Imus' non-defense: The phrase "nappy-headed hos" "originated in the black community"
While acknowledging that it was not "OK" for him to refer to the Rutgers University women's basketball team as "nappy-headed hos," Don Imus asserted on the April 10 edition of his show, MSNBC's Imus in the Morning, and on NBC's Today show that the phrase "originated in the black community." Specifically, he stated: "I may be a white man, but I know that ... young black women all through that society are demeaned and disparaged and disrespected ... by their own black men and that they are called that name." Those comments -- and his assertion, during the same show, that "there's a lot of stuff that we can do, but at some point, I stop playing" -- stand in contrast with the contrition he purported to express the day before. On the April 9 edition of the show, Imus acknowledged that his comments were especially objectionable because he mocked a specific group of young women who he said didn't "deserve it." Imus has a long history of ad hominem slurs that target race, ethnicity, and sex.
On the April 9 edition of his program, Imus said that he "learned" from this incident that "you can't make fun of everybody because some people don't deserve it." Nonetheless, Imus brought up the purported origin of the term "hos" on the April 10 edition of Imus and during an April 10 discussion -- simulcast on MSNBC -- with Today co-host Matt Lauer and Rev. Al Sharpton.
On Today, Sharpton objected to Imus' point regarding the origin of the phrase, saying, "We have said that we are against the degrading that is done even by blacks. ... Wherever he says this originated from does not give him the right to use it." After the discussion concluded, Imus claimed on his program that Sharpton had misrepresented his remarks. Imus asserted that he did not say that he "should be cut slack because these young women are disparaged and demeaned and disrespected by young black men and others in their own community," but he also did not explain the significance of his repeated assertion that "nappy-headed hos" "originated in the black community."
On April 10, the Associated Press noted Imus' remarks on Today and reported that he had "tried to shift some of the focus from himself."
As Media Matters for America noted, on April 9, NBC News and CBS Radio both announced they will suspend Imus for two weeks, beginning April 16.
From the April 9 edition of MSNBC's Imus in the Morning:
IMUS: Does that mean that it's OK for me to say what I said about these Rutgers women? I hope you don't think that because I don't think that. So, I'm going to go talk to these women, if they'll let me, and tell them what I've just told you. And what have I learned from this? Because Reverend DeForest Soaries [senior pastor of the First Baptist Church of Lincoln Gardens] said, "I want you to tell me what you've learned."
Here's what I've learned: That you can't make fun of everybody because some people don't deserve it and because the climate on this program has been what it's been for 30 years doesn't mean that it has to be that way for the next five years or whatever. Because that has to change so -- and I understand that.
From the April 10 edition of Imus in the Morning:
IMUS: But I have some good ideas, and they may work and they may not. I think they will work, so -- except -- by the way, though, I was just talking about [WFAN operations director Mark] Chernoff, who I've talked about for years, so --
CHARLES McCORD: Oh, I -- well aware.
IMUS: Because this phrase that I used didn't originate -- it originated in the black community. That didn't give me a right to use it, but that's where it originated.
McCORD: Absolutely:
IMUS: Well, who calls who that and why? Now, we need to know that. I need to know that. The white people, all of them kind of -- there are many African-Americans by the way who listen to the program, many.
From the April 10 edition of NBC's Today:
SHARPTON: I will certainly call on them this morning -- presidential candidates as well as politicians. They should not go on his show, but I hope that we will not have a show for them to go back on.
LAUER: Let me bring Don Imus back in on this. Don, first of all, you said you're going to meet -- you would like to meet with the Rutgers University players. What exactly would you say to them?
IMUS: Well, we made extraordinary efforts both over the air and officially through members of the religious community in New Jersey and the academic community at Rutgers and through -- privately -- through people who know people who are trying to see if these young women will allow me to come out and apologize to them. And I am going to apologize to them and ask them for their forgiveness.
I don't expect that, and I don't think they have any obligation to either forgive me or to accept my apology, but I have a responsibility to -- and I think it's important. And everybody can say that context is not important, but in every aspect of our lives, it is. And I want these young women to know that I didn't say this out of anger, and that I didn't say this out of meanness, and I didn't -- I didn't turn my microphone on and say, "This is what I think of the young women of Rutgers," and believe me, I know that that phrase didn't originate in the white community.
That phrase originated in the black community, and I -- I'm not stupid. I may be a white man, but I know that these young women and young black women all through that society are demeaned and disparaged and disrespected by the -- by their own black men and that they are called that name, and I know that the -- and that doesn't give me, obviously, any right to say it, but it doesn't give them any right to say it.
LAUER: Don -- we made a --
SHARPTON: Well, I --
LAUER: -- well, let me just say, we kind of agreed here that we wouldn't make this a debate back and forth, Don, but would you mind if I allowed Reverend Sharpton to comment on that because he's sitting --
IMUS: I talked to Reverend Sharpton yesterday for two hours, Matt, and I told [NBC News senior Vice President] Phil Griffin [who oversees Today] and everybody else, that I didn't intend to --
[...]
IMUS: I told Phil, I told everybody else that I had no intention of debating him on his program, if he didn't have the same kind of courage that I had. Now, I walked into that studio by myself.
[...]
SHARPTON: Two things: One is that is not about courage to appear on his show. I could not tell people to don't watch him, don't listen to him, don't appear, and then go myself. I'm not in the business of creating an audience for him. And I said if he wanted to meet in public, he could come to my show. He opted to do that.
But the second point: We have said that we are against the degrading that is done even by blacks. I have led protests on shows on that and will continue to do that, but that does not excuse him. Wherever he says this originated from does not give him the right to use it. We should fight all that use it.
From the April 10 edition of Imus in the Morning:
LAUER: I know we're simulcast on MSNBC, so thanks for your airtime as well.
IMUS: You're welcome.
LAUER: All right, and --
[end video clip]
IMUS: Twenty minutes after the hour here on the Imus in the Morning program on the radio around the country and on MSNBC, so -- well, I didn't say that. I mean, you know -- see, that's the problem. That's not what I said -- that I should be cut slack because these young women are disparaged and demeaned and disrespected by young black men and others in their own community. That's not what I said.
So -- and what did Matt do? Let him get by with it, which is what I told Phil Griffin, and these other people. I said, you know, "Don't, Matt" -- I said, "Well, the reason I'm not going to go on there and debate Al Sharpton and Matt Lauer is because Matt is by -- for whatever reason, is going to be on Reverend Sharpton's side, just whether he is or not."
Looks like Imus will not be around much longer
He was a far-left DemocraT and Democrtas loved his show so now he'll be on XM w/ Howard Stern making 200 million a year
Obviously what Imus said was hideous. It was a distasteful, insensitive insult directed at an undeserving group of athletes who have every right to be very proud of their achievement. He rightfully apologized and is even meeting with them. Whether he gets fired is up to his employer.
But the rest of the media is just exploiting this ad nauseum. Imus should eat his humble pie, take responsibility for his words, show his remorse, think again before he repeats something so offensive as this in the future, and make any retributions possible. After that he should say enough and move on, as should we all.
His ego will not allow it especially when his cohorts are running to his aid.
That is a fair enough assessment, I just hate all of the claims that "it's no big deal".
I don't think the man is a racist, I just don't have a very high opinion of him. If the network fires him, so be it. If he comes back and actually changes his attitude for certain things great. This has been blown a little out of proportion, but maybe it's a good thing this got some attention. I think it's a good sign that people are sick of this kind of thing.
For the record even if "nappy headed ho" started in the black community, it doesn't make it right. If anyone tunes into any of the conversations going on within the black community they would hear many people doing a lot of reflection of what happens within the community. Somewhere along the line people started to get this this idea that all balck people think in lockstep. That we all go around calling women hoes and b*tches and turn a blind eye to whats going on in the rap community which just is not the case.
I love this whole media watchdog stuff but I think Imus is not quite the scum you're trying to make him out ot be. He's old school. Back in his day blacks and whites talked more candidly about racism..oddly enough it might be because we're so quik to push the "That's racist" button it may be hndering our ability to keep an open honest dialouge in american broadcasting. he said he was sorry, he got a two week suspension. Enough. He's not Rush Limbaugh. Stop trying to make him out to be like he is by projecting only his insensitive statements. I don't think Imus speaking plainly about how tough the girls looked is comparible to Rush singing "I am woman" or saying "halfrican". It's just not.
Maybe it's me, but I don't remember whites and blacks talking openingly about racism "back in the day". Perhaps you are referring to the water hose...or maybe the dogs attacking people...or maybe people being hanged. Yea that must be the open dialogue "back in the day".
Simple... if you wouldn't say "nappy headed hos" to a co-worker during a meeting, at the lunch table or at the water cooler then maybe we shouldn't say it on national television about young women who did NOTHING but play basketball.
I don't think Imus speaking plainly about how tough the girls looked...
Wow. No wonder you're here supporting Imus.
Hopefully this episode will open everyone's eyes to the real hate speech that goes on every single day on right wing radio. What Imus said was small potatoes compared to what the Limbaugh's and Hannity's etc. spew.
Are you going to provide examples for that? Or are you going to keep making baseless and false assertions? Also, Imus isn't anywhere close to being a conservative. He's a wacky independent who leans slightly to the left. He's closer to your side than he is to mine.
his comments were really racist. but has anybody talked about the sexism...his entire coverage of a sporting event consisted of talking about what the athletes looked like.
Ok, Fox Noise, now's you're chance. Do something about Bill O'Reilly about his Shawn Hornbeck comments, or his comments about the children killed in the Bronx fire. MSNBC has just become better people for making this move about this uncalled for comment (with MSNBC commentators all saying their displeasure), but Billo has done more in his 10 years on FOX Noise than Imus could EVER do with a THOUSAND nappy comments, and Billo gets a free pass.
Why should Bill O'Reilly get in trouble for telling the truth in those two cases? It's a documented fact that the Hornbeck kid had a chance to escape but didn't. What O'Reilly said was the truth, even if he was hammered by the PC crowd that rejects the truth.
PC has nothing to do with it. That label is so misused as a way to explain off anything anymore. The kid was 11 years old when he was kidnapped. He had no clue what to do, he was scared to death of the guy who kidnapped him. Where would he run to, how would you propose he escape?
C'mon, man, this has nothing to do with how the "PC" crowd percieves ANYTHING! And the way so many people try to put that tag on any argument about this type of issue that they don't agree with is absurd and cowardly.
"Where would he run to, how would you propose he escape"
He actually talked to the police while he was held "captive." He told them that someone stole his bike, but somehow he forgot to mention that he had been kidnapped. Go figure. He even dated a girl during his "captivity." He even went to a school sponsored dance with her. And you're saying that he didn't have any chance to "escape?" Are you kidding me?
Your blame the victim rhetoric is not only dispicable but gut wrenching. Take your soul in for a retrofit assuming you still have one and it didnt jump ship long ago.
Once again you simply resort to personal attacks when the facts aren't on your side. There are documented facts which show that he had plenty of chances to escape and had even talked to the police, but forgot to tell them that he had been kidnapped. Quit rejecting reality and living in a PC world.
Quit acting like the term "PC" means anything other than "stuff Rino doesn't agree with."
The term "PC" is a label Liberals are running from like a vampire from the Sun
Quit pretending that a kid most likely sexually molested and subjected to who knows WHAT sort of mental abuse and threats is responsible to escape his captor as if he were a POW in a war. Stop YOUR personal attacks on the victim of a horrible crime and I wont think you are worthy of the same treatment. I still think you are dispicable for your unconcionable and souless attacks on this child who has gone through a hell I wouldnt wish even on YOU.
"Stop YOUR personal attacks on the victim of a horrible crime"
You're delusional and illiterate. I said nothing of the sort. That kid might have been the nicest kid in the world. I don't know. I simply pointed out THE INDISPUTABLE FACT that the kid had many opportunities to escape. I also don't condone what his captor did. The man who kidnapped him was a dispicable human being who should probably go to jail for life. I feel bad for the kid that he was seperated from his family for so long and had to live with that scumbag. I simply questioned why the kid didn't escape when he had the chance. I'm simply pointing out the obvious, which is that the kid had multiple opportunities to escape but didn't.
Yes they are horrible personal attacks. O'falalfel said the kid probably liked being held by his captor more then being with his parents and other dispicable things which YOU just said were true. That constitutes a horrible personal attack on the kid. Its so easy for YOU to sit on your pious pedestal and judge the kid for not doing something that SEEMS easy to YOU. There are emotional consequences to sexual abuse. Kids tend to think its their fault. The wonder if their parents will want them back. Their captors play on such emotional damage, tell them their parents dont want them and thats why they havent come to get them. The kid was 11 and you are holding him to the standards we expect from Soldiers that become prisoners of war. We have no idea the mental and emotional manipulation done to this KID, he was a KID. YOU without the slightest idea about the horror this kid went through blithely condemn him for not overcoming horrors I wouldnt wish even on you to judge him. You are saying a whole lot more than he had a chance to escape when you say Bill was right for the horrific things he said. You are agreeing with soulnumbing lack of compassion to slander this KID WHO WAS THE VICTIM of horrible abuse. How easy is it for you without even a hint of idea what this kid went through that he didnt rise up to YOUR expectations. I hope if it is ever YOUR kid in that situation that you are more understanding
and MSNBC has 300,00 viewers to Fox's 2,000,000 at any one time....how sad
Becoming over played
This is now starting to become over played. I am so sick of seeing Al Sharpton a anti-Semite , he makes people want to support Imus. The statement was bad , but is it the worst thing in the world? As for these Rutger Girls, I am starting to get sick of them also. We have more sympathy for them then we do for solders who come back from Iraq without limbs.
What!?
Again, what?
These women from Rutgers did nothing to bring this on themselves. All they did was play a basketball game (which barely got any mainstream coverage, because very few people cared about ) and then this guy makes this idiotic comment and they get hounded by the press all weekend. You should have nothing but sympathy for the Rutgers women because they have been thrust into this due to no action on their part.
As unfortunate as the situation is for our soldiers-- and everyone's hearts goes out to them.-- they volunteered to do a job where that sort of thing is a known risk beforehand. (I am NOT saying the soldier's brought their agony on themselves. I am saying that when they made the choice to become soldiers, the possibility of war was at the forefront of that decision, and in war their are casualties). That is why the soldiers are heroes. To make a comparison between them and a woman's basketball team is just sick.
No America is sick that we will spend time dealing with a Stupid joke. Meanwhile our troops are trated like crap.
Obviously, it is not just a "stupid joke" to the women at Rutgers who have said that they are hurt by the comments.
If you listen to the Imus show you get the joke. America today is a very bad place when even our sense of humor seems threatened.
Whenever I'm up early enough, I listen to Imus. (I live on the West Coast, but grew up in Brooklyn where I'd catch his show every morning). I know he is no racist, nor is he a conservative or many of the things people are saying about him here and elsewhere. (and for Al Sharpton to actually sit in judgment of Imus... well, that's better left to another forum). BUT his joke hurt people who were underserving of the hurt. It happens all the time. We've all said things in the spirit of jest, that hurt people. And when it happens, we apologize and try to make amends. Imus is just trying to do the same. But we shouldn't try to shove it under the rug as "well, you have to have been there.", nor should people exploit this to bolster their radio programs, and be seen everywhere. These women did not deserve to be called "nappy headed ho's", whether said in jest or not and they're the issue. They are not public figures, and now they have to deal with all this crap because of Imus's admitted stupidity, and insensitivity.
They are hurt by this comment??? But they will still turn around and listen to the most famous rap artist of today calling them h*es b*tches and sl*ts that aren't good for anything but giving bl*wjobs...
Maybe they will and maybe they won't, Jon. Do you know these girls? Do you know what kind of music they listen to? Or do you think all of "them" are the same, so you can call them whatever you want?
How do you know that? Do you think all young black people are the same? You are making a very big assumption and it makes you sound like an ass.
I watched the game and for the first few minutes thought it was the men's team playing...those tatoos , they were some ruff babes
What was the joke?
I think America is sick of appolgists for racism and churlish behavior.
I don't, Solon. Sadly. I have run into way too many people here in the loonylibrul People's Republic of California that sound like the most obnoxious capslock troll on this site.
Wow, thats sad.
Equally sad news from the North East.
While most people are disgusted with racism and it's aftermath, far too many still instill racism in their children.
First, I agree that the Bush administration has treated our troops horribly, and Bush should be held accountable for that.
Second, this idea that we Americans can't hold two separate concepts in our minds at the same time and process them appropriately is insulting. Spare us the crocodile tears about our troops in Iraq when it has nothing to do with this.
We have more sympathy for them then we do for solders who come back from Iraq without limbs.
On. What. Freaking. Planet?
Everybody except for the Bush Administration has sympathy for the poor troops. We've been talking about Imus for what, a day?
I do see your point, another diversion while more Americans die.
Where's the diversion?
There's probably going to be an Iraq update on the news tonight, and if there isn't one. Here's the newsflash: This situation stinks, just like it did yesterday, and it will tomorrow. Do we need to be told this everday.
Just because today the big story is Imus, and tomorrow it's going to Anna Nicole, does not mean anyone is diverted from caring about our troops and the mess in Iraq that they've been placed in.
Peg,
I do appreciate your sentiment. I hope you have been writing letters to Congress regarding your concerns. I especially hope that you have written to the Republican leaders who had oversight of the military hospitals and those who refused to fund more health care for these protectors of our great country.
But, please, no need to be "sick" of the Rutgers women. They did not choose to be involved in this. Imus made a comment that was reprehensible that was not caused by their actions in any way. I am sure if they had their choice this whole situation never would have happened or would quietly go away.
The women on that team have displayed more maturity, class, and tolerance than anyone that has provided this lynch mob on Imus could ever hope to have right now.
Somone attached (possibly at the wrist and ankles, but thats a personal choice) to this site possited that the longrange aim of the folks who took over our media over the last 30 years is to have a national media that is implicitly or explicitly raceist, sexist, homophobic, shows contempt for the downtroden, scapgoats minorities, and characatures envirenmentalists. So yes is matters, because thats what cheapens all of us.
The troops do deserve better than Bush
"I may be a white man, but I know that ... young black women all through that society are demeaned and disparaged and disrespected ... by their own black men and that they are called that name"
What's wrong with what Imus said here? Do any of you really disagree with what Imus said here? It's certainly true that black rappers call women b*tches and hos all the time. So what's wrong with Imus pointing this out? What's wrong with him pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of Sharpton and Jackson, who will hammer Imus all day long but will never say a negative word about gansta rap?
They have said negative things about that. The pint is that neither are wrong. Neither Gangsta Rappers nor Imus were out of line.
When it comes to people's "feelings" I think the "victim" has to move on when they find out no harm was intended. Penty of people will back up their derogatory speech with ideas of racial superiority. Imus is not one of those people. Whites and blacks are both being trodden upon by the wealthy. There is more class tension now, and I think we all need to band together. Less racial tension now, more class tension.
Easier said than done, especially when you are not the aggrieved party.
The Rutgers players are willing to hear him out before they decide to accept any apology, which is fair. But just remember, they are not the ones who pursued this story, they are not the one's exploiting it, and they are not keeping it alive. This came to them, and IMO they've shown nothing but class.
Right because since they were black women it was ok to call them nappy headed Ho's? You are sick, seek professional help immediatly
Are you forgetting the white women on the team or are they being oppressed now also? I mean come on now if we are going to refer to the nappy headed women on the team as the black ones who's the real racist?
Yeah, I forgot the nappy headed white women. I hope you are kidding.
One it's false as both Sharpton and Jackson are on the record condemning that type of music.
Two, it's a dodge. Sharpton and Jackson didn't create this maelstrom. Imus did. He is free to turn the table on Sharpton and Jackson when they make similar idiotic comments, and in time they will. But for now his comments, and the effect it had on the women's basketball team is the issue. Not Sharpton, not Jackson, not the black community.
Part of racism is taking the relative few baser sorts of a culture and applying it to the culture as a whole.
I dont know any prominent black person calling all white men racist, stupid, warmongering, blasphemous, lying criminals because Bush and a good portion of the GOP is.
Do I disagree they are nappy headed Ho's? Oh yeah. The fact rappers are treating women with disrespect on albums doesnt give Imus a pass for his racist slur on OUR airwaves.
1: It's a huge generalization about the entire black community based on the actions of minority in the black community.
2: It doesn't make it right for anyone to say it.
Do you want any further explanation?
By that same logic, do you think it's just a question of time before white folks such as Imus start feeling comfortable enough to use the term "we*tb*ck" casually? The hack "comic" Carlos Mencia uses it in every single episode of his Comedy Central show, giving the illusion that Mexican-Americans are somehow cool with it. Witness this weeks, "Are You Smarter Than a W*tba*ack?" schtick. I hope the answer would be no. Maybe many do already but just not on tv? I shudder to think of what it would feel like to have such disparaging language become commonplace. Imus needs to retire.
So now this racist bastard is saying black men (me being one of them) "disrespect and demean" our "own" black women!?!??!!?!He's heard a relative FEW black people speak derogatively of women and now he's willing to infer the whole CULTURE of black men speak to women like this??!??!?!Don, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt but you're a racist bastard. You overtly and overly generalize and obviously dont have black friends who aren't ignorant if you have any close black friends at all.
A non argument, two wrongs don't make a right (but three lefts will). We should be as outraged as statements coming from the entertainment field that are as degrading as these remarks were coming from a media personality. But, what the Hey?, its just a symptom of the current culture.
So because other people have made similar or worse statements, we shouldn't express outrage at Imus's comments.
I'm sure the defense bar wishes they could use this defense in court.
"Your honor my client admits to stealing from the orphanage, but you have cop killers walking the street. I mean which is the bigger crime?"
It can be used in other venues as well. From Barry Bonds: "Hey all I (allegedly) did was take steroids. It's not like I hit my wife." To the President, "Yeah I know the intelligence reports were bull spit, but hey I'm not sleeping with intern's in the oval office."
OMG!!!!!
"Nappy headed hos" Don Imus is a stupid loudmouth
"White interloper" Al Sharpton is a stupid loudmouth
"Hymietown" Jessie Jackson is a stupid loudmouth, with ketchup stains
Now, who decided these people should get their own radio programs?
And make millions of dollars a year. Agaian why do we assume these comments were to just the black women on the team? If I recall it was to the whole team.
At least to the NAPPY headed portion of the team.
Agaian why do we assume these comments were to just the black women on the team? If I recall it was to the whole team.
Oh, come on. "Nappy?"
The beautiful thing about this whole ordeal is that the more guys like Sharpton and Jackson push the "racist button", the more they lose their credibility. Nobody takes racism seriously anymore, whether it exists or not. Anybody that is not black can see the hypocracy when rappers are free to talk trash, Sharpton is allowed to call jews "the K word" and black comedians are allowed to say the N-Bomb. Hilarious. Keep pushing Sharpton, you are making people more prejudice all the time. Keep it up.
Just because appologists for racism no longer take it seriously doesnt mean NO ONE DOES. Obviously MSNBC does which is why they suspended him. I know I do so your basless assertion is patently absurd. What you obviously MEANT to say is that you WISH no one took it seriously anymore so you could get on with making racial slurs, or listening to those who do without any danger of consequences.
Nope. None of my white friends take it seriously anymore. Things like this just make us laugh in hysteria. Take rappers for instance, along with the whole "hip-hop" culture. Cite one example of another race or ethnicity that demeans their own people. How can anyone respect the black community as a whole if they don't even respect themselves? When will Sharpton and Jackson start attacking rappers that use every demeaning word in the dictionary to describe their way of life? Hilarious.
For some reason a segment of the Black community doesn't find it offensive when another Black person uses a term like "hoe" to describe a black female. But it is totally different when a white person uses the term because of the history in this country between Blacks and Whites. No Black person would tolerate a white person calling a black female a "nappy-headed hoe" under any circumstance. BTW, I've heard both Jackson and Sharpton criticize rappers who use these derogatory terms to sell albums but as long as these albums are selling, the rappers are not going to stop it.
Why are you assuming this comment was only for the black women? Was the comment not about the WHOLE team America and Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are the ones making this all about the black women....I think one other comment said by oppressing one you oppress all....Seems to me you guys are just assuming this is all about black on white instead of IMUS just making what is suppose to be a funny comment even if it wasn't at all.
Yeah thats right I am ASSUMING that when he said NAPPY HEADED ho's he was talking about black women. I dont know why.
Why are you going out your way to defend a racist comment? Are you a racist? And there was nothing funny about what he said.
Actually is was kind of funny and it wasn't racist. Imus was portraying how a rapper would talk.
I don't see anything funny about a white man calling black women "nappy-headed hoes". He wasn't portraying a rapper. The stupid sidekick called them "hardcore hoes" and then he said something like "more like nappy-headed hoes". He then went on to compare them to the Toronto Raptors. Why are you going out of your way to defend a racist comment? Are you a racist?
I thought one of the most offensive parts, not reported widely, was when McGuirk took off from the Raptors comment and compared them to the Grizzlies. As in big, hairy brown animals.
If there was a Memphis Monkeys basketball team, I feel certain he would have gone there. And we'd be talking about McGuirk taking two weeks off with pay.
Sir, you have to be the most ill-informed person i know but i will let you and other non- black person know ( the jews are a religous sect not a race of people) stop comparing their plight to that of african americans or more poignanntly black americans. Sir you have no idea what being black in america is , it is a struggle to interact with people who for 500 years found some reason to make your dailY exsistence a nightmare and now unfortunately we re-inact that nightmare on ourselves . you are right rappers say these things and they are equallly wrong. the problem is we the black race have allowed our intra- dialect to seep into mainstream culture. this has been done several ways and those ways are many. but i refuse to allow you or any other non black american or immigrant to spout your uninformed history crap it is time blacks stand up to all you people thats right i said it you people. we have lost or collective testial fortitude. thats why you thinks ok to come on here and saY what you say it is not our actions that has convinced you to diss us at will. it is the american treatment of us that has given you this idea blame it on us if it makes you feel better. but please know as american a veteran and college graduate. I stand with this women and i also like imus he made a mistake as many of us do. he was wrong. you are a joke sir and probably came to this country to benefit from the racist american dream. but you know those ladies of rutgers which is the university of my home state, made me so proud they showed the world that black is beautiful smart articulate and yes graceful and they all did the black race some justice proved to jerks like you that thinks it's ok to disrespect us . i know some nice gangbangers that would love to meet you and listen to your views.
The jews are most certaintly a race of people, how can you say such a thing? Furthermore racism is a blight in this country but the actions of certain groups within any race are the priamry cause of bigotry in today's society. Gangbangers are a good example.
It's a good point. 'Cause there was no bigotry before "gangbangers" came on the scene.
I forget, what did the Jews do that was the "primary cause" of anti-semitism? Something do do with babies' blood and motze bread?
I see your point V. but I think you missed mine. I could have been more direct I suppose. There has certaintly been bigotry in general for millenia. As someone who grew up in the south in the 50's and 60's I can tell you that we have made extraordinary progress with racism. I truly believe that it is not as prevalent in today's society. It is my opinion that actions of certain groups within a particular race put a blight on the rest of the particular racial community. For example, for whatever reason there is more attention paid to the failures of the black community i.e. gang wars, drugs, crime, one parent households as opposed to success stories within the black community i.e. during the Clinton years the black middle class grew almost exponentially and as such crime and other problems in the black community decreased. My point is that since more emphasis is placed on the bad it certainly attributes to w hite peoples perception of the black community. In my humble opinion, the success of gangsta rap only adds to what can only be described as isolation black youth experience from the mainstream.
I do think I understand your point Chris, but it did sound like a bit of "blaming the victim." Your clarification was helpful.
I do think such a thing as "soft bigotry of low expectations" exists, but I think it is a minor element played up by those who have an agenda to deny the existence of real racism. I certainly believe progress has been made in many areas, but I think some confuse "progress" with "the problem is solved, let's stop talking about it."
My assertion is that we whites in general have a lot of work to do recognising and eliminating the subtle racism that would never do violence to a black person, but will laugh at racist jokes, cross the street to avoid a black man, or give a job to a white over a better-qualified African-American. Matthew 7:3, again.
I feel like there may well be issues within the black community that hold them back, but that it is up to the black community to identify them and figure out how to eal with them. Thinking that we as whites have any part of the solution is IMHO another form of subtle racism.
I agree to a certain extent. My overall premise is that there is in fact issues in the black community which plays an instramental role in a white persons inability to eliminate the subtle racism you talk about. For example, why do you think some people are afraid of young black men? Because what we see as a nation is news story after news story in which black youth engage in violence against each other and the community. I know in reality that such people who engage in such acts are statistically miniscule when compared to the entire black community. But the fact remains that these are the ones who get the attention along with a section of hip hop music which glorifies such a violent lifestyle. It gives middle america a perception that prevents us from moving forward in the manner which you would like to see. By the way, I am 1/2 Lakota Native American (Upper Brule Burnt Thigh tribe) and 1/2 white. I swear I'm not lying, since you may find that hard to believe considering our disucssions yesterday. Born on the rosebud Sioux reservation and raised for the first five years of my life in Rapid City, South Dakota. I thought you might find that interesting since you referred to you and I as "we whites"
Well, we'll agree to disagree, then... I think racism is a problem in each person's heart. If one looks out in the world and see something that confirms your prejudice, it's up to that person to determine if they're going to judge a whole group of people they've never met on the basis of a few. Certainly, if someone looks, they can find something that validates their preconceptions - there are Italian gangsters, certainly, and some of us have greasy hair and maybe don't smell so great, especially if we've been eating garlic. The question, though, is whether one sees people as individuals or members of a group.
I wasn't actually using the "you and I" form of we in my mind, more the "collective" we. Certainly, though, I might have chosen my words differently yesterday if I had some idea of your heritage, so that is my prejudice showing...
Fiar enough.I was trying to bait you in anyway with the "what have you done for native americans" question. I still think that is valid as it pertains to my argument but what the hey, it probably won' be the only time we disagree.
I knew it was bait, that's why I spit it back... ;-)
Good point. Well thought out. This is a perception problem, not a black problem. We need to understand that the style is not the substance and the sizzle is not the steak. It is something we must all guard against. Stereotypes aboung about all cultures and its a mistake to accept their frames. It is however an easy mistake to make.
Take rappers for instance, along with the whole "hip-hop" culture. Cite one example of another race or ethnicity that demeans their own people. How can anyone respect the black community as a whole if they don't even respect themselves? - zamfir273114
Zamfir, I posted this in another topic but I think I need to repost it here since you seem to be another adolescent, apathetic troll who is far more racist than Don Imus (someone who I personally don't think is racist he just said a racist statement).
American popular culture has always been sexist, way before rap became mainstream and popular among upper class white males (those are the ones who buy rap CDs more than any other demographic in America based on recent statistics). If you go back and watch any old Western, Gangster film, Melodrama and Comedy from classic Hollywood, those films will reveal a huge amount of sexist behavior towards women. Even in the great wave of movies from the 60s and 70s exhibited some deplorable behavior by men beating, cursing and dominating their women. So to try to pin this simply on “rap music always carried this type of material” when you exclude that the overall Pop culture is misogynistic is very disingenuous in my opinion. Men have been calling their women “b*tches,” “c*nts,” “wh*res,” etc. far before Hip Hop music dominated the music world. Hip Hop isn’t the only genre of music that’s offensively sexist, materialistic, homophobic and rebellious. I think it’s tacky journalism to swift the blame on “Hip Hop” for bringing to light what SOME black men call their women, when movies, music, television, etc., have always given us the glimpse of certain sections in lower society that someone overly-privileged never heard of. Rap music is no more sexist, materialistic and homophobic than a Martin Scorsese and Quentin Tarantino movie. And for every “ho” that a black man calls his wife or girlfriend, there’s an equally sexist remark made by their Asian, White and Latino brethren. Then again black men have always been stereotyped as the "savaged beast" so this does nothing but justify the age on myth that they’re far more violent, inhumane and tribal than other races. All popular entertainment is driven by sensationalism and crude entertainment. Hip Hop isn’t the birth of obscenities and for these journalists to act as if America before Hip Hop was like an episode of “Leave It To Beaver” is pretty lame.Before Hip Hop pundits and writers blamed the decline of America “apple pie” values on Elvis and his love for “Negro music” which was viewed as primitive and savagely expressive; faster forward four decades later it was grunge that was influencing our youth to act out haphazardly; now all the blame is placed right smack in the lap of Hip Hop.
This is what happens when you have the media that’s predominately white and middle of the road, with no single minority view point to education and remind others who try to swift the blame solely on people of color and their behavior, rather than recognizing that we as a country have an issue with misogyny and flawed misconception of what makes a man really a man. And then when you do have intelligent whites who can challenge such a view point (perhaps like Media Matter’s very own Eric Alterman), you’ll never see them because they’re pegged to be “too far left.” Mainstream Media is a complete disgrace.
Yeah, whatever Preston. Bottom line, the black community shoots themselves in the foot everytime. The ONLY minority that uses its own stereotypes to degrade one another. Not too many Chinese people going around calling each other the "Ch - k" word. Not too many Mexican's going around calling each other "Wet-". Lol. And history between Blacks and Whites in America??? Ya know, most of us didn't even arrive until the last century and a lot of us are not White (I happen to be Iranian). Give me a break. Jews have had one of the most horrific history's with Hitler and all, but they seem to pull themselves up and prosper. You know and I know that Blacks will be complaining about racism for eternity. Why not?? Very lucrative for the Sharptons and Jacksons.
Way to go Zamfir, don't let a thoughtful comment get in the way of a good talking point. You might actually learn something.
Man oh man, talk about people who are completely ignorant. Is this how bad our public schools has become when someone’s argument is so weak they’ll use “Jews can pull themselves up and prosper [why can’t you biologically inferior porch monkeys?]” Aren’t you even aware it was MANY AMERICAN JEWS that marched and were killed in the Civil Rights Movement because they empathetic over the conditions blacks were suffering from occupational apartheid? Are you that stupid to realize that there are tons of Jewish-American scholars TODAY that continues writing groundbreaking after groundbreaking books that institutionalized racism is alive and well today? Are you that intellectually bankrupt to even compare the two when millions of tenth-generation African Americans are still living in horrible ghettos? Since you brought up immigrants and how they can “prosper” while blacks can’t, here’s a JEWISH sociologist who debunks the age old myth that blacks are incapable of pulling up their boot straps and succeeding on equal terms as those whose ancestors weren’t here since 1619:http://www.wpunj.edu/~newpol/issue39/Steinberg39.htm
Furthermore, I don’t give a damn that you’re Iranian, it just proves to me that you’re no different than that other racist, hateful immigrant who wrote the must disgusting book imaginable about blacks in this country: Dinish D’Sousa! You think just because you’re not white you can’t be racist? Please, some of my own people on the Right sell themselves out to, quote Armond White, “profit from acknowledging-then-cheerleading white mistrust of black scofflaws and freeloaders.” When I read and hear the same weak rhetoric by the likes of Stanley Crouch, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, Jesse Lee Peterson, John McWhorters, Armstrong Williams, Shelby Steele, etc., do you honestly think that I’m surprised a non-white immigrant such as yourself would be just as hateful, smug and elitist as the aforementioned? Besides, this is all part of becoming an “American” when you join the club and stick your nose up at blacks by saying “I’m nothing like them.” Immigrants did it when they came over here and arrived in the 20s and 30s, so your condescending remarks doesn’t surprise me; I expect it.
First, you need to understand that words and phrases are very much a cultural tradition. They are as much a cultural tradition as bowing in Japanese culture. Just because a group of people gets to do something and you don't, you just have to accept that because it's part of their culture.
In the black community, as well as many minority communities (including gays), there is a move to take nasty words and use them amongst each other. By doing that, they in a way take out the nastiness in the word. Moreover, the people that created the derogatory term lose the right to say the word and this is basically a move of empowerment in groups that usually have a lot less power. I think the term "bitch" is a perfect example for some feminist.
Finally, your other point is equally weak, that blacks are the only ones who profit from promoting ethnic stereotypes in the media. I guess I was daydreaming when many Italian groups have protested against stereotypic mob depictions by The Sopranos and Scorsese’s movies; I guess there’s not a single stereotypic movie, song or television show that hasn’t been produced by Latinos, Irish, Jews, etc., that in some form or another made a profit from an age old stereotype in their ethnic group, is that what you’re implying? Please educate yourself quickly because you are by far the most dense person I’ve talked to here at MM.[cont'd] Finally, your other point is equally weak, that blacks are the only ones who profit from promoting ethnic stereotypes in the media. I guess I was daydreaming when many Italian groups have protested against stereotypic mob depictions by The Sopranos and Scorsese’s movies; I guess there’s not a single stereotypic movie, song or television show that hasn’t been produced by Latinos, Irish, Jews, etc., that in some form or another made a profit from an age old stereotype in their ethnic group, is that what you’re implying? Please educate yourself quickly because you are by far the densest person I’ve talked to here at MM.
Preston, if you haven't got a blog I hope you get one. I wish I had the patience to write more than a snippy little comment now and again, but your writing deserves broader exposure.
Valentinian, thanks for the compliment. I’ve always thought about starting a blog but I’m still trying to hone my writing skills and perfect it before I take up that challenge (i.e. my malapropisms and typos are quite noticeable here, I’m sure). By the way, I’m a fan of your writing here as well. You’re one of the many sensible people here that discusses races with a deep understanding how to fight current racism of today. We need more folks like you in America, that’s for sure.
Preston, I thank you... feels like I am a sprinter rather than a distance runner, but I try my best.
Try not to be too worried about your writing style - it seems fine to me. Start a blog, establish a readership, and you'll get lots of feedback, which is what a writer really needs. Maybe not for the faint of heart, but definitely worth it.
So YOUR white friends are happy racist appolgists, fine, doesnt mean NO ONE, does it? No obviously as I said MSNBC takes it seriously so do I and it seem Val and quite a few people on this site show that you are delusional when you claim NO ONE takes it seriously. Every culture has a component that denigrates its own for pleasure or profit. There is a very old saying that if you even want to roast an Irishman you can always find another Irishman to turn the spit. Look at the uproar apparantly a whole lot of people take racism seriously. Racist appolgists notwithstanding.
Anyone that matters doesn't care. That's my point :-)
...and certainly the people that matter are you and your friends? The truth is you are the simpleton that I spoke of yesterday. A simple mind will take the destructiveness of the gansta rap culture and conclude that no respect is warranted for Black women because there is this small segment of Black men that won't show them any. I am a Black woman and I find the gansta rapper culture to be completely offensive, destructive, and moronic and it does not reflect mainstream AA culture as people like you, Don Imus, and his bud Bernie want to believe. It certainly doesn't reflect me, my family, or any of the people I know. I am neither a ho nor a bitch or any other pejorative you can assign to women. Why is it that you feel the need to take the most negative image of people in the Black community as being representative of the whole. Ask that question of your important friends the next time you're together, you may learn some things about yourselves, although somehow you don’t come off as being the reflective type.
Anyone that cares doesnt matter to YOU. Since it will get into the way of your racist appoligies. I guess the people who run MSNBC matter to people including Imus. This is just you being shown to be wrong, then redefining your terms. The people who care about racism dont matter because YOU think YOU can define who does and doesnt matter. Well that says a lot. About YOU, that you decide someone doesnt matter if they dont like racism because YOU want to appolgise for it. Racism matters, racist slurs matter, it only speaks to YOUR character that they dont matter to you and that you would dismiss people because it matters to them. Luckily its people like YOU who dont matter as racism is NOT dismissed in this country and it IS taken seriously, good job defining yourself into insignificance.
"How can anyone respect the black community as a whole if they don't even respect themselves? "
Are you f*cking serious? Are you saying the entire black community doesn't respect itself. There are groups of white supremist neo nazis spread across the country, as well as most of the documented serial killers (white), as well as crooked CEOs. is it fair of me to assign those negatives to the entire white communtiy?
"When will Sharpton and Jackson start attacking rappers that use every demeaning word in the dictionary to describe their way of life?"
They have been for years.
None of my white friends take [racism] seriously anymore. Things like this just make us laugh in hysteria.
Gee, what a surprise.
"or listening to those who do without any danger of consequences"
Are you seriously saying that a U.S. citizen doesn't have the right to say or listen to racist remarks? If so, then that's pretty scary. I knew that you were opposed to free speech rights, but I didn't think that you took it to such an extreme.
Nobody has the "right" to be free of consequences, Rino. You drop a glass, the glass breaks. You drink, you get drunk. You act like a jerk, you offend people. Consequences.
Don't blame "PC" for everything in the world that doesn't suit you. That's just being a victim.
You KNEW no such thing. Which is apparant since you KNOW very little indeed. There is NO free speech issue here. You only show how little you know about what you are talking about pretending there is. When Imus is arrested for his bigotry get back to us. Until then perhaps you may someday learn one of lifes most important lessons ACTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. Spouting racist slurs have consequences, now until that includes getting arrested then it wont rise to the level of a free speech issue. Act like a jerk and people will call you on it. Spout racist slurs people will criticise you THOSE are consequences. This isnt really that complicated.
RINO,
You ceratinly have a right to be a racist if that's what you want to be and you can account for that choice with the big guy on judgement day. That's your perogative, but if you choose to spout racist, sexist, homophobic views on the PUBLIC airways we certainly have an obligation to regulate that. YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO USE THE PUBLIC AIRWAVES TO OFFEND OTHERS. So you can get up in the morning and shout n-word, ho, bitch in your home to the top of your lungs all you want and you can hate whomever you want, but it shouldn't be on the public airways and it's time to regulate this crap and that gos for the gansta rap as well. If you want to buy gansta rap and listen to it in the privacy of your home, car, clubs do that, but I have been subjected to this music when I did not choose to be because someone is playing at top volume while they are driving past me.
Imus's argument seems to be, "I'm not a racist, I just play one on TV (and on the radio)."
Thats pretty good Bruce. Yeah, thats how it looks to me. It might even be true.
Has anyone watched Chapell or South Park? Isn't Imus' show supposed to be satirical? If this was a politician it would be an outrage because they aren't funny but last I checked Imus is an old guy who makes fun of the news. Looking towards a satirist for the straight scoop is like looking towards Al Sharpton to run The United States.
No that is NOT satire unless he was making fun of racists who make such slurs. Nothing in the context supports this assertion.
Stop saying your sorry to these racially motivated life long instigators of racism. They haven't had a story in several months and you are it. Explain to the public you have been doing your show that way for a long time. And your comments never got as much attention as they have now...why .....because they have nothing else to do. If those women are "hurt" by your statements I have one thing to say to them get over it it's life. It was a comedic statement made to make fun of the newest news. This is just dumb they can call themselves all the derogatory names they want but you say nappy headed hoes and they threaten to ban you..stand up for your rights to free speech....Just some info from African American people in the public..."Hair PieceA Film for Nappy-Headed PeopleA film by Ayoka Chenzira1985, 10 minutes, Color, VHS/16mmOrder No. W99218An animated satire on the question of self image for African American women living in a society where beautiful hair is viewed as hair that blows in the wind and lets you be free. Lively tunes and witty narration accompany a quick-paced inventory of relaxers, gels and curlers. Such rituals are all-too familiar to African American women-and indeed to all women confronted with an unattainable ideal of beauty. This short film has become essential for discussions of racism, African American cinema and empowerment. Used by hundreds of groups as diverse as museums, churches, hospitals and hair stylists."And since when did nappy headed refer to African Americans? Are they the only one with hair that gets "nappy" seems more to me like they want some money from you. I see lawsuit in the future for you if you don't come out and put this to a rest. In no way does nappy headed mean African American and in now way does hoe mean African American so why is the race card being played......is it because it was said about a mostly black team?...That seems racist to me considering they have white women on their team also...is that not racist throwing their feelings out and assuming it was only meant for the black women?
In no way does nappy headed mean African American and in now way does hoe mean African American
Riiight. If you can find one example of a white woman ever being called a "nappy headed ho" in any way other than ironically, I might pay attention to this argument, Jon. Right now you just sound silly.
If those women are "hurt" by your statements I have one thing to say to them get over it it's life.
Exactly. Imus' right to insult them shouldn't stop there. You should be able to tell them how they should feel about being slurred.
God bless America.
If you actually watch/listen to Imus say the "derogatory" remarks, he is talking like he is a "gangsta". You know, all that gangsta stuff we learn on the rap CD's. See the consequences rap has on our culture now? It's only natural that whites will start talking like the "rappas" once in a while. Oh, but you'll kick Bill Cosby is the butt if he says the same thing.
Who were kicking Bill Cosby in the butt? As I recall Sharpton, Jackson, Cornel West, Spike Lee, Louis Farrakhan, etc., all agreed with Cosby's remarks, as well as many in the black community. Are you even aware that Jackson was standing right behind Cosby when he made his speech, applauding him, as well as blacks in the audience? So once again you're proving your ignorance when you speak on things you don't know a damn thing about. Even Cosby the following day on Tavis Smiley's show said some of the things in his speech didn't come out properly, and yet idiots such as yourself and the Right have taken his words completely out of context and use them to justify and rationalize your hate and racism towards inner city blacks. Incredible. Why racist and people on the Right try to adopt Cosby as one of their own and use him as a tool to hide behind their own racial antipathy is beyond me when it is clear that while upset, his words were meant to encourage and uplift, not to condemn and despise blacks. So will you, Buchanan, Carlson, O’Reilly, Hannity, Beck and others who aren’t holding up their end of the deal by checking themselves and their outdated views, STOP USING COSBY AS A WEAPON TO HIDE BEHIND RACIAL misanthropy against inner city blacks! Stop acting as if Cosby was the first to “chastise” his people to break the psychologically chains of slavery! He wasn't the first nor will he be the last.Karin L. Stanford at Salon wrote an incredible article about this when the story first broke and how journalists and pundits spin this thing to the point where iit created this division among blacks just to have a sensationalistic news story:http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2004/08/23/cosby/index.html Furthermore, Imus wasn't talking in a "gangsta" style or whatever the hell that meant. Him and McGuirk were engaging in their usual locker-room type humor that went way too far since their views of race are extremely outdated, thus their humor crossed the line. So once again stop trying to switch the blame off of Imus by placing it on those "gangsta rappas" you arrogant ignoramus.
You know Preston, you are right. Gangsta rap has offerred so much to the youth in this country. I think it is wonderful when drugs, killing, and disrepect in general is glorified. Stop acting like rap doesn't have the influence that it obviously does.
Achrispage6992, are you saying that everything that's wrong in urban America has to do with Hip Hop music? Because if you're that historically dense then I guess you don't realize that there has been crime and poverty among blacks way before Hip Hop ever hit the picture, so no, I don't blame Hip Hop as to why certain blacks are in these living conditions. It could be part of the problem but it sho' as hell ain't the main problem. Racism, poor public school systems, low job market, etc., create lot of the problems in urban America. It’s easy to just say that morally blacks are just naturally immoral and lack social standards and grace compared to whites and Asians. But the fact of the matter is African Americans and Native Americans have always been considered the lowest common denominator in this country, and what ever crime and dysfunction that arises from certain areas has a lot to do with the economic conditions, racism, self-sabotage and depression than our entertainment industry. Your comeback is the typical talking point one can hear from a cold-hearted, antipathetic reactionary like Bill O'Reilly and Pat Buchanan, people who never lived a single day in urban America yet self-appointed themselves as commentators who holds wisdom and understanding of the inner-workings of the community, when they know jack sh*t. And while we're at it, should I blame pseudo-Satanic rockers for all the shootings in high schools by many white students dressed in trench coats and Goth makeup? I guess it's all the music industry’s fault, right? Until people like you stop using the entertainment industry as a scapegoat and recognize their own personal, misguided opinions, and resolving them, things will never change for the better.The real issue here isn't Hip Hop, it's assumptions about race. There are a lot of rich white kids spending a lot of money buying hip hop clothes but we don't condemn their morals the way some do when they see a young black man wearing the same sneakers. Morever, we don't have the same fears and emotional reactions to what we think those clothes and words symbolize or "signify." Black folks signify. It doesn't mean they're low-class or unworthy of an education or criminals.
The life choices many are afforded and made privy to are VASTLY different than those of a kid who grows up in a failing public school system that doesn't offer basic math/reading skills, much less the AP courses and college prep curriculum most of in "white flight" suburbs could choose from. Not to mention the luxury that many from the suburbs didn't enjoy: the opportunity to choose from private colleges where yearly tuition exceeds the average salary of an American parent. Students in poor schools don't have access to the college board exam prep classes and are particularly disadvantaged in math and science, which hurt their preparation to succeed in these career-track majors in college (not to mention in college admissions). Their teachers and school counselors (they may not have a "college counselor") suggest community colleges or trade schools, if they suggest any further schooling at all based on unfairly low expectations.
It's hard to succeed in college when your high school lacks the resources to prepare you for the rigor and advanced background assumed in college coursework. It's hard to catch up and it requires THAT much more work to even have a chance to compete. This isn't an excuse; it's a reality that's unfair to many bright students who don't receive the proper mentoring and support well-to-do students take for granted. Until you have had experience in rising above "whatever," save the patronizing sentiments. To swift the blame all on Hip Hop while excluding other factors is an implicit moral condemnation: there are lots of kids who CHOOSE to follow the right path who are continually underestimated, unrewarded, and eventually frustrated by the continual racism in this country that views African-Americans as intellectually and academically inferior.
That is fari enough Preston. And I don't believe that hip hop is the sole cause of urban american problems. I do believe that it more than just a mitagating factor. The problem is that the lifestyle and cultural ideology put forth by alot of these gangsta rap stars are denigrating to positive ethics and morality. When youth (black or white) see these guys as role models and emulate their behavior that is a big problem. Furthermore I can't disagree with you in general as to the socio-economic issues which lend to inequality in urban settings and as such breed failure on a larger scale than other American institutional settings. I do believe that you are forgetting (maybe not) the role and importance of personal responsibility. This begins at home and the data shows us that black youth in urban settings are far more likely to come from one parent homes. Therefore you have a breakdown in the family unit which I think we can all agree is essential to not only health children but healthy communites as well. I dont' think that it will do any good to throw money towards entitlement programs if we can't first reestablish the importance of the two parent family and personal responsibility.
I think our retarded national debate on these issues people usually advance one end of the equation to the exclusion of the other - what is needed, it seems, is the right balance of social support and personal responsibility.
Now I can't disagree with that. See I told you I wasn't a conservative prick.
Oh, I never thought you were conservative! ;-)
As a prick myself, I find pricks easier to get along with. You know where you stand with them, which is nice. This is a very prick-friendly site. Which I guess makes it a hostile site. Anyway, welcome!
achrispage6992, I agree with many of the things you said (wow, didn’t think I would say that!) Once again I do want to apologize if I come off a strongly whenever I reply back to you. I guess because I’ve encountered so many people on the net who’ll just stick their noses up to the things by replying “Yeah, whatever” I become aggressive to the opposing side because of their sheer indifference. Talk of individualism is fun and easy if one have grown up privileged and never really had to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. It also abdicates one of any responsibility for changing society and helping others improve their education and status. Our society isn't color-blind: it's racist in so many ways, in virtually all our encounters and actions. You can deny that reality or be moved by it. And I think that anyone who uses the language of ethics and morality should really think about THAT choice and how they in turn are defined by it. Read "Savage Inequalities" by Jonathan Kozol if you want to understand WHY kids in poor, failing school systems give up and drop out. When we fail to support inner-city schools that lack basic textbooks and punish schools for their own poverty through "No Child Left Behind," there's no wonder both teachers and students lose their motivation to learn and achieve. THIS is where I criticize so-called black leaders such as Sharpton and Jackson. Instead of protesting outside the CBS building to get Imus fired, they should be protesting so the government can fix the poor public school systems that created a lot of this mess we have in urban America.
Parenting in this country is a problem in general; isolating poor black families as being uniquely poor parents with poor priorities seems cruel, unnecessary and untrue. Most of our "evidence" for "poor black parenting" is anecdotal, like Cosby's talk about buying gym shoes instead of textbooks. How common do you think that REALLY is? If there are poor choices people make that affect their families (things like being a dope addict), we should do our best to give them resources to overcome their problems and have a chance to succeed without being blamed for the "evils" we associate with some races more than others subconsciously, and often, consciously and overtly. And we shouldn't let our moral language about choice distract us from our ETHICAL call to change the structural injustices that make survival and those "good" choices extremely difficult for far too many for far too long. I hope THAT element of racism in America moves people as much as their visceral reaction to seeing a "street thug" wearing "$500 sneakers" and "not speaking English."
I don't think some people really get the psychology of oppression. Of course all young people should be encouraged to dream the biggest dreams they can, but so many of our young people are beaten down by the harsh realities they see around them in everyday life that their dreams don't ever see any encouragement. And I'm not sure it's the best gesture for adults who do have the freedom to make unfettered choices to lecture them about the failures of "their culture" and "their choices" when our society as a whole has made an awful lot of bad choices and has a lot of cultural prejudices we either deny or smugly refuse to deal with. Where's the Right and their talk of accountability on their side? Where's their "adult" notion of responsibility toward people who are oppressed by their ignorance or indifference? As the great essayist Tim Wise said, “personal responsibility is a two-way street.”
I get your drift Preston. You have a valid argument but I have to repsectfully disagree with what I think is your basic premise. I will say that it is in fact easy to get sucked into the ideology, that many people find themselves in, myself included, in which we lose sight of the circumstances given to other people and we tend to have what I call the "if I can do it they should be able to as well" attitude. You bring up an interesting point in that people who have never really had to pull themselves up by the bootstraps find that to be easy. Nevertheless, I think that it is valid to make cultural judgements especially when opportunities are present but are not taken advantage of. Let me say with difinitivness that it is not just the black culture who seems to do this. I have seen it first hand on numerous indian reservations throughout the western portion of this country and it occurs with frequency in other areas as well, Hell's kitchen is a good example. That being said, I don't want to come off as someone who believes that all individual failure is caused by personal shortcomings. I also don't believe that it is the fault of the government. Which leads me to my disagreement. You indicated that we should GIVE people the resources to overcome bad personal decisions and that the government should be the primary benefactor in the education system. Maybe that is not what you meant, if so I apologize. In any event, there comes a time when everyperson has to realize that they hold the key to how their life will be. All the government asisstance in the world cannot change life in a ghetto or reservation. There has to be a change in how these people perceive themselves and they must make a concerted effort to do for themselves in a manner which will provide for the common good. I hate to say this but sometimes conformity is undeniably a positive attribute. How do you instill the idea that to become mainstream is success? How do you teach children that having a two parent family, strong marriages, and morality is something to strive for? Someone mentioned subtle racism earlier. I thought to be profound and had never thought of that, I always saw it as a black and white issue (no pun intended). I believe that to end racism people have to see others as equal to themselves. I think that starts at home with as little government intervention as possible.
Chris, there have been many sociologists who point out the endurance of inherited wealth in this country, where traditionally wealthy families (many from the East Coast) have spread their enterprise around the country and remained dominant among the top 1% of wealth in this country that controls the vast majority of the movement of capital in this country. Let's not pretend that there isn't a distinctly historical imbalance of wealth distribution that makes this one of the most unequal nations in the history of the industrialized world.
Technically speaking, African-Americans are a textbook underclass and the arguments for the moral failure (tied to criticisms of academic, economic and criminal behavior) of blacks in this nation are virtually identical to the criticisms of racial minority groups in the history of virtually every colonial experience. The British still attribute the same moral criticisms to Indians and Pakistanis in their nation, who are still considered poor, inferior, morally suspect minorities who live in "slums" in London. Considering the positive reputation which South Asian immigrants have in this country, where they are consistently the most educated immigrants who arrive on our shores, how can the difference in which group becomes the underclass be explained by anything but enduring, socially constructed prejudices and structural discrimination? Indians are the UK's blacks, where the racial slur "Paki" is basically the equivalent of our N-word as one of the most hatefully backwards word in the vernacular. Are we to attribute this to some sort of fundamental moral failing in their home culture, some pseudo-scientific "Darwininan" explanation of their fitness to survive? Or can this be an illustrative example of the unique processes by which socialized discrimination endures? The history of the Irish in the UK is another example.
If it seems like it's the SAME groups that are continuously being "naturally selected out," then it's obligatory upon not only the minority culture but the dominant culture to answer for the morality of that situation. Sit down with one of your friends that’s Indian and have an honest discussion about the way Native Americans have been misperceived and excluded from mainstream society over hundreds of years. You may think you relate to some of them completely on your own terms as a white man, but I'm sure their experience of "economic morality" and racial pre-judgment is much richer and more mature than your perspective. Yes, some of them may well be conservatives who thinks Natives need to work on themselves to get past alcoholism or poverty through education, but it doesn't change the fact that they have some personal understanding of WHY Natives feel that their hard work won't pay off in a way that's fair, economically or socially. No one would rationally choose to be poor and suffer. And to attribute that sort of self-hatred to others is borderline morally monstrous and possibly most accurately a projection of people's own hatreds. Keep in mind too that welfare has been almost completely dismantled in this country, for better or worse, and that the "culture of dependency" argument is so 1980s. Now, people know they can't rely on the government for significant aid to live by or readily available job training or quality schools and they make do with what they don't have. We've broken the "welfare state" model for almost a full decade and we've seen an increase in poverty, not a decrease. People don't find the minimum-wage service sector jobs livable for their families, and that's why there's been a marked increase in child poverty, hunger, and parental presence as a result of a less-than-serious commitment to creating good jobs with a decent wage for former welfare recipients. Anyone in education who's so oblivious to the notably successful efforts in inner city schools to use funding for magnet-type programs and to raise standards and test scores as a result should really read up on the more recent literature. Granted, some may say this is more about class than race, but it can't be ignored that the primary focus of economic discrimination in American society has always been racial. You can't talk about poverty without talking about race because blacks and Hispanic immigrants are the poorest and definitely subject to the last hired/first fired phenomenon.
We are just going to have to disagree as to the best way to change the social environment. As I explained to Valentinian(?) my arguments are not solely based on perception. I am 1/2 Lakota. I was born on the Rosebud Sioux Reservation in South Dakota. This is why I attempted to get some of the bloggers to answer my question as to whether they have done anything to assist native americans considering the fact that they all felt that they were grossly wronged by the government. I never got one by the way. But my point is that I arrive at my opinions from first hand experience as a person who has risen above my environment. Granted, I had it much easier as I moved away at an early age and was lucky enough to have a father and mother who instilled the importance of education and morality to me. I have spent most of my life trying to give back and help native americans. After Vietnam, I was forced to work so I could raise my family. Now, I could have surrendered to my surroundings and quite frankly could have become another statistic. But I didn't. I think the primary reason was because I realized that noone was going to give me anything. I wanted a family, a good job, house, car, dog, and all that jazz. Why did I want those things? Because to me that was success. I wouldn't be telling you all of this if I thought that such an approach was futile because of cultural, social, and environmental roadblocks. On the reservations there is a present movement to reestablish the importance of the family. Government assistance is frowned upon. Alot of these people have come to the realization that cradle to grave assistance provides no incentive and destroys ambition. This movement aims to use traditional ways with common sense individual responsibility in an effort to make ourselves part of American society rather than a forgotten community. My point here is that some have come to realize that the governments way of helping is only hurting. I am certainly not Reaganesque in my approach to social programs. I realize their value. I really believe that government assistance should be met with results.
I realize that there is a concentration of wealth in this country. But, I also know that this country has afforded millions the opportunity to succeed. Is it harder for some because of skin color? Absolutely. Is that fair? Absolutely not. Is redistribution of wealth the answer? I don't think so. Does the government have a responsibility to assist and provide opportunities to those less fortunate? You bet they do. Do people have a responsibility to make smart personal choices? Yep. I know the cyclical nature of poverty and to some extent racism. Rising above that is possible. It takes only one generation to make a difference.
Your struggle is inspiring and I’m sure you overcame a lot of judgments people made about you that made it harder for you to find success and happiness. Remembering all that you went through, I think that perhaps you might find some empathy for those who also grow up poor, sometimes without family support, and are stereotyped for things that don't define their character. I would think you'd want to reach out and help those who are going through as much struggle as you did rather than lecturing them. If we're serious about reaching poor folks—especially poor kids—and motivating them, we need to try and understand them enough that we don't seem patronizing and destroy their self-esteem. OF COURSE everyone should have a great family, a nice house, lots of books around, and all the things we saw on “The Cosby Show.” “The Cosby Show” demonstrate that even with those advantages, life isn't always perfect. But for those who are denied many of those things every kid deserves through no fault of their own, grandstanding about their poor choices in life doesn't seem productive or helpful. Finally I’m going to quote something by great sociologist Stephen Steinberg that he wrote in his book “Taking Back:”
“Job crisis is the single most important factor behind the familiar tangle of problems that beset black communities. Without jobs, nuclear families become unglued or are never formed. Without jobs, or husbands with jobs, women with young children are forced onto the welfare rolls. Without jobs, many ghetto youth resort to the drug trade or other illicit ways of making money. Ironically, those who end up in prison do find work—in prison shops that typically pay fifty cents or less an hour—only to find themselves jobless on the outside. Given this fact, the high rate of recidivism should come as no surprise. For different reasons, schools are generally ineffective in teaching children whose parents lack stable jobs and incomes. In short, there is no exit from the racial quagmire unless there is a national commitment to address the job crisis in black America.Tragically, this nation does not have the political will to confront its legacy of slavery, even if this means nothing more than providing jobs at decent wages for blacks who continue to be relegated to the fringes of the job market. Instead, a mythology has been constructed that, in ways reminiscent of slavery itself, alleges that blacks are inefficient and unproductive workers, deficient in work habits and moral qualities that delivered other groups from poverty. Nor is this cultural blaming of the victim any longer characteristic only of the political right. Many prominent liberals, inside and outside the academy, have resorted to gratuitous clucking about the cultural patterns of black families and black youth, utterly confusing cause and effect. [...] Others on the left have declared that the problems confronting black America have less to do with race than with class, a strange message for the millions of tenth-generation African-Americans till condemned to live out their lives in impoverished ghettos. By reifying “class” and shifting the focus away from “race,” these theorists unwittingly undermine the anti-racist movement. They absolve the nation of moral and political responsibility for making restitution for its three-hundred-year crime, and play into the hands of those on the right who have already succeeded in removing issues of racial justice form the national agenda.”
Sorry, for some reason the first paragraph of that quote the font appeared too small. Here's the first part:
“Job crisis is the single most important factor behind the familiar tangle of problems that beset black communities. Without jobs, nuclear families become unglued or are never formed. Without jobs, or husbands with jobs, women with young children are forced onto the welfare rolls. Without jobs, many ghetto youth resort to the drug trade or other illicit ways of making money. Ironically, those who end up in prison do find work—in prison shops that typically pay fifty cents or less an hour—only to find themselves jobless on the outside. Given this fact, the high rate of recidivism should come as no surprise. For different reasons, schools are generally ineffective in teaching children whose parents lack stable jobs and incomes. In short, there is no exit from the racial quagmire unless there is a national commitment to address the job crisis in black America.
Zamfir, even Imus himself isn't using such an idiotic excuse.
I think the "Master of the Pan-pipe" is out of his depth in this conversation
I would like to defend Imus in this matter. Yes the comment was not nice but I strongly feel he did not make in a racial way everyone has taken the matter to that extreme. A nappy headed ** can be a white girl as well. Now I feel he has paid his dues by apologizing and he should NOT BE FIRED, that is just silly to even be an issue. He is a shock jock and I do not feel he was saying it to be negative he was only making A JOKE. Which I will agree was not nice and it ended up coming out all wrong. Imus I will say you are still loved by many and I will continue to watch you daily.
Heather
While I agree that he is paying his dues, please stop with the "A nappy headed ** can be a white girl as well" because that's just nonsense. Had the team he'd been referring to been all white, "nappy" would never have come to mind.
Look, the guy was trying to be funny, and in the moment reached back into his brain and pulled out something offensive. It's happened to us all. And we apologize and move on.
But Imus has a responsibility to watch his mouth. So his punishment is and might be even more severe. And so far, it looks like he's at least partially taking it well.
So stop trying to say it wasn't "racist." To debate that is just silly.
Two weeks off with pay. Why does no one ever ask me to pay those kinds of dues?
You know something people: I'm a black man and I watch Imus' show and enjoy it!! When he said what he said I was surprised but I still laughed anyway because it was funny. It was funny, ok!! If this had been said by Chris Rock, Chris Tucker, Dave Chappelle, or any other black comic it would have been funny and not noticed by the media. Because Imus is white I immediately knew the Fake Rage Specialists(FRS's) would pounce on this seeking blood.
The FRS's would like to see Imus fired. What's that going to solve?! Nothing. He'll go to another outlet - possibly satellite radio - and resume his gimmick. But if Imus is allowed to stay on the radio and try to make some constructive inroads into true race relations - simular to the efforts he's done with the Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund(which as a Navy veteran coming from a family with a proud history of serving in the armed forces, I appreciate), his ranch project and other things he gets behind it'll be a refreshing dialogue. Not this stale dialogue that has been the case since the '60's. The Micheal Richards meltdown was far more serious than this - and I may be wrong - but didn't Sharpton offer Richards a chance for 'redemption'. In Al Sharpton's mind his star has diminished and by taking Imus down, in his mind, the luster would be restored. BS. His star was never that bright and Senator Obama's meteoric rise just has to be eating him up inside!!
Plus, how are you gonna have a radio show in NYC that isn't on the radio in NYC.
Top 10 Fake Rage Specialists(FRS's)
10 - Micheal Smith, Around the Horn fame(ESPN) for saying Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton's misspeaks were not comparable to Imus'
9 - Pat Summitt, Tennessee Vol. coach for saying Imus should be fired for what he said. I'm sure she's heard much worse in the SEC that wasn't even given a second thought.
8 - Al Roker - WHO??!!
7 - Any other self appointed leader of the black community - especially if you were stupid enough to say Bill Clinton was the 1st black prez. DON'T EVEN GET ME START ON THEM!!
6 - Anybody who feigns outrage at Imus but has been on the show in the last 10 years - c'mon you know the gimmick.
5 - Anybody at MSNBC who decides to pile on anonymously or not
4 - Anybody at FOX Noise - ANYBODY!!
3 - Jesse Jackson - anybody remember 'hymietown'?
2 - Al Sharpton - please, get real!!
1 - Keith Olberman - you can just see he wants to bust out with a self absorbed, pretentious rant. He turns red in the face just talking about it!!
Your post sounds like what the right wingers say to jutify something when they get caught like a deer in the headlights but I'm going to equate it to what is being said about rappers and Imus."clinton did it"
Eniobob,
I find your post interesting in the fact that you are exhibiting another form of prejudice by taking one person's comments, making disparaging assumptions, and assigning them to a whole group of people. In this case conservatives.
It isn't racism, but it is the same thought process. You obviously feel it is acceptable to make blanket prejudicial statements about those on the right. If your statement were about a race of people it would be roundly criticized as being racist.
Be that as it may, the deeper issue is that these sorts of groupings of people, whether based on color or political views, seems to be very natural. I'm not saying it is the right thing to do, but that it seems that many people do it without thinking.
I don't go to the far right discussion boards, but I imagine they say the same thing about liberals as you do about conservatives.
I have had many discussions with liberals here and both liberals and conservatives alike make judgements about what the other groups thinks and or stands for, without realizing we too are falling into the trap of generalizing to a group the actions of a few. Yes, I too am guilty of saying "You liberals..."
It is an interesting issue and one that is full of contradictions. I am enjoying reading the different points of view.
Good Lord Another American,
You do know that everything isn't about being Liberal and Conservative or right and left. So why does everything you talk about have to be framed in that manner.
I am tired of the censorship and double standards in this country. The ideal of free speech appears to only be a right for a select few. Am I as a Caucasian supposed to be so thin skinned that I take offense every time I hear the word "Cracker" or 'Whitey" on the TV, or in the songs that are played on the radio? Should I be calling for appologies from every station I hear these words on. This country was founded upon some clear and simple ideals laid out in the Bill of Rights. It is time to tell all the thin skinned people, that take offense to any little thing, that they should move to another Country and stop wasting the American people's time with such nonsense.
Yup call every station. Just like freedom of speak, freedom of protest (assembly) is also allowed. Let me know what they say when you call.
"Am I as a Caucasian supposed to be so thin skinned that I take offense every time I hear the word "Cracker" or 'Whitey" on the TV, or in the songs that are played on the radio?"
It your right to if you so choose. It is also your perogitive to completely ignore it.
"Should I be calling for appologies from every station I hear these words on."
It your right to if you so choose. It is also your perogitive to completely ignore it.
Todd,
The only time I generally hear the word Whitey and Cracker is when some right winger states it on these message boards or when some comedian who lacks the skill and imagination necessary to perform comedy without relying on shock words says it. I'm Black and I'm in the company of Black people all the time and I honestly know of no one who uses these terms in my everyday world; and I can't recall hearing them on mainstream broadcast programming. Moreover, I'll let you in on a little secret ...Chris Rock and Fifty Cents are not representative of most Blacks. I honestly think there is a sizable portion of the White community that doesn't seem to know that. Sadly, that portion is not as knowledgebal and well informed as they believe they are.
This country was founded upon some clear and simple ideals laid out in the Bill of Rights. It is time to tell all the thin skinned people, that take offense to any little thing, that they should move to another Country and stop wasting the American people's time with such nonsense.
Love it or leave it, baby! I just dig it when people use wave the Bill of Rights around and then tell people they can't exercise those same rights.
I am tired of the censorship and double standards in this country.
You sound kind of thin-skinned, Todd. Tell ya what, why don't you move to some other country - like, I don't know, Assholia - and stop wasting the American people's time getting offended at every little thing.
Okay, Champ? See ya.
"The ideal of free speech appears to only be a right for a select few."
Oh, spare me. Blacks and other minorties are not the priviledged ones in this nation. Also, Imus does not have a right to make racially charged comments over the public airwaves. No one is lyhncing him or locking him up for making the remarks, but he is rightfully paying the consequences.
"Am I as a Caucasian supposed to be so thin skinned that I take offense every time I hear the word "Cracker" or 'Whitey" on the TV, or in the songs that are played on the radio? "
First, I can't believe you think that it is overly sensitive of people to actually take offense at the term "nappy-headed hoes"... Which TV programs and radio stations regularly employ the words "cracker" and "whitey", and in what context are they used?
You say that the "minorities" are not privledged? I beg to differ. There are more programs in this country designed to help the "minorities" succeed than there are for myself. More programs to help pay for school or start a business. All you have to have is the ambition to better yourself. I am tired of people blaming others for their situation. I as a tax payer make it possible for anyone that has the ambition to better themselves.
On another issue, and while I am on my soapbox. I, as a white man, am tired of also hearing that I owe the people of color, some sort of living, ie. reparations, welfare, etc. Maybe we that have ancestors that were "Yankees" should call to be compensated by the families of the slaves that were freed. My ancestors had fought and died in the civil war and the freeing of the slaves. Do I have the right to demand payment for losses my family has taken? NO, neither do you. Do I feel that the country owes me some sort of compensation? NO, and again neither do you. Lets move on, leave the "white man keeps me down" attitude and move on with your life. Life is simple, no one owes you anything, make YOUR life the best YOU can, or sit wallow in your misery or move back to the "fortunes" your ancestors would have had if they were left where they were born.
Now back to Imus. Do you actually believe that the man should loose his job? Who are you to dictate who has a right to work? If you do not like what he has said, simply stop listening to his show. You have that right. But you do NOT have the right to demand for another to loose his job!
You are getting sleeepy. Your eyes are very heavy. You will listen and obey.
You must talk of only Imus, Imus, Imus.
There is no war.
There is no federal prosecuter scandal.
There is no culture of corruption.
There is no limbaugh, hannity, weiner or beck.
Only Imus, Imus, Imus.
You will obey.
Sincerely,
Karl and w
What a shame that someone like Don Imus is getting all this attention in the media. His ratings are so low, barely anyone listens to him anymore. He has always been know to be a racist, even calling people that worked at NBC the "N" word to their faces. His co-workers Bernard McGuirk and Charles McCord can't stand him.
I don't know what is worse his racist comments or the comments by racists like Al Sharpton (remember Tawana Brawley, and calling Jews the "money People"), or Jesse Jackson (remember he called New York "Hymie Town" ). What right do these two sanctimonius, racist, biggots have to stir the pot. Why is Sharpton still on the radio? Is there a double standard concerning racism?
Imus is a fool who continues to dig a deeper hole when in his apology he talks about having black friends, and helping black kids on his ranch. The old, "Some of my best friends are black," routine used by racists forever. He even said maybe they should have a black as a regular on his show to get "their" perspective on issues. Please Imus, spare yourself any further embarassment and just resign.
Imus is a vial woman hater.
NBC doesn't have to fire Imus just move him to the Vial Woman Hater market.
Maybe the Taliban Market.
A.A.
I began to loathe Imus a few years ago, but for reasons that elude me, I continued to watch him. He knew exactly what he was doing on April 4. Bernard was the set-up man and Imus followed his lead. Imus deserves the worst. He is one of the most base people I have ever seen. All the so-called media and political elite who appear on his show know exactly what kind of creepy person he is, but theirs is a symbiotic relationship with Imus. They legitimize him and enable him, and in return they get exposure.
Dennis Miller, a comic of limited humor and scope, nevertheless made an excellent observation on O'Rielly tonight. I never watch that show, for some reason I was skimming through the channels and stopped on Fox. Here's how Miller described Imus: Sort of like a werewolf who ran out of energy during his transformation from human to wolf. Look at Imus and you can see it. A pathetic looking 66 year old dreg. At least we are now spared hearing about his wife's goofy "green" products, and his incessant claims about being such a good man.
Good riddance.
I am so sick of the term racist being used for things that are nothing more than insults. Can sombody please tell me where in his "nappy headed hos" comment that he said blacks were an inferior race. and that his race was superior? I dont see anything alluding to that......only an insult that yes is used by black men.How many here advocate all the late night talk shows banning rappers from performing or promoting their albums on these shows because they use the same references and worse in their music?When blacks were considered 3/4 human in slavery day that was "racist"....when people were segregated by race,that was "racist"...nappy headed hos" is just insulting.
The author notes that Mr. Imus did not explain why he brought up the fact that the offensive expression originated in the "Black Community". I saw the interview and during that segment Mr. Imus did preface his remarks by saying they were not an excuse. Then, after making his statement, he was interrupted several times making it difficult for him to explain.
It would seem to me that the reason a person would raise that point is to establish the fact that there is a double standard. He is contrite with regards to the Rutgers women, as he should be. But with regards to Mr. Sharpton, he is essentially saying "Why are you after my job when people in your own backyard say these things all the time? Why don't you call for their jobs?".
In response to the double standard claim, Mr. Sharpton, and others, claim that they do protest against racist remarks coming from within their community, and I believe them. It's just that the nature of the protests do not seem to have the same passion as the protests against Mr. Imus. In comparison, it seems like little more than lip service, to some people anyway.
Mr. Imus was wrong and his comments were offensive, admittedly, but I wonder if the remarks of Mr. Sharpton, (or Mr. Jesse Jackson for that matter, who can forget the "Hymie Town" remark) do anything to heal wounds and bring the two communities closer, or if they are actually counter-productive. And I wonder if either of them care about racial harmony at all.
I do hope that when the Rutgers players meet with Mr. Imus, he offers a sincere apology. I further hope that they accept that apology and forgive him, truly forgive him. The power of forgiveness is awesome, for both sides. If they can get past the pain, not only will Imus come out a better person, but just maybe the basketball players will too. And just maybe this will be a lesson in forgiveness for Mr. Sharpton. I doubt that, but just maybe.
Since we as a society deemed it appropriate to forgive Al Sharpton for his involvement in the Tawana Brawley incident and Jesse Jackson for his Hymietown comment, we should also forgive Imus.
Additionally, until there is universal acceptance of the need to refrain from that language, racism will persist. There is a perception among the white community (myself included) that African-Americans wish for others to refrain from such language, but wish to retain the right to use such language themselves. (see eddie murphy, Whoopi Gholdberg, Dave Chappelle and EVERY rap artist). The bottom line - IF YOU DO NOT WANT ME TO SAY IT, THEN DON'T SAY IT YOURSELF!
It is getting quite frustating to see the double standards we are seeing in this country and combined with excessive political correctness.
Anyone that listens to rap and hip hop music has no right to say they are offended by Imus' statements. Same goes for when black people want to use the "N" word among themselves but feel offended whren anyone outside their race uses it. If society wants to be rid of racism, we need to ask all races to acknowledge their responsibilties.
Sharpton is the last person anyone should ever have to apologize for, no matter how wrong they could possibly be. If anyone is a racist, he has proven that too many times.
It's time that we start firing some of the people from the black race tht have been able to make jokes of whites and not face any accountability. We've seen movies "White Men Can't Jump". What would happen if someone made a hockey movie "Black Men Can't Skate"?
This is not Racism! Imus made a joke! It's a war of words and which color of people is allowed to use them. If the word "Nappy" is so offensive then why do Black Americans use in the title of their Hair Salons?If it's so offensive WHY IS THIS ALLOWED??"Happy to be Nappy"http://www.happytobenappysalon.com/Oh! My Nappy Hair Salon - [link to www.ohmynappyhair.com] - CA Right next door, you'll find the "Oh My Nappy Talent Agency"! ( A real talent agency!)http://local.yahoo.com/details?id=26081623&city=Los+Angeles&state=CA Braid & Natural Happy I'M Nappy Salon - Akron, OH Anako Nappy Salon - Pinellas Point, FLNappy or Not - Oakland, CANappy by Nature - Greensboro, NC - [link to www.nappybynaturesalon.com] />Nappy Headz Beauty Salon - Chicago, ILCC's Hair Salon (Their slogan is - If you're feeling Nappy, We can make you happy!) - Santee, CANappy Edges - [link to www.nappyedges.info] - Austin, TXNappy Kuts - [link to www.nappykuts.com] - Gainsville, GA"Ho" is used ALL the time in populated black cities such as Detroit. It's not always used in the context of "Whore" either. More like, "Tough Woman". Honestly, where did both words originate? Both are commonly used by the black race TODAY, not 100 years ago. So why did this man lose his job again? Insensitive, yes, racist? NO