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With no objection from Novak, Scarborough falsely cleared Rove of leaking Plame's identity

July 18, 2007 8:50 pm ET

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On the July 18 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, during a discussion of the CIA leak case with conservative columnist Robert D. Novak, host Joe Scarborough falsely suggested that White House senior political adviser Karl Rove was not involved in the leak of former CIA operative Valerie Plame. At the beginning of his conversation with Novak, Scarborough said the press "followed [the CIA leak investigation] like a pack of dogs talking about was it Rove, is it [Vice President Dick] Cheney, is it [President] Bush, who was it, who was it, and when they found out it was [then-Deputy Secretary of State Richard] Armitage, everybody kind of yawned and went on." Later in his conversation with Novak, Scarborough reminisced about "getting on my show [MSNBC's Scarborough Country] every night, saying, 'If Karl Rove leaked this information, he should be fired.' ... While we're all going through this process, you've got the special prosecutor, who already knows it's Dick Armitage."

Scarborough was repeating a claim frequently made in the media that because he was the primary source for Novak's publication of Plame's CIA employment, Armitage was the only administration official to technically "leak" her identity. However, contrary to Scarborough's suggestion that Rove did not "leak" Plame's CIA identity, Rove was reportedly Novak's confirming source regarding Plame and, three days later, after talking with Novak, reportedly leaked the information of Plame's employment with the CIA to then-Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper. At no time during the Morning Joe segment did either Scarborough or Novak mention Rove's reported actions.

In the July 14, 2003, syndicated column in which he revealed Plame's identity, Novak attributed his information about Plame to "two senior administration officials," whom he later publicly identified as Armitage and Rove. In his new memoir, The Prince of Darkness: 50 Years Reporting in Washington (Crown Forum, July 2007) -- which he was on Morning Joe to discuss -- Novak provides this account of his conversation with Rove:

Rove returned my call late that Tuesday [July 8, 2003] afternoon. I had several items to bring up, most of which I still consider confidential. Wilson's wife came up at the end of our conversation. I relate this part of the talk because Rove himself broke the confidence, through his attorney.

I mentioned that I had heard that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA in the counterproliferation section and that she had suggested Wilson be sent to Niger. I distinctly remember Rove's reply: "Oh, you know that, too." Rove and I also discussed other aspects of Wilson's mission, but since he never has disclosed them publicly, neither have I. (Page 7)

On July 11, 2003, according to Cooper's testimony at the trial of former Cheney chief of staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Rove told Cooper about Plame's employment. From Cooper's January 31, 2007, testimony, documented in journalist Murray Waas' book, The United States v. I. Lewis Libby (Union Square, June 2007):

Q: And did there come a time when you discussed with anyone Mr. Wilson's wife?

A: Yes.

Q: And can you tell us when you first discussed Mr. Wilson's wife that week and with whom?

A: Sure. It was on Friday, July 11th, 2003. And it was with Karl Rove, a member of the White House staff.

Q: And can you tell us how that conversation came about?

A: Sure. Well, I put in a call to Mr. Rove's office. I believe I called through the White House switchboard, and I was routed to his office. At first they said he wasn't there or that he was busy, and then they put me through to him, and we talked.

Q: And tell us what you recall about the conversation with Mr. Rove on that day.

A: Sure. Well, these aren't the exact words, but the gist of it was I said, you know, we are interested in this Wilson story and the sixteen words. By this time, it had become a very big story. And he immediately said, well, don't get too far out on Wilson, which I took to mean, don't lionize Ambassador Wilson or don't idolize him.

And he went on to say -- and, again, I am paraphrasing -- that a number of things were going to be coming out about Ambassador Wilson that would cast him in a different light. He said that the director of the CIA had not sent him, I believe he said the Vice President's office had not been involved in sending him.

And then he said, you know, it would turn out who was involved in sending him.

And I had to draw it out of him a bit. I said, who? And he said, like his wife.

And I guess I, until that point, didn't know Wilson had a wife; I hadn't even thought about it. And then I said, "The wife?" And he went on to say that she worked on WMD at the agency, and by that I took to mean the Central Intelligence Agency, not, say, the Environmental Protection Agency.

And we talked a bit more. And then, at the end of the conversation, he said words to the effect of, "I have already said too much. I have got to go." And that was it.

Q: About how long was that conversation, if you recall?

A: A couple of minutes. (Pages 226-227)

Additionally, during the Morning Joe segment, Novak said of special counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald: "Now, why in the world he felt he had to continue an investigation when he already knew who did the leaking is something I'll never know." In his July 4, 2007, column, Novak similarly asked: Why did Fitzgerald pursue the investigation when he knew Armitage was the leaker and had determined there was no evidence of a crime?" In fact, as Media Matters noted, Fitzgerald provided an answer to this question in his May 25 sentencing memorandum in the Libby case. Responding to "Mr. Libby's friends and associates" who "assert that his prosecution was unwarranted, unjust, and motivated by politics," Fitzgerald replied, in part, that:

[I]t is undisputed but of no moment that it was known early in the investigation that two other persons (Richard Armitage and Karl Rove) in addition to Mr. Libby had disclosed Ms. [Plame] Wilson's identity to reporters, and that Messrs. Armitage and Rove were the sources for columnist Robert Novak's July 14, 2003 column, which first publicly disclosed Ms. Wilson's CIA affiliation. The investigation was never limited to disclosure of Ms. Wilson's CIA affiliation to Mr. Novak; rather, from the outset the investigation sought to determine who disclosed information about Ms. Wilson to various reporters, including -- but not limited to -- Mr. Novak.

[...]

To accept the argument that Mr. Libby's prosecution is the inappropriate product of an investigation that should have been closed at an early stage, one must accept the proposition that the investigation should have been closed after at least three high-ranking government officials were identified as having disclosed to reporters classified information about covert agent Valerie Wilson, where the account of one of them was directly contradicted by other witnesses, where there was reason to believe that some of the relevant activity may have been coordinated, and where there was an indication from Mr. Libby himself that his disclosures to the press may have been personally sanctioned by the Vice President. To state this claim is to refute it. Peremptorily closing this investigation in the face of the information available at its early stages would have been a dereliction of duty, and would have afforded Mr. Libby and others preferential treatment not accorded to ordinary persons implicated in criminal investigations.

From the July 18 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:

SCARBOROUGH: We have Bob Novak on, the prince of darkness. Which we thought we were going to have him on earlier; apparently there was a technical glitch, but we're going have Bob on tomorrow morning at 7:30, but wanted to at least get him on and start. Hey Bob, how are you doing?

NOVAK: How are you, Joe.

SCARBOROUGH: I'm doing great, Bob, you're the absolute best in the business. I know that from your reporting. You always seem to get the story before just about everybody else. But this Valerie Plame story, obviously, has been a real tempest for you. The thing I haven't understood about it from the very beginning is that the press has followed this thing like a pack of dogs talking about was it Rove, is it Cheney, is it Bush, who was it, who was it. And when they found out it was Dick Armitage, everybody kind of yawned and went on.

NOVAK: They said, "Wrong guy, it doesn't fit our conspiracy theory."

SCARBOROUGH: It doesn't fit the narrative.

NOVAK: We'll just forget about that.

SCARBOROUGH: Well, what's that about?

NOVAK: That -- the whole thing is the most overhyped, over-exaggerated story I can imagine, trying to make it out as some a deep plot at the White House, involving me, of all people. I was opposed to the invasion of Iraq, as you know. Armitage was as well. And so when they find out that it was not a plot that Armitage, in an offhand manner, gave me the information, it doesn't fit all the preconceptions. So, you know, they wanted to find that -- that Karl Rove and I had met in somebody's basement and concocted this plot to abuse Joe Wilson and his wife, and that just wasn't the case.

SCARBOROUGH: Well, and it was so funny, even after Scooter Libby was convicted, you get the jury out there, and they're wringing their hands, saying we wish we would have had Karl Rove on the stand, we wish we would have had Dick Cheney on the stand.

NOVAK: Unbelievable.

SCARBOROUGH: Nobody said we wish we would have had Dick Armitage on the stand -- the guy that leaked the documents. Even after the jury heard all of this testimony, they weren't concerned about the guy that leaked the name initially.

NOVAK: And the interesting thing about the special prosecutor, that didn't come out for a long time, is that he was given the information that Armitage had told me before -- before -- as he took the case. In other words, the Justice Department knew about it from Armitage before they named a special prosecutor. That means they were just afraid to deal with it, they didn't know how to handle the case, so they named this U.S. attorney from Chicago who's supposed to be incorruptible. Now, why in the world he felt he had to continue an investigation when he already knew who did the leaking is something I'll never know. One of the great shocks of my life, Joe, was, I was cooperating with them, and I wasn't going to tell them a thing. They finally told me who my source was. I'm sitting there, I'm wondering, why in the world are we having this investigation --

SCARBOROUGH: Why am I here?

NOVAK: -- if they know it?

SCARBOROUGH: They already knew. He knew all this -- and again, all of this, we're trying to figure out -- I remember getting on my show every night, saying, "If Karl Rove leaked this information, he should be fired. If Dick Cheney leaked an information of a CIA operative, he should be booted out." While we're all going through this process, you've got the special prosecutor, who already knows it's Dick Armitage.

NOVAK: And in my book, in the first chapter, I detail exactly what happened, how I got the information, how I wrote it, what I wrote it. I didn't defame Joe Wilson. And people, they don't like that story. They want something else. But that -- but what I wrote in the book, Joe, is the truth.

SCARBOROUGH: Doesn't fit in the narrative. We're talking to Bob Novak, author of Prince of Darkness: 50 Years of Reporting in Washington.

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    • Author by copiousdissent.blogspot.com (July 18, 2007 9:12 pm ET)
         

      MMFA, nice work, you caught him in the act!!!

       

      Karl Rove outed a CIA agent, and put our Country at risk.

       

      Next, we should impeach Cheney, Bush, Rove, Roberts, and Thomas.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by captfoster2 (July 18, 2007 10:08 pm ET)
           

        So this is what happened to Joe...... he's on in the morning,

        I couldn't agree more, except I would go a step further about these treasonous thugs and basically hang them for their crimes against this country!

        Say what can be said about Bill Clinton, for all the idiotic things he did (Monica, NAFTA, and the Telecommunications Act (that helped create FOX Noise, and moronic pardons) not withstanding......

        No one had died from Clintons lies.

        He never invaded a country ILLEGALLY.

        If the Repubs can attempt to impeach a prez for lying about sex, certainly the Dems can do the same for one that:

        A small example list of his dirty deeds............

        Lied about WMD's

        Ties of Saddam and al-Qeada

        Attempted to stop any investigation into 9/11

        Politicizing 9/11 and Katrina

        "Osama....Dead or Alive" to "I don't spend that much time on him"

        Basically being an arrogant prick by claiming to listen to his commanders on the field yet firing those that spoke the truth about the disaster Iraq is

        Allowing the outing of a CIA UNDERCOVER OP

        Firing prosecutors that refused to go after Dems before last Nov elections

        Signing statements! Can you imagine the right-wing attack if Clinton had tried this one?

        Knowingly allowing torture to take place in our names

        Cutting benefits of the soldiers yet extending thier stay in hell

        NOT attending even one soldiers funeral

        Invading a country that didn't or even couldn't hurt us in the first place

        Circumventing or flat out ignoring the FISA Act of 1976

        Being in bed with the Saudi government

        Best of all is the latest one that says intelligence suggests that al-Qeada is stronger than they were before 9/11.... Hey Mr Bush, Thank you for all that hard work!

        And worst of all.......employing a freak of nature named Karl!

        Report Abuse
        • Author by captfoster2 (July 18, 2007 10:11 pm ET)
             

          "A small example list of his dirty deeds............"

          Should read "A small example list of their dirty deeds............"

          Cheney first! Then all the rest should be easy..... theoretically of course

          Report Abuse
        • Author by leatherhelmet (July 18, 2007 11:52 pm ET)
             

          Actually, many people think Clinton invaded Kosovo illegally.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by wolf kotenberg (July 19, 2007 12:39 am ET)
               

            You have every right to say brilliant things in public, but Mr Leatherhelmet, you blew this one. Is this one of those " throw a spitball at a wall and see what sticks ? "

            Report Abuse
          • Author by wzwriter (July 19, 2007 8:55 am ET)
               

            And virtually everybody here knows that Leatherhelmet is incapable of thinking at all, with his head shoved so firmly up his rectum.....

            Report Abuse
          • Author by therick (July 19, 2007 12:53 pm ET)
               

            WOW !  Are you guys all complete idiots--or what?!!

            By using your own logic that the Iraq invasion wasn't illegal would be proof enough that Kosovo wasn't illegal, even though there were two completely different "reasons" for the invasions.

            I'm starting to understand:  If it's a Democrat it's bad.  If it's a Republican it's good.  It's really that simple isn't it Leather?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by leatherhelmet (July 19, 2007 4:34 pm ET)
                 

              No it's not but I didn't expect you to comprehend it.

              A hundred posts a day claim the Iraq war was illegal when it wasn't yet most anti-war types also claim Clinton's bombing of Kosovo -- which killed more people than the genocide--was illegal.

              The war in Iraq is/was/and never will be illegal. 

               

              Report Abuse
              • Author by tex (July 19, 2007 6:01 pm ET)
                   

                LEATHER:

                I like your emphatic assurance. It reminds me of the certainty with which we were told Saddam had vast stockpiles of WMDs. 

                Report Abuse
              • Author by wolf kotenberg (July 19, 2007 8:47 pm ET)
                   

                Mr Leatherhelmet, it was you who bridged from Karl Rove's office outing a CIA agent to Clinton and then to this latest rant about the Iraq war being illegal. Your transistors must be having spuriors anomalies in conductivity. Maybe you should be more critical of those GOP memos that float around establishing with the daily rant.

                Report Abuse
    • Author by sfcretired (July 18, 2007 9:51 pm ET)
         

      Copious,

      I've gotta agree with you about the impeachments,  we need to start with Cheney first.  It makes more sense to go after the puppeteer than the dummy.  Once we have Cheney booted then the rest should be easy.

       

      Report Abuse
    • Author by ulmew12348959 (July 18, 2007 10:16 pm ET)
         

      Libby first heard it from Rove according to his testimony. That paraphrased conversation could easily have been manipulated in such a way as to disguise the true intent. I am now presenting a hypothetical transcript based on the libby testimony and the theory that rove implied to libby in the conversation that he should leak to novak or other reporters the identity of wilson's wife in order to diminish his credibility in the press:

      Rove: That dirty ****sucker Wilson...

      Libby: What are you whining about now, Karl?

      Rove: Wilson has to go to the godd**n press and tell them that there is no connection between saddam and yellowcake uranium from africa.

      Libby: Well, WE sent him there to find out, didnt we?

      Rove: I, I mean, the White House, didnt want him sent. Your office didnt send him, and the DCI didnt pick him to go and check it out.

      Libby: Well then how did this ***hole who isnt on board with the iraq agenda end up investigating a cornerstone of the damn war pitch.

      Rove: His overbearing b**** of a wife sent him. Career CIA buraeucrat, that one. F****** Nonofficial Cover Operative specializing in the tracking of Weapons of Mass Destruction across international borders. Overqualified, overprivileged, ethics worshipping manw**** who believes the words written on the wall at langley arent meant to be an inside joke, a sardonic comment on the necessity of their existence and the work that they do.

      Libby: I have never been there, what words are you talking about?

      Rove; This is where a photographic memory comes in handy. "And Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free"

      Libby: (laughing hysterically) someone should do something to make sure this a**hole doesnt cause us any more problems. I dont want my boss having another heart attack when halliburton's stock tanks because we dont go to war with iraq.

      Rove: Well, he went to the media on US...having dinner with anyone soon? Novak anyone in the press who would present a friendly spin and protect her sources to the point of serving time?

      Libby: I have no idea what you are talking about. See ya later, buddy, I gotta go dig up my old rolodex.

      Rove: There's my good soldier. no wonder they call you "cheney's cheney" 

      Libby: Well, YOU are Bush's Brain

      Rove; that's not sayin' much (chuckling) 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by nativeofsf (July 18, 2007 10:54 pm ET)
         

      So which are the cowards and which are the traitors?

      There is a difference but is that just splitting hairs?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by proudconservative (July 18, 2007 10:59 pm ET)
         

      I look forward to the continuing search for a criminal without a crime for the next several decades.  Maybe you could dig up more relevant stuff looking through Eisenhower's memoirs, you know his national security advisor had his pants and socks made at the same place that Sandy Berger uses.  If not, maybe Teddy Roosevelt needs some scrutinty!  Bully, Media Matters(Very little), Bully!

      Report Abuse
      • Author by neondesert (July 19, 2007 11:57 am ET)
           

        I look forward to the continuing search for a criminal without a crime for the next several decades.

        Awww, how cute.  You miss the Clinton days.

        Little doubt that you'll have your chance to continue them after the '08 election.  Until then, you can ignore the crimes of the current administration and focus on Pelosi and the "pier repair scandal".

        Report Abuse
      • Author by therick (July 19, 2007 1:00 pm ET)
           

        Unless you guys think that outing one of our spies is legal, there was a crime.

        Indeputable facts:

        Plame was a covert CIA agent,

        She was outed by someone in the Bush administration.

        Upon trying to solve this crime, Fitzgerald was obstructed and lied to by Scooter Libby.

        Libby was convicted for perjory and obstruction of justice.

        The original crime has still gone unpunished.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by leatherhelmet (July 19, 2007 4:37 pm ET)
             

          There was no crime.  Plame was not covert, there is no evidence she was knowingly outed and furthermore her civil suit was thrown out of court.

          How much more of a beating do you people want to take on this issue.

          I hoped the civil suit went to trial so we could throw Joe Wilson, Valerie Plame and certain CIA members on the witness stand. That would have been worth pay-per-view money. 

           

          Report Abuse
          • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 4:42 pm ET)
               

            what proof do you have that she was not covert?  my proof is an affidavit from the cia.  she was their employee

            Report Abuse
            • Author by leatherhelmet (July 19, 2007 6:11 pm ET)
                 

              As I have explained to you before, the CIA affidavit is but one piece of evidence. 

              1. Plame outed herself when she listed her employer as Brewster-Jennings when she donated to Al Gore's campaign.

              2. from wikipedia:In the Washington Times, Bill Gertz states that, according to anonymous U.S. officials, "The identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame was compromised twice before her name appeared in a news column that triggered a federal illegal-disclosure investigation.... Mrs. Plame's identity as an undercover CIA officer was first disclosed to Russia in the mid-1990s by a Moscow spy," and, "[i]n a second compromise...a more recent inadvertent disclosure resulted in references to Mrs. Plame in confidential documents sent by the CIA to the U.S. Interests Section of the Swiss Embassy in Havana."[16]

              3.Libby's lawyer says he had multiple witnesses that knew her identity. Unfortunately, this didn't go to trial so he would have to show his hand.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 6:56 pm ET)
                   

                one, there was no reason to believe that brewster jennings was anything but a legitimate company in 2000.  a contribution to al gore did not reveal her identity.   two, your links to the washington times and gertz don't go anywhere but to general pages of information.  i'm going to have to see more than some "anonymous sources" in the moonie times.  three, if those witnesses exist, why are they not all over fox news now?  you don't think the right wing would have them talking in public?    one, two, three strikes you're out, at the old posting game.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by wolf kotenberg (July 19, 2007 8:50 pm ET)
               

            How the heck do you know she was not covert ? If she was covert and you didn't know it, then she was successfull at being covert, right

            Report Abuse
      • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 2:25 pm ET)
           

        Teddy the of the Progressive Bull Moose Party who left The Republican Party in disgust? Yeah, Bully.

        I don't care what you believe or belittle but it is an indisputable fact that Valerie Wilson was a covert agent for the CIA and had traveled over seas in that capacity within the five year time frame to make her outing illegal. These are facts, not conjecture or opinion. They are verified by statements made by the CIA, the Justice Department and in sworn testimony of White House aids during Scooter's trial.

        But that you would mock something so vital to national security because it's politically convenient makes you just as much a traitor as the vice President. Hope your proud, conservative.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by mefirst (July 18, 2007 11:53 pm ET)
         

      rove, and libby, did what they were accused of doing from the beginning.  they gave the name of a covert agent to unauthorized persons.  it's those who issued denials that they did it who turned out to be wrong.  not the other way around.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (July 19, 2007 12:37 am ET)
           

        I'd watched Scarborough a few times a while back, and it almost seemed like he was starting to pay attention to what was going on. He was still a Republican, but was showing the occasional independent thought.

        The bum-kissing of Novak above as a great reporter, well, I think Joe has been sleeping more than I gave him credit for.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by wolf kotenberg (July 19, 2007 11:53 am ET)
             

          Mr Scarborough and Mr Mathews ( to a lesser degree ) seem to realise their prime time tv days are numbered if they continue blindly toe the party in power line. These GOP Bobbleheads might just end up GOP Dinosaurs.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 1:18 pm ET)
           

        Plame was about as covert as Mikey Mouse. If you think for one moment that a staffer at the white house knows the names of all of the covert CIA agents...your stoned. If you don't know that the CIA can keep its covert agents identity's secret your stupid. If you don't know that Wilson and his wife were known by almost everyone in the DC social circles you have not been paying attention. Wilson him self told many friends his wife worked at the CIA as those friends now admit. If you don't know that this whole mess is smear politics and nothing more then your probably a Democrat.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 2:11 pm ET)
             

          could you name one of those friends?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 2:55 pm ET)
               

            Maj. Gen. Paul Vallely told WorldNetDaily that Wilson mentioned Plame's status as a CIA employee over the course of at least three, possibly five, conversations in 2002 in D.C., as they waited to appear on air as analysts. Vallely says, according to his recollection, Wilson mentioned his wife's job in the spring of 2002 -- more than a year before Robert Novak's July 14, 2003, column identified her, citing senior administration officials, as "an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction."

            Report Abuse
            • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 3:06 pm ET)
                 

              you said friends.  i figured you would come up with his name.  and what is the evidence that he is telling the truth?  none.

              Report Abuse
            • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 3:23 pm ET)
                 

              Right Tweaker. Despite the CIA stating otherwise, the Justice Department stating otherwise. This guys claim contradicts the facts laid out by the CIA. If you want to get into hypotheticals, why did the CIA ask the Justice Department to look into who outed their covert agent working on WMD proliferation in the Middle East AND her front company? 

               

              Report Abuse
        • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 2:20 pm ET)
             

          It is a fact Tweaker. The CIA has said so. Try to make light of it all you want, facts are facts. Vice President Cheney had the clearance to learn the information and then passed it on to subordinates to leak.

          Either that or 2 different directors of the CIA, the Ashcroft Justice Department and White House staffers all lied.

          The fact that you can't accept this basic and proven FACT,makes all of your arguments illegitimate.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 2:32 pm ET)
             

          Tweaker you are a proven liar,

          now you are regurgitating disproved  talking points.

          I'm calling you out. Rectify your statements or face severe mocking! 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 3:18 pm ET)
               

            Bing, have you been on that bong again....

            CNN interview........

            BLITZER: But the other argument that's been made against you is that you've sought to capitalize on this extravaganza, having that photo shoot with your wife, who was a clandestine officer of the CIA, and that you've tried to enrich yourself writing this book and all of that.What do you make of those accusations, which are serious accusations, as you know, that have been leveled against you?WILSON: My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.BLITZER: But she hadn't been a clandestine officer for some time before that?WILSON: That's not anything that I can talk about. And, indeed, I'll go back to what I said earlier, the CIA believed that a possible crime had been committed, and that's why they referred it to the Justice Department. She was not a clandestine officer at the time that that article in "Vanity Fair" appeared. And I have every right to have the American public know who I am and not to have myself defined by those who would write the sorts of things that are coming out, being spewed out of the mouths of the RNC...BLITZER: Who did you vote for in 2000?WILSON: In 2000? I voted for Al Gore. In 1992, I voted for George Bush.BLITZER: The first President George... WILSON: That's correct.

            If you have info to the contrary please present it as I am ready to believe it, I said before this whole thing is a non-story. Political only.  I here a judge in one of he latest Plame law suits just tossed the case in the dumpster.

            If you know more than husband Joe me thinks you may have bedded the lovely Mrs Plame...........Im envious.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 3:30 pm ET)
                 

              She wasn't clandestine at the time of the Vanity Fair article because she was outed by Robert Novak's column some months before.

              Read it carefully it doesn't say what you think it does.

              My source is exactly what I have been telling you all along.

              The CIA, the Justice Department, the transcript of Scooter's trial.

              Before Vallerie's testimony before Congress the CIA was there in the room to make sure no other still classified information was revealed and the Head of the CIA signed off on the accuracy of the statement that Valerie was a covert agent at the timeof her outing. In short, I trust the source of the information. Not conjecture, not other people's opinions and certainly not this tripe you presented from the Wolf Blitzer comedy hour.  You are clinging to a couple of irrelevant pieces that you apparently don't even comprehend correctly.  

              Report Abuse
            • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 3:34 pm ET)
                 

              you are trying to say that wilson said plame was not covert at the time of novak's column.  what he clearly meant, and has explained, is that she no longer was because novak "blew her identity".   it's very clear.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 3:36 pm ET)
                   

                It's amazing at how deeply some can be convinced of something and cling to the weakest of evidence and overlook the glaring obvious facts to do so isn't it. A quote from Wilson on a talk show and another's recollection some how trumps a criminal investigation, the CIA and the Justice Department.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 3:40 pm ET)
                     

                  You have convinced me........she was covert. I have been schooled by the best.

                  Report Abuse
            • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 3:36 pm ET)
                 

              Breaking news.......Plame law suit against the Bushies...Rove, Libby, Cheney tossed out.

              Loud sobs along with the gnashing of teeth can be heard from coast to coast.

              Judge had to be in the pocket of the defendants. Halliburton link expected.

              Harry Reid vows to hold hearings that no one will watch. Nancy out of country on communist block country tour.

              Plame fiasco said to be on life support at Johns Hopkins hospital.

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              • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 3:42 pm ET)
                   

                None of that changes the facts Tweaker and it is sad that you would applaud such an obvious and blatant abuse of power that compromised our national security. 

                You can't dispute the facts but you still ignore them.

                It truly is a sad day for justice, the constitution and America.  But the case being dismissed doesn't change the facts. If you wish to remain ignorant so be it. But if you were a real American concerned with the rule of law you'd be pissed. If your not, your no better than the traitors who outed her.

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                • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 3:52 pm ET)
                     

                  If I could fix it I would. I simply refuse to waste any emotional capital on this type of political nonsense. I am confident that the CIA still has the capacity to function as well as it did when Plame was an employee or agent of that entity. Everything I see, hear and read her statis at that time was NOC.

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                  • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 3:55 pm ET)
                       

                    so it's "political nonsense" that a covert agent was outed.   and since outing an agent does no damage, then why do we go to the effort we do to keep them covert?  do you understand the meaning of covert?

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                    • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 4:06 pm ET)
                         

                      and apparently you misunderstand the term "noc".   gee you think, non official cover.  but that is actually the deepest cover because those agents have no "official" connection to their agency.  instead they pose as employees of front companies, as plame did with brewster jennings. 

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                    • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 4:17 pm ET)
                         

                      Please, OK, lets say Plame was covert. The job the CIA done or their policy's allow, and the actions of Mrs. Plame up until her outing were worse than worst Keystone Kops episode.

                      You would have to believe a punk staffer at the white house has direct contact with the highest levels of the CIA.

                      That Novak is clairvoyant and a magician to boot.

                      Rove and crew hate Wilson, the feeling is mutual, these are the games they play and always will. If you think crap like this does not happen all of the time or some day when your candidate is in the white house it will suddenly stop they you are very young and can look forward to a long an miserable life if you let this stuff upset you in a major way.

                       

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                      • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 4:25 pm ET)
                           

                        Well you should really familiarize yourself with the case. It's well beyond just politics. According to the CIA she was team leader in a front company called Brewster Jennings that was involved directly with wmd proliferation in the middle East. Much of her work is still classified and the CIA will not comment at how badly their intelligence gathering capabilities were compromised but former CIA members have stated publicly that there is a strong likely hood that many contacts were killed and without a doubt the ability to recruit foreign nationals to be seriously compromised.

                        Incidentally, Ambassador Joe Wilson was called an American Hero by Bush's father for his efforts to rescue Americans in Baghdad in the run up to the first Gulf War. 

                        George Sr. also said that outing a covert CIA agent was the worst form of treason. It's no wonder he never got along with Rumsfeld, Cheny or Wolfowitz. 

                        This isn't merely a political matter, it's treason. Our own government outed a covert agent, seemingly for purely political reasons. If this isn't serious then what is? 

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                        • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 4:45 pm ET)
                             

                          Treason can carry the death penilty...who would you have your government kill?

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by therick (July 19, 2007 11:43 pm ET)
                               

                            You have finally sickened me.

                            Joe Wilson was reporting facts that we now know to be true.

                            HOW ILL ARE YOU TO FAIL TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IF HE WEREN'T DEMONIZED BY YOUR MACHINE, WE COULD HAVE THREE THOUSAND, SIX-HUNDRED PLUS MORE TROOPS DEFENDING US AGAINST REAL THREATS?  These young men and women are no longer living.  Their families only have pictures and memories.  Joe Wilson tried to stop this from happening, and you spit on him EVEN THOUGH HE WAS RIGHT.

                            You know what the true facts are, you just don't want to believe them because that would mean that Bush was wrong about going to war with Iraq.  Worse yet, those Democrats were  right!

                            Let me clue you in on something--BUSH LIED ABOUT IRAQ, AND YOU WERE ONE OF THOSE TOO STUPID TO REALIZE IT.  SHAME ON YOU AGAIN.

                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 4:45 pm ET)
                           

                        so karl rove, bush's right hand man, is a "punk staffer"?  and libby too?   you reveal your ignorance with every post.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 4:47 pm ET)
                             

                          I thought you would like that...thank me very much.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 5:04 pm ET)
                               

                            what can i say?   some people just prefer to be deliberately ignorant.   and your attempts at wit are, well, just attempts.   better luck next time. 

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by tweakthetroll (July 19, 2007 5:27 pm ET)
                                 

                              Why are progressives mad and in pissy moods ALL of the time? Don't answer, I am going to the beach.

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by mefirst (July 19, 2007 6:10 pm ET)
                                   

                                who's in a pissy mood?  helping you make a jackass out of yourself is fun.

                                Report Abuse
    • Author by ulmew12348959 (July 19, 2007 12:52 am ET)
         

      I tried to comment on this earlier with a hypothetical transcript of the alleged conversation between rove and libby. the uncensored version is on my website

      Rove: That obstructively annoying Joseph Wilson...Libby: What are you on about now, Karl?Rove: Wilson has to go to the press and tell them that there is no connection between saddam and yellowcake uranium from africa.Libby: Well, WE sent him there to find out, didnt we?Rove: I, I mean the White House, didnt want him sent. Your office didnt send him, and the DCI didnt pick him to go and check it out.Libby: Well then how did this guy who isnt on board with the iraq agenda end up investigating a cornerstone of the war pitch.Rove: His overbearing wife sent him. Career CIA bureaucrat, that one. Nonofficial Cover Operative specializing in the tracking of Weapons of Mass Destruction across international borders. Overqualified, overprivileged, ethics worshipping paper pusher who believes the words written on the wall at langley arent meant to be an inside joke, a sardonic comment on the necessity of their existence and the work that they do.Libby: I have never been there, what words are you talking about?Rove; This is where a photographic memory comes in handy. "And Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free"Libby: (laughing hysterically) someone should do something to make sure this doesnt cause us any more problems. I dont want my boss having another heart attack when halliburton's stock tanks because we dont go to war with iraq.Rove: Well, he went to the media on US...having dinner with anyone soon? Novak anyone in the press who would present a friendly spin and protect her sources to the point of serving time?Libby: I have no idea what you are talking about. See ya later, buddy, I gotta go dig up my old rolodex.Rove: There's my good soldier. no wonder they call you "cheney's cheney"Libby: Well, YOU are Bush's BrainRove; that's not sayin' much (chuckling)

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    • Author by chuck prentiss (July 19, 2007 12:59 am ET)
         

      Since Karl Rove was Novak's second, confirming source; and since Libby's lying under oath prevented the special prosecutor from being able to determine whether Cheney had orchestrated a coordinated effort to out Valerie Plame -- then, what on Earth is Joe Scarborough talking about? Is Joe out to lunch again?

      Chuck Prentiss Fort Lauderdale, FL

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    • Author by Uosdwis (July 19, 2007 7:49 am ET)
         

      And more grist for the mill on Thursday's show. At one point, Scarborough says Wilson's book is a "pack of lies." Is that not actionable?

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    • Author by tex (July 19, 2007 9:05 am ET)
         

      ROVE "confirmed" Plame's CIA identity to Novak.

      In so doing, he violated his oath to protect classified information from unauthorized persons. He violated National Security, by undermining our intelligence operations. He aided America's enemies.

      His only reason for doing these things was petty political pique, because he and Bush were attempting to LIE to the world, and Joe Wilson blew the whistle on their lies. At root, this whole incident was about DECEIVING the American People and the world, in order to have a "pre-emptive" war which they knew had nothing to "pre-empt". This, in turn, violates international law and was not only immoral but illegal.

      This is a thoroughly corrupt administration, and Rove is in the middle of it all. A final VIOLATION of trust was that Bush assured the American People that he WANTED to know who "was involved" in this leaking, and that they would be fired. Bush lied on both counts; he did NOTHING to try to discover the leaker(s), and had no intention of firing anybody, no matter WHAT they have done in violating oaths, laws, and national security. In truth, they were probably doing all this on his orders, which would explain why he overruled RULE OF LAW and commuted Libby's sentence, to cover his own culpability.

      It's well past time to impeach and remove these crooks from office, first Cheney, then Bush. Even with their veil of secrecy, there is enough KNOW NOW as FACT to easily convict these horrid human beings. 

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    • Author by nerzog (July 19, 2007 9:35 am ET)
         

      "If Karl Rove leaked this information, he should be fired. "

      Oh, yeah....Bush is gonna fire Rove? I guarantee you that Rove has a file on every member of the Bush administration...tucked away in a safe deposit box somewhere. He's left instructions with his law firm that if he's found floating in the Potomac, these files are to be released. What's in the files? Enough dirt to put the whole bunch behind bars for 200 years. You know it's true.

      These people are crooks and war criminals. Unfortunately, the press WILL NOT do what must be done. The crusading reporters of "All the President's Men" are a distant, fading memory. They've been replaced by millionaire stenographers.

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    • Author by ellington (July 19, 2007 9:51 am ET)
         

      Is it too much to ask that MSNBC's morning anchor have the basic facts of this case right before he interviews one of the key players?

      If you're going to pretend to be a journalist, at least try to get a little beyond the right wing spin.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by nerzog (July 19, 2007 11:57 am ET)
           

        Joe is a puzzlement. He's apparently left the reservation on the Iraq War, but on most other subjects, he still likes reading from the GOP script.

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    • Author by wolf kotenberg (July 19, 2007 11:58 am ET)
         

      Rove is credited with advancing the government model of republican Forever style of leadership. Putting alll this bs aside, that is synonimous with dictatorship, a model that Cheney favors and seems to seek, by his secretive actions. They both have that sinister look.

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    • Author by unhipcat (July 19, 2007 12:25 pm ET)
         

      Joe Scarborough and Robert Novak are both liars. Armitage is "the leaker"? They base that claim on the supposed fact that Novak received Plame's name from Armitage. A simple time-line shows that both these men, among uncountable others, are dishonest.

      Novak has stated that Armitage told him about Plame on July 8, 2003.

      Judith Miller says that Libby told her about Plame on June 23, 2003.

      June comes before July on my calendar.

       

       

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      • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 2:28 pm ET)
           

        But technically we don't know if Armitage, Rove, or Liby knew of her covert status when they were leaking her name to the press. The only player in this who had the clearance was Cheney which makes him the traitor. He knew she was covert, the CIA asked him not to leak her name, and he directed subordinates to do so. They may have been totally unaware of her covert status.

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        • Author by john henry (July 19, 2007 2:34 pm ET)
             

          Yes we dont know if they knew of her covert status. But we do know they all AT BEST gave the information to the press without knowing if she was covert. See if I dont look before shooting a gun through your bedroom door I am innocent of the death of your wife.  Also I am clearly the only person you can trust to protect the rest of YOUR family because I have proven how careful and capable  I am.  

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          • Author by bingvangorden (July 19, 2007 3:33 pm ET)
               

            Oh I agree. I'm just speaking on the legality and the provability. If they didn't have clearance, and they didn't, it's difficult to prove they knew of her status.

            Report Abuse
    • Author by john henry (July 19, 2007 2:28 pm ET)
         

      it is really just that liberals are not logical.  If a firing squad executes someone it is only the shooter whoose bullit first hits that is the killer. Everyone else is innocent and wholly uninvolved including the captain who gave the order.  there has also been this misunderstanding about Armitage. Many commies suggest that just because he was appointed to a high position in the administration by Bush, was one of the few signers of the PNAC letter of 1998, was involved in the Iran Contra matter  and owns a private security company doing work in Iraq-- that this means he is a neocon.  See how dumb the libs are.  Good thing the dumb libs arent running the country huh? 

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      • Author by neondesert (July 19, 2007 4:15 pm ET)
           

        Really?  Is that firing squad thing true?  Because, I'm thinking that it's just possible that the first bullet alone might not have killed the guy, nor the second.  It might have taken three or four bullets to kill the guy, no?

        Regardless, having a security clearance means not turning over information to anybody unless you're sure that they have a need for it, and they are authorized to receive it.  Notice that there's nothing in there about "not knowing the classification of the material" nor "thinking someone else already gave them the info".  And while the Wilson case may be LEGALLY ambiguous, I guarantee you that Armitage, Libby, Rove, and anyone else involved would lose their clearances and their jobs immediately, if they were peons working for DOD.

        I think you probably realize the ethical failings of the same GOP pinheads you defend, but you don't even have the honor to put your partisanship behind you when it comes to the security of your country.  You must be so proud of yourself.

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        • Author by john henry (July 19, 2007 6:07 pm ET)
             

          It is absolutely true in the current world of the Libby apologists if we can call them that. That is th world of truth. You are deluded by your reason and facts.  Learn to accept the world of convenient slogans and talking points.

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    • Author by john henry (July 19, 2007 6:21 pm ET)
         

      to neondessert-  it seems that the legal ambiguity of the matter was engineered into the scheme from the start. I also think the leakers thought that it was unlikely the press would be required to disclose their sources. If that failed well then by not checking first they create a defense to the narrow statute. If that failed then there was always the pardon although of course it would have been ideal to be in a position to wait until after the 2008 election to give him the pardon.  I really do not believe that the majority of the Libby apologists think that the whitehouse was not going after Wilson and thought that more important than keeping the information about her and Brewster Jennings secret. Rather I think that they really just agree with the whitehouse. Anything to assure we get the war we want and retain the power to appoint judges, cut taxes, make the homos toe the line, keep Terry Schiavo alive for eternity and what ever else is critical in their minds. In other words I dont think most are making these arguments in good faith. I certainly do not expect they would fail to understand the connection between obstruction of justice and the difficulty of proving an underlying crime ever again in any other context. 

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      • Author by neondesert (July 19, 2007 6:45 pm ET)
           

        I've been arguing with a caricature.  How embarrassing. :-)

        I'll just attempt to save face by admitting I was duped, and that I recognize that we're pretty much eye to eye on this one, though I question your assertion that the whole thing went as planned.  I don't think they plan that far ahead, and most of the successful damage control we've seen is a mixture of convenience, coincidence, and much less, cleverness.

        Oh well, fool me once, shame on...  shame on you.  Fool me....won't get fooled again.

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        • Author by therick (July 19, 2007 11:52 pm ET)
             

          Give yourself a break--that 'fool me' thing is kinda funny.  Did you just make that up?

          ; )

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