Exonerating Libby of underlying crime, Post's Cohen confused about elements
SUMMARY: In a washingtonpost.com discussion, Richard Cohen asserted that Lewis "Scooter" Libby "didn't commit the original crime" in the CIA leak case because he wasn't Robert Novak's source for the column that disclosed Valerie Plame's identity. However, Libby did leak Plame's identity to other reporters. Cohen also falsely claimed that Plame was not "covert." An unclassified summary of Plame's CIA employment established that she was, in fact, a covert CIA employee.
In a June 20 washingtonpost.com discussion about Post columnist Richard Cohen's recent column arguing that former vice presidential chief of staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby was merely "practicing of the dark art of politics" when he leaked the identity of former CIA operative Valerie Plame, Cohen asserted that Libby "didn't commit the original crime" because he wasn't columnist Robert D. Novak's source for Plame's CIA identity. The investigation, Cohen wrote, should never have been pursued, and Libby should never have been charged with the crimes of which he was ultimately convicted: perjury, making false statements, and obstruction of justice.
The "genesis of the investigation had to do with the naming of Valerie Plame in Robert Novak's [July 14, 2003] column," Cohen wrote, "[b]ut that didn't come from Scooter Libby." But Libby did leak Plame's identity to then-New York Times reporter Judith Miller and then-Time reporter Matthew Cooper, and the statutes whose potential violation special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald set out to investigate, in particular the 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act (IIPA), do not specify that the identity of a covert operative has to be published for a crime to have been committed -- only that the information be intentionally disclosed to someone not authorized to know it. While Libby was not the source for the initial published report on Plame's identity, it was not because he didn't leak the information to someone not authorized to have it, but because the people to whom he leaked did not publish the first story containing the information.
As Media Matters for America has noted, during an October 2005 press conference announcing Libby's indictment, Fitzgerald said that it was Libby's obstruction that prevented the special counsel's office from determining if an underlying crime had been committed, although after Libby's conviction, Fitzgerald, in his May 29 sentencing memorandum, stated that the investigation turned up substantial evidence indicating that the leak itself may have constituted a crime.
As Media Matters for America has documented, journalist Murray Waas noted in his book The United States v. I. Lewis Libby (Union Square Press, June 2007) that Miller testified at Libby's trial that he had disclosed Plame's CIA employment to her at a July 8, 2003, meeting -- before Novak publicly revealed it in his July 14, 2003, column. But while she never wrote about Plame, Miller testified that she had suggested to her editor, Jill Abramson, that the Times look into Plame's employment at the CIA:
Q: You never wrote anything [at] anytime about Wilson's wife, did you?
A: No, I did not.
Q: Did you ever recommend doing so?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Who did you make that recommendation to?
A: To the Washington Bureau Chief ... Jill Abramson at that time ...
Q: What is your recollection exactly of your conversation with Jill Abramson?
A: I remember that it was a very short time after my second meeting with Mr. Libby [on July 8], and I was about to go back to my home in New York ... I was in the Washington Bureau, and I went into her office and I closed the door. And I outlined some of the highlights of what I thought we knew so far about the hunt for weapons of mass destruction and the intelligence. Then I said that there was something I thought we ou[gh]t to follow up on, a tip.
Q: What did you say to her?
A: I said I think that you should have someone pursue this, whether or not [former Ambassador] Joe Wilson's wife works at the [Central Intelligence] Agency and, if so, what she does.
[...]
Q: What was her response?
A: She didn't have a response. She just said "uh-huh." Then we went on to talk about other things.
Waas provides some context for this discussion on Page 196 of his book:
Following her breakfast meeting with Libby, Miller claims she recommended to a New York Times editor that the paper pursue a story on the Wilsons. The story suggestion, if made at all, would not likely have been taken up anyway, because Miller -- unbeknownst to Libby -- had been restricted in her reporting by the Times as a result of her problematic earlier reporting on Iraqi [weapons of mass destruction]. Despite Libby's determined cultivation of Miller, she never wrote a story for The New York Times about Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame.
Indeed, to violate the IIPA, Libby did not have to ensure publication of the information about Plame's CIA employment. The act bans "intentionally disclos[ing] any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent." From the IIPA, 50 U.S.C. 421:
(a) Disclosure of information by persons having or having had access to classified information that identifies covert agent
Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.
(b) Disclosure of information by persons who learn identity of covert agents as result of having access to classified information
Whoever, as a result of having authorized access to classified information, learns the identify of a covert agent and intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
In addition, Cohen responded to a question about whether Libby was protecting others' "bad acts" by asserting that it "turns out not to be a crime" if Libby and Vice President Dick Cheney had "set out to destroy the credibility of Joe Wilson ... knowing that his wife was a covert CIA agent." It is not clear on what basis Cohen claimed that "it turns out not to be a crime" for Cheney and Libby to have disclosed Plame's identity, even knowing that she was covert, for the purposes of attacking Wilson's credibility. Neither the elements of the crime as set out in the IIPA nor the exceptions include an exemption for disclosing the identity of a covert operative if done for the purposes of discrediting her or someone related to her.
Cohen later asserted that Plame was not "covert," and that Plame "had to be stationed overseas in a covert position" for the IIPA to protect her. However, as Media Matters has noted, in his May 29 sentencing memorandum, Fitzgerald wrote that "[a]t the time of the leaks, Ms. Wilson in fact qualified as a 'covert agent' within the meaning of the IIPA." To support this claim, Fitzgerald included an "unclassified summary" of Plame's employment at the CIA -- which had been given to the defense in June 2006 -- which established that she had headed a counterproliferation operation focused on Iraq and had traveled overseas in an undercover capacity in the five years prior to the disclosure of her identity. The "unclassified summary" states that the CIA "declassified and now publicly acknowledges the previously classified fact that Ms. Wilson was a CIA employee from 1 January 2002 forward and the previously classified fact that she was a covert CIA employee during this period."
From Cohen's June 20 discussion on washingtonpost.com:
Alexandria, Va.: Dear Sir: As I see it, the investigation was started by the CIA (hardly a hotbed of Michael Moore liberalism) who asked the Department of Justice to look into the leak. Ashcroft (not exactly a Naderite) recused himself and put Fitzgerald (a Republican-appointed DA) in charge of the investigation. Libby was caught lying to a grand jury and found guilty after having the finest lawyers in the country (paid for by a Republican cadre of well-wishers) and was given a tough sentence by a Republican-appointed judge. In short, not a Democrat was involved in this -- and yet you have the temerity to suggest it was political. I just do not get it. Can you please explain? Your articles do not, so please don't ask me to go back and read them.
Richard Cohen: Well, if you'll excuse my temerity, the genesis of the investigation had to do with the naming of Valerie Plame in Robert Novak's column. But that didn't come from Scooter Libby, and the pressure for the appointment of a special counsel came from a whole lot of liberals who didn't trust the administration to investigate itself. The thinking was that this was an attempt by a pro-war member of the administration to tarnish a war critic who argued against the war in the New York Times. He was convicted of lying to a grand jury, and I don't excuse that, and I don't excuse the war either, but the fact is that he didn't commit the original crime. It's a hefty sentence, the end of a career, and there's no underlying crime -- as there wasn't with Bill Clinton. I don't like prosecutors going after someone who didn't commit the original crime. They have too much power, they can go after almost anybody.
[...]
Tempe, Ariz.: Mr. Cohen, I thought the column was interesting, given the idea that Libby is held responsible for a failed Iraq policy. Like the Abu Ghraib case, this seems to be a lot about punishing people that are guilty of something terrible but are punished to cover sins by higher-ranking people. Libby is beyond the point of making a deal, but could part of the move to pardon him be motivated to protect some other bad acts?
Richard Cohen: I don't know how to answer that question because I don't know what the bad acts might be. If it's simply a question of "did Vice President Cheney set out to destroy the credibility of Joe Wilson" that may be a bad act, but it's not a crime. Did they proceed knowing that his wife was a covert CIA agent? Maybe, but that turns out not to be a crime either. This whole thing happens in Washington all the time, which makes it hard for me to believe Libby's covering up for anyone.
I was reminded about this when reading about Watergate recently, about how the judge of [sic] in the Watergate break-in case smelled a cover-up and gave the burglars stiff sentences in order to encourage them to talk. That didn't happen here. The judge didn't say he was giving Libby a stiff sentence to encourage him to turn something else in -- he just said he did this because he lied to the grand jury. So there's not a cover-up involved.
[...]
San Jose, CA: The spin seems to be that because [former deputy Secretary of State Richard] Armitage may have been the initial leaker and he didn't violate the IIPA, no one who subsequently disclosed Plame's name or status could have committed a crime. I don't think that is a correct interpretation of the statute. Is it?
Richard Cohen: My understanding of it is that a covert agent -- in order for you to commit a crime by exposing a CIA agent, they had to be stationed overseas in a covert position, and then there is a time limit on it. My understanding further is that this law only has been invoked once, when a secretary at an African embassy told her boyfriend there was a CIA agent there. I really don't think that anybody thought Valerie Plame fit that because, she wasn't overseas -- no one thought they were risking her life, she was working in McLean, Va.
You have to ask yourself, what was Joe Wilson thinking? Did he really think he could write a column in the New York Times without risking blowing the cover of his wife? I find that hard to believe.
The important thing here is that, just to give you an example of this being routine Washington stuff, is that Woodward was told this by Armitage and did nothing with it. He didn't see it as news. Novak used it in a column but it was a while before anyone viewed this as being important. Matt Cooper, Judith Miller, [Washington Post reporter] Walter Pincus, a lot of people had this information, and it wasn't a page one story. No one thought it was the outing of a covert CIA agent -- and in fact she wasn't covert -- it was just a leak.















Again with the "she wasn't covert."
CIA says she ways. I think that they ought to know.
I meant "was" not "ways".
Ostensibly arguing the "genesis of the crime", Cohen spreads the requisite lies about "covert" status, and imputed motivation for those who didn't publish. Even though thoroughly debunked by MMFA's resort to facts and reason, he has accomplished all he had hoped to accomplish: to iterate those basic lies, once more, for the titillation of his Repugnant/Corporate Media fans.
cohen is totally wrong about the "stationed" overseas part. the statute says "served", not stationed. plame testified before congress that she took several overseas trips during the previous five years on "secret missions". and cohen does indeed make a very big assumption that no other reporters printed it because they did not think it newsworthy. we also do not really know what happened between armitage and novak. both of them have a reason to lie, but there is no way to prove that. so, all the apologists. including david broder, just say well nothing to be done, no big deal. but it's a very big deal when our own government officials make a plan to out our agents and their front companies. who overseas would want to deal with us when they could be exposed with a line in some column by a right winger more interested in political spin than the safety of the country. that's you, novak, you lying worm.
What do they not understand about Treason?
What was the treason?
Quiet Sue, go back to the classroom.
LOL, Plamegate is a breaking story for you?
So now its Plamegate?
That is so cute.
Can't really laugh at sueeld. A guy who's employed by the WaPo seems to be playing catch-up right along with her.
Outing an undercover CIA officer waas once called the greatest act of treason by George HW Bush former VP, President, head of the CIA and unfortunate father to the current president. Valerie Plame was and undercover NOC who had traveled overseas in that capacity within the last 5 years while working for a front company that was monitoring WMD proliferation in Iraq. This, according to the CIA, her former boss and the ones who requested the investigation in the first place.
Libby, lying to cover for the actual criminal Cheney is complicit in his act of treason, ergo is also a traitor. Understand?
Bing,
Pray tell why then was no one charged with this 'greatest act of treason'?
Cohen, Sueeld and Barney Fife seem to have been afflicted with a case of group amnesia.
Your question has no relevance to the crimes committed by Libby. However since you asked and seem to be oh so ignorant of the most basic facts, allow me to enlighten you.
The charge of outing an undercover officer is difficult to do. It has to be proven that the outer knew the covert status of the outed. Only dick Cheney had the needed clearance to find that information out. Libby, Rove and Armitage may not have known her covert status when they shopped the information to the press that she worked for the CIA. Libby impeded this investigation by lying, obstructing and perjuring himself. If Libby flips and tells the truth, new charges can and will be filed.
Your logic, so why hasn't anyone else been charged, to dismiss the seriousness of the charges against Libby is absurd and frankly really lame.
Gee, where did anotheramerican go? I'm really curious as to what talking point he'll use to "confound" my logic.
You made the outrageous claim that this was the 'greatest act of treason'. I asked you why no one was charged.
Obviously you cannot back it up so you are attempting to shift the argument.
ps. Hey Hey Hey Gomer!
That outrageous claim was made by Bush Sr. chief.
Of course I shouldn't be surprised as you strike me as the kind of person who doesn't actually read.
Bing,
Your sophomoric attempt at a put down aside, You made the analogy and you made the link. Again you are trying to weasel your way out. If the quote had no bearing on the case, why did you bring it up?
Oh and next time, if you are going to insult rather than discuss at least try to be creative.
You misconstrued the statement made by George HW Bush as being my own. I corrected you. I don't weasel. And I'm pretty sure you missed a couple of my more subtle insults as you can't seem to accept what I wrote and have invented some alternate version.
I happen to agree with Bush Sr. and in this case an undercover CIA agent's cover was blown, by our own government. I'm sorry you can't accept that basic fact confirmed by the CIA. Until you can all you have is misdirection. Change the subject, attack the messenger, make stuff up, provide links to opinion pieces just as faulty as your logic, etc. etc.
Kind of tiresome really.
I'm done. Apparently it hasn't sunken in with you are only obfuscating.
You make a ridiculous and outrageous claim that Cheney and Libby are traitors and refuse to answer my question why they or anyone else in that fertile imagination of yours have not been charged with treason.
Try to come back with something credible and on topic this time or just let it go.
That's funny. Ok dude. Suit yourself. i answered, you didn't like it. I asked you questions, you send me a lame link to an opinion piece. whatever, enjoy your ignorance.
"You make a ridiculous and outrageous claim that Cheney and Libby are traitors and refuse to answer my question why they or anyone else in that fertile imagination of yours have not been charged with treason."
Here, let me assist you on your quest...
No one was charged because Libby impeded the investigation!
I don't actually expect you to get that salient point, nor to get that your babbling is getting a wee bit tiresome--but I guess we all gotta try to knock you out of your brain loop.
"You make a ridiculous and outrageous claim that Cheney and Libby are traitors..."
"He can tell the world the war is lost, which is almost traitorous coming from a man in his position while our troops are in harms way...Do you think his comment caused any 'aid and comfort' to the enemy?...the distinction here is that I do not believe that DeLay said "the war is lost." while troops were in harms way." (bold mine)
So to say that someone who says that the war is lost while troops are in harm's way is "almost" a traitor (if you're giving him the benefit of the doubt), and is really giving "aid and comfort to the enemy". But to suggest that revealing classified CIA information about a covert agent working on WMDs during a time of war is treason, well that's just ridiculous and outrageous, obviously.
You can reveal all the classified information you want, just don't criticize the war. Good to know, AA, thanks for the tip.
Another American:
Same reason Al Capone was not charged with MURDER. Seems the witnesses against him were prone to LYING to investigators, to cover up their boss's culpability. Libby LIED to investigators, therefore obstructing justice. It's a really simple concept, I'm surprised it eludes you.
excellent analogy Tex.
Sure as soon as you tell ME why no one was charged in the St Valentines Day massacre, and exactly WHY it would be relevant to whether or not it was a crime
Perjury and obstruction of justice do not have to have anything to do with outing a CIA agent. If they were investigating a runaway ice cream truck and he committed perjury and obstruction of justice the charges could still stand.
This is about respecting Law, the will of the People, the Nation itself.
The higher the office and position in government the more dangerous an individual becomes who has no respect for the Laws of the USA.
Without Law and proper enforcement of the Law any nation can devolve into chaos and cease to exist.
Fooey, If Scooter Libby goes to jail, it will be because he made a telephone call to Tim Russert and because Tim Russert has a different recollection of the conversation.
I think the deliberations and decision of the jury will have something to do with it as well.
AnotherAmerican, why do you have such disdain for the criminal justice system? Do you really hate America that much?
Your remark is offensive to the jurors who spent over 9 days deliberating the facts. Fortunately, they seemed to take their duty more seriously than you did the crime.
I do not hate the American Justice system nor do I insult the jurors.
I believe much of it has to do with the way the trial was adjudicated. The judge acted with animus and prevented 'memory' expert witnesses.
Jurors do make mistakes.
Judges make mistakes.
Prosecutors make mistakes.
(So do defense attorneys).
This case basically rests on the memory of two men who disagree as to what took place during a phone call.
There is no proof of underlying crime otherwise "the crime" would have been prosecuted.
AA, are you saying that you don't believe Libby is guilty of anything that he's convicted of, that it's all due to faulty memory and sloppy judicial work?
I'm not sure how it's done in Mayberry, but usually when there is a conviction for "obstruction of justice" the person convicted has prevented the further investigation of the suspected underlying crime.
Whether a crime was committed or not has no bearing on the charge or of the outcome.
The finding means that due to interference from the convicted party, the investigation could not proceed.
Goober,
Hasn't Fitzgerald's claim been proven false?
It has been shown he already knew who the original leaker was.
Meetcha at the drugstore but I gotta be home in time for dinner.
What does that have to do with the question I asked you, Barn?
Gomer,
I'm thinking you are looking for attention. Just read the other notes and I think the answer will make itself clear.
Einstein,
it is illegal to lie, obstruct justice and perjure yourself during a federal investigation. The original leaker, Armitage didn't do any of those things so was not charged. Most likely Fitzgerald was satisfied that Armitage was not aware of Plame's covert status, a condition necessary to be illegal. If you listened to the jurors they actually felt sorry for Libby because they believed others were getting away with much more serious crimes but they concluded beyond a shadow of a doubt that Libby was purposely lying. They deliberated for 9 days dude. Your half baked ideas don't constitute a pardon or reversal on appeal. It's amazing what facts you'll dismiss and opinions you'll cling to to justify your opinion.
No, Deputy Fife, I asked you a pretty simple question about the basis of your position, and you dodged it.
I'm not the first here to ask the question of the Libby fans, but if you answer it, you'll be the first to do so.
Do you think Libby is guilty of the charges for which he was convicted?
I won't ask it again, as I'm expecting nothing more than a Sandy Berger/ Bill Clinton related St. Vitus dance or another complete weaseling out .
Until you get up the courage to answer that, your comments on the topic have no credibility at all. But I hope you continue to post on the subject, for my entertainment.
HBL,
Why do you ask questions you already know the answer?
I've been arguing all through the thread that I don't think Libby is guilty. And yes I know he's been convicted.
Geez. I'd have thought even you would have gotten it by now. ;-)
Thanks,Sorry if you didn't get my question, AA, I didn't know how to make it any more simple.
You had been deflecting from Libby's crimes to the "Genesis of the Case", or the original leak, just as much of the media has been doing. I was asking about Libby's guilt re: the charges he's been convicted of.
That's all I wanted to know.Your positions may not always be as clear to others as you imagine them to be.
Also here's what perjury means
Obstruction of Justice
Just so we are all on the same page
No Fitzgeralds claim has NOT been proven false. Who committed a crime FIRST isnt relevant to whether a crime was committed by anyone else.
Hope that clears it all up for ya
AA,
So you catch up with the rest of us, Libby Trial
DOJ links
It might help to know what happened.
I think AA believes that impeding and interfering with an investigation (perjury and obstruction of justice) is alright.
Loonz
Please show me where he impeded the investigation? Show me where he lied?
read the transcript of the trial chief
Well, there it is folks! We've got a mistrial!
I'm so glad we have AA to inform us of these things. After all, he either was in the courtroom for the whole trial, he studied the entire court reporter's record, or both. He knows the heck out of this case up one side and down the other.
My burning question is, where was AA when Libby's defense team needed him?
They couldn't afford me. :-)
Seriously, I am only offering my opinion same as everyone else.
We'll see.
Actually you are offering the opinions of others like Hitchen's but you place your trust in the wrong people. Again, I encourage you to read the transcript of the trial and the actual statements of the prosecutor instead of taking somone else's word for it.
Terrific point, Bing.
AA either doesn't get this simple point of is purposefully being obtuse.
12 jurors tasked with listening to the all the evidence apparently did their duty and found him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
AA has an opinion that the jury was wrong, but denies that he got that opinion from another source, and asserts that he has the perfect right to that opinion, even though he did not listen to all the evidence in a non-biased way like the jury did!
Sure he just forgot whether he told Russert Plame was CIA or whether Russert told him. Yeah, does it hurt to make your brain believe such ludicrous tripe just so you can spew such nonsense to further the propaganda even when its virtually insane?
Actually, the case rests on the memory of one man (Libby) as opposed to the memories of about nine other people. That would be part of the "overwhelming evidence" mentioned by the judge in the sentencing.
ANOTHER AMERICAN:
Bush makes mistakes.
Republicans make mistakes.
Libby made a mistake ... and it was a CRIMINAL mistake.
Make NO mistake: He's officially a CROOK ... a CROOK who was the Vice President's right-hand man, in a corrupt administration.
WHEN Scooter goes to jail it will be because he perjured himself and obstucted justice as proven IN A COURT OF LAW.
Libby's testimony was contradicted by Russert and a half dozen other witnesses.
Duncan should be by to ask what all this has to do with Richard Armitage any minute now.
Never fear, the verdict will be overturned upon appeal.
Anyone want to bet their two cents?
Aw, I'll take that bet. The case seems solid, what grounds do you think he has for reversal?
Maybe the appeals court is loaded with Bush-appointed troglodytes?
You mean like the judge and prosecutor that got Libby in the first place?
As is the case most of the time, you're wrong.
Hahaha.... You are so kind.
Read this article and get back to me.
http://www.slate.com/id/2168642/Do you confuse opinion with fact? Christopher Hitchen's is hardly a shill but he doesn't offer anything that refute the conclusion of judge and jury. Try going to the source and forming your own informed opinion rather than relying on opinion pieces by pundits that you can claim as your own.
Do you confuse opinion with fact?
I'm thinking yeah.
Val, Thanks for admitting it. :-) Bing also does it often. See his traitor post
Care to point out what opinions I am confusing with facts? No, you'll just change the subject or put words in my mouth. And I think they were referring to you, not me. But I could be wrong.
Care to share with us your legal reasoning for that? Or is it based on your apparent complete lack of belief in our justice system?
As I just mentioned, take a look at:
http://www.slate.com/id/2168642/That's someone's opinion. The judge and prosecutor take Libby's transgressions more seriously. Try again with something other than op-ed piece.
At least my source has some relevance to the actual trial rather than your hysterical outburst about treason.
Physician, heal thyself.
Hysterical?
Why is it not treasonous to out an undercover agent? I'm curious why you feel it's no big deal. By the way Hitchen's is kind of hysterical at times. He still thinks we found WMD in Iraq for example and they had a nuclear weapons program.
Actually that would be George Sr.s hysterical outburst about treason, try to keep up
1. Libby is arguing that Fitzy didn't have juris-diction. What a lame argument. Even if the case is overturned on this technicality, it wouldn't do anything to change the substance of the original conviction.
2. The judge was too sarcastic in responding to Libby's unofficial legal backers. Hitchins argues this is prejudicial towards Libby, but it looks more like a judge who doesn't like the apparent attempted bullying by other legal professionals. I saw nothing prejudicial towards Libby himself. Quite a stretch by Hitchens.
3. "Memory experts" weren't allowed to testify? Sounds like some imaginative ultra-sheistery lawyer excuse making. I suppose if that doesn't work, the next appeal will be that Libby never owned a puppy or was breast-fed too long.
thanks for the synopsis.
Good comments, OM. I'll add a few...
1. If anyone is interested in the legal counter-argument, read this.
2. The sarcasm in his ruling may be unprofessional, but irrelevant. They would also have to show that the judge's response prejudiced the outcome, e.g., the jury. (Btw, read some of Scalia's opinions for equally condescending dialogue.)
3. A hearing on the matter suggested that the assertions of the "memory expert" might even be unscientific. It was pure nonsense and a waste of time.
AA, I'll take that bet.
Even with 2 of the 3 appeal judges appointed by Junior. Reggie was appointed in 2001 by Junior and guess what he gave Scooter 2 1/2 years and a $250,000 fine. And Pat Fitzgerald has an excellent track record.
And for Cohen to say "Libby should have never been charged" I say Libby should have never lied.
Pearlene,
I guess that depends on what the definition of is is. :-)
Maybe we can go.. uh.. um.. pay off the bet down behind..oops I mean ...at the drugstore and then take in a movie?
And you called me sophomoric! That's rich.
The movie OK, but I'd only go down behind, uh...... with your life insurance policy clutched in my hand. :)
funny!
AA, I just read what I posted and realized that it could be taken another way so what I meant is behind the uh.... only with an incentive (insurance policy) no freebies, ahhhhh I give up.
First he says " . . .but the fact is that he didn't commit the original crime. It's a hefty sentence, the end of a career, and there's no underlying crime."
Then he says, "I was reminded about this when reading about Watergate recently, about how the judge of [sic] in the Watergate break-in case smelled a cover-up and gave the burglars stiff sentences in order to encourage them to talk."
Does he even understand that he is contradicting himself? Is Cohen so trusting of this administration not to believe that quite possibly it was conveyed to Libby that he would get a pardon if he towed the line, and thus, no need sing? Why does Cohen give the benefit of the doubt to the adminstration's honesty, and not their dishonesty? This is very disturbing.
the genesis of the investigation had to do with the naming of Valerie Plame in Robert Novak's column. But that didn't come from Scooter Libby - Richard CohenIn the news tonight, there's a development in the case of the murder of corporate CEO Rich Mann. Suspicion had fallen on I. M. Thugg, who, it developed in the course of the investigation, had killed several members of Mann's family. However, officials have now declined to prosecute Thugg because the genesis of the case was the killing of Mann himself, which Thugg didn't do.
No offense but that needs work.
No offense but that needs work.
Cohen argued that the prosecution of Libby was misguided because the "genesis" of the investigation was the leak to Novak, which Libby didn't do. He leaked to other people.
My comparison may not have been the wittiest, but it is apt, it does use the same logic as Cohen's, and is one you did not address.
Seeing what you've offered here, you are in no position to judge others' arguments as "needing work."
The Scooter lied.....he lost his pride....the guy was tried.....he wasn't fried.....
Scooter will never turn on Cheney or he will be declared an enemy combatant due to "treason"(Cheney will use the findings of this jury to expound his reasoning) and the Scooter will be air-lifted out of the country to points unknown, (can you say the Bush property in S. America). No more attorneys, no more leaks, no more Scooters.
Libby pardon politically good?
The adviser explained a possible political upside for the president, who is at historic lows in the public opinion polls, this way: “The very bedrock of believers in conservativism -- across the spectrum, from the religious to the intellectual to the ones who care about national security to the federalists and libertarians -- have been disappointed in some way by this administration. This is something they’re all united around.” http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0607/4517.html
Often times I'm attacked for generalizing Conservatives, but if one takes a close look at the above it would appear that Conservatives are all united in pardoning a criminal whose trust this country can no longer count on.
How Conservative of all you Conservatives. If we look at what got the whole mess started we might get a better picture of your dark heart. What started the mess was the truth Wilson told in his Op-Ed the truth which is the Niger document is fake. The truth angered Cheney. Oh how the truth angered him and I'm sure the truth angered you Conservatives as well.
The fake phoney Niger document is consistent with the Downing Street memo. you Conservatives know about fixing the facts to fit the policy don't you?
Let's not forget how Tenet had to go public to correct a statement he made. Cheney the same man who wishes that truth would die by the firing squad and I'm sure you Conservative would volunteer to shoot truth, Cheney the angry man twisted Tenet's slam dunk statement to mean the evidence of WMD's was a slam dunk when in reality what Tenet meant was conning th public into war was a slam dunk, but you Conservatives knew that didn't you?
Libby who was instrumental in the slaughter of innocent Iraqis and our young men and women is now your hero. Your dark heart is telling. A criminal, a killer, an obstructor of justice, a perjurer is your hero. My how Conservative of all of you to unite in the one cause that ties you all together the cause of freeing a man that played the part in the mass slaughter of innocent people.
What was that about thou shall not kill?
What was that about thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods (Iraq oil)?
Your dark heart is telling but keep on conning yourselves with that Compassionate Conservative baloney.
Harle,
You and Bing have lots on common.
;-)
Yeah we report you decide does that have a familiar ring to it?
AA,
you can't address me directly but you'll insult me on the side. Honestly that's cowardly. I am not insulted however. People like yourself who are convinced they have a point but don't have the facts to back it up don't really matter that much to me. It doesn't matter what I say, whatever facts or advice I present, you will ignore it because it might make you reconsider your position. And it might make you realize that you don't have the grasp on reality you might think you have.
Aside from specifically outing an undercover intelligence person, there is ALSO a generic oath taken by administration officials about keeping classified information classified. Clearance to view and know classified information is granted, only when the person to receive this information is breifed as to its secret nature, warned of consequences of disclosure of such classified information, and sworn to protect that information from being shared with unauthorized persons. Those with a security clearance have a grave responsibility, upon which the nation's security depends.
As much as this White House was leaking classified information, the clearance level of each participant in this affair should be analyzed with an eye to how badly each person had violated their oath of secrecy.
Nancy Pelosi seems to have made up her mind NOT to impeach Bush or Cheney, but she needs to reconsider. Wholesale disregard to the laws of the United States has coupled with partisan vindictiveness and a total hostility to the notion of protecting our national security in this administration. NONE of these people can be trusted with classified information, and the only way to prevent their misusing such information is to remove them from office.
Tex,
Since we know that several people “leaked” her identity, were clearances pulled? This should have been done immediately. I’ve read and signed security statements attesting to what would happen to me should I leak, loose, mishandle, or otherwise be careless about security. I think a Freedom of Information inquiry into the investigation of everyone involved, the VP, Rove, et al would make very interesting reading for the citizens of the USA.Thanks for coming up with that, Tex. I'm tired of posting how contemptible this former clearance holder finds this gang and their cavalier attitude toward that oath. Of course, the rot starts at the top. George W. Bush swore, twice, in front of the whole world, to defend the Constitution "against all enemies." In 2005 he told three Republican Congressmen to "stop throwing the Constitution in my face! It's only a goddam piece of paper!" Now to believers an oath is a promise you make to God. Clearly, Bush's "personal relationship with Jesus" is such that he feels comfortable lying to him. We knew, of course, that he was comfortable lying to us.
Anyone interested in the Libby matter, will find comphrehensive information on the firedoglake website.
Anotheramerican, You seem to have an inability to understand the relationship between a right hand man of the suspect lying and obstrructing justice as a possible reason why the suspect's quilt cannot be shown. I dont beleive that you would have the same failing in any other context. the Libby defenses are to me most depressing. We have a kind of cultivated stupidity as way of approving the most unconstitutional behavior. Cohen repeats the reprehensible claim that Wilson should have expected the administration to expose his wife for criticizing it. Isnt this argument really saying we should all realize that the administration is dishonest and cannot be trusted. Doesnt this say we are at fault if we do not assume the administration will use intelligence information for political expedience? Doesnt this say that we are at fault if we do not assume this administration will not care about keeping intelligence information secret whenever there might be some political advantage to releasing it. Should we expect Bush to reveal the position/patrol plans of certain troops if one of the soldier's relatives speaks out about the war. Arent you saying that if the relative speaks, Bush gives the information and the soldier is killed ... the the blame is on the relative. the defense itself seems to rest on a assertion that none of the leakers bothered to determine whether the information should be kept secret before leaking. the apologists clearly apply no standard to the administration except whether or not someone can be convicted of a narrowly defined crime. Dont you apologists ever listen to what your arguments really say i.e. we cannot trust this administration to take care of intelligence secrets.