KSFO's Morgan attacks Obama for church's "commitment to Africa," but Bush admin. also committed
On the March 5 broadcast of San Francisco radio station KSFO's Sussman, Morgan, and Vic, co-host Melanie Morgan, while discussing Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago, which is attended by Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), stated, "[T]his is a major American presidential candidate whose church that he belongs to -- says he's proud to belong to -- says that their allegiance goes to Africa before it goes to America." But while the Trinity website contains a "10-point Vision" that calls for its congregation to make "a non-negotiable commitment to Africa," there is no statement on the website that such a commitment supersedes a parishioner's commitment to the United States. Moreover, a fact sheet on the White House website is titled "The U.S. Commitment To Africa's Growth And Prosperity," and the Bush White House has reaffirmed its "commitment to Africa" as recently as 2005.
Morgan also stated that "people in that church believe you swear allegiance to Africa before you do over America." Co-host Brian Sussman added that "a friend of mine in the Bay Area who is a pastor at a very evangelical-slash-fundamental church" believes "that the church that Obama belongs to is actually a cult."
As Media Matters for America has previously noted, Trinity has adopted what it calls the "Black Value System," which encourages parishioners to be "soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind." In addition, Trinity's mission statement reads, "[W]e are called to be agents of liberation not only for the oppressed, but for all of God's family."
From the March 5 broadcast of Morgan, Sussman, and Vic:
MORGAN: I've got to urge everybody to go to Melanie Morgan-dot-com and click on the "Cat Call." Catherine Moy has done a 2,000-word article with original reporting in it about Senator Obama that's just going to shock you to pieces -- it did me. Senator Obama's church that he belongs to in the Chicago area is Afro-centric. In other words, people at that church believe you swear allegiance to Africa before you do over America.
SUSSMAN: I will tell you, I have a friend of mine in the Bay Area -- a friend of mine in the Bay Area who is a pastor at a very evangelical-slash-fundamental church with a large percentage of his people black, this guy himself, African-American, and he has said -- I mean this is his thought -- that the church that Obama belongs to is actually a cult. I mean this is coming from an evangelical Christian, describing Obama's church as a quote-unquote "cult." So, you know, take that for what it's worth, but the point is for him to pass this off as one of those, you know, Bible-believing, fundamental, evangelical--
MORGAN: No.
SUSSMAN: -- Christian churches. In fact, some of the things that Barack Obama has said regarding leaders in the evangelical church are quite unflattering. I'm thinking of what he said concerning Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell, some of these others.
MORGAN: Right. Let me quote you, by Catherine Moy's article at Melanie Morgan-dot-com. It says, "Sen. Barack Obama worships in an 'unashamedly Black' church with covenants and a", quote, " 'vision' that include 'a disavowal of the pursuit of middleclassness' and a 'pledge of allegiance to all black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System.' The Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago has a 'congregation with a non-negotiable commitment to Africa,' according to its own website. 'We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian. Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain 'true to our native land,' "according to the website. And it goes on. I mean, it is shocking. I mean, this is a major American presidential candidate whose church that he belongs to -- says he's proud to belong to -- says that their allegiance goes to Africa before it goes to America.
Morgan: Blah- blah- blah... AFRICA!! Blah- blah- blah...OBAMA!! Blah- blah- blah...UNAMERICAN!! God, the more i listen to her, the more she reminds me of a shriek-bat...
Have any of you looked at the Church beliefs?
http://www.tucc.org/about.htm
While most are noble, there are a couple that some might question:
1. Commitment to God 2. Commitment to the Black Community 3. Commitment to the Black Family (Family AFTER Community?)4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education 5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence 6. Adherence to the Black Work Ethic 7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect 8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of "Middleclassness" 9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the Black Community 10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions 11. Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System 12. Personal commitment to embracement of the Black Value System. The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision: 1. A congregation committed to ADORATION. 2. A congregation preaching SALVATION. 3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION. 4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA. 5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION. 6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION. 7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA. 8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION. 9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION. 10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.
Liberation from what? Restoration of what?
Sorry about the formatting... it looked great in preview mode.
And yes, most of the items are fine. But imagine the crapstorm if some other church inserted the words white where it says black. Cats & dogs living together. Total anarchy.
Try the link for a better view of the list: http://www.tucc.org/about.htm
Ah, the false equivalence defense again. I guess you are one of those who believes any mention of race is by definition racism?
Are you asking me about the racism thing? I think that any mention of an opinion other than what liberals believe is instant justification to call someone a warmongerer, hatemongerer, racist, etc. I simply stated a fact... I was trying to head off those on the left that are overly sensitive to any mention of race. :-)
I'm asking you about the "imagine the crapstorm if some other church inserted the words white where it says black" bit.
We have all had this discussion before ad nauseum. The main point (that you probably won't even get --why do I even bother?) is that it isn't necessarily about race at all. It is about a minority joining together for protection against a majority. It happens all of the time in nature and elsewhere.
If any group is threatened or even feels threatened by a majority, it tends to grow closer together often based on common interests.
The reason your point isn't sinking in to rational, responsible adults is because it is nothing more than an excuse. To say that someone has every right to be a bigot, simply because they are a minority, is absurd. Bigotry and racism cannot be rationalized and excused, and used to play the victim card, against anyone.
Define "bigotry" in the context of this church.
Also, I think actual "victims" should have the right to play the "victim card." I don't think members of the majority get to say when a victimised class of people can and cannot assert their status of victims. It's too easy.
I am not speaking about this church, I was responding in a general sense.
If you feel playing the victim card is good for you, by all means do it. However, if people work hard enough, stay in school, avoid moral mistakes and keep their nose clean, there is no reason to play the victim card. Those that do it just don't want to take responsibility for thier own failings, so it's far easier to blame someone or something else. Show me someone who plays that card and you will usually see the reasons why they are where they are, in the choices THEY make.
Well, generalities don't make for a very interesting discussion. "Playing the victim card" is an expression that has been pretty much demagogued to meaninglessness.
I mean, for every person who uses their race as an excuse (I certainly concede they exist), I can show you a hard-working person who struggles to overcome their circumstances and keeps getting beaten down.You accuse me of speaking in generalizations and then you throw one right out there. There is always an example that can be shown that disproves something 100%. However, overall speaking "playing the victim card" is normally used by those who won't take responsibility. Those that work hard and are still being beaten down, as you say, normally just pick themselves up and honorably keep trying......they wouldn't think of whining and blaming someone else.
Tommy, you accused yourself of speaking in generalities.
I was just responding, under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that you were interesting in discussing the subject further.
Is there any possible response people could have to social injustice, other than to "pick themselves up and honorably keep trying," that you would not consider "whining", "blaming someone else," or "playing the victim card?"
"I am not speaking about this church, I was responding in a general sense." --tommy
So you really don't have a point at all here?
You might want to consider where the church center is located and what are the minorities there.
Please. So some whites are a minority in the church. Do you have a point? Do you think those whites feel threatened? Why would they?
Yeah Cannon you have a point.
Although I do not in a any way believe Obama is a black supremacist, some of the wording used on the website is suspicious. Personally I do not feel the media is giving Obama a chance to explain the premises of his church. I am sure Obama would give a reasonable explanation for the questionable verses on it's site.
Are you sure you want to go down that road? Shall we have Romney explain some of the wacko beliefs of the Mormon Church?
Dude, why are you asking us?
There's a link right there, click it and read.
pssssstt...!! I have a friend who says that all people with the name Morgan are, in fact, retarded devil-monkeys.... now, that's what SHE said, so take it as you wish...
I guess we'd better not vote for Obama's church for president.
And, this may open a can of worms, but I personally believe ALL religions are cults, with no exceptions...
I agree, but some people on here would accuse me of religious bigotry, so I'm not going to say anything about it.
cult + time = religion
How true. All a cult needs to become a religion is X number of converts, money and a little political power. The early Christians might have been wiped out but for one accident of history...the conversion of Constantine, who was by some accounts quite evil.
When asked what I think about Christianity, I paraphrase Gandhi:
"I think it would be a good idea."
We have all probably doomed the Presidential chances of anyone who reads this site...
There is really no way to correct these people. They do not care if they are right or wrong. They just want to put misinformation out there.
As if I'm going to believe any thing that Moy person says or a fundamentalist preacher who is actually the cultist.
The people she is speaking to and the people that buy this line of crapola would never vote for Obama or any candidate I would ever support anyway; but it's really sad to see someone spend a life time spreading lies and hatred. God what a wasted existence.
Lynn,
be sure to send a thank you note to Hearst and Pulitzer for inventing yellow journalism. Too bad we can't get congress to make lying via the press illegal.
Well, you see, they are fishing for some excuse to vilify him other than the most obvious...he's black. The Republican party, for the most part, is not ready for a black president. I'm not even sure that the Democratic party is ready. We'll see.
Sorry... Obama is not black. He's bi-racial. He's just as white as he is black. Biracial like Tiger Woods, Jason Kidd, Derek Jeter et al. And this isn't a racist statement. It's a fact.
Not sure where you grew up, Cannon... in America, any amount of black blood makes you black. I am not saying that is a good or bad thing, but that's the conventional definition.
Halle Berry has a white parent, as does Alicia Keyes. This is not a new thing...
And, fifty years ago, if he had tried to use the "white" restroom, he would have been told he was black. Now he wants to consider himself black, and you say he can't because he has a non-black parent? What's your point?
My point is that race should be irrelevant. He's an American and should be evaluated based on his voting record and publicly stated beliefs.
So what does it matter if he's only half black?
He's an American and should be evaluated based on his voting record and publicly stated beliefs.
Then why do you keep bringing up his church? Has Obama publicly endorsed every one of his church's beliefs?
My point is that race should be irrelevant.
I agree. it should be. It's not, though... and the way to make it irrelevant is not to pretend that racial problems don't exist in this country.
Obama is what he says he is. I know you feel offended because somehow you believe Obama is rejecting the portion of his racial makeup that he shares with you and HOW DARE HE! Obama is just accepting an American reality and that is that anyone with a Black ancestor especially a parent as is the case with Obama is treated the same as a person that's 100% Black. Obama speaks in adoring terms of his mom and the White grandparents that help rear him. He's not rejecting them.
Okay...let's ask your typical evangelical which takes precedence — the U.S. Constitution or the Bible?
Now, what was her point.....?
I'd rather have a president whose church is committed to Africa than one whose church believes the world is about to end.
"original reporting in it about Senator Obama that's just going to shock you to pieces"
No, Melanie. I wasn't shocked to pieces. I'm not even shocked that you made up this statement, "...says that their allegiance goes to Africa before it goes to America."
Melanie Morgan: Her allegiance/commitment is to misinformation before it is to the truth.
Yes the antithesis of TRUTH, JUSTICE, and THE AMERCAN WAY! Superman would be quite ashamed of Melanie.
Melanie, you are a LIAR.
There's nothing to see here folks, just move along.
Bi-racial is the "new" term that allows more latitude for some folks to discuss race.
I have not heard of any black folks calling themselves "Half-African". It's a new term that is used by Rush, Bill, Sean and Morgan. It tells me something about the people who are using that term.
I must say, having Obama in the race has brought front and center how we in this country STILL cannot discuss past, present and future issues dealing with race. It puts people like Rush, Bill, Sean and Morgan in a position where they say what they really feel and cover there a** with the "it's a joke".
Talk to rabid Evangelical Christians and you'll find their allegiance is strongly to God first, not America. It's only scary when you consider that they will sell their vote to anyone, regardless how unqualified or bad for America he is, who promises to appoint judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. The question to Evangelicals then becomes "Okay, how far are you willing to go to overturn Roe v. Wade?" Their real home is in heaven with God... America is just a temporary stop on the way there.
. . . "You spin me right round, baby/right round" . . .
Its funny . . . you always hear the media/political wingnuts and their minions telling people, minorities in particular, to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" . . .
Now, here's Sen. Obama as a member of a church that has that same committment . . . but because its "Afrocentric," it can't possibly be good . . .
And WTH? . . .
"Sorry . . . Obama is not black. He's bi-racial. He's just as much white as he is black." - BB pellet, er, Cannonball
Quite a change from the days of the "One Drop" rule . . . I guess because Sen. Obama is accomplished and articulate, that MUST be the "white" half - couldn't POSSIBLY be the black one - right?
Ask Ann Coulter... If Obama dresses well and has a little style she may have to go into rehab for saying he's a "f4ggot". And then Rush Limbaugh will publicly ponder whether it comes from Obama's white side or black side.
Obama's gonna have to have really thick skin... and i suspect he does.
But I thought liberals cared more about global warming then Africa? It's so hard to keep up with right wing spin.
Well, lookie who we have in the White House now. A pretend Christian who just uses the religious right to advance his theft of the US Treasury to enrich his cronies. Google Ralph Reed and Jack Abromoff and see what you find about K Street etc.
But he pays lip service to the "right to life", and he said that Jeeeeezzzzzuuuussssss was his favorite philosopher. That's good enough for the Troglodytes...no matter how many people he's gotten killed.