Radio hosts* Quinn & Rose made baseless claim that Dem leaders behind Sebelius links between war, Kansas Guard shortages
On the May 10 broadcast of Sean Hannity's nationally syndicated radio show, radio hosts Jim Quinn and Rose Tennent repeated baseless allegations that they had reportedly made on their own radio show* that Democratic National Committee (DNC) chairman Howard Dean was behind Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius' assertion that equipment shortages due to the war in Iraq had impaired the Kansas National Guard's ability to respond quickly after a tornado leveled the town of Greensburg, Kansas. Quinn told host Sean Hannity that, according to his source, Sebelius called Sen. Sam Brownback (R-KS) after she had publicly made her complaint about the Guard shortages "to apologize for the statement she had made and she explained that she did not believe those statements really to be true -- that they actually had more than enough National Guardsmen showing up." Sebelius, Quinn continued, then said that " 'Howard Dean called me around 5 o'clock' -- we [Quinn and, presumably, Tennent] assume that's 5 o'clock in the morning -- 'and told me not to ask the White House for any help or make any statements until I heard back. Dick' -- and we don't know who that is; my source assumes it's [Assistant Senate Majority Leader] Dick Durbin [D-IL], but I can't, I don't know -- 'Dick called me an hour or two later, and that's when he told me that we needed to use this and talk about the Guard all being at war.' "
Quinn said that, according to his source, Sebelius had justified her actions as a political necessity. "You know how political everything is right now," Sebelius supposedly told Brownback, "and we're not allowed to let an opportunity like this pass." Tennent later continued on this theme, saying that Sebelius "then went on to explain and she said that the Speaker [Nancy Pelosi (D-CA)] and Harry -- we're assuming [Senate Majority Leader] Harry Reid [D-NV] -- are feeling the heat from both sides over the war and that they need to get the press on something else. She said she didn't think it was right to use this but she didn't have much choice, she said, considering the climate she was in." Tennent then claimed that Sebelius "promised" Brownback that she would "try to move away from the comment when she and Brownback were to meet up later ... but she had to do so without disappointing Dean and Pelosi, and those were her words, supposedly."
Quinn later told Hannity, that "[t]hey're all going to deny it, because Brownback doesn't want to screw up his relationship with the governor. ... [W]e're prepared for that. Our source absolutely stands by her or his story." As support for his assertion, Quinn said that Sebelius, appearing on television with Brownback to look over the damage in Greensburg, "look[ed] like a woman who's really embarrassed about being there. ... This is a woman whose body language is just screaming out that she just feels awful about something."
The DNC has issued a cease-and-desist letter to XM Radio stating that the allegations are "false and defamatory [and] libelous and slanderous" and demanding that Quinn and Tennent broadcast "an express and specific retraction of these statements" on their show.
Moreover, Quinn's claim that Dean and other national Democratic leaders instigated Sebelius' statements about Guard resources being depleted because of the war in Iraq is undermined by Sebelius' numerous past statements of concern about the impact on the Kansas Guard of the war in Iraq. As Media Matters for America has documented, Sebelius has -- on several occasions well before the Greensburg tornado -- highlighted the need for additional National Guard funding and equipment because of deployments for the Iraq war:
- On January 21, 2006, The Kansas City Star reported: "In a Dec. 30 [2005] letter to [then-] Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Sebelius urged the return of Kansas National Guard equipment shipped to Iraq and Afghanistan. 'The Guard was critical to responding to recent blizzards and floods in Kansas, yet its ability to respond to similar situations is being diminished by a lack of equipment,' she wrote. She said Rumsfeld had not responded."
- On June 29, 2006, The Topeka Capital-Journal reported that Sebelius provided Army Secretary Francis J. Harvey with a list of equipment the state of Kansas lost to the Iraq war, noting, "Sebelius and other governors have said the loss of equipment leaves states vulnerable in emergencies or natural disasters."
- On September 5, 2006, the AP reported that "Kansas' congressional delegation, Sebelius and governors from around the country have been lobbying the Pentagon for increased funding to replace National Guard equipment that has been left in Iraq or damaged beyond repair after repeated use in war."
- On February 27, 2007, Sebelius' office issued a press release stating: "The reliance on National Guard troops and equipment in Iraq is leaving states vulnerable. ... Sebelius expressed strong concern that sending the National Guard on repeated tours through Iraq compromises states' ability to respond to natural disasters, terrorist acts, and other threats to public safety."
Moreover, a May 9 New York Times article on Sebelius' comments reported that Guard officials in Kansas and elsewhere echoed Sebelius' concerns about the depletion of Guard resources:
In Kansas, the National Guard is operating with 40 percent to 50 percent of its vehicles and heavy machinery, local Guard officials said. Ordinarily, the Guard would have about 660 Humvees and more than 30 large trucks to traverse difficult terrain and transport heavy equipment. When the tornado struck, the Guard had about 350 Humvees and 15 large trucks, said Maj. Gen. Tod Bunting, the state's adjutant general. The Guard would also usually have 170 medium-scale tactical vehicles used to transport people and supplies -- but now it has fewer than 30, he said. On the other hand, General Bunting said, it had more cargo trucks than it needed.
The issue is not confined to Kansas.
In Ohio, the National Guard is short of night vision goggles and M-4 rifles, said a Guard spokesman, Dr. Mark Wayda. "If we had a tornado hit a small town, we would be fine," Dr. Wayda said. "If we had a much larger event, that would become a problem."
[...]
Two recent reports have raised questions about Guard preparedness. An independent military assessment council, the Commission on the National Guard and Reserves, released a report in March that stated: "In particular, the equipment readiness of the Army National Guard is unacceptable and has reduced the capability of the United States to respond to current and additional major contingencies, foreign and domestic."
Another report, released in January by the Government Accountability Office, concluded that the ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan have "significantly decreased" the amount of equipment available for National Guard units not deployed overseas, while the same units face an increasing number of threats at home.
From the May 10 broadcast of ABC Radio Networks' The Sean Hannity Show:
HANNITY: Well, why don't you tell us, because Jim, I understand you guys were able to break this story this morning about a connection that, in fact, that the governor had gotten a call -- the governor of Kansas had gotten a call from Howard Dean -- why don't you pick it up from there?
QUINN: Yeah, OK, Rose, why don't you start out?
ROSE TENNENT (Quinn & Rose co-host): Well, it seems that on Sunday -- it was a few hours after Kansas governor made her remarks about Bush being negligent and she underplayed the National Guard response blaming it on Bush and saying that, you know, of course, he had so many people in Iraq that they were unable to respond to her effectively. She then -- you know, and the thing is too, Sean, she had - she has a decent relationship with Brownback and the Kansas Republicans because she's mostly acted as a moderate rather than a liberal. So anyway, she was calling, apparently, Brownback to apologize to the senator for making the political statements the she had made, and she explained that she did not believe those statements really to be true, but that they actually had -- actually more than enough National Guardsmen showing up. She admitted that herself to Brownback.
HANNITY: Well, did you guys speak to Brownback on this, or is this just a source you guys have?
TENNENT: Can't say. Can't say.
QUINN: Now here -- yeah, here's the deal. It's a source that I have used before. This source has been very reliable. This source told me why his source is unassailable, and I can't tell you why, because if I do I'll blow him in. I'll -- what I'll do is blow his cover if I tell you why, but I can tell you -- I can tell you privately off the air, but I can't tell you on the air.
HANNITY: Now, look, I'm -- nobody should have to reveal sources. But let me go through this, Jim, if I can a little bit more slowly here so people fully comprehend this. First of all, this is a disaster. I mean, we literally have people -- their lives have been uprooted, everything they have worked for in their lives have been destroyed, we have a country like in the case of Katrina -- we're trying to rally around these folks, and get them the food and supplies and medicine and the help and the assistance and the rescue that's necessary for all these people, and the governor comes out of nowhere and makes sort of like a statement like the mayor of New Orleans, like [Mayor Ray] Nagin when he said, "Yeah, This city will be a chocolate city." Remember?
QUINN: Yeah, I remember that.
HANNITY: And she basically politicizes the tornado and ties it into Iraq. But you're saying that this was connected or orchestrated from the top from Howard Dean.
QUINN: Yeah. Here's how it went down, OK? Governor Sebelius, as you know, placed this call to apologize to Sam Brownback because later on in the day, she had to meet him, they were going to surveil the -- or take a look at all the destruction. So here's how it went down, and my source has quotes around these statements. Now, I wasn't there, so I can't vouch for the total accuracy of this, but here -- they are in quotes. Governor Sebelius explained to Mr. Brownback: "Sam, you know how political everything is right now, and we're not allowed to let an opportunity like this pass," unquote. Let that sink in for a second.
[...]
QUINN: Let me finish with the quotes here so everything stays in context, OK?
HANNITY: Yeah.
QUINN: Governor Sebelius explained, "Sam, you know how political everything is right now, and we're not allowed to let an opportunity like this pass," unquote. She continued, quote: "I made sure not to blame you or Pat" -- that would be Senator Roberts -- "or anybody outside the White House. With his" -- Bush's -- "numbers, you can't really blame me for using that," unquote. Then, Governor Sebelius, according to our source, explained the path to her comments. After Brownback told her that he was very disappointed in her, she pleaded, quote, "You know me, Sam. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't have to," unquote. She said, "Howard Dean called me around 5 o'clock" -- we assume that's 5 o'clock in the morning - "and told me not to ask the White House for any help or make any statements until I heard back. Dick" -- and we don't know who that is; my source assumes it's Dick Durbin, but I can't, I don't know -- "Dick called me an hour or two later, and that's when he told me that we needed to use this and talk about the Guard all being at war," unquote.
TENNENT: Well, you know, then she -- she then went on to explain that -- her reasoning behind all of this, and she said that the speaker and Harry -- and we're assuming Harry Reid -- are feeling the heat from both sides over the war and that they need to get the press on something else. She said she didn't think it was right to use this, but she didn't have much choice, she said, considering the climate that she was in. Then apparently, she apologized a few more times and promised that she'd try to move away from the comment when she and Brownback were to meet up later and tour the damage, but she had to do so without disappointing Dean and Pelosi, and those were her words, supposedly.
HANNITY: Well, I've -- I've gotta tell you, if we can confirm and corroborate this, this woman needs to be removed from office --
TENNENT: Absolutely.
HANNITY: -- and we need to demand that Howard Dean be removed from the DNC.
[...]
QUINN: They're all going to deny it, because Brownback doesn't want to screw up his relationship with the governor. So be -- we're prepared for that. Our source absolutely stands by her or his story, and -- but I can tell you -- what is amazing about this is that when -- the last thing that Rose said about her apologizing a few more times and promising that she would move away from the comment later on when they met, I saw a videotape of her, and I believe this was where she and Brownback were looking at the wreckage, and I remember thinking to myself, this looks like a woman who's really embarrassed about being there. Her shoulders are hunched over, she doesn't look at the camera, she doesn't look at the -- she looks at the floor. This is a woman whose body language is just screaming out that she just feels awful about something.
Here is what i observed on the television, when coverage of Bush's visit to the stricken areas in Kansas. Usually this commander-in-chief likes to have all the military uniformed personnell in the background, perhaps even a helicopter or two. This time there were very few. This one looked like a different " smoke and mirrors ".
Who said that 10,000 died there? I think it was the next President of the United states Obama. I would not for a second put it past the DNC was behind the statement.
You keep trying to make a big deal out of Obama's goof up. OBVIOUSLY he wasn't trying to convince anyone 10k people died there. It was, and is still, all over the news. I guess that won't stop you from trying to derail any slightly related converations. Anything to smear a Dem I guess. Are you afraid to discuss the issue at hand?
So Sen. Brownback is in on this little cover up so he can stay on the Governors good side?
Governor Sebulius must be the scariest woman in the world. Dean has a big set to order her around like that.
Right. A Democratic governer is going to confide to a far-right wingnut senator that the DNC is telling her what to say and do. OKaayyyy. BTW, kudos to the DNC for fighting back with a C and D to stop this smear. It's about time for the targets of these little smears to begin availing themselves of the legal process in order to put a stop to their bull$&it little games.
she has a decent relationship with Brownback and the Kansas Republicans because she's mostly acted as a moderate rather than a liberal.
If that is true, it would not be surprising at all.
It isn't true. Sebilius tries to come across as a moderate, but in reality she's solidly liberal. She pro choice, pro gun control, pushed for higher taxes and more government spending, and pushed for expanded gambling, among other things. She's been solidly liberal on pretty much every single issue, and worst of all she fooled the people of Kansas into thinking that she was a moderate. It amazes me that the same people who voted for Bush in 2004 turned around and voted for the liberal Democrat Sebilius in 2006.
Correction: Sebelius
Far right senator? I don't think so. Brownback represents the traditional American. He's been a great Senator who has protected family values and the sanctity of human life. We Kansans are lucky to have such a great Senator. He definetely represents the views of the people of Kansas much better than the solidly liberal Sebelius.
...then how did she get elected???
Because she campaigned as a moderate and fooled moderate Republicans into voting for her. The Wichita Eagle and most other newspapers are very sympathetic to her as well, and they did their best to make her look like a moderate and make her Republican challengers look like far right wingers. In actuality, it was a conservative Republican running against a liberal Democrat.
This explanation will soon explain how Hillary Clinton was elected President. It's simply a blueprint that has worked over and over again. And if it works...........
You have your own biased political rating curve that seems to be based on whether the person in question is to the left of Jesse Helms. Brownback has a lifetime 95% rating from the American Conservative Union. He is pretty far right.
If you're going to go by the ACU ratings, Hillary Clinton has a 9% lifetime rating from the ACU, and yet you call her a moderate. It seems that she's pretty far to the left . You seem to think that anybody to the right of Fidel Castro is moderate or conservative.
Rino, you really need to take a civics class. There is NO ONE to the right of Castro. I love the way half baked conservatives claim that all of our enemies are Liberals. You probably think that that the word 'Liberal' is equivolent to Communism.
You could go so far as to say that Brownback is "always right".
You are actually going to buy into this nonsense? What planet do you live on, especially when these 2 radio personalities use another fabrication to explain why non of this can be confirmed.
Just prove this happened!!!!
I think Mike was being sarcastic. Read it again, I think you'll see.
Sorry but I don't see the sarcasm.
"So Sen. Brownback is in on this little cover up so he can stay on the Governors good side?"
That's a question. It's clearly not accepting the assertion made by these two radio hosts.
"Governor Sebulius must be the scariest woman in the world. Dean has a big set to order her around like that."
The scariest woman in the world? He's saying the idea that Brownback is not talking about this huge revelation because he's scared of upsetting the Governor is ludicrous. I think that's the obvious interpretation.
Nice explanation. Can you do anything with AUTOPSYCHIC?
Thank you, couldn't have said it better myself.
An Al Franken moment when you have to explain sarcasm.
Let's see, they've gone public with an accusation that the governor is a deliberate liar and the head of the Democratic pAarty told her to stage the lie--on the basis of a single anonymous source.
If they're sincere about breaking this story, they're abysmally stupid. You don't make a real accusation like that without sworn depositions.
If, on the other hand, they're just throwing up some FUD that Hannity can repeat over and over, and townhall.com can mention for the next 15 years as if it were proven, to turn another wretched embarrassment for the republicans into another defiant bukkakke of self-righteousness--well, then they've done their job.
Perhaps the media should report some real news. Like this, for example:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/05/rudy_snubs_farm.php
BTW, I must apologize for the fact that the article itself goes off topic. I just couldn't resist!
That's a great story. As if his stance on abortion wasn't going to alienate enough in the Bible belt, now he's trying to knock the farm states off his list. I figure all he has to do is say something stupid in Florida and Ohio and he will have guaranteed his own failure.
Yeah, it's just a shame it's all Soros' fault he's doing this to himself!
I had no idea jim quinn had a show on xm. how shameful. this guy is on locally in pittsburgh and has been for years. he was a HUGE Y2K doomsdayer in 98-99, telling people to buy land in the woods for the inevitable end of civilization that he basically guarenteed was coming. and, after that, people STILL listen to this guy. why? he was so sure that Y2K was going to hit and clinton was going to use it to implement martial law. oh, wait, but i'm SURE he's right about whatever conspiracy theory he's harping on now.
I, too, had no idea he had an XM show and didn't know it was our Quinn saying this at first... I left the 'burgh in 2000 and totally remember him saying the doomsday stuff (although, in fairness, many others people were- but he was definitely the crier on the street corner).
What happens if this story turns out to be completely accurate?
What would the democrat party do if this turns out to be the truth?
I mean, really, all political leanings aside, what if this really happened?
Frankly, it's disturbing. What's more disturbing to me is that the letter from the DNC's attorneys says nothing other than "It's false. Stop talking about it, and immediately issue a retraction." That's it.
No expression of concern over the possible validity of the story. No "Hey, call us, because we know it's not true and we want to get to the bottom of this thing and expose the wrong-doers, whoever they may be."
Nothing. Just "Shut up, now!"
Bottom line. Left or right, neo-con or neo-lib, if this is what really happened, God help us all.
Jason,
I am with you "god help us all"... I really don't care about the partisanship on this one, but if this has any shred of truth to it, WOW, can't wait for election time.....
I was reading earlier today where the local residents were even surprised by the Gov's statement and that it was totally political... Also mentioning that they were more than happy with the level of rescue operations.. Think about it... it is town of 1500 people.. not a New Orleans.. FWIW, Hannity's reference to Nagins Chocolate City was a little strange...
It also seems strange that Govs ranting come and went pretty quick on the media front.. ...
The DNC sent cease and desist letters to these media organizations, telling them they are reporting a completely false and made up story.
If they truly did this, I don't think they'd be setting up a legal battle over it. It wouldn't be very hard for a court to prove the DNC or Howard Dean did indeed call Sebelius.
Also, Governors have been reporting these shortages for some time now. Sebelius has asked the White House to address these shortages LONG before this recent tornado devastation.
This is another attempt to blame Democrats for our country not being prepared for disasters at the national level. It's an attempt to paint legitimate concerns about a lack of equipment on partisan politics, even while the Pentagon is admitting the equipment shortages.
You think this WOULD be scary if TRUE...how about a war in iraq based on lies. WHAT IF THAT WERE TRUE,then you would really be scared. Let's assume both to be true...Howard Dean is a liar and George Bush is a liar...answer me this, is there a difference? Maybe so. Dean trying to gain political capital and Pres. Bush being responsible for many deaths. We could go on a blame Clinton for getting a BJ...now that was serious.
You use the word IF...
Grandpap Jake used to say "IF cows could fly. you would need bigger windshields wipers." So much for IF.
I am not going to argue your thoughts on the Iraq war, I don't like it much either, but I do believe the reasons for the start of it are not that cut and dry....
If this is an example of what our leaders (non-partisan thinking) have come to for a few votes, maybe the media looking for flysheets in the pepper will start to keep everyone honest.. or at least better at being deceitful..
I used the word IF because nobody knows yet. Perhaps you could try to contain your hatred of all things Bush for a few damn days and see how this one plays out. Or, then again, perhaps you can't.
Sometimes I forget who I'm dealing with.
Ah, the Bush Hate Card is played early. I thought we were discussing IF's. If I hate Bush using your logic, then you must hate Dean. I have no way of proving that, as you apparently have proof that I hate Bush. Here we go again, sources....
Yes, I do HATE Howard Dean. Alot. Not afraid to admit it.
But because these allegations are, at this point, merely allegations, I'm not prepared to hand Howard Dean a guilty verdict. He deserves the benefit of the doubt. Hence, the question, "What if...".
Yes, I absolutely HATE Howard Dean. THAT has NO bearing on this story.
This is the early stage in the perpetual mind f**k that Republicans, like the ones who control Hannity, initiate to keep the GOP faithful ever vigilant. Brock oughta know he used to lay down with these dogs.
It starts with fabrication and inuendo spoken in hush-hush tones, conspiritorial whispers in sterile laboratories. It grows louder and more outrageous, with ever widening circles of conspirators. It's picked up and broadcast in small, local media chains and gains momentum. It gets pushed higher up the media chain and reverberates even louder with greater indignation. Logic and internal consistency fall away, sacrificed for the sake of layering multiple false narratives like sedimantary disconformities. It is recycled and recycled with ever greater volume and disdain until the repitition that THOSE DAMN DEMOCRATS ARE (insert favorite buzz phrase, epithet and or accused person/persons) is the only idea that sticks to the gray matter.
Six months later, however thoroughly the matter has been debunked, some hate addled, loyal GOP minion on some website, juiced on the latest smear cycle, cites the Kansas conspiracy to bolster his indignation du jour as the gospel truth. On and on it goes.
You just described the life cycle of the "Bush lied" fantasy. Maybe we're not so different after all. Kumbaya, moonbat.
I used the word IF because nobody knows ... see how this one plays out
Lots of people have been abducted by aliens. Really, that's what people say. Yeah, I know it's just stories and there's no proof or anything but what IF it's true?
I mean it! What IF it's true? Because nobody knows! We'll just have to wait to see how it plays out!
But OMG, what IF it's true? I shudder to think....
I can't help but laugh at Jason and Crescent's handwringing. How phony can you get? Even if every word of this is true, it pales in comparison to what the Bushies have done in the past two weeks, let alone six years. GMAFB
Like the handwringing over Bush's and our troops failures.. Yep, I should be ashamed..
Try to make a non-partisan comment on here (I did type that a few times, didn't I), well I guess I should have known better.. I didn't think I came off as wishing it that it was true..
I'm sorry, our troops' failures? Who said that?
doesn't GB control them??.. and to wish failure for GB is not to wish failure for those he controls??..
And who is wishing for failure? We don't even know what success is supposed to look like here, so how are they supposed to succeed?
Just because Bush recklessly put our soldiers in a horrible position where they have little chance of success under any circumstances, that doesn't mean anyone is blaming the troops or hoping they fail.
Spin it however you like... You can't tell me there isn't a degree of satisfaction from the DNC when the news reports no progress... Party first, isn't that how it is?
That's because many of us were saying before all this began that it was a ridiculous war. It made no damn sense, under any pretext or any long-term strategy. Nobody is happy that Bush did this. We're not happy he did this to our reputation, our standing, our credibility, our military preparedness, and our dead and wounded soldiers.
If I may speak for a group, we don't want it to fail, it was a plan that was almost bound to fail. The political benefit to Dems is NOT worth the hit that our country or its troops have taken. It is NOT party first, no matter what the consequences. The results of this war lie with those who started it, not the troops. It is not their failure. It's the Bush administration that has been using them as pawns, and that's what so many people across the country are getting increasingly upset over.
You would be well served to think before you post such contemptible drivel.
And by the way, that is NOT spin. It's never been spin. It's always been the dismissal of war critics as unpatriotic or having a "pre-9/11 mentality" or other such garbage that's the spin. I and countless other people have been arguing against this (and FOR the troops) since the beginning in good faith, not out of some partisan interest.
Aside from your usual slam on my intelligence because I have a different view, I do resepect and in some regards side with your opinion.. I still wonder what the DNC reaction would have been.. the roles would only be reversed, I am sure..
However, some of the troops over there actually do believe in what they are doing.. to that it is very disrespectful..
I know that no issue in this country will have a 100 percent consensus, but the tact our politicians take on this one is very frustrating...
I'm not slamming your intelligence because you're saying something contrary. I find the "troops failing" line to be unacceptable. It's drivel because it's drivel, and I think I explained why adequately.
I appreciate that you agree in part with what I'm saying. If that's the case, I hope you understand the vast majority of those on the left are not saying that our troops are failing, or hoping that they do so for the sake of the party.
Lets imagine for just a minute that everything suddenly turns around in Iraq. The Sunni and Shia hold a grand conference and agree to disagree but jointly state that the fratracidal violence must stop. In short order, they turn on the foreign jehadis and kill or expel all they can find. As attacks on US forces begin to dwindle, rebuilding begins in earnest. The elected government begins to take hold and Iraq begins a clear path toward stability.
Leaving aside for a moment just how insanely improbable this scenario is, now imagine the Democratic response. Some of the insane wingnuts on this site will contend that there would be gloom all around. I would be thrilled! There would be dancing in the streets and the country would be as united in joy as it was united in sadness and anger on 9/11. Democrats would be unhappy that victorious Rethugs would take the credit and be much harder to defeat in 08 but any who didn't share in the general happiness would be completely ostracised.
There is a pretense by rethugs that patriotism is their exclusive domain. That is a damnedable lie!
It is the children of the poor that fight the wars while the rich are busy elsewhere. Bush knows this war is lost but could care less how many poor people die or get maimed so he can save face. He knows if he can hold on until 08, blame for the loss can be shifted to Democrats and over time every bad thing that happens in the Middle East henceforth can then be laid at their feet. Bad things will happen when we leave, whether now or ten years from now. Things will also get worse the longer we stay of course, but the claim will be that the Dems undermined the effort. Far better from the Republican point of view to string this out until a Dem takes over - then the consequences of withdrawal can be laid at his/her feet. Who cares if a little more "cannon fodder" is expended - as long as blame can be properly shifted.
Perhaps you could try to contain your hatred of all things Bush for a few damn days and see how this one plays out.
And perhaps YOU could try to contain your defence of all things Right-wing or Republican.....
Fat chance.
Anything built on negative principles will ultimately collapse under it's own negative weight. That IS what we are now seeing come to pass. baby bush and his henchmen have failed in their attempt to create a Theocracy. baby bush saw an opportunity to prove to his dad he was a real man and finish the job his father abandoned in Iraq at the urging of cheney, rummy and wolfowitz. Powell represented sanity in the administration at that time. We all know what transpired with repect to Powell. The republicans have become masters at covincing enough people sunshine is in reality moonlight. sadam was the goal from the get go. Be dammed with anyother eventualities. After all, with a 70% approval rating at the time and a vast majority of that %'age believing bush was the second comming, any outcome could effectively be delt with with some propaganda, which worked for quite awhile. baby bush cannot admit he was wrong and is just waiting to pass his holy war to the Dems. The Dems will be put in a box by the neocons, so no matter what they do, it will be wrong and their fault. The neocons have plenty of talking heads to feed this propaganda to the masses:hannity, b.o'reilly, dickie morris, hannretty, coulter,and tons of other b.s. "salespeople". The blind amonst us will never see and will just have to die off making way for a generation of open minded citizens that for the most part, will be able to differentiate between theological b.s and real answers for the progress of mankind. sean hannity was hoping for a judgeship on the new inquisition court and he is just ranting incoherant, nonsensical vituperative diatribes because he is mad that this is not going to happen. Trying to make sense out of what he and his butt buddies are saying is like charting your life path using tea leaves or phrenology. s.h. should be the posterchild for retroactive birth control. He is a load his daddy should have shot out the window.
What if I paid your mother money to have sex with me last night?
What if?
Dude, that is just wrong... Better close up those porno sites before the kids come in...
Truth, Not sure to whom this was directed or if it was directed at anyone?
I think he took your "IF" statement to a new level..
Well if he did pay her, I want my cut.
Prince... is that Quinn from 'Dan and Quinn in the morning' from some years back?
Well, the member Jason focused on the hypothetical event of "what if" these anonymous accusastions against Dean et al. were true? Then he goes on to explain how grave and damaging this would be to the Democrats if it were true.
So I ask myself, what if?
And If her statements about the lack of equipment were true then WHAT? At least she will be the source of that statement. Not the man behind the curtain. The difference about this source is that Quinn portrays himself as a commentator, not a journalist. So why is there this veil of secrecy concerning the source? There is no ethical bonds that commentators must adhere to. Protecting your source has taken on a new meaning. Come on Quinn, IF it is true, you got a good one. Do your duty as a GREAT AMERICAN? I will even call for the head of Howard Dean.
If her statements are true about lack of equipment, then why hasn't she begged and pleaded for help from Missouri, Iowa, Nebraska, or the Fed's for that matter. The people that are actually FROM Greenville say they're being taken care of just fine and they've even said that they may have too many relief crews in town. BTW, Kansas has 10% of it's Guard deployed. Hardly a shortage, wouldn't you say?
The governer SAID that the number of personnel is not the problem, it is the lack of TRUCKS, BULLDOZER, AND OTHER HEAVY EQUIPMENT that is the problem. When KS NG troops went to Iraq, they left all their equipment in theater, and it has never been replaced. Of course, Tony Snowjob immediately tried to blame "state and local" for not asking for equipment other than FM radios, then a few hours later had to admit that he lied.
What do those people in Greenville know anyway.. Just beacuse they are living it, they have know idea what is best for them and what is the "appropriate" level of rescue.. The dems will show them the light like always..
You all are making me slip into the partisan bickering again..
Sorry, typing to fast and not proof-reading...
"Greensburg" not "Greensville"..
"no" not "know"..
What an ignorant thing to say....
The people in the damaged community do not know exactly what help is needed and have no idea how to get that help to them.
Leaders in government and emergency management have that responsibility and that knowledge, not the people directly affected by it. They know about their own losses, but they don't know the best way to recover from that! How do you get a bulldozer there? They don't know. How to you arrange to get the utilities managed properly? They don't know. How do you dispose of all the waste? They don't know. How do you provide them temporary housing and schooling for the kids and medical care and personal supplies and food? They don't know.
Only the people in charge know how to solve emergency situations like this for large groups of people like this when whole communities are devastated. That's why the Federal Government, George Bush's admin, had to take the lion's share of the responsibilities for Katrina, and they didn't step up to the plate soon enough with enough help. They were the only group that could do that - it was too big for even the state government to handle all of it!
Well, then that would make you a necrophiliac, sicko.
well kw3l-dud3 if this is true why wont the source who "absolutely" stads behind the story come forward and provide tapes of the conversations or phone records that show the time-line as being non-fictional?
What is this "Democrat party?"
One could argue that the use of such terms is indexical of a certain stance. That stance clearly positions one as more willing to believe any assertions against the "Democrat party."
Basically, anyone who uses the term "Democrat party" has proved that they are a parrot for the right, a mindless dittohead, and an utter fool.
Actually, when the current democrat party starts to act like a Democratic Party, then maybe they can then be referred to as such.
I'm not sure what the "Democrat" party would do. Do you have any info about this party? Where is their headquarters? Who is the leader of the Party?
I've been hearing a lot about it but can't find a listing, website or platform for the "Democrat Party".
I would suggest from this point on that if a poster references a non existent party like the "Democrat" Party, their comments should be noted but that we don't enter into an endless back and forth with them. They're not open to debate. They're parrots, repeating the same mindless wing-nut talking points.
I'll start using the term "Democratic Party" the day that you use the term "President George Bush". Fair?
Jason,
Nice use of the term "democrat party". You've just confirmed yet again what your source for "news" and misinformation is. keep drinking the Kool Aid. You won't feel a thing
Believe me, I would love to use the term "Democratic Party" because one of my favorite anagrams for it is "Democracy Rat Pit".
But here's the deal........
A party made up of Republicans=Republican Party.
A party made up of Democrats=Democrat Party.
Democrat=noun, Democratic=adjective.
You know this.
If you think this is true, than the best I can say about you is you are extremely gullible. Even if I didn't live in Kansas and go to the same Church and work directly accross the street from the governor I would never believe any politician of her stature to be that politically stupid. She has been saying these same things for a couple of years now, she even said them to Bush when he was here in Topeka for a visit. Why would she apologize for a statement that is no different than the ones she has been making since long before the tornado?
The odds of Quinn & Rose being right about anything are pretty slim. They are after all the ones who said that Klebold and Harris were working for gun control groups to make guns look bad.
It's DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Get it right. God help us all because Republicans are too stupid and lazy to say it properly.
"...the letter from the DNC's attorneys says nothing other than "It's false. Stop talking about it, and immediately issue a retraction." That's it. [...] No expression of concern over the possible validity of the story."
What exactly is a letter of this nature supposed to say, in your opinion? If you personally had been slandered, how would the letter from your lawyers differ in general from this one?These two , Quinn--jerk and Rose--not too bad are Pittsburgh based, have a small, yokel following and are full of B.S. This Quinn fellow won't debate anyone and always makes outrageous statements such as, Quinns' Rule "whatever a Liberal says, they mean the opposite" and this quote can be verified daily on his little show. Therefore, according to this morons drivel, the Governor must be saying that there is plenty of equipment available.
The listenership of these wannabees is paltry and the listeners who rally around this former DJ are none too swift about anything real...only Republican talking points...they want to kill everyone, they want to attack everyone, especially liberals but don't have the balls to come out of their trailer closets and go off to war. This Quinn character lost his job as a DJ in part of a sexual harassment suit for his MANLY ( but he is really a sissy) attacks on a co-worker. And for Hannity to give these two a soapbox shows how desperate these little people are to get some support. I will admit that Rose has done marvelous work in help the flood victims of Katrina and other worthwhile causes. She really seems to be more liberal but has her beliefs which are always consistent. The Flighty Quinn is just a jerk with a microphone and four (4) hours of radio time in the morning. And his flagship station also cares Limbaugh,Beck, Savage, Hannity and the Pittsburgh Pirates...go figure.(Actually, they are ALL losers) But I will bet if your chack the number/ratings, they fall well short of their competitors, especially Limbaugh who goes against Thom Hartmann.
The Lineup: Quinn 6-10..1st hr repeated 10-12 Beck 12:00-3:00 Uncle Rushbo 3:00-6:00 SlapHappy Hannity 6-8 Sports 8-? The Verminizer...Savage after Savage who the hell knows..or cares.
To end this rant, Quinn wants to be somebody and if you were him, you would want to someone else also. He is a coward behind a microphone pandering to the lowest of the low. He will not debate anyone in a reasonable manner..but around here in Pittsburgh, everyone knows he is a joke and if the station needed a farm report show, it would draw more interesting listeners.
Quinny, please talk about this on your show..of course, all 30 people will hear you.
Thank you, Prince, for your objective and informed view of the two radio personalities in question. I'm sorry you don't get an acceptable level of satisfaction by listening to their show. So you don't like the show. I get that.
I did notice that you cut yourself off before you actually said something about the subject of the article. I'm sure you'll catch up on those pesky little details later.
But, according to O'Reilly, you need not argue the actual point, only show one thing to the audience about a person to invalidate their point (of course, shouting over them helps too.) How is this possible? Witness the Wesley Clark "interview", where Bill-O need only say:
"It's who you associate with that people are gonna judge you by."
Sadly, I saw this exchange. So the princeofwheels post has Con-talking-point logic? Clark outclassed BO on every turn, but sadly the time spent on the problem was wasted with BO's hatred of a donor.
What's that?? Only Con's can use Con logic? Libs will continue to use real logic to argue their points, thank you very much.
"your objective and informed view"
And what about your objective and informed view.
In your first post, you very conveniently don't mention the small, factual, slightly important and relevant detail that this radio program exists to bash liberals. Rather than critiquing their, upfront and obviously highly partisan motives, you question and critique the form of the cease-and-desist request letter.
As if to say, you're guilty and until proven innocent.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the same tack I've seen you take with other issues here, such as the Soros->Media Matters allegations.
Thanks for that summary. I can sometimes "get" 104.7, and I listen once in a while to know more about the repub talking points. i tend to grind my teeth a lot, and frequently turn the radio off because I'm frightened someone might be listening and BELIEVE these clowns.
I'm glad you pointed out that Rose can be a good person. Maybe she needs the job. But Quinn would make a scary neighbor. Once I get to more than a few lies (yes, outright lies, not opinion) then I have to turn it off. My dentist wants me to stop listening to right-wing radio.
Are we getting to the point where every conversation must be videotaped? I would love it if Sebelius taped the entire thing (did she learn from Nagin that the Repubs would make stuff up?) and will allow the <20%-ers to listen to reality for once.
Equipment is scarce. Traggedy strikes. Equipment needed, not available. Repubs attack. Any questions?
I want to talk about the source of this allegation but...OH, there is none..just a rag-tag talk show host spewing what..Truths? Where is the source?
He said/he said/they said /she said... And I wasn't talking about the Iraq War...just what IF? Please point me in the right direction about the truthfulness in this allegation or should we believe all the this "source" says is true?
It's the madrassa story revisited, basically. No sources or evidence.
As a footnote, one must read Mr. Quinns' last paragraph to get an understanding of his ability. First, he gives himself an out "They're all going to deny it".."so be prepared". Guess this makes it even more truthful since everyone will deny it. Reading further down "I believe she and Brownbeck were looking at the wreckage".....then his keen sense of depicting human emotion from a video tape comes in..."This is a woman whose body language is just screaming out that she just feels awful about something." Just an outsiders guess, maybe it was the destruction and death in one of her cities. As they say around here, this guy is a jagoff.
POW,
Heres something to get your mind off of your disgust of the Pitt, PA folks...
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/local_story_129130446.html
Damn, I just realized I didn't check this resident victims credentials before offering the link,,, But everything he has is gone, so maybe I can't..
Maybe you should read a subject from 5/10 on MMFA in which this Governor did ask for more help..although first disputed by Tony Snow but later he sort of changed his tune. By the way, the Gov applauded the swift work of this Administration in helping. Now, back to the subject matter, where's the source?
P.S. The shame of Mr. Hannity to bring on anyone without any oral, visible proof of their accusations is by Conservative Radio standards, just daily business.
C'mon now, you and Jason have gone from IF, to listen to this poor guy who lost everything with a Hate Bush card thrown in...by the way, he has a right be pissed at the Governor for saying what she did...but is she lying or being told to lie..No proof of that. Nite Nite from the Burgh..got to get up early to get my yelping points for the day. But Rose is good peeps.
Is this really a legitimate news source! They found some unfortunate victim of tornado and prop him up as though he was majority voice for truth, justice and the american way. Look on the lower left of the page. feature segments include sexiest stars and playboy calender models (not that I mind) but the credibility factor kind of goes down the crapper.
a CBS affiliate I guess seemed legitimate.. (didn't notice the ads you spoke of, now I gotta go back and look)
Actually I stumbled across the linked story, before I saw it on MMFA.. I just thought it was interesting that someone who was probably at the one of the lowest points in their life would even care about political anything.. I know I sure the hell wouldn't be... unless my Govt cheese was late in coming..
Doesn't pass the laugh test
Lessee - A Democratic Governor tells one of the most conservative senators (who still supports Bush and just happens to be running for Prez) that she is lying her a** off about the President, shilling for Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and the DNC - then asks him not to tell. Uh huh!
On a related subject, I have it from a reliable source that all three of those talk show hosts are involved in kiddie porn and have weekly orgies with pre-teens. Oops, wait a minute! I had beans for dinner and my source is about to speak up again! The wife tells me I have to cut this short, cause I'd better take this one outside!
My nominee for post of the week. I don't care who you are, that's funny.
a man who can't hold his beans is not funny..
I thought XM radio is a bought service? Mmfa is now reporting misinformation on pay radio/tv? I fully agree with everything every pay radio/tv personality says. Obviously, if they are good enough to be on pay radio/tv they are immensly smrt and I need to believe whatever they say. However, the need for some to attempt to restrict freedom of speech is going too far. I think some need to go back and re-read the constitution. It is apparent that some have NO idea what that document is about!
You were unaware that MMFA reports on pay radio/TV? What do you think cable news is?
Actually the Freedom of Speech provisions of the First Amendment protect you from the government restrciting your speech not from a outside group (such as MMFA or whoever) reporting on your speech. It also doesn't give you the right to say whatever you want whenever you want. Your boss can fire you for saying something that you believe should be protected under Freedom of Speech but the government can't keep you from saying whatever you want....look a little closer at the First Amendment and any number of court cases involving it.
We 'Salute" the Colonel.
Isn't it laughable that all this concern for freedom of speech form conservatives comes now that the Dems are intent on restoring the fairness doctrine? Where were they when liberals were being pushed out of radio?
Actually, I like to hear well reasoned, fact based conservative argument. William Buckley used to host and participate in debates on his PBS show. Having the courage of his convictions and confidence in his abilities, he got only the best of opponents. I remember great ones J K Galbraith participated in.
Freedom of speech does not include the right to libel and lie unopposed on my airwaves.
Is it media? I think it is. Does MMFA report on conservative media? I think they do. Do you think you are ever going to tell MMFA what they can and what they cant cover? Its not going to happen. If you dont like the way MMFA runs its site feel free to start your own site, run it however you want and let us in on where to find it so we can drop by and tell you how to run YOUR site.
Psychic, read my mind (a short read)...
They are on local radio which is picked-up by XM...therefore, they are on the FREE airwaves...Those that pay XM get this also.
Restrict freedom of speech, not this time...freedom to lie, with that, I agree, they have that right.
Give AUTOPSYCHOTIC a break. He's still smarting from that beating he took a couple of days ago over the latest manufactured Pelosi scandal.
WHAT are you talking about? Pelosi proves every day what a crook she is and you give her an 'okie-dokie' for her efforts. True liberalism at work. Thanks for being there when righties need someone to show why they hate liberalism so much.
More delusion ranting...hands going numb...arghhh
WHAT are you talking about? Conservatives prove every day how they fall for the "some say" line, and you give them an 'okie-dokie' for their efforts. True conservatism at work. Thanks for being there when lefties need someone to show why they hate conservatism so much.
Sebelius lied? Can anyone with a modicum of logic believe this story? On record, she asked for help. On record, she asked several times. From "some guy I can't name" comes the lie. She would admit she was being manipulated to a hard-core Repub? Just as likely, Bush would call Pelosi and admit he lied US into the war from day-one... in a non-scripted moment, this may happen from the Chimp.
It all comes down to what you can bend your mind to believe. I'll stick to real sources (documented requests, newspaper reporting from Jan, etc.) and you can have ability to believe the "some say" crowd.
Can you imagine the arguments that would ensue if the Libs took the same tact? I heard that [...]. Oh yeah, some guy said [...]. Well I heard an actual quote in MMFA... STOP RIGHT THERE! Us Cons know that anything recorded from MMFA is a ploy by Soros. Lets get back to heresay.
Righty's like you dont need reasons to hate liberals. Your autopsychotic, delusional fantasies give you plenty of reason.
I don't mean to nitpick but didn't you just make a Kerry-esqe statement?
;-)
yes he made a true statement. unlike any of the'commander guy's'...
With all the already proven corruption of the rethugs, wouldn't it be wonderful for the wingnuts to be able to say "See, it isn't only us!" That would be sooo soothing for them as scandal after scandal continues to unfold. Problem is, virtually the entire party they love is being proven to be a criminal conspiracy.
For further documentation that Gov. Sebelius has long been concerned about the lack of adequate National Guard materials and personnel due to their being in Iraq, see the article, "Kansas legislators weigh in," Topeka Capital-Journal, January 24, 2006, p. 6A: "Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, a Democrat, rode with the president in a motorcade that took dignitaries from Topeka to Manhattan for the Landon Lecture. Sebelius used the one-hour drive to urge Bush to help fix problems with the revamped Medicaid program and to address the Kansas National Guard's shortage of military equipment."
In that same issue, in an article on p. 5A, "Governor airs concerns. Sebelius: State Medicare woes surprised Bush," states: "Meanwhile, the governor said she got bad news when the president didn't dismiss rumors that his administration was planning a reduction of National Guard troop strength in its next budget, which Bush will roll out later this month in his State of the Union address."
"Officials from the National Governors Association had heard the administration was considering a realignment. So Sebelius asked about it."
"'He did seem to acknowledge that yes, that fear was well-founded. It wasn't an idle rumor,'" Sebelius said.
"According to the governor, Bush indicated the realignment proposal would come from the Department of Defense to ensure fewer redundancies between National Guard and regular military units."
This is classic Flying Monkey Liar projection. Issuing shocking statements or sensational stories to distract from scandal is a classic Republican tactic, and here they are hamhandedly trying to accuse the Democrats of doing that very thing. This is amateur stuff, though....Karl Rove must be under a lot of stress lately.
JSCOTT, I did not intend to diminish AUTO. I just wanted to give him the correct info. Wasn't here concerning the Pelosi thing..where did it go?? Back into the toilet it came from?? I would guess that.
Tuesday, May 8, AP reports republican claim... Check it out, for a good laugh.
I checked it out, that was some great stuff. Auto obviously doesn't understand the concept of "shame".
I haven't heard these particular talk show hosts, but it sounds like they follow the pattern that has contaminated this radio format nationwide. We have two talk radio stations...all conservative, of course....and they simply parrot the same bilge that Rush Limbaugh puked up the day before.
I love listening to Hannity for the sheer entertainment value, but yesterdays segment with these 2 liars was frightening. Hannity, who of al people wants to verify the the story, suggested they get verifcation from Brownback. Quinn immediatley said Brownback would deny everything for the sake of his own political ambitions - HOW VERY CONVENIENT! and how is this guy Quinn an exxpert on body language? He thinks she's lying and embarrased by her body language he states: "This is a woman whose body language is just screaming out that she just feels awful about something" Yes she feels awfull aboutsomething. a tornadoe wiped out an entire community in the state she was elected to serve and protect. I hope Hannity apologizes for being led into this lie, and retracks his overly sincere affirmation on how honest these 2 are.
You have a better chance of seeing bush (lowercase intentional) fall down and beg forgiveness for lying us into an unnecessary war and occupation.
Jim Quinn is an outrageous liar who will say and do anything for ratings. He is a former wanna-be Howard Stern who is now a wanna-be Rush Limbaugh. If in any doubt about the accuracy of his "sources", see this story http://www.post-gazette.com/headlines/20010918rumorslocalp3.asp where, within a week of 9/11, Jim Quinn quoted one of his "sources" as saying that local Middle Eastern doctors at a particular hospital were celebrating the attacks. The FBI denounced this as "absolutely and totally false".
Talk about yelling fire in a crowded theater. As far as I'm concerned he should have been yanked off the air then. He would be a joke if some people didn't actually continue to believe him. But then again, some people continue to believe the president who has also lied to them before.
Another 'yinzer!! Go Pitt!! and Central!!
Only right wing nuts see a Democratic conspiracy behind every one of Bush's failures. This accusation, that Dean called her up and told her to pitch a fit is ridiculous. Bush makes himself look bad. There is no need to make stuff up and do back room deals. He's a failure, his policies are failures and there is no need to make something up to illustrate that.
Oh, but don't you see, Sebelius and Dean were setting this up for years. He told her to make the requests, and she did, both of them knowing Bush would never do anything about it. It was a plot! It's Kansas, Dean knew there would be a big tornado there at some point, and then the trap would be sprung.
Wow! I never thought of it that way but it makes perfect sense! That Dean is always thinking ahead!
Dean knew there would be a big tornado there at some point
Aha! I think you've illuminated why the DNC has been focussing on the West. They knew all of that political hot-air would build up and make for some big Spring storms. They didn't just wait for a tornado, they created it!
No doubt they also did this with help from NOAA. Someone should look into possible financial links between Soros and meteorologists at NOAA.
Just like the NOAA helped the repubs with that pesky little hurricane down south.. What, maybe we should look at these guys closer.. What better way to bring a country to its knees..
I find the accusation that Dean tried to influence this outcome (dan)rather preposterous.
The unnamed source's claim should have been verified by a second party before it was aired.
Kudos to MMFA. At last I found one thread that lives up to the billing of the website!
So right after this disaster occured, Sen. Brownback and Sen. Roberts traveled to Greensburg to visit the town (what's left of it).
Sen. Brownback was on the campaign trail and Sen. Roberts was on Capitol Hill. They BOTH reached the area BEFORE Gov. Sebelius (D) did. Oh, BTW, she was in Topeka when it happened. I guess the 247 mile journey was too much of a logistical nightmare for her.
By the time she arrived, all of the residents had been treated and sheltered by relief crews. The national guard had arrived, commenced search and rescue efforts, declared martial law, established a curfew, and provided an "unbelievable" amount of aid and support (according to the residents of Greensburg, but who are they to determine what "adequate" aid and support is. Their credibility is obviously questionable.) See this story from the Hutchison News: http://www.hutchnews.com/news/regional/stories/guardresponse051107.shtml
As to the lack of equipment.......
From the Armed Forces Press Service:
"Currently, the Kansas National Guard has 88 percent of its forces available, 60 percent of its Army Guard dual-use equipment on hand, and more than 85 percent of its Air Guard equipment on hand, said Randal Noller, public affairs officer for the National Guard Bureau. Under the Emergency Management Assistance Compact, which is a national partnership agreement that allows state-to-state assistance during governor or federally declared emergencies, Kansas has more than 400,000 Guardsmen available to it, he pointed out. However, Kansas has not yet requested assistance from other states."
So, the Guard says they have adequate resources, the residents say they have MORE THAN ENOUGH resources, but the Governor is howling about the war in Iraq.
This is political opportunism at it's best, and whether she was instructed to make the statements or not (they are just allegations at this point, I get it), Gov. Sebelius should be ashamed to look in the mirror today.
I agree. The outrage should be in the fact that the devastation in Greensburg has been turned into a political argument over who said what. Politics should have never been brought up at all.
My god the lengths some will go to justify a conspiracy. Tell me what the Governor gained by criticizing the president? What's the motivation for lying as you suggest she did? There is none! Give it a rest. Take some of the energy you use in "uncovering" Democrats playing politics and direct it towards the Republican party. It's amazing. Even if it were true, which is really incredible to fathom something so stupid, but even if it were, in the grand scheme of things this would pale in comparison to the numerous attempts by Republicans to smear Democrats.
"What's the motivation for lying as you suggest she did?"
When did I suggest that? Oh, I didn't? Thank you.
What she DID do is mosey on over to Greensburg (probably had to look it up on a map first) when she d_mn well felt like it. Everything needed was already in place, and the disaster was being dealt with just fine. So she decides to use the unfortunate fate of this little town to stuff her mug in front of the entire nation and start b__ching about Iraq. Sickening any way you look at it. Like those footstools that show up at military funerals to remind us that "God hates f_gs". Same thing. Opportunism, pure and simple.
Tell me what the Governor gained by criticizing the president?
How about the opportunity to remind the general public how the democrats feel about the war in Iraq. Forget the conspiracy theory. Is it difficult to admit that she would use a simple political tactic that politicians think the majority of the public is too ignorant to recognize? The Kansas City Star reported that she made the comment. No matter what came before or after the comment, the fact that she used a political jab at all showed lack of couth and no empathy for the victims.
What better time to make the point that numerous and repeated requests for equipment have been ignored? The purpose of the National Guard is to provide assistence in just such instances. Since it has been cannibalized nationwide for this lost cause, we are all at risk.
We have seen just how much "Homeland Security" we actually have now due to incompetence, cronyism and the willingness of this corrupt administration to sweep the real needs of this country under the rug in order to pretend that they are not destroying us from within.
Doughpro#######, I cannot believe your opening line."How about the opportunity to remind the general public how the democrats feel about the war in Iraq". Check this out, an anonymous source who I cannot named actually mentioned that Iraq war thing to me earlier in the day. Isn't it amazing how it (Iraq) has been kept quiet until this Governor brought it to the attention of America by critizing the President. She actually praised him...just quit reading the Right-wing trash. And I thought that just me and my source knew about this war. Damn, nobody can keep secret..Your statement goes beyond partisan nonsense (both sides). From now on, I must tell people about this secret little war in Iran, sorry, Iraq.
As stated last night and early this morning, what source? And shame on Hannity. Mr. L, yes, the same Quinn who was sued for sexual harassment. And Go North.
Those of you who are faulting Gov. Sebelius for arriving in Greensburg to view the tornado devastation a few hours after Senators Brownback and Roberts did are apparently unaware that much of the state of Kansas was underwater on May 5 and 6, including the capital city of Topeka, which had as much as three feet of water in the streets last weekend. The storms made a railroad bridge in northeast Kansas collapse, causing a train derailment. Much of the city of Ogden (next to Fort Riley army base) was flooded, as were many other cities in Kansas. Gov. Sebelius had more than one disaster to deal with last weekend.
It's not surprising that Senator Brownback was so speedy in getting there--he was in Kansas already for a fundraising event. He goes wherever he can get his mug on camera, except the U. S. Senate, where he has missed more votes this year than anyone except Sen. Johnson (recovering from brain surgery) and Senator McCain, who rarely spends time in Washington anymore, either. Senator Roberts had no other commitments last weekend, so it is not surprising that he could fly out for a photo op quickly. Gov. Sebelius had natural disasters throughout the state to deal with, which explains why Brownback and Roberts could arrive in Greensburg hours before she did.
Nice excuses for Gov. Sebelius's "plight". The only thing missing is common sense. I missed it, where in Kansas did the other F5 tornadoes LEVEL ENTIRE TOWNS????
And if you stand behind this retarded explanation, then I'm curious, what is your view on FEMA's response time to New Orleans?
Couldn't you apply your same logic to the Katrina situation and say that President Bush and FEMA did all that they could possibly do for New Orleans? In fact, why don't you post a reply and say just that? I dare you.
Usually, I don't waste my time responding to obscenity-filled rantings such as those of J4SONL33, but since this rabid right-winger dared me to, I will do so. (By the way, J4SONL33, please use correct spelling. In one of your posts, you wrote "it's," which is a contraction for "it is" when obviously you meant "its," a possessive adjective.)
Let's compare Gov. Sebelius's response to the Greensburg tornados. She was on the scene less than 48 hours after the storm hit. During that weekend, tornado watches and tornado warnings were rampant throughout Kansas, rivers were overflowing, many towns (including the capital city) were partially underwater, hazardous chemical spills occurred several places throughout the state, much of the state's wheat crop was ruined, etc. She had a few things to take care of last weekend.
Compare that to the responses of Bush and FEMA to Hurricane Katrina, which hit New Orleans on August 29, 2005. Sensing catastrophe, on August 26 Louisiana Gov. Blanco had issued a state of emergency, and on 8/27 asked Bush to declare a state of emergency. On 8/28, the director of the National Hurricane Center warned Bush and FEMA of possible levee failure in New Orleans. On 8/29, FEMA director Michael Brown warned Bush about what was transpiring in New Orleans. Rather than rushing into action, Bush went to a birthday party for John McCain, where the two of them staged a photo op in front of a birthday cake. On August 30, Bush flew to Coronado Naval Base near San Diego to deliver a speech in support of the Iraq War in front of an almost all-white audience. That was when he was photographed as he pretended to play a guitar given him by country singer Mark Willis. Meanwhile, much of the rest of the country saw news pictures of predominantly-black New Orleanians suffering and drowning. On the evening of August 30, Bush flew back to his "ranch" (if it's a ranch, where are the cattle?) in Crawford, Texas to extend his vacation. On August 31, Gov. Blanco twice called the White House asking for help. Bush flew over Louisiana and saw the devastation from the air. On Sept. 2, White House staffers made Bush watch a DVD of newscasts about the Katrina devastation. Bush finally arrived in New Orleans that day, where he made his infamous "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job" comment. That day Bush remarked that he fondly recalled getting hammered in New Orleans as a young man, and that he looked forward to sitting on the rebuilt front porch of Senator Trent Lott's beach house in Mississippi. On Sept. 3, the White House leapt into its blame game, lying that Blanco had never declared a state of emergency and blaming state and local officials for everything which went wrong because of Katrina. On Sept. 4, six days after the levees broke, all people were finally evacuated from the Superdome . (That same day, Barbara Bush said about the conditions in the Superdome: "Many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this, this is working very well for them.") On October 3, the Independent, a British newspaper, ran an article titled, "Iraq war delayed Katrina relief effort, inquiry finds." It stated: "Relief efforts to combat Hurricane Katrina suffered near catastrophic failures due to endemic corruption, divisions within the military and troop shortages caused by the Iraq war, an official American inquiry into the disaster has revealed. . . . Desparately needed National Guards were stuck in Iraq." (That inquiry was commissioned by the U. S. Department of Defense.)
Let's compare responses to disasters by these two executives. Sebelius made it to Greensburg less than 48 hours after the tornado after dealing with multiple disasters throughout Kansas that weekend. After Katrina appeared, Bush had time to go to a birthday party for John McCain, fly across country to San Diego to give a pro-war pep talk, goof around with a country music singer, return to Texas to vacation, return to Washington, and then four days after massive flooding began in Louisiana, finally made there for a photo op. Sebelius immediately understood the impact of the Greensburg tornado. It took Bush days to comprehend what was happening in Louisiana as a result of Hurricane Katrina.
What the two disasters had in common was that in both cases, response time was delayed because needed National Guard troops were in Iraq. No matter how Bush-lovers try to spin it, Americans suffered unnecessarily in Louisiana in 2005 and Kansas in 2007 due our Iraqi adventure.
Professor,
Thank you for the history lesson..Many of these facts are not out in the public.
Ims' off now to my Speeling class. I dont' get the best graids in that class. I gots to quit cheating off Jason333 and start studiing more harder.
There's a good reason why some of these "facts" aren't out in the public. Care to guess why?
Where do I start? Hmmmmmm...........first let me speak to your claim that Gov. Sebelius "had a few things to take care of that weekend."
You noted many towns were partially underwater, which means that those same towns were "mostly" not underwater. A notable difference when compared to the condition of Greensburg. You also said that "much of the state's wheat crop was ruined. I'm confused. Why bring that up? Was she extraordinarily busy coordinating efforts to search for surviving wheat crops? I just don't understand what kept her attention diverted from the 22 mile long swath of destruction that erased an entire town from the map? That's just me, though. I'm curious like that. I guess it's my "right-wing rabies" acting up.
Now, on to "your" Katrina story. I must admit, you did a great job slanting the story to reflect your disdain for the legally elected President of the United States. I wish I had the time to point out every little inaccuracy in your fable, but I don't. So, I'll just highlight the ones that made me laugh the hardest.
1. On August 27, Governor Blanco DID ask the President to declare a state of emergency. Why? Because she is required to do so. President Bush made the declaration that very same day. BTW, you failed to mention that one day EARLIER the White House declared an "impending disaster area" and dispatched 10,000 National Guard troops along the Gulf Coast.
2. Your slant was that the President gave a speech "in support of the Iraq War in front of an almost all-white audience" in San Diego on August 30. It was actually a commemoration of the 60th anniversary of V-J Day. Any surprise that most of the audience was white? Is it hard to believe that they almost all wore heavily decorated VFW garrison hats? What's even more surprising is that most of them were about 80 years old, too.
3. You said the President flew back to Crawford on the evening of the 30th to "extend his vacation". Funny, that's the EXACT same day that he announced he would cut his trip short and return to Washington. He also recalled the Congress to approve emergency funding. (Shhh.....Congress was on vacation, too, but don't tell anyone.) See, when the levee breaches were confirmed, he dropped everything and went to work on getting even more aid to New Orleans.
4. "On August 31, Gov. Blanco twice called the White House asking for help." Again, she's required to do this. This time what she asked for was assistance in regaining control of the streets of New Orleans. That's the same day that Nagin ordered the police to stop search and rescue operations and focus on violence and looters. Four Navy ships arrived with supplies and commenced search and rescue that day, as well. I wonder who made that happen. President Blanco? Admiral Nagin?
5. President Bush arrived in New Orleans on September 2nd - 3 days after the storm. That was, of course, after he had; declared a state of emergency (before Ray Nagin did), declared a national disaster (allowing deployment of active duty military, who rescued most of the people stranded on the rooftops), ordered 40,000 National Guard troops into the region, coordinated a fundraising effort led by his father and Bill Clinton, petitioned Congress to authorize 10.5 billion in immediate relief and authorized military transports to move the critically ill from New Orleans to Houston. What did you do on YOUR vacation?
6. Barbara Bush's comments were made at the HOUSTON ASTRODOME (NOT the Superdome) in response to her learning that many of the people in the ASTRODOME had no intention of leaving Texas to go back home to New Orleans. They told her that they were taken aback by the hospitality of the city and were eager to start a new life there. I agree, it was a poorly worded statement. But you twisted into an entirely different story. Come on, at least get the STATE right. You're a HISTORY professor?
7. If you're going to correct my literary skills, please correct me properly, your highness. My misuse of the word "it's" is an example of incorrect punctuation, NOT incorrect spelling, Mr. Nit-picker.
An accurate example of incorrect spelling can be seen in YOUR use of the word "desperately". Are we clear now? Judge not, lest........well, you know the rest.
Class dismissed.
HANNITY: Well, I've -- I've gotta tell you, if we can confirm and corroborate this, this woman needs to be removed from office --
Um, Sean, shouldn't you be doing that kind of thing BEFORE you go on the air?
Well, from the looks of the comments posted about this piece that cleared up the as-usual implausible and incredibly right wing Fox BS, it appears the Salon reader pages have been freeped by a couple of Kansas knuckle-dragging nonbelievers in evolution. The DNC should sue these Swiftboating wankers for libel and slander, on the Kansas governor's behalf.