Imus vow: "[A]t some point, I stop playing"
On the April 10 edition of MSNBC's Imus in the Morning, host Don Imus, discussing the decision by MSNBC and CBS Radio to suspend the broadcast of his program for two weeks beginning April 16 in light of the controversy surrounding comments he made about the Rutgers University women's basketball team, said that "there's a lot of stuff that we can do, but at some point, I stop playing." Imus added that he doesn't "deserve to be fired" but that he "should be punished." He ended the segment by saying, "I'm not whining, because I don't feel as bad as those kids feel, and I've said that several times. But, I'm not going to play forever."
Media Matters for America noted Imus' April 4 comments -- in which he called the Rutgers women's basketball team "nappy-headed hos" -- at the time, as well as his subsequent apology two days later. However, as Media Matters noted at the time of Imus' apology, his remarks about the Rutgers team are just the latest in a long history of racial slurs -- not merely generic remarks, but smears of particular individuals -- by him, his guests, and regular contributors on the show.
From the April 10 edition of MSNBC's Imus in the Morning:
IMUS: And I'm going to go talk with the women at Rutgers if I can. And then I'm going to serve my suspension, and then I will come back and we will make this a better program, and we will make me a better person so that while I say I'm a good person, I did say that -- and it's irrelevant whether or not I was trying to be funny. I mean, where did I think that was all right to make fun of --? So, and there's a lot of stuff that we can do, but at some point, I stop playing. So I don't deserve to be fired. And I am not going to be fired without consequences. So, I should be punished and I'm being punished and not insignificantly, by the way. I'm not whining, because I don't feel as bad as those kids feel, and I've said that several times. But, I'm not going to play forever.
The market will decide this, but Imus shouldn't be expected to do more that serve out his punishment without, as he says, whining.
And I wish Al Sharpton would keep his nose out of this. I'll start listening to him when he apogizes for his racist lies he told during the Tawana Brawley saga.
Again the bottom line is this is one of many insensitive statements Imus has made. His show has no place on a mainstream media outlet. I applaude Rev Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for demanding his firing. This hate goes beyond his Rutgets comment. He can perform his "comedy" on satelite radio, MSNBC should not be the arena to allow hate.
Doris, I'm no fan of shock jock shows, find them essentially boring. But I would defend the radio station's right to play his show for the same reason I would defend Larry Flynt's right to publish his trash magazine. We have to defend free speach when it is challenged almost every time, or else it will eventually be eroded to a degree that we allow facism. I met the old Iman once during a rain delay at a golf course, and got the distinct impression he is a decent human being. He made a mistake and is being punished as his employer sees fit. I hope you realize he was making a back handed compliment to the style of play of the Rutger's team, but completely blew it.
I really wish those of you who keep bringing up Freedom of "Speach" would actually pay attention to what Freedom of Speech really is, and how it has nothing to do with this.
The Radio Stations have every right to play his BS, and the public has every right to threaten to pull their ears - and DOLLARS - away from them and every advertiser on the station. This is how the market works in a socially conscious way. It has nothing to do with Freedom of Speech, which is a guarantee that one cannot be stifled unreasonably by the government just because they have an unpopular opinion.
By the way, Larry Flynt is the publisher of his OWN magazine, last I checked, and the government, especially in Cincinnati, tried to shut him down because they didn't like what he had to present. That is censorship. A corporation telling Imus to get his act together because they'll lose money otherwise is just smart business.
-Insert obligatory rant about American's lack of understanding of their basic civil rights here-
That is interesting BLR. I think Mr. Flynt's attorney would disagree with your premise. That is not how it was presented to the supreme court.
You do understand the difference between a magazine and public airwaves correct? Do you understand the difference between not purchasing a magazine and telling someone that they cannot publish or sell their magazine? Do I need to explain to you the different between Imus being on MSNBC (public airwaves) and satellite radio?
"You do understand the difference between a magazine and public airwaves correct"
MSNBC is a cable channel, not a public airwave. It's something that people have to buy, and it's not a public resource. You have that backwards. The people don't have a right to demand anything from a cable channel. If you don't like Imus, then don't watch him. It's that simple. There are many people who like watching him. I enjoy watching his show from time to time, even though I don't always agree with what he says. Why do you want to deprive other people the right to watch his show? If you don't like his show, THEN DON'T WATCH IT! Is it that hard? If people stop watching his show, then his ratings will fall and he'll quit or be fired. But until that day, he'll still be on the air because there are millions who still watch and enjoy his show.
"The people don't have a right to demand anything from a cable channel. If you don't like Imus, then don't watch him."
That's what the people are demanding - do something about Imus, or we stop watching and we stop supporting your advertisers. This isn't about Freedom of Speech, because no one has a right to be paid to spout unpopular opinions if the market cannot support it.
"because no one has a right to be paid to spout unpopular opinions if the market cannot support it"
But the market does support it! Imus has always been pretty popular. His radio show has always been very popular. He's a member of the Radio Hall of Fame. The reason that he's still on the air is that his ratings are good. If you don't like him, then don't watch his show and urge others not to watch it as well. But I just don't see what the purpose is of demanding that he be fired. I don't see why you want to deny his fans the opportunity to watch his show. You seem to want to make decisions for others, when all you really should do is just change the channel on your T.V. and watch something else.
what was that about a radio show? Rhino your point is taken on his cable program, however they do not own the airwaves for his radio show and that was my point.
If people want to pay extra money to view or listen to Imus I could care less.
Actually his point about cable is WRONG, as I have shown. Every time we argue this the rightwingers try this claim and I have to wipe it away. ITS WRONG, Cable is regulated in the same way as other broadcast media and has the same obligations to public service.
This is incorrect. The market does not support it if more people are upset about Imus than like him, because the negative implications of people boycotting the media outlet and its advertisers far outweight the benefit of Imus' listening audience tuning in every day.
There's more to the first amendment than just "if you don't like what he says, don't listen." It also involves the concept of MORE SPEECH. People who don't like what he says have every right to publicize what it is they don't like about Imus and to ask anyone within earshot not to listen to his program or support his advertisers.
You are WRONG about cable but even if you WERE right as a consumer I STILL have every right to voice my displeasure about what I am paying for INCLUDING IMUS and tell the provider of my service what I WANT. If you dont like us complaining the problem is YOURS not OURS.
Gee, you are wrong again, what were the odds. The FCC regulates cable like the airwaves consistant with protecting the public interest
Broadcasters are regulated under Title III of the federal Act.Broadcast regulation is almost exclusively the concern of the national government. Cable systems are regulated under yet another Title, Title VI. While Title VI provides for some federal regulation of cable, most The Communications Act appears at Title 47 of the United States Code.
Title I is a general provision describing the scope of the Act and the powers of the FCC; Titles
IV and V are administrative and penal provisions, respectively.
regulation actually occurs at the state or local level. The federal law is designed to ensure that state and local regulation of cable is exercised in a manner consistent with national goals.
Under each of the regulatory models, providers are subject to requirements designed to protect the public. Each model implicitly or explicitly reflects a notion that, in return for the grant of certain benefits to the provider, the provider must return benefits to the public. In other words, providers assume a public trust, and may be subject to regulations that are not applied to businesses that do not receive benefits from the government. The notion of a “public trust” is neither new nor unique to U.S. law. English law provided that those who placed inns on the Kings Highway were obliged to serve all who passed by.
This makes it CLEAR that the public has EVERY RIGHT to demand CABLE like all other media meet their obligations to the public.
Wow. You mean Flynt wasn't being pressured by government officials through censorship? Wonder what all the ruckus was for back then.
I agree 100%. I'm glad to see that there are still a few traditional liberals who stand up for free speech rights. I really am kind of scared of these new neo-liberals who seek to limit free speech rights. This website is one of the worst offenders. It really is scary to see how the far left is trying to erode free speech rights.
It's getting to the point where you can't make a racial slur without being called a racist!
Well,What would you be called?
Don't be silly, how can there be racists in a America when there is no racism in America?
Lynn, you didn't get the memo. Apparently, there is racism in America, but it's only people of color whining about the past and not taking responsibility for their own problems.
How are liberals abating free speech again? Listen closely, we're not saying, "Don't say this you're not allowed" We're saying, "Don't say this because it's just wrong, but it is your right. And it is also our right to call you out on your BS". Again, as others have said, maybe it is time for another lesson on what exactly is free speech?
Exactly. You - once again - distort the basic concept. That is, Imus is free to rant and rave...spew hate speech whereever and whenever he likes... that is, as long as it is not for pay or over the public airwaves. The folks paying Imus and those who govern the radio dial are therefore complicit. You think it's okay to say hateful, racist things. Good for you. You and Imus should set up shop on the street corner and see how many people drop a dollar in your box for your insight.
There is NO free speech issue involved here. Imus has NO free speech right to a TV or Radio show. When he gets arrested for being a racist jerk get back to us until then all this rightwing talk about free speech only shows you guys have no idea what you are talking about AGAIN.
You have got to be kidding me. You are praising Al Sharpton, who accused innocent people of rape based on their race and never apologized, and Jesse Jackson, who called New York "Hymietown"?????
Good grief, how hypocritical is that?
O NOES! Not "Hymietown!" Surely, Jesse's done something in the past 20 years that you can find to bring up, instead of pulling that tired, decades-old line out?
And Matt Lauer brought up the Ifel comment that Imus made 20 years ago.
I don't really know who Matt Lauer is, but I can tell you that Imus has been saying stupid, offensive, and derogatory things much more recently than that. Feel free to search the site for details.
Again - what has Jackson done recently, aside from take up causes white racists don't like, that can be hauled out like a dead horse? It would be nice to give your fellows some fodder, because the Hymietown thing just makes them look ignorant and petty.
Matt Lauer on the Today show.
Don't watch it - I think I'm typically at work when it's on, or desperately in need of caffeine, depending on what time. :D
When are you going to admit that Jackson and Sharpton are every bit as racist as you feel that Imus is? Why aren't you so admant about these thug rappers who use this type of language daily and sell it to our children. Imus say's "nappy headed ho's" and you suddenly want to defend statments made by other racists? Unbelievable.
I just hope that soon people will begin to realize that this situation is bigger than Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson they do not have the power to shut down a multi million dollar cash cow.
Why not? You guys still like Richard Mellon Scaife.
I missed it. Can you show where people here "praised" Sharpton?
Right. This is a classic deflection by right-wingers... Just like when someone says, with good reason, that W is a complete wash and failure as President...then some rightie says "Well, Bill Clinton was a philanderer". Non-sequitur. Nonsense.
Point taken on sharpton, but one only has to look two postings up to see Jackson defense.
Actually Doris praised Sharpton
Again the bottom line is this is one of many insensitive statements Imus has made. His show has no place on a mainstream media outlet. I applaude Rev Sharpton and Jesse Jackson for demanding his firing. This hate goes beyond his Rutgets comment. He can perform his "comedy" on satelite radio, MSNBC should not be the arena to allow hate.
Doris you are completely wrong, you have had a vendetta against Imus since you have been posting on this site. You are supposedly anti War, yet you want to get rid of a man who is one of the few voices against this war on Cable TV? How outrageous.
Being anti War has NOTHING to do with filling the airwaves with Hate speech.
"Being anti War has NOTHING to do with filling the airwaves with Hate speech"
It's simply your opinion that it's hate speech. I find it hard to believe that something can be hate speech when it's said as a joke. Imus definetely isn't a hateful person. That would be MSNBC's Keith Olbermann. If you want an example of someone who's hateful, it's Olbermann. A good portion of his show is devoted to personally attacking those with whom he disagrees. But I don't want Olbermann to be fired either. I simply choose not to watch his show. You can do the same with Imus. If you don't like him, then don't watch his show! Nobody is forcing you to watch the show. I wish that you and your fellow liberals would embrace the traditional liberal value of free speech rights.
I find it hard to believe that something can be hate speech when it's said as a joke.
Again, what is funny about calling someone's kid a prostitute? I might get away with that if I knew somebody really well, and we were used to kidding around roughly. But for a white man to get on national radio and call a young black woman he doesn't know a "nappy headed ho..."
Really, you have to work awful hard to make this just "a joke."
It was meant as a joke. Whether or not it was actually funny is another matter. It was a dumb joke and a joke for which Imus will pay the price, but he didn't say it in a hateful way. He wasn't angry when he said it. Imus is hardly ever serious on his show. I'm not excusing what he said, but it's obvious that he wasn't angry when he said what he said.
Hate speech is not necessarily said in anger. Calling a young black athlete a prostitute (and one with bad hair to boot) is hateful, whether or not you say it with a smile on your face... perhaps even more so in that instance.
Sure whenever a bloviating screechmonkey says something racist, ignorant, and churlish its always a joke even when there really isnt any humor in sight. You wingnuts have a strange sense of humor thinking contempt and degradation is a subject for humor. Even if it WASNT funny someone OUGHT to be able to tell why an attempted joke was MEANT to be funny. I see no possibilty of humor in calling a group of women nappy headed ho's
I have been critical of Olbermann on this site , however he does not say racist things. Calling African American girls "nappy headed hos" is not funny. Please cite where Olbermann has used racial language?
I never said he was racist. I simply said he was hateful. He starts feuds with various people simply because they are more successful than he is. He's a hateful and angry person. Olbermann is hateful but not a racist. I also believe that what Imus said was sexist but not racist. The term "ho" can refer to both black and white women. There were also a couple of white women on the team. The majority just happened to be black. I don't think Imus even thought about that before he said it. Imus' comment was obviously sexist, but not racist in my opinion.
Well you may have a point that Olbermann hates people too , but his agenda is usually political or ratings driven. Imus in my opinion is ignorant based on trying to gain ratings point at the expense of racial, religious and homophobic language.
Rino,
Come on now you know as well as I do that when he said nappy headed he was referring to the Black girls. Is there anything ever that rises to the level of being a racist statement with you guys? Stop defending the indefensable.
In your mind. Just because he exposes the hypocrisy, LIES and jerklike behavior of your bloviator heroes doesnt make him hateful.
Rino,
You and the Libs know that simply tuning them out won't work. Conservative news and radio shows are the most popular. FOX and Rush have proven that. Franken who? It's much easier to have someone they don't like fired.
Rich Dave,
What's your point? I think with a lot of you guys whether you would do it or not you just want to reserve your right to say the n-word if you choose. Well you do have that right. You can say it all you want you can say it in your homes, your private clubs, hell you can stand on a corner and repeat it over and over if you like. But we HAVE the right to condemn people that would do that. What you guys want is the right to say what you want and the right not to be comdemned for saying it.
Every so often I take a step back and realise there really are people in 2007 who think it's all good to call some young women "nappy-headed hos" on television.
This is really Through-the-Looking-Glass stuff.
Franken WHO? Would that be Al Franken, the winner of FIVE EMMYS and a Grammy for a comedy album? And except for the imaginary Peabody O'falfel THINKS he won your screechmonkeys arent even in the same league with Franken as far as talent. Whether liberals will ever embrace talk radio means very little. Franken is a monster talent who has been aknowleged by his peers in ways your guys wont even accomplish in their dreams.
Rhino-Hunter:
Umm- why not bring up everyones name and the kitchen sink?
Keith Olberman full of hate speech. oh yeah. Pleeze. I'd ask for examples. But this is about what Imus and his producer said and did.
Not that you appear to care about that. His remarks were hurtful and harmful, The worse kind of derogatory language meant to demean.
Calling student athletes literally at the top of their game- hos- is just wrong was racist ans sexist and just wrong.
He doesn't seem to grasp, or want to grasp how that kind of language is an attack not only on one's person but on their spirit and soul.
Yeah, he's saying it was stupid. Agreed. But as the days go on, it appears he just wants to keep his job. Doesn't really care about the damage he's done.
And that's what this article MM posted is about.
You know he was talking about human beings, young women, who were in the NCAA finals. Gawd!
You don't watch his show with that ignorant comment, keep up the crappy blogging rhino.......
There you go Ms. Russell. I am so glad that we have people like you telling us what is in our best interest.
What am I telling you that is in your best interest?
And I am not going to be fired without consequences.
Is this some sort of threat against his erstwhile employers?
Hey, while he's being punished by having to feel guilty about collecting a paycheck while he's not working for 2 weeks (I still call that a vacation, but...), Bernie can make jokes about how he's stuck at home servicing the nappy crotch of his "ho", Deirdre. And how it hasn't seen that much attention since the Toronto Raptors visit. I'm sure he'll be grateful that they kept going with the funny.
As an African-American male and proud "leftist," I do have to say I'm sick to death of Sharpton and Jackson using this as a vehicle to get more "face-time" in the media, speaking to America as if they're our leaders and spokesmen. It sickens me that CNN, FOX and MSNBC gave both platforms as a way to exhibit the best that black politics has to offer. There are some great black minds on the left -- scholars who can seriously challenge the status quo -- but you'll rarely hear from them. As Nation writer Norman Kelley noted in his great book "The Head Negro In Charge Syndrome": "The HNIC Syndrome has seen the rise of symbolic leaders---Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton, and now Russell Simmons---who may be charismatic, but are politically unaccountable to the very people they claim represent, namely African-Americans. [...] By embedding themselves within the mechanisms of the Democratic Party and moving from protest to politics, with no relative independent economic strategy, the black political and intellectual elite has failed the majority of African-Americans."
I've states countless times in other threads that I think Don Imus should face the heat since he's been warned repeatedly to tone down this racial humor that can go too far. It's not so much of making jokes about blacks that upsets so many; its the fact that he channels some of the most stereotypic, Step N Fetch/Amos N Andy-type routines that are not only outdated but deplorable. There are tons of white comedians who make jokes about blacks all the time, but Imus and McGuirk conjures up routines that are close to minstrelsy than the all-in-good-fun racial jokes by the likes of Don Rickles, Sarah Silverman and Lisa Lampanelli. His brand of humor is too anachronistic, and if he’d been smart, he would’ve listened to journalist Clarence Page when he appeared on the show pleading with him to tone it down. But what do you expect when you have a cold-hearted racist Bernard McGuirk as your producer, someone who eggs you on in that type of racial-bashing?
I don’t think Imus should be fired; he apologized, he regrets his mistakes, and he’s at least trying to make amends with this girls who did not deserve being characterized as “nappy-headed hos”. It was despicable that he went on to Sharpton’s show and basically groveling to this clown, because like so many white folks in America, he thinks Sharpton holds some time of power over blacks. When will the media wake up and realize that Al Sharpton ain't our leader?!
Very well stated. I completely agree.
Great comments Preston
Thanks MHK and Monk!
I think you're right Preston. I don't think what Imus does is funny either. It's just .... mean. I listened to him for a few weeks several years ago. That was all that I could take. I don't know what makes him think that the good things that the does makes him a good person. Everybody does good things. They don't make up for the bad and he should be a little more humble. I don't have an opinion as to firing him. That is up to the sponsors and viewers. I think that this will all take care of itself when no self respecting politician or celebrity will accept invitations to be his guest.
I agree with you, Failedbelle, but I do have to admit I tend to find Imus funny a lot when he bashes a lot of folks in the media, especially his MSNBC boss Dan Abrams and former Today Show host Katie Couric. It's not really Imus that I dislike with a passion, it has always been Bernard McGuirk, and it's usually McGuirk that spews out the sexist, racist, homophobic, xenophobic language. Honestly, I think Imus has a good heart and I don't think he's a racist. What he said was racist, but that doesn't mean he's a Klan member.
I don’t believe in this Spike Lee-esque politics that when one blurts out a racist statement -- especially in Imus case when he was in the heat of the moment kidding around with a bunch of guys in this locker room type humor -- that he's a racist and he should lose his job, regardless he's been on air for 30 years and has helped many sickly, black kids over the years. People can’t just erase that and ignore his connection to the African-American community like that because of a mistake. I remember specifically that he was THE only white man in the media who felt that the whole Katrina situation had to do with race more than just class regarding those victims. I may dislike his producer McGuirk with a passion, but I will never forget when Imus said that.
Sharpton, Jackson and these other black journalists that are seeking to get Imus fired need to look at the whole picture and not just zero-in on this one situation. It was a joke that went wrong and he regrets it. It reminds me of that character Sal in Spike Lee's "Do The Right Thing." Regardless that Sal has a great history with African-Americans, because of one slip-up of saying something that he didn't mean—actually being coerced into a furious state of mind— he's condemned and sentenced as a racist for eternity. Racism is much more complex and deeper in America than just blurting out a few racist statements. Philosophically we have to break down to the moral of what is racism and what is not; I believe Lawrence Blum incredible book “I’m Not Racist But...” does a great job defining the true definition of racism.
Thanks for your comments Preston.
I too hated seeing Imus grovel on Rev. Al's show yesterday, for Sharpton to leave the room at every break. mercy.
I too am also with you concerning Bernard. He's the racist on that show, he's the one that push's the racist aspect of that show all the way around, at least when Sid's not around. If anyone should be fired, its Bernard.
It's obvious that Imus is deeply sorry for what he said. He does do a lot for charity and the environment, and is pretty outspoken about the war & the Walter Reed fiasco. I hope this all cools down after he meets with the team.
It's hard to respect any of the people at the center of this. Imus seems to be getting overly defensive and demanding forgiveness, making me doubt the sincerity of his apology. Sharpton is an opportunistic hypocrite. So much for charity.
<>Sounds like really funny movie:
Halle Berry, gorgeous as ever at age 40, is set on going bald for an upcoming film titled "Nappily Ever After." While Berry could elect to fake it and wear a cap she apparently has decided to identify closely with her character. Berry will play a woman who is losing her hair, gets fet up and decides to shave it as a result. Consequently, she is faced with new perceptions of who she is and learns just how her hair defined her.
<>I am so tired of the mock outrage which occurs when a statement is made which someone finds offensive or insensitive. What Imus said was stupid, not funny, and inappropriate. He should not be fired, nor do I beleive suspended. Greater injustices occur in the media daily and are highlighted on this website. The lack of any accoutabilty for the intellectual dishonesty displayed by the media is more appalling to me than this brain fart.I caught part of the Rutgers basketball team's press conference earlier. They are a terrific bunch of young women and great role models. Their coach is trmendously strong woman and a great role model as well.
Imus has a lot to answer for in demeaning not these women but all women.
He has apologized, as Bill Maher said we need to move on. He was right in saying if this is the biggest problem in the African American community than things must be great in the Black community today. Shame on Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and shame on the Today show and Matt Lauer.
"Shame on Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and shame on the Today show and Matt Lauer."
If you're going to call them to shame, you might want to elaborate why. A prominent talk radio and television personality insults strong and intelligent young female role models by debasing them based on their race and gender... and shame on AS, JJ, ML, and the TS for bringing up? WTF?
If you're going to call them to shame, you might want to elaborate why. A prominent talk radio and television personality insults strong and intelligent young female role models by debasing them based on their race and gender... and shame on AS, JJ, ML, and the TS for bringing up? WTF?
Where where these people when Imus was out raising money for Cancer, and helping build better rehab centers for Vets ? Where was AS, JJ< ML and the Today show when Ann Coulter was using the Today Show to spew vile hate toward the 9/11 Widows?
IIRC, Coulter's statements about the widows hit the media hard - I find it hard to believe that TTS never touched that topic.
As for AS and JJ, they have a central mission in their life, and it is directly related to improving lives of minorities in America. It is disingenuous to pretend that any given public official needs to be outraged over each and every topic that comes across the attention of America, or take up every cause as their own. If that were the norm, we could criticize John Kerry for not running in enough Races for the Cure, or be outraged that Newt Gingrich wasn't out protesting with the missionaries outside Terry Schaivo's window.
Finally, why is it that when a conservative does something moderately nice (O'RLY's fundraising efforts, Imus raising for cancer research) and using their fame for something that MANY famous use their notoriety for, suddenly there's something wrong with the critics of that conservative because they're not kissing Gluteous maximus because of that moderate effort?
If Imus is a conservatve why does he call Dick Cheney a "War Monger"? And this morning why did him and Bill Maher bash Bush? I believe Imus hates everyone and its not a political issue.
Not all conservatives are willing to bend over for the administration, and I wish people would stop holding Bush-Hatred up as proof of liberalism, or proof against conservativism.
I feel pretty much the same. Imus' comment was racist and unconcionable at this point I think he seems sincere in his appolgy. Appolgies mean something to me. He is on notice, he needs to leave the racism alone. Its not funny, but he has gotten the message. The suspension was a good punishment, I am willing to move on.
Solon, I agree with you, Imus seems sincere to me. He isn't a guy that humbles easily and he appears to have done that and that can't be easy for a man like Imus. The times have change and Imus must realize that acceptance of the stereotypical charactures of Blacks depicted on his show given the US historically context that race has played is out of line. It isn't funny it's hurtful. It should have always been out of line but face it there was a time when nothing would have been said about this and that was wrong. This controversy makes me know that progress is being made. I think that we collectively as a society have finally said there should be a shared standard of decency and that when we cross that line we as a society will let you know. For all of those that keep bringing up the gansta rappers let me say I agree that there speech is just as egregious as the humor on the Imus show. I actually find it more offensive. It's one thing for this disrespect to come from outside, but when the disrespect of women comes from one of your own it's more painful to me. It actually serves to have the Imus’s of the world think it’s Okay to be disrespectful to us. Hell I think they conclude if they (black men) don’t respect their own women why should they have to show us respect. It’s a simple minded rationale, but I think that’s the message that is absorbed by simpletons. I too want to see Sharpton and Jackson's groups be as passionate about protesting the record companies that distribute this hate speech set to rhyme and packaged as just another expressive art form. I'll send them both e-mails in reference to this. To sum this up we are all human beings and we deserve respect. One day when we stop thinking in terms of them and us and start thinking in terms of us all as human beings with the same feelings and emotions that we will have evolved into better people.
Thanks Lynn, this is the most sane and decent comment in this thread...
Great post Lynn.
Go 'head, Lynn, I agree with every single word you said. Best post in the entire thread.
No, all free countries protect freedom of satire and freedom of artistic expression. You want to shut down the rappers? Fascist.
It WASN'T satire. Satire is when you make FUN of a sentiment. In this case he would have had to mean the exact opposite of what he said, its clear he wasnt satirizing racism he was being RACIST.
I watched the Rutgers basketball team's press conference also.
Anyone else notice how nice those girls hair looked?
Imus should not be punished for Free speech. If a Black Man hadmade the same comment People would have been joking about it forweeks. Blacks can't change the fact that some people don't like thereRace And It will always be that way. Look at the Jews and PolishPeople. Get over yourself. You were not the first race to be the buttof a joke or inslaved and I am positive you will not be the last.
Americans can't change the fact that some people don't like thereCountry And It will always be that way. Look at the Jews and PolishPeople. Get over yourself. You were not the first race to be the buttof a terrorist attack or kidnapping and I am positive you will not be the last.
Words of wisdom.
Little Baby Thomas Jefferson cries when you misinterpret the Bill of Rights.
Chris, you're an idiot, and a true example of someone who should not ever fix your mouth to speak on race issues when you're to clueless to understand the complexity of it. And if you don’t know, there are MANY Intellectual Jews who’ve written many books, citing evidence that racism isn’t a thing of the past and how many minorities of color—especially blacks—has ways to go to reach equal justice. So for you to say “how about the Jews’ when there are many Jews for are fighting against the system for people of color is extremely laughable.From your post I can honestly say you're probably a Right Winger, because only an overly-privileged, conservative white male would utter the words "get over it." Racism still exists today because people are not educated enough about history. Only by learning about the roots of modern day racism will people gain the human compassion to combat racism today. Through knowledge comes understanding, and through understanding comes wisdom—wisdom which will make people aware of the psychological burdens which non-white cultures are subconsciously suffering from which are derivative to the subconscious racial arrogance which white people unconsciously practice.
The country was founded by European Imperialists, who happened to be white. What that means is, the country is a product of conquest and racism towards non-white cultures which were considered "inferior" by the European Imperialists. The Native Americans are the true owners of North America. THAT IS A FACT. You are only supporting a racist European ideology of conquest, expansion, and self-appointed divinity which became known as "Manifest Destiny" when America was later established as a nation. If the European People really wanted to co-exist with Native Americans and worked together to make a nation, they wouldn't have decided to conquer the Native Americans and enslave them. Let's not forget that the European Imperialists had to consider the Native Americans as "inferior" otherwise they wouldn't have decided to massacre them in the first place. You cannot erase history, no matter how many times you may try to downplay it or deny it in these forums. If you claim or even imply that those who inform you about the history of European Imperialism its continuing influence today, are "whiners", you are simply trying to spin away to avoid having to participate in a progressive discussion.
Preston,
Thanks for the ultra left wing revisionist history lesson. Imus did not mean his statments in a literal way. He wasn't saying these things in an ideological manner. If you can't see that you have let political correctness blind you from seeing simple logic. Get over it!!!!!
He said NOTHING that is revisionist, unless the TRUTH is revisionist to you... have you ever read up on the conquest of the Americas and its consequences? Check out Zinn's 'A peoples' history of the United States'...
I could care less about Preston's revisitionist ideology. This argument is Philosophy 101. For most historical opinions you give me I can find textual research to disagree with your perception of history. Come on!!!!
Well then, why not make an intellectual argument, instead of throwing smears around like "revisitionist ideology," whatever that means.
and what's with the 'simple logic' he says I am suppossedly missing? Methinks today is going to be a long session in spanking the ignorant, racist cons out there...
The simple logic is that you are taking this comment by Imus and trying to prop him up as some sort of white supremacist, when in reality he apoligized and explained that it was a bad attempt at humor. You refuse to accept that notion because somebody was offended. So what?
No, he did nothing of the sort. He talked, at some length and quite cogently, about the history of racism in America.
You have not yet made any sort of a counter-argument except to call the rest of us names, despite a number of entreaties, from me and from others.
We do get passionate in comments, sometimes overboard, but I think anyone who has posted here for awhile knows that we do welcome intelligent debate.
So what's it going to be?
You will have to forgive me for intruding into your little tea party. Ths simple fact of the matter is that when others disagree with you you counter with the same argument. I have not seen you get specific one time. What gives?
I am specifically asking you to point out what is wrong with Preston's argument.
For, like, the fifth time.
I was responding to MLK... Helllooo!!!
Who is "MLK?" Scroll up and you'll see:
Dumb libtard that I am, I read "Preston" as being an indication that you were directing your comments to Preston.
I meant Mr. L, If you will pay attention you should notice that Preston left the discussion and Mr.L specifically asked what simple logic he was missing to which I replied. Then of course you replied indicating that I wasn't talking to Mr.L but rather Preston. Geez, lady, I can't draw pictures for ya.
At this point, I'd welcome a specific argument directed at anyone, on any subject.
It's easier for him to insult Preston then to back up his argument.
Lazy and oh so typical.
O.K. valentino or valentia or whatever the hell you are. If you consider that a smear I have to assume that you wear a hockey helmet all the time.
achrispage6992 - You are really missing the point. Your arguments mean nothing unless your willing to back up your point. Why don't you try it instead of just throwing around names and buzz words?
Please enlighten me Mr. MHK. What did you just do in your response to me?
Your logic is flawed sir.
Preston posted a long and well thought out comment and you just attacked him without backing up your statement. What addtional clarification do you need from me? It is lazy and typical of many people that post on this site. Drive by posting without substance. I'm more then willing to listen to any point you have and tell you why I disagree, but if there isn't any substance to your post to being what exactly are you asking me to do?
You accuse me of not being specific but I have not yet seen anything in that nature from you. I bit, and gave monkey or monknj80 or whatever a fairly specific response as to my belief that Preston's argument was revisionist in nature. Drive by posting? That's pretty good; you converse as if you own this site. Obviously, you don't like it when others disagree. I have already been accused of being conservative, racist, and a white supremacist since being here. I sir, am a real liberal in the tradition of RFK and Rooselvelt. Never have I seen such vitriole from those who espouse that they are firmly in the party of openess of ideas, i.e. liberal.
A - I have been specific on a number of posts over the last few days so please read. I've also responded to you further down on this thread so I would encourage you to read that as well.
I never claimed to own this site or to be the arbitor of how to post.. All I'm trying to say to you is that people will and are open to dialog on this site, but you have to meet them half way.
does that include people like Preston calling people idiots, morons, and pricks?
Preston apologised to you for saying that - after you called him a prick, I might add...
While that is certaintly true, I don't remember lowering the discourse to that level until I was attacked. Also, please look at Preston's other postings to chris and Lynda(?). Let's be honest with ourselves here.
This topic isn't in a vacume A - please read the numerous comments from LINDA on other threads.
Preston already apologised and back up all his arguments. You've already started doing one of them (thank you by the way) so how about the other?
O.K. I'll bite. What other argument?
saying your sorry for insulting him.
Oh, I almost forgot. Since Preston apologized he should be forgiven just like Imus, right? No harm, no foul.
Yeah, sure, why not?
At this point I have to assume you are a complete moron who thinks making a baseless assertion is somehow defining reality. YOU claimed Preston was revising history. Either back that up or show yourself out in disgrace.
Get with the program hair salon and quit assuming. maybe next year when you get to a fifth grade reading level you will be able to cognitively read ahead and see that I did respond as you so humbly wanted me to. Talk about disgraceful, ignorance is bliss and you are the happiest person on this site.
Well you have prove you are a complete and total moron. I CAN read. In your wildest dreams you will never read better than I do. For instance ignoramus. The quote you just mangled doesnt SAY ignorance is Bliss, it says WHERE ignorance is bliss,(say in YOUR household, or in the context of your inability for higher brain function) tis folly to be wise. See IF you could read you would know that the POINT of that ISNT that ignorance is bliss, except in cases like YOURS where you have no real choice since ignorance is your natural state.
You really are a sad individual. I have yet to read one posting of yours in which you are civil and at least put forth the appearance of intelligence. Every posting of yours exudes the appearance of self important arrogance. In other words your a smart ass. You wrote "well you have prove you are a complete and total moron". Look closely at that sentence and think. I guess in your infinite wisdom you have never heard of the word "proven" and the use of a comma certaintly escapes your great intellect. Anyway Einstein, the "quote" you say I mangled is given in a contextual format to indicate colloquial usage i.e. your lack of knowledge brings you happiness.
I actually thought I had typed proven. I am a poor typist, not inarticulate . Someone with better than a room temperature IQ would have known that. I make a lot of posts with insight and intelligence. I have no insecurity about my intelligence. See the key to successful insults is some measure of credibility. You dont call Callista Flockheart fatty. I do not however waste insight on jr high insult fests. YOU started calling people names I chimed in. I will be the sole arbiter of how I post. Get over yourself. You mangled the quote after taking me to task for my intelligence with it. IF you had an IQ slightly higher than that of a gerbil you would see the irony of doing that. I am losing the thread of hostility here. I have read other posts of yours and you obviously are not stupid. If you WERE obviously stupid I would have used a different insult anyway. I am not trying to hurt anyones feelings here. I am trying to make the point that the personal attack is easy and intellectually lazy and people don't usually enjoy it. These posts arent chronological. I hadnt read the rest of the thread when I posted my first attack. I saw later that you had already been insulted later in the thread but earlier in the day. I am willing to maintain a flamewar if thats what you want. I can do it all day as I am sure you can, as I said its easy, and intellectually lazy. Having read more of your posts while you seem often somewhat hostile you do put substance into some of your posts and arent really my kind of target for this kind of exchange. So we can begin to talk about the substance of what the topic is or keep up the flamewar. Really its all the same to me.
Look, sir. Your rationale is very clever indeed. If our discourse is to be changed it will not be on your terms. I am willing to come to an agreement, but it will not include an acceptance that If I choose to have a heated discussion with somone I must be prepared to endure your "successful insults". Furthermore your inane insistence that I mangled a quote and as such is indicative of my intelligence is beyond reproach. I assume that the quote you refer to is that of the poet Thomas Gray who wrote "where ignorance is bliss, Tis' folly to be wise". Your assumption as to the point of origin of my reference is inaccurate. There is in fact historical usage of "ignorance is bliss" and "if ignorance is bliss". These can most easily be explained as, American Proverbs, if you will. Ignorance is bliss, while possibly obtaining it's origins from Thomas Gray's quote, has been used in and of itself numerous essays, articles, novels, movies, and other forms of media. Again it is used as a contextual device to indicate colloquial usage of the idea that one's lack of knowledge brings happiness. So the fact remains that I didn't mangle anything. Now, Mr. Smarty Pants, I am willing to begin discussing issues with cvil discourse if you so desire.
Oh, f*ck you, Achrispage6992! You're just another typical conservative prick who hate the fact that America has a deep, nasty, white supremacist past and this has effected minorities for centuries. There's nothing "revisionist" about what I just said, you self-righteous, ignorant, cold-hearted prick!
Let me tell you something you ignorant ass. I am the farthest thing from a white supremacist conservative. In 1966 I fought for this country and two of the finest people that I have ever met died right in front of me. These two gentlemen happened to be black. So, the last thing I need is a profanity and personal attack filled tirade from a moron telling me who or what I am. You little prick you.
ACHRISPAGE.. 'he wasn't saying these things in an idealogical manner and he didn't mean his statements in a literal way'... OK, then WHAT'S LEFT?? Was he saying nothing at all? Speaking of logic, you are bereft...
He didn't call you a "white supremacist conservative".
He said:
'that America has a deep, nasty, white supremacist past and this has effected minorities for centuries."
Are you saying this is a false statement? Please clarify what in his statement was "revisitionist ideology"?
If you can back up your statement, I will concede to your point.
He called me a conservative prick and then insinuated that I didn't like the fact that my country has a white supremacist past. Logically he believes that I am proud that the United States has a white supremacist past. What more can I say?
Try backing up your argument instead of spouting buzz words.
You haven't shown any evidence that you are not a "conservative prick". Do you deny that the country has a white supremacist past? You still haven't identified any parts of his arguments that were in fact false.
Like I said, if you can back up your statments I will concede to your point.
I do deny that this country has a white supremacist past. Are you saying that our past history is comparible to that of Nazi Germany. To me, the Nazi's are a prime example of white supremacists. I don't deny that there are countless examples of racist policies and actions throughout our history. But, I also know that there are countless examples of figures and policies throughout our history which opposed racist ideology. Like it or not, there are some good things about our countries past. As far as the "conservative prick" thing, with all due respect sir, I don't have to prove anything to you. I am a lifelong democrat, probably more moderate than you but maybe not. I have fought and bled for my country and despite it's shortcomings I believe in patriotism ans still believe that it is the best country to ever grace the face of the plane. If that offends you, then I guess that I am a "conservative prick".
"I do deny that this country has a white supremacist past."
"I don't deny that there are countless examples of racist policies and actions throughout our history."
Huh??? I'm confused.
When did I compare America to Nazi Germany? Contrary to what you may think I love this country in spite of its past. I accept the good with the bad. I even enlisted in the ANG only not to be able to serve due to reconstructive knee surgery. Of course there are good things about this country past, but I don't turn a blind eye to our often ugly history (Native Americans, slavery, Lynching, Church bombings, Chicago/LA riots, segregation, jim crow, etc).
So with all due respect, you still have not identified what Preston said that was in fact revisionist. So please elaborate.
First of all there is a a clear and defined difference in white supremacy and racist policies. All racists are not white supremacists. The white supremacy ideology was taken to the extreme by Nazi Germany. You seem to agree that this country has a wihte supremacist past therefore you are in fact making the comparison between the United States and Nazi Germany. If looked at through your prism, then every American President until recently was not a racist but a white supremacist. Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyway, Preston indicated that this country was founded by white European Imperialist. That is straight out of the Karl Marx playbook. Our founding fathers were not imperialists. Most of the founders believed in isolationism. In the beginning our founders never sought to conquer other countries and dominate the affairs of weaker countries. Which, by the way is the definition of imperialism. to insinuate that people like Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Madison, Franklin, Paine, and others were imperialists is quite a stretch. Hence my belief that Preston's opinion was revisionist in nature. Preston also indicated that racism in this country was a derivitive of these imperialist policies and so to is the subsequent "racial arrogance white people unconciously practice". So from that Preston would have us believe that the racist ideas and practices of white people in this country have a root cause in the imperialistic attitudes of our founding fathers. Revisitionist? Surely not. I believe that our country is more than a "product of conquest of racism towards non-white cultures" like Preston says. You have demonstrated that you know plenty about the undesirable history in this country, sir. Why don't you enlighten us about some good things from a historical perspective. Be specific now.
Thank you! I may not agree with some of your points, but I respect the fact that your willing to have discourse and that is all I was trying to point out to you.
How do you feel about what we did to the people that were in the US prior to our countries founding? You can't just ignore the fact that this country was already occupied when European settlers came here.
That sure was terrible but it doesn't take away from the fact that our country was not founded by imperialists. I can't help but to take umbrage to that supposition.
What do you call starting from a small coastal strip and expanding across an entire continental land-mass?
Unfortunately, I would call it progress as would you since I assume that you reap the benefits of all the resources of our country just like everybody else.
Yeah, and the two to five million native Americans we manifest-destinied out of existence were just a little speed-bump to glorious progress.
Then here is what I suggest you do. Renounce your entitlement to the benefits that this country affords us. That way you will no longer feel guilty about living comfortably in a free nation since our progress has had it's price. You can't change the past, accept what happened and move on. Noone said that what happened is right. the question is what are you doing to help?
Your solution is what A? Ignore it the bad parts of our history because it isn't all flags waving, sparklers and apple pie?
Noone said that what happened is right.
No. You called it "progress."
But I get your point. By having the temerity to point out a negative aspect of the history of the United States, according to you I forfeit the right to live here. America demands blind loyalty, and anyone who thinks this country can and should do better should just get the hell out, is that right?
Preston was right the first time.
Look, all I can tell you is that you use historical deficiencies in our countries past to rationalize your disdain for our nation. Obviously, you grossly misinterpret my statments (content analysis is not your strong point) to attempt to make me out as one of these "America love it or leave it" types. I don't know if you do this out of insecurity or a realization that deep down you root for our country to do badly in all of it's endeavors, especially if those endeavors do not fit your far left ideology. My point is; if you really have a hard time reconciling our past with our present success then maybe you shouldn't participate in the benefits offerred by this country. To do so would by hypocritical, right? I mean why would you take advantage of our opportunities if they were built on mass murder by white european imperialist white supremacists? Wouldn't seem right to rail against that while at the same time living or pursuing the American dream now would it?
Jack, you don't know me or anything about me, other than that I bring up truths that make you uncomfortable.
Next time, try asking what I think.
maybe you should follow your own advice. Your wrong and you know it. I have had to point out at least three times today where you have been below the curve in the discussion. And the beat goes on.
Oh yeah, tell me oh great one, what are these undeniable truths that seem to make me so uncomfortable. I hit a nerve didn't I? You do deep down want America to fail? But you know what? I took a bullet and some shrapnel so we could both talk freely. I would do it again too. There is such a thing as a flag waiving liberal. The country used to be full of them. Unfortunately, far left radical thinking has destroyed my beloved Democratic party and taken it away from mainstream America. Wake up!!!!! You can't be crusader all your life.
You don't even know whether I am male or female, but you seem to have no problem telling me what I think.
If this country is based on anything, it is the right of people to disagree and work to make things better. I am sorry you don't see the value in looking critically at our history to try and understand our present.
I'll ask you the same thing I asked MHK then. Given that you want to take a lesson in history to understand the present, then what have you done to assist native americans in the present. That would certaintly qualify as a sacrifice for the greater good. If you are so appalled by the actions of the government toward native americans, what have you done to help besides talk and agree with everyone that what happened was terrible.
I don't understand why this bothers you so much. I just mentioned what is established history, nothing controversial, that native Americans were killed during the European colonisation of North America. I mentioned this in the context of the history of race relations, which is what we were discussing. Now I have to either leave the country or go work on a reservation somewhere.
Why can't you just discuss things rather than engaging in personal attacks?
Well, I have had to defend myself at every turn. In review, it is apparent that some of my statements may have been misdirected at you rather than at some others. You will have to understand that I made one comment about Preston's revisionist history lesson and all of a sudden I was taking heat from five different people. To be fair, I took the time to validate to my argument (admittingly after some prodding) and since that time the discussion has moved no further but has rather morphed into an attempt to make me into someone who does not think what happened to the native americans was all that bad. If you read carefully, I have never indicated anything of the sort. I merely pointed out that our country was not founded by imperialists. Only one person has since challenged that supposition. Instead I find myself continuing to fend off contextual discrepencies about native americans. As a result, those who disagree with my supposition that the United States was not founded by imperialists with a white supremacist agenda have not proven this is false. Most native americans died of smallpox and other diseases brought by whites. sure there are instances of this being done purposely but the fact remains that many tribes were wiped out because they had not been exposed to many "white germs". Sad, but true. There are surely also alot of instances in which government policy stole land rights and forced removals did cause physical death as well as cultural death. But, to put forth the idea that early americans were a cabal of greedy imperialists bent on genocide is not historically accurate. There are mountains of historical data which indicate that our government did do some good things during that time. Jefferson was a consumate diplomat in dealing with Indian affairs. Again, my overall point has been since you guys have such ill feelings towards the history of this country and feel that grave injustices have been done to a group of people, then it seems that we all have a responsibility to make up for that. so here we are full circle. What have you done to help native americans Valentenia?
What would you call it?
Really? And when we took half of Mexico? The Phillipeans? Overthrew democracies in Iran in 53, Guatemala in 54, The Dominican Republic in 64, Brazil in 64, and Chile in 73 and replaced them with military dictatorships that wasnt Imperialist? Were we perhaps just making the world safe for dictatorships? Look, our country has done a lot of good but we have a history we need to face also. Pretending we dont is a recipe for allowing it to continue.
The white supremacy ideology was taken to the extreme by Nazi Germany.
I don't really get this - their beef was with the Jews, who are white people. There was no white/black issue in Germany in the prewar era.
Preston made his (his?) position very clear, to wit: "the country is a product of conquest and racism towards non-white cultures which were considered "inferior" by the European Imperialists." This country was founded by the British, who are Europeans, and who made it a part of their Empire. George Washington fought Native Americans during the French and Indian Wars as a loyal British subject. Subsequent Presidents of the United States systematically enacted what is currently termed "ethnic cleansing" on the Native American peoples. This is all a matter of historical record, not "revisitionist" at all.
I don't see where Preston maintained that this was the whole story of America, but it is certainly a significant part of it, especially with regards to the current issue.
In any case, thanks for making a coherent argument, it is much more interesting this way.
I don't have the time nor the inclination to give you a discourse on the Aryan/white supremacy ideology in Nazi Germany. the jewish people were not the only ones slaughtered wholesale and the temperment of the Nazi's was that no race other than pure aryan blood was worth keeping. As far as Preston's comments I can only respond to what he specifically stated which is that this country was founded by white European Imperialists. I fear you are spinning.
I can only respond to what he specifically stated which is that this country was founded by white European Imperialists.
We are waiting for your response.
Unless "no, they weren't" is all you've got...
Who is "we"? And what, pray tell are you specifically waiting for?
I am specifically waiting for you to specifically respond to the specific statement that the specific people that founded this specific country, specifically, were white European imperialists.
Good god girl, how many times do I have to do that. Did you not read my posting to Monkj8 or whatever. I pointed out that to classify the people that founded this nation during our revolution as imperialists was ill defined. Let me put it to you this way: the founding of this country was not an imperialistic action. I could write you a dissertation but I feel as though you can read and research this for yourself.
That wasn't hard was it?
First of all there is a a clear and defined difference in white supremacy and racist policies. All racists are not white supremacists. The white supremacy ideology was taken to the extreme by Nazi Germany. You seem to agree that this country has a wihte supremacist past therefore you are in fact making the comparison between the United States and Nazi Germany.
You are correct to an extent. Using people as slaves, clasifying them as less than human and denying the them the same rights as "white people" is white supremacy if you ask me. As you stated "The white supremacy ideology was taken to the extreme by Nazi Germany." this is not to say that it was not present in this country and that is evident by it's past treatment of blacks in this country.
If looked at through your prism, then every American President until recently was not a racist but a white supremacist. Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyway, Preston indicated that this country was founded by white European Imperialist. That is straight out of the Karl Marx playbook. Our founding fathers were not imperialists. Most of the founders believed in isolationism. In the beginning our founders never sought to conquer other countries and dominate the affairs of weaker countries. Which, by the way is the definition of imperialism. to insinuate that people like Jefferson, Washington, Adams, Madison, Franklin, Paine, and others were imperialists is quite a stretch.
I have no way of knowing that and nor have I claimed that, but the fact is they didn't change the laws to make all men equal, they didn't allow every a right to vote. They didn't allow blacks the right to an education. They didn't entitle blacks to the pursuit of happyness. They didn't abolish slavery. Maybe white supremcay isn't exactly the most appropriate term, but what would you call it?
Hence my belief that Preston's opinion was revisionist in nature. Preston also indicated that racism in this country was a derivitive of these imperialist policies and so to is the subsequent "racial arrogance white people unconciously practice". So from that Preston would have us believe that the racist ideas and practices of white people in this country have a root cause in the imperialistic attitudes of our founding fathers.
I don't interpret his statement as an absolute, but it does hold some truth. On that note I would have to disagree with you.
Revisitionist? Surely not. I believe that our country is more than a "product of conquest of racism towards non-white cultures" like Preston says.
There are aspects of this country's establishment that are directly a "product of conquest of racism towards non-white cultures" or do you believe that slave labor in the south was inconsequential to the development of our economy?
You have demonstrated that you know plenty about the undesirable history in this country, sir. Why don't you enlighten us about some good things from a historical perspective. Be specific now.
I love the diversity of this country. I love the oppurtunities available in this country even though I acknowledge that in "some" instances there are people the will have it easier than others. I love our constitution and Bill of rights when it is upheld properly. I love the fact that despite such an ugly past and persisting obstacles we have come so far and continue to show such great potential.
So how does it feel to actually have a conversation?
"so, how does it feel to actually have a conversation?" Sir, with all due respect, how does that snide condescending remark add to congenial discourse? Now it is my turn, please be specific concerning historical moments in our nations history that you are proud of and any which have made us a better people? How hard is that?
This is the VERY LONG History of Global European Imperialism: Genocide and Slavery against the Native Americans: http://www.wicocomico-indian-nation.com/pages/genocide.html http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/aiholocaust.html http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/aeti-1997/native-americans.html http://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/GeoRegions/NorthAmerica/UnitedStates02.htm (source: University of Dayton) http://www.lcsc.edu/elmartin/historybehindthenews/Spring%202005/Delema.htm (source: Lewis Clark State College) Genocide and Slavery Against the Black People: http://web.cocc.edu/cagatucci/classes/hum211/timelines/htimeline3.htm (source: Central Oregon Community College Archives) http://www.marion.ohio-state.edu/fac/vsteffel/web182/Imp-1.html (source: Ohio State University at Marion) http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/westn/imperialism.html (source: Sunnfolk College Archives) http://mars.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/world/lectures/imperialism.html (source: West New England College Online Library) http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+za0022) (source: Library of Congress | Federal Research Division) European Imperialism and Conquest of India: http://www.mrdowling.com/612-british.html http://members.ozemail.com.au/~clday/background.htm http://www.lcsc.edu/modernchina/u3s3p4.htm (source: Lewis Clark State College) http://www.lcsc.edu/modernchina/u3s3p1.htm (source: Lewis Clark State College) http://www.lcsc.edu/modernchina/u3s3p3.htm (source: Lewis Clark State College) European Imperialism and Colonization of Asia: http://www.marion.ohio-state.edu/fac/vsteffel/web182/Imp-4.html (source: Ohio State University at Marion) http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/OTTOMAN/EUROPE.HTM (source: Washington State University) http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/eastasia/eastasiasbook.html#The%20Western%20Intrusion The extent of Global European Imperialism as it stands today: http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pol116/colonies.htm (source: Mount Holyoke College Archives) http://www.fresno.k12.ca.us/divdept/sscience/history/imperialism_colonialism.htm http://mclane.fresno.k12.ca.us/wilson98/Assigments/ImpCH11.html The origins of Global European Imperialism: http://www.michaelparenti.org/Imperialism101.html (source: political scientist / history professor Dr. Michael Parenti) Imperialism, Sovereignty and the Making of International Law: http://www.cambridge.org/asia/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521828929 Chronology of the history of Racism and Slavery in the United States: http://library.stanford.edu/africa/history/hislavery.html (source: Standford University) http://innercity.org/holt/slavechron.html http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAslavery.htm (the history of the Slave Trade) http://www.sonofthesouth.net/slavery/history-slavery.htm (the African Slave Trade | Historical Documents)
You DO? Ever hear of slavery? Jim Crow? Japanese internment? No country is perfect. We have our wounds. They cannot be excised from history. Those who forget their past are doomed to repeat it as Santayana said
Well stop acting like one! Saying that I'm a far left revisionists when I've read history books by the greatest scholars is something I would hear from a closed-minded, isolated, self-righteous conservative. First, you didn't read my any of my other messages because I -- a black man who is a proud Southerner -- has taken up for Imus and condemned both Sharpton and Jackson. But you're so in a hurry to post a message back to me as if I'm trying to paint all whites as racist against blacks, you fail to even see that I'm not on the bandwagon to have Imus fired. I think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion by BOTH Sharpton and Jackson. So I don’t know where you get off thinking that I’m taking up for either of them and trying to trash Imus by debunking some of the nasty claims that many trolls here are saying in their defense of Imus racially-charged statement.
Now I apologize for calling you a prick because I'm usually not someone who throws out insults like that against people. But you need to be careful with the people you pick arguments with and learn where their stance on certain issues.
Revisionist?
Uh.. what in his post was incorrect? Have you become so well-versed in getting over it that you've gotten over a little thing called the Facts?
Again, our founding fathers were not imperialists. Look up the definition, read their biographies, to call them imperialists is a revisionist practice. Jesus! How hard is this. Why do you people hate our country?
That was weak.
So you can't acknowledge the problems of our history without hating america?
You keep trying to downplay what the USA did to the original owners of this landmass, why do you hate them so much? See how not cool it is to use arguments like that?
If you dislike the term imperialism what would you prefer?
Definitions of Genocide on the Web:
Genocide is probably more accurate.
First Native Americans did not believe in land ownership. Secondly, you consitently focus on negative aspects of this countries history. Negative thinking pervades your arguments. What it appears that you like is a discourse in which a bunch of you get together and talk about how bad our country has been. I guess that is valid, but how about a little positive thought.
Do you know anything about the Ho-Chunk? Not all Native American tribes are the same. Your correct in that they didn't write up a deed to the land they occupied, but they pretty much hung out in the same area around lake Winnebago in Wisconsin. We are discussing an ugly topic therefore some of the issues are going to be negative. Are you so Polly Anna in your ideology of our countries history that you cannot hear any criticism? I love our country, in fact I love our country so much that I'm willing to do whatever I can to ensure that we do not continue down the same dark path. I want to make sure that we don't forget or marginalize our history in fear that we might repeat the same mistakes.
I'm a political science major and my focus is constitution law. I'm not sure what more you can ask from someone then to dedicate their career to the document that our government was founded on. I don't appreciate your cheap shots in questioning my patriotism and to be honest I think your using them as a tool to divert the conversation from the question at hand.
What in the world are you talking about? I applaud your ambition, but let's be realistic here. You know nothing of sacrifice for your country, but yet you reap the benefits of those who have. I have never questioned your patriotism and that statement is nothing more than a diversion in and of itself. By the way, there was no understanding of land ownership in native american tribes. By deducting it to the idea that they did not have deeds you are simply infusing the type of imperialistic thought that you seem to rail against.
You know nothing of sacrifice for your country
Again with the mind reading. Have you ever met MHK? Who was it that gave you the right to sit in judgment of all of us?
O.K. fine. Tell me what you have done to sacrifice for your country.
Ask MHK.
You’re assuming that the native people did not feel a sense of ownership for the area of land that they inhabited because it doesn't fit your definition of "ownership". I used the Ho-Chunk as an example as they were not nomadic and stayed in the same area up to the point that the American government forced them to move. What was your point in the first place because they didn't "own" the land in your meaning of the word, we were justified in forcing them to move? "Why do you people hate our country?"
Did you or did you not just post this before? Are you suffering from posting amnesia?
"O.K. fine. Tell me what you have done to sacrifice for your country"
Why are you asking this? Are you looking for recognition for your sacrifice or are you handing out valuable cash prizes to the person who has sacrificed the most?
I get a kick out of your petty rebuttals. First of all, you are assuming that native americans did have a sense of ownership, but let's be honest. You don't know that for sure. As I stated before, it is well documented that native americans had NO UNDERSTANDING of land ownership. How then would they have a sense of ownership that you are so sure of. Secondly, I posted the "why do you hate America" one time. Wake up. I know that you were probably that kid that never got picked to play ball in the schoolyard but you can at least pay attention. And lastly, it's a simple question. What sacrifices have you made for your country? Don't dance around the question with your clever little analogies. Or better yet, since you have such a emotional opinion on the U.S. Governments treatment of native americans, what have you done about it. Have you volunteered at any reservations, have you used your education to help underprivaleged native children? Or do you simply just sit around in study groups and discuss what we did wrong and then resume your comfortable standard of living while the native people whom you seem to care so much about continue to live in squalor.
"As I stated before, it is well documented that native americans had NO UNDERSTANDING of land ownership."
I guarantee you they understood the concept much more clearly when they were enslaved, murdered, and driven by the thousands to barren wastes that the good white people didn't want to live in - driven far from the homes and lands they'd grown to know and thrive and into less habitable environments that they could be controlled in.
Your patronizing and white-washing approach to American history turns my stomach. I cannot fathom how you've been able to convince yourself of the righteousness of your Manifest Destiny views on history, but I can certainly say that this kind of irresponsible and arrogant behavior is one of many reasons why we're at war in the Middle East, and one of the many reasons we're repeatedly targets of terrorist organizations. Thanks for your contribution to this great nation.
I'll ask you like the others. What has been your contribution to this nation other than to point out past government abuses? How have I whitewashed history? Have I ever denied that genocidal actions were taken against native americans? My point is simply, what have you done personally to make up for this? None of you have an answer. That tells me that alll you can do is sit around and talk about how bad our government has been and is but you do nothing about it.
I think you are hung up on the 'founding fathers' bit- do you just mean the past presidents and those responsible for the Bill of Righs and the Constitution? I think the others, and me included, are talking about ALL the people and institutions that have influenced history since the Plymoth Voyager disccovered America...
If that is the approach you want to take then fine. If so, dont lecture me on being specific. I responded to the notion that "this country was founded by European Imperialists. If you want to lump the voyagers who landed on plymouth as imperialists I'm all ears. The fact is, that is a real stretch and you know it. Furthermore, colonies such as Jamestown were historically amiable to the natives and the British Crown had a policy of peaceful development with the native tribes. If you want to point to the spanish conquistadors that certaintly is a valid point in terms of imperialism. But to indicate that the earliest colonies were here only to force the native inhabitants to submit to the will of a larger nation is a fallacy.
I agree, the Pilgrims aren't the best example of trying to show imperialism, but, the point is that the Europeans just kept on coming and by sheer numbers and weapons conquered much the U.S. Also, you were talking about reading biographies- have you ever read Columbus' bio. I think it's called 'The Voyages'. It's good reading...
Haven't read that. Thanks for the info, I will check that out. Look, Mr.L I know that the systematic destruction of native american tribes took place in this country. It is a sad thing. But, the fact of the matter is that despite those misgivings a great nation was born. We have come a long way, but to consistently point to the bad things, does nothing but for lack of a better term; continually diagnose the problem and never look for a cure. The United States is fundamentally a good country, sure we have done bad things but in comparison and given the outcome of our development I truly believe that the greater good was served.
There is NO free speech issue here NONE, this has been explained ad nauseam. He has NO free speech right to a radio show. When he is arrested for talking like this get back to us.
Bill Maher
I applaud Bill Maher for going on the Imus show today. Both agreed Bush was the and is the "Worst President Ever' Also did we forget Imus was on of the few telling America in 2005 that Bush and his Administration ignored the Katrina Victims because they were black? Imus is a voice against this War. I was so disgusted at Matt Lauer and Al Sharpton on the Today Show this morning. The Today show a place where they give Ann Coulter a forum to hate toward the 9/11 Widows, where was Matt Lauers outrgage at that? Phonies. Imus has my support, anyone who speaks out against Bush and his crimes has my support.
So similar to how Tawana Brawley made everything Al Sharpton said subsequent to that event necessarily wrong, everything Imus said and will say after criticizing Bush is necessarily right.
Life is easy in a world of absolutes.
imus should stop playing. like the article posted yesterday on this endless issue of racism, a bunch of pity party members whining about a comment made by a person who is paid a handsome figure for generating controversy, interest, and talk. as long as the baby boomers are alive imus will be popular. the airwaves do not belong to the public. the airwaves were purchased from the u.s. government auctions and owned by large corporations that own or operate radio stations so that the "company" will make money from you, the market. if you don't like what is broadcast on a station, then change the channel AND don't patronize the advertizers. effective action? no doubt. stop complaining. when imus retires there will be somebody else there and that may be more offensive. we all need to pick our battles and to be careful what we ask for. we may get it.
Good God, Linda, will you please just stop! Your incoherent, stream-of-consciousness ramblings will never entice an intellectual discussion. Using terms such as "pity party" will do nothing but label you a complete and utter moron. Just stop....please!
thank you preston for the compliment. you being the racist moron that you are cannot contribute one pittance of substance or valuable information to the conversation. you keep blathering on about hundreds of years ago and how horrible the europeans were. gee were you here then?
Fantastic Linda. It is people like Preston, whose psuedo intellectual blathering give real progressives a bad name. Ultra right wingers blather on about what is wrong, Ultra left wingers blather on about why things are wrong and meanwhile fair minded independent people pay taxes.
I think we may have a retarded love connection here.
psuedo intellectual? You mean like throwing around names and attacking someone without actually addressing any of content of thier argument?
Hey, there, Linda.... I have an idea- lett's play pretend... Let's say you live in a nice place outdoors where you can grow food, live a nice life and have a caring community, with no guns around. Then, one day, Me and my buddies come to your neighborhood with guns, kill a bunch of you, shackle the stong ones to chains, and ship you in a boat overseas to work as slaves until you die. Now, while you are toiling away at my plantattion crops (remember, free markets are the way to go! I'm just part of the corporate machine doing my duty to help get money!), missing your dead family and getting whipped by me because you are disgusting and vile and sub-human in my eyes, you start thinking maybe things will get better. The problem is me and my buddies raise our children to hate you and your kind, and to continue to enslave you and call you bad names, lynch you, rape you, and dispose of you when you become weak. Now fast forward 175 years... yeah, some do-goodin' left wing zealots apparently persuaded the government to let you be free (without giving you any land to live on, or money to to land, THANK GOD!) but me and my buddies STILL hate you and your kind, we STILL hang you high, we STILL don't give youu equal access to education, healthcare, housing, and jobs, we STILL call you names all the f*cking time because we want to continue to see you as apes, we STILL have hate groups whose sole purpose is to enslave you again, we STILL have police who beatt you up because you have the audacity to have a nice car or date a white woman, we STILL incarcerate and execute you and your kind unjustly because we can, we STILL just won't let you be equal in our eyes!! GET IT?! And, if you, Linda, DARE to complain or fight for equality, me and my buddies will just say 'GET OVER IT, YOU MONKEYS!', and we will STILL say you live in America, the playing field is all level now... so, Linda.... how do you feel now?
MR.L: YOU ARE SO BUSY PONDERING WHAT HAPPENED IN THE 19TH CENTURY THAT YOU ARE NOT SEEING WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE 21ST. THAT'S HISTORY AND I GET IT. HOWEVER, YOUR POSTING SCREAMS THAT YOU ARE A RACIST. YOU SEEM TO BELIEVE THAT ANY OTHER HUMAN WHO IS NOT BLACK HATES YOU AND THINKS THAT YOU CAME FROM A MONKEY. TEACH YOUR CHILDREN THAT SAME BELIEF AND THINGS WILL NOT EVER CHANGE. NOW I REALLY KNOW WHERE THE YOUNG BLACKS GET THEIR HOPELESSNESS FROM. YOU ARE CONDITIONING NOT ONLY YOURSELF WITH THE NEGATIVE REINFORCEMENT BUT ANYONE WITHIN EARSHOT. ANOTHER PITY PARTY MEMBER? YES. FROM THE VARIOUS POSTINGS, THE IDEA OF "PITY PARTY" DOES NOT SIT WELL. THIS IS THE WAY I DESCRIBE THOSE WHO ARE LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY OR IF THEY ARE NOT A MEMBER, EMPATHY FOR THEIR SELF DESCRIBED PLIGHT CAUSED BY SOMEBODY ELSE. LIFE IS A TOUGH ROW TO HOE NO MATTER WHERE YOU COME FROM AND WHO YOUR ANCESTORS WERE.
LINDA!!!!! I WAS TRYING TO POINT OUT THAT SLAVERY, IMPERIALISM, AND RACISM WAS HORRIBLE TO BEGIN WITH BUT THATT ITS RAMIFICATIONS ARE STILL BEING FELT TODAY!!! THIS IS THE 21ST CENTURY WHERE WHITE PEOPLE STILL CALL BLACK WOMEN COLLEGE ATHLETES 'NAPPY HEADED HOS'!!! THAT IS NOT RIGHT AND SHOULD NOT BE BROADCAST TO MILLIONS OF IMPRESSIONABLE LISTENERS WHO MIGHT ACTUALLY BELIVE WHAT IMUS SAID. HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND IF I CALLED YOU A FAT, STINKING, SAND N*GGGER WH*RE WHO IS ONLY GOOD FOR BREEDING??? WELL, ACCORDING TO YOU, YOU WOULD 'GET OVER IT' AND NOT LISTEN TO ME- GREAT, NOW WHAT IF I SAID IT TO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO MIGHT GET THE IMPRESSION THAT YOU ARE A FAT, STINKING, SAND N*GGER WH*RE WHO IS ONLY GOOD FOR BREEDING??? GET OVER IT???
MR.L: YOU ARE SAYING A WHOLE LOT MORE ABOUT THESE YOUNG WOMEN THAN IMUS SAID, BASED ON YOUR OWN ASSUMPTIONS OR WHAT YOU HAVE LEARNED. IT'S BAD ENOUGH FOR IMUS TO SAY WHAT HE SAID, BUT FOR YOU TO BROADCAST THESE UNKIND EPITHETS IS INDICATIVE OF YOUR UPBRINGING.
Linda you're now offically mental or have the worst reading skills ever!
Don't blame her ITS THE CAPS AND LACK OF PUNCTUATION! I CANT EVEN READ MY OWN WRITING LIKE THIS!!
V ARE YOU HAVING A PITY PARTY FOR LINDA? WHY ARE YOU BLAIMING HER INCOHRENT RAMBLINGS ON THE FACT THAT SHE TYPES IN ALL CAPS AND DOESN'T LIKE TO USE PERIODS, HER BRIAN OR THE RETURN KEY? ARE YOU SOME KIND OF RACIST?
ROAR!
LINDA!!! FINALLY, SOME COMMON GROUND. YES, THEY ARE UNKIND EPITHETS, JUST LIKE IMUS, SAVAGE, O'LIELLY, AND LIMBAUGH DO ALL THE FREAKIN' TIME!!! THEY ARE HURTFUL AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO GO UNCHALLENGED BY THOSE THATT FIND THEM OFFENSIVE!!! BESIDES THAT, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOU. I WAS MAKING AN ANALOGY TO SHOW THAT THE GENESIS OF RACISM AND IMPERIALISM IN AMERICA DID NOT END IN THE 19TH, OR 20TH, OR 21ST CENTURY. IT IS STILL HERE TODAY AND CAUSES DEPRESSION, FEELINGS OF UNWORTHINESS, PREJUDICE, HATE, LONLINESS, EXCLUSION FROM OTHERS, PESSIMISM, FATALISM, AND A HOST OF OTHER THINGS THAT DEFINE THE PYSCHE OF THOSE WHO ARE BEING TARGETED BY RACIST AHOLES WHO SPEW THEIR GARBAGE TO MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. THE MIND SET OF THE ATTACKED MINORITY COUPLED WITH THE CONSTANT AND EVER-PRESENT, STILL HERE PREJUDICED, RACIST ACTIONS AND WORDS BY PEOPLE LIKE IMUS DO NOT HELP ANY PEOPLE AT ALL. THEY REINFORCE NEGATIVE STEROTYPES THAT SHOULDN'T BE AROUND, AND, SINCE THEY ARE ATTACKING PEOPLE BASED UPON SKIN COLOR, ETTHNICITY AND GENDER, THEY ARE SHOWING THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE NOT GOTTEN THE MEMO THAT RACISM, SEXISM, ETC. ARE NOT TO BE TOLERATED THESE DAYS OR ANY DAYS. THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!!!
Linda, please, you're a complete moron and I bring up history because when people like you try to divert attention from how history has conditioned minorities and put the blame solely on the victims, I give you a reality check as to why certain things turned out the way they are now. All you can do is cite how we're in the "pity party" and can't see how great his country is. That doesn’t change the great injustice America has done to people of color.
I’ve repeated this in another thread but I’m going to post it again. In order to get to the root of modern day racism, people must first be educated on the history of Global European Imperialism. Throughout the ages, European Expansionism / Colonialism has been responsible for bringing foreign ideas (ideas both good and bad) to Non-European cultures. For the most part however, this global expansionist / colonialist drive to occupy other people's lands has led to a very long series of oppressions, massacres, and imperialist doctrines which promoted open slavery, and overt racism. Global European Imperialism has literally shaped the entire power structure of society, from bottom up. Additionally, the maintenance and influence of that power is filtered from the top (the elite) to the bottom (the masses) of the hierarchy. Generation after generation, people become increasingly conditioned inside of this system. Almost all the major institutions of power and influence in the United States and Canada (to name a few), whether it be within the business sector, to the educational system, to the political system, to the media industry, and to the financial system, are controlled by White people (usually White men at the very top). This is how Institutionalized Racism is maintained, through a multi-faceted system stemming from Global European Imperialism. In other words, the entire system has been rigged to make it easier for White people (especially White men) to succeed AND maintain that power structure over others.
FACT: Institutionalized Racism plays a very significant central role in that system because it covertly gives privileges to one group, while covertly denying those same privileges to other groups. An example of those privileges is White Privilege.
Racism will continue to exist because Internet racists like you, when confronted with overwhelming factual evidence and history, will continue to downplay racism as unimportant - and it is because you choose to downplay it that makes you more likely to practice it, since you simply do not care. Your lack of feeling and lack of human value towards other races is the very reason why you have chosen to be ignorant of history. It is only through learning about the roots of the racial paradigms that exist today will people ever gain the human sensitivity towards other races.
By knowing the roots of racism, people will actually begin to see the sufferings of other cultures and they will also know why historically oppressed / enslaved cultures are at a severe psychological disadvantage today. And it is through that understanding of other culture’s sufferings caused by European Imperialism will people be able to gain the honesty and humanity to fight racism in today’s' world.
Sadly, since you have chosen to be ignorant, you have become apathetic. And because of your apathy, you are consciously or subconsciously participating in the maintenance of hidden racism in today's society.
Linda you are a comlete moron. Yesterday you admitted you were in fact a proud racist.
LIKE EVERYONE HERE, YOU TOO ARE A RACIST. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND ME IS THAT YOU ARE IN DENIAL. ANOTHER PITY PARTY MEMBER. IF YOU READ MY POSTS YOU WILL KNOW I DO NOT APPROVE OF IMUS' COMMENT. THAT'S OKAY I HAVE ALREADY ADMITTED TO BEING A RACIST I'M SIMPLY NOT IN DENIAL ABOUT IT.
and yet you keep pulling out this completely BS defense mechanism of calling everyone else rascist to somehow justify your own ignorance. You make no sense and you aren't doing yourself any favors by reminding us of that fact.
Amen to that brother, but Linda isn't worth the effort of your very reasoned post, in fact your posts are completely lost on the Lindas that comes to these boards. All they do is holler about how sensitive those damn minorities are but howel like a you know what the minute their feelings are hurt. Glen Beck's recent assertion about the White Christian Males not being "popular" is prime example of this. The truth is if these wussies had to walk around in our skins for a life time they'd never survive.
I like what you said about native americans. Yes, we have a dark history (no pun intended), but Linda has a point.
She does. Unfortunatly its on the top of her head.
the airwaves do not belong to the public. the airwaves were purchased from the u.s. government auctions and owned by large corporations
Wrong. The auctions are a method for selecting licensees. Ownership of the "airwaves" remains with the public. See more here: http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/default.htm?job=about_auctions
AND WHO ARE THE LICENSEES?
I'm sorry. Apparently nobody ever sat you down and explained the definition of "license".
A "License" gives you permission to do something. It does not give you ownership.
Would you care to restate your argument, now that you have knowledge you did not have previously, or just abandon the whole thing?
WELL, YOU CAN SCREAM AS LOUD AS YOU WANT BUT THAT IS THE LICENSE YOU GET FROM FREE SPEECH. WHERE LICENSING IS CONCERNED, THERE ARE SEVERAL OPTIONS BUT AS IT PERTAINS TO THE BROADCASTING INDUSTRY, THE LICENSE MUST BE PURCHASED. WHO WOULD PURCHASE A LICENSE, AT A COST OF MILLIONS OF AMERICAN DOLLARS AND NOT PUT IT TO USE? EVEN THE SHORT WAVE PEOPLE MUST HAVE A LICENSE.
OK, I get it now, this must be an act. You can't be that dense.
At this point, I am more outraged at the growing chorus of white voices defending Imus (not just on this website, but in my pseudoliberal SoCal town) than I am about the original comments.
To my white brethren and sistren: try asking yourselves why blacks can't "just get over" slavery, lynching, Jim Crow, Bull Connor, miscegenation laws, minstrel shows, hate crimes, "Giuliani time" and vote tampering. Take just, like, thirty seconds out of your busy day to imagine how you would feel if your people were subjected to outrages of this nature over hundreds of years, and were then expected to sit docilely by as some of your best and brightest young women were called derogatory names on public television.
There has never been a group of titty-babies more whiny-ass than the modern American white. Please, for the love of God, get out of your self-righteous bubbles for a second and try to see things from a different point of view.
val: talk about racism! as i said before and i'll say it again, we are all racists. there is NO DEGREE OF RACISM. YOU ARE OR YOU ARE NOT. PERIOD.
I agree. You are, I am. I'm doing my damndest to recognise my racism, acknowledge it, try not to make it any worse.
You are doing... what again?
She's posting endlessly that she is a racist, acknowledges it, is planning a pity party for herself and wishes anybody who doesn't think that's just super should GET OVER IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THERE IS NO DEGREE OF RACISM. THIS IS MY INESCAPABLE POINT.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?
I think she means you're either a Racist or your not. You can't be sort of a racist. No gray area perhaps?
SHOULD I BE YELLING THIS? ;-)
I actually agree with that. I guess what I don't get is where "sort of racist" entered into the discussion.
But then again, I wear a hockey helmet most of the time.
JETER2: NO GRAY AREA. THESE POSTERS DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THE WORD RACE. THE WORD IS USED TO DEFINE FAMILY OR BREED BELONGING TO THE SAME STOCK, TRIBE, INHERITED DISTINCTIONS, COMMON INTERESTS, RELIGION, ETC. I KNOW OF NO HUMAN BEING THAT HAS NOT RELATED A NEGATIVE CONNOTATION TO ANY OF THE ABOVE DESCRIPTIONS OR DISTINCTIONS. RACISM IS A FORM OF OPENLY OR PRIVATELY DISCERNING A PARTICULAR DISTINCTION OF A PEOPLE OR PERSON. WE ALL DO IT. SOMETIMES CASUALLY AND SOMETIMES IN A DISDAINFUL MANNER BUT IT'S STILL RACISM. THIS IS THE HUMAN CONDITION AND EVEN THOUGH A DISTINCTION DOES NOT COMPLETELY DEFINE A PEOPLE OR A PERSON THE DISTINCTION CANNOT BE DENIED AS A PART OF THE WHOLE. THIS IS WHY I BELIEVE WE ARE ALL RACIST.
AS FAR AS THE SLAVERY ISSUE IS CONCERNED I DO NOT FEEL RESPONSIBLE. WHEN THINKING ABOUT THAT TIME I FEEL SORROW FOR THOSE SOULS. THERE IS VALUE IN LEARNING ABOUT HISTORY BUT WE CANNOT RELENTLESSLY AGONIZE ABOUT IT OR CONTINUE TO LET IT DOMINATE OUR LIVES. WE HEAR ABOUT THE SIX MILLION WHO WERE ABUSED, STARVED, AND THEN KILLED BECAUSE OF THEIR RACE. DO I FEEL RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS? NO. AM I SAD WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT TIME AND THE SUFFERING. YES.
RACISM IS A FORM OF OPENLY OR PRIVATELY DISCERNING A PARTICULAR DISTINCTION OF A PEOPLE OR PERSON.
Linda, words generally have specific, agreed-upon meanings. Your definition of racism is one I have never seen, and one that looks very much like you made it up.
By and large, it's easier to debate if you use the same meanings of words as others.
LOOK IT UP THEN. W E B S T E R S.
No, you look it up.
LOOK UP THE WORD I CITED, RACE.
You purported to define the word racism, and it was THAT definition I objected to.
NO I DID NOT PURPORT RACISM. I CLEARLY WROTE RACE. IT'S OK. BUT NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND MY BELIEF THAT RACISM IS A PART OF EVERY HUMAN BEINGS LIFE? RACISM IS PART OF DISCERNMENT THAT WE ALL LEARN TO USE. SOME USE IT TO HURT SOME USE IT TO LEARN. HATE IS THE CULPRIT AND HATE IS ALSO LEARNED BUT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO OVERCOME AFTER LIVING WITH IT DURING OUR YOUTH. HATE IS THE ULTIMATE EVIL.
You clearly wrote "RACISM IS A FORM OF OPENLY OR PRIVATELY DISCERNING A PARTICULAR DISTINCTION OF A PEOPLE OR PERSON" but it's OK. I do understand your belief, but I have to tell you that it has nothing to do with racism as the rest of us, including Merriam-Webster, define it.
I USE THE WORD DISCERNING INSTEAD OF THE WORD JUDGING MAINLY BECAUSE WE LEARN TO USE DISCERMENT AS A TOOL AT AN EARLY AGE AND IT'S MORE BASIC THAN PASSING JUDGEMENT. IT IS CLEAR TO ME THAT, AS AN ADULT, YOU WOULD PREFER TO USE THE WORD JUDGING. MY MAIN OBJECTION TO IT IS THAT JUDGING IS MORE REACTIONARY THAN HAVING TO USE REASON. PERHAPS I TEND TO OVER ANALYSE MY THINKING.
Let me help you out, you are not overanalyzing. You are not analyzing at ALL. You are posting random thought and hoping they are in the general area of reality even when you have no idea what you are talking about like with the airwaves. What you are doing is the equivelent of letting your brain leak randomly away through your fingers to the keyboard. Everytime I read one of your posts all I can think is I want that last two minutes of my life back
I believe Linda's view, in a nutshell, is that everybody is racist because she is, and there are no varying degrees of being racist. Therefore, everybody in the world is completely racist, there's nothing we can do about it, so have a pity party and GET OVER IT !!!
I just need to know if it's a BYOB pity party?
Bring Your Own Bigot?
Clever ;-)
So which one of you is bringing Linda as your date?
I bring her, but I don't think she would date a black guy.
I'll bring her, I'll have to remember to bring protection (earplugs).
what about protection for the rest of us? (ball gag)
You are suffering from the delusion common among many rightwingnuts that if you repeat something enough it will magically become true. IT WONT. Everyone is NOT a racist and you cannot read minds nor hearts so can speak only for yourself. I accept your self described racism. Fine, YOU are a racist, I am not. You dont know me and cannot possibly state with ANY authority ANYTHING about me. Give up your delusions about your amazing mind reading powers that allow you to tell us we are racists. THEY. DON'T. EXIST.
how close is it to sweeps month?hmmmm!
To: Achrispap, Linda (take your medicine) and Leather
AL NOR JESSIE SPEAK FOR THE AFRICAN AMERICAN RACE. THE NEWS MEDIA AND WHITE FOLKS LIKE YOU HAVE APPOINTENTD THEM AS OUR SUPPOSE SPOKEPERSON!!!
We as race of people have thoughts and feelings of our own. We don't need a leader to speak for us as much as YOU need to have one speak for us. Get out into the world and live among people of all ages races and cultural differences and LEARN. Don't stay in you comfort zone of your white neighborhood and friends (if you have any other type of friends you wouldn't be so narrow minded). Base your comments on some type of personal knowledge instead of whatever previous "talking points" you've heard in the past .
Imus was wrong to call a group of college students what he did. He was right and sincere (I believe) in his apology. His employers suspended him for 2 weeks which was appropriate punishment. He should not be fired. I can say that about Imus because I don't fell he needs a "call to Jesus" but there are many of you who post here who really really do need "a call to Jesus moment".
I agree with you Pearl. I think this will actually make Imus a much better person and I believe the two weeks suspension is sufficient. I always believed that Imus knew what he was doing was wrong. I just could't understand why he kept doing it. Clarence Page spoke about how he believes that Imus is not a racist and he wen on to say but what do you do about a guy that keeps doing this racially charged and offensive humor. YOU TELL THEM ABOUT THEMSELEVES as Jeff Greenfield did this morning on the Imus show. I am have resume d watching the Imus show and I'm going to be looking for some real change there. To make a long story short I certainly forgive the man, because if a sincere I'm sorry is good enough for Jesus well you know the rest. None of us are perfect and thank God none of us are beyond redemption.
Hey Lynn,
I don't listen to Imus, but the guy seems to have a long history of making these kind of remarks. Since I feel like you & I have developed a cyber-friendship here at MMFA and I respect your opinions, could you please explain why you & others are so willing to forgive Imus? Is it simply because he apologized? Would you forgive Rush Limbaugh if he apologized for a racial slur?
See, I don't buy his apology and don't believe there would have been one if this hadn't blown up big time in his face. He would simply have continued with his slurs.
Jeter, I listen to his apology and he sounded sincere. If I want people to accept and understand when I make mistakes then I have to try to do the same.
You didn't ask me but I wanted to try to explain.
Pearlene,
Thank you for your response. Since I'm not an Imus listener [perhaps you are?] to me he's just one more person that got called on the carpet and had to apologize. That's why I wondered IF it was sincere. A great many folks weren't as willing to forgive Michael Richards, so that's one reason I found it so curious that Imus has almost universally been forgiven. This guy has a history of making insensitive racial slurs, but if you can find it in your heart to accept his apology, then you obviously have a heart of gold and I admire you for that :-)
Hey Jeter, The difference between Imus and the others you mentioned is that Imus never appeared to have a political agenda he was attempting to advance. His humor was dumb, juvenile, and hateful, but the guys that you mention seemed to be attempting to effect REAL policy that I feel is damaging to the historically weaker groups in society. I never heard Imus talk about the wonders of tax cuts or castigate the poor for being poor; and there was never what seem to be a widespread dumping on of Democratic minority politicians and celebrities like Rush does. Hell, Imus adores Harold Ford, but don't for a minute believe the hype that's coming from the right about Imus' political leanings. Imus is a self identified Republican, albeit a moderate one. I heard him say this with my own ears. Oh yeah, and I would forgive Limbaugh if I thought he were sincere and I saw that the tone of his rhetoric followed suit. People do change, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worst. For instance I believe that George Wallace's transformation from raving racist segregationists was completely sincere and was apart of a true spiritual awakening in him. I always believed that.
Gee Pearline. How do you know what race I am? (cue in twilight zone music) Quick, I am thinking of a number, what is it?
Martian? Venusian?
Those aren't even numbers, Lynn.
Sheesh...
As I said again, if you were anything other than what I think you are then your comments would have applied some type of knowledge. The fact that you think that Al and Jessie speak for the entire black race says it all.
Please indicate where I proclaimed that sharpton or jackson spoke for the entire black race. Be specific now, if you don't the rest of these guys are ready to call you on it.
So in other words, he's willing to play the game and pretend to apologize, but if there are going to be any REAL consequences, then he's going to come out fighting against what he sees as an injustice against HIM.
Everyone is twofaced
Not only is Imus two faced but so are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Why have they never demanded that KKK Robert Byrd resign? He was a member of the KKK. The defense is always "he has apologized" Yes he has and so has Imus, yet Imus never recruited for a Domestic Terror Organization like KKK Byrd did.
Its also two faced for FOX News to be attacking Imus, this is an organization that lets Ann Coulter spew her Homophobic hate.
This country smells right now.
That was a very long time ago and the issue is Imus not Senator Byrd who has dedicated most of his life to civil rights. He changed. Stick to the topic.
DORISRUSSEL: WRONG WRONG WRONG. YOU MUST ALWAYS TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHATS HAPPENED HISTORICALLY. EVEN FORTY YEARS AGO MATTERS TODAY. GET IT? IF YOU FOCUS ON "TODAY" YOU WILL BE LABLED AS AN IGNORANT MORON. FRANKLY, YOU WOULD BE IN THE BEST OF COMPANY.
Where did "nappy-headed hos" come from?
Which was Imus' greater offense, making fun of the Rutgers Women's basketball team or the using of street language to do it? Why do white men love African-American culture and want to emulate all manner of affectations?
If Imus had used his down home Western phraseology to put down the Rutgers' team, would we be posting comments about it?
Perhaps using African-American terms to put down African-Americans is like using the n-word, only blacks can used it.
I wonder if someone had said something critical about kids with cancer, would we have seen Imus who is famously irate when he feels he has been wronged said that it was indecent and over the line.
SCOUT29C: YOU ARE NOT DEALING WITH RATIONAL THINKING PEOPLE HERE WITH YOUR QUESTIONS. IT IS KINDA FUN TO LISTEN TO THEM PRATTLE ON ABOUT HOW HISTORY HAS OUTLINED THEIR PERSONAL FUTURE AS THOUGH THEY DON'T HAVE A BRAIN. BUT REGARDING IMUS, THERE IS ONLY ONE EXCUSE FOR HIS FAUX PAS, HE HAD A BRAIN FART AND HEAVEN FORBID HE REFER TO THESE BRIGHT, INTELLIGENT YOUNG WOMEN LIKE THESE POSTERS SPEAK. WE ALL KNOW IT NOT PC TO IMITATE THE SELF DESCRIBED SUPERIOR BLACK FOLK. SO DON'T DO IT OR YOU WILL BE SPANKED.
IF YOU ARE EXCUSING IMUS'S REMARKS AS A 'BRAIN FART' THEN PERHAPS HE SHOULD SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION AS HIS BRAIN HAS TURNED TO DIAHREA. LINDA, HIS COMMENTS WERE WRONG, HE HAS A HISTORY OF HATIN', AND HE SHOULD NOT BE BROADCASTED BY ANY COMPANY. IT IS A SAD COMMENTARY ON AMERICA WHEN HATE-MONGERS CAN MAKE A LIVING LIKE THIS. I WEEP FOR ALL OF US...
MR. L. I HAVE NOT IN ANY POSTING EXCUSED IMUS. AS FAR AS IMUS HAVING A BRAIN FART? WELL I CANNOT BEGIN TO EXPLAIN THE "WHY" AND I CANNOT THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATHWATER. THAT IS UP TO MSNBC AND CBS. I DON'T BELIEVE THEY WILL FIRE HIM BECAUSE HE GENERATES ALOT OF MONEY FOR THE COMPANY. DO I FIND HIM TO BE A HATEMONGER? NO. THE REAL HATEMONGERS ARE WORKING BEHIND THE SCENES AND YOU NOR I WILL EVER KNOW WHO THEY ARE. WAS I MAKING A FUNNY ABOUT THE MANY POSTERS WHO TREAT THIS ISSUE LIKE IT WAS MURDER? YES. IMUS MADE A STUPID REMARK THAT HAS BEEN BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION. DO YOU THINK FOR A SECOND THAT THESE INTELLIGENT YOUNG WOMEN HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY HIS INANE COMMENT? NO AND I'M GLAD THEY HAVE RISEN ABOVE THIS KIND OF BS UNLIKE THE SHARPTONS AND JACKSONS OF THIS COUNTRY. SOMEBODY RAISED SOME SMART GIRLS AND IT WASN'T THE LIKES OF THE PP. THE PARENTS OF THESE GIRLS INSPIRED AND PROMOTED CONFIDENCE MEASURED BY ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS A PATH TO SUCCESS. HEY THEY MADE THE GRADE GETTING INTO RUTGERS AND THAT IS AN ACCOMPLISHMENT ITSELF. ANYBODY WITH A BRAIN KNOWS THIS AND THAT IMUS' COMMENT WAS JUST PLAIN STUPID.
LINDA!!!! THE GIRLS ARE AWESOME AND ACCOMMPLISHED A LOT. IMUS' COMMENT WAS STUPID AND IS APPROPIATELY BEING CALLED ON IT. WHO IS TO SAY HOW THE GIRLS WERE AFFECTED BY HIS REMARKS? YOU DON'T KNOW, I DON'T KNOW, BUT, BECAUSE THE COMMENTS WERE RACIST AND MISOGYNIST, I DON'T BELIEVE THE GIRLS WOULD BE AFFECTED POSITIVELY. THE ONLY WAY TO FEEL ABOUT THE REMARKS, IF ONE IS AFFECTED, IS HURT. IMUS SPEWS HATE, HE DENIGRATES A LOT OF PEOPLE, AND, FRANKLY, DOES NOT HELP HUMANS. END OF STORY, GOOD DAY, LADY.
Well I am willing to admit you must be an expert on not having a brain by virtue of being, you know, YOU. I do however find it ironic that YOU are denigrating OUR intelligence. It seem to me that you are just lucky stupidity isnt physically painful or you would be in constant agony.
SOLON: WELL, YOU KNOW. I, YOU KNOW, DO, YOU KNOW, HAVE, YOU KNOW, A, YOU KNOW, BRAIN, YOU KNOW. AND, YOU KNOW, BEING, YOU KNOW, INTELLIGENT, YOU KNOW, IS, YOU KNOW, NOT, YOU KNOW, FOREIGN, YOU KNOW, TO, YOU KNOW, ME. YOU KNOW, TALK ABOUT A BRAIN FART. YOU NEED TO SEE A DOCTOR AND RIGHT QUICK, YOU KNOW. I HAVE NOT DENEGRATED ONE PERSON ON THIS THREAD, HOWEVER THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE MEMBERS WHO THINK IT INTELLIGENT TO CALL ANOTHER PERSON BY A DEROGATORY NAME. I, YOU KNOW, GUESS, YOU KNOW, THEY, YOU KNOW, COUDN'T, YOU KNOW, THINK, YOU KNOW, OF, YOU KNOW, ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, ELSE, YOU KNOW, TO , YOU KNOW, SAY, YOU KNOW OR MAYBE YOU REALLY DON'T KNOW? I HOPE YOU ARE NOT IN CONSTANT, YOU KNOW, AGONY.
Yes you did this from your post
YOU ARE NOT DEALING WITH RATIONAL THINKING PEOPLE HERE WITH YOUR QUESTIONS. IT IS KINDA FUN TO LISTEN TO THEM PRATTLE ON ABOUT HOW HISTORY HAS OUTLINED THEIR PERSONAL FUTURE AS THOUGH THEY DON'T HAVE A BRAIN.
See you have already shown you are an outright moron, lets not add liar to the list. I would address the rest of your post but reading your inanities leaves my brain cells yearning for the sweet release of a coma.
solon: maybe a coma would be a "thinking time"' education for you. my posts SCREAM for you and those like you to stop hinging your entire self esteem and emotional state on what somebody else says or does and stop teaching your children to be emotional slaves. the parents of the young basketball teammates, the victims, learned not to inhibit them with the same strain of slavery that you have.
Your posts SCREAM only one thing. That you are an incoherent babbler without two brain cells to rub together. The irony of YOU trying to teach me about punctuation says it all. I have a suggestion STOP SCREAMING AND START THINKING. Then post.
I'm really disappointed that Media Matters has decided to jump on the Jesse Jackson/Al Sharpton bandwagon and joining the chorus of racial ambulance chasers and racial rabble-rousers by calling for Imus' head.
What Imus said and did on his show was stupid and childish. However, he has already apologized and taken responsibility and owned up to his mistakes. He has not done anything that warrants getting terminated. The two-week suspension is an appropriate punishment, if not a little heavy-handed.
I also think it's very un-Christianlike for the two hypocrite reverends, Jackson and Sharpton, for not accepting his apology and not forgiving him. I also want to know who appointed these two racial hucksters to represent the entire African-American community.
Fianlly, where was Jackson and Sharpton when black actor Isaiah Washington of ABC-TV's Grey's Anatomy referred to white co-star T.R. Knight with an anti-gay slur? Or do people like Isaiah Washington have a free pass to yell all the slurs they want?
What Don Imus said and did on his show was wrong. I also believe that Media Matters, as well as the liberal blog Daily Kos and the entire MSM ganging up on him is a million times worse.
andycyber@aim.com
Fianlly, where was Jackson and Sharpton when black actor Isaiah Washington of ABC-TV's Grey's Anatomy referred to white co-star T.R. Knight with an anti-gay slur? Or do people like Isaiah Washington have a free pass to yell all the slurs they want?
They were no where to be found and I did not hear Jesse the hatemonger Jackson call for a boycott of ABC. It is so disgusting what they are doing to Imus. Imus is no saint but Jackson and Sharpton are 100 times worse.
Just for the record. I don't think he should be fired, but I do think that the suspension was appropriate. Our words and actions have consequences and people need to be held accountable for those actions. I'm all for seeing other folks being held responsible regardless of their race or political ideology.
Given his history I would be interested in what people think would be an appropriate punishment if we are facing this same issue with Imus a year from now?
The only people I know of that think that Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton speak for the entire black community are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Part of this issue is due to the MSM, why do they always call these 2 to ask them to speak for the black community in the first place as if any one person can speak for an entire diverse community? Why do people assume that everyone in the black community thinks with one mind on issues of race or any issue for that matter? I wish additional people in the black community would step forward to lead the black community or at least parts of it.
I would like to hear from Bill Cosby what he has to say about Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton appointing themselves spokespersons for the African-American community and he should say whether or not they speak for him as well.
andycyber@aim.com
Where is Jesse when .........happens? Where is Al when.....happens? Did you e-mail or call them to chastize Isiah Washington? Isiah took his lumps from the media and rightfully so. Al and Jesse give voice to the voiceless and have supported unpopular causes and continue to do so. In this country it's obvious who has a voice and who doesn't. Imus made an idiotic statement not either Rev so let's stick to the topic.
Where was the Rev. Al Sharpton when a 101-year-old woman's mugging was caught on videotape? He was nowhere to be found. If they ever catch that thug, I suppose he'll be providing moral support to him.
andycyber@aim.com
Do you think Rev Al is a suspect? The dude that mugged that woman is one of the most wanted people in NYC and will be caught and handled by the NYPD. Do Jesse and Al own capes and superpowers? Are there enough hours in a day for them to respond to every offense YOU think they should respond to? Hell, was Limbaugh when she was mugged? Where were Bush and Cheney? We can play the where is Jesse game all day long if you want? Why don't you call him and ask him where he was. They both have other issues they need to address.
Imus called KIDS hos. What if that was your daughter playing for Rutgers what would you say? T.R. Knight is a popular actor on a popular show who can speak quite eloquently for himself as well as the numerous gay and lesbian groups that helped defend him. This is typical of the new media popularized by Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin, Savage et all who use race bating tactics and when they get called on it they play the victim role and make it seem white males are somehow under attack. You'd think this would get obvious and old sooner or later.
I agree that what Imus said was pretty mean and insensitive, and insulting, but was it racist?
Having heard many black and white people drop into that venacular and mysoginist speech, (the list of rappers is too long to mention,) it seems to me that Imus was just using the same thing that can be heard on many play lists.
So why is it a racist when an old disk jockey says it, but not racist when something similar is said by a young rapper or commedian?
As an aside, I find it laughable that the media dredges up Sharpton and Jackson to pontificate once again. Can't they find anyone new?
I used to catch Imus on MSNBC for a few minutes in the mornings as an alternative to the "Today" show. I liked the way the political reporters who guested, let their hair down and spoke a little more freely than their scripted newscasts. However I quickly got tired of Imus's schtick of repeated put downs and lost interest in the show.
But I have no problem with his right to say what he said. I think like Coulter, people can express their distaste by not tuning in the show and or voicing their opinions like here.
This is America and Imus is protected by his first amendment rights. I do believe he realizes how stupid his comments were and is doing what he can to rectify the situation. He's a human being and made a stupid mistake. I for one, can forgive and forget.
Man you wingnuts just love to show how little you know about what you are talking about. There is absolutly NO FREE SPEECH ISSUE HERE. Imus has no RIGHT to a national audience nor a job with anybody. When someone calls for him to be arrested for his bigotry get back to us.
Does anybody understand the following quote from Imus in his exchange with Sharpton?
"I will bet you I have slept in a house with more black children who were not related to me than you have!"Yes... Imus is the winner because sleeping in a house full of black kids makes you better... or, Imus is just a bettin' fool whho is lookin' to lose some dough...
its sad that a stupid joke can pretty much ruin this guys career. this person is clearly not a racist, he is maybe a jerk and maybe insensitive, but he is no racist. i hope everyone is really happy, i mean you showed all those racists who are not on the radio who is boss. imus made a backhanded remark about how the women on that rutgers team looked like rough, tough characters, who he regarded as nappy-haired hos. he was making fun of them, not black people. i mean if they kinda looked like thugs to him, and he thought it would be funny to point that out, well i can see where he was coming from, just maybe a better choice of words. he was comaring them to the tennessee team, who he thought looked better i guess. its a fair comparision in some regard, mean spirited, but there is a difference between being mean and trying to be funny and being a hateful racist. just because you dont find it funny doesnt mean its the worst thing to be ever said, where does it end? we talk about having some kind of moral standard of decency? who in pluperfect he ll decides that? you? sharpton? the black community? someone said earlier that some people may actually take what he says serious, well to bad. i dont need anyone protecting me from what i hear, its an insult to my intelligence and to others that you believe you need to protect myself or anyone else from what is on the airwaves. so please, dont use that argument that we need to protect people who might believe what he says, if they do believe him then they got deeper problems than listening to imus and we need to focus efforts towards education rather than demonizing a radio personality. listen, protest and be mad all you want, but keep things in perspective here, its your right to voice your opinion, but lets be careful when calling for someone to lose their job, im just questioning the energy that is going into this by so many people when there are many other ways to get this message of equality out there in educational situations. better that than make a scene out in public that will just annoy most people who are around rather than get any sort of message out, the average american doesnt really care because they are not racist and they just treat people the way they would like to be treated. blah blah blah ok im done
and this next thing is just hypothetical and i want someones opinion on this: has anyone ever thought that maybe, sometimes we need people out there to be somewhat politically incorrect so that we dont have to be the one who makes the comments? isnt that why we have comedians and satirists? people who say the things we are thinking and wanting to shout about or do but we cant because of our own situations? isnt that why we have tv shows, to escape from what we do and be brought to a place and world that we cant do? people play video games that are incredibly violent, but they dont become violent themselves, its almost a release from the day to day activities, humans like to be tempted with the dark side every once and awhile, it seems like people listen to these shock jocks for that very reason. idk im just throwing stuff out there, any opinions would be welcomed
I can't believe that you chide me for speaking in generalities. I wish that "pointing out a negative aspect of the history of the United States" is all that you were doing. At every turn you consistently take historical deficiencies from our countries past so you can rationalize your disdain for our nation. Content analysis is certaintly not your strong point as you grossly misinterpreted my statement, obviously in a vain attempt to make it appear as though I am one of these "America, love it or leave it" types. My point is that if you feel that past policies of this country have inalterably affected it's ability to to provide for the greater good. Then you shouldn't take advantage of the oppportunities offerred. That way you will no longer have to live hypocritically. Obviously, you can't possibly take advantage of a opportunities offerred in a country that was built on the imperialistic white supremacist agenda of Europeans.
someone posted earlier about peoples past actions, and i think its fair to take into account. because if someone who is critizing imus such as sharpton, has a tainted history and people are willing to say "o well that doesnt matter that happened so and so long ago" and this is something BAD he did, then why cant we take into account something GOOD someone has done when they say something bad. it seems people are quick to forget someones past if its bad and they do something good now, but if they do something bad now but they did lots of good, that good seems to just not matter to some. interesting
"And I wish Al Sharpton would keep his nose out of this. I'll start listening to him when he apogizes for his racist lies he told during the Tawana Brawley saga."
Al Sharpton imo has atoned for that incident. Don Imus on the other hand has a longer history of race-baiting and until now hasn't had to pay the piper.
I'm glad that there's outrage about this. It shows that we as a people (Americans) are more socially conscious that we're given credit for. Not that we don't have a long way to go, and Imus should be canned imo, but I'm relieved that something is being done about this fellow.
"Fianlly, where was Jackson and Sharpton when black actor Isaiah Washington of ABC-TV's Grey's Anatomy referred to white co-star T.R. Knight with an anti-gay slur? Or do people like Isaiah Washington have a free pass to yell all the slurs they want?"
That happened in private between individuals and imo was merely tabloid fodder. Imus slandered black women over the airwaves in front of a nationwide audience. It may not have been hateful per se, but it was very rude and disrespectful. People who don't think it was a big deal should learn to walk in the shoes of others.
For all the white folks who think Imus is harmless, imagine if most of the radio hosts were black and constantly railed on and on about us being "crackers", "oppressors", "devils", "cave apes", "honkys", etc. in the same way people like Imus, Limbaugh, and Savage do about racial and sexual minorities...and they got away with it! You would be livid wouldn't you?
" its sad that a stupid joke can pretty much ruin this guys career."
Yeah, it's a stupid joke that people like him dominate radio. Let's all feel bad for the affluent white guy who probably could retire comfortably if he wanted to.
" this person is clearly not a racist, he is maybe a jerk and maybe insensitive, but he is no racist."
I choose "All Of The Above" on that one.
"Where was the Rev. Al Sharpton when a 101-year-old woman's mugging was caught on videotape? He was nowhere to be found. If they ever catch that thug, I suppose he'll be providing moral support to him."
Where was Imus when Amadou Diallo got shot 41 times despite being unarmed?
Btw, I think it would be wrong if anyone of any race said what Imus said about these young women. It's funny how so many people forget that the word "ho" is short for "whore". How many women like or don't mind being called "whores"?
This is not about free speech, it is about free market.
The top 5 Lords of Loud, with the exception of Ed Schultz, are major Racist, Homophope, Right Wing Loud Mouths.
When all fair minded Americans stop listening or watching, the ratings go down, then the free market will ajust.
Then the Tim Russert's, Chris Matthews, Don Imus, Rush Slimebaugh, Slant Head, and Drudge will go away
Come on you guys. Of all the radio personalities you're picking on Imus? He's a radio "comedian" who admittedly made a very stupid joke. Calling him a racist, equating him to Rush Limbaugh, Michael Weiner "Savage" or Ann Coulter, and trying to get him fired is a waste of time and resources for everyone. I'd like to see the same type of outrage every time a KSFO radio pundit makes an offensive remark. It took an independent blogger (that Spocko guy) to get their attention and ABC radio sued the poor guy... thanks to the Electronic Frontier Foundation he managed to defend himself. Leave Imus alone. The world has not ran out of Limbaughs, Coulters or Hannitys just yet.
Imus is a good guy being raked over the goals because realized all the great publicity they can get in the wake of the Kramer incident. His comments are such a non-story its unbelievable. I dont alwyas agree with Imus but I admire both his ability to call as he sees it no matter what guest he has on his show and also his dedcation to raising money and awareness fo various things.
WELL YOU "FOLKS" HAVE ACCOMPLISHED SOME MEASURE OF WHAT YOU WOULD REFER TO AS SUCCESS. BUT THIS TOO WILL BE ADDED TO THE PP TALLY OF NON EFFECTIVE AND ANGRY FITS THAT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICA CONCEDES. IMUS HAS LOST HIS FACE TIME ON MSNBC AND PERHAPS HE MAY LOOSE HIS VOICE TIME ON CBS. DO ANY OF YOU THINK HE WILL DISAPPEAR INTO OBLIVION? NO. IT WON'T BE TOO LONG AND THE LINE WILL BE OUT THE DOOR FOR OTHER BROADCASTERS TO HIRE HIS SCHTICK. THAT IS, UNLESS HE IS KILLED BY AN UNKNOWN DRIVE BY SHOOTER WHEN WALKING DOWN THE STREET. WHO KNOWS? HE DID NOT DESERVE TO BE FIRED AND I DON'T BELIEVE THE RIGHT REVEREND SHARPTON NOR THE BLATHERING IDIOT JESSIE JACKSON, THE EMOTION SALESMEN, COULD HOLD AN INTELLINGENT CONVERSATION WITH HIM NOT TO MENTION GENERATE THE KIND OF REVENUES IMUS HAS ACCOMPLISHED FOR THE "COMPANY". MSNBC WILL EVENTUALLY FIND A WAY TO REHIRE HIM. MAYBE THROUGH ANOTHER GENERAL ELECTRIC SUBSIDIARY. WATCH AND LEARN. NBC WILL MAKE UP FOR IT IN THE MOST OBSCENE MANNER. IT'S CALLED MONEY AND EVERYONE LIKES THAT. DON'T WE? BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR. YOU MAY GET IT.