Fineman to pal Imus: Racist comments aren't OK any more like they used to be
Discussing host Don Imus' April 4 comments on MSNBC's Imus in the Morning -- in which Imus referred to the Rutgers women's basketball team as "nappy headed hos" -- and the controversy that ensued, Newsweek editor Howard Fineman, appearing on the April 9 edition of Imus in the Morning, asserted: "[I]t's a different time, Imus ... it's different than it was even a few years ago, politically," and added that "some of the stuff that you used to do, you probably can't do anymore." Fineman continued, "I mean, just looking specifically at the African-American situation. I mean, hello, [Sen.] Barack Obama's [D-IL] got twice the number of contributors as anybody else in the race," and added, "[T]hings have changed. And the kind of -- some of the kind of humor that you used to do you can't do anymore. And that's just the way it is."
Later, discussing Imus' expressed desire to meet with the Rutgers team, Fineman asserted that "all of us who do your show, you know, we're part of the gang. And we rely on you the way you rely on us." Fineman added, "So, you know, you're taking all of us with you when you go out there to meet with them, you know."
Fineman also said that he would "like to continue to enable you to do a lot of the good things you do. Including, you know, talking about stuff happening in the world, which you do a very good job of on this show."
As New York Times columnist David Carr noted, several journalists were scheduled to appear on Imus' show on April 9, and NBC media figures often appear on his show. Carr explained:
Given that Mr. Imus spent part of last week describing the student athletes at Rutgers as "nappy-headed ho's," you might think he'd have trouble booking anyone, let alone A-list establishment names. But Mr. Imus, who has been given a pass for this sort of comment in the past, also generously provides airtime to those parts of the news media and political apparatus that would generally be expected to bring him to account.
As Media Matters for America noted, Imus apologized for the comments on the April 6 edition of Imus in the Morning.
From the April 9 edition of MSNBC's Imus in the Morning:
[2:08:18]
FINEMAN: Just before I came on the show, I was coming upstairs and my cell phone rang, and it was some listener who called me out of the blue. I'd never heard of the guy before. I'd never heard his name. He called me and he said, "Are you going to go on the show and finally confront this Imus guy? Are you going to quit enabling him?" And, you know, I thought about that, and I said to the guy, "You know, I'll puzzle that through on the radio." And I would like to continue to enable you to do a lot of the good things you do. Including, you know, talking about stuff happening in the world, which you do a very good job of on this show.
You know, the form of humor that you do here is risky, and sometimes it runs off the rails. Most of the people who listen to this show get the joke most of the time, and sometimes, you know, as David Carr said in The New York Times this morning, sometimes you go over the line so far you can't even see the line. And that's what happened in this case. And I think of all the stuff you've done and do do, and, you know, you make your mistakes -- we all make our mistakes. We all make mistakes. This was a big one. And I thought that the way you handled it just now -- and I'm not blowing smoke here -- I believe it, you know, was very heartfelt. And I know you well enough to know that that's the case and you're going to do everything you can to set it right.
You know, I don't know what'll happen. I think -- you know, it's a different time, Imus. You know, it's different than it was even a few years ago, politically. I mean, we may, you know -- and the environment, politically, has changed. And some of the stuff that you used to do, you probably can't do anymore.
IMUS: No, you can't. I mean --
FINEMAN: You just can't. Because the times have changed. I mean, just looking specifically at the African-American situation. I mean, hello, Barack Obama's got twice the number of contributors as anybody else in the race.
IMUS: Amen.
FINEMAN: I mean, you know, things have changed. And the kind of -- some of the kind of humor that you used to do you can't do anymore. And that's just the way it is.
IMUS: But I would say, in the spirit of charity, that the same black journalists who are calling for me to be fired had the option -- and the same black leaders -- they had the option to call me when I was asking for weeks about help in trying to get more information about sickle-cell anemia, about what the government was doing, about what could be done about research. And nobody -- nobody -- called me.
I'm not looking to get patted on the back for that, but those are the facts. So we -- people can write and say whatever they want to say about me, but they have an obligation to respect the facts of my life and what I do. And I'm not trying to excuse or weasel out of anything. But a context and a proportionality to who I am and what I do and what my wife does is crucial. So, anyway, thanks.
FINEMAN: Well, I hope the women from Rutgers will meet with you, and -- although I can understand if they won't, but I hope that they do. This is what they call a teaching moment, you know, in child-rearing, they call a teaching moment. This is a teaching moment for us all. For everybody. You know, all of us who do your show, you know, we're part of the gang. And we rely on you the way you rely on us. So, you know, you're taking all of us with you when you go out there to meet with them, you know.
IMUS: Well, these people at CBS Radio, Les Moonves on down, have known me for years. I wouldn't be on the radio this morning if they thought that I meant this or if they thought that I was a bad person. They know what the deal is with the show -- everybody understands that. Same with -- I've been on MSNBC for 10 years. I know everybody over there. From [NBC Universal president Jeffrey] Zucker on down. So --
FINEMAN: Well, we'll see how it goes.
IMUS: They're not fools, you know.
FINEMAN: We'll see how it goes. Good luck with it.
Oh boo hoo laments Fineman to his poor put upon pal Imus 'you can't poke fun at, or demean certain people anymore, like you could in the good old days'
Is this man for real?
Humor?
Like all of those who bemoan so-called PC'ness are really lamenting that they can no longer tell their favorite n**** or polack or f**** joke without being told what a-holes they are to their face rather then having it muttered behind their backs.
As disgusting as Imus's remarks were I find Fineman's remarks just as inexcusable. He's enabling Imus by defending the statements as something Imus could have said a few years ago and nobody would have raised an objection to them. Fineman seems to be blaming the times rather than pointing out that Imus's statement were in bad taste no matter whether he'd said it years ago or today.
How about when Imus calls Cheney "pork-chop butt"?
"Pork-chop butt" is very stupid and childish, but these were racially-charged remarks. And are you defending the "nappy-headed hos" remark?
He made the outlandish comments and he said he was sorry.
No one called for Hillary to be fired from the senate for a racist Indian/Ghandi joke. Biden has made two racist jokes and no called for him to resign.
A comedian tells a racist joke and you people call for him to resign. Play a Chris Rock dvd once. Talk about racist.
Remember, Imus was a John Kerry supporter. It's not like Media Matters is picking on a staunch conservative.
JOKES you say? Are you telling me you found the "nappy-headed ho's" line FUNNY, Leatherhelmet? I don't know what you are talking about when you reference Clinton, but Biden has lost his presidentail running due to his remarks. Regardless -
Remember, Imus was a John Kerry supporter. It's not like Media Matters is picking on a staunch conservative.
Well then nobody can accuse the site of having a double-standard now, can they?
Exactly whatever happened to a sense of humor and general levelheadedness? Imus' joke wasn't funny but it was A JOKE, son! Or do critics think he was serious?
What grandstanding! Imus has said so many worse things that he WAS serious about (Hillary=Satan, etc.) that the cant surrounding this one issue is unbelievable.
Did it ever occur to some MM'ers here that maybe this outrage is directed at the fact that Imus has many Dems on, and that this is an attenpt to smear them by association? (just see how FOX is spinning Imus today, and why does Howard Stern et. al get away with similar jokes...but not Imus?
Exactly whatever happened to a sense of humor and general levelheadedness? Imus' joke wasn't funny but it was A JOKE, son! Or do critics think he was serious? - You should probably be asking Imus those questions. Jokes are funny, and if it's not funny, then it wasn't a joke. Take Stewart and Colbert - they make funny jokes, and they are serious about it. They never have to go back and say "Oh, I didn't mean it, people took that the wrong way..." because they are seriously joking. Imus was probably being seriously stupid.
What grandstanding! Imus has said so many worse things that he WAS serious about (Hillary=Satan, etc.) that the cant surrounding this one issue is unbelievable. - If you're saying he's long overdue, most of us here would probably agree.
Did it ever occur to some MM'ers here that maybe this outrage is directed at the fact that Imus has many Dems on, and that this is an attenpt to smear them by association? (just see how FOX is spinning Imus today, and why does Howard Stern et. al get away with similar jokes...but not Imus? - If you're trying to imply that Imus isn't being given a free ride because of his not being as conservative, that's exactly the sort of thing we're trying to stop. But giving him a free ride for the partisan reason he's being persecuted by others would be hypocrisy. As for Stern, I don't listen to him. Got any instances of him making similar remarks?
Yeah, someone should have clued old Imus in that only black people can call black people n*****s or "nappy-headed ho's." And if you do it to a hip-hop beat, it's solid gold and white people just don't understand or appreciate their oh-so black experience.
It was stupid thing to say or to even get caught up "riffing" with one of the knuckle-draggers in the background on his show.
I do not believe for a minute that Don Imus has hate in his heart that's on par with the uproar.
Bernard Ma-jerk, Imus' sidekick makes me sick when he goes after Nagin or does his Cardinal Eagan thing. He needs to go.
You're right. His sidekicks are far, far worse than Imus. And they're not even funny.
Funny how every time a white racist gets called on the carpet for attacking black people, another white racist defends the attack by launching yet another attack on the black experience and culture. Thanks Billy.
These comments have never been ok.
Imus may now feel "bad" but he has been saying these things for 20-30 years. The main stream media outlet "MSNBC" is no place for Imus to spew this hate. If Imus were on XM it would not be an issue ,although still disgusting. My problem with Imus has always been his homophobic and racist jestures. Fineman is dead wrong. When will the sucking up to this man stop? If it were not for Media Matters showing this story last week this would have never accelerated. Thank you MMFA for this. Great job!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where are all these critics of Imus when bernard puts a Fed-Ex envelope on his head pretending to be a klansman? That's the true bigot on Imus, time to give baldy his walking papers.
Actually he puts the Fed Ex Envelope on to pretend to be "Cardinal Egan". It is a case of Religious bigotry at its Worst. The sexual innuendo that comes out of Bernies mouth when doing that is a disgrace.
I've seen him put it on when refering Ray Nagin also.
The attacks on Ray Nagin are 100% racist and disgusting. It makes my skin crawl.
Ah, but as Andrew Greeley once noted, anti-Catholicism is one of the last intellectually tolerated prejudices in America. Not that we have helped ourselves anyway with the whole pedophilia thing, but still...
I'm just glad to see Imus is getting his own back. He's done this too many times. He needs to go.
All of these old shriveled up dinosaurs need to go. They obviously don't have much of substance to say. Let someone with ideas soak up some of the gravy that these gross, overpaid bloviators are drowning in.
As a follically disadvantaged Chromedome -American, I take umbrage at your "baldy" remark.
I KNOW THAT SOMETIMES WE ASSUME A LOT IN OUR PROFESSINAL LIVES I GUESS IN IMUS,S CASE AS LONG AS THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM SEEM TO BE ON THE SAME PAGE AS HIM CALLING PEOPLE NAMES AND HAVING EVERYBODY GET A GOOD OR YOU THINK LAUGH THINGS ARE FINE.I HEAR IN HIS VOICE THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN POSITIVE SHOULD NULIFY ANYTHING THAT MAY BE OUT OF PLACE. THIS IS ONE TIME WHERE THOSE SO CALLED GOOD THINGS HAVE BEEN OUTWEIGHED BY ONE BAD THING WHICH HAS BROUGHT ALL THOSE OTHER SNIDE REMARKS TO THE FRONT.
Little tip: If you want anyone to read your posts, you'll type them in lower case (even if that means you leave out capitalization.) A big paragraph of all uppercase text is just plain harder to read. (It also happens to be "Internet" for "shouting.")
BITTERMARY.
I AM SHOUTING
LOUD NOISES!
"I AM SHOUTING"
-----
I'm not listening.
CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL
Read the transcript and see who started the "ho" talk. How does this bigot keep his job?
MSNBC will never can the guy, and politicians and media "ho's" will continue to go on the show. Anything else said regarding the comments, then, is essentially an academic argument. His comments were outrageous, uncalled for, violent, sexist, racist and grossly insensitive. But for a guy with this many listeners, who can give access to those listeners for media types and politicians selling their ethics and standards to gain access to that audience, the money at stake won't allow MSNBC to fire his a---.
Imus must have photos of the president of NBC in bed with a live boy or a dead girl. What else would explain his continued presence on the air?
I generally don't care anything at all what this cadaver bum says, but can you believe how this transcript reads?
Can you believe how self-serving is the little skit that fineman and the cadaver put on here?
That's apparently what these hacks think the Public Airwaves are for: To alternately shill on behalf of whatever private interests their employer commands, and then when their own butts are in a sling, to hack away on their own behalf... which of course still serves their employer...
What a joke, have you ever heard such DAMAGE CONTROL?
fineman: "...I would like to continue to enable you to do a lot of the good things you do"
"talking about stuff happening in the world, which you do a very good job of on this show" [Making racist comments about student-athletes at Rutgers is "stuff happening in the world"?]
"Most of the people who listen to this show get the joke most of the time..." [It's your fault folks, for being so humorless... you didn't get the joke, you nappy-headed hos!]
"the environment, politically, has changed" [Can you believe what this guy is saying there? That the cadaver's insults weren't racist, they were 'politically incorrect' is all... again, it's your fault folks, you're too sensitive to swallow racist insults on the Public Airwaves!]
"I hope the women from Rutgers will meet with you" [Yeah, and while they're at it, they should get together with klansmen and nazis too, to make for one big DAMAGE CONTROL photo-op for them all!]
"all of us who do your show, you know, we're part of the gang. And we rely on you the way you rely on us. So, you know, you're taking all of us with you when you go out there to meet with them, you know" [We're all in the same boat brother... if you sink, we all sink... we're with you in spirit on this one, brother... we're all brothers under the skin, you know... "Why, if you hadn't called them 'nappy-headed hos', then one of us would have had to... somebody's got to say it brother"]
And then the cadaver himself...
cadaver: "these people at CBS Radio, Les Moonves on down, have known me for years. They know what the deal is with the show... Same with MSNBC... I know everybody over there. From [NBC Universal president Jeffrey] Zucker on down. So --
They're not fools, you know."
Way to go cadaver bum, way to drop a few names trying to save your cadaverous butt in a sling... too bad it's got nothing to do with anybody being a "fool"...
...too bad it's all about being a racist on the Public Airwaves...
Which this cadaver bum can be, on his own time... but on the Public Airwaves?
Those guys who's names this bum dropped: Prove that you're not fools, and prove that you're not racists...
FIRE THIS BUM!
Yes, get rid of IMUS at least on cable TV..and let all his rat "friends" drown in the sinking ship along with him.
This is the theater of absurd "solidarity".
Also haven't heard producer Bernie apologize and he is VILE.
Enough already.
NBC ran the "story" on the Today show.
The only silver lining here is that they can't ignore it, go on an "apology tour" and think it will go away, or just claim insanity.
That crap does not belong on the airwaves.
Imus can take himself and his gross producer and do his "good works" on this ranch- and talk to the cactus.
That's McCarthyism.
Dem02020--like your humor. Imus got go
Awwww. Poor little old rich white men, unable to voice their opinions about the inferiority of minorities without being called on it.
It bweaks my widdle heart.
Whendid he say blacks were inferior?
"Nappy headed hos" is not generally considered to be an equalitarian sentiment.
Use logic. Nappy head refers to hair texture. Hos in this casereferred to toughness, which
Sorry, accidental send:
Use logic. Nappy head refers to hair texture. Hos in this casereferred to toughness. Hos are tough. It was a comedic improv that went wrong. Listen to his explanation, and look at his deeds to see that h did not slander an entire race, nor anyone based on their race.
"Hos" are prostitutes. If I called your daughter, or your mother, or anyone you cared about a "ho," would you think I was calling them "tough?"
He means tough as in rough as in biker-chick tough.
"Use logic."
How is calling a young woman a prostitute not offensive? If he wanted to call a college athlete "tough," there are a whole range of adjectives he could have used without reaching for "nappy-headed ho."
He was trying to be offensive. I don't know if you are a sports fan and know who Dennis Rodman is but the Rutgers women had alot of tatooed Rodman lookalikes. He could have said freak show circus-like but he went with hos. It was offensive, but then Imus is a pretty offensive human being. That's his gig.
I know who Dennis Rodman is/was, but again, he didn't say they look like men who like to cross-dress, he didn't compare them to biker chicks, he didn't call them "tough." He called them "nappy-headed hos."
You are - of course - free to be perfectly fine when white men use black dialect to call young black athletes prostitutes with bad hair. I am, similarly, free to find it offensive.
So you're admitting that Imus's shtick is to say the sort of things most people would get... oh, I dunno... FIRED for?
It's not offensive because he obviously doesn't think they are prostitutes. Its absurd on the one hand, metaphor on the other, unpopular comedy. Did Larry Flynt really think Jerry Falwell had sex with his mother in a portapotty, or did his Hustler ad, taken to the supreme court really make anyone believe Jerry did that?
Did you actually just say that you think he seiously said they are prostitutes? Lighten up everybody. And be proud of your nappy hair, all you blacks out there. There's really nothing wrong with it. There was a time when nappy was in. Now its out. No reason to be self-conscious when a white man points it out on some people. Be offended when you aren't paid as much for the same job. When you are excluded by landlords from affluent neighborhoods regardless of your credit history. Be offended when someone complains that you reporoduce too much compared to whites. Don't be hurt when we make reference to your hair texture or appearance. You may not be different from whites inside, but you ARE different from whites on the outside.
Did you actually just say that you think he seiously said they are prostitutes? Lighten up everybody. And be proud of your nappy hair, all you blacks out there. There's really nothing wrong with it. - Just because someone doesn't mean something literally doesn't mean they didn't mean it at all. And I suspect if he was talking about an individual's hair, you'd have a point, but as is, he was calling them (literally or figuratively) prostitutes in conjunction with that description of their hair. Kind of shows what Imus thinks about "nappy hair", doesn't it?
Be offended when you aren't paid as much for the same job. When you are excluded by landlords from affluent neighborhoods regardless of your credit history. Be offended when someone complains that you reporoduce too much compared to whites. Don't be hurt when we make reference to your hair texture or appearance. - Great, I'm sure black America will be so happy you complied this list of How to be Offended, you pasty-faced moron. Which I didn't mean literally and references your appearance, so it's perfectly okay. Moron.
Hos in this casereferred to toughness. Hos are tough. - jeshopk
Would you send your son to Jeff Gannon Boot Camp?
You tell him to use logic then stretch logic far past the breaking point to appologize for Imus' racism.
So after 100's[or could it be 1000's] of racist statements, slurs, & smears everyone is suddenly on Imus's case?
Geez, what took them so long??
So I guess this means politicians from BOTH parties will avoid appearing on Imus's program? Yeah, we'll see...
Side Note:
Now IF Olbermann doesn't name Imus *Worst Person In The World* tonight, what will the excuse be?
And if he doesn't, will MMFA go on promoting Keith?
Stay tuned.
"Now IF Olbermann doesn't name Imus *Worst Person In The World* tonight, what will the excuse be?"
-----
That he doesn't take programming tips from Jeter2?
Dear EASY:
If you think what you wrote qualifies as a "refutation", then of course you think it is easy! Reality check suggested.
Dear JETER:
You called into question KO's accountability. On a related matter, did you also notice that the MMFA article from yesterday (Sunday) was not signed, but just attributed to "MMFA staff"? I know that in the past you have noted who wrote particular MMFA articles: I do not recall ever having seen an unsigned one before, but I do not read them all and may have missed this. Your take?
To all:
I think Imus has finally reached his tipping point, and even some of his MSNBC cohorts may start to disassociate themselves from him.
Missouri,
To be honest while I do often take note of whom an article is attributed to here, I don't always notice. However I don't think an article credited to the entire MMFA staff is anything nefarious or odd. And it could have happen before.
As far as Easy goes, I generally ignore his/her posts and once suggested he/she change their moniker here to : Couldn't Refute A Point Or Add Anything Substantive To A Debate If I Tried
Olbermann & MSNBC could go a long way in showing some balls & integrity by bestowing one of Keith's Worst Person In The World awards to Imus. Or even just covering it like everyone else seems to be doing. Perhaps they will, we'll see.
The excuse offered up here by many is that Keith can't name another employee of MSNBC to this *award* because his bosses won't allow it.
Lame excuse of course. This makes Keith is just another cherry-picker. And MSNBC & Olbermann no better than Fox & O'Reilly.
How Imus has managed to get away with his disgusting shtick all these years without the uproar that we're [finally] seeing is curious.
"Couldn't Refute A Point Or Add Anything Substantive To A Debate If I Tried"
-----
I've done it many times. Quite often the wingnuts in question aren't worth refuting, as they post the same lies over and over after being proven wrong time and time again.
Perhaps you should change your handle to "Trapped on a high horse, and too busy looking down my nose to see the truth."
Ok Easy, what TRUTH did I miss?
Go ahead and Refute what I wrote about Olbermann & MSNBC.
My guess is IF you could, you would have done so already.
Are you are trying to divert the conversation away from the disgusting remarks made by Imus and make it about Keith O?
Not that I'm accusing you of this Jeter, but it is a common GOP ingore the man behind the curtain tactic.
Jeter,
Thanks for replying. I did not mean to imply that "MMFA staff" as the author was nefarious. I was puzzled by it, especially since the topic is tame, unlikely to bring about the vile and threats that have been directed toward various female bloggers. If it had been a very controversial topic, I could understand the group-block mentality.
As to EASY, I like your Couldn't Refute A Point Or Add Anything Substantive To A Debate If I Tried suggestion.
Rather than think that Olbermann is following his boss's orders in not calling out his colleagues, I think of him more like one of those infomercial interviewers, only prepared to ask fawning questions of his guests. His "exclusive" inteview with serial liar and former ambassador Joe Wilson was one of these. Has he ever said a negative comment about anyone who actually might be in the same building at the time?
"Reality check suggested."
-----
Reality checked. Mine is OK. Yours is warped.
Wow, it IS easy!
I think I beat that dead horse last week. Olbermann wont mention Imus unless Imus is canned from MSNBC. Then Imus will be in the ranks of "Worst Person in the World"
Keith did mention Imus and he did say that he (Keith) made a conscious decision to NOT appear on his show. I think that says a lot.
I don't think Olbermann can really attack those who work at MSNBC. If he could he would've fried Tucker Carlson's pompous ass a long time ago on his "Worst Person In The World" list. The fact that he hasn't went after Carlson who've made countless remarks that were dumb, speaks a volumes to me that he's prohibited at attacking fellow co-workers.
The only thing I can imagine is, as someone else suggested last week, that Imus and Olbermann are friends in real life.
Letterman was in a somewhat similar situation way back when after Marv Albert bit some Dominatrix escort or something in some peculiar sex romp. Dave notably did NOT make any references or jokes about the incident until the legal aftermath passed. And even then, he didn't joke about Albert, but knew that because of their friendship, he [Letterman] would be the one who would get the first interview. And he was. (This was a relatively short time after Hugh whatshisface got busted with a streetwalker and got Leno his highest rated interview to date.)
I don't see this paying off for Olbermann in any way, though. If it's friendship, then it must simply be some sort of misplaced respect for Imus that Olbermann is acting on. At the very least, he should have invited Imus onto his program to apologize or re-apologize, in much the same way that Letterman let Michael Richards apologize via a Jerry Seinfeld interview.
I just think it's laughable that someone like Fineman can sit there and excuse such a nasty, sexist, racially-charged comment by simply suggesting, "[...] Some of the stuff that you used to do, you probably can't do anymore." And I know I'm going to sound like a Right Winger when I say this (and Lord knows I hate to sound anything like them), but had this been Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity who've said "nappy-headed hos," Fineman and other Imus butt-kissers opinion would be different. Thank you Media Matters for highlighting this, because if it wasn't for MMFA, Imus comment would've never hit the mainstream media.
But my main beef isn't with Imus, since I honestly think he regrets what he said, it's with Bernie McJerk, and it was HE who first used the word "hos" to describe them girls. Yet no one in the mainstream media is putting the spotlight under Bernie when they should. You can bet that he doesn't feel a damn thing in how how his words hurt those when calling them "rough hos".
Thank you Preston - I was wondering if anyone else realized the sexism involved in Imus' comment.
My letter to Verizon is in the mail today. I would like to take Imus at his word but actions speak louder than words. I suggest Imus agree to ban Sid Rosenberg from his show forever. Sid is obviously something of an enabler for Imus's worst tendancies.
Imus and Mr. Rosenberg do not spread thier vitriole evenly. Maybe Imus should call his favorite politician Joe Lieberman a money grubbing Jew, or introduce Tim Russert as an Irish potato farmer (best I could do) or maybe Imus should just put the racial comments in the closet where they belong. We certainly have enough on our plate in this country that we don't need racial epitaphs mixed in with our sports.
Lastly, I would like to relay what was most hurtful to me about Mr. Imus and company's comments and that is that I have a young daughter, about 5 and I took her to a RU girls game this season. I have to admit I waxed whimsically about her perhaps one day playing basketball at the collegiate level. She has demonstrated some interest in the sport and while it is just a dream what if later in life she's on the fence about playing and this kind of comment were to rear its' ugly head again. Does she cave to the peer pressure that basketball is not a feminine enough sport? As a young black girl who will already be dealing with isuues of positive self image, does she wave off the opportunity to play in favor of something better associated with grace and beauty? What a waste that would be.
Thanks again MMFA for not letting this slip by. It would go unnoticed by the public at large but nonetheless permeate our public conciousness and perpetuate the sterotypes we so desperately need to get past.
Best regards to all.
I know what you mean by this. I have a teenage daughter who plays high achool basketball and she already has to deal with the not fitting the pre-concieved idea of "prom queen" Sometimes she is treated less as a girl and often referred to as a "dike" because she is usually coming from practice or a game and is wearing athletic gear and no makeup. It like she has to fit this stupid sterotype of what girls are supposed to be. My daughter isn't one to spend alot of time daily worring about her looks but right now she is just 13 and I worry how comments like that will affect her as she gets older.
I suppose I'm the only one who thinks this MMFA headline is a bit misleading. I don't read where Fineman ever endorsed what Imus passes off as "humor" as being "okay", only that the stuff Imus has passed off as "humor" in the past wouldn't get him fired in the past. By that standard it was okay. But now it probably has gotten him fired (eventually probably soon).
I don't see a problem with the title because if there WAS no uproar over his remarks, that is like saying it is ok by general acceptance... and, seriuosly, you have to quit not seeing the forest for the trees... Imus is a racist a-hole who needs to go, ya' know?
I'm not defending Imus, I'm defending Fineman. This thread is about what Fineman said to Imus which I think MMFA is misrepresenting. Imus will get his.
Well, if he felt Imus had done something wrong, don't you think he would have said that? Instead he blames "the times," as if all this 'treating people with respect and dignity' stuff is just a fad that will pass, like hula hoops.
I think he's pointing out that times have changed for the better and Imus' shtick won't play anymore.
He may be, Bruce. He may be. I really can't read the man's mind. To me, though, the whole "we're part of the gang" tone of the conversation sounded rather more like commiseration than criticism.
Don't you think it is prejudice of you to say that Imus is racist?
What are you talking about?
I am saying that it is prejudice to think that when a man says "Nappy Headed Ho" he is a racist.
Any white that uses that term to describe blacks is racist by definition. I'm so sorry you can't see that.
Under your definition, Hillary is a racist for making a ghandi joke.
White person making Indian jokes = racist.
Yes, I thought that was a stupid, racist joke.
Well, do you even know what racist MEANS? It means the belief that your race is superior. How does making a joke about Ghandi or a basketball team indicate anything about what the joker thinks of racial equality?
Simple: by degrading (a) member(s) of another race(s), you imply that yours is superior. Racism through the disrespect of other races.
It is not reason to say that if someone puts down a member of a race that they are putting down the whole race. I don't agree that Imus intended to put the team down other than comedically, but if he did, he wasn't also putting down all blacks.
Likewise with Kramer. He took the N word and used it for his own purposes against 2 hecklers, not an entire race. I see why that one is more easily misunderstood, but he's not a racist for using the N word in order to insult some hecklers.
We, as a society, need to realize that use of language is highly personal. We should learn what people mean with their use of language, not judge based on what we think they mean.
IF either one had degraded those people specifically in a way that was SPECIFIC to THEM not the entire race you would have a point. They didnt, and YOU DONT. He didnt disparage their grades he called them nappy headed ho's. There isnt any way to claim that wasnt racist and your attempts to do so are laughable at best
" I don't read where Fineman ever endorsed what Imus passes off as "humor" as being "okay",
Nor does MMFAs headline accuse him of saying it's okay or of endorsing it. How is the headline misleading?
MMFA makes a judgement that the comments are racist.
They should have said controversial comments. But then,
they are out to paint Imus -- a Kerry voter -- as a racist.
I dont care WHO he voted for. He is being painted as a racist for his racist comment. If it quacks like a duck....
So is Howie Fineman's cell phone number common knowledge? Listeners can just call him up, hey? I'd like to call him and tell him he sounds like a fawning idiot here. A "teaching moment", gag.
Since Imus "apologized", I doubt Obie will cite him in his Worse, Worser, etc..
the headline is definatly mis-leading. shame on MMFA. As for what was actually said, i mean its just a friend trying to defend another friend. I think IMUS regrets it, i think he honestly thought he was being humorous and that he just took it too far. There are times in peoples lives that they can be politically incorrect and ignorant, it doenst mean that we are really feeling those things deep down. IMUS bad moment came on the radio though, so it impacts more people. Personally the guy is just trying to be a shock jock funny guy, and i doubt he means 90% of anything he says because off the show he seems like a generally good person. I mean come on he was howard stern before howard stern people. now on tv and syndicated though, prob should be more careful and just focus on white christians so that nobody gets all upset about it.
You are what you say you are, please spare us all this "Im sure he doesnt REALLY feel like that DEEP DOWN" crap. Don Imus has made a very good living for years dishing out offensive, ignorant garbage, and politicians from both parties, not to mention "journalists" like Fineman, have enjoyed the clubby, exclusive atmosphere of his show for a generation. Yes, there are people who say much worse- and they deserve (and get) criticism as well. But Im so sick of hearing professional hate-mongers defended as "good people ON THE INSIDE" who "are just carrying out an act," etc. etc.
I frankly dont care if Imus is just playing a big joke on us, or he really is a bigoted, ignorant moron. He and his band of idiots spew hate over the public airwaves, and they deserve to be slapped down for doing it. Not complicated at all.
I don't care 'what he really means', or not; he called women nappy headed hos on NATIONAL MEDIA, he deserves to get fired. If you say this kind of crap to peoples' faces, you get punched out, and deservedly so.
Imus- and company NO EXCUSE
Please this is not about being p/c- or expressing a opinion. What Imus and company said and did was a nasty sexist and racist stereotype that was meant to degrade and "make fun of".
But that kind of nasty racist sexist comment has led to so much worse than bigotry , to out and out violence and hate. Imus is broadcast on MSNBC- a major cable network- and frequently has major pols and pundits on his show.
He needs to be done now.
I heard his apology. Went on for a very long time this morning. I heard his interview with Fineman which was really stupid. There is no exucse at any time for what Imus said about the young women Rutgers Basketball players. He himself said there was no excuse. He just makes "fun of everyone."
This isn't making "fun of". He should be fired ASAP. I'm sure he'll find "life" on the radio. And he's groveling big time to save himself.
He's been a train wreck for a long time.
That has always been the problem in my opinion with MSNBC carrying this program and having this hater in its studios. They are as responsbile as CBS radio. I find it deplorable that they tried to pawn it off on CBS Radio and WFAN. Imus needs to be held accountable for this racist comment. If he is not fired then the word on the street is that it is ok for a old dry drunk to spew hate because he helps kids with Cancer. He has been a ticking time bomb , him and his hateful crew.
For all of the scandal and outrage that people are venting I ask you if this is even one tenth as bad as what rappers say on their albums and in the press. Not that Imus did not cross the line but why this and why now. He and Bernard are always saying stuff that hammers everyone. If you listen to the show you know it is satirical humor.
Unlike the far right wing media (Ann Coulter or Mark "The Moron" Levin anyone) who has said things that truely are racist about black voters and their choices. No one makes a big deal about our democratic leaders being called morons, killers, liars, etc.
Yawn. Here we go again, "If the rappers are saying it why can't Imus and McJerk?" Sorry, but that ain't cuttin' it with me, especially since there have been many black leaders, scholars, journalists, pop critics, etc, that condemned rappers and their sexist, homophobic, anti-establishment material. You make it sound as if there hasn't been a single person from the black community that voiced their distaste regarding mainstream gangsta rap (I italicized mainstream since underground rap is far more socially-conscious and less pandering to suburban white teenagers). Hell, that’s all black neo-conservatives such as Stanley Crouch and John McWhorters write about is mainstream rap and how its damaging black youth. I guess you don't remember when gangsta rap became commercially dominating in the music scene and politicians were attacking it (e.g., Ice T and his “f*ck the police” diatribe). Once again I cite Gore Vidal when he coined the term “United States of Amnesia”.
And you may call some of the stuff Bernard McJerk does “satire,” but he’s a vile, sick, disgruntled racist in my opinion. I’ve watched the show for a while now and it’s usually McJerk that makes me change the channel; it’s usually McJerk who aires out his hatred for anything that’s black, while Imus gives him free rein to do so. Please, there’s too much disdain and smugness in McJerk’s jokes about blacks that I can label as satire. Sacha Baron Cohen, Stephen Colbert, Jon Stewart, Howard Stern, Don Rickles, Sarah Silverman, etc., is first rate satirist whose material possess irony and intelligence; Bernard’s is just pure, reactionary ignorance. And he should know better since he grew up around predominately blacks.
Preston you miss my point. As i said I am not saying what Imus said is not over the line. But the outrage and calling for him to be taken off the air is a an over reaction. Anyone who has listened to the show knows that Bernard and Sid are outragous and act ignorant- it's an act. Just like Sacha Baron Cohen or Stephan Colbert playing the characters they have played.
In the end, as with rap, one either listens or one doesn't. Imus has had more positives contributions to the world than negative. I just think people are making too much of this...especially given the reference to Spike Lee's movie where this "line" originated.
Well, I do agree with about the whole march that media-clowns like Sharpton and Jackson are planning. They're making too much of a stink out of this. Sadly, whatever those two do in public reflects badly on the entire black community, because people are under the impression that Sharpton and Jackson are our leaders and spokesmen. Then I'll have my white college classmates telling me that we black people are "too-sensitive" and blow things completely out of proportion because these two are taking up entire hours of CNN programing just to be in the spotlight.
Still don’t agree with you about Sid and Bernie being “in character” like a Stephen Colbert and Sacha Baron Cohen. Unlike the latter, neither Sid or Bernie knows the line between making racially-charged but insightful jokes, or just plain stereotypic, crude, third-rate humor that lacks intelligence, grace and irony.
I totally agree with you about Sid and Bernard. I'm hoping they are in character and that does not mean that I condone their brand of humor.
What I like about Imus is that when he interviews people he does not hold back and will ask the hard questions. The other nonsense is his "act" that has gotten him in trouble more than few times. He will be the first one to say he is an A-hole.
If he gets thrown off the radio for this then we have a bigger problem than insensitivity.
By the way I am a 52 year old white guy from Connecticut and I have and will continue to defend the right af anyone to say what they want. However, I have gotten into fist fights over people using the "n" word and have cut off relatives who continue to use it to this day.
As to Imus. He is not a racist and his attempt at humor was, as he said, ill conceived.
Imus asks hard questions to people he doesnt care for. He's just as capable of anyone of delivering softballs to guys he supports.
Case in point: Last year he had Senator Rick Santorum on as a guest. Santorum mentioned his opponent, Bob Casey Jr, to which Imus replied "who IS this guy?" Santorum said merely "well, he's the son of a former Governor." "Well, thats just NEPOTISM!" responded Imus.
In the entire interview Casey's position as the twice-elected State Treasurer was not mentioned once. So the listeners were lead to believe that Casey had no real business running for the Senate, he was just trying to capitalize on a famous name.
Imus also let Santorum say "I've been an underdog in every race I've ever been in," which was an absolute joke. Before 2006, Santorum was an underdog exactly twice in his career- when he first ran for Congress, and when he first ran for the Senate. In every other race, he was a prohibitive favorite.
Imus doesnt ask hard questions of everyone. His friends have no problems spewing BS without fear of being called on it by the faux cowboy.
FINEMAN:" .... Because the times have changed. I mean, just looking specifically at the African-American situation."
Is this the new version of "The Negro Problem"?
"Satire" - the new mantra of the right to excuse their anti - pc blathering. Imus' 'satire' is on par with Fox New's sad attempt at comedy.
Or Olberman's nazi salute.
The company i retired from would fire this guy immediatelly, specially with a company logo plastered all over the screen. May be legal ( first ammendment ) , but it is sure immoral.
I'm black, too, Joseph, and being raised mostly in rural Arkansas, I can pretty much tell you that I know a racist when I see or hear one. While I agree that I don't think Imus is racist nor do I think what he said was out of rancor, he should've toned down this type of material a long time ago. When you have one of the country's leading black journalist, Clarence Page, pleading with Imus to tone down the racial jokes and stop playing audio clips of Amos N Andy, yet you still ignore it and continue to push buttons, this was bound to happen.
Again, it's not Imus that I really have a problem with (since I honestly don’t believe deep down inside he’s a stone-cold racist); it's Bernard McGuirk I think is the one who should be called into question. I don't think for one moment McGuirk regrets calling those black girls "hardcore hos" the same as Imus regrets his statement. He's a cold-hearted bastard and it was HE who first threw out the word "ho".
That's strange I replied to Joseph's comment and it went to yours instead, Wolf. Sorry about that.
I Know A Racist When I See One: Imus Is Not A Racist
I am a Black man, and I watched the show in question. In fact, I have watched Imus on many occasions. He's not a racist, and I know the tone he expressed his comments in.
Actually, Imus felt at home with the Black culture enough to say what he did in hopes it would be received as a culturally accepted comment.
Now in schools, the white kids call each other the "N" word in the same spirit Imus was trying to tune into when he mentioned what he did. (Blacks call each other the "N" word out of cultural recognition)
Although the "N" word was not used, my example speaks to the issue at hand: Cultural insensitivity. It came out wrong, but we must not treat it wrongly. He's not sticking by the comments or claiming a right to continue the comments. I don't know him personaly, but I would "cut it up" with him in a heart beat.
Joseph
"Now in schools, the white kids call each other the "N" word in the same spirit Imus was trying to tune into when he mentioned what he did. (Blacks call each other the "N" word out of cultural recognition)"
That's not right either. I'm a 27 year old black male and I never let anyone slide wih that around me (no matter who says it.)
Do I think Imus is a racist on a Micheal Savage level (yeah, I truly think Savage is in fact a racist)? No. That being said just take a look back on this site of all of the stuff he and his pals have said in the past. He's had this coming for a while now.
Thanks for this post! I really appreciate hearing your point of view! It is one not often represented in journalism, since it sort of puts water on the fire, which doen't get ratings.
I have actually been told that I was being racially prejudiced by telling a friend a story and indicating the race of one person involved in the story. I pointed out that it was prejudiced for him to assume I am a racist simply for indicating something about visual appearance in order to make the story more vivid. Eventually, he agreed.
In this case, I think many people are being overtly prejudiced toward Imus based on his idea of comdic word choice. Imus, on the other hand did not show that he believd his race was superior, nor di he show that he was negatively judging anyone based on appearances.
-Jesse
Imus makes a clearly racist statement, we call him on his racism and WE are being prejudice. Are you for real?
It isn't a clearly racist statement. Racism is the belief of superiority of a race over another. Nothing about nappy hair or hos sys anything about that. It's just like saying a "short, fat, bald, stock broker" - only the profession was a metaphor.
The denigration of clearly racial characteristics and aligning them with prostitution IS A CLEARLY RACIST SLUR. None of your weak appologies will change that. He didnt denigrate their basketball playing nor their grades or anything else specific to THEM. He used a racially charged stereotype as a slur. Its racist pure and simple.
The hypocracy is glaring among media power elite that dominate TV/radio, if Imus said ...oh, lets see, Israel was a racist state or lets see, practices aparteid, as jimmy Carter got crucified for, do you think Zucker, Hoffman at CNBC would tolorate his comments for one second. I really doubt Fineman, while he's kibitzing with Zucker or Hoffman care one ioda, that Imus is a racist, other than how it can affect the bottom line, because they LET HIM get away with his bigotry, racism, and sexism for YEARS & YEARS.
That's not right either. I'm a 27 year old black male and I never let anyone slide with that around me (no matter who says it.)
I don't own the "N" word every time it is spoken. My mother named me Joseph. I have been in this world for 51 years, and I have scene Blacks defend themselves every time the word is spoken. If the whites want to call themselves the "N" word, let them. Believe me they could use some cultural reversal, and if I could throw in a little discrimination, for the knowing what it's like, I would.
Joseph
if keith olbermann had integrity he would make don imus his worst person in the world. imus and olbermann work for the same company. i predict olbermann will ignore the story.
The whole controversy is stupid. I really wish more black people would stand up and say that Imus' comments were A-O-K. Nappy just means a type of hair. "H's in this comment, meant "baddass" and "tough". This is not racial sensitivity, it is racial numbness. People are too numb from actual racism to actually be sensitive to realize this was non-racist comment.
Imus doesn't need to prove that he is black-friendly. He has already proven that. Nobody should be fired for saying something that was unintentionally racially offensive, especially when part of the program is a comedy.
If I call your mother a Pasty Faced wh*re, what would your reaction be? Now what if I applied it to your daughters softball team on national television?
Better yet what if someone called you grandmother a hook nosed sl*t?
The fact the black people aren't saying thet the comment is A-OK should be self explanatroy, but you seem a little dense.
MONKNJ80
HERE HERE
So all these outraged people are personal relatives to the team? Wow!
You didn't answer my question.
I just heard Hannity playiing a clip of Imus on Al Sharpton's show. I'm not familiar enough with Imus to say for sure, but it sure did sound like he was trying to talk a little more "black" than I remember his voice sounding.
Not to mention he responded to a comment from Sharpton with "That's jive".If anybody heard this, did it sound like he was doing a little under-the-radar shtick?
Maybe just my ears.
If that’s so then karma is definitely a bitch since he claimed that Hillary Clinton did the same thing at that predominately black church in Selma.
I didn't even think of that Preston- not only Imus, but every right wing radio host and Fox beat that Hillary bit to death. It was a little corny, but she was sort of reading a poem or hymn in dialect, and they hammered her for a week or so.
Imus talks like that on the radio and I assume in his everyday life. He uses tose terms. And if the idiot Sean hannity is saying hes "talking Balck" then that is the ususal far-right nonsense.
And Hillary was reading a poem. That is how it was written. She was not trying to talk "black". That in it self is total nonsense and offensive. The majority of black americans are incredibly well spoken and to say that they all speak as though they were uneducated is just idiotic.
Mod, sorry if I wasn't clear- I thought Imus was affecting his voice a little. And I wasn't criticizing Hillary Clinton's reading, I said it was a little corny, but I understood she was reading some lyrics, I didn't hear it as being patronozing or insulting.I think had she been reading the same thing to a small group, as opposed to a large audience where she had to project more and kick the volume up, it would have come off better.
If Hillary wasn't trying to talk black, what the hell was it?
http://www.ifilm.com/profile/breitbart/video/2829104
She was reading the words to a gospel hymn: "Lord I don't Feel No Ways Tired." You tell me how you say that without sounding like you are "talking Black."
Can't understand why you are being incredibly obtuse on this. Find the text of what Hillory read online, read it out loud and record it, then post it here so we can see how white you sound.
Anytime people are threatened by another group's ascendant power they will make remarks to belittle and disparage that ascendant group. I think that is what happened in this incident and I hope that the women of Rutgers meet with him and eat him for breakfast.
May I say something as a person who is Half-Black myself (and of the "other" half, half of that is American-Indian, making me three-quarters so-called "Minority")? -- These attacks on Mr. Imus are just plain LUDICROUS and DESPERATE! Because they cannot (0r will not) engage in the same rabid unity of conviction to go after the ''REAL'' racists in 'talk radio'-- ''Rash Loudmouth'' and ''Michael Wuss'' --whose racism CLEARLY AND UNAMBIGUOUSLY shows, they opt instead for a "convenient" target who did the in-retrospect foolish thing of telling a slightly insensitive JOKE! Now just to be clear, I am not a fan of Imus (I may become one now, though), and I have heard a few instances of his 'pushing the envelope' by making certain insensitive remarks, but I have heard far worse from the likes of ''Bully O'Liar'', Howard Stern, and my occasional guru Tom Leykis! Even my good friend, Mike Malloy, has said harsher & more controversial things about and in discussion of Blacks, and I have never taken offense! In my opinion, Imus was just channelling ''Lenny Bruce'', and everybody in this overly sensitive "We Are Always Going To Be Victims" chip on their shoulder mindset were just looking for a convenient excuse to flail off at somebody... and Imus seemed to be the most convenient-- and "SAFEST" target to go after! People, LIGHTEN UP before you wind up losing ALL credibility!
"Down With Big Brother" (Ace, in Honolulu)
Oh, F*** you.
He wasn't channelling Lenny Bruce he was being an ass and if you don't see that you never really understood Lenny Bruce. If you look back this isn't the first time either. Limbaugh and the rest have been called out reppeatedly this is just getting more attention for some reason. I do wish the media paid more attention to the rest of the knuckle draggers, but they haven't and here we are. The rest of the trogs have been called out on this sight in particular on many occasions. If you have never taken offense well good for you, but don't dictate what should and should not be offensive to people.
i rest my case. the pity party goes on. calling people knuckle draggers and trogs not to mention the filthy language. even lenny had some restraint but then, he was a white man.
"even lenny had some restraint but then, he was a white man."
Goodness knows us non-whites sure don't have no restraint, right Linda?
simple observation. he died at a very young age because he was a drug using faith filled foundational hippy. lots of people looked up to him. remember the film "lenny", close to forty years ago. nah... that was before your stream of consciousness. oh yeah, that was virginia woolf, right?
Keep talking in circles Linda. Lenny Bruce was not known for his use of restraint in anything he did.
Do you even have any idea what people are talking about when they use the phrase 'pity party'? Your stream of consciousness has long since run dry.
ANOTHER MEMBER OF THE PITY PARTY. YOU INHERITED IT FROM YOUR FAMILY AND IT WILL BE PASSED ON TO THE CHILDREN. WHAT A SAD LEGACY. BY THE WAY, IMUS WAS SUSPENDED, ONLY FOR TWO WEEKS BUT BY THEN THERE WILL BE ANOTHER ISSUE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT. FRANKLY, IMUS SHOULD RETIRE TO THE RANCH AND TAKE CARE OF THOSE HOMELESS KIDS HE SPONSERS. OH YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. IT DOESN'T COUNT ANYWAY. HE'S TOO WHITE.
So your saying that all someone has to do is help a charity and they have cart blanche to say or do whatever they want?
Imus needs to take responsability for his words and actions, just like everyone else does. He is lucky that he got off with just a suspetion, if If 99% of us said something remotly similiar to this at work we would be out of a job.
The only pity I am feeling is for YOU and your lack of higher brain function. Imus was a jerk, used a racist slur is getting called on it. This is how it is supposed to play out.
This is way overblown. I've listened to Imus off and on for years and he is not a racist. He is, however, a misanthropic equal opportunity insult artist. He is not all that expert in the art, but he is well practiced and that is a big part of the shtick of the show. I Hate racism, of the economic sort that Bush, Cheney and Rove practice - but they don't get caught in gaffes like this because they are too busy defrauding and defunding the White middle class. Blacks are so completely off their radar as we saw during Katrina. Anybody remember Katrina? Why not focus your outrage at something useful and at those who are genuinely hurting the black population. Imus regularly invites hateful and insulting comments directed at Himself every day. That is the nature of the shtick of the show. His guests and staff regularly call for his death, in the same spirit that he made this remark. If you had listened/watched to the show, you would know that he routinely calls his wife the "green HO." Was he being racist then? No. So shut up already with your panties in a bunch PC idiocy. This is not like the hate that Rush and Hannity spew daily. The Imus show is mainly about TEASING everyone with occasionally insulting terms. I enjoy most of his show unless he has right wing enablers like Russert, Andrea Mitchell, or God help us, that turncoat Lleiberman. I enjoy the often good natured ribbing on the show and also the bitter invective spewed in a 360 degree arc at nearly everyone, including himself. All the hand wringing and pantie bunching on this comment board is much more revolting than the original slur, which I DO think was over the line and out of bounds, but this piling on is ridiculous. And when does someone have to do the Mel Gibson/Micheal Richards turkey strut with Al Sharpton whenever they say something he doesn't like? I think Imus had guts to go on his show and I listened to his lengthy interminable apology this morning and it was quite heartfelt. It was sad really seeing this guy grovel and crawl on his belly and put on his hairshirt. I had to turn it off after a hour of it. Ridiculously overblown.
"lovethebomb"- interesting opinion and defense of Imus. I couldn't disagree with you more though.
His Schick isn't harmless. That was a racist slur. Period. I'm sure you heard him say there was no excuse for what he said this morning.
Is he the "only one"? Certainly not. But he's definitely does have a responsibility and accountability being on the mostly "fee" public airwaves.
You want to listen to hate speech? Good for you. He's on par with Howard Stern so I'm sure there's a place for him on Sirius radio.
Just think how much more raunchy he can get. What fun.
But does he belong on MSNBC or CBS radio for the masses? I don't think so. Because you know sometimes even being politically correct can be a GOOD thing.
It means your "not making fun" of someone to marginalize and make them "less than". Imagine.
Come on. Why pick on Imus? Charles Barkley insults whites every Thursday on the NBA games. He also never gives whites any credit and continually knocks Steve Nash for winning the MVPs. Black comedians can make fun of whites and Jessie or Al never accuses them of racism. The real racists are Sharpton and Jackson who continually incite blacks by always being the first to accuse the whites. To wit: the Duke Lacrosse scandal which was a blatant use of racism by the woman involved and then by Nifong, so he could get the black vote to elect him. He should pay dearly for ruining the careers of three fine young men. Where's Jessie and Al on this one
3 trolls above... beware...
I'm not a troll you PC clown. I'm probably much farther to the left than you. The right wing propoganda machine relies upon Goebbles-like clamping down upon dissent and undesired speech. Once the public can become enamored of narrowing "acceptable" public speech, even if it begins in a legitimate context, the next step is the total shutdown of dissent and protest. You are ignorant if you don't see this Sharpton gauntlet dance as a primarily RIGHT WING action.
Sure. Cause I know lots of people on the "left" who use terms like "PC clown..."
To LovetheBomb, Linda and all of the rest of you that are here to defend Imus.
We can debate the "nappy" comment all day long, but the fact remains that every single woman on that basketball team regardless of her color deserves to be treated with more respect. These young black woman are doing exactly what our society has been encouraging them to do, study, work hard, and try to make something of yourself. If you want to argue that Imus isn't racist fine, lets assume that he isn't racist. Don't you think these young black woman face enough obstacles in life from racists and our society in general? We should be signing their praises and putting them on a pedestal, not degrading them.
I will get my panties out of a wade when you people pull your heads out of your ass. I should just lighten up and ignore all of the historical facts about the hardship that woman and black people faced because you think it's funny to call someone a nappy ho? We keep telling minorities and woman to "pull themselves up by their boot straps" and when they do exactly that you have the audacity to come here to defend some rich white guys right to call them nappy headed whores, just so he can cash in?
I don't want my nieces to grow up in a country where people think it's funny to degrade successful young woman..
Totally agree, MHK, great post! You saved me the time and effort writing a long response to "LoveTheBomb".
LIKE EVERYONE HERE, YOU TOO ARE A RACIST. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME IS THAT YOU ARE IN DENIAL. ANOTHER PITY PARTY MEMBER. IF YOU READ MY POSTS YOU WILL KNOW I DO NOT APPROVE OF IMUS' COMMENT. THAT'S OKAY I HAVE ALREADY ADMITTED TO BEING A RACIST I'M SIMPLY NOT IN DENIAL ABOUT IT.
Actually Linda I can read your comment just fine thanks. Your first post was insinuating that people were making a big deal out of nothing. Once you got called to the carpet for it you've changed your tune. I
Since you know nothing about the people on this site or if they habor racist views or are in denial I suggest that you stick to speaking for yourself.
Please turn off your cap lock, your posts make you look like a raving lunitic.
mhk: i don't insinuate anything. i base my opinions about a poster on what a poster says. just like any other conversation only we always have the opportunity to revisit the orginal comment here. this entire conversation is about how angry the black community is over what some nit wit radio personality said. so what. he was suspended for two weeks. so what. he will not be fired at least not based on this comment. during the two week period he will be inundated with calls to jump ship. he has two whole weeks to make a fat deal with another station. he will probably stay put but with a raise so he doesn't leave. get over it or call verizon and try to get them to yank his sponsorship. that won't happen either. am i happy with this brand of justice? no but i realize the difference between an achievable goal and a cause that i can overcome on a personal level. frankly, we can only control what we do or say. we come into this world alone and we will leave alone.
not one poster here capable of calling me on the carpet. i suppose that's why i don't shrink at your racist comments.
"WOW! WHAT HAPPENED TO FREEDOM OF SPEECH? ANOTHER PITY PARTY. LETS ALL GET OUR PANTIES IN A BUNCH OVER SOMETHING. WHY NOT? WE CAN CAN'T WE?"
Here is you very first post on this topic today Linda. If you didn't agree with Imus and his comments then why were the first words you typed a defense of his derogitory comments towards these women?
What are you rambling on about my racist comments? You don't make any sense and I'm starting to wonder if you all there upstairs?
Linda, people have to get up for work in the morning. Those red states need their welfare, and someones got to pay for it..You've done enough damage to yourself that no more arguing with you was necessary. Good Night.
Interesting posts, Linda.
However, it would be appreciated if you could supply us with a wee bit more information on the most intriguing thing that you have thus far held court on. What exactly is the Pity Party? I hesitate to bother you on this point, but I have thus far been unable to find out anything else about it, even after googling it. Who heads the Pity Party? What is their position on the war? Where do they come down on Global Warming?
I'd like to know more about it. You've named several intelligent & thoughtful posters on this site as being members, & that has inspired me to also want to join. When & where do they meet? Are there dues involved?
Help me out here, Linda.
mescal: the pity party members include: any person who continues to insist that they have been wronged by virtue of being born black. instead of being proud, not to the point of superiority, of their heritage they want to continue to punish those who have done nothing to them. the dues are paid at any moment when a black person agrees that the ENTIRE black community has been abused. this is simply not the case. the black community have the SAME OPPORTUNITY to pursue a full life as long as they are not tainted with this feeling that they are less likely because they are black. i do not ascribe to the white guilt. so many people do in public. like the racists, they keep their true feelings private. imus is a nitwit. period. as far as my position on the police action in iraq, congress should limit the funding so that the idiot president gets the message of who is in control. this is the only option available to congress as far as control is concerned. i don't know what the pity partys' position is on the war but i suspect they are just as unhappy about the loss of 3200+ young lives for what reason we don't know for sure. global warmng? it's real but until the residents of this globe feel the pinch, they will continue to contribute to the problem. i include myself in that mess. that's my opine. again i don't know what the pity party thinks about global warming. i am not a member nor would i join if i could. very negative and a bad influence on our black youth. you may not agree with me and that's ok because we are lucky enough to be able to speak what we feel without danger of being beheaded. God Bless America.
So either black people ignore idiots like Imus using racial slurs against them or they are by your definition part of some pity party? Yeah, its ok that people treat you as if you with contempt. Dont stand up for yourself or linda will accuse you of joining a pity party. Its ok for white jerks to use racial slurs but its WRONG for people to be offended by them. Your entire proposition is ludicrous on the face of it.
Sorry Linda.
I didn't understand that you were also humor-impaired. I'll do my best to avoid irony in all future replies, so as not to rub your nose in it.
If I'm not mistaken, "pity party" is a 12 step/ AA catch-phrase.
I am not a racist. Your projection is your own. Your weird obsession with the term pity party is pathetic. Your posts make no sense. Try us again when your mind altering substances wear off.
MHK, BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO!!!
I could not have expressed my own feeling any better.
No. I do not think that the black basketball women should be treated any better than anyone else. I do not believe they have to put up with a lot of adversity.
So what are your saying then? That we should call all women's basketball teams whores?
All women deserve to be treated with respect. What I'm trying to point out to you is that these woman are doing exactly what society has been asking them to do and instead of congratulating them we are having a debate about why people shouldn't be calling them nappy haired whores,
If you think that the average black woman doesn't face more adversity in life then average America then your in some serious denial my friend.. Linda's comments about a 'pity party' couldn't be more off base. In the face of adversity these woman are not having a pity party.. They have been trying to better themselves and doing a pretty good job at that. Yet we still have people like Imus that manage to degrade their accomplishments by calling successful young black women nappy haired whores.
You say "treated better than anyone else" as if treating them with respect and common decency was somehow unfair. And black women don't face adversity? Are you on drugs?
I watched the clip and read the transcript. What I find telling is Imus' attempt to turn the discussion by saying no black leader called him when he was doing a show about sickle cell.
Imus, what does that have to do with your incredible bigotry?
You aren't sorry about what you said. You're just sorry you got caught!!!
I am appalled that this man is given a forum to spew his hatred to all and sundry. If he wants to be like this let him go to satellite or the internet. The public airways shouldn't carry this crap.
Imus has bragged about his sponsorship by Verizon communications. If you want to hit him where it hurts call, write, or e-mail Verizon to let them know how you feel about their sponsorship of the "Imus In The Morning Show ." Money Matters.
Verizon customer relations 1800-483-7988, meidia relations, 212-321-0500. Ivan Seidenberg, CEO 140 West Street, NY,NY 10007 floor 23.
just staying in the lane but looking in the rear view mirror.I think this is going to put the other code talkers on fox and other stations that think they can say anything about anybody or another group of people on notice.
just staying in the lane but looking in the rear view mirror.I think this is going to put the other code talkers on fox and other stations that think they can say anything about anybody or another group of people on notice.
“Racist comments aren't OK any more like they used to be”...Are you kidding me? When have comments like the ones Mr. Imus and his co-workers were making ever OK? Oh, excuse me Mr. Finemann Unless you are referring to the comfort of certain men’s clubs where you are given the fancy white smoking jackets with the hoods to match. I can not believe that it is 2007, and we are having this debate. Not only should Mr. Imus loose access to the general public, but there should be a monetary fine paid to the United Negro college fund. The more African American CEO’s we have the fewer incidents like this we will have to deal with. I would now like to address every African American Man, Woman and Child reading this response. Let this be our final warning. NO more supporting any industry or association that would dare use the “N” word, call Black women outside of their names, teach our kids that the there are only three ways to a better life, sports or the music industry or dealing drugs. It is time we started telling our children Smart and valuable they are to society. They are gifted artist, mathematicians, doctors, lawyers, dancers, poets, CEO, inventors. How many of you reading this article hold one of these positions? Now, how many of you mentor someone in your family be it your child, cousin or your next door neighbor to do the same thing or better. When did we stop wanting better for our children? Since when is what I have is good enough for you? Stop supporting these “artist” who promote this belief and glorify negative behavior from our children. I challenge us to start in our own homes. What are our children watching, listening to and yes even wearing. We should be teaching them to look to God for their examples of right and wrong, not American idols and sports heroes. To the sponsors, and powers that be I hope that you can look forward to a letter campaign the likes of which have not been seen in years. For those to busy starting to mentor, use the cell phone on the way to work, lunch or home; just let your voice be herd that we are not going to stand for politically correct racism.In closing, I just hope I am not the only one who is angry about this.
Amen, Rita, amen! I agree with you 100 %, and this is coming from a brother that's getting his edmucation!
I watch Imus in the Morning on a fairly regular basis and more often then not find his and his crews humor childishly cruel but I will give him credit for standing up like a man and apologizing. I hope that he has learned a lesson long over due because he does and has brought a lot of issues to the forfront that many in the media have chosen to ignore.
good luck Imus
philip
As a black poster stated earlier, the double standard in the black community is well deserved. The disgusting gangsta rap "artists" who make a killing selling mysogyny, sexism, rampant lurid materialism and reverse racism are AOK because, after all, they are only infecting young minds, wheras Imus' demographic is old white farts who already think they way he does. So, by all means, pile on Imus as he is really hurting blacks right? However, I do get the argument that blacks have the right to be as offensive as they want to each other. I am fine with that. In fact, I am fine with just about anything if done in a teasing spirit - EXCEPT for right wing hitlerites like Coulter. I am willing to be a hypocrite and enjoy a "well deserved double standard" when it comes to bringing down a fascist monster like horse face Annie because since Reagan, Gingrich and esp lil Georgie, the right has enjoyed a consequence and accountability free reign of anti-democratic anti-constitutional devestation which makes Katrina look like a light mist. So I will rail and cry for Coulter's firing when she calls Edwards a "f--got," but not Imus, because he puts on a lot of liberal/left voices that would otherwise NEVER get heard unless you listen to "preach to the choir" Air America. Imus puts on a right wing dibits like Russert, but I just change the tuner. Those who care about truth and justice and equality know that Imus, for one thing, cares about the "troops" much more than this sick administration with a constant drumbeat about Walter Reed and raised 50 million for the Intrepid rehab center and has funded numerous charities which benefit blacks, specifically those children afflicted with sickle cell anemia. Yes, this remark was over the line, but you have to look at the big picture. This comment had no POLITICAL motive and consequence which cannot be said about all the homophobic and racist slurs spewed by Limpballs, Hannity and the Faux netework daily - all of which are designed to hurt democratic/left positions and personalities. Those remarks are the ones which bear monitoring and protesting because of the underlying republican/right wing effort to put in place their neofascist neofeudal theocratic perpetual war machine funded by the lower and middle class. If one is in a tizzy to get kerflekt about an insensitive remark, it would do well to understand the political facist/theocratic/oligarchical/plutocratic design behind it and condemn it accordingly as part of the grand design and plan to install a permanent right wing fiefdom. What Imus did was unfortunate, but almost nothing in comparison to what this administration and right wing propoganda noise machine does daily. Get your priorities straight and understand who the real enemy is. This overblown reaction gives fodder to the right wing to decry "liberals" as being a bunch of hysterical ninnies - and in this case, they would be right. Fight the POWER, not cadaverous has-beens whose show is a tease/insult shtick.
JUST IN. Imus to be suspended for two weeks starting next week.4/15/07
JUST IN, Imms is suppened
JUST IN, IMMS GOT FIRED
Easy Bob.
Val, I'm literally crying from laughing.concise and debilitating.
Fineman is absolutely right in this case. Political corectness in this country is out of control. You can't say anything controversial anymore without someone scolding you and calling you a racist and so forth. It really is scary indeed that the far left in this country is so intent on limiting free speech in so many aspects. Liberals used to support free speech in this country, but many on the far left are now adamently opposed to free speech. This website is the main leader of the anti-free speech movement. There should probably be a different name for these kind of liberals, because classic liberals actually support free speech. Maybe they should be called Neo-liberals. Their brand of political correctness and their opposition to free speech rights is almost fascist like. It's scary and very different from traditional liberalism. Let's hope that the far left never comes to power in this country, and free speech rights will still be the norm in this country.
Rino
Your arguments are lazy as this isn't a free speech issue. Imus can take his little vacation and call black women nappy headed whores till his heart content.
I'm wondering why you think it ok to call succesfull woman nappy haired whores for entertainment?
I'm not saying it's ok. I'm just saying that this is what Imus does. He's a shock jock. He says things that are controversial. It's who he is and what he does. MSNBC knew this when they hired him. I don't really understand the big uproar over this, considering that Imus says things like this all the time. And also, I don't get the racist aspect to all this. I would certainly be offended if someone called my mother or sister or someone close to me a ho, but I don't see what's racist about it. His remarks were insensitive and stupid, but not racist in my opinion. Ho is a term that can describe both black and white women. The majority of women on the Rutgers basketball team just happened to be black. I don't think Imus even thought about this when he made his comment. Imus didn't even refer to race in his comments.
Rhino
Would you agree that people need to be held responsable for their words and actions? Imus crossed a line and now he is being held to account for his actions. What do you think would happen if you or I went to work called a co-worker a nappy ho?
I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt on the race issue, but the fact is if he support young black woman then he should understand how hard these young girls had to work to make it to the place that they are right now. That's what we want right? Don't you think they deserve more respect then that?
Its not ok its just what he does. By that logic we shouldnt arrest burglars, I mean its not ok but its what they DO so why bother weeding them out of society, or doing anything to make the point ITS WRONG.
It is absolutely ok. It's not like he said it to their face. GWB is "successful", right? I hate the man, but he is the president of the US! WOW! Does that mean I can't call him a turd? Actually, that is a bad example, because Imus wasn't even expressing any negative feelings about the players. Calling Bush a turd comes from my low opinion of him.
He called them nappy headed ho's but wasnt expressing any negative feelings for them?????? Please tell me you are joking.
Yeah, Rino, like the way they don't let you post , so we never get to read your brilliant insights.
(pssssst... just kidding. you actually just posted your thoughts with complete freedom ,barring obscenity, on this site, rendering your entire post a senseless lie .)
To all concerned.Shortly after I posted Imus being suspended I went to eat dinner and had left the post page up,my grandson got on the computer and posted the two(2) post below my posting of his suspension.I apologise for these mispelled and misrepresented words that he put on the post page
Not a problem, the kids at Linda's house have been doing it all day...
NO MY KEEEDZ ARE ALL GROWED UP. MAYBE YOU SHOULD TRY TO GROW UP AND STOP THIS CRYING LIKE A BABY. AWWW NEVERMIND BABY YOU GET MORE ATTENTION BY CRYING. DO YOU WANT YOUR BINKY?
Wouldn't it be funny if your kids came home and called you a crazy whore?
What's the big deal right?
well, you must be one of the pity party members who resort to filthy language, or better said DEROGATORY epithets. man, where did you grow up. luckily, my children are both adults and unlike you or your siblings they would NEVER refer to their mother as a "ho". maybe crazy sometimes but never the ho word.
XD
Linda,
Take a deep breath, get your finger off the cap lock and re-read what I just wrote.
I didn't call you a crazy ho, I was asking you if it would be alright if your kids came home and called you a crazy ho. My family doesn't use language like that to describe women. It's called having respect for other people. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm gathering from your posts is that your saying that you deserve respect, but the young black woman on that basketball team are another matter?
I,m glad that your "keeds are all growed up"because you sure aren't
Stop it Val !
He didnt say racist. he said you can't talk like that anymore. which is true! Have you ever seen the movie "WATERMELON MAN" ? its an hour and a half of racist rhetoric written and directed by a black man. we all need to stop being such abunch of whiney control freaks and GROW UP!
Yes, I have seen it. And it would not even be considered racist if it starred Daymon Wayans and was made in 2006.
I saw the movie too. Do you guys REALLY not get the difference between satirizing racism itself and making racist slurs for their shock value? In the movie Blazing saddles Gene Wilder hid Cleon Little behind a rock to lure two Klansmen over to them then called them and pulled Cleon out. Cleon then said "where all the white women at?" Was this racist because it showed Klansmen that were going to try to lynch Cleon for talking about white women? Or for making Cleon (who vacillated between very literate speech patterns and vernacular? Of course not the racism was the BUTT OF THE JOKE. You guys have got to be kidding. It isnt even in the same galaxy as racist to make a satire of racism.
You are right on Rhino Hunter (perhaps that is a wrong turn of phrase as one would prefer to be going leftward, but nonetheless). The neofacist left is out of control with it's speech gestapo. I am way to the left of any public figure expect perhaps Bernie Sanders of Vermont, but I detest this night of the long knives/crystalnight brown shirt campaign against anyone who says something out of line. Note I am acknowledging that what Imus said was out of line. But the supression of speech is the ULTIMATE goal of the right. It starts in a legitmate context and then gradually moves to include all dissent and protest. After all, that is hurting the morale of the troops right? We must do everything to support the troops. It is not like they are corporate mercenaries who must do whatever they are told. Our foreign policy must turn upon how the troops may "feel." determined by the media masters. This faux outrage of Imus is ridiculous and absurd. More dangerous, it is at the vangaurd of the right wing speech suppression agenda. Yes, folks, you are working for the neofacist theocratic right wing when you scream and bleat for someone to be fired for an insensitive remark. How about the very powerful facist theocratic evangelical pesudo "christian" political powers like Dobson and Robertson calling for the firing of anyone who uses the "Lord's" name in vain or disrespects a "christian" holiday. After all, remember this IS a christian nation and eventually we must root out the anti christian bigots who sling around "slurs" and "offensive" comments about our "lord" (and by extension themselves). They routinely call for the firing of anyone who is not in line with their authoritarian theocratic agenda.. Wake up and recognize the foolishness of this path you are on. You are the vangaurd of the right wing brown shirts, esp the religious dominionists.
YES GOOD POINT. WE HAVE CHOKED ON A GNAT BUT CONTINUE TO SWALLOW THE CAMELS.
Why do you think it's appropriate or funny to call successful hard working young women nappy hair whores?
I'm actually embarresed by your attempts to protect such diragatory speech on our public air waves with a first amendement argument. Are you really that ignorant of our constituion? Imus can still call black woman whatever diragatory terms he wants and no one has tried to deny him that right. The fact that you don't seem to grasp is that the first amendment doesn't give you the right to host a national radio or television program, MSNBC makes that call.
and msmbc has taken action. they spanked his behind, with pay ofcourse. lets all complain about the weather. we have utterly no control over it but it's nice to have the priviledge to complain.
We OWN the airwaves, they belong to US. If five million people wrote to MSNBC and demanded Imus be fired he would be gone. Your analogy is flawed. It ISNT like the weather we can effect it. Actually we can effect the weather too and have but thats another thread.
I have been an Imus radio listener for nearly, my Gawwwd, 40 years. I even phoned his WNBC show in 1972 and was put on air, doing a half decent Richard M. Nixon impression bragging about how I'd created "Peace With Honor" by invading "Cambodiar". He let me do my thing and then concluded my bit with a "110% American" jingle ripped from a David Frye record album.
Imus parlayed a talented voice, antiestablishment sense of humor and above average intelligence, and eventually discovered he could break out of radio's usual limitations and become much more powerful and influential than a traditional DJ or radio talker by plugging into the D.C. establishment, big time. The deal he patented is that Washington insider bigwigs come on his air to prove to the world how hip and edgy they are, and at key moments to hawk their books, resulting in big $$$$ sales. The quid pro quo is that Imus gets all sorts of fame, deference and respect in high places -- far more than he deserves. He also gets to pontificate and tell you, the listener who's a Good Person (McCain, Lieberman, and Kerry half the time - the half when he's not running). And Imus will also let you know who's a Bad Person (Bill and Hillary and Al Gore - they must have failed to kiss Imus' arse after Bill was elected Pres.). Everyone is either all good or all bad, a la President Chimpy McFlightsuit whom Imus supported in Y2000. Like Dubya, no need to think for yourself; Imus will tell you who's naughty / evil, and who's nice. Imus assures us Joe Lieberman is good, even if his position on Iraq is nuts, so vote for him anyway. (BTW Imus was very pro-war in late '02, despite what he now claims.) Now if you're in the D.C. establishment you had better suck up to this Imus guy, or else you will be labeled uncool, evil, and worse yet, unworthy of sale at Barnes & Noble.
The irony is that Imus himself is not the all-good person he claims to be. He is a classic dry drunk. His humor is typically at the expense of others, without regard to damage done to innocent victims (African Americans, Gays, Jews, Catholics, Muslims), anyone who can be stereotyped. When he and his sidekick McGuirk's racism is directed toward Mayor Nagin, he can get away with it because Nagin deserves critisism. However Nagin deserves critisism for his performance in office, not for his African-American accent or for implied stupidity (or for the devious association of stupidity with ethnic accent). This time, with the Rutgers women, Imus went too far. He associated these Rutgers college student athletes with "hos" on the basis of their race and ethnic hair styles.
I have listed to Imus for nearly 40 years, and I have finally had enough. Take him off the air, or I change stations. Immediately!
Sorry for the sp critisism = criticism duh!!!
this is not the bushman country of africa where the tribes are killing eachother. why are you people so dissatisfied with being in america? NONE OF YOU WERE EVER A SLAVE IN THIS COUNTRY. if you don't like it here, leave. you expect every person in america to embrace the "white guilt" that you keep spewing on behalf of your dead ancestors. like any other american, you've had a free education, probably have jobs, a home, food, electricity, running water, warm clothes, cars, vacations, libraries where you can read anything available in the free world, hospitals that have some of the finest doctors in the world, computers so you can peruse the net, the list goes on and on. and the rest of the world is jealous. go figure.
Linda
If ignorance, stupidity, & arrogance were virtues, you would be well on your way to sainthood. To say that if black people feel any unhappiness as a result of racism they should leave their country puts you in Lester Maddox territory. Why should THEY leave, when they've contributed so much to our nation & our culture? If any American subset has EARNED the right to kvetch about the injustice & intolerance that they've faced, it's African Americans.
You talk about those material 'advantages' that they enjoy here as if they were your gift to them... that they aren't showing you sufficient gratitude. You make it abundantly clear that you are completely uninterested in hearing minorities discuss the bigotries & prejudices that they face. In fact, you go so far as to declare Barrack Obama a racist... naturally neglecting to cite a single example of this alleged racism. This is a tactic of the neocon: to deny the existence of any white racism (except among liberals) & to instead claim that all racism emanates out of minority communities. It is a despicable & grotesquely dishonest tactic.
Your posts are merely a series of bad jokes.
Get a freakin' clue!
mescal: i answered your questions honestly. apparently you did not like my answers or perhaps i should have had them interpreted into swahilli. you see, i am not afraid to admit to being a racist but you are or, just guessing, you're in a moment of denial. i forgive you even if you don't forgive me. by the way, i did not hear the n word until i was fifteen years old. that's when i attended a highschool with seventy percent black americans. the n word was NEVER spoken or referred to during my homelife. my bet is, your homelife was quite different with all the hate you obviously came up with.
No what you should have done is have your spewage translated OUT of the neocon moron jargon into something with a minimum level of coherence.
Your posts confirm your racism, Linda.
And yes... when growing up in a predominantly white neighborhood, I did witness much racism. In fact, it was the same sort of sneering, ignorant racism that you seem to take such foolish pride in. It didn't make sense to me then, & it doesn't make sense to me now.
Regardless of whatever primal prejudices may occasionally come seeping up from my id, I can comfortably state that, unlike you, I am not a racist. Racism, Linda, is... like all isms... the acceptance of a philosophy... in this case a philosophy of racial superiority. It is a foolish & demonstrably false philosophy, based on greed, violence, lies, & pseudoscience. If history has taught me anything, its that Europeans (whites) have shown themselves capable of behaving with a savagery, & a willingness to to ruthlessly exploit others that has rarely ever been surpassed. My "whiteness" is not something that I cling to in order to give myself a sense of self value. Being white is hardly an achievement in itself... just the random result of another spin of the genetic roulette wheel.
No, its what we do as individuals that defines us.
And yet, individuals though we be, we are all still intrinsically connected to each other & the rest of humanity, & have obligations to one another. We rely on one another for our survival, & we owe one another at least a semblance of justice. I can recognise that being born white & middle class afforded me certain practical advantages over those who were born into poverty & the prejudices of others. You appear unwilling... or maybe unable... to recognise the fact that we all weren't raised in identical situations, & that some DID suffer... & CONTINUE TO SUFFER... from the misplaced, entrenched hatred & scorn of those who hold institutional power.
Your willful & angry blindness to the racism & inequality that continues to afflict our nation is just sad. It speaks of a disjointed & disturbed mind. Your smugness & insensitivity, however, is simply appalling.
well, i rest my case for honesty. you have resorted to calling me every dispicable term in english. no credit for being honest. i was not born nor raised to be a racist. my heritage, not that you care, is german jew. i have learned what racism is. what we see we do. what we do we become. i refuse to ascribe to the pity party mantra. it is a self fufilling prophecy. look around, it's not hard to see.
Linda
If you were neither born nor raised to be a racist, then I can only conclude that it is an achievement that you should receive full personal credit for. It certainly is a dubious achievement, but you do seem to be reveling in it. Not many people are so willing to exhibit such a character flaw as if it was fine jewelry.
You know, there sometimes is something to be said for the emotion of shame.
Give it some thought.
my shame is of my fellow americans who insist on being referred to as african americans instead of being proud to be an american like the rest of we american citizens. my guess is that not one percent of the black americans have been to africa. if they did, they would spend their life savings to get home to america where they enjoy the freedoms that are part of their citizenship.
Your shame ought to be for your ignorance and bigotry
Mescal, it makes me a little sad to think, after reading the above posts, that Lindafrankes vote cancels yours out.
I hope the fact that it makes me sad doesn't get me an invitation to a pity party.
And you, sir, are a pity party pooper.
Great post. Top notch
Linda step away from the computer and take your meds please.
good comment applicable to most if not all of the posters here.
So you've realized and admitted that you are in fact a racist, you are just too stupid to realize that you are an idiot.
Linda seriously go back and read your post and try to find a coherent relavent thought. All of your backtracking pathetic atempts to twist what you actually said are sad. It hilarious when admitted racists just decide that evryone else is racist and somehow there racism is more justified do to some sort of zany bizarro logic they have scribbled on there bedroom wall in crayon.
It's a free country and god loves babies and morons so you should do fine. I'll just go back and join my fellow pity party members.
obviously you do not nor want to understand my posts. that's ok with me but i do understand your posts. sometimes they are direct and others are offensive in an effort to join the hatefilled pity party group. not one person who cannot refrain from calling an admitted racist a derogatory name. you need to glance inside and see what is really there. i have.
You're not alone there, Linda?
Do the extra voices count?"
First of all I am about as white an Anglo-Saxon protestant as you will ever see. Second I dont approve of racist slurs used on OUR airwaves. Imus, as has been pointed out, has all the right in the world to spout any nonsense he want to at the local park. Third this is MY country, I would prefer morons like YOU get the heck out of MY good country and take your black facist heart, ignorance, and shrivelled soul somewhere else.
i do not approve of the racial slur imus said on the airwaves. i have said this adnauseum. my point in the beginning of this bs conversation was to point out to those civic minded folks that imus has the same freedom of speech that we other americans enjoy. the biggest difference is that he gets paid alot of $$$$ for talking. i'm sure there are many people who are offended by some of his comments but they do not make such a big issue out of a simpletons' comment. so what if i did admit being a racist. take a look inside and then point your lily white finger at me and declare that you have NEVER uttered a racist comment. you can't. THIS IS MY COUNTRY TOO BUT I AM SICK TO DEATH OF HEARING, READING, AND BEING SUBJECT TO A PITY PARTY WHERE THERE IS NO VICTIM.
Poor you, huh?
But that last post of yours smacks of juuust a touch of self pity.
Have a nice party, Linda.
GOODNIGHT!
I get your point about the pity party and from what im gathering you wish that people, especially maybe these white middle class people to stop getting up and arms about this and worry about more important matters. That yes, these comments are bad and rebrehensable, but they clearly in the context of the person and the show, dont deserve this hatred and anger. with free sspeech comes the right to protest, they can do that and i support that. what i feel your point, or maybe if i could add to your comments is that you think there is entirly too much of the blame game going on with the different ethnic communities. Now i like most people agree that there is some institutional racisism that still exists. However i also believe that there are many good people in this country and having lived through predominatly black neighborhoods throughout high school and college, i can say that racism isnt so much of a problem here, it maybe in other places but here in philadelpia it isnt so bad. But there is some recentment from people in this country who feel that they are constantly getting lumped into a small group of people who obviously dont share their beliefs. This is how it works though, stereotypes are taken from a sample of a group and then added to the characteristics of that group, (i.e. all black people have nappy hair). the thing with stereotypes is that they dont exist without some reason, whether that reason is justifyable or not (it usually isnt). Listen, white people still have it good, but i think when dealing with double standards we must realize that two wrongs dont make a right. I know plenty of kids who just dont undeerstand why they can hear some kid who is black say the N word and then they get looked apon like bigots when they say it. It harbors recentment, the same kind of anger that miniorities have felt for years only now if you start pissing off the majority, the voices just tend to be louder. lets not be bigots here, i mean isnt a bigot someone who rushes to judgement on a person or race based apon little information, information which is degrating to that race, most of which isnt factual to begin with? that sounds like a bigot to me, so lets not have it spread to our boards here with people throwing around insults like they are candy. You dont help your argument by doing it, you need to lead by example. Imus is responsable for what he says, he has a right to say it, but he doesnt have the right to work at that station if they choose to fire him. But that station also has the right to hold onto him REGARDLESS of what a minority says, just as long as they feel he is a valuable employee who can make them money. there are plenty of things to be angry about, he screwed up, he said some bad words, get over it. If it really offended you, thats fine, just realize you are not a nappy-headed ho and that you dont need to let the voice of an old fart tell you who you are. isnt this what we teach our kids in school? to not listen and not always follow the crowd? i can understand why people are upset, as his comments can be used to promote more hateful speech. But there is a reason racist comments wont be mainstream in the US, its because they are not popular, hense the backlash. THe more we ignore and not listen, the less powerful racist voices can be. We dont give them a plateform on TV, we dont give them a platform politically, they are the fringe of society and will be pushed farther as we become more educated. Please people, dont be fearful that this country is on the wrong track, it really isnt. People are more open today than ever and will continue to be because we are more educated, and more diverse than ever. I feel good about this country as it comes to race relations, and you should too, there will always be those on the fringe who are really hateful, and just sometimes you cant convert the unwilling. Be critical, set the example, forgive and be openminded.
There is NO freedom of speech issue here. There never was. When Imus gets arrested for spewing his bigotry you will have a point. As of now you havent been within a LIGHT YEAR of a point. I dont care if you think its your country I still think you should get OUT. You had no problem telling OTHERS whose country it also is THEY should leave for comitting the unpardonable sin of thinking differently than you do. What you are REALLY comisserating is that people have the nerve to call others on their racist action, on being jerks. Its not enough for YOU that they have the right to be jerks YOU want to throw a huge pity party for THEM for being called on acting like jerks. According to YOUR logic ( I appologize to actual logic everywhere) THEY are being victimized by our criticism of them. Apparantly on YOUR planet freedom of speech allows THEM to act like jerks but not US to criticise them for acting like jerks. You seem to long for the time when racism had no consequences. The good old days when them darkies knew their place and knew better than to criticise their betters for using racist slurs against them. Those days are gone get over it.
solon: what is a black facist heart? does that mean that a black heart is a bad heart? using the color black to connote something bad is racist isn't it?
Not in this context. It describes a heart which through atrophy, and facist hatred has shrivelled into dark ash, much like your soul. Soon to dry up and blow away.
Linda, have you taken your pills? PLEASE PLEASE do all of us a favor and TAKE YOUR MEDICINE!
Linda is smarter than you, though.
Interesting
You must be using a new & unique means of assessing smartness.
I can understand how it might SEEM that way to a moron incapable of even RECOGNIZING higher brain function much less accomplishing the feat.
Howard Fineman is disgusting creature. He would like to "enable" this creep, but recognizes that "sometimes" he goes off the rails?
That is kind of the point, isn't it? This guy makes a habit of using racist and sexist language on his show that is listened to by a lot of people. He doesn't understand how demeaning it is.
The odd thing about Fineman's comment was that he was saying to Imus you can't say this sort of thing "nowadays". So it would have been ok a few years ago? What the hell kind of message is that?
I am sure he would have been chided as too liberal in Mississippi in the 1950's, but that is kinda besides the point.
I've been a listener of Imus and a channel changer with great regularity. His portrail of his guests has been really bad alot after their slots. The attack on women is especially bad. His show is NOT A COMEDY. He is rarely funny and the cast he has supporting is bad. Funny should have humor associated with it and not be a way for anyone to slap down a really successful athletic program.
Gosh dog, isn't this thing being blown out of proportion just a bit? Sure, skin color, religion or ethnicity should not be the butt of crude, juevenille humor. But, what are we to do as a nation? Are we to take the offenders and, at the least, inter them in "re-education" camps (i.e. "sensitivity training") or should we summilarily execute them (firing, fines, criminal penalties)?
And what of America's hypocrisy in dealing with race? We have a "Black History Month", for example but no Hispanic or White or Native American. How come?
Religious criticism and humor is verboten as well (in certain instances). It is okay to dump excrement over a crucifix or carve a statue of Jesus out of dog poop but heaven forbid if you would do such a thing to the Koran or a statue of Buddha or a copy of the Humanist Manifesto in a public place. Oh no, the lawsuits and accusations would fly.
Consider how America is ever inching its way toward totalitarianism. The Nazis used a similar ploy back in the thirties by taking the words Jew or Communist and whipping up the public frenzy that accelerated the rise of Hitler. Today, the terms "racist" or "bigot" are used in a similar fashion. Whoever disagrees with the status quo can often be labeled a bigot without actually being one as defined in Webster. A truly amazing phenomena.
Free speech only applies to certain entities in our society- basically the elite who profess to know what is best for the rest of us poor morons down below that don't know any better.
Racist remark? But if Imus was Black, it would have been ok, right? Since blacks can call other blacks names, even use the "N" word...that's ok. In a day where color supposedly doesn't matter, why is it ok for only blacks to say racial comments towards other blacks? This reverse racism is a joke. White people are so afraid to say what's on their mind, for fear of being labeld racist, that the black community takes advantage of it by using the same words us 'crackers' (I'm white, so I can call us crackers) aren't allowed to, which is basically rubbing our white noses in it. haha whitey...I can say the "N" word but you cant...I can have and all black TV channel, but you better not even think about it...and an all white college...just try it; Rev. Sharpton will have you tarred and feathered.
I heard of Imus and turned it on, a few years back. I was so offended by the vile, childish, unfunny attempt at humor, I never looked back. It reminded of crusty old patriarchal rightwing bastards, who are used saying anything, at anytime, about anybody. One would have to be into self-hatred to watch this show. They are down on everyone, but they aren't funny, period. At least Howard Stern can get one off occasionally. I don't watch him either.
You are part of the gang? Then why don’t you and your gang start roaming the streets of New York or Washington and start calling Black women whores? Come on tough guy let’s see what this rich white middle-aged gang is made of.