NY Times' Kristof purported to fault presidential candidates but mentioned only Democrats
In his March 18 column (subscription required), The New York Times' Nicholas D. Kristof criticized "American politicians" for not being open and honest in their discussions of the United States' relationship with Israel. "There is no serious political debate among either Democrats or Republicans about our policy toward Israelis and Palestinians," Kristof wrote. "And that silence harms America, Middle East peace prospects and Israel itself."
Kristof also bemoaned the fact that "no major American candidate is willing today to be half as critical of hard-line Israeli government policies as, say, Haaretz, the Israeli newspaper." The columnist then highlighted recent comments from Democratic candidates Sen. Barack Obama (IL) -- for which Kristof noted that Obama "has been scolded" -- and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY). But nowhere in his column did Kristof refer to any of the Republican candidates and their public comments about Israel.
Of course Republicans are perfect andwould never do anything wrong.
(YES! I'm first to post!!)
Just have to be the first to post on this Monday about Mr. Pumpkinhead's bringing Delay on Meet the Press. Yeah, Media Matters you're absolutely right, both parties are guilty of kowtowing to Israel. Now to get to something really unbelievable. How could any credible news organization bring Tom Delay and Perle out to pontificate about anything? These Bozos both should now be so far discredited to be even allowed into public discourse.
I know this is off-topic, and will probably get flagged, but I noticed the same thing. Is it getting hard to find a respectable Republican who is willing to spew the Pro-war talking points?
But Mandan,
at least Russert's show was "fair and balanced." Let's give him credit when he deserves it.
He had on two partisan Cons, and two strong Liberal voices. And he had on a fresh face, that Tom Andrews from "Win Without War."
I thought the show was pretty strong. At least it was fair.
Nerzog is right. Delay and Perle were probably the only two people that could come on and with a straight face state W's case. This gig was beneath Cheney and Trannie Annie has marginalized herself too far.
I agree.
I found it absolutely hillarious how Tom Delay questioned Congressman Andrews'(who was a vice navy admiral) allegiance. I remember the other congressman(Stenck?) saying "I would trust a navy admiral before I would trust you Tom Delay"... The two democratic guests WIPED the floor with Perle and Delay.
The difference is, the Repugnants never talk internally about the subject, but instead ask for Karl's talking points. Thus, "There is no serious political debate . . .", because the policy within the Party is uniform! No need to divulge names, making those disclosed tagets for the "liberal media", is there?
And regurgitating Herr Karl's talking points, time and time again, is a real "shake hands with the devil" because they are disproved almost on a weekly basis. So spend the money you get for ignoring reality, boys, we've got an election to steal.
Because IOKIYAR, right?
OK, you win! I had hoped for someone else to figure it out, and provide a lead for me to follow - but, either that is now part of the culture (which I only encounter on the web) or it mystifies everyone else as much as it stumps me.
So, what IS it?
Its OK If You're A Republican
Israel may be another one of those "third rail" issues. If anyone of either party dares to criticize Israel, the Flying Monkeys devour them. My understanding is that Israel has violated as many U.N. resolutions as Saddam did, but I haven't seen anything official on that.
Part of the reason is that the Religious Right fascists believe all that end-time hokum, and don't want to be caught on the wrong side of Armageddon. I'm not sure why the Left is so deferential to Israel.
I jsut don't get it. Who really cares about Isreal? We have anough problems at home to worry about. Just another load of crap.
The same nuts that care about Iraq...We have enough problems at home...AGREED
Exactly, and the two may be related. Tim LaHaye, who reportedly has Puddinhead George's ear, believes that Iraq will be the headquarters for the Anti-Christ. Coincidence? Only Dick Cheney knows for sure.
Let's not forget money and the concentration of that artificial power.
I am thoroughly sick of this timidity around the questioning of our policies toward the Israeli government. What are you smoking? Many of our problems at home are connected to the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians. The lack of peace there impacts our energy policy, military policy, foreign policy, and it all eventually filters down to our domestic security. The continued illegal building of settlements on the West Bank, land that is often confiscated illegally from Palestinian owners, is big secret kept from the American public. It is against International law for an occupying force to do such things. This information does appear in the press from time-to-time but never sustained in the mainstream print press and rarely uttered in broadcast media. Our politicians are gutless when it comes to this issue because they know the moment they open their mouths AIPAC will conduct their very own shock and awe campaign against them. There is a group of right-wing fanatics behind the continued building upon lands that were supposed to be set aside for a Palestinian state. The people in that region are not stupid. They know Israel could not continue to finance these settlements from their own national budget were it not receiving huge subsidies and other forms of military aide from the United States. Until we, as a country, begin to be more balanced and call both the Israelis and the Palestinians to task for breaking laws and past agreements, and begin to seek justice not just peace for both sides, we have no hope of finding a settlement.
I expect I will be called an anti-semite by some but I'm not running for anything.
It's good to see others rising up against Israeli domination. That's why I so vehemently refuse to vote Republican or Democrat...they are puppets of Israel. The Greens would throw AIPAC out of DC, the Big Two are too deep in bed with it.
I'm not sure why the Left is so deferential to Israel.- nerzog
I think because the same Armageddon voters have enough impact, or have convinced everyone that they do, to swing elections.
Not to mention that the Israelis look more familiar and less "Arab-y" to your average American, and have been positioned as the "good guys" by the media.(meshing with the Judeo-Christian values that our country was founded on and all ;oD)
Well, I'm a recovering Left Zionist who has long since given up on the Israeli body politic. I supported Israel because I grew up with many, many Jewish friends... and because I love an underdog. As I grew up, I saw through my idealised image of the Jewish state - instead of the scrappy fighter, I saw the bully, the persecuted people become persecutors.
It has been painful to turn away from support for Israel, made all the much more so by its defenders liberal use of the anti-Semitism smear.
One state in Israel/Palestine, from the sea to the Jordan, one person/one vote, with the rights and lives of the Jewish people safeguarded in law and vouchsafed by every Arab country. There is no other solution.
My personal opinion is that OPPOSING Isreali foriegn policy IS supporting Israel. Its axiomatic that they cannot survive in a state of perpetual warfare. I am not sure if a bi national state or two states is the solution but the Palestinians MUST be given some justice.
Oh, it's simple. AIPAC has pots of cash to hand out to any politician willing to kill an arab child for a campaign contribution...and there's no shortage of them. Can't call anyone on the AIPAC payroll a leftist though, racist genocide is a far-right activity.
Israel has defied many UN resolutions and they DO HAVE Nuclear Weapons!!! When are we going to occupy that country?
Back to topic, who "scolded" Sen. Obama and what was the conetent of that scolding? I am unaware of this.
Apparently he was hammered by the usual suspects for his comment about the suffering of the Palestinians. I guess this would be the same as if a presidential candidate had bemoaned the plight of the Indians in the 1800s.
The Palestinians have certainly done things which are reprehensible, but there are two sides to that story. Most people in the U.S. don't seem interested in hearing both sides.
Yes, Nicholas Kristof is clearly, historically, a republican and a conservative apologist.
::rolls eyes::
If anything, this should be a compliment to the Democrats, as Kristof clearly feels Obama and Clinton are the two best chances for president right now.
Next.
Those of us not rolling our eyes took the time to understand that no matter who wrote the piece should have been more careful to include examples from both sides.
Why should past writings have anything to do with the topic at hand? Are you saying that aware readers are supposed to gloss over an obvious balance problem?
::not rolling eyes so I can read and understand::
Huh? Your'e rolling your eyes at the idea that Kristol is a Repub and conservative apologist? Are you trying to say that he isn't?
Scratch that. I'm having some of my own reading comprehension problems this morning. Sorry.
I realize MMFA can't present Kristof's column here, but a better summarization would have been helpful.
What did Obama & Clinton say? And if Obama was "scolded" for his comments, then doesn't it stand to reason that he DID criticize Israel? Or at least tackle the subject? Wouldn't Kristoff praise him for this?
Also MMFA could have mentioned which Republicans had RECENTLY made remarks about the Israeli government. Positive or negative.
This thread seems very thin in information.
To see where Senator Slither really stands on the Palestinian/Israel issue, dig on Obama's Israel Problem by Joshua Frank,
http://www.counterpunch.org/frank03162007.html
He was scolded by AIPAC for daring to consider the Palestinians as human beings. He quickly kissed up to the Zionist cash....them Palestinians just don't have enough lobby money to buy DC politicians, ya know.
It's my guess that yes, ideally one would hope for some sort of balance in articles such as this but (and I wish I could read the whole article - damn Times Select) from the brief snippet here I personally am not getting any heartburn over Kristof mentioning Hillary and Obama with regards to the Dems' seeming deference to Israel. We hardly hear anything bad with regards to Israel (and not making light of their history or struggle to survive) but they haven't always been above board in their dealings as well, yet we support them, right or wrong. (Even when they've caused harm to the US.) No other nation gets that kind of leeway. There are some here that have made mention of such a lot better than what I've done in this post.
I have to believe that if we (USA) were more even handed in dealings in the middle east, that would go a long way in the minds of the other countries there.
As long as we maintain this "Israel can do no wrong" attitude, I worry if things will ever improve in that region.
The reason Kristof didn't mention Republicans is because they are so hopeless on Israel that it wasn't worth nentioning them. Kristof is a Dem and could care less what McCain or Rudy says about anything.
And if this is the case that Kristof is calling out the Dems on Israel, I say more power to him!
Plus (and I think this is essentially what you are saying above), we are supporting "Israel" to the detriment of the Israeli people themselves, let alone the Palestinians, let alone... um, us.
I agree, any pressure to step away from a mindless pro-Israel" (meaning pro-Likud) position is only to the benefit of everyone.
The reason Kristof didn't mention Republicans is because they are so hopeless on Israel that it wasn't worth nentioning them....by mjx8472522
I agree 100%. Republicans are blindly PRO-Israel.
But MMFA seems to be concerned about the lack of mention by Kristof about this:
But nowhere in his column did Kristof refer to any of the Republican candidates and their public comments about Israel.
You know this website. If a commentator or columnist said a Dem was having a bad hair day, they'd have to write a column refuting it. It's that letter behind a person's name, not the issues, that matter here. The Democrat relationship with AIPAC will not be questioned, only that someone pointed it out without reference to "the other guys". It does get very petty.
Scooter,
First, I need examples that main Republican candidates for president have been "scolded" like Obama and Clinton over this issue. Second, you need to somehow convince me that the vast majority of Kristof's columns do not support social causes that most liberals/progressives also support. Until then, I will stop rolling my eyes.
First, I need examples that main Republican candidates for president have been "scolded" like Obama and Clinton over this issue.
What?
And the rest of your post also seems to have problems with tenses...
What was hard about it? If Scooter claims I didn't read the article right, that the point was that Kristof didn't give examples from "both sides", shouldn't he provide examples that those on the "other side" have been scolded as well like Obama and Clinton?
Your other point is nonsense.
The really significant thing is that Kristof is taking a stand on AIPAC's intimidation of democratic and republican politicians.
He joins a small but growing group of individuals that are finding the cajones to stand up to them.
Another who is speaking out is George Soros:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20030
In 1776, we revolutionaries were calling for freedom from England. It's now 2007 and we're calling for freedom from Israel. We need to free the homeland from foreign control and domination yet again. And they didn't come in and conquer us, we got literally sold out!!! Dems and Repubs are traitors to the USA....they handed our foreign policy over to Israel for a few campaign dollars. They're traitors all.
To virtue, liberty, and independence. Long live the revolution. No more killing arabs for Israel.