O'Reilly: CNN, MSNBC "delight in showing Iraqi violence" and "are actually helping the terrorists"
During the "Talking Points Memo" segment on the June 12 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, host Bill O'Reilly responded to a study by the Project for Excellence in Journalism, which found that Fox News spent less time covering the Iraq war than CNN and MSNBC in the first three months of 2007. O'Reilly asserted: "In my opinion, CNN and especially MSNBC delight in showing Iraqi violence because they want Americans to think badly of President Bush. And that strategy has succeeded." O'Reilly also stated that he "can't speak for Fox News" but that his program does not "highlight every terrorist attack because we learn nothing from that. And that's exactly what the terrorists want us to do. I mean, come on, does another bombing in Tikrit mean anything other than 'War is hell'? No, it does not."
Discussing the study during the June 12 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio program, O'Reilly claimed: "The terrorists are going to set off a bomb every day, because they know CNN and MSNBC are gonna put it on the air. That's a strategy for the other side, the terrorist side. So I'm taking an argument that CNN and MSNBC are actually helping the terrorists by reporting useless explosions." O'Reilly later stated: "I'm not gonna cover every bomb that goes off in Tikrit, because it's meaningless."
Additionally, O'Reilly asserted that "CNN and MSNBC put [coverage of the Iraq war] on because they want to give the impression that the war is a loser and Bush is an idiot," adding: "Now, that may be true. The war is a loser, and Bush may be an idiot. OK, I'm not -- that's for you to decide. But that's why they're doing it." O'Reilly claimed that the reason he doesn't "do a lot of Iraq reporting" is "because we don't know what's happening. We can't find out."
O'Reilly has fueled an ongoing feud between Fox News and NBC/MSNBC, as Media Matters for America has noted (here, here, here, and here). Media Matters has also documented O'Reilly's previous expressions of indifference to the situation in Iraq. During the September 25, 2006, broadcast of his radio program, O'Reilly declared: "I don't care what Iraq was, I don't care what it will be," and added that he "[c]ouldn't care less" about the country.
The weblog Think Progress also documented O'Reilly's comments during his June 12 radio show.
From the June 12 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor:
O'REILLY: Hi, I'm Bill O'Reilly. Thanks for watching us tonight.
Fox News criticized for its Iraq war coverage. That is the subject of this evening's "Talking Points Memo." A group called the Project for Excellence in Journalism says that during the first three months of this year, Fox News had less coverage of Iraq than CNN and MSNBC.
That led CNN chief Jonathan Klein to say, quote, "Fox News were obviously cheerleaders for the war. When the war went badly, they had to dial back coverage because it didn't fit their preconceived story lines."
Wow, that sounds bad, doesn't it? Now, I can't speak for Fox News, only for "The Factor," and here's the deal. In the beginning, I supported the war based upon best available intelligence. I was on the same page as [Sen.] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] and [former Sen.] John Edwards [D-NC] and just about everybody else.
When it became clear that many Iraqis would rather kill each other than fight for their freedom, I told you that, all the while rooting for the U.S. military to win the conflict, despite the Iraqi madness.
That's right, as a commentator, I am rooting for the Americans and British to win because a victory is better for the USA and the world.
Now, we've done hundreds of Iraq reports on this program, as you know. But we don't do the carnage du jour. We don't highlight every terrorist attack because we learn nothing from that. And that's exactly what the terrorists want us to do. I mean, come on, does another bombing in Tikrit mean anything other than "War is hell"? No, it does not.
In my opinion, CNN and especially MSNBC delight in showing Iraqi violence because they want Americans to think badly of President Bush. And that strategy has succeeded.
So their Iraqi coverage is more political than informational, again, in my opinion. Could be wrong about CNN. I'm not wrong about the committed left-wing crew over at NBC.
Finally, just who are these Project for Excellence in Journalism people? Well, their spokesman is a guy named Mark Jurkowitz, a former TV writer for the far-left Boston Globe and the off-the-chart-left Boston Phoenix.
Now, I've known Mr. Jurkowitz for many years. He hates Fox News and is a committed leftist. So much for journalistic excellence.
Now, when the Associated Press picked up the study, it didn't identify Jurkowitz as a Fox hater, and it should have.
The bottom line is this. We've reported time and again that the war in Iraq is indeed a mess. There's little news value in broadcasting daily bombings. By the way, Fox News continues to crush CNN and MSNBC in the ratings, as the folks know news when they see it. And that's the "Memo."
From the June 12 edition of Westwood One's The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:
O'REILLY: All right. Now, they came up with a study of how Iraq is covered by the three cables, and Fox News covers it less than CNN and MSNBC. All right, the Iraq war occupied 20 percent of CNN's daytime newshole, 18 percent of MSNBC, 6 percent of Fox. OK. So, pretty big, pretty big. Now, OK, I'm not gonna dispute that. I can't talk for Fox News and what they do during the day. [Fox News Live anchor] E.D. Hill might be able to, but I can't. But on my program, I don't do a lot of Iraq reporting because we don't know what's happening. We can't find out.
Now, the reason that CNN and MSNBC do so much Iraq reporting is because they want to embarrass the Bush administration. Both do, and all their reporting consists of is, "Here's another explosion. Bang! Here's more people dead. Bang!" All right, we know that. We don't have to report -- it's like Vietnam. Did you report every firefight? No. We know that. The reason that CNN and MSNBC put it on is because they want to give the impression that the war is a loser and Bush is an idiot.
Now, that may be true. The war is a loser, and Bush may be an idiot. OK, I'm not -- that's for you to decide. But that's why they're doing it. They're not doing it to inform anybody about anything. What do you care if another bomb goes off in Tikrit? And the other thing is that the terrorists know this. The terrorists are going to set off a bomb every day because they know CNN and MSNBC are gonna put it on the air. That's a strategy for the other side, the terrorist side. So I'm taking an argument that CNN and MSNBC are actually helping the terrorists by reporting useless explosions.
Do you care if another bomb went off in Tikrit? Does it mean anything? No. It doesn't mean anything. You can't put it in any perspective. We don't know if the surge is working, if security's better. We can't find out. Why? Because our correspondents can't give you that kind of breadth. No correspondents could. Now, we don't believe -- we being "The Factor" -- that the war in Iraq is going well. And I've said that over and over. Am I gonna bring you every explosion? No.
Kicker on this -- Fox News creams CNN and MSNBC in the ratings, all day, every day. At 8 o'clock, "The Factor" beats every single -- not only MSNBC and CNN, but CNBC and Headline News combined. Because we bring you stuff that is new, that is relevant to your life, and I'm not gonna cover every bomb that goes off in Tikrit, because it's meaningless.
Now, the Associated Press writes this article, kicks it out there, like Fox is in the tank and doesn't want to give you bad news. That's a lie. And it comes off a -- you know, guys that hate Fox. Project for Excellence in Journalism -- come on! This guy, Jurkowitz, I mean -- all right, I'm not gonna get into the personal realm, but it's just ridiculous.
Jesus!
This guy is a pinhead!!
Rather than dare show actual reality, Billdo would prefer we just watch "Best of Bill O'Reilly" reruns.
Not everyone in America wants to spread the good news in Iraq. Just the bad. CNN was heavily reporting the mosque bombing in Samarra. Now it has disappeared and is being downplayed. If America has anything to do with death, CNN is all over it. If it's just barbarians killing each other, it's no big deal, lets talk about Paris in prison.
http://tinyurl.com/25pxhy for the story.
Only an idiot would think his fellow americans want us to fail. Oh, wait. Forgot who we were talking about there...
tonite while reading his email, b.o. said people on the far left websites misspell his name. This is not a far left website and we are always misspelling his name. What website is he refering to? Looks like we are going to have a republican president in 09 according to geo. allen and s. hannity. Dag Nabit, my hopes are dashed. You don't suppose they could be BSing do you? I heard them both on Faucks Nieuz. I should stop listening to those far right propaganda channels, do you think?
That is quite funny, him complaining about spelling now. Shouldn't he worry more about getting his facts straight first?
At least OR that Bush's policy s*cks. Inference: we don't show the violence in Iraq experience each day because that makes the president looks bad.
"In my opinion, CNN and especially MSNBC delight in showing Iraqi violence because they want Americans to think badly of President Bush" [Billy-Boy]
Well I suppose one could turn that around and say Fox shows less Iraqi violence because they don't want Americans to think badly of Bush.
With apologies to George Tenet...your comment is a slam dunk.
You must look at all the news reported by the major media with a squint. They all have an agenda to create the most audience...and that includes tacit slants...both right and left...if they think it will increase their audience.
By and large the media is a pretty shabby bunch...very similar to our current crop of career politicians, masquerading as civic leaders...with their only agenda of staying in power.
Slam dunk eh? Hey thanks Wes :-)
You must look at all the news reported by the major media with a squint. They all have an agenda to create the most audience...and that includes tacit slants...both right and left...if they think it will increase their audience....by Wesley
Bingo! I've never bought into the MSM having an all consuming Liberal or Conservative bias. An honest person can admit seeing either a Left or Right slant being presented depending on what they happen to be viewing, listening to or reading at the time.
I see the far-right slant in all of it. We must hate other nations, spend all our energies and resources on war, and must hate each other and fight over every dollar in sight. It's classic sociopathy combined with corporatism...in other words, fascism. It's very much like Franco's Nationalists....far-right religious conservatives (Carlists) in league with far-right corporatists (Falange). Fascism has it's precendents and it's patterns. They're being repeated in the USA.
"They're being repeated in the USA"
Then why do you live here? I'm sure Fidel Castro would love to have you as a resident of Cuba.
Geez, that's original. it is RedKing's country too, and he has EVERY right to criticize it. Read the Constitution, specifically the First Amendment. A patriotic American does not view their country through rose-colored glasses, but remains skeptical and vigilant to threats undermining its freedom.
I never said that Red King didn't have 1st Amendment rights. My point was that if Red King and others on the far left want to live under a socialistic economic system, then they would be better off moving to a socialistic country rather than trying to change the U.S. into a socialistic country.
REDKING = FAR LEFT?
Such extemes from extreme yet weak-minded people....
I'm a social-capitalist anti-federalist Pennsylvania-nationalist liberal radical. My political heroes include Benjamin Franklin, Guiseppe Garibaldi, Mahatma Ghandi, and Che Guevara. I detest the corporate money-worshipping brainwash-the-masses media machine that is trying to rule over all our lives and I'm very vocal about changing the system for the sake of the people.
Yeah, one might call me a bit of a leftie.
We need socialism. Socialism builds schools, repairs bridges, and puts men on the moon. What we have today is called "pirate capitalism"...also known as "gangsterism" and "corporatism" and "fascism". Pirate capitalism only rape, loots, and murders. Socialism heals and creates. We need socialism, we don't need pirate capitalism. Why don't you be the one to move? Go to Haiti, they're the ultimate capitalist country. You'll never have to pay for anyone's kid again. Just mind the slums.
And I think if people like you want to invite those who disagree with you to leave the country perhaps it would be the right thing to do to invite YOU to leave and go somewhere that the hack people to death with machetes when they voice opinions the powers that be dont like.
Why do YOU live here. I think your black fascist heart would be better served in another country like Guatemala since you dont like dissenting opinions.
I love dissenting opinions. I'm a strong supporter of free speech rights, You're an advocate of censorship. You shouldn't be lecturing me about freedom of speech.
"Jeter2" has these thoughts as are rather worthwhile in their own right:
To which Your Correspondent wishes to add:
"Whatever happened to a healthy skepticism?"
Such, no doubt, is the point of mein weblog (q.v.)--even if there are those inclined to dismiss same as Worst. Weblog. Ever.
And Another Thing:
What kind of news would Bill O'Reilly be expecting the Lower Classes to watch anyway--prolefeed of the crudest and most distracted sort?
An honest person can admit seeing either a Left or Right slant being presented depending on what they happen to be viewing, listening to or reading at the time.
I agree, but call me Diogenes.
Nailed it!
And the reasonable conservative strikes again. Thanks for pointing that out.
At least Billy made a truthful statement:
"I don't do a lot of Iraq reporting, because we don't know what's happening. We can't find out."
Yeah, might as well just forget about it. "Hey, let's smear Democrats."
It's about time for the guys in the white jackets.
Bil might want to look at MSNBC 31% rating. 26% of there coverage was on policy, 2% was on the homefront and just 3% on events on the ground. Bill and Fox don't seem to understand that the war is the #1 issue in this country for many not what's jail like for Paris.
He might also take into account there have been American soliders killed in bombing in Tikrit.
What an outrageous statement.
"We don't highlight every terrorist attack because we learn nothing from that."
Excuse me, Bill? You and your network cannot stop covering things like "Fort Dix Al Qaeda cell" which apparently idiotically planned to charge a US military base using small arms. They reported the "Miami Terror Plot" that turned out to be a bunch of idiots with no ties to terror groups and no weapons.
Fox has no problem playing up seemingly phony terror plots like the ones above because it serves their political agenda (that Bush is supposedly protecting us here at home). The very real and deadly attacks that happen almost daily in Iraq do not support that agenda anymore, so they are ignored.
Don't forget about the Brooklyn Bridge and the blowtorch..I .still can't believe these idiots haven't confessed to being Rove's mouthpiece, he must be paying them a ton of $$.
Actually, I always thought that Rove just had a huge filing cabinet full of pics of administrtion and congresspersons in VERY compromising positions, and that's how he stayed in power. How BillO fits in I am unsure -- since that whole loofah/falafel thing became public, it must be something REALLY bad.
Fox is unabashedly in the pro-Bush camp. Who can really deny that? O'Reilly should stop trying to spin his employer and himself any other way. He just looks foolish and disingenuous.
Do the other networks do as O'Reilly charges they do? To say they "delight" in it is quite an inflammatory charge that of course, he can't back up. Do they highlight the negative more than the positive, what little there is? Maybe. But that's war coverage historically, for the most part.
Just more opposition bashing from O'Reilly. He is a small man.
If there was the: "iraq war channel" 24/7 what would b.o. say about NBC and MSNBC? hannity is foaming at the mouth right now about going to war with Iran. Fill your canteens as it won't be long before you are called to serve. I think after Iran, hannity wants to declare war against Calif. I am actually speachless at this moment in time.
"The terrorists are going to set off a bomb every day, because they know CNN and MSNBC are gonna put it on the air."
Terrorist 1: Olbermann showed footage of the aftermath of the bomb we set off today. I just was it on my 42" plasma a few minutes ago. I never miss Countdown!
Terrorist 2: Great! Our efforts are being rewarded after all. I was a little demoralized after Fox stopped showing so many of our bombings, but CNN and MSNBC picked up the slack.
(continued)Osama Bin Laden: This is what makes hiding a cave all worth while.
"Do you care if another bomb went off in Tikrit? Does it mean anything? No. It doesn't mean anything."
That's what they call "supporting the troops."
Yeah, that statement pissed me off, too. I would imagine a bombing in Tikrit matters very much to Tikritis. You remember them, right, those Iraqis whose lives we were going to make so much better?
Idiots like O'Reilly helped Bush lie our way into this war and now they get queasy with the consequences? I think anyone who ever supported this war should be forced to watch footage of the victims of the Iraq debacle. Maybe that will keep them from "doubling-down" in Iran.
The parents of the soldier that was killed in that Tikrit explosion will be glad to hear that it doesn't mean anything.
As will the parents of all the kids that are loading up on the C130's right now to head over there.
I found this equally insulting:
"I mean, come on, does another bombing in Tikrit mean anything other than 'War is hell'? No, it does not."
The "War is Hell" excuse is about as valid as, "well, life's not fair." Maybe it's a pet peeve of mine, but people that say "Life's not fair," can pretty much all go to hell. Like that's going to make me feel better about the cable company doubling their rates or getting a parking ticket.
I have the same disdain for the "War is Hell" crowd. To use a such a blanket term to define wartime atrocities is almost inhuman. Death, torture, disfigurement, grief, sacrifice, injustice? Oh don't worry about that stuff. War is hell, didn't you know?
Nick
The "life's not fair" cliche pisses me off too. It's a cheap way for somebody to justify their OWN actions.
I didn't invent this response, but when I hear someone use that hackneyed defense of their decisions I now reply "Life is neither fair nor unfair. It just is. It's PEOPLE who are either fair or unfair, & the question here is which kind are YOU?"
It never really resolves anything, since they're only trying to smugly justify their OWN unfairness, but now THEY'RE the ones who are pissed off.
I use a variation of that, I tell them life isnt fair but people SHOULD be.
Nick,
You make a good point but I think when people use the "war is hell" phrase you have to look at the context. That is a good way to describe war. But I agree when people use it to downplay things like civilian deaths it has a negative condenscending meaning.
Not to mention that the man using the phrase "war is hell" has been one of the loudest cheerleaders for this one.
Yeah but its not hell for HIM
Yeah, O'Reilly supports our troops and milittary sooooo much he couldn't wait to volunteer for Vietnam when he was of age. I hate a chickenhawk. Hat is a strong word but when it comes to cheerleaders for war who avoided service I hate them.
Clams:
At the behest of the "Great American" Bill O'Reilly, our military will soon install emergency sirens in Iraq which go "Whoooopeee...Whoooo cares..."
A nannite head walking tall. Danger! Tripping Hazard Ahead!
"The terrorists are going to set off a bomb every day, because they know CNN and MSNBC are gonna put it on the air."
CNN exec 1: Our nefarious plot to aid the terrorists is working.
MSNBC exec 2: Not only are we helping the terrorists, but we're making Bush look like an idiot in the process!
CNN exec 1: It's called killing two birds w/ one stone, my friend.
*both howl w/ diabolical laughter*
There is no war against terrorists in Iraq. The first thing Bush did was outlawed the Baath Party a 30 miilion strong party. That is going to anger some Iraqis and get them to fight back.
The second thing Bush did was abolish the Iraqi Army. Big mistake. for several reasons. One of which you took the supper away from a man and his family. That is going to cause anger. The other reason is that it left the Americans soldier to fight only civilians. Worst thing for any soldier in the world to confront.
Third mistake was ignoring Iraqi history. The three tribes had a previous history of power grab beginning in 1920. The dust was settled at the arrival of Saddam. Saddam even told Rumsfeld that he should get to know Iraq. Rummy wasn't called the dummy for nothing. Bush stirred up a hornets nest by bringing back the bloody power play between the tribes with his removal of Saddam.
Fourth mistake. Bush didn't restore the cities and towns he blew up. Again creating angry Iraqis.
Fifth mistake. Bush didn't secure the borders from day one in Iraq.
The rest are just Bush lies. The biggest one which is the fight in Iraq is a fight against terrorism. That is not true. The fight is against a lot of angry Iraqis see the above. The other lies was connecting Iraq with 911 or Al Qaeda.
Murdoch has bragged that he was instrumental in conning us into this war. No wonder he wants to down play it. As for Bill-O the real reason he doesn't talk about Iraq is because he doesn't bite the hand that feeds him. That hand being none other than Murdoch.
Harlequin must have watched the replay of the PBS Frontline special about the 1st year in Iraq, and all the massive mistakes the Bush Admin made.
It's a very damning hourlong special, if you haven't seen it.
Murdoch has already stated that his goal is to bring down liberal governments in the countries where he owns media. He's fascisti.
This is indeed truly troubling....I thought Fox and friends were going to show us 'all the good things' that are happening in Iraq (that the MSM won't show). Does this mean Fox can't find enuff 'good things' about Iraq? Does this mean things aren't going well? Tell me it isn't so Bill!!!
When I first saw this at Thinkprogress, I left the following comment, and I really don't know how to say it any better:
Fox News was singing a much different tune about the war back in 2003. Eagles were screeching and soaring across the TV screen as our Tanks were roaring across the desert into Baghdad. Fox News was one big, patriotic rightwing orgy wrapped in stars and stripes all day and all night.
So what happened?
That's back when we were promoting the products of our military/industrial complex - the big bombs, the airplanes, the missiles...
Not much of that going on these days. Nothing now but hard and dangerous work, and that doesn't make for very engaging advertising.
So now we have "far-left" and "off the chart left"
What's next?
"Extra-super-dupper-indusrial-strength-left?"
Any other suggestions?
I've seen Bill's charts. Most self-respecting figures are scrambling around trying to get off them...
I've also seen the Big Giant Head's charts. They're red. And everything leads to George Soros. And his kid helped him with them.
The most disturbing thing about that one is that it looks like a uterus. It makes me think that O'Lielly's fans fear the power of the womanly womb.
double ewes and cees first!
Uh...
The "Everclear" left. 190 proof.
The maruhuana injecting, acid smoking left.
I watched this show the other night when it first came on, and then actually saw it when it replayed later in the evening to verify that he actually did what I thought he did.
He sometimes reads verbatim from the printed talking points that are on the screen, and often he embellishes from them to include more detail. It makes sense that he would do that.
Last night, however, he skipped a whole sentence. The sentence said something like "My initial assessments of the situation in Iraq were totally wrong."
He never said it. It was printed on the screen, and he skipped right over it.
This was what he said in the end where the graphic was ignored is marked by the *****.
"The bottom line is this. We've reported time and again that the war in Iraq is indeed a mess. ****** There's little news value in broadcasting daily bombings. By the way, Fox News continues to crush CNN and MSNBC in the ratings, as the folks know news when they see it. And that's the "Memo."
"War is hell".
You've got that right, Bill.
And anyone who has chosen war had best never forget it.
They should be reminded of the horrors of war every day of their lives, just like those who've been sent to fight the war others chose for them.
A pretty popular standard tactic used here by the lesser conservative posters is to accuse MMFA of jealousy or envy, sort of like the Junior High School defense used by A-holes who nobody likes (You're just jealous).
Usually it involves ratings or votes, and having nothing to defend a person with other than that they've fooled many other people , so they must be doing something right.
Recently a poster used the term BO envy in response to the number of items about BilldO here in a short period.And I had to think "Who could envy this bitter confused old man?"
I think I get it now.Projection by those who wish they could collect BilldO's salary for merely showing up every day and humiliating themselves by keeping a straight face while babbling ridiculous worn-out propaganda like this.
Good point WARRIOR. I tried to explain in an earlier posting that the "war is hell" phrase has alot of meaning in the right context, especially to those of us who experienced it firsthand.
Bill-O appears to be on a mission to set the record for most number of times nominated for Keith Olberman's "Worlds Worst Person" award.
As long as Bill continues to beat Keith in the ratings, Bill has that award in the bag.
Billo only beats Keith in the ratings cause Billo's audience falls asleep in front of the TV without changing the channel first!!
Thanks, Tommy, for making HBL's point.
Now, go back to being oblivious.
More junk food logic passing as news worthy nourishment. Billions sold so it must be good for you. I love these higher ratings means it’s true answers by the Loofa Lovers Club.
"The terrorists are going to set off a bomb every day because they know CNN and MSNBC are gonna put it on the air. That's a strategy for the other side, the terrorist side. So I'm taking an argument that CNN and MSNBC are actually helping the terrorists by reporting useless explosions."
So, in other words, if we ignore them, they'll go away?
My mom used to say that about my brother. Didn't work then, either.
Right Wing talking heads sure are concerned with what the terrorists want.
These numbnuts troglodytes never got over Vietnam. I remember watching coverage of the war EVERY NIGHT back then, and that was when there were only 3 channels. We saw combat footage and daily body counts. The troglodytes have always blamed the media for our losing in Vietnam, and they're going to do the same when we finally have to leave Iraq...in a bigger mess than when we invaded. Some troglodytes never learn...that's why they're troglodytes.
Not only did they not get over Vietnam,
They also never got over TO Vietnam.
A rimshot for the Ol' Vet !
Amen WORRIER. I think in an earlier posting I called WARRIOR. Brain malfunction, sorry about that.
Chris, Worrierking actually served and fought, and learned something from it,as you have, so would probably not feel the need to call himself "Warrior".
You guys can leave the tough guy nicknames to Cukture Warriors like BilldO. ;0)
Cukture ?
Just to clairfy, were you going for "cock sure" or "culture"?
This is one of those rare instances where it worked either way.
Thanks HBL.
I've spent so little of my life as a warrior and so much of it as a worrier that I think the worrier part of the name fits me better. I'm also a big fan of the late, great, Warren Zevon who wrote a song called "Worrierking".
HBL,
Yeah I know. I don't know why in an earlier posting I referred to him as WARRIOR instead of WORRIER. It wasn't on purpose and once I notice I did that I let him know in the posting (two up). Old age is a bitch, I guess.
Oh yeah, I'm sure WORRIER will tell you this too. (On a lighter note) the main thing I learned about my time in Southeast Asia was to KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN!!!!!
Yes Chris, keep your head down and forget everything you were ever taught.
I agree about old age, but it sure as hell beats the alternative.
WORRIER,
You will have to forgive my nostalgia but I so rarely get to talk to other guys who were there. Your right, grunts learned more in the first thirty days then through all of basic and AIT combined. Quite frankly, there was a time when all I wanted to do was forget now all I want to do is remember. Anywho, thanks for the conversation.
Your welcome Chris. I feel the same way. It's funny, when you're more able to remember you don't want to, and now that we're losing our memory, we want to remember.
Worrier,
I was thinking about this subject and how it relates to the importance of remembering what war is like and then I look at Hannity, Boortz, Limbaugh, gibson, Bill Bennett, Smerconish, Beck, Hume, Kristol, Savage, O'Reilly,and then Bush,Cheney, Wolfowitz, Bolton, Delay, Gingrich, Guiliani, Romney, Thompson, etc. and I see that all these guys have somethng in common. They love war but never served themselves. Most of them could have volunteered but they ran and hid. Now they preach to us about how important it is for us to engage in a war and tell us that they know the price of war. I consider them in bibilical terminology "false prophets". If you notice, people like Wes Clark, Chuck Hagel, John Kerry, and other prominent combat veterans see the folly of war in general. Yet, these guys are villified by the above chickenhawks and their ilk who blindly follow them. I will just be blunt, It pisses me off to no end. Even Colin Powell, who had a central role in our involvement has now made a 180 towards this war. Why? Because these guys, like us, know the horrors of war. You can't explain it to people who haven't experienced it and I hold the belief that even though all Americans are entitled to their view on this war, the people who have seen combat, well, their opinion means more. But that is only my opinion. But I digress, my soapbox is failing under the weight of my spare tire I have aquired in my advanced years.
I agree. And you would think that those who chose to start this one would have heeded those who fought the one they avoided.
Instead, a lot of them question the service of guys who did go.
I have no problem with whatever anyone did to either go or not go to Vietnam. There was honor to be had in going and in refusing to go, but not in avoiding yet supporting the war, like some of our leaders.
I think that people who didn't go should not be cheering for the children of others to go this time.
The truth in Iraq has a liberal bias
I'd love to see the numbers on Fox coverage during high versus low points of the war...I bet they'd be telling
If actual, factual news reports embarass you, maybe you deserve to be embarassed.
Whatever happened to the truth will set you free?
It lost out to "partisan rhetoric will make ye rich".
Oh that was VERY good Neon very good indeed
Again, I bet the numbers are there
Tons of Iraq coverage during purple finger day, media blackout on Abu Gharaib...only on Fox not that any of the other media cheerleaders did much better
QUESTION
Why is it that other channels are afraid to hit FoxNews back...I just don't get that. Fox throws bombs at other networks all the time and the networks just take it when calling the Fox bias punk card is a NO brainer.
Anyone?
Give me a break. Keith Olbermann is the one who started the whole feud between MSNBC and Fox, and more specifically O'Reilly and himself. Olbermann attacks O'Reilly on a regular basis simply because he's envious of him. O'Reilly kills Olbermann in the ratings every single night, and it makes sense that Olbermann would be envious of O'Reilly. Olbermann is simply an ankle biter who throws out personal attacks against O'Reilly and other successful conservatives simply because he's jealous of them.
Aw, RH, nice of you to show up and illustrate my earlier post. Thanks.
12,000,000,000 flies can't be wrong.
Well put!
To which I would point out the irony of this allegedly Christian man engaging in the pagan practice of mindreading. What tools does Rino use to see into Olbermann's mind, do you think? Tarot cards? The Ouija board? Only God can claim such a talent and make such a judgment (1 Samuel 16:7), and Rino is on very thin ice trying to claim the ability for himself.
Burn the witch!
It's just an observation that anybody can make. It's pretty obvious. I could be wrong, but my guess is that if Olbermann was actually getting good ratings and beating O'Reilly and everybody else, he would just stick to politics and quit attacking his competitors.
No its not pretty obvious its YOUR biased take on the matter which SHOCK isnt the final word on the matter. In fact what IS obvious is that you dont define reality. It is another attempt to pretend you have amazing mind reading powers or to just assign venal motives since ya got nothin
"No its not pretty obvious its YOUR biased take on the matter which SHOCK isnt the final word on the matter"
I never said it was. It was simply my opinion. I give my opinions on various things, and you give your opinion on these things as well. That's what these forums are for. Nobody has the absolute truth. We all just give our own opinions.
Herein lies the problem. Opinions do not make for strong arguments at all. You need proof in order to win an argument. And lots of it.
The notion that everyone is entitled to their own opinion is a nice little democratic one. However, opinions mean nothing in the face of facts. I have never seen Olbermann pick on the Big Giant Head for anything without some kind of direct quote. That's journalism. Professional journalism.
Billo has defended himself before by holding his opinion sacrosanct. That's not journalism. That's gossip.
I've noticed that this is a common tactic of those on the Right. They dismiss or defend everything as opinion, because the facts are rarely on their side.
And that is the problem. It is so EASY to just assign venal motives. I could easily say the reason you attack Olbermann is that you have a homosexual crush on OReilly. I could say you are a memeber of al Queda and want to keep the American people ignorant about what is really going on in Iraq and support the war because you love to see Americans get killed. See how easy that is, just pulling BS out of my rectal cavity to make you look bad. It serves no other purpose and you do it all the time. Its a worthless thing to do and it furthers the discussion in NO WAY. So keep assigning venal motives because you have no real arguments but you can expect to get called on it. As rhetoric and debate goes its the bottom of the barrel
Rino
If ratings envy is Olberman's sole motivation for taking on right wing talking heads, then why does he continue to confront Glen Beck? Beck's ratings are so low that if his mother happens to turn in early, he loses half his market share that particular night.
Jeez, at least Tommy posted his Bill-beats-Keith-in-the-ratings excuse minutes before HuntingtonBeach exposed it for the idiotic non-sequitur that it is. But you presumably read HB's post, and yet you still went for the "Keith's just jealous" angle. Amazing.
"But you presumably read HB's post"
Now you're the one engaging in mind reading. I didn't read her post until after I posted. But it doesn't really matter anyway. She simply gave her opinion. She didn't prove anything.
Actually, I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt. Most people read the other posts before taking the time to contribute to the discussion. But then contributing to the discussion isn't really your goal, is it? And no, HuntingtonBeach didn't "prove" anything, but that's just another one of your non-sequiturs. And you can't just keep saying, "That's my opinion," as if that makes all your points irrefutable.
When did I have the sex change operation?
Funny, I just tuned in to Ol' Rush as I went to lunch, and he happened to b explaining how Liberalism is based entirely on envy.(in one of his comical angry liberal voices; "We'll show those rich people- make them poor like me!")
This was immediately after he discussed Warren Buffet being in favor of the estate tax, calling Buffet a socialist.
Personal attacks?
How is quoting O'Reilly a personal attack?
Olbermann uses hateful personal attacks against O'Reilly and other Fox News personalities on a regular basis. He went so far as to call O'Reilly "a sad, sorry excuse for a human being." That's as hateful as you can possibly get. He also called Chris Wallace "a monkey." Olbermann is nothing more than a hateful character assassin who attacks those who have had more success than him. If he couldn't attack O'Reilly and Fox News his show would be about 10 seconds long. I can see why you like him. You both love to use personal attacks.
As opposed to O'falafel who DOESNT use personal attacks? Get a grip what comes around goes around. Maybe he gets tired of Billy Omoron being a bully and wants to give him a taste of his own medicine. I say people who dont LIKE personal attacks ought not to use them and when they DO they lose any right to snivel like a little girl they are used against them.
Bill never used a personal attack against Olbermann. Olbermann started the whole feud for no reason. Olbermann obviously has some kind of hatred for O'Reilly, despite the fact that O'Reilly never even did anything to provoke Olbermann.
Like when he "attacked" O'Reilly for falsely accusing WWII Americans of an attack done by the Nazis? O'Reilly even had it pointed out to him by a viewer that he was wrong and he refused to retract his statement.
Do you agree with O'Reilly on this point, RINO?
I dont know or care if he has used personal attacks on Olbermann. He makes plenty of personal attacks. When you start tossing mud its world class snivelling to whine that someone throws it back whether they were the one personally attacked or not.
"If he couldn't attack O'Reilly and Fox News his show would be about 10 seconds long."
Gross exaggeration or bald-faced lie? I quote, you decide.
It's called sarcasm.
I keep forgetting that your dictionary is defective. The two missing elements of sarcasm from your statement are wit and an element of truth.
Rino
You say that Olbermann "is nothing more than a character assassin who attacks those who have had more success than him".
Interesting.
I'm going to take a risk that Rino Hunter isn't the handle that Warren Buffet uses when posting here. If not, then we can safely assume that Keith Olbermann has had considerably more success than YOU. And he's had considerably more success than ME TOO, damn it.
So then, how does your statement about Olbermann not also apply to YOU?
It takes a very warped mind to come up with the idea taht Olbermann is any way jealous of BillyO. Some things are much more precious than ratings, like the truth. Loving your work and doing a good job is more important than the pay. Olbermann will keep telling the truth about the wingnuts and people will end the end come to respect what he's doing.
I get the feeling that the envy and jealousy defense is the last resort .Class envy, ratings envy, etc. Pointing out any problems with others can't have anything to do with actual problems, you're just jealous!
You seriously believe that? Do you think its wrong to point out outrageous statements by another commentator?
By the way, RINO, I know you are a Romney man, you might want to read this article:
http://www.palmettoscoop.com/2007/06/14/brownback-assails-romney-on-abortion/
maybe two differant answers.
a certain population does not consider fox a lejitimate source of news and refuses to acknowledge their comments.
Murdock is not noticably differant from any other corporate media owner as far as personal politics go. This allows an image of being centerist (Oh those wacky fox folks. What are they up to today Henry?) without having to actually be centerist. They don't complain because at heart their position dosen't vary much from fox's more overt politsation of the news.
Because they're spineless yuppies. People who wear nooses for a living. They aren't creative enough to do it.
If I am to believe Bill's comment about using bombs to get on American TV...does that mean that flying airplanes into buildings on 9/11 was to show us the skill of their pilots and to get on TV. Bill, you are a dunce so go stand in the corner.
As Hawkeye said on M*A*S*H....war is not hell, hell is hell..you don't see innnocent men, women and children in hell.......
WAR is just WAR, an invention of mankind.
O"liar makes no Sense. He says that CNN and MSNBC have succeded in turning opinions of the public agains the war and this president. But then later gloats that Fox News crushes MSNBC and CNN in the ratings. Then why doesn't the Fox News propaganda and cheerleading (whic is seen by so many people) win out and cause more support for the war and this President. O'Liar wants it both ways: CNN and MSNBC are so influential because they preach the bad about the war, yet they don't reach anybody because Fox NEs blows them out in the ratings. What a punk, draft dodger who hid in the classroom during the draft and became a school teacher during the Vietnam war so he could get an occupational deferment. What a punk.
What gives Bill O the right to tell anyone war is hell? General Sherman had seen war at its worst during the Civil War. He had helped to end the war by some of the most blood thirsty actions ever undertaken in the United States, even by the horrible standards of the Civil War. Billy Boy has never experienced anything like war. Remember he has his chance to experience war in Vietnam but he went out of his way to avoid getting his hands dirty. Only someone who is not a chicken-hawk and actually experienced war has the right to tell anyone war is hell. And yes, I am a veteran of Korea, Vietnam, and Desert Storm. War is hell!
With your experience SGT your opinion has a lot of wieght. A near sighted seagull poster might give you some grief here. I can't imagine anyone else being that stupid. Thank you for your service.
If you do get hit by a seagull, feel free to shred him.
Billo is unbelievable!!! "Do you care if another bomb went off in Tikrit? Does it mean anything? No. It doesn't mean anything".
Tell this to the families that had a loved on die, or an Iraqi family who lost members of family.
Billo like the Bushies want the coverage to go away so that they can tell us that everything is fine while the cash cow continues.
Jesus it's time to institue a draft but only for the tools like Billo, Hannity and the rest of these blood-thirsy war lovers.
Billo - how can you sleep nights when you say crap like this and everything else you've spewed in the past!!!
Thankfully,in WWII, the media had the patriotism & the good taste to spare us the unpleasant realities of war. We never could have succeeded if we'd KNOWN that war is vicious, cruel, & bloody. The American people were spared that ugliness back then.
What?
They weren't?
Damned communist media!
Also, in WW2, the liberal media had a much smaller audience, because the whole country was busy, involved in the war effort. Even women got jobs building ships and airplanes to support the troops. The "Rosie the Riveter" of the time could easily have been your mother, working in a factory and running a band saw similar to this one....
FOR THE LIFE OF ME I DON'T KNOW WHY BILL KEEP PUTTING MSNBC AND CNN DOWN BECAUSE THEY ARE FOX NEWS. THE ONLY REASON WHY FOX NEWS SPEND LESS TIME ON COVERING THE WAR IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THERE BRAIN WASHED VIEWERS TO SEE WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON, BUT MARK MY WORD IF THINGS START TO GO WELL OVER IN IRAQ THEY WILL BE ON THE IRAQ STORY 24/7.LOOK FOR THEM TO BE ON THE NEW POLL NUMBERS THAT SHOW THE CONGRESS AT 26% AND THE JEFFERSON TRIAL BECAUSE WHEN REPUBLICANS NUMBERS ARE DOWN OR THEY COMMITE A CRIME THEY DOWN PLAY THE STORY.
HUH?? SAY WHAT?? HANG ON A SECOND, LET ME TURN OF THIS BANDSAW.....
There. That's better. Now, you were saying...?
What's entertaining about Ted Baxter is that he has become a caricature, a parody, and he doesn't yet realize it.
BillO had Dennis Miller on last night. One guy making an attempt at journalism interviewing a guy making an attempt at humor. Miller called Harry Reid a light-weight. Of course he completely missed the irony.
Now that's entertainment folks.
Mr O.Reilly is absolutely correct. Why would the average American viewer want to be constantly reminded about something so run of the mill as our soldiers being killed when there is so much more pertinent news available(thank you American Idol,Brittney and Paris). Again,he is right on the money,reminding us the FOX news ratings surpass CNN and MSNBC. And as every American knows,more is better! Hell,McDonalds outsells every other hamburger in the world,hence they're the best!
Billo has just given us the subliminal text in Fox's tagline/motto:
WE REPORT some of it, lest YOU DECIDE something contrary to our spin!
When Billy { OH know it's the biggest liar O' Really} says he can't find out whats going on in Iraq, it's an outright lie. In October of "06" when Folly's follie was headline new's, I chose to listen to S.Heinety because I wanted to here him squirm as his rating's were tumbling. Heinety or his clone I forget which was talking to one of their henchmen over in Iraq, and his henchmen made the comment and I quote " You won't believe whats going on over here, Fox News are all over the place, every where you look you see Fox News". When their was no comment on Heinety's end it was obvious they did not want to elaborate on the subject, so everthing went quiet. Then the same comment was repeated, and again everthing went quiet, and the subject was conveniently changed to some other rhetoric spin. O'really, Heinety, Limbol, Savidge, Regon etc ", of course I went out of my way to get the spelling correct" American's have got your number. The majority know that you do not have America's best interest at heart, and that all you care about is having a seat at the king's table after you have helped to destroy our American way of life. "Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the ruler's". ...Aristotle...
Bill Oreilly is a disturbed man, very disturbed, very, very disturbed.