

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          • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 9:19 am ET)
               

            Sorry for the typos, too.

            BTW, HBL, what you doing hanging out with a narc.? Don't you know real liberals condone illegal drug  use?. If you don't use or condone illegal drugs then I hope you're either an atheist, have had an abortion, or you are married gay person, or all of the above... just to copensate for your other deficiency in liberal qualifications.  ;>)

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            • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (February 22, 2007 10:26 am ET)
                 

              Irony, it was my buddy's dad, actually a retired narc. We were at his house under the pretense of dropping off something for his wife, but I was actually looking for his confiscated "stash".I am, in fact, in a polygamous marriage with my sister, a transexual, and two gay men, all of whom have had abortions on demand.Hail Satan.

              There, am I back on track? 

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              • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 10:43 am ET)
                   

                "...in fact, in a polygamous marriage with my sister, a transexual, and two gay men, all of whom have had abortions on demand.Hail Satan."

                Wheew... I am indeed relieved to hear that! I was worried about you for a minute... nothing worse than those damn family values that we liberals either know nothing about or elect to derisively ridicule and ignore in practice. ;>)

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    • Author by easygoer002209 (February 22, 2007 10:37 am ET)
         

      Scooter was Cheneys Chief of Staff as well as an advisor to the President.  This man was paid for his attention to details...and one of the top details was this article Wilson wrote.  Cheney clipped it from the newspaper and scribbled a very direct message on it about Plame and sent that to Libby.  That he could forget such a thing would be patently absurd.

      I can't fathom the jury not concluding this was a manufactured lie, engineered to protect either Libby or the VP (doesnt matter who).

      But I totally disagree with one previous posting that predicted the press would "jump on this story" if Bush pardoned Scooter.  I just flat out disagree with that prediction, and quite frankly can see no basis for thinking the media will ask ANY tough questions.  The last reporter who tried was rebuked like a child for burping at the dinner table...and no more questions followed.

      Hark back to Whitewater....despite the matter being reviewed by the RTC, which found no wrongdoing on the Clinton's part, the media were all about investigations that had no direction whatsoever.  There were no charges EVER filed against the Clintons on Whitewater, yet the media fed those flames for seven years.

      The media don't like this story for two distinct reasons...1) it exposes a comeraderie they have with the GOP that is cozy enough to betray their ethical obligations (at the VERY least)...and 2) they just don't have an appetite to investigate Repubs and ask tough questions, lest they be blackballed.

      The media don't approve of this investigation yet they still welcome Clinton zippersniffing.  So what else is new?

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      • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 11:11 am ET)
           

        The media can also be surprisingly lazy sometimes, or clueless, in failing to either grasp the important facts and issues or to explain them thoroughly and correctly. I've rarely heard the media thoroughly explain the importance of the Plame affair in terms of the potential harm to our intelligence community and thus why it was important to proceed with an investigation and prosecution. They all focus entirely too much on the political spin instead.

        Only the CIA knows how much harm resulted from, or could have resulted from, the public disclosure of Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA operative. I don't care whether she technically classified as "covert" or not... the point is that her employment as a CIA operative was intended to remain a secret.  As far as we know, Valerie Plame may have once played a very small peripheral role, lasting no more than a minute, in a larger CIA operation, in which she was several steps removed from the real meat of the operation. She may even have not known that she played an incidental role in a larger operation. Nevertheless, once her identity as a CIA operative was made public any enemy intelligence service could conceivably, and perhaps easily, connect the dots from her to a larger CIA operation.

        If memory serves me correctly, at the Libby trial there was evidence introduced, perhaps testimony, of a CIA analyst or advisor, upon hearing or reading that Plame's identity had been revealed, commented that perhaps as many as several hundred (?) operatives and agents had potentially been compromised as a result. That's serious business! And the CIA took it seriously too...

        In context, Cheney and Rumseld were at war with the CIA over pre-war intelligence. Cheney and Rumsfeld apparently believed the CIA was undercutting their pro-war intelligence. However, had Cheney acted responsibly, the moment he learned that Joe's Wilson's wife worked at the CIA and had played some role in sending Wilson to Niger, he or Bush (who was reportedly good buddies with George Tenet) could have easily picked up the phone and summoned Tenet to the White House for a talk... and they could have asked "George, what the f*ck is going on? Do you have people in the CIA trying to cut our legs out from under us?" If the White House thought that Plame had acted improperly and something funny was going on to undercut the reasons fo war they could have demanded an investigation... had they been responsible, that is.

        Maybe it's just me and I'm getting too worked up over the Plame matter, but I just don't see enough incisive reporting about it in the media.

         

        Report Abuse
        • Author by conleytgwinn (February 22, 2007 12:55 pm ET)
             

          Irony: despite the moniker, you summarise quite well!

          Report Abuse
          • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 1:28 pm ET)
               

            Thanks... I just don't type worth a shiet... or proof-read, for that matter, either. Oh, well... we already know how imperfect liberals are.  ;>)

            Report Abuse
        • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 2:19 pm ET)
             

          Would that you get as "worked up" regarding the leaking of top secret methods used to thwart terrorists that someone in the CIA leaked  to the NYTimes.

          Your disengenuousness is amazing. You are getting worked up over an aide, who was not the first to disclose Plame's identity to the press, (that would be Armitage,) when it is not even proven that disclosing her identity is against the law.  

          Where is the outrage at her husband's lies and misrepresentations i his article and interviews? Was not his hit piece purely politicaly motivated to hurt the Administration's conduct of the war and re-election?  Why no outrage that Wilson, who I do believe was on Kerry's payroll, used his position to falsely accuse the Administration of lying?      

          Oh that's right. There's no outrage because you're a Democrat and Bush is Republican.

          Forgive me, but I am nonplussed by your partisanship and myopic "outrage". 

          the Libby trial is purely a political witchhunt with a prosecutor who went completely Nifong.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 2:55 pm ET)
               

            You're so hopeless... I wouldn't even know where to begin to start (easily) refuting your misrepresentations of facts, so I won't even bother... have a nice Republican life.

            P.S. America is hip to Bush and Cheney... maybe you and a handful of your cronies are the few exceptiions but I think most people can't wait until Bush leaves office so some semblance of sanity and security returns and finally someone can start to clean up Bush's f*ckups. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 3:18 pm ET)
                 

              I understand that you want to live in your Democratic bubble, mindlessly slopping up everything that MMFA dishes out. That's cool. I like your rebuttal. It saves us both a lot of time. :-) 

              Time will tell whether Bush was right or not. I'm afraid that even though you are eager, you'll just have to wait along with the rest of us.

              As a side note, it is interesting how the Democratic pretenders have already started eating their own.  It reminds me of Will Rodgers quote, "I don't belong to an organized party. I'm a Democrat."

              Speaking of comments, I had to laugh at Geffen's comments.  Somehow he's coming around to what I've known for years.  ;-)

              Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see the MMFA posting.

              ps. Have a good day. I enjoy reading your comments.  

              Report Abuse
              • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 3:32 pm ET)
                   

                oh wait.. I found a reference to Geffen.

                See Altercation on the left hand side of the home page

                :-)  

                Report Abuse
              • Author by bingvangorden (February 22, 2007 4:35 pm ET)
                   

                That's right it's liberals that follow along like sheep. Boy you got us pegged. I better go get my daily dose of brain washing by the corporate elite liberal media.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (February 22, 2007 8:10 pm ET)
                   

                Wow. YOU telling us about our partisan bubble is about like listening to a lesson on manners from Micheal Weiner or a pious scolding on anti Semitism from Adolph Hitler. Your post was PURE delusion. YOU have lost all touch with reality. Back away from the koolaid, you are delusional enough

                Report Abuse
            • Author by olivelawyers (February 22, 2007 3:22 pm ET)
                 

              Hopeless indeed.

              Interesting insights in all your posts on this thread.

              I still get uptight over the way the fundamental ethical considerations by a respectable prosecutor is totally ignored. Fitzgerald, from the beginning, has refused to condemn anyone he didn't think he had evidence to convict. An ethical prosecutor does not seek an indictment for the sake of an indictment, he seeks justice. He does not spend his life selling his case to the public (which is why the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse case is making so many lawyers puke). In this case, he has repeatedly remarked on the fact that when he was appointed to the mission of investigating whether there was a crime for which indictments should issue, he didn't intend to comment on matters where indictments would not follow. Likewise, he has steadfastly held to the position that the reason the trial of Libby is so important, outside the mere fact that he believes he has sufficient evidence to not only indict, but convict, the man for the commission of a felony, is that when the witnesses lie, it impedes the ability to convict for the offenses initially being investigated. To me, it is not a far stretch to read into that statement the very real practical recognition that others ... perhaps many others ... have also lied, in ways that keep him from putting together a case for conviction, but Libby is the only one he has enough evidence to make for a probably conviction.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by olivelawyers (February 22, 2007 3:25 pm ET)
                   

                And I must have attended the same school of editing as you.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 3:53 pm ET)
                   

                I understand his point of view.. one of a lawyer. It is self serving in my opinon.

                IMHO it is a sad state of affairs when this prosecutor has ethical problems of his own in hiding evidence that exonerates the whole reason for the investigation, which was political in the first place, in order to prosecute someone who had the prosecutor been forthright, would never have been charged with the alleged secondary breach of law.

                To borrow an analogy used earlier, a prosecutor thinks someone murdered a woman. The prosecutor asks around and reporter says Libby told me before anyone else he killed the woman. Libby says he did tell him that he did it but doesn't remember telling him he did it on that date . You then find out there is not enough evidence that the woman was murdered. In fact, she is not even dead. But you prosecute Libby because your sources said he told them he did it on that date.

                I know my analogy is not perfect, but it seems to me the legal system has been corrupted by legalese that someone by charged for lying about something that was not prosecuted as a crime to begin with?  That doesn't look like justice to me. It looks like a vendetta. 

                 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by easygoer002209 (February 22, 2007 4:09 pm ET)
                     

                  your analogy is not perfect, indeed.

                  Fitzgerald is not finished.  Scooters particular perjury was designed to impede this investigation into who leaked Plames name.  Hence the Obstruction charges.

                  Scooter lied about the crime Fitz is investigating...this isn't a secondary crime.  It's a crime designed to conceal the crime being investigated.

                   

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by olivelawyers (February 22, 2007 4:24 pm ET)
                     

                  I've never been a prosecutor - I have been a defense attorney and I've been a litigator for 35 years. I don't grasp the "self serving" point. Lawyers, like car salesmen, Red Cross workers and Presidents can be good, bad, honest or corrupt. For the most part, people castigating them as unethical or dishonest as a class fail to remember that lawyers don't take the stand and testify under oath. They zealously argue the merit of their clients' evidence, including the clients' testimony and that of his witnesses. I, and others I know, have done as we are required to do when it becomes clear that a client lies under oath: we give the client the option of correcting the testimony, versus watching us withdraw. That's because even if we have a case that can reward us handsomely, we are not supposed to allow perjury to subvert the system.

                  Every American (including you, AnotherAmerican) who believes in Constitutional government for this country should recognize the fact that the judicial system of justice - especially criminal justice - is flawed enough without having folks taking pot shots at the people who dedicate their lives to making it work on the basis of political blinders. That is a specific reference to suggesting that a person who commits perjury -as Libby has been accused of doing - should not be tried for the felony offense that exists to help preclude corruption of this fundamental protector of both society and the individual.

                   You know, people were screaming for Clinton's head because he lied about a b/j. The motive being presented in the evidence against Libby is that he lied to keep the American Public from knowing the truth behind what was an exaggeration at best and a lie at worst by the two highest men in government. Perhaps I'm being unfair in thinking you just might have been one of them.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by olivelawyers (February 22, 2007 4:26 pm ET)
                       

                    An exaggeration or lie that led to the blood of hundreds of thousands of people, many of them civilians - innocent old people, women and children.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by olivelawyers (February 22, 2007 4:27 pm ET)
                         

                      And I'm sorry, thought I was replying to Another american. Still stand by what I wrote.

                      Report Abuse
          • Author by easygoer002209 (February 22, 2007 4:01 pm ET)
               

            Calling Cheney's Chief of Staff an "aide" is an understatement.  Scooter isn't a mere co-worker in Cheney's office.  He ran Cheneys office.  And Cheney was deeply involved in the attacks on outing Plame, as was Rove, despite Bush and McClellan's proclimations of their innocence.

            Calling Scooter's trial a political witch hunt leaves me with the idea that you evidentally believe that he merely forgot the truth of a material fact that was closely related to his job.  And you would have to believe that he forgot the truth over ten times, despite being reminded by Fitz that he was before a Grand Jury (which he knew anyway).  The only other alternative is that you don't believe perjury and obstruction of justice crimes are serious, and you can't believe that, can you? 

            This isn't a political issue.  Scooter almost surely committed perjury, in my view.  We'll see how the jury sorts it out.  But anybody who commits perjury should be charged.

            Ken Starr was on the witch hunt.  His lack of charges against Clinton are the definition of a witch hunt.  He selectively leaked to the press lots of things he couldn't claim in court.  Scooter is not being hunted.  Scooter lied to Fitzgerald and Fitzgerald charged him with a crime.  It doesn't matter if Scooter were a Democrat, I'd still be unable to defend his actions.

            I submit to you that your eternal defense of Repubs, no matter what they do....is politically motivated.  Defend Libby's actions please?  Just try one paragraph!

            Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 4:14 pm ET)
                 

               A small point.  The term 'aide' is not mine. 

              See the section above referring to the 10/30/3005 article by Lewis Gould.  

              Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 4:20 pm ET)
                 

              Easy,

              What I find perplexing, is why would Libby, if he himself is a lawyer and aledgedly a smart one at that, knowingly commit perjury over something like this?  You may say he's taking one for the team, but it frankly, that does not compute in my book.  

              The fact remains that Fitzgerald already knew who first leaked Plame. It was Armitage. The rest, in my opinion, is moot.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by bingvangorden (February 22, 2007 4:27 pm ET)
                   

                he lied to cover an act of treason. If your going to lie, that would probably be a good time to.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 4:35 pm ET)
                     

                  Bing,

                  Obvious to everyone but the hard core, there was no act of treason, 

                  Thanks everyone for the discussion. I've added my two cents. you can keep the change. :-)  

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by bingvangorden (February 22, 2007 4:41 pm ET)
                       

                    No unfortunately you are ill informed. Many might not understand it because the msm is complacent but an act of treason was committed. Valerie Wilson's undercover status fits the criteria, according to her former employer the CIA. Scooter, Rove, Armitage and the rest might have not known she was undercover. But the person who told them certainly did. There is ample testimony in this trial that illustrates the line to the Vice President's office. You can keep your two cents.

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (February 22, 2007 8:17 pm ET)
                       

                    There was by George Srs definition

                    Report Abuse
              • Author by olivelawyers (February 22, 2007 4:29 pm ET)
                   

                Gosh. Nixon must have been really ignorant when he committed his felony.

                 Power corrupts. Nobody is immune to the mistakes born of their own arrogance - just ask Bill Clinton.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by easygoer002209 (February 22, 2007 4:39 pm ET)
                   

                so anotheram...

                You really do believe that he simply forgot about this Plame factor regarding the Wilson article?

                Libby's job was paying attention to the details that the VP directed him to attend to.  Cheney clipped the Wilson article out of the newspaper and penned a note directing Scooters attention to his wife possibly sending him on the mission, as in "junket."

                Hey. maybe the jury agrees with you here.  I'd be astonished.  Either Scooter goes to prison, or Scooter gets a pardon...those are the two avenues I foresee.  I dismiss the possibility you are holding out for...that the jury will find him not guilty.

                I suspect Scooter lied to protect himself, but he could have just as easily decided to protect Cheney politically, to answer your question as to why he did it.

                If Scooter is convicted of Perjury and/or Obstruction...don't you have to condemn that?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 4:51 pm ET)
                     

                  First, if he is convicted, which I do not think will happen, I'll then reappraise my viewpoint.

                  Many people here are saying with certainty that Libby knowingly committed perjury. They have already pre-judged and convicted.

                  It would be interesting to see how many, if any, who post here will also reconsider when Libby is found innocent.  

                  Don't worry. I'm not holding my breath.

                  ps. Maybe Libby will be fined like our good friend, Sandy Berger who stole top secret documents from the National Archives. ;-)

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by easygoer002209 (February 22, 2007 5:08 pm ET)
                       

                    unfortunately, for Scooter, he didn't do the same thing as Berger, so there was never a charge of perjury against Berger.

                    Maybe they'll do to Libby what the three ICs did to Clinton--nothing--...no, wait, too late, they already charged Libby with a crime. 

                    Comparing the Berger case to Scooters case is part of the conservatives well-scripted whisper defense.  I note you've totally passed on a chance to defend Scooter.  You ignore the fact that his testimony was false, and also you ignore his defense that he merely forgot the truth to material facts in a key case.

                    You are running out of places to hide.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 5:24 pm ET)
                         

                      Easy,

                      Sorry, I did not read this scripted defense. Pass it along as you must be privy to it. Either that or you are making it up.

                      Actually trying to associate my arguments with some script is an old trick to try to diminish the argument by associating it with someone or something you dislike. Very weak. 

                      So jJust because you happen to use the Al Queda, cut and run, radical leftist, communist, terrorist script for your replies in order to undermine our war effort and lead to the eventual defeat of the United States, I understand where you are coming from. ;-)  (See how easy it is?)

                      Take care. It's been a good discussion up to now.  

                       

                      Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (February 22, 2007 8:16 pm ET)
                   

                To attempt to discredit Wilson who had exposed one little cog in the tidal wave of distortion and lies that led up to Iraq. Protecting that wall of deception was important to the administration. THAT is why he attacks Wilson in the only way he could since Wilson was after all right and Bushs claim had long since been debunked. Then it was either LIE or cough up the explanation which would involve the motive that would STILL expose the cascade of lies and deceptions

                Report Abuse
              • Author by IRONY 101 (February 22, 2007 9:16 pm ET)
                   

                "...why would Libby, if he himself is a lawyer and aledgedly a smart one at that, knowingly commit perjury over something like this?" 

                The short answer is basically the same one to the question "why does anyone lie?" Because they think they can get away with it.

                In Libby's particular case he was taken completely by surprise to learn that Patrick Fitgerald had gotten reporters to talk to the FBI and to testify before the grand jury. In previous cases involving reporters protecting sources prosecutors had backed off of forcing the ireporters to testify the way Fitzgerald did... and, you may recall, Judith Miller spent time cooling off in jail. Although reporters customarily refused to divulge sources, even prior to Miller's incarceration Fitzgerald was surprised that some reporters willingly spoke to investigators. When Libby, a lawyer, was first interviewed during the investigation he assumed that, as in the past, reporters were not talking to Fitzgerald's investigators. Bad assumption on Libby's part because what he didn't know when he was interviewed was that some reporters had actually already started talking. What Libby asssumed, as a sharp lawyer, was that he could vaguely answer some questions, claim faulty memory on others and perhaps even lie outright in response to other questions that could implicate him or his boss, Cheney, in matters that he knew could possibly be regarded as criminal or were just politically damaging or embarrassing. Libby figured he could be lesss than forthright with the investigators because no one except a few reporters could refute what he said... and his legal experience told him that reporters in Washington were NOT going to talk, just as they usually always refused. But this time Fitzgerald got both lucky and tough. Some reporters talked voluntarily and one (Miller) got put in jail for refusing. I can only imagine how shocked the sharp lawyer, Libby, was when he learned that reporters were talking. I am sure it must have been a priceless "Oh shiet!" moment. In fact, I believe Libby's grand jury testimony shows that after he found out that reporters had already testified about conversations with him he tried to modify some of his previous answers to investigators... but he had already too much.  Extremely sharp lawyers are sometimes particularly vulnerable because of their huge egos and self-perception of being smarter than everyone else. But Libby was too cute for his own good... and he dug his own grave.

                Also put the entire matter in its proper context... politics at the highest level of government probably represents the epitome of institutional ruthlessness. Lying?  Sheeesh... come on, lying is probably regarded as a virtue in that environment.

                Hopes this helps you understand the world a little better... and how a sharp Washington lawyer could (Omigod!)... actually LIE.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by lkazzi1570 (February 22, 2007 4:02 pm ET)
               

              Wilson, like Kerry is a tan, good looking guy with a full head of hair.  He MUST have been on Kerry's payroll eh?

             So you think Wilson lied?  In his op-ed to the world?  Don't you think it would have been PROVEN to be a lie by now?  Would the Administration not have pur forth all of the resources of the federal govt (which are considerable) to pick apart Wilson's claims?  The best they could come up with was something to the effect of "He said he went to Niger at the request of the VP, but it was his wife that sent him".  With all those geeky lawyers, spinmeisters, and spokesliars, W and Chiney could have done alot better....if, of course, they had any actual material.   

            Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 4:10 pm ET)
                 

              LK,

              Take a look at the 9/11 report. I maybe wrong, but I think that puts to rest questions about Mr. Wilson's embellishments and lies. 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by bingvangorden (February 22, 2007 4:28 pm ET)
                   

                Nope, the 9/11 commission concluded that Wilson only confirmed what the intelligence community already knew. The documents were forgeries.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (February 22, 2007 6:20 pm ET)
                   

                The question is NOT about Wilson and what he said. Whatever Wilson said upset Cheney and Libby enough to warrant to campaign to use any means necessary to discredit Wilson. Any means necessary obviously meant lying under oath!

                Report Abuse
          • Author by bingvangorden (February 22, 2007 4:32 pm ET)
               

            The lenghts some will go to to justify their idiotic point of view never ceases to amaze me. Secret methods? What rendition flights, data mining? Which leak from someone with a conscience within the Bush administration are you referring too? Every thing you cling to to believe Valerie Wilson's outing was insignificant are false. She was an undercover NOC, Wilson never claimed Cheney sent him, etc. etc. Your loyalty to the constitution is suspect.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (February 22, 2007 4:44 pm ET)
                 

              bing,

              Do a google search on "9/11 report" and Joe Wilson. I only looked at the first few of 35,000 but I think you'll see there is more to it than Joe's lie about his wife.

               

              gotta run.  

              Report Abuse
              • Author by bingvangorden (February 22, 2007 5:39 pm ET)
                   

                I actually read the report thanks. I don't need countless opinions from right wing web sites. wilson was no liar, the 9/11 report confirmed it.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (February 22, 2007 8:20 pm ET)
                   

                Not a lie you are uninformed. The 9/11 report only cited the document. What they DIDNT do was investigate WHY it was written. The CIA has SAID PUBLICLY that Mrs Wilsons boss ASKED her to write it.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (February 22, 2007 5:46 pm ET)
               

            WOW, you have kicked your delusions up to a whole new level. You mean the top secret program that Bush himself had mentioned half a dozen times? This lame rightwing talking point was abandoned long ago by all but the most committed koolaid drinkers. Not the FIRST?

            So what does that mean if I rob a bank that was robbed last week I did nothing wrong?

            No he was NOT on Kerrys payroll, he did NOT lie in his article and there is no outrage because he DID NOTHING WRONG except in the rarified world of Bush idolotry. Where is it just horrible to point out the president is distorting AGAIN.

            No YOU are outraged that this administration is being held accountable for ANYTHING. Its ok to lie to grand juries, why not for you its ok to lie to the COUNTRY to take us to war. If George Bush was shown sodomizing a goat live on CNN you would rush in here and lecture us for not praising him on his wonderful support for 4-H. This delusional partisan screed was embarassing.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by AmericanMutt (February 22, 2007 6:01 pm ET)
               

            Sounds like you need an AA meeting AA. Just off the top of my head the story in the HYT you seem to be refering to was only secret to US, if you had gone to Europe before the story you would have been lost if you had tried to transfer any funds without your SWIFT number. It is only here that is was 'secret'. kind of like nixon's 'secret plan' to win in 'Nam, we knew nothing about it but lots of laotions and Cambodians knew all about it as the bombs were dropping around them and their kids.

             it would have been nice if you had had a single truthful statement in that post.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (February 22, 2007 6:14 pm ET)
               

            Anotheramerican, Clinton lied about an affair and was subject to impeachment.

            Libby lied to FBI , Grand Jury, under oath and to Federal prosecutors.

            Now according to the moral, self-righteous Republicans, they didn't go after Clinton because of the affair but because he lied.

            So when lying about an affair between two consenting adults it's wrong but lying about the leaked name of a CIA agent to the Grand Jury, FBI and Federal Prosecutors it's a witch hunt? I suppose it's also a witch hunt to call Bush on the fact that he said "anyone in my administration that is leaking information to the press will be fired"?

            I suppose your point would be do not lie about sex but any national security issues are fair game?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Dee (February 22, 2007 11:44 pm ET)
                 

              The same old double standard exists when it comes to who can outright lie and get away with it. Clinton is still pilloried by the wingnuts about lying about sex and now the same people are crying fowl in defense of Libby.

              One thing that may prevent Bush from granting a pardon is the loss of 5th amendment rights for Libby opening him up to go back to the Grand Jury. He would be forced to talk. The pardon could come about though after the '08 elections and then Libby would still be without his 5th amendment rights concerning this case.

              Toensing and WAPO are just beyond pathetic for these editorials and articles that obviously were an attempt at influencing the jury, Shameless.

              Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (February 23, 2007 3:15 pm ET)
                 

              pearlene,

              Can you show me where it has been proven that Libby lied under oath? Maybe I missed it? Has he been convicted?

              Thanks 

              ps. Clinton lied under oath in his deposition involving Monica Lewinski.  he lost his law license for 5 years and had to pay a 25,000 fine. Clinton also admitted to violating the Arkansas Bar's rule of conduct. 

              I am amazed when women defend this serial sexual predator. Amazed. 

              Report Abuse
    • Author by valentinian (February 22, 2007 6:39 pm ET)
         

      Can't add much to the discussion, other than to note how much I am enjoying the screen grabs on the front page... like there is someone at MMFA who does nothing but go through each video to find the goofiest looking frame and turn it into a jpeg.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by truthseeker77 (February 22, 2007 9:04 pm ET)
         

      Only three Republican senators in their "additional notes" to the report said that Wilson lied. But come on. It's ultra-right-wing Pat Roberts' and his buddies saying it. The bi-partisan conclusions said nothing about Wilson having lied to the committee or to anyone.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by tadowe (February 23, 2007 11:06 am ET)
         

      Truthseeker says, "It's ultra-right-wing Pat Roberts' and his buddies saying it. The bi-partisan conclusions said nothing about Wilson having lied to the committee or to anyone."

      Neither did the committee say that Bush, Cheney, or anyone else lied! What do you expect?

      "The panel found that Wilson's report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts."

      "contrary to Wilson's assertions and even the government's previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address."

      "The report said Plame told committee staffers that she relayed the CIA's request to her husband, saying, "there's this crazy report" about a purported deal for Niger to sell uranium to Iraq. The committee found Wilson had made an earlier trip to Niger in 1999 for the CIA, also at his wife's suggestion. "

      "The report also said Wilson provided misleading information to The Washington Post last June. He said then that he concluded the Niger intelligence was based on documents that had clearly been forged because "the dates were wrong and the names were wrong."

      "Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the 'dates were wrong and the names were wrong' when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports. . ."

      The blind partisanship of the leftist/democrats literally forces you to believe and have faith in a proven liar . . . just a bit too funny . . .

       

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by anotheramerican (February 23, 2007 2:58 pm ET)
           

        Tad,

        I just logged in about 24 hours after my last post. Thanks for supplying the relevant quotes. 

        Thanks everyone for their comments! 

        Report Abuse

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