Hannity repeatedly mischaracterized Obama remarks, accused him of "political missteps"
SUMMARY: On Hannity & Colmes, Sean Hannity repeatedly mischaracterized Barack Obama's recent statements about the war in Afghanistan, the use of force against terrorists in Pakistan, and the use of nuclear weapons.
On the August 14 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes, co-host Sean Hannity repeatedly mischaracterized remarks by Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL), first during an interview with Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney and later during an interview with Chicago Tribune reporter David Mendell, author of the new book Obama: From Promise to Power (Amistad, August 2007).
- While interviewing Romney, Hannity played a video clip of Obama's August 13 campaign appearance in Nashua, New Hampshire, during which Obama said, "We've got to get the job done there [in Afghanistan] and that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous pressure over there." During the interview with Mendell, Hannity referred to Obama's purported "political missteps" and characterized Obama as "accusing" U.S. forces of "air-raiding villages and killing civilians." However, U.S. airstrikes in Afghanistan -- and accounts of resulting civilian casualties -- have been widely reported in the media and have reportedly provoked criticism from Afghan President Hamid Karzai and a British commander stationed there. The Associated Press reported in a "Fact Check" responding to conservative attacks on Obama that "Western forces have been killing civilians at a faster rate than the insurgents."
- Hannity claimed that Obama has stated his "willingness to invade an ally against their will," referring to Pakistan. However, as Media Matters for America repeatedly noted, Obama never said he would "invade Pakistan." Rather, Obama stated in an August 1 speech: "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets [in Pakistan] and President [Pervez] Musharraf won't act, we will."
- Hannity also claimed that Obama has said "he would take away the nuclear deterrent that we've had in this country" and later claimed that Obama said he would use nuclear weapons "under no conditions." However, Obama actually said he would not use nuclear weapons "in any circumstance" to fight terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan, specifically.
Air strikes and civilian deaths in Afghanistan
During the interview with Romney, Hannity prefaced the video of Obama's August 13 comments in New Hampshire by asserting, "One of the big controversies emerging today are the comments of Barack Obama, and I want to play this for our audience because I think this is very critical. He's now made a number of misstatements in the last number of days." After playing the video, Romney asserted: "It's an extraordinary statement, a disappointing statement. He's now -- how many times -- three or four or five times said many things that he must badly recognize as being a huge error, bad misstatements." Later, during the interview with Mendell, Hannity again played the video of Obama's comments and asked, "Would you think he's making some political missteps here?" Mendell replied: "I think he would like to have some of those comments back. I think he's been, yeah, a little bit all over the place with his foreign policy. He's doing a lot of talking out there on the stump. This is something that he's not done before in a presidential campaign. So he seems to be making a few missteps with his speeches." However, as the AP reported in its "Fact Check," "Western forces have been killing civilians at a faster rate than the insurgents," a trend that reportedly led Karzai to "express[] his concern about the civilian deaths" during a recent meeting with President Bush. From the August 14 AP article:
"We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there," Obama said.
[...]
A check of the facts shows that Western forces have been killing civilians at a faster rate than the insurgents have been killing civilians.
The U.S. and NATO say they don't have civilian casualty figures, but The Associated Press has been keeping count based on figures from Afghan and international officials. Tracking civilian deaths is a difficult task because they often occur in remote and dangerous areas that are difficult to reach and verify.
As of Aug. 1, the AP count shows that while militants killed 231 civilians in attacks in 2007, Western forces killed 286. Another 20 were killed in crossfire that can't be attributed to one party.
Afghan President Hamid Karzai expressed his concern about the civilian deaths during a meeting last week with President Bush.
Bush said he understands the agony that Afghans feel over the loss of innocent lives and that he is doing everything he can to protect them. He said the Taliban are using civilians as human shields and have no regard for their lives.
"The president rightly expressed his concerns about civilian casualty," Bush said of Karzai. "And I assured him that we share those concerns."
Further, in a July 7 article on NATO and U.S. airstrikes reported to have killed more than 100 Afghan civilians, Reuters cited the assessment of military analysts that "a shortage of ground troops means commanders often turn to air power":
President Hamid Karzai has repeatedly called for the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and the separate U.S. force in Afghanistan to coordinate more closely with his troops to curb a spate of civilian deaths from airstrikes.
But Western unwillingness to accept casualties among their own soldiers and a shortage of ground troops means commanders often turn to air power to beat the Taliban, and that almost inevitably leads to civilians deaths, military analysts say.
Casualties are also boosting Taliban numbers, analysts say.
Action against terrorists in Pakistan
Hannity also claimed that Obama has stated his "willingness to invade an ally against their will," referring to Pakistan. However, Obama never said he would "invade an ally against their will." Rather, he stated in an August 1 speech that "Al Qaeda has a sanctuary in Pakistan," adding that "[t]he first step must be getting off the wrong battlefield in Iraq, and taking the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan." Obama went on to assert: "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets [in Pakistan] and President Musharraf won't act, we will," but he did not elaborate on the nature of this action. Obama has since pointed out that he "never called for an invasion of Pakistan." From his August 1 speech:
As president, I would make the hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional, and I would make our conditions clear: Pakistan must make substantial progress in closing down the training camps, evicting foreign fighters, and preventing the Taliban from using Pakistan as a staging area for attacks in Afghanistan.
I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an Al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.
And Pakistan needs more than F-16s to combat extremism. As the Pakistani government increases investment in secular education to counter radical madrasas, my administration will increase America's commitment. We must help Pakistan invest in the provinces along the Afghan border, so that the extremists' program of hate is met with one of hope. And we must not turn a blind eye to elections that are neither free nor fair -- our goal is not simply an ally in Pakistan, it is a democratic ally.
[...]
According to the National Intelligence Estimate, the threat to our homeland from al Qaeda is "persistent and evolving." Iraq is a training ground for terror, torn apart by civil war. Afghanistan is more violent than it has been since 2001. Al Qaeda has a sanctuary in Pakistan. Israel is besieged by emboldened enemies, talking openly of its destruction. Iran is now presenting the broadest strategic challenge to the United States in the Middle East in a generation. Groups affiliated with or inspired by al Qaeda operate worldwide. Six years after 9/11, we are again in the midst of a "summer of threat," with bin Laden and many more terrorists determined to strike in the United States.
[...]
It is time to turn the page. When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world's most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; restoring our values; and securing a more resilient homeland.
The first step must be getting off the wrong battlefield in Iraq, and taking the fight to the terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
The nuclear option
Speaking with Romney, Hannity asserted that Obama "would take away the nuclear deterrent that we've had in this country." Hannity later told Mendell that Obama stated "under no conditions" would he use nuclear weapons. Hannity was apparently referring to Obama's statement during an August 2 interview with the AP that "it would be a profound mistake for us to use nuclear weapons in any circumstance." However, Hannity did not note that Obama was responding to a question specifically regarding whether he would use nuclear weapons to fight terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Indeed, according to a transcript of the interview obtained by Politico senior political writer Ben Smith, Obama was asked, "In Afghanistan or Pakistan, is there any circumstance where you would be prepared or willing to use nuclear weapons to defeat terrorism and Osama bin Laden?" From the AP article on the interview:
Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said Thursday he would not use nuclear weapons "in any circumstance" to fight terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
"I think it would be a profound mistake for us to use nuclear weapons in any circumstance," Obama said, with a pause, "involving civilians." Then he quickly added, "Let me scratch that. There's been no discussion of nuclear weapons. That's not on the table."
Obama was responding to a question by the Associated Press about whether there was any circumstance where he would be prepared or willing to use nuclear weapons to defeat terrorism and al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.
"There's been no discussion of using nuclear weapons and that's not a hypothetical that I'm going to discuss," Obama said after a Capitol Hill breakfast with constituents.
From the August 14 edition of Fox News' Hannity & Colmes:
HANNITY: One of the big controversies emerging today are the comments of Barack Obama, and I want to play this for our audience because I think this is very critical. He's now made a number of misstatements in the last number of days. But let's roll this tape about what he had to say about our troops air-raiding villages and killing civilians.
OBAMA [video clip]: But we've got to get the job done there. And that requires us to have enough troops that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there.
HANNITY: What's your reaction to that, Governor?
ROMNEY: It's an extraordinary statement, a disappointing statement. He's now -- how many times -- three or four or five times said many things that he must badly recognize as being a huge error, bad misstatements. I think he's, in some respects, shown that he just hasn't given his words careful enough thought. And I think it's dispiriting to our troops, it is disrespectful of our troops to say such a thing. The only people who say things like that are people on the other side of this issue.
HANNITY: Well, let me ask you this. He said without preconditions he'd meet with people like Kim Jong Il, Ahmadinejad. Then Hillary said that that was naive and irresponsible. And then his reaction to that was he would bomb an ally, General Musharraf in Pakistan. And he would take away the nuclear deterrent that we've had in this country. And now he makes this. And here's a tough question for you. Does that, coupled with these remarks here, in your mind say that Barack Obama is not qualified to be president of the United States?
ROMNEY: Well, I don't think the people of America are going to select Barack Obama, and I think this is an evidence as to why they should not and cannot. I think they're not going to select Hillary Clinton or John Edwards either because America is not going to turn left. America is not going to say that we're going to abandon our support of our troops. The comments he's made have gone beyond the idea of, "Look, we have different views about what to do in Iraq." They go to the foundation of whether we support our troops and stand behind our military. What he said in this latest round -- I hope he apologizes for and says it was a misstatement. He has to do that. Otherwise, what he's letting stand is a suggestion that somehow our troops are not noble and dignified. I mean, it's an outrageous thing, and I have to anticipate he's going to retreat from it.
[...]
HANNITY: Joining us now to analyze all of this, we have the author of the brand new book From Promise -- Obama: From Promise to Power, David Mendell is with us. David, thank you for being with us.
MENDELL: Thank you, Sean.
HANNITY: Would you agree with my assessment? Starting with the YouTube debate and his willingness, without preconditions, to talk to people like Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong Il, you know, leading up to his willingness to bomb an ally, Pakistan, you know, followed by his statement that under no conditions we use nuclear weapons, and now, today, saying our troops are air-raiding villages and killing civilians. Would you think he's making some political missteps here?
MENDELL: I think he would like to have some of those comments back. I think he's been, yeah, a little bit all over the place with his foreign policy. He's doing a lot of talking out there on the stump. This is something that he's not done before in a presidential campaign. So he seems to be making a few missteps with his speeches.
HANNITY: Are these a few missteps, or is this going to kill his candidacy here?
MENDELL: I can't answer that question. You know, the voters can answer that question. At the end of the day, it's going to depend whether -- there are five more months in this campaign until we get to Iowa. He will probably be competitive in Iowa. He's got enough money to compete there. Hillary, Senator Clinton, she's got five months to make some missteps. He -- certainly Senator Obama has had a couple of bad weeks here, but we'll see. I don't think it'll end his candidacy, no.
HANNITY: Well, let me ask you this. I'm thinking here, if I'm a family member of a brave troop that's serving in Iraq or Afghanistan, and I hear one of the major presidential candidates accusing my son and his colleagues of air-raiding villages and killing civilians, on top of a willingness to invade an ally against their will and sit down with Ahmadinejad, I'm thinking, "This guy doesn't have a clue and has no business, you know, running for president. Why would I conclude anything else?"
MENDELL: Well, I'm not here to defend his candidacy or defend him. I'm an author of a book about him. I think his remarks probably he would have to take back. I think his campaign is probably -- they're having conversations now as to how to try to come back from this.















HANNITY: Well, let me ask you this. I'm thinking here,
Key word here is 'thinking" which you are incapable of doing!
Hey Pearl!
I will have to say I don't ever agree with Hannity, but today I really have to say he (ever so remotely!) hit the nail on the head. I've been reading lots of articles on Raw Story, Crooks & Liars, and other liberal sites and even they agree that Barack has had a few gaffs. Obviously Hannity blows it out of proportion, but I have no doubt that we just may have some variation of Hillary and Obama running on the Dem ticket.
Hey Snoopy, while Obama has had some mistakes what Hannity used as examples were way off as usual.
Hannity referred to Obama's purported "political missteps" and characterized Obama as "accusing" U.S. forces of "air-raiding villages and killing civilians."
"We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there," Obama said
Afghan President Hamid Karzai expressed his concern about the civilian deaths during a meeting last week with President Bush.
Could he have said it better? Probably but I have a feeling that any objective review of our military actions would be taken not in the manner given from anyone reporting for Fox. Is what he said true? Yes to some degree. War has many causalities. Our troops make mistakes. To pretend they don’t would be foolish. Those kind of mistakes do not help in our efforts. The people we need the most help from are in those villages and killing even by mistake does not help our cause. I don't see that as a "political mistake" unless telling the truth is a mistake. Hannity characterized what Obama as something totally different which was Hannitys intent all along.
At first I thought the same but now I think it’s going to be Hillary/Bill Richardson.
"Is what he said true? Yes to some degree. War has many causalities. Our troops make mistakes. To pretend they don’t would be foolish. Those kind of mistakes do not help in our efforts. The people we need the most help from are in those villages and killing even by mistake does not help our cause. I don't see that as a "political mistake" unless telling the truth is a mistake."
No matter how you look at it, it is never good to accuse our own troops of purposefully and willingly wanting to kill innocent civilians and air raiding villages without cause. We don't go around raiding and striking for no reason. And for Obama to such a blanket statement of our troops and America's intentions is very irresponsible, especially for someone running for the presidency. You are correct in saying he could have worded his statement better, however, when you are running for such a high political office, unfortunately you are not afforded much forgiveness when it comes to these things. He has to know that whatever he says will be looked at under a microscope. To assume that he will be perfect is obviously unattainable, but the public expects that somehow. So, when he says words of this nature, he is held accountable for them. And it's not Hannity's fault for calling his words political missteps, or whatever term was used. Across the media board, left-leaning or right-leaning, many have concluded that Obama has made a few mistakes in his remarks regarding foreign policy.
PEARLENE said "War has many causalities. Our troops make mistakes. To pretend they don’t would be foolish."
No one said that our troops "purposefully and willingly"want to kill innocent civilians.
This is something that you and those on the right have been claiming that we on the left have been saying for more than thirty five years.
It does nothing to raise the level of discourse and only shows how easily led some on the right are.
When we deny that innocent people are sometimes killed in war, we do a great disservice to those troops still in the field.
In order for them to do their job, they need to have the population on their side. Lying and denying the truth only recruits more people to fight against us.
Of course they need the population on their side, and that is what troops do not have right now. They have politicians saying they have lost the war. They have politicians who are cutting their funding. They have politicians saying, and these are his words, not mine, "we are just air raiding villages and killing civilians." I know accidents happen, but to make a point like that at the expense of soldiers' mistakes is not a statement of one who is "on their side." I'm not being led by anything on the right, I'm being led by the very comments by Obama. Do you realize how discouraging it is for soldiers to hear the "war is lost" and presidential hopefuls saying they are just air raiding villages and killing civilians. I have a brother and 3 cousins in the military, and they want to share a very different Iraq. I know those 4 individuals don't speak for the entire military, but they have conveyed they are winning in Iraq, and word is that Gen. Patraeus will have a good report for Congress in September. This is very good news on the war front, but we get yahoos like Obama making light of mistakes made by soldiers by indicating this is the only thing they do only to make a cheap political point in a speaking engagement.
I've never met anyone who does not support the troops.
I don't know many people who still support this war.
Support for the troops has nothing to do with support for the war.
And I was not referring to the population of the US but of the population of Afghanistan. Those are the people we need to have on our side.
You speak of four people in the military who think that the country is not behind them. I won't argue with that.
But I know that men at war sometimes think that the only people who have their best interests at heart are the people who want to bring the war to an end.
And for your information, General Patraeus will not be giving a report to congress as we were promised. The report will be written by the White House.
smittymatt
I did not say "purposefully" and "willingly" you know it. To pretend that I said something else is exactly what Hannity did. Take someones statement and change it to suit your argument.
And for Obama to such a blanket statement of our troops and America's intentions is very irresponsible, especially for someone running for the presidency.
Obama did not make such a blanket statement. He said that with the right amount of troops we will not make the mistake of bombing civilians and causing them to not be willing to help us in the fight. Common sense, which many on the right seem to lack would tell you that if you kill by purpose or mistake, the very people you need help from, that help won’t be forthcoming.
And it's not Hannity's fault for calling his words political missteps, or whatever term was used.
If Hannity used Obama’s exact words then I could listen but he like you choose to interject your own words and meaning and claim that’s was Obama statement. That is not accountability.
"Obama did not make such a blanket statement. He said that with the right amount of troops we will not make the mistake of bombing civilians and causing them to not be willing to help us in the fight."
Actually, that is not at all what he said. He said what he said, and I'll quote again for you because you did not quote him correctly. He said, "We've got to get the job done there and that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians, which is causing enormous problems there." I'm not against making strides to decreasing, and hopefully eliminating civilian casualties, but to suggest that this is the only thing we are doing (which is indicated by him using the word "just") is irresponsible, and soldiers don't like it. They know they are doing much more than "just" killing innocent civilians. I didn't claim he is the worst person in the world, but I am claiming that Obama misspoke. Whether he meant for his comments to sound as they did is irrelevant. He said what he said, and I'm not going to speculate what he meant. As a leader, he needs to communicate what he means. I know many on the left dispised Bush for being a terrible communicator. I'm saying it doesn't sound good when a presidential hopeful makes blanket statements such as these.
It looks like you are using a logical fallacy by putting emphasis on the word "just" to change the emphasis of Obama's remark. By doing that it appears you are greatly changing the meaning of what Obama was apparently saying.
I am not changing what he said. I can see it plain and clear in front of me, and I speak English, so I'm pretty sure I heard and read correctly. It gives the impression that bombing and killing is the only thing we are doing there, does it not?
I don't see where Obama has made any mistakes by any objective measure. Some of the sites you mention may have a bias towards Hillary. Whatever their reason, they are simply wrong. Obama's views may not be entirely conventional, but they appear to be valid and well-thought out nonetheless.
I doubt there will ultimately be either variation of a Clinton/Obama ticket. I can't remember the last time the top two frontrunners ever shared the Democratic ticket. Running mates are usually chosen for ideological or geographical "balance" - which is a pretty antiquated idea, but one we can be pretty sure the Democrats will likely use.
Kerry/Edwards would be the last time.
I'm sorry, it looks as if you are right. Good catch. I misremembered it. I will have to check further back, but it does seem to be the exception that the ticket consists of the top two front-runners for the most part.
It was the first time in a long time.
i think the gaff is that he wasnt clear on what he was saying (of course when i say not clear obviously he was clear enough for normal people but not the likes of hannity and the ailes hit squad) allowing himself to be quoted out of context
Or his fellow candidates for the Democratic nomination for president.
I'd assume those sites have something of a bias against an Obama candidacy. Probably because they support Clinton (who along with a couple other candidates) has made a number of fairly disingenuous attacks on the comments Obams's made with regard to Pakistan and Nuclear weapons.
I say disingenuous because it's fairly clear all the Democrats and most of the Republicans agree with Obama's sentiment if not his forthcomingness.
SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!
I'm jealous and astounded he has a job which has him heading a cable news show in which he makes daily predictions, and analysis about the politics of the day for the past decade atleast and has'nt yet got anything right!!
He gets paid big money!
He has a regular audience with the President of the United States of America!!
He has a stage that ordains him as a expert source while having a record of ignorance, distortions, lies and outright stupidity that cuts a wake like an aircraft carrier, more likely a oil tanker!
Go figure!!
Happy Thoughts;
Dan Grady
Well he did have enough sense not to compare Romney's statement about the situation. I believe his position about an airstrike on a terrorist target in Pakistan does not vary greatly from Obama's.
Hannity is another reason I'm glad I don't have cable tv.
Is history going to repeat itself here? Can a conservative douchebag like Hannity tell Democrats what is a supposed "gaffe" in a candidate and what isn't? I don't see a single "gaffe" what Obama said. Not one. It seems that Hannity believes that unless you parrot the same old conventional lines on international issues as everyone else, it is automatically a "gaffe". I disagree. Obama seems to have some fresh thinking and much needed honesty on these ideas. He has my vote as well if I vote in that primary.
I hope the rest of you aren't gullible to fall for Hannity's BS. The right did the same thing against Wes Clark last time around. They have been very effective at attacking the most threatening candidate on the Democratic side and pushing Democrats to ultimately pick a weaker candidate.
It's often commented around here that some of these right-wing pundits live in their own little worlds, usually as hyperbole. But hannity takes it into the realm of truth. The Mad Hatter would have to do mushrooms to tour hannityville.
MMfH has rush apologists, and O'Really? apologists, and even savageweiner apologists. But I have yet to see one single hannity apologist on this site. Then again, one would have to know how to type.
hannity: Dumbest. Guy. In. Media. Period.
Neon, I hadn't really noticed that, but you're right. If you ever listen to Hannity's show, his callers are a riot.Most just seem to have rehearsed whatever BS Hannity has simplified from Rush while they're on hold, and seem very proud to repeat it when their call is taken.
Then the caller and Hannity call each other Great Americans.
I listened for 5 minutes once. The caller said "Shawn, you're a great American". Hannity responded "You sir, are a great American". I don't know how he knew this.
I responded by popping in the "Eagles" Hotel California. There's a great song on there called "The Last Resort".
The final verse has always got me:
"And you can see them there on Sunday morning,
They stand up and sing about what it's like up there.
They call it Paradise, I don't know why
You call someplace Paradise, and kiss it goodbye."
Great Lyrics! Anyway, that CD is a lot better than Hannity's program.
Now that I think back, you're righ...., correct Neon.
We've even had Coulter apologists stop by and defend her when she suggests meals of rat poison for government officials.
It might be because Hannity is two rungs below dumb on the intelligence ladder.
I don't think I've ever listened to him for more than ten minutes. But I've noticed that he can be mean, driven and inflexible, but not humorous.
Even at his most rabid ranting, he's not capable of coming up with the memorable punch-line.
After his show, it's possible to remember where he stands on the issue (2 steps to the right of Augusto Pinochet), but there's nothing to take back to the water cooler to regale the knuckle draggers with.
HBL, Worrier,
It doesn't take long (well, it just seems too long if you actually do it) to listen to hannity and recognize that he's nothing more than a vocalizer for pre-determined typed talking points. Take a gander some time at his "debate" with the mayor of Salt Lake, and his interaction with guests on H&C and his radio show. You'll probably notice that he NEVER rebuts anything said by his ideological opponents, but just repeats (ad nauseum) his lists of talking points as argument. If it isn't written down beforehand, it's not likely to enter his brain.
I repeat, because it can't be emphasized enough:
THE. Dumbest. Guy. In. Media. Ever.
Another example of the systematic left bias in the media:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003625825
Well, if you can't trust the most-informed and closest-to-the-source people in our society to promote a liberal agenda, even at the expense of their own best interest and contrary to the reality evinced by the voluminous information to which they are exposed daily, who can you trust?
More importantly, your Obama or hannity connection.... I'm not seeing it. Or is this just a convenient place to keep your comment because you've run out of room under your bridge for more propaganda?
I encourage all the outraged Obama fans to pull up the August 8&9 DAWN-the largest English language daily newspaper in pakistan and read about the 4 day debate your guy inspired.A Passel of pissed off pakistanis-who'll be running in the upcoming "free and fair elections". but hey the Senator's a household name in islamabad.If Obama himself didn't think he had a "gaffe" why did he weasel at the AFL-CIO debate and present his "revised version" as if that was his original remark ? Chris Dodd was right.It's not what Obama said that's the problem(I'm sure the focus group loved it) .It's the fact that he said it PUBLICLY.What part of WORLD WIDE web does he not get ? I don't understand what we gain by publicly threatening pakistan.(Bush on steroids.)They're already doing MUCH MORE than gets reported in the US. 700 dead soldiers this year.ALL the "actionable intelligence" comes from them & their allies who live in the "tribal regions".And they get dissed by a potential President while their nieghbors the Iranians nod and say "we told you they were a--holes."Making friends in the Muslim world. Barack Obama will make a great President SOMEDAY but not this time. ....Hannity is a lying pig.He's always been a lying pig. Why are you suprised when he acts like a lying pig? I truly think your time might be better spent LEARNING SOMETHING you WON'T see in the US Media. Knowledge is power.
to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians
The word "just" in the above sentence from Obama implies that all the American military in Afghanistan is doing right now is air-raiding villages and killing civilians. Even if Obama didn't mean it that way, he said it that way, so it's not misinformation just because Sean Hannity pointed it out, among others.
What parsing. This is the kind of "gotcha" punditry that is ruining our nation's discourse.
Does anyone here think Obama really doesn't support our troops?
Does anyone think Obama belives the troops are just killing civilians?
Does anyone think our troops are such wilting flowers that no one can say anything about foreign policy as long as they are fighting abroad?
Is anyone so naive as to think Obama's campaign words are anything more than an excuse for "debate" in Afghan politics?
Sean Hannity, master of the out-of-context-quote, once again proves he is more interested in ginning up his sheep than having a real discussion of the issues.
You know what, we can only go on what the man actually was quoted in saying. And what he said is that our troops are "just air raiding villages and killing civilians". This also implies that Bush, being the hateful man that he is, is the one directing the senseless killings. Obama indicates that our troop levels need to be higher in order to be more effective. Well, he has repeatedly voted to defund the troops, so how are our troop levels going to increase if the funding is not there?
"he has repeatedly voted to defund the troops"
Oh? Are you sure? Did he actually vote to defund the troops or to defund Bush's optional war which is getting them killed needlessly? Did he support Republican efforts to reduce their medical benefits?
"We've got to get the job done there [in Afghanistan] and that requires us to have enough troops so that we're not just air-raiding villages and killing civilians,
Smitty try to quote him correctly
The quote is not out-of-context. Again, that fact doesn't change because Sean said it.
As far as your "do you really believe that's what Obama thinks", that's besides the point and not a good excuse. First, the point is not so much that about what Obama meant, but that he said something that was at best a misrepresentation of the Afghanistan War. Second, a president should say what he means, and not make people that may not be familiar with him/her guess or speculate.
As far as your "do you really believe that's what Obama thinks", that's besides the point...
Quite the contrary - it is EXACTLY the point.
Hannity's stock-in-trade is to comb through every utterance anyone on the "left" makes to find a quote he can twist so he can assassinate his target's character.
As Hannity shows, time and time again, pretty much anything can be twisted into ammunition for a smear. For example, you said:
Second, a president should say what he means, and not make people that may not be familiar with him/her guess or speculate.
Were I Hannity, I could say:
"This poster thinks people are too stupid to figure things out for themselves! He thinks only elites can figure out nuanced statements! He is yet another one of these political insiders who think the American people need to be spoken to like a bunch of Third Graders!"
See how it works?
As this post shows, Obama is well within his rights to point out civilians deaths in Afghanistan caused by American forces. But Hannity chooses to zone in one what basically is one word to make his case that Obama is unfit to lead.
It's disingenuous, misleading, and just plain stupid. It's not an attempt to make an argument - it's sophistry. "But he said it!" is the excuse here.
All evidence indicates that Obama is ten times more qualified than Romney. Romney has proven that honesty is conspicuously absent among his "family values".
That's funny. How is he more qualified. How many years has he been in an elected position. How old is he? What significant things has he done to earn him such credibility? His foreign policy resume consists of him traveling overseas with his family, and that marks the end of that. List why he is such a qualified candidate.
Actually, it has more to do with Romney's lack of honesty than anything else. Have you watched the clip? Romney looks into the camera and does his best "aw, shucks" while he lies through his teeth about Obama's position. Besides that, he stuck his head squarely up Pat Robertson's butt and spoke at Robertson's phony law school commencement. The guy's a 4-star phony...that's all I need.
List why he is such a qualified candidate.
Just as I thought...Obama's foreign policy qualifications are so weak that even you won't take a stab at trying to list any.
Yes, and how did that prevent 50 million people from voting for President Bush in 2000?
I'm not talking about Romney. I'm asking you why you have such great confidence in this man's ability to lead this country in foreign affairs. Where is the evidence??
That's funny. How is he more qualified. How many years has he been in an elected position. How old is he? What significant things has he done to earn him such credibility? His foreign policy resume consists of him traveling overseas with his family, and that marks the end of that. List why he is such a qualified
That's funny, you could ask the same questions about Junior however he NEVER traveled outside the US.
We're not talking about "Junior". That is obviously over. This is about Obama. Don't change the subject.
I guess we are just puzzled at conservatives apparent newfound interest in foreign policy credentials when it wasn't a problem before. Seems like a disingenuous question or a double-standard.
Again, still not answering the question. I am concerned about current issues, ones that will effect this country greatly in the near future, and I'm wanting to know what Obama's credentials are that make him such a great foreign political leader. Apparently you are dodging because you don't have such evidence to support this false confidence you have.
"The Associated Press reported in a "Fact Check" responding to conservative attacks on Obama that "Western forces have been killing civilians at a faster rate than the insurgents."
Did the Hannity apologists miss that? Maybe they didn't bother to read the article. Sometimes the facts are unpatriotic. Sorry about that.
Hannity continues to demonstrate his fundamental dishonesty. He said: "And then his reaction to that was he would bomb an ally, General Musharraf in Pakistan."
Obama said, in essence "We will act". In Hannity's feeble mind, this translates to "Bomb General Musharraf". I know that plays well among the Rabid Right...but isn't there at least a basic standard of truth among these troglodytes? How do you defend this crap?
The final word on this:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2007/08/tpmtv_fact_check_romney_vs_oba.php
What do you think is important?
Reporting like TPM's about the policies of this issue as articulated by Karzai, Bush, the commanders, and pretty much everyone else?
Or Hannity's obsession over parsing Obama's words?
BANG! ZOOM! Hannity caught in another lie. Romney goes down in flames with him. What are the chances that this level of scrutiny will be applied by our stellar punditocracy to Romney's dishonesty? Is there a number smaller than zero...?
I notice that Romney defaults to the pathetic talking point that any criticism of Bush's idiotic policies is automatically "not supporting the troops". These a$$holes have ridden that hobby horse long enough, time to knock them off of it.
I just hope that our local Hannity sycophants will take the time to watch the clip....here's me holding my breath.
This analysis from William Arkin in the Washington Post is seems much more credible than the superficial and sloppy guesswork done at AP:
William M. Arkin on National and Homeland Security
Obama's Facts and Afghanistan's Casualties<!-- banner assignment ends here -->Typically, the number of daily missions in Afghanistan and Iraq daily where bombs are actually dropped can be counted on one hand. They might indeed be killing civilians, but the idea that they are responsible for more civilian deaths than ground forces is false. What is true about such deaths is that they are more obvious: We can see and count them.
Obama's suggestion that civilians are dying in Afghanistan because there are not enough troops on the ground would be difficult to prove. We do not have enough reliable data even to gauge the level of civilian deaths (at U.S. hands, moreover), let alone the "responsible" party within the U.S. military. We also lack reliable historical data to determine whether, when civilians do die, the number exceeds what is to be expected in this deadly enterprise.
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It seems clear that Obama did get this one wrong - it's also beyond question that Obama has not been doing well in the primary race considering how far HRC has climbed in the polls.
Honestly, if this comment were from someone else besides Hannity, would MM even care?
Actually, it's not clear that Obama got this wrong. Arkin himself says he can't "prove" it either way. If you scroll down, you'll see this interesting response posted by a reader:
"Sir, not sure how you square your conclusions that the use of US air power in Afghanistan has not inflicted significant, unnecessary civilian causalties with reports from British commanders that the US restrain its combined use of Special Forces with air power- which they have concluded have caused large numbers of civilian deaths. It is also a point made by the President of Afghanistan. In fact, the British appear to have concluded that American use of indiscriminate air power has hurt the efforts of NATO forces to win over the "hearts and minds" of the Afghan people as well as further undermined the legitimacy of the central government."
Maybe the AP is right? I think further reading may be necessary...something neither Hannity nor Romney will be guilty of.
One thing IS clear...even the smartest Smart Bomb can't tell the difference between a toddler and a terrorist. If terrorists are using civilians as human shields, ground forces at least have a chance of killing the terrorists without killing the civilians, though it's not easy. Bombs have NO chance.
"The president rightly expressed his concerns about civilian casualty," Bush said of Karzai. "And I assured him that we share those concerns."
Maybe Obama didn't get it wrong.
No one is contesting anyone's level of care or concern with regards to civilian casualties. The issue is Obama suggesting that this is the only thing we are doing there.
No he isn't. Because you say it, doesn't make it so.
I didn't say it smart one. I heard Obama's words, and they imply the all we are doing is bombing and killing because we don't have enough troops there. I'm challenging his notion that we are "just air raiding villages and killing civilians."
I think Romney knows he can't get the nomination, so he's sucking up to the troglodyte base, hoping for the VP slot. Just my theory.