Rothenberg detects inconsistency in Obama's different views of distinct situations
An August 2 Los Angeles Times article reported Sen. Barack Obama's (D-IL) statement in an August 1 foreign policy speech at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars that "[i]f we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets [in Pakistan] and President Musharraf won't act, we will." The article went on to quote Stuart Rothenberg, publisher of the Rothenberg Political Report, saying of Obama's speech: "It's tough to criticize the Bush administration for unilateralism in Iraq, then say you'd be unilateral in Pakistan." Rothenberg did not explain his apparent position that two entirely different situations -- Iraq was a sovereign country that was not involved in the 9-11 attacks, while a recent National Intelligence Estimate (NIE), which Obama cited, indicated that Al Qaeda, which did attack the United States on 9-11, is gaining strength along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border -- call for the same policy. Indeed, in his speech, Obama made the difference clear, saying that President Bush "elevates al Qaeda in Iraq -- which didn't exist before our invasion -- and overlooks the people who hit us on 9/11, who are training new recruits in Pakistan."
From the August 2 Los Angeles Times article:
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama said Wednesday that the United States should reserve the right to invade the territory of its Pakistani allies and withdraw U.S. financial aid if it believed Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf was failing to do enough to stop terrorists.
"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will," Obama said in an address at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars here. "I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America."
[...]
But whereas Obama's 40-minute speech repositioned him on combating terrorists -- which voters now identify as their top concern -- it also opened him up to potential criticism from liberal Democrats who have provided much of his primary-season support.
"For progressive Democrats who want a more peaceful leadership in the world shown by our next president, [Obama's speech] fails the threshold of getting us out of picking fights in the Mideast, and discarding the Bush doctrine of preemptive attacks," Jerome Armstrong, an influential liberal blogger, wrote shortly after the speech.
Stuart Rothenberg, publisher of the nonpartisan Rothenberg Political Report, said that Obama had previously emphasized his opposition to the "unilateralism" of President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. "It's tough to criticize the Bush administration for unilateralism in Iraq, then say you'd be unilateral in Pakistan," he said. "I'm wondering if some people are going to jump on him."
In his speech, however, Obama cited the recently released NIE in noting that the "threat to our homeland from al Qaeda is 'persistent and evolving,' " adding: "Iraq is a training ground for terror, torn apart by civil war. Afghanistan is more violent than it has been since 2001. Al Qaeda has a sanctuary in Pakistan." Obama went on to contrast Al Qaeda's current presence in Pakistan with Iraq, where Al Qaeda was not present prior to the U.S.-led invasion in 2003:
Just because the President misrepresents our enemies does not mean we do not have them. The terrorists are at war with us. The threat is from violent extremists who are a small minority of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims, but the threat is real. They distort Islam. They kill man, woman and child; Christian and Hindu, Jew and Muslim. They seek to create a repressive caliphate. To defeat this enemy, we must understand who we are fighting against, and what we are fighting for.
The President would have us believe that every bomb in Baghdad is part of al Qaeda's war against us, not an Iraqi civil war. He elevates al Qaeda in Iraq -- which didn't exist before our invasion -- and overlooks the people who hit us on 9/11, who are training new recruits in Pakistan. He lumps together groups with very different goals: al Qaeda and Iran, Shiite militias and Sunni insurgents. He confuses our mission.
Moreover, while quoting Rothenberg on Obama's purported "unilateralism," the Times failed to report that Obama repeatedly stressed the need to work with foreign governments and foreign armies in combating terrorism:
It is time to turn the page. When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world's most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; restoring our values; and securing a more resilient homeland.
[...]
As President, I would deploy at least two additional brigades to Afghanistan to re-enforce our counter-terrorism operations and support NATO's efforts against the Taliban. As we step up our commitment, our European friends must do the same, and without the burdensome restrictions that have hampered NATO's efforts. We must also put more of an Afghan face on security by improving the training and equipping of the Afghan Army and Police, and including Afghan soldiers in U.S. and NATO operations.
[...]
I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America. This requires a broader set of capabilities, as outlined in the Army and Marine Corps's new counter-insurgency manual. I will ensure that our military becomes more stealth, agile, and lethal in its ability to capture or kill terrorists. We need to recruit, train, and equip our armed forces to better target terrorists, and to help foreign militaries to do the same. This must include a program to bolster our ability to speak different languages, understand different cultures, and coordinate complex missions with our civilian agencies.
[...]
This cannot just be an American mission. Al Qaeda and its allies operate in nearly 100 countries. The United States cannot steal every secret, penetrate every cell, act on every tip, or track down every terrorist -- nor should we have to do this alone. This is not just about our security. It is about the common security of all the world.















Obama's tough talk against Pakistan will indeed promote an unsettled feeling among the left base of his party......including many here, undoubtedly. I applaud his stance, actually.
And I agree, Rothenberg appears to making an inconsistency that is not really there regarding unilateralism with respect to Iraq and Pakistan.
Me too. I'm totally OK with him "shakin' the tree, boss!". It makes the democrats question themselves again. Great!
Off topic, but where is the thread talking about how the bridge in minneapolis indicates a larger problem with the poor, neglected condition of US infrastructure in general?
Regarding the MN tragedy, I know that Bruce lives in Minnesota and I haven't seen him post today....certainly we all hope that neither he nor is family is personally affected with any loss or injury. It is very sad indeed.
As for the politics of it being underfunded, that's for another time, for me.
It's not underfunded, we just need to let the free market work its magic. ;-)
You are free to politicize a tragedy less than a day after it occurred, if it makes you feel better.
But I have no intention of such disrespect, sorry.
OMFG. Ok, Mr. Sense of Humor. You're the only one who gets to joke around on MMFA. I didn't do so at the expense of the victims.
I was right, you really do need to get a life.
I certainly don't wish ill on Bruce, but Tommy, too late. It's already being politicized.
Just remember though, there's a big difference between trying to understand why it happened and pointing the finger. It's just that finger pointing will be inevitable.
I am now watching Glenn Beck, 1st out of the gate, politicizing the bridge collapse. 6:00 in Texas right now, and I just lost my beer buzz...
Yeabut, IOKIYAR
followed by Bush using the bridge collapse as a way to attack democrats...
And here's Hardball cashing in on the blame democrats 1st brigade....
I didnt know he lived there. I sure hope he wasnt effected by this tradgedy
I know where Bruce lives and that bridge wouldn't be a logical route for him to take to or from a job almost regardless of where he works around here. My office is less than two miles from the bridge (it's an incredible sight in person) but I almost never use it myself.
Of course, I know there are reasons other than driving to and from work that could put him on that bridge, but I think the chances are small.
Just as a postscript, my daughter moved to a new apartment last weekend and expected to be using that bridge regularly to get to and from work. Part of the appeal of the new apartment was its proximity to her job. That commute has just gotten more complicated for her.
She crossed the bridge almost an hour before it fell.
Bill, glad to hear your family is safe. It's another moment in time where we will all remember where we were when we heard the news.
Thanks everyone for your kind words. Bill's right, I don't take that bridge on any regular basis, probably hadn't crossed it in well over a year. But thanks for asking.
"Off topic, but where is the thread talking about how the bridge in minneapolis indicates a larger problem with the poor, neglected condition of US infrastructure in general"
It sure didn't take you long to politicize a non-political story. What's next? Are you going to blame Bush for your dog biting you?
Oh trust me, this was already being politicized before I ever posted. Nice try at redirection though.
Darn it, I need to read his speech, but I'm work. The reaction to it is really starting to snowball, but I don't want to stick my foot in my mouth when I participate.
that's *at* work, LOL.
You should read it or watch it on CSPAN. The media is distorting Obama mercilessly. I am amazed how Hillary gets by with her supposed "experience"...when all that experience led her to vote to authorize the Iraq war...without reading the NIE. The media is frankly crooked.
Well that is fairly speculative, I am pretty lefty and I completely agree we go after those kinds of terrorists when they carve out a fiefdom, especially al Queda who DID attack us and who we can claim legitimatly to be at war with. I dont know very many lefties seriously who opposed going after al Queda.
"I applaud his stance, actually"
But do you really think that it would be a good idea to invade a sovereign nation that is our ally in the War on Terror?
Some friggin' ally.
You're kidding right Rino?
Pakistan has done absolutely nothing to help us in our efforts to capture the most culpabale figure in the biggest terrorist attack against the US.
"[i]f we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets [in Pakistan] and President Musharraf won't act, we will."
I more than likely won't vote for him, but that was a great quote.
You've got a whole year still. I hope you aren't giving in so quickly...
Obama gonna bomb Pakistan! Yee-haw! Gonna kill us moslems for oil and Israel!
"I will not hesitate to use military force to take out terrorists who pose a direct threat to America."
Sounds right to me. This is unlike our current President Numbnuts, who invaded a country that did not pose a direct threat to America. I don't see the problem with Obama's position. If the government of the country where the terrorists are hiding won't cooperate, go around them or through them, hit the terrorists...THEN GET THE HELL OUT.
And, as we've repeatedly told the Troglodytes, it IS possible to do surgical strikes on Terrorists without decimating the country they happen to be in. It just takes a little more thought...something conspicuously absent from the current administration.
Too Far
Regardless of the criticism, Barack Obama is taking the Hawk attitude too far. At a time when we have the most aggressive president in the history of our country, the last thing we need is a, to use his own words, "Bush Chaney light" replacing what we have now.
There are many ways to "skin a cat" and anything looking remotely like what we are going through will turn voters off. Middle of the road politics are also ill advised in a climate in which conservatives may be voted out in large numbers. Their philosophy is flawed.
Obama was running as the "fresh" candidate with new approaches. He is abandoning his voting appeal in hopes of pulling in votes that are more conservative. Dam conservative votes. They would not vote for him in significant numbers if their lives depended on it.
JosephObama was running as the "fresh" candidate with new approaches.
That's precisely what interested me about him at first. With his increasingly hawkish stance, my interest is quickly waning.
It's realtively easy to use military force "if needed." Charting a path that avoids that result is far more difficult. Without more focus on the latter, the former is inevitable.