Fox's Hill on Clinton's "Southern drawl": "[I]f she was attending, say, a GLAAD convention, would she speak with a lisp?"
On the March 6 edition of Fox News Live, while discussing Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's (D-NY) March 4 speech and her participation in a commemorative civil rights march in Selma, Alabama, host E.D. Hill accused Clinton of affecting a "Southern drawl" during her speech and asked pollster Scott Rasmussen: "[W]ould it happen elsewhere, if she was attending, say, a GLAAD [Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation] convention, would she speak with a lisp?" Hill continued: "If she were attending a Hispanic convention, would she speak with a Spanish accent? Or if she were attending an African-American convention, would she start throwing out phrases -- you know 'Homies, here I am'?"
Hill also mocked a portion of Clinton's speech, in which Clinton quoted Rev. James Cleveland's hymn, "I don't feel noways tired." After airing that excerpt of Clinton's speech, Hill stated: "Well, I don't feel noways tired, neither" and asserted that "it did seem sort of strange to hear a Yankee affecting a Southern drawl." Hill did not mention that Clinton was quoting a hymn.
From the March 6 edition of Fox News Live:
HILL: Sen. Hillary Clinton became a New Yorker specifically to run for the Senate. Now, some wonder if she's trying to become a Southerner to run for president after a rather strange speech in Selma, Alabama. Take a listen.
CLINTON [video clip]: "I don't feel noways tired. I come too far from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy. I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me."
HILL: Well, I don't feel noways tired, neither. But it did seem sort of strange to hear a Yankee affecting a Southern drawl. So, does that help her or hurt her by turning off people?
On the phone now: Scott Rasmussen, independent pollster and the president of Rasmussen Reports. Welcome.
[...]
HILL: Well, I know that one of the raps has been that, despite a lot of people who like her, her negatives have always been high. Does this, for those people, simply reinforce it? Because, well, yes, she spent a lot of time in Arkansas -- I have never, ever, heard her speak regularly with a Southern drawl. I do recall when she was down at the Ann Richards memorial in Austin, Texas, all of a sudden she had a drawl again, but this just seems, you know -- as a Southerner, it just seemed odd.
RASMUSSEN: Sure, but you said it. The people that don't like her, this reinforces it. This is another reason to dislike her. This is another bit of evidence saying that she will do anything, she is shameless. She will do whatever it takes to win. And for those people that have the opposite view, that think she is a great leader, they're going to say this is another incident about right-wing conspiracy's blowing all up out of proportion and it means nothing. You know, she was just trying to connect with an audience. And so --
HILL: If she was attending, say, a GLAAD convention, would she speak with a lisp? If she were attending a Hispanic convention, would she speak with a Spanish accent? Or if she were attending an African-American convention, would she start throwing out phrases -- you know, "Homies, here I am"?
RASMUSSEN: Sure.
HILL: I mean -- you know -- is it OK to do the Southern thing, and not OK, then, to do these other things?
Oh wow. Another Troglodyte talking point is born. Will this be the Hillary version of "invented the internet"?
Nasty Nasty. There is indeed a segment of the Republican/conservative party that LOVES bigoted humor. Do ya think it's because they are proud unrepented bigots that enjoy offending people that they consider less then themselves. You should have heard the shtick on Imus this morning. That racist Bernie guy went on and on with the most awful bigoted routine about Blacks. It consisted of steretypes about corn rows and gold teeth. He mocked Mya Angelou and recited a poem in what he considerd "Black" dialect about how we Blacks were so upset that and I quote "That Whitey for too may years have deprived us of our spears" Imus and the gang laughed hysterically. I had to change the channel and I've finally resolved to stop watching Imus all together. He has great guests on his show, but it's not worth me sitting through these kinds of insults while I'm drinking my morning coffee, what a way to start the day. I can't do it anymore, so from now on my house will be forever Imus free.
I'm the same way about Imus. Occasionally he'll have a good guest on, and I love the way he refers to Cheney as a war criminal. However, his little comedy routines are pretty disgusting, and I haven't respected him ever since he had Zell Miller on and all but licked his boots after his shameful tirade against Chris Matthews.
I have major problems with the racial overtones on the show by Bernie. It is why I am amazed that MSNBC keeps this show on.
And Imus isn't the only one.
"He's clean is what what's-his-name said. Joe Biden told us that," Cole said.
"Clean darky," Allred said.
At least this conservative radio host was given a week suspension. But he said he isn't sorry for what he said, says lots about your typical representative of today's republican values.
" Do ya think it's because they are proud unrepented bigots that enjoy offending people that they consider less then themselves. "
Getting a little judgemental, don't you think? There seems to be no lack of bigots on this site who profess to "love everyone equally" unless, of course, you don't agree with every little statement they make, then you suddenly become a bigot of the worst type.
Personally, I think hillary did speak with a lisp when she spoke to gays during an unpublicized speach, recently. And she'll probably speak with a Jewish inflection if she ever speaks to a Jewish audience. She's the biggest fake since the last democratic presidential hopeful. She is a true polotician...she will tell you anything just to get your vote, then do whatever she wants once in office.
"I think hillary did speak with a lisp when she spoke to gays during an unpublicized speach," -Autopsychic
Well isn't that covenant for you. Hey I heard Bush announce he was mentally ill and that Cheny is a pill popper, in an unpublicized speech. There see, I made something up too, and we both don't need to provide sources. Isn't that great!
Back your claims up.
http://www.humanevents.com/rightangle/index.php?p=21224
Need more proof? You make it too easy.
What has made this fake story doubly depressing is that a slew of Hillary haters at the Daily Kos and at MyDD have been gleefully pushing it also. Their comments read as if scripted by the Fox friends or someone from Rush's army. We need a new Democratic online community where Democrat bashing and GOP narratives arent used to attack our own. I remember in 2000 when Bradley supporters called Gore a liar, when Republicans still feared to use that word, but once it was introduced, it never went away. Look what that did, we all got BUSHED!
Some stupid quotes from GORE
"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet"
-CNN on March 9, 1999.
Mary and Joseph were homeless?"Speaking from my own religious tradition in this Christmas season, 2,000 years ago a homeless woman gave birth to a homeless child in a manger because the inn was full."
Mammogram...sonogram...honey graham... At an event in Las Vegas on Monday, 09/1800, Gore declared potential breast cancer victims faced "a long waiting line before they could get a biopsy or, uh, or a uh, another kind of, what am I looking for, a sonogram or...." People in the crowd shouted "mammogram." (Source: Fox News 09/18/00; MSNBC 09/21/00 - The News with Brian Williams)#1. true
#2. true
#3. WTF? you never forget a word like "mammogram?"
Don't see anything ridiculous about any of that. Looks like you fired off a dud.
The deplorable Imus was attacking Senator Clinton about this topic on MSNBC this morning.
Hey Doris,
I had the great misfortune of hearing that this morning along with Bernie's racist routine. I can't watch the show anymore. I'm going to use you like I use the Fox News hounds website. There motto is "We Watch Fox So You Won't Have To". It's too bad because to my great astonishment Imus has A-list serious journalists and politcal commentators on his show; but like said in my earlier post hanging around to see them isn't worht the insulting bigoted humor that one has to sit through. It's not worth mucking through manure to watch Tim Russert or Howard Fineman.
Yeah, it was deplorable. I had it on because I wanted to listen to Frank Rich. I rarely keep it on but do like to listen to some of his guests like Rich and Tom Olophent today and Dodd, Schumer. He has alot of great guests, which amazes me as to why they associate themselves with a racist hatemongering show.
Flipped past it this morning because I can only take about 3 minutes of Olephant's droning, and Imus lets him go about 20.
Besides, you can't trust anybody with a bow tie (Olephant, Carlson, Fahrakan, who else?).
The sheer depth of the media's political discourse is amazing, isn't it? Such insight, such originality, such serious topics. These are truly gods amongst men.
"would she speak with a lisp?" "..."Homies, here I am"?"
Oh, I get it, 'cause gay people all speak with a lisp and African-Americans all use words like "homies". This just days after Coulter uses the F-word slur at a Republican convention. Hardy-Har-Har.
Wow, when Republicans find themselves surrounded on all sides by failed policies and increasing public disgust, they sure start spouting bigotry everywhere in less disguised ways than usual, like some sort of malfunctioning robot.
Y'all just cannot stand for anyone to question the actions of your liberal heroes can you? I said in another article on this topic, that I considered Hillary faked (don't give me this "she lived in Arkansas for 17 years nonsense as that was a horrible accent) Southern accent a non-issue. However, some people may want to raise the question as to whether she is going to adopt a faked accent for every group to whom she speaks that is associated with a stereotyped accent. As a Southern, I am hardly offended at her speech, but are other Southerners of the same opinion? I don't know. All I know, is that I think some of y'all are wound way too tight.
Well, Southerners haven't been offended by Puddinhead George's phony cowboy schtick, or Fred Thompson driving around in a pickup truck pretending to be a "good ol' boy". They'll hate Hillary because Rush Limbaugh and their preachers tell them to...her accent or lack thereof is, frankly, much too subtle to penetrate.
I think you're missing the point -- its not a question of defending HC's use of a southern drawl -- personally, I thought it sounded pretty weird, but then I'm a Gore man. The issue is Fox's promoting of bigoted stereotypes, suggesting that to connect with gay people (of which I'm one) she would then have to adopt a lisp, or use the word "homie" in order to connect with African-Americans.
"Promoting bigoted stereotypes?" Give me a break. How is asking if Hillary is going to use these stereotypical accents with each "group" translate into into promotion of bigoted stereotypes?
Grayson,
By insinuating that if Hillary spoke to GLAAD, she would use a lisp, is promoting a sterotype. In other words, gays speak with lisps - if that isn't a ridiculous and unfounded stereotype, then I don't know what is.
So by this logic - the use of an accent that is associated with an audience - do all Southerners sound like Hillary's attempt? Was Hillary or the Fox guest making this implication. Because you seem to be suggesting the notion that this person is promoting the idea that all gay people speak with a lisp? Do you think this person was really under the impression that all black people throw "homey" out once a day? I think this is a case of a "selective interpretation."
See Thurberdog's response below, it is well said.
Reality check... a very large percentage of effeminate gay men speak with a lisp. Rednecks are known to speak with a drawl, Jews have been heard to speak in rising nasal tones, and have you heard... some blacks speak in something called ebonics!
Sheeze... yet another example of MMFA whining about the small stuff and denying reality. People are dying, the world is frying, and you have time to bicker about widely known accurate stereotypes?
And you have the time to come on this website and point out the obvious? Why aren't you out there stopping wars and ending global warming?
One thing at a time. We're just now getting the ozone hole fixed (Gore said so on Leno last night) due to international cooperation.
Gore wasn't on Leno last night, and the ozone hole is growing.
Why even bother making chit up?
Before making yourself look stupid, perhaps you could just correct me, after you discover it was Conan instead of Leno. But I know you need your sleep.
Go ahead and call your High Priest names--he said what he said.
Well, that's one way of dealing with making a mistake in public. Another would be, whoops, I typed Leno when I meant Conan.
I go to scientists for information about the atmosphere, not ex-politicians. Gore has done great things for public awareness of the problem of climate change, but no serious person goes, hey Al Gore said something about the ozone hole, so I'm not going to check it out for myself.
Do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Works for me.
Ha Ha Valentinian, you sure looked stoopid pointing out that Lame-O was wrong when he was wrong.You should have gotten some sleep before being right and... what the?
Lefthanded,
Here's a clue. Your annointed one was proclaiming that the ozone hole is now not a problem because the international community got together to address it. Val pointed out that IT'S A WORSE PROBLEM NOW!
Keep watching The View, and he'll probably say it there also.
If that had been the commentators intent -- that is, to suggest that Clinton was using stereotypes to communicate to an audience and how offensive that was -- I would have been right there with here. This was not, however, her point. Her point was whether Clinton was adjusting her speech and mannerisms to an audience simply to seem more LIKE them, and questioning whether that was disingenuous. As an example she was thereby suggesting that to talk to a gay audience, and to make them feel like she was one of them and speak in a way that would transform herself into a facsimile of them, she would of course need to adopt "a lisp". That's a stereotype of gays and just the kind of bigoted reference one expects from Fox News.
Sounds more like you determining what you want to hear from Fox so you can ignore the points made. As part of this, you interpret things in a manner that leads you to believe that the leading cable news outlet would promote gay and black stereotypes. That does not even make logical sense.
Grayson,
Fox plays and reports to their base viewers, who can deny that? They have a huge following among a certain segment and they know exactly who they are and how they align politically.......comments like this one from Hill are perfectly acceptable to that base. It is promoting a stereotype and they know it.
Actually as far as lisping, I am gay. I do not lisp. My husband does not lisp, none of my friends lisp.
(although in all honesty I did lisp when I was 7 years old, but that was due to the dental issues).
I have maybe heard one or two gay men who lisp. In fact the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are performers, who use it as part of their stage persona. (these in most part are older gay men who grew up in a culture that taught that gay men lisp).
Maybe those of you claiming that gay men lisp or that a large percentage do, should get to know some real life gay men before you paint us with stereotypes.
Everyone at Fox News knows that f#ggots talk with a lisp. F*ggots are wuss's and girlie men so of course they speak with a lisp. Don't you watch Hannity & Colmes and John Gibson.
Actually, we got that from the other networks BEFORE Fox existed.
So just what is your take on Bush pretending to be a ranch owning cowboy? Or is it your assumption that where you live today is now what you are, ergo Bush is now a southerner and Clinton is now a northerner?
Funny, even though I have lived in texas most of my life, I still talk with a Michigan accent and still consider it my home.
E.D. Hill's remarks are a combination of Hillary-Bashing & thumbing her nose at political correctness.
They also offend certain groups, but I get the idea that E.D either doesn't know or doesn't care.
Hey, thurberdog
as a fellow "lisper" let me welcome you to MMFA.
But on a different topic. The whole Hillary pandering thing, is just a continuation of the same tired right wing tactic. You make little comments here and there, usually in opinion pieces or when "reporting" a real news piece. You build it and build it, eventually you have individuals or "experts" come forward to offer evidence for your claim or to analyze how they sit in a chair (bill O'Really?). Pretty soon, the media is busy repeating your claims. And many in the public believe it.
Kerry: flip/floping/unpatriotic
Gore: boring/unfunny/
Hillary: panderer/evil/out for power
By all means, question away. Just don't keep repeating the same old garbage after you've been provided the answer.
Hillary was quoting James Cleveland's great freedom hymn and personifying the quote by adopting the accent. I don't know how much clearer it can be made for you.
Maybe all y'all should go back for a remedial comprehension class?
As I said, her use of the Southern accent was a non-issue if you ask me. However, while I do not know how Mr. Cleveland sounded accent-wise when he spoke, I am willing to bet it was nothing like Hillary's comical try.
So your original post should have just said "Hillary did a bad southern accent".
True?
You're right Grayson I need to lighten up. When I hear a right wing White comedien reduce the plight of AAs and civil rights protest to a protest about beeing denied our SPEARS I really should be able to appreciate the humor in that. It's real funny.
I know this is not exactly on topic, but the comedian referance reminded of this article.
http://worlddefensereview.com/esman030607.shtml
Bigotry. Hate. Xenophobia.
Your personal motto? Nice.
Grayson, you can't stand to see this site exist and be FAR more popular than your site, can you? I think you need to lighten up. You're wound way too tight.
I have no problem with this site existing. I fully support freedom of expression even from the left. I just think people needs to take much of the commentary with a grain of salt.
Hill multiple options to illustrate her point, yet she made a decision to go straight to some of the worst possible stereotypes. All of those black folks at the NAACP saying Homie? They must all be gangsters. What about GLAAD? Everyone there must be a lisping flaming queen... Ha ha we know how much fun it is to mock fa$s.
Instead of asking me to lighten up, why aren't you asking yourself why she chose negative stereotypes in her examples in the first place?
Perhaps because she says she is a Southerner and that it was "weird" hearing Hillary talk like that. Then, if you read her very last quote, there is some implication, that she may have the perspective of "Why is it is ok to use a stereotype of Southerners when using a stereotype of these other groups would not be acceptable?" While I, as a Southerner was not offended, I think it would be a fair question in her mind.
Unless, of course, one knew that she was quoting a southerner and was personifying the quote by attempting a southern accent. Then one wouldn't have that question, now would one?
"Why is it is ok to use a stereotype of Southerners when using a stereotype of these other groups would not be acceptable?" While I, as a Southerner was not offended, I think it would be a fair question in her mind.
- [link to gtalum96.home.mindspring.com] color="#0052a3">GraysonBuzz / Tuesday March 6, 2007 02:51:29 PM EST
I agree. Hillary Clinton should not have promoted the stereotype that southerners speak with a southern accent.
lol too funny and right on L!
Do gay black southernerns have a drawl and lisp when saying homie?
Who says she's liberal? She wears the conservative uniform.
And of course these same Faux News people completely ignore when Yankee George W. Bush turns on his "Texan" drawl.
He needs to turn it off. It's an embarrasment for those of us from the South and Texas.
I have NEVER heard President Bush speak in such an obviously faked accent. If you can point out an instance, go for it. Not the phrase "obviously faked."
Everytime he opens his mouth, his accent is "fake". He didn't grow up in Texas, he grew up in CT and went to school at Yale, spending his summers in Maine. He adopted his accent when he moved back to Texas. Everytime the man opens his mouth, he's speaking in a fake accent.
Can you point me to an example that is obviously as faked as Hillary's?
not off the bat, but I can point you to a picture of him picking his nose in public:
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/bushvideos/v/bushnosepick.htm
Bush fakes the Cahtah accent when he says nookya.
What's wrong with that?
When he's giving an important speech George Bush tries to enunciate his words to sound like a smart person... and on those occasions he even speaks in full sentences. That's pretty phony, huh?
Love your phraseology ... "sound like." When he wants to sound like a stupid person, of course, he looks away from the cue card and ad libs in his normal thought process.
Hm, pretty reasonable observation. Let's not forget the "plantation" she made regarding the GOP a while back. This was just a case of Clinton being a politician kinda like Bill's "I feel your pain" or Kennedy speaking in spanish. Again, way to go Hill, nice observation.
Plantation remark?
And your point is?
The remark was made to a predominantly black audience in ?harlem. the audience did not take it as a racial slur, but a remark targeted towards the Republican Party who were in control of congress at the time.
How many times does this have to be repeated?
My point is she was pandering then and she played to the audience even more last weekend. Not to say repubs. don't do similar things but pointing out that someone is pandering to a crowd and questioning whether she might do it again is a reasonable point.
Ok, let's review:
Liberals pander to their audience by speaking with a southern accent.
Conservative pander to thier audience by calling other people f*ggot.
I think I understand how it works now.
Who pandered to conservatives "by using f*****"? (I know of who you are referring. However, after see a short bit of the Zahn show on the Clinton News Network last night focusing on the word more than the commentary that was being made, I just curious as to what the left wing answer would be to the above."
F*ggot's not a bad word, it's just a schoolyard taunt. It's not even offensive to gay people. That's what Fox News has been telling me. I mean I haven't seen a single actual gay person on the Fair & Balanced network to tell me anything other than that so what am I to assume? Why so defensive?
because comparing one of the dems leading candidates pandering to a NON-CANDIDATE is applea to oranges and a non-issue
because comparing one of the dems leading candidates pandering to a NON-CANDIDATE is applea to oranges and a non-issue
Just what are you babbling about?
The commentary which I think Coulter was touching on (and which I think is valid) was this notion that if you use that word in public (and I do not use that word as I do not engage in name calling, especially with derogatory terms) you have to go into "rehab." To think she was seriously implying this of John Edwards is a stretch I think. I will admit, she could have chosen a better method of making her comment.
The commentary which I think Coulter was touching on (and which I think is valid) was this notion that if you use that word in public (and I do not use that word as I do not engage in name calling, especially with derogatory terms) you have to go into "rehab."
Yeah, smearing John Edwards was just a last-minute addition there. What kind of PC-crazy world is it when you can't use homophobic epithets in everyday speech?
Except the only place anyone ever entered rehab for using slurs is in right-wingers' fantasies.
Yeah, how did the whole "rehab" meme get started?
OK, you now win the twit award. It is an EXTREMELY offensive word to me. We can say that to each other but you get to shut up, 'k?
Holy crap! A CANDIDATE called someone a f----t, no wait, it was Ann Coultier, ie. NOT a repub. presidential candidate. NIce try though (apples to oranges)
What does it matter if someone is a candidate or not? Both Coulter and Clinton are spokespeople and leaders for their political beliefs.
Liberals pander to their audience by speaking with a southern accent.
Conservative pander to thier audience by calling other people f*ggot.
You might be onto something if the RNC was trying to get the gay vote. Anne was not. She was clearly pandering to the already Conservative audience. You guys win in that stance. We will concede the black vote, gay vote, the tranny vote, and any other kind of out of the norm sex vote. OK? The Cons will continue to pander for the rich vote, the business owner vote, and every other person who wants to make a million bucks vote. Hillary's accent was still fake.
Don't forget the Theocrat vote, the warmonger vote, the big polluters vote and the Earth-is-only-six-thousand-years-old vote.
Thanks for the numbers. And you were missing the religious maniac vote. They do add up. I love politics.
"Thanks for the numbers. And you were missing the religious maniac vote. They do add up. - dave / Tuesday March 6, 2007 04:48:59 PM EST"
Yes. Unfortunately they do, and you're welcome. I do think I more-or-less covered the religious maniac vote by mentioning the Theocrats and the YECs, but obviously there are a few religious maniacs (like ID proponents) who fall out of those two sub-sets. Thanks for setting me straight.
Chris, let's be honest.
The right will never get the black vote, the gay vote, etc. They have a base they have to pander to. Same as the left. That's the way the game is played. Both sides are equally dishonest in getting those votes. The point was Hillary was wrong in trying to pull off a fake southern accent. No problem. Bush sang a spanish National anthem. Who cares. The big picture is I want a Conservative President to win so I can continue to get tax breaks. Hillary is not the one to do it for me.
Dave: Yes, I suspect that Hillary's Arkansas accent "thickened" when she spoke with a Southern audience. You are right that candidates of both parties do it and I am too old to be naive about how most politicians operate. My problem stemmed from E.D. Hill's automatic selection of black and gay stereotypes to make her point, and because I am already seeing a press redux of Election 2000 wherein every comment made by Gore was spun to show how "phony" he was, while Bush was generally promoted as a man of profound character and conviction. I am not a particular fan of Hillary Clinton, but there is a large segment of the media that will paint her every utterance as that of a calculating shrew.
I appreciate your candor about why you support Bush. Personally I don't find the microscopic tax cuts I've received under Bush a fair trade for the mountains of debt he's piled up, nor for the damage he has done to the Constitution or America's reputation abroad, but I guess we all have our priorities. I will most likely vote for the Democratic candidate in the next election because, as imperfect a vehicle it may be, the liberal side of the Democratic party holds a more expansive view of human liberty, has a better record on the environment, and panders slightly less so to religious fanaticism.
Chris, don't forget the "The Earth is Untold Millions of Years Old, but Let's Devise a Theory of Global Warming Based on 6,000 Years" vote.
Leftopians get THAT "6,000 years" vote. It's a big one.
Actually, based on chemistry, quantum mechanics, and the available historical data, either directly observed or by proxy (ice cores and the like). What is your theory based on?
Ancient scribblings.
Don't remember ancient scribblings in Probability and Statistics. But come to think of it, it would look like heiroglyphs to you.
Pick up a book on the topic sometime, actually go through it (better yet, get a university course in it, then get back to me). You WILL need a good prof to make sense out of the formulae.
And you will add a much-needed dimension to your ruminations on AGW.
Chris, Its not that I support Bush. I support the party. The Dems just have nothing to benefit my situation. I have more money than myself or my wife could spend in a lifetime. I'm lucky, and I know it. I wish to keep as much of it as I can. The Dems have some nice ideas about health care, education, minimum wage, etc. But in the end, it will come out of my pocket.
I vote R because it benefits me and my family to hold onto what's mine.
"I have more money than myself or my wife could spend in a lifetime. I'm lucky, and I know it. I wish to keep as much of it as I can. The Dems have some nice ideas about health care, education, minimum wage, etc. But in the end, it will come out of my pocket. I vote R because it benefits me and my family to hold onto what's mine.
By Dave.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gee Dave,
I know which segment of the Republican Party base you represent. Boy you're a selfish guy.
I do not believe it is selfishness....self preservation and self interest, maybe. To each his own. What's your point? This is the American dream, Lynn. Hanging onto it is proving to be the hardest part.
Just a thought: your wealth will be more secure in a society where prosperity is more equally spread. Every-man-for-himself is not the American Dream.
Dave, have you seen the armor truck following the casket?
Dave's probably stipulated in his will that the money be buried with the last spouse that buys the farm. Sad isn't it. Can you imagine having 12 ham sandwiches and the means to get as many ham sandwiches as you desire and a man comes up to you that hasn't eaten in two weeks and you look at him and say gee that's so sad but I can't give you one of my sandwiches because they're mine and I plan on keeping ALL of them.
In the Workers' Paradise, it's more like this: Man comes up to you, says he hasn't eaten for a couple days ( The People's Trucking Co. didn't get there with the baloney sandwiches--they're a little late, but hey--at least they're not trying to make a profit), so could you split your baloney sandwich with him? Everybody's happy, 'cause nobody has more than the next guy.
Win-win.
Ok Lynn. I'll play along, and I thank you for your concern about my will. You are comparing two seperate things. Charitable donations - tax deductable ones, of course, versus raising my already high taxes. Both benefit the poor somewhat, but neither one actually eliminates poverty. With my money, I can give my ham sandwiches to whomever I wish. That's my option. I do not have that same option if the party in charge raises my taxes under the assumption of helping the poor. I'm told to "give"under penalty of arrest. In essence, that man does not ask for a sandwich, he takes it from me. And if he doesn't get out of my driveway, I'll have him arrested.
Dave,
Thanks for wanting to keep your money out of the hands of the Government Class, who like us to think it is going to "the little people". The Bureaucracy does so much damage with the money they get, it is your full-time duty to keep it out of their hands--don't ever forget that.
If the Leftopians got their way tomorrow, this country would resemble Tanzania and Cuba, models of the Workers' Paradise they espouse. But by gosh, at least everybody's the same there--they love that.
Oh yeah, you've got your finger on the pulse of us "leftopian" Americans, that's exactly what we want. You've been reading too many wing nut publications.
Actually, got it all from you social engineers on this site. I'm assuming you call yourselves a representative sample.
No?
No. There is nothing "representative" about the people who show up on a particular blog to comment. Of the (wild guess) 20 or so people who post regularly, I don't have a sense that there is much uniformity of thought.
Also, you have nowehere near enough of a sample to know what people's individual views are. That's assuming you read what people write with comprehension (BIG assumption), rather than pigeonholing their opinions into your preconceived notions of liberal: somewhere to the left of Kim Jong Il.
Val,
I stand corrected as you stated, based on an insufficient sample of a huge population.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Good for you.
"You might be onto something if the RNC was trying to get the gay vote. Anne was not. She was clearly pandering to the already Conservative audience. You guys win in that stance. We will concede the black vote, gay vote, the tranny vote, and any other kind of out of the norm sex vote. OK?" --Dave
You are forgetting something. Suburban voters are really put off by anti-gay (and anti-black) comments. Bush was at least shrewd enough to reach out to those voters if not to get their vote, but to apparently cater to influential suburban voters (who aren't black or gay usually).
RJC - you are too funny today....
Thanks I just shot coke out of my nose and now it's burning. (diet coke)
Diet coke it the most fattening drink there is.
For some strange reason I crave the chemical compounds in diet coke and cannot stand the taste of the original.
Maybe it's time to switch to water.
So because her audience is black, it is ok to imply that conservatives in Congress are slave and plantation owners? Yeah...how well would that fly if a conservative said it! (As usual my response - non-issue because 1.) my skin is not that thin and 2.) the concept of freedom of speech.)
She didn't "imply that conservatives in Congress are plantation owners," she said that the House had been run like a plantation, which is certainly a debatable position. I don't really get your point.
Worrierking, it's a new day. Weinerocks seems to be on a 24 hour knowledge cycle.I've seen several of its talking points debunked one day, and it posts the identical BS the next.
I've seen several of its talking points debunked one day, and it posts the identical BS the next. - Huningtonbeachidiot
You mean like you saying Karl Rove had his own tv show and saying that it's Iraq? That's a pretty easy statement to debunk (already did it on a different blog). Listen, I understand that you and Neondesert can't swim with the big boys so you just resort to sophmoric insults and fail to debate but please don't waste the time of people who actually have the capability to think. Take you little brother and go back to the kiddie pool.
I never said he had his own TV show, so if you debunked that, congrats. Please play again, Big Boy.
Really
I think
Karl Rove does have his own show.
Dammit!
When you say "swim with the big boys", you're not referring to that time in Fiji, nude, with Ginsberg, are you?
Oh, wow, people have done things when they were young they wouldn't do after they've matured...what a news flash! I guess we should not expect Al Franken to come out and say he hates homosexuals or Ted kennedy to take a nice drive into a lake and (not) leave someone to die. People grow up, mature (unless they're libs) and sometimes change their views.
You're right, Weinerpebbles. Who among us hasn't wanted to put a camera up the butt of a renown poet.
I mean, am I the only one, other than Savage who has this fantasy/
Not a TV show.
You didn't get it, you read it wrong, but I'll give you this; Karl Rove does not actually, literally have a show, on television, called "Iraq".So I guess that means you've debunked, on a very concrete literal level, something close to what I said figuratively.You are brilliant, and Michael Weiner is too.
Maybe you should have an adult help you when you post here.
Idiot, we were talking about lib bias in media and I said "what would happen if Karl Rove had his own show" and you responded with the above comment. Trying to spin it's been proven that you're just spewing rhetoric is no defence. And what about the collaborators of rove's suposed "program", the 98% of dems who ok'd the war?
"And what about the collaborators of rove's suposed "program", the 98% of dems who ok'd the war?"
How did you come up with 98 percent?
Loonz, if you're expecting laughingstock to come up with a real source for his figures, you're very optimistic. It will probably misread your question anyway and respond to something else. Weinerrocks is sort of the Emily Litella of MMFA.
Except it never gets to the "never mind!" moment.
I thought he was putting in the numbers wrong on his calculator. I was going to go through the steps with him on how to use a calculator.
"Trying to spin it's been proven that you're just spewing rhetoric is no defence." (weenerocks the laughingstock)
Have an adult help you re-write this sentence.
Everybody who supported this war should be held accountable, to different degrees depending on whether they were basing their actions on bad information, or if they were personally involved in deliberately creating that bad information.
As in bombing Yugoslavia because of 225,000 to be found in mass graves?
Man, you must have all day to make chit up! Or do you just post things at random?
...the usual deflection when MBS (mass burial sites--Clinton's reason for bombing the dog out of Yugoslavia) is brought up. You have an entire political cause built on "no WMD's in Iraq", but you can't address the issue of no MBS in the former Yugoslavia.
Oh, and Doughboy said the troops would be home by Christmas--remember that? Didn't think so.
I was alive back then, and what I remember as the proximate cause of the NATO bombing was the ethnic cleansing of the Kosovar Albanians, not "mass burial sites."
Find some news link, anything that supports what you're saying.
Actaully, NATO made it all up. The refugees weren't being massacred and there were no mass graves. Never thought I'd see NATO commit a war crime to help a terrorist seperatist group, but they did. They lied their arses off the entire time. As soon as we helped the KLA to Kosovo, they went and attacked Macedonia! We're still stuck in Kosovo. It's legally still part of Serbia and if NATO leaves, a war will break out again.
The worst part of it all was that right before NATO got involved, Milosevich had offered Rugova greater autonomy for Kosovo and reduced the KLA to cross-border raiding. It was actually almost over. NATO jumped in and made a mess of it.
Leatherhelmet, don't think it was Clinton that led in the Kosovo operation. That was Brussels, they called the shots and pulled the triggers, Clinton just gave them US forces on loan and let Brussels handle all the details. You could tell he wasn't even interested in it.
That should be Lemoc, excuse me.
Thank you for addressing the issue, Redking, and tellin' it like it is. It WAS a Nato operation; Clinton committed us based on information HE had, and it turned out wrong. I pointed to Clinton just to get a response here.
As usual, Uncle provided the lion's share of the push, and suffers the consequences.
Thank you again for your clear synopsis of that important chapter.
Clitler committed war crimes. He targeted civilians, according to the liberal Human Rights Watch. NATO made up the mass graves. The fact is that the Albanians started it all by murdering Serbian police.
"Clitler?"
You are so busted, HBL. Weinerrocks has debunked your claim that Karl Rove has his own TV show and that it is Iraq. That is not true. Karl Rove does not in fact have a TV show.
Nice work, Weinerrocks.
I'm devastated. Maybe I'm not ready to swim with the big boys.;o(
Don't feel bad. I hear Ginsberg pees in the pool anyway.
Just be careful - don't swim with Karl, either - unless he is just returned from his holiday in the Dominican Republic, and you are certain that he didn't smuggle in a fresh supply of viagra!
(Sorry, I know you were only incidentally involved in that discussion, but still couldn't resist!)
Don't worry, HBL. I'm sure Weiner and Weinerrocks will be happy for you to frolic with them in their shallow end.
Rusty, off-topic, but who was that other poster who used to come here and "debunk" things it had read completely wrong? I know you dealt with it, it linked to its website and I recall you having a laugh at the technically crappy layout (overlapping text and pictures, etc.)
They're some of my favorites here, the Emily Litellas.You can almost picture them hitting "post", then sitting back with their arms folded across their chest, a Hannity-esque smirk on their face, having just debunked a product of their own lack of reading comprehension and metaphorical thinking.
Too bad as soon as they start their posts with "idiot", you know they're about to cut & run.On the plus side, tomorrow's a brand new day.One blackout away from more fun.
I think you're referring to Shoes89. He/she/it still posts here. You know - "A weak post by MMFA, IMHO. Just my two cents." Too expensive at half the price.
That's the one, Thanks Rusty.
touché.
Maybe I can throw some apples, too.
For someone who tried to raise the level of discussion, you certainly hit a new low: Go back to the kiddie pool?
I can't imagine why you're having such a hard time with this. It's almost a non-issue, but to point out the stupidly obvious: Candidates pander. Wow, what a freaking concept.
As a Southerner, who can drop to a Midwestern and Northern accent whenever I feel like it and an Irish accent when I'm drunk (go figure), accents are just tools to help get your point across.
Monkey, I'm Northeast Italian-American living in California, and I usually start doing a Scots accent when I'm drunk (unless I'm drinking Scotch, in which case I just slobber).
I lived in Hawai'i for 12 years, and I definitely changed my rhythms when talking to locals, as did every white guy except the assholes. It's not pandering - talking standard English in that context would actually be received as very rude and snobbish, kind of like talking critical theory at a NASCAR event.
People who pay attention change their communication styles subtly to connect to the people they are with. Successful people do it very well.
That's what I appreciate about the British and Aussies. Wherever they are, they try to be polite enough to sound like the rest of us.
Yes Val I agree.
I have found that fairly intelligent people who live in "accented" (i.e. non-Lower Peninsula Michigan accent :) areas for even a very short time, can adapt quickly back and forth. It may not be 100% accurate or even 50%.
Pot, meet kettle...
Savage,Bush often addressed Hispanic audiences in Spanish when he was campaigning. Hiliary Clinton called herself reciting in dialect the words of an old Negro Spiritual. Old Negro Spirituals are often in dialect, I don’t think that’s too big of a surprise or maybe it is. Langston Hughes was a talented Black writer/poet who became famous during the Harlem Renaissance. The educated Huges wrote many poems in the dialect of Southern uneducated Blacks. He didn’t do this to mock them and most Blacks didn’t speak like the characters in his poems even during the time that he wrote them. These poems were very profound and the characters in the poems were very wise. Using dialect was done to illustrate that being educated and being wise are not synonymous. When we recited Langston Huges’ poems in school we had to recite the poems as written IN DIALECT. Did Hiliary try too hard Sunday? She probably did but as I said in an earlier post, ALL politicians attempt to connect with their audiences and some can pull it off easier than others.
Not to say repubs. don't do similar - Me (EARLIER POST)
Yeah...I pretty much ALREADY pointed out that both sides pander but thanks for paying attention! My point is that there's nothing wrong with pointing out that a politician panders and might do it again
PS.
She was not mocking Southerners or attempting to speak "Black". She was reciting a line from a much beloved Negro Spirtual. It would have been the same thing if she had recited the words to I know I've Been Changed "The Angels in Heaven Done sign My Name" This doesn't reflect a Southern dialect. This is the broken English spoken by slaves. She wasn't attempting to affect a Southern accent nor modern Black speech because I know noone who speaks like this.
SUCH INSIGHT! I'm well, aware of what she was quoting, though she played it up quite a bit. Do you argue that this wasn't pandering? Pointing out that she was "playing to the crowd" and might do it again is a true statement.
It's been sweet? Bye bye.
Gay thing aside, it seems sort of strange that she felt the African American thing needed to be said since Senator Clinton was speaking to a black crowd when the offensive feigning originally occured. I mean, there are so many other groups one can offend--each with their own obvious stereotypical ways. No need to double up on the African Americans.
And if Hillary was being interviewed on FAUX news would she pepper her answers with slurs and gay "jokes?"
And if Hillary was being interviewed on FAUX news would she pepper her answers with slurs and gay "jokes?"- ysbaddaden20035928
While speaking veeeerrry slowly ..
When bits and pieces of her other comments were being played on other shows, I didn't detect any dialect other than her midwestern blend. Her audience reaction (live audience) would suggest she was being well-received for her earnest rendition of a popular piece n the sense she likely perceived it probably had been written. I'm still not so sure I hear a "southern" accent. It is interesting to me, though: when I lived in the South as a youngster, I was viewed as a damn yankee, and when I lived in Ohio or Chicago or Southern California, I was a redneck. When I was in the military as a grown up my accent tended to adapt very quickly to that of the environment in which I lived. Seventeen years can make a difference in how one speaks in different environments, and it should not be surprising that it would show up in a moment of theater.
Though I guess the real thread of this piece is the snideness of the fairly unbalanced reporting in re lisping, but what else can one expect of faux?
I wonder, do wingnuts like kooky Hill not realize what racists they are? Are they that sotted by kool-aid that they forget that most Americans do not think like trolls? And if all gays speak with lisps, do all wingnut mouthpieces speak like prostitutes? After all, everyone knows they are whores.
Good old E.D. Hall, she's
Truly Wingnutty And Trashy
I think they do realize it, and they resent the fact that political correctness has forced them to suppress it over the years. Part of the driving force behind the "conservative movement" is a longing for a return to the good ol' days...when corporations had no limitations, there was no welfare state and people of color knew their place.
"conservative movement" is a longing for a return to the good ol' days...when corporations had no limitations, there was no welfare state and people of color knew their place.
You seem to have a very warped view of the world. If you really believe that, you need to expand you circle of people with whom you come in contact.
If you don't think there are many conservatives who feel that way, then you're the one who needs to get out more. I know several people who feel that way, and they've all got those ridiculous "W" stickers on their SUVs. Some of them are actually related to me, unfortunately.
I will concede this...I would like to see the welfare state in a very different situation where it actually helps people rather than entraps them. However, you seem to know a lot of prejudiced people. I know one and....*drum roll*....he is no fan of Dubya and AFAIK is a Democrat.
I think the operative word is "conservative", whether Democrat or Republican. The Democratic party still has its share of bigots...half the Democrats in Tennessee voted for the Gay Marriage Bigotry Amendment in the last election.
Ah yes....anyone who believes in and supports traditional values is automatically a....bigot. Why the incessant need to name call and label? Where is the legendary liberal "tolerance?" Or does that only extend to things that those on the left agree with?
Sorry, I have no tolerance for bigotry and ignorance. Denying gays the right to marry does NOTHING to preserve or protect heterosexual marriag. I defy anyone to demonstrate how it does.
They think that if you allow gay people to get marry everyone will turn gay thereby destroying not only heterosexual marriage but the human race (someone actually told me this).
Somebody actually told you that....therefore, that's what they ALL think.
The level of Leftopian prejudice exhibited on this site is something to see--something you are proud of, I'm sure.
ok, how about telling everyone how YOU feel?
Ah yes....anyone who believes in and supports traditional values is automatically a....bigot.
No, anyone who seeks to enshrine bigotry into law is automatically a bigot.
I agree Rusty. For so many bigotry is a TRADITION and it's been a part of their values package for a long time.
"...no limitations on corporations..."
I musta missed that period when one corporation owned the world.
Do you have even the slightest idea of the nonsense you are drooling? For $73, or $120, or $62, depending on the state, you can walk in, check the registry for name availability, call your corp. the I WANNA OWN THE WORLD CORPORATION, or anything else you choose.
Then it's just a matter of time 'til you're rich. It's easy.
Try it. You won't like it.
In fact, there have been many posters on this site who have open disdain for the welfare state, and think that the "free market" has the solution to every problem. They can't be as open about their racism because they know they'll get bounced from the site by the moderator.
Oh no! The "free market!" And this is inferior to what...the stifling thumb of government regulation?
The free market is a good thing, but it can't solve everything. Government has a role, despite what Rush Limbaugh tells you.
When do you hear the right advocating an anarchist state with virtually no government? There is a huge difference between limited government and no goverment.
Well, we can agree on that. Finding the happy medium is the challenge.
When do you hear the right advocating an anarchist state with virtually no government? - GraysonBuzz">[link to gtalum96.home.mindspring.com] / Tuesday March 6, 2007
"I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." -- Grover Norquist
The prominence of hatred and mockery of minorities by the MSM never fails to amaze or disappoint me.
So Ann Coulter's comments at CPAC wasn't enough for this troglodyte crowd?
Yet another blonde airhead Conservative spokesperson uses yet another gay slur in an attempt to bash a Democratic Presidential candidate.
Soon, this sort of thing won't even be newsworthy anymore!
At the risk of sounding sexist, have you noticed how many attractive women have been recruited by the Right Wing Lie machine? Do they serve the same purpose as those pretty girls who give sidelines commentary at NFL games? Could it be that their target audience is too busy imagining them naked to pay much attention to the crap coming out of their mouths?
Just wondering.
Imagining Ann Coulter naked would be just enough for me to start spewing stuff out of MY mouth...
Yet another conspiracy in the Vast Universe of Rightwing Conspiracy.
I don't think it's sexist to ponder the question at all Nerzog. The seeming over-representation of female hard core right wingers, particularly those whose appearance fits certain stereotypes of sexual iconography (tall blondes and also reaching into petite Asian women) is far too difficult to miss.
Why would they be used? So that the overwhelmingly white male audience for the message can say to themselves "See, even WOMEN agree with me!" - and it will be a woman they would, presumably, want in a sexual manner. There's isn't much to soothe in a "feminazi hater's" ego if the woman so "agreeing" with him isn't a woman he would imagine himself pairing with. Much of his misogyny is borne of rejection he's faced in the past or in sexual insecurity.
Black rightwing pundits, willing to be as rabid as the likes of Coulter or Malkin, serve a similar purpose regardless of their gender. They serve to portray an agreement with the typical consumer of the ideology.
After all, if a black pundit or a female pundit agrees with him, he can't POSSIBLY be "racist" or "sexist" as he is so frequently accused of being.
If one had no convictions whatsoever and had merely wanted to become wealthy and famous - with no concern about a career in 20 years - then the path to such riches was WIDE open as a minority or female rabid rightwing pundit ten years ago. They needed the faces in order to diminish the appearance of bigotry in their message.
Very insightful...I think you've nailed it.
Along with Fox silenced, don't forget to get good-lookin' babes outlawed, too. Then at least summa this stuff can't happen.
Careful, Lemoc. You got up to two whole sentences on that last one. If you try and make them any longer, you may actually have to do some original thought.
Oh Yeah, Val? Like the original thought of having sex with interns and bombing Bosnian mass graves while selling Arkansas real estate and talking in a fake southern accent?
(thought I'd fill in)
Ya got all the way up to three there, yourself. That's gifting you the first one, though--not a complete sentence.
Oh, and HawthorneHefty, carry on w/that "filling in"--that's yo' thang--fillin' in. And, another good deflection on the No Mass Graves.
HawthornHefty!? Good one! you showed him/her!
Ouch! Lame-oc is good. See, Hawthorne is another town in my state that starts with "H", and Hefty rhymes with lefty, not to mention the alliteration.
I didn't understand the "filling in thang" part, and the other parts were already addressed by others.I didn't meen to "deflect" or hurt feelings by not responding. Sorry.
JUST stick to what you're good at--WATCHING, JayDub.
As someone who was born and has lived for a while in the South (Texas and Florida), as well as lived in the North and West (Connecticut and California) for long periods of time, what Hillary was doing with her accent was not "faked". She was doing something familiar to many Southerners. When we are speaking to Northern or Western people, we can remove our Southern drawl. If we're speaking to proud Southerners, we can enhance that Southern drawl to show our "roots" in a way. I do this all the time in my personal life. Speaking to family members from New York for example, I will remove my Southern drawl as much as possible. When I attended UCLA, I could remove my accent. But when I came home and spoke with my Southern friends, I could enhance the "southerness" of my accent again.Any person with an accent has probably done this.
Hillary should really be ashamed of herself for talking like that. She was basically making fun of southerners. She reminds me of Al Gore talking like a black preacher. Why can't she just talk in her normal voice instead of trying to be like her audience? I agree with Michael Savage; Hillary is too mentally unstable to be President. Michael Savage for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Borders, language, & culture: three issues of which Hillary doesn't care.
"I agree with Michael Savage; Hillary is too mentally unstable to be President. Michael Savage for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Nominated: Most unintentionally ironic post of the day.
Hillarious!!!! Ha!
If she speaks to Republicans she would say 'F@66oT', WAr or Terrur, secure our borders, lower taxes and their all time favorite: segregation now, segregation Forever!!
Gay marriage is evil. It's immoral, just as polygamy and sibling marriage are. (Why don't liberals ever argue that if a brother and sister "love" each other, they should be able to marry? Please don't give me the argument about the baby being screwed up. Even if the sister is long past menopause, she can't marry her brother.)Christianity is not bigotry. Keeping gay marriage illegal doesn't violate the Constitution (since being gay is just a lifestyle and gays can turn straight if they want to; they still have the right to marry someone of the opposite sex. There's no equal protection argument). Society has a right to protect moral values (It does. That's why prostitution, drugs, and even gambling are all illegal in at least part of the country) and the nuclear family. What gays do in private is their business, but society should not affirm that lifestyle.
Please crawk back in your cave, troglydyte.
Hi Crazy Politician818- I don't think it's any of the governments business if a brother and sister want to get married, so you can't say "never".
BTW, you've just zoomed into the lead as my favorite insane righty here. Congratulations.
It's nobody's business if a brother and sister want to get married? That is fringe element liberalism there.
Clinton WAS affecting a southern drawl. Anyone with half a brain cell can figure that out.
I agree - it's the ones with more than half a brain cell who don't agree.
OK, then what was she affecting...a NORTHERN drawl?
Val writes insightful posts on a regular basis and contributes to the conversation. I think he is allowed a short one from time to time.
Why don't you take his comment to heart and stop with the drive by "drive by" postings? If you feel strongly about a subject it would be great to read what you think about the issue in question.
Apparently Media Matters is tone deaf, in addition to dishonest.
Hillary's not a southerner. She's originally from Illinois.
Why doesn't Media Matters give Savage credit? He just said that he's sick of Bush and that listening to Bush speak makes him want to vomit. He said that Bush should resign and that he's sick of what Bush has done to the Marines in Hamdania and Haditha (persecuting them). Media Matters should give Savage credit for attacking Bush. Bush is a scumbag for not pardoning the poor Marines and the border patrol agents.
hmmm insane and off topic.
like a ransom note.
Correction.
Bush is not involved in the two incidents you mentioned.
The marines have been charged by the Marine Corps after a thorough investigation by the Marine Corps.
Are we to understand that you approve of allowing people who were the uniform of this nation to rape and murder?
Correction to Correction
The rape and murder charges were brought against five soldiers involved in an incident in the town of Mahmoudiya.
Worrier, I think the bedwetters probably believe it is okay to rape and murder Muslims.
What does God say about STUPID people getting married and creating MORE STUPID people?
According to Wikipedia, E.D. Hill has been married three times.
'Nuff said.
politician818, take your interpretation of the Bible and shove it!
Why isn't Bush criticized for his phony southern accent?
Did he pick that up at Yale, Harvard or Andover?
That was funny.
Something tells me that Clinton was quoting someone and impersonating them. She couldn't have been that blatant of a panderer. But MM didn't even mention the "Homies!" comment! That one was equally offensive.
Dude, it's like five lines up from the bottom.
Heh!
"If she was speaking at a FOX news convention would she speak out of her ass?"
: - )
Actually Bush is at fault for what happened to the Marines. He's the commander-in-chief. He can pardon them. He can also pardon the border patrol agents. There is no real proof of the Marines doing wrong. I don't trust Iraqi "witnesses." The Marines were just defending themselves. Savage will pardon all of these people on January 20, 2009. Bush is a disgrace. I can't believe that the liberals in here are defending Bush on this. He's an idiot.
Yeah, I don't know why all these liberals don't support Savage for not being a Bushbot.
818, did you really get banned and create a new login that fast?
I'm outta here. Later.
Homies, here she is.
Gratuitous.