Apparently defending Imus, Dietl hammered at Obama's middle name
On the April 12 edition of Fox News' The Big Story with John Gibson, Richard "Bo" Dietl, a private investigator and former New York City Police Department detective, repeatedly referred to Sen. Barack Obama's (D-IL) middle name while discussing controversial comments by Don Imus on the April 4 edition of Imus in the Morning. Referring to Obama's call for Imus to be fired, Dietl, who was a regular guest on Imus' program, stated: "Obama Hussein. Barack Obama -- what's that guy's name? The three names? The full name?" Fox News business correspondent Rebecca Gomez answered, "Oh, I'm not even sure," and Dietl said: "Hussein. Hussein's his middle name."
On April 11, MSNBC announced that it would no long simulcast Imus' show, and on April 12, CBS Radio announced it was dropping the show.
Later in the discussion, syndicated columnist Dick Morris responded to Dietl's smear, saying, "His first name is Senator, his next name is Barack, and his last name is Obama, Bo." Dietl responded by asking Morris, "What's his middle name, though? What's his middle name? What's his middle name?" Morris then told Dietl that he was "attempting the same racist garbage that you do all over the place" and that "[y]ou're injecting that because you know it's prejudicial."
As Media Matters for America noted, The Washington Post in a January 28 editorial described the needless use of Obama's middle name as a "sleazy tactic." The Post noted that Obama does not use his middle name and argued that people "who take pains to insert it when referring to him are trying, none too subtly, to stir up scary images of menacing terrorists and evil dictators." The editorial stated that using Obama's middle name "would be merely juvenile if it weren't so contemptible," adding that those who employ it "embarrass only themselves."
As Media Matters documented, on the February 2 edition of Imus in the Morning, executive producer Bernard McGuirk claimed that Obama has a "Jew-hating name."
From the April 12 edition of Fox News' the Big Story with John Gibson:
DIETL: It just seemed like when my friend there, Obama Hussein. Barack Obama -- what's that guy's name? The three names? The full name?
GOMEZ: Barack Obama's?
DIETL: No, what's his middle name?
GOMEZ: Oh, I'm not even sure.
DIETL: Hussein. Hussein's his middle name. And when he came out -- when he knocked Don Imus, all of a sudden, everybody fell in line. Maybe, just maybe the network says, "Well, if you supported -- you don't go against Don Imus, you're not going to come onto my network."
[...]
MORRIS: And by the way, I ought to indicate that the guy who's done this is Senator Barack Obama. His first name is Senator, his next name is Barack, and his last name is Obama, Bo.
DIETL: What's his middle name, though? What's his middle name? What's his middle name?
[crosstalk]
MORRIS: And -- Hussein, which is --
GIBSON: Bo, come on, look.
DIETL: Well, why don't we just say it as it is.
MORRIS: You're attempting the same racist garbage that you do all over the place.
GIBSON: Dick is making a point, Bo.
DIETL: No, that's not racist. Hey, let me explain something. That's not racist. The truth is the truth, the fact is the fact.
MORRIS: You're injecting that because you know it's prejudicial.
DIETL: Well, it is. Why is that prejudiced?
MORRIS: The fact is --
DIETL: My name is Alfredo. Is that prejudiced?
MORRIS: Excuse me. Excuse me. The fact is that this man stood up when the other presidential candidates, including my guy who I like best, [former New York City Mayor] Rudy Giuliani [R], chickened out and instead called for him to be bounced.
I knew this was what the right wing was gonna do. First, they dispatch ann slanders to dump on Imus, then they unleash pandora's box to test the waters again. Don't be surprised if big business doesn't pull support from a reich wing show...
I am as liberal as they come. What a shame that liberals just don't get it. Firing Imus is wrong. What he said was bad comedy- not "hate speech"--the most overused term by left wingers today. Humorless liberals are as bad as the right.
Neither are as bad as faux liberals who think racist slurs are comedy
SOLON:
I heard a term awhile back to address those who are "faux liberals", and begin by saying, "I'm as Liberal as they come, but [defend the rightwing's actions or positions]."
They're called "CONCERN TROLLS", so very "concerned" how Liberals are perceived (badly), worried about how Democrats should do business (DO NOT seek to hold the GOP accountable), and so on.
Apparently, they believe announcing themselves as "one of US' gives them some extra consideration or credibility, as they go about promoting the rightwing agenda.
Good call catching the imposter/poser. Liberals do not toe the rightwing line; CONCERN TROLLS expose themselves by doing just that.
Tex,
By your post, you show yourself to me to be as prejudiced as anyone. Either that or you somehow think you have telepathic power to discern the particular poster's hidden intent.
Pretty sad. You are dismissing their posts entirely either because of your prejudice and or illusionary powers.
I challenge you and others to drop this silly "troll" nondefense and comment on the ideas posted. Refering to others as trolls is about as intelligent as racial epithets. It is the weakest of arguments.
The defense is that this guy thinks Imus' comments are funny... when, in fact, they are hurtful (i.e. funny only to those NOT the target of the comment... that's bigotry). AA... I have to agree with TEX. If you hang around this site long enough... the compassionate troll rears his/her (likely his) head. But, a troll all the same. The notion of calling this a non-defense... that TEX or SOLON are fabricating or inventing reasons not to respond is playing into the scam of your right-wing brethren. The truth is...if you hang around long enough, you hear and see it all.
JJTHEDJ's comments (if that is his REAL name) are weak. He should add a little more insight into his comments - not the other way around.
By the way, a major 'tell' is when a purported leftie minimizes a claim or says that the liberals are being "too sensitive". THIS is the classic non-defense by right-wingers...
AnotherReality,
Tex,
By your post, you show yourself to me to be as prejudiced as anyone.
(My emphasis.) We'll see whether you actually back up that statement.
Either that or you somehow think you have telepathic power to discern the particular poster's hidden intent.
Please. The faulty mindreading on this board is a bugaboo of the right, not of Tex.
Pretty sad. You are dismissing their posts entirely either because of your prejudice and or illusionary powers.
Wait a minute. You still haven't shown anything that would indicate this supposed "prejudice." Tex hasn't pre-judged anything. He pointed out that jjthedj's writings are that of a Concern Troll, and indeed such is the case. To wit:
(a) claiming he was "as liberal as they come" (Really? Where are the other entries he's written to give any indication of that?)
(b) making sweeping and incorrect generalizations about liberals: "What a shame that liberals just don't get it." Liberals don't write that way anymore than a neocon would claim "What a shame that neocons just don't get it."
(c) excusing irresponsible behavior as being "humor," another province of the right.
Jjthedj stands accused, and rightly so based on the evidence, of being a Concern Troll. If he can provide a defense, let him. You certainly haven't.
I challenge you and others to drop this silly "troll" nondefense and comment on the ideas posted.
Like you have, huh?
Refering to others as trolls is about as intelligent as racial epithets. It is the weakest of arguments.
Spare us your projections about weak arguments. If the Troll title fits, wear it.
Comedian?
When did Imus become a comedian? Is that the kind of humor you like? Now, Howard Stern is a comedian and he thinks Imus is an idiot. Every time one of these idiots do this they say it was a joke. Thats right, it is a joke within their shared inner circle.
I fully agree with you. A civil rights leader said it perfectly the other day on MSNBC, this is censureship. Plain and simple, is it wrong? Absolutely. Should he be punished? Absolutely. But not fired. This country needs an open discussion on prejudice, stereotypes and racism. What Dietl was doing here was racism, but he won't get called on it. What Savage does is racism. These people should not be fired though. I think it was John Stuart Mill who said that we should never censure the opposite view because without that view being fully heard and appreciated we will never be able to fully know that what we believe is the truth.Instead if the opposite view is censured we will being following mere dogma, mindlessly and obediently. We need this talk on racism but it cannot be controlled by people like Rush Limbaugh or Jesse Jackson because if it is then we will not be able to get a grasp on the full problem, merely there perception of the problem. EVERYONE should always be heard, then when they are exposed, like Imus was, the market should deal with them not some sanctimonious a-hole like Jesse Jackson, or someone who is trying to divert the discussion like Bo "Hitler" Dietl, doesn't feel good does it Bo.
I was agreeing with jjthedj535 earlier post. Thanks MMFA for putting me about a mile underneath him.
Yeah, MMFA. Why didn't you move all those earlier posts out of the way?
Yeah, looks like poor Doons hadn't figured out the "Reply to this comment" feature until he replied to his own.
Oh wait, this might just be more of that nonexistent conservative "humor" we've all heard so much about.
Well, I would be interested in seeing who would be the ones to repay the broadcaters and advertizers back when you would force then to air someone who has just tossed away a big piece of the marketplace? After all you are now advocating to force companies to broadcast programs that will not make them money, and could even costs them major bucks for law-suits and potential FCC fines. How would you write the legislation for that?
Read my comment again, You obviously did not make it to the end. I said the market should decide. I have no problem with the market deciding. If MSNBC had said the advertisers are leaving in droves we're pulling the show, then I'm ok with it. Instead they made the "we're making a statement argument". Olbermann went on his show the other day and said that he was one of the people pushing for Imus to be fired. He is supposedly liberal??? He says insulting things to people all the time, should he be fired too??? Or is it ok to do ad hominem attacks on O'REilly because he is an a-hole?? Where is the line drawn??
If people are not watching someone's show then fine cancel it. But at the same time who draws the line on offensive and who doesn't?? Family Guy was cancelled on Fox a few years back because of an episode that had anti-semitism. People got all offended and cancelled it without actually looking at the show. the point was that the moron of the show, Peter Griffin, was anti-semitic and everyone realized it besides him, at the end he even realized it. It could have been an episode of All in the Family, used to prove a point on stereotypes but someone deemed it offensive. Is that right???
the market DID decide. Companies asked to be taken out of rotation so they would not be on his show because they had calls and emails from customers (who ARE the market in case you forgot) asking them questions they did not want to be associated with. You are just mad because it didn't work the way you wanted it to. that is called 'whining'
" ... is it ok to do ad hominem (sic) attacks on O'REilly because he is an a-hole?" - Doons1209297
Absaf*ckinglutely!
Can you think of a better reason?
Morris playing Good Cop is funny.
Was this an SNL skit?
A bit odd, I agree, since Morris is such a political hack. (I'll never forget hearing him on my local station predict the insurgency would last 2 weeks, stated in June after the US ground war had ended. Wow, is he the most wrongest ever?)
actually i heard a better one im in ireland and i read the hearald tribune (european edition of the new york times ) and an american general took credit for america the anti american protests in iraq saying thanks to the US security is so good the can take to the streets and protest unharmed also it was said that this weeks upsurge in violence was desperate terrorists frustrated at the sucess of the crack down im wondering of bahgdad bob didnt defect ?
Har! That's what I thought, Jeter. When Dick Morris is trying to guide Boll Weevil and the discussion in an adult direction, that's a think tank.
I'm sure the tables would have been turned if the senator's name was Barack Clinton Obama.
I figured with Imus gone we would not be subjected to Bo Dietels hate. I guess I am wrong.
He was on Larry King last night acting as sweet as pie, he was so defferential to Serena Williams and Della Reese that were also guests on the show. It was so funny becuase this guy has contributed his share to to the bigot pie through his regular guest spots on the Imus show. If someone wasn't already familiar with Bo they would actually think him reasonable .
And Tommy Wonders Why Obama Won't Debate On Fox News.
This must be another example of the media being too easy on Obama.
So why aren't we hearing about "Bo's" middle name? It starts with "A". Is it Adolf? I bet it is, proof positive that he is a good little nazi. He just uses "Bo" to cover up the truth.
Just Because He's Got A Swastika Tattoo On His A*s Doesn't Mean His Middle Name Is Adolf.
He told us his middle name:
DIETL: My name is Alfredo. Is that prejudiced?
Of course not. It would in no way imply to anybody that Bobo was a dago, guinea, ginzo, guappo, or spaghetti bender. The same way that his insistence that Obama's middle name of "Hussein" be spoken often and loudly during this conversation would imply that Deitl is attempting to relate Obama with the infamous murdering Iraqi dictator.
Good For Dick Morris
Usually he is attacked by us on this site. This time he rose to the occasion.
Just wondering, why do they constantly bring in this "Bo" Dietl?
They need the knuckledragger racist POV?
Please. It's called the GOP base.
my guess is it's because he looks constipated. It helps elevate the anger.
since when did Bo Dietl become a self annointed saint ?
I sincerely hope the NYPD has raised its employment standards since this cretin left.
He was on Imus last week or the week before too, and when a Muslim -sounding caller phoned in, he went off on some lame-ass rant, trying to imitate the voice.
He's a pathetic little turd ... but he'll probably find another outhouse.
I saw that one too, Dave.
Dietl kept claiming that the caller wasn't a citizen, despite a complete lack of evidence of such & the caller's denials. He also continually resorted to using a falsetto trill as a means of mocking the caller's ethnicity. I've rarely seen a clearer example of race baiting.
What bothered me even more about that incident was the fact that NO ONE connected to the show attempted to reign Dietl in, or to call him on his Muslim bashing. There's something SERIOUSLY WRONG with any group of people when they can't even muster up the decency of a lowlife like Dick Morris.
Frankly, Dave, I think that Dietl would have do a lot of soul searching & atonement to slime his way Up to the level of a turd. He's a moron & a racist, plain & simple, & anyone providing him with this sort of media exposure is consciously promoting an agenda of racism & hate.
But then again, it was Faux News.
Why did MSNBC even give this guy his own show 2 years ago? This network is really disgusting. Its track record is hideous. Imus, Dietel, Savage. I know FOX is bad but have they ever reached the low that MSNBC has and does? Tucker Carlson should be next , his hate has no bounds.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7433625/
I’m confused; someone who works for the Faux Noise Channel is actually NOT saying Barack HUSSEIN Obama. Dick Morris may even earn my respect after kind of trying to keep Dietl from his obvious attempt to get the name on the air and then deny that it is somehow racist to just say the name. No, what am I thinking, a memo has come down from on high telling everyone to lay low on the race issue for a day or two until the Imus issue isn’t news anymore. After making such a big deal of HUSSEIN for most of January, and February; Faux has suddenly been transformed. It is truly a miracle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKJixL--ms
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2007/Fox_smears_Sen._Obama_0119.html
http://www.newshounds.us/2007/02/14/in_contrast_to_biden_fox_news_jokes_about_obama_being_smelly.php
You may be right. However, after hearing part of Rush Slimeball's show yesterday, I think he'll crank it up a notch. He assured his listeners that the "thought police" would target him next, but not to worry, because he's been doing this for many years. In other words, he's gotten away with it for so long that he thinks he's untouchable.
I'm a black female that thinks that it is very offensive to be thought of as anything other than a woman of color.That means hearing anyone ,black or white,thinking of me as a whore ,bitch,or any of the popular descriptions rappers use nowaday,should be treated the same way.I have always thought that rap music should be banned.If music has to be rated because of it's content then we all know that it should be banned.While we're at it ,how about cartoon network too.It's not just for kids anymore.Neitjher is southpark....
Banning a whole genre of music do to some negative overtones and holding those who produce the negative overtones accountable are two very sepearte things.
What reasoning would you have for banning Will Smith or The Black Eyed Peas, since you seem to want to ban all rap music?
To Clarify:
I'm all for saying hey Snoop you should really check what you say in your music. It's not right of you to degrade women , your own people or any group for the matter. What you say and how you say it does matter, so tell your story but also make an attempt to be conscious of the things you say. I can demand that people be outraged or offended by your music, but the people who are are justified in feeling that way. If you don't get a free pass and neither should anyone else.
sorry, I was really scared to see my 7 year old niece singing about her 'lovely lady lumps' and 'her hump'. I am on the fence on this now, and am trying to work that out...
So Fergie sings about parts of her body. Her Breasts and Posterior. Haven't Artist been paint nudes for centuries. The MET in NY can have nude women and men on display for thousands of children to walk by on a daily basis, but Fergie can sing about parts of her own body?
Some would say she is objectifying all women as sex objects, women are in fact not simply sex objects and should not be reduce to that one trait, but the sexuality of women isn't something that I think should be banned outright. If we are going to start banning songs for any level of sexual conetent we should get statred on a long list of museums, movies, classic books and caves.
Just my position on this.
um, I said I was on the fence and working it out for ME and MY FAMILY. at no time did I say a thing about preventing anyone from sining anything they want, but I would prefer a way to stop the Black Eyed Peas (just my target today, besides the song is pretty lame IMO) telling a 7 year old girl how to seduce a boy by getting him drunk on her hump. That is MY problem that I am working on.
Now as to Fergilicious, I happen to like that video, in particular the part where they are having a cake-fight. The skimpy uniforms are not bad either. And in fact that song while sexy actually PROMOTES fidelity if you listen to the words, not raw sex like 'My Hump' does. I guess that that is my line ATM, it can change without notice. At least for the kids in my family.
I'm sorry if it came out like I was attacking you, I really wasn't. I do see your point in some respects.
Cont'd
I don't know if yur a man or woman so I will speak in general terms.
I'f you've never worn a pushup bra, tight dress, shown a little cleavage, looked at a dirty picture, been to a nudie bar had an impure sexual thought, stair at someone's a$$, considered who good your own a$$ looked in a pair of jeans, worn something sexy...etc, I can see where your coming from.
I need to learn how to preview.
Following the infantile reasoning of Dietl, I might say that BO means body odor. Does that mean he stinks? I wish they would bring that up to him every day that he opens his filthy mouth in public. He probably also suffers from halitosis from all the crap that comes out of his sewer mouth. Hussein means beautiful. If we looked into Dietl's background, it would lead back to Germany. Can we therefore conclude that his family members were on the watchtowers at Buchenwald and Ausschwitz. How can we be so contemptible as a people? I'll bet Dietl says he is a good Christian. Let him get over his harping on Obama's names. What's in a name? Dietl, by any other name, would still be a rotten bigot and a disgrace to all of us Americans.
"Bo" Dietel is just another right wing blowhard. He used to go on Imus and brag about how tough he is. I once wrote Imus and said Dietel should come to the rough Irish section of the southside of Chicago where I grew up and we'd give him a lesson on being "tough."
Dietel is the last person that should be making a lecture on Obama. He used to say some of the most vile things about Hillary and Bill Clinton when he was on Imus' show. "Bo" Dietel is a punk.
We can spend all day stating the obvious regarding these talking heads on TV...I almost dont care anymore ...What is more discouraging to me are the idiots who buy into it and vote accordingly..Thats a bloody shame....I'll never forgive anyone who voted for Bush in 2004, and absolutely have no respect to the 20-odd percent of America who still supports the regime. If you truly see Obama as a threat solely because of his name, then you shouldn't be allowed to vote.
Toolyb,
Nice rant even if it is fascist. ;-)
off-point, incorrect and desperate reply there AA, trying to toss in the race card like a typical repuke
Retired Det.Bo just lost his main man Imus.Lets see who he sucks up to next? Hey hows about we go to dinner at Rao's.Maybe he can hook up with Kerik. Call the firm Bo Kerik.
Punny! I give it a "10". ;-)
... just a couple of boobs.. ;-)
Imus is a liberal. He said something stupid. He said stupid shyte every day. I don't even think his comment was racist. He called the team nappy headed ho's. He didn't say anything bad about black people, he made a joke about what the team looked like.
Remember! White men can't jump.
Imus is not a liberal. He is a conservative. Just watch his show for 5 minutes and you should know that.
similar to FAUX during the Foley dust-up always putting (D) after his name. Bunch liars every one of them.
WHEN THE RAPCRAP SQUAD IS SILENCED THEN MSNBC AND CBS WILL HAVE JUSTIFICATION FOR SILENCING DON IMUS. THE FCC WILL NOT GET INVOLVED BECAUSE THE LAW WAS NOT BROKEN. THE FCC RECOGNIZES IMUS' REMARK AS A FREEDOM OF SPEECH ISSUE. THE RAPCRAP SQUADS MUSIC FALLS INTO THIS SAME CATEGORY. MAYBE IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS MSNBC AND CBS WILL RELENT AND HAVE A GOOD EXCUSE FOR REHIRING IMUS AFTER THEY REALIZE THAT THE ONLY THING FIRING IMUS ACCOMPLISHED WAS TO MAKE AMERICA INCREASINGLY SICK OF HEARING THE MAGNANIMOUS SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT GROUP AKA THE PITY PARTY USE THE CRYBABY VOICE OF WHITE GUILT. NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS. RACISIM, AS THE BLACK COMMUNITY DEFINES IT, WILL NOT CEASE TO EXIST UNTIL THEY MAKE AN EFFORT TO ABOLISH IT WITHIN THEIR SO CALLED SUBSPECIES OF AMERICAN.
Hi Linda!
If your going to post another one of your crazy rants and your actually interested in having people read it , could you PLEASE stop ABUSING THE ALL CAPS?
Isn't stealing a few moments of my life with your rambling post enough? DO YOU HAVE TO ROB ME OF MY EYE SIGHT AS WELL?
It only suppose to be used when your YELLING or trying to draw attention to one portion of a post... Please STOP ABUSING it by using it for your entire post!
HELLO Linda. I have a few questions for you, I hope you don't mind.
"WHEN THE RAPCRAP SQUAD IS SILENCED THEN MSNBC AND CBS WILL HAVE JUSTIFICATION FOR SILENCING DON IMUS. THE FCC WILL NOT GET INVOLVED BECAUSE THE LAW WAS NOT BROKEN. THE FCC RECOGNIZES IMUS' REMARK AS A FREEDOM OF SPEECH ISSUE. THE RAPCRAP SQUADS MUSIC FALLS INTO THIS SAME CATEGORY."
How has Imus been silneced? Has his tongue, been cut off? Have the courts prevented any other comapnay from hiring him? What does the FCC have to do with any of this? How was Imus' freedom of speech violated? Are you claiming CBS and NBC don't have the right to fire him for saying something stupid?
Thanks again Linda, it is alway so pleasnt to hear from you with your intelligent points of view.
Linda, if you don't like rap music don't buy it. Don't watch MTV and stay away from the hip hop clubs. You are acting like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton got Imus fired. Imus getting fired was strictly a business decision. I'm going to assume for a minute that you are white, judging by your comments. I had this discussion earlier with some of my co workers whom think like you. They fail to understand that if you are at work, and make inflammatory comments, then your employer has every right to get rid of you especially if your comments costs them money. As I told them, you don't think that the comments were that bad because they were not directed at you or anyone you know for that fact. Comparing Imus to rap music is stupid because Rap music doesn't speak directly at anyone. Imus' statements were targeting a specific group of people. Also he has made racially disparaging statements before this. Do I feel sorry for Imus? Yes. Because he doen't know any better. It's one thing to tell a racial joke and it's funny like with a punch line. Where is the funny part of nappy headed hoes?
Mack,
I agree with you that firing Imus is a business decision and MSNBC and CBS have every right to do so. But many feel that while Imus got his punishment and has been vilified and beaten down and called on the carpet for his remarks, on the other hand when these phrases and words are used as "art" in certain genres of music, by certain "artists", they are treated far differently. They are at times excused and given a pass between it's within their own culture, never mind it is still incredibly sexist and disrespecting to women - of all races.
Tommy I agree with you. I am a fan of hip hop music and in fact i am listening to it right now. I don't agree with everything that is said in it but I also won't buy it if I don't like it. I actually think that rap musicians are held accountable for the stuff that they say. Not just rap but it spreads through all genres of music. Look at the Dixie Chicks. Just because they are not fired doesn't mean that they were are given a pass. Hell, snoop dog was denied entry into the U.K. a couple of weeks ago because they didn't like his image. He's never been in trouble over there. Rap music suffers enough without it being injected in a situation that it has nothing to do with.
macklin953241: i don't like rap. i would prefer tony bennet, frank sinatra, ray charles who i saw live at a dinner club in 1973, nat king cole, bing crosby, as well as other real musicans from a more civil time. i compare imus' words to the same words used in rap because THEY ARE THE SAME WORDS. are these rapcrap purveyors directing these words at any particular person or people. no. they are directing these words to EVERYBODY. as far as imus making a racially disparaging remark which i don't believe he did, perception is reality. again we all do it either in public or private. even though most will not admit it. is imus MORE guilty or equally guilty? racism is a generic term used to describe the dislike for an aspect of a person, not an entire people, that cannot or will not change. does this aspect define this person in their entirety. no. the word racism is way over used in todays society. if you really want to erradicate discrimination, which is the real culprit, give your children a choice when they ask questions. challenge their ability to think and reason. it might surprise many people what the results of independent thinking does. teach them to NOT LAUGH AT JOKES because every joke is disparaging and it usually is pointed at a person or a people.
Linda...have we not made any progress. We have already established that you don't like rap music. I don't like polka, so you know what, I don't listen to it. What does rap music have to do with what Imus said? If you don't think that Imus made racially disparaging comments before on his show, do a search on this site to view them. I'll also dare you to find a rap song anywhere that has "nappy headed hoes" in its lyrics. I have been a fan of rap for a very long time, and have yet to once here that phrase come out of any rappers mouth. I wouldn't go so far as say that I've heard every rap song ever, but from my experience, that phrase isn't anything that I've ever heard. You are wrong when you say that we all make racially insensitive remarks. I'm sure we all offend people by things that we say but you have to make a concious effort to make offend someones race. Also your definition of racism is flawed. For your future reference, here is the real definition.
rac·ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. Racism and descrimination are different. I think that once people start to talk about race in this country then the subject will be less taboo and people will open themselves up to new experiences.macklin963241: i have not defined rasism. i defined race. according to the merriam webster online edition it states, breed, family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock, a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics. i play the thread out based on the word race and i determined that i fit the definition of racist. i say this because i don't ascribe to the same beliefs, interests, or habits of all other races. this is not to say that i agree any difference produces inherent superiority of a particular human breed. this would be impossible to trust and take us back to the neanderthal age. we human beings are the highest of all Gods creations.
give it up. Calling young women Nappy headed hos is definitly a racist slur, there is really no way around it.
solon: i agree. nappy headed and ho are cultural slang slurs and should be considered discriminatory if anyone uses them. using these words together in phrase form or separately, even when the word(s) is not directed at any particular gender or breed is offensive. it is your right to refer to these words as racist but that does not mean you are correct in your definition.
As it is your right to believe the sky is chartruese. wont make it true. It is obviously racist and no reasonable argument can be made that it isnt. The nappy headed part is a referrel to a racial characteristic. You know it, I know it, the most committed racist appolgists know it. It was by definition a racist slur.
solon you are not interested in learning anybody else's view about this complex matter. it is clear that you are a racist as i have said before. at least i am willing to entertain the idea that i am a racist. maybe i'm not. i do not scream anger in my posts but you do. no more meaningful conversation with people like you because the issue will never be resolved. ignorance lives by forced feeding.
how has imus been silenced? hs his tongue been cout off? my response is: imus has been silenced from the msnbc and cbs airwaves primarilly because of the backlash from the advertisers.
what does the fcc have to do with any of this? my response is: it was made public yesterday that the fcc will not impose a fine based upon freedom of speech. i cannot tell you whether it was the wp, reuters, or the nyt but it was published nationally.
how was imus' freedom of speech violated? my response: his freedom of speech was not violated. i have not said it was. i merely pointed out that the rapcrap squad should be silenced with the same measure as imus. otherwise, in my opinion, there was no justification, for the reason they gave, to fire him.
are you claiming cbs and nbc don't have the right to fire him for saying something stupid? my response: in a previous post i admitted the comment to be stupid however, not racist by definition. i also said msnbc and cbs have the right to fire imus for jaywalking or for inadvertantly entering the womens restroom if he is in an "at will" state which allows an employer to fire without a reason. ultimately, they have the right to fire him for any "reason" they conclude to be justified. it wasn't justified based on his intent, it was justified based on the money advertisers threatened to withhold. follow the money.
First I actually want to say thank you for taking the time to respond and actually explain why you've come to your conclusions. Now....
"imus has been silenced from the msnbc and cbs airwaves primarilly because of the backlash from the advertisers."
In a free market how is this in anyway wrong?
"It was made public yesterday that the fcc will not impose a fine based upon freedom of speech."
The FCC has a documented history of fining Howard Stern for his freedom of speech. But basically they are saying they have nothing to do wit this issue, because there was no legal violation made from their perspective. I don't think any has been saying that there was any legal violation made, but I am not positive about this.
"his freedom of speech was not violated. i have not said it was. i merely pointed out that the rapcrap squad should be silenced with the same measure as imus. otherwise, in my opinion, there was no justification, for the reason they gave, to fire him."
If record labels and and producers decide to silence "rapcrap" (BTW some but not all rap is crap), then that is their right just like MSNBC had the decision to fire Imus or let him stay.
"my response: in a previous post i admitted the comment to be stupid however, not racist by definition. i also said msnbc and cbs have the right to fire imus for jaywalking or for inadvertantly entering the womens restroom if he is in an "at will" state which allows an employer to fire without a reason. ultimately, they have the right to fire him for any "reason" they conclude to be justified. it wasn't justified based on his intent, it was justified based on the money advertisers threatened to withhold. follow the money."
So.....what is your beef? That msnbc and cbs they made a sound business decision?
monkinj80: my beef is not that they made a sound business decision. my beef is that the firing was not predicated on the belief that this was a discriminatory remark even though many think it was. they fired him because of pc advertising dollars. yes they did make a sound BUSINESS decision. does everyone want to swallow this truth. no. they choose to believe it was because sharpton and jackson got up to the podium to rant and rave the same message they have been preaching for sooo many years. these two, sharpton and jackson, continue to discredit valid situations of discrimination and it will not stop until the market for their unfounded beliefs dry up.
monkinj80: i misspoke. my beef is predicated on the lie that msnbc and cbs sold to the general public by implying that the firing was made because of a discriminatory comment. in fact they fired him because the advertising money was withdrawn and thats a no no in the industry.
My middle name is John
I guess that makes me a Baptist.
mhk: i use all one case, as i have told you before, because i have only one hand. yes i can use the shift but for punctuation only. it's a matter of personal convenience. frankly, i find the upper case easier to read because it's larger on this site but ill use lower if it pleases you.
Linda - no idea that you only had one hand.
I've seen you write posts in both upper and lower. Regardless, just turn off your cap lock and there isn't any issue.
i can type with one hand all in lower using using the 'hunt and peck' methoid as i'm doing right now and it's not in ALL CAPS
mhk: if you define my post as a rant then what do you call the other posts? it has been established that imus' comment was stupid but not racist by definition. if he meant it to be discriminating then he deserved to be fired. i, and most of america, do not believe this to be the case. look at what the fcc has to say about it. do you really think sharpton and jackson represent the civil rights movement? i don't. they represent the people who self impose a sense of entitlement based on what occured nearly two hundred years ago and this will continue to fall on deaf ears. we must be aware of history but there is a difference between remembering history and reliving history. sharpton and jackson continue to preach a self fulfilling prophecy. the nazi's did this and they had a huge group of people who bought into their beliefs. this did not make them right and that was only seventy plus years ago but they keep beating their drums. civil rights belong to all americans and they are not reserved for any one community.
O.k Linda, I think we agree on two things. One, that Imus made a stupid comment. Two, civil rights belong to all people. But I think that you are wayy off base with your critism of Sharpton and Jackson. What self fuffilling prophecy are you referring to? You must think that racism does not exist in this country anymore. And waht event happened nearly two hundred years ago are you referring to? I like what you said about "We must be aware of our history". Thats true. However, it seems that you were absent on the day they discussed Jim Crow Laws in American Histoy class. Less than fifty years ago blacks and other minorities weren't allowed to vote, eat in restaurants, get into country clubs, go to the movies ect... Not saying Don Imus is racist because I do not believe that he is. I think he is like a lot of people in this country who live in their own little world and only associate with people who look like him. The only time he really gets to find out what blacks or other people are like is from what he/she sees on television. So stereotypical thoughts are formed based on the actions of a few. It is said that if we don't know our history, then we are bound to repeat it. If we don't take this time to learn from this Imus situation, then it will keep happening.
macklin953241: my criticism of sharpton and jackson is simply put, my opinion. i too am entitled to respect regardless of whether you agree with my opinions or not. the self fulfilling prophecy i spoke of is: when a person with power continues to impose on others the belief that they are percieved to be less than others and downtrodden and that they will continue to be the downtrodden until everybody recognizes that they are downtrodden. the people with a broad voice in america continue to reinforce this belief. why not, otherwise they wouldn't have a following. look at the televangelist market. that's another self fulfilling prophecy.
regarding your comment on less than fifty years ago, the rights that those americans were denied was not in my realm nor control. i grew up in the ohio valley not by choice but by birth. i did not see this kind of discrimination therefore i did not participate. what we see we do. what we do we become.
yes, we do live in our own world hedged about with the security of kindred. this is the way we all grew up and who would want it to be anything else?
as far as television is concerned, there is not a program available that is not based on the almighty dollar. even the news is financed by advertisers money. so much for honesty on television. sensationalism is what sells, look at the many weeks we all had to tolerate the anna nicole smith show. i didn't know who she was until that was broadcast.
stereotypical thoughts and beliefs are just that. if anyone does not use the skill of discernment in their decisions about what to believe then so be it. as the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
the main thing i have learned from this imus issue is that an employer will do ANYTHING for revenue. they did not fire imus because of his comment. frankly, they are probably making jokes, another form of denegration, at the lunch table about how ignorant the general public is.
I like you Linda, and I am very sorry if I offended your position. I too get carried away when I type sometimes. I think that you agree with me more than you think. I have to disagree again on your opinion of Jackson and sharpton. If you have ever heard them speak, they both want equlity among all people. What they are trying to do is wake people up. Jackson always says "we don't want a hand out, we want a hand up". Meaning, after a selected group of people were kicked and beaten down for a number of years, he wants to uplift them by helping them uplift themselves. He only wants to level the playing field so all people can enjoy the same priveliges equally. That is not self fullilling prophecy. I encourage you to actually listen to some of their speeches.
I am too from Ohio. Cleveland to be specific. We are one of the most segregated cities in the U.S. Growing up in the Ohio Valley I would imagine that there were not too many minorities down there. When I said that you live in your own world, I meant that you don't venture out and associate with people of other races. I don't do it purposely but since I live in a big city, I happen to meet people of all races all of the time. I like being around diverse groups of people because you learn a lot about different customs and beliefs.
My comment about t.v was only to say that most of the images about blacks on tv. are negative and you will never get to know black people by what you see on the screen. Thats all. You hit the nail on the head though about the stereotypes. People who believe them don't have the skill to determine that they are wrong. I hear it all of the time here at work and it makes me sick to know that people that I know think like that. I think that we use the term racist too loosley. It doen't have the meaning that it once had and the people that are truely racist will forever get away with their ideas because people who accuse them will have lost all credibility because they use that term for everyone.
Linda's comment was the most thought out comment I have seen her make yet (although too don't completely agree with her).
But..........
(and I hesitate to type this be because she is making an attempt to be "nice" in this thread)
You are talking to
LINDA "I admit I'm a Racist and so are you and everyone else/Pity Party" FRANKE
Sorry Linda it needed to be said.
why do you hesitate to retype the same thing i admitted in previous posts? i stand by what i have said. i believe we are all racists at one point in time or another. this does not define or encompas every belief a human being has? no. but there is no degree of being a racist. perhaps the black community would like to have the only complaint against racism but thats not the case and frankly they shouldn't. my heritage is of german jew and i do know something about racism. do i continue to blame all unrelated people for the horrific acts before, during and after ww2? no. there are degrees in the american legal system, degrees of murder, rape, theft, etc. and this is a way to further define poor decisions that people make so that the punishment is not too severe or based on a single opinion.
Maybe we are operating on two seperate definitions of what a racist is.
I may not agree with you on many things and I might not understand how quick you are to assume someone is a member of this "pity Party" that you are so fond of, but if you you continue express yourself with as much insight as your last few post, you may still win me over.
I formed a long list of opinions about you based on your previous posts ( which actually sound like a completely different person if you ask me, maybe it was the caps lock.), I think maybe in the futre we can meet somewhere in the middle. You don't get a pass from me on what you'v said in other threads, but I do look forward to what you have to say in the future if you do continue to post here. If you can remain civil, I will do my best act in kind.
-Tony
"do you really think sharpton and jackson represent the civil rights movement?"No, not at all. It's stupid and I blame much of this on the MSM. Is there one or two people that speak for the entire white community? The black community is diverse and has people with points of view. Why does the media immediate go to folks like Sharpton and Jackson when issues like this come up? Are they the only leaders in the black community? i don't. they represent the people who self impose a sense of entitlement based on what occurred nearly two hundred years ago and this will continue to fall on deaf ears. Question Linda - when were the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments passed? When was the Civil Rights act passed? Stop acting like race stopped being an issue 200 hundred years ago as it is insulating for the people that continue to deal with racism and is incredibly naive on your part. Human nature and society takes a LONG time to change and we have had serious wide speard race problems within my partents generation. Wounds like this do not heal overnight Linda especially since we keep picking at the wound. "we must be aware of history but there is a difference between remembering history and reliving history."I'm gay and the issues that homosexuals are dealing with currently have some striking similarities with the black and women's civil rights movement. Have we learned out lesson? Ask Matthew Shepard. "civil rights belong to all americans and they are not reserved for any one community."Does it? Great I guess I will let the IRS know that I'm filing my taxes with my partner this year. Thanks Linda!
each one of us, all inclusive, speak for our own personal beliefs. that does not mean those beliefs are invalid. why else would there be give and take in a conversation? by sharing ones opinion does not invalidate either, even when disagreement arises. i have explained why i refer to myself as racist based on the definition of race. i don't believe there is a human alive that does not prefer to be amongst others of the same family, breed, belief, religion, characteristics, interests, etc. does this make me a bad person? i don't think so. do i discriminate against individuals? yes especially when they reveal themselves to be hateful against anyone with the temerity to disagree with their opinion. does this mean that i discriminate against all members of his/her race? no and that would severly limit me as a reasonable person. i wouldn't agree with anybody if that were the case.
as far as you being gay? i guess now you won't be inviting me to the pity party, right? as far as the irs is concerned, this too will change but maybe not in your lifetime. a local probate court would grant a name change and it's not so difficult to do. there are many names used by both gender. then let the irs spend their time to investigate whether your life partner is valid or not. they never ask for a marriage license. if they do find out, your partner can say they had botched up gender change surgery. just becuse someone is an outlaw does not mean they are criminal.
as far as the matthew shepard issue goes. he was an innocent young boy that was horribly murderd and left tied up like a piece of garbage. this is a sad testament to how some homophobics act out their displeasure for another who is simply different.
No that has NOT been established the fact you keep repeating it doesnt establish anything except your desire to escape reality. There is no reasonable argument that calling a group of women nappy headed ho's was not a racist slur.
solon: again, nappy headed and ho are cultural slang slurs. they are discriminatory, offensive and should not be used by ANYONE. no one can unring a bell but they do have a choice whether to condone or agree with the sound or not. if you want to define a user of these words as being racist, your definition applied, then you may want to begin with where these words orginated or not. i am not in denial about the impropriety of the issue but i certainly don't buy the published reasons why imus was fired. do you?
What you seem to be intentionally missing is that by calling them NAPPY headed hos, by referencing what is obviously a racial characteristic it was NOT just cultural but also racial. It was a slur modified by a racial identifier which makes it a RACIAL slur. There isnt any way around this. It isnt a matter of how I SEE it or how anyone sees it. THAT IS HOW IT OBVIOUSLY IS.
solon you are full of mumbo jumbo but you are unwilling to entertain the real meaning of the words. define nappy, ho, racist, racial slur. you cannot do it because they are culture slang. i am so glad i have a dictionary otherwise i might start using yiddish and only the german jew from old times would understand it. go figure.