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LA Times' McGough guessed "President Gore" might have allowed warrantless wiretapping, but didn't note Gore's public criticisms

August 24, 2007 5:54 pm ET

SUMMARY: In a column, Los Angeles Times senior editorial writer Michael McGough asserted that "it is far from a slam dunk ... that a Gore administration wouldn't have done at least some of the things for which Bush has been pilloried" and that Gore "might well have followed suit after 9/11 with his own versions of the Patriot Act and the Terrorist Surveillance Program." However, McGough did not mention Gore's strong criticism of the Bush administration's warrantless domestic surveillance program or that Gore has called for the repeal of the Patriot Act.

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In an August 23 column, Los Angeles Times senior editorial writer Michael McGough asked, "If [former Vice President Al] Gore, not President Bush, had been in office on 9/11 when the World Trade Center towers fell, would civil liberties have survived the war on terrorism unscathed?" McGough went on to assert that "it is far from a slam dunk ... that a Gore administration wouldn't have done at least some of the things for which Bush has been pilloried." In conducting this "thought experiment," McGough concluded that Gore "might well have followed suit after 9/11 with his own versions of the Patriot Act and the Terrorist Surveillance Program." But McGough did not mention Gore's strong criticism of the Bush administration's warrantless domestic surveillance program. In fact, shortly after the program was publicly disclosed, Gore characterized it as "seem[ing] so clearly to violate the Bill of Rights." Gore has also called for the repeal of the Patriot Act.

In a January 16, 2006, speech to the American Constitution Society, titled "Restoring the Rule of Law," Gore criticized the Bush administration's approval of the National Security Agency's (NSA) warrantless wiretapping program. He asserted that "this pervasive wiretapping virtually compels the conclusion that the President of the United States has been breaking the law repeatedly and persistently," adding that the "Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act self-evidently does not authorize what the NSA has been doing and no one inside or outside the administration claims that it does." Gore also drew a distinction between himself and Bush on counterterrorism policy:

The President and I agree on one thing. The threat from terrorism is all too real. There is simply no question that we continue to face new challenges in the wake of the attack on September 11th and that we must be ever-vigilant in protecting our citizens from harm.

Where we disagree is that we have to break the law or sacrifice our system of government to protect Americans from terrorism. In fact, doing so makes us weaker and more vulnerable.

Gore later criticized Bush's national security policy more broadly, citing Bush's declaration of "a heretofore unrecognized inherent power to seize and imprison any American citizen that he alone determines to be a threat to our nation, and that notwithstanding his American citizenship that person in prison has no right to talk with a lawyer" and what Gore characterized as the administration's claim of "a previously unrecognized authority to mistreat prisoners in its custody in ways that plainly constitute torture."

Further, in a November 9, 2003, speech titled "Freedom and Security," Gore called for the repeal of the Patriot Act:

Finally, I have studied the Patriot Act and have found that along with its many excesses, it contains a few needed changes in the law. And it is certainly true that many of the worst abuses of due process and civil liberties that are now occurring are taking place under the color of laws and executive orders other than the Patriot Act.

Nevertheless, I believe the Patriot Act has turned out to be, on balance, a terrible mistake, and that it became a kind of Tonkin Gulf Resolution conferring Congress's blessing for this President's assault on civil liberties. Therefore, I believe strongly that the few good features of this law should be passed again in a new, smaller law --- but that the Patriot Act must be repealed.

From McGough's August 23 Los Angeles Times column:

Only partly in the spirit of "Saturday Night Live," which once asked how World War II would have been affected if Eleanor Roosevelt could fly, I'd like to ask a "what if" question: How would the current discourse about civil liberties in an age of terrorism be different if Al Gore, rather than George W. Bush, had been elected president in 2000?

One possible difference is that we probably wouldn't be debating how (if at all) the war on terrorism related to the war in Iraq. But I'm more intrigued by that sector of the multiverse in which Gore won, 9/11 happened and U.S. military retaliation was limited to Afghanistan ..... yet other preventative measures were still taken on the home front.

It's a useful thought experiment because so much of the criticism of Bush's "assault on civil liberties" -- shorthand for the Patriot Act, National Security Agency eavesdropping on citizens suspected of ties to terrorists, Guantanamo -- operates on a kind of unified field theory of Bush perfidy. Having stolen the election in Florida, Bush lied us into Iraq, then set about trashing Americans' privacy on the bumper-sticker pretext of the war on terrorism.

It's no accident that Democrats who supported the recent "temporary fix" in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act did so in spite of, not because of, Bush's championing of the bill. In defending her vote in favor, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) emphasized how much she trusted not the president but Director of National Intelligence J. Michael McConnell.

So riddle me this, Bush-bashers: If President Gore, not President Bush, had been in office on 9/11 when the World Trade Center towers fell, would civil liberties have survived the war on terrorism unscathed?

Those who would answer "yes" can argue that Gore would not have received counsel from executive-power maximalists such as Dick Cheney and Justice Department official John Yoo. Instead, Gore would be counseled by hawkish Vice President Joe Lieberman, with some kibitzing from his Democratic predecessor, Bill Clinton.

But what makes this "what if" exercise so fascinating is that it is far from a slam dunk (as former CIA Director George Tenet, a Clinton appointee, might say) that a Gore administration wouldn't have done at least some of the things for which Bush has been pilloried.

[...]

The point isn't whether [former CIA director James] Woolsey was right or wrong in his defense of unilateral eavesdropping by the once-mysterious NSA (which stood, Washington wags used to say, for "No Such Agency"). The point is that you don't have to be a "loyal Bushie" or even a Republican to support some renegotiation of the relationship between liberty and security. Clinton did after the Oklahoma City bombing, and President Al Gore might well have followed suit after 9/11 with his own versions of the Patriot Act and the Terrorist Surveillance Program.

We'll never know for sure how President Gore would have reacted in those circumstances, any more than we can assess the contributions of an airborne Eleanor to the war effort. But it's at least possible that, lacking Bush's baggage, President Gore might have been even better able to convince Congress that security must trump privacy.

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    • Author by CaseySpring (August 24, 2007 5:57 pm ET)
         

      President Gore?

      I think if he were the President we would have never had a 9/11 because he would not have taken August of 2001 off.  Therfore everything else would never have happened. Am I wrong?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by JLyons (August 24, 2007 6:52 pm ET)
           

        Casey despite what Sue/Ellie said below (obviously Sue/Ellie is trying to blow up the board tonight with the fighting, you have a point). I am a firm believer that if we had a President in 2001 who was in constant touch 9/11 may not have happened. The threat was there during the Clinton years, the plans were there and stopped (New Years 2000 among them that come to mind). 

        I am also not so sure though that either party would completely stop wiretapping. I remember the movie "Enemy of the State". That discussion was going on throughout the Clinton years.    

        Report Abuse
      • Author by eweston8542983 (August 24, 2007 7:25 pm ET)
           

        Well he might have taken the briefing on terrorism and moved in the same direction that Clinton started. As opposed to the shrub administration shinning it on. Maybe the various warnings would have been acted on. Beyond that it's speculation.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by BreakerBaker (August 24, 2007 7:50 pm ET)
           

        Yes, you're probably wrong.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by CaseySpring (August 24, 2007 8:48 pm ET)
             

          Why am I wrong? Would President Gore be in Crawford for a month ? Spending time on stem cell research?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by BreakerBaker (August 24, 2007 9:47 pm ET)
               

            While nobody would argue that the Bush administration were focused on the issue, I find very little actual evidence to persuade me that a President Gore would have avoided 9/11.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by DorisRussell (August 24, 2007 11:46 pm ET)
                 

              Really?  Even after ignoring Richard Clarke?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by BreakerBaker (August 25, 2007 8:31 am ET)
                   

                I think a lot of things seem clearer in retrospect than they actually were. I'm not trying to discount the advice of Clarke or the August PDB. I'm just saying that I'm not confident those warnings looked the same before 9/11 as they look today.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by open_mind (August 26, 2007 11:49 pm ET)
                     

                  You are right that it is all speculative.  I do think 9/11 would have been more likely averted under a President Gore - not for purely political reasons at all, but because there would have been less of a disruption concerning the continuity of the government.  The transition to the Bush Admnistration was very disruptive to many programs from what I have read.

                  I think that the Bush Administration was very skeptical of anything they heard from the Clinton Administration.  If I remember correctly, the Bush Administration proudly announced they were reviewing every Clinton Administration program shortly after inauguration.  They ended up continuing nearly every program, but valuable resources were likely tied up by these proceedings.

                  The Bush Administration's top priority also became abroggation of the ABM Treaty - which also drew precious resources away from intelligence, defence and diplomatic areas.

                  I don't know to what extent this may have damaged the operations against bin laden, but it couldn't have helped the situation IMO.

                  Report Abuse
    • Author by nomobush (August 24, 2007 6:20 pm ET)
         

      Yes, you're probably wrong. There's a good likelihood that there was not a chance to stop 9/11. We didn't even know many of the participants as people to be scared of, and it's likely that had we even stopped a couple of the participants, others would have still carried out their attacks.

      Given the short timeframe between that August PDB and 9/11, even if Bush had directed them to act with all possible effort, it's almost certain that it still would have happened. With 9 months of intense dedication to the effort, from his inauguration until 9/11, there's a slightly better chance that it could have been disrupted, but even then it's not sure that the plot would have been uncovered and the participants all rounded up.

      This story though, is about how, given that 9/11 happened, would Gore have reacted the same way, and of course that answer is no, he would not have. This guy had no reason to say that Gore would have allowed any of those violations of our civil rights. The fact is that there's every reason to say that Gore would not have gone along with those choices. How anyone could come to the conclusions that this guy did, given the facts, is incredible. That's why MMfA covered this, because his comments are so off base.

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      • Author by scooter (August 24, 2007 6:56 pm ET)
           

        My school board could have stopped the attack, given that Richard Clarke was very alarmed and was telling them that this was their biggest threat. Clinton's staff made sure to hand-off the info as a very grave danger.

        Terrorists plan to attack... with airplanes... into buildings? Really? Who would have taken a vacation?

        Oh, and I don't trust my school board for much more than running the school, but I do trust that they would have taken Clark seriously as he ran up and down hallways screaming that they had better pay attention to the warnings.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by JLyons (August 24, 2007 7:01 pm ET)
             

          Scooter I believe what you said is 100% correct. Richard Clarke warned them in January, the signs were there per the 9/11 commission. Sue/Ellies attempt to give Bush a pass on this is another attempt to disrupt this board.

          That man did not do his job, he took a vacation. If President Gore were there we would not habe had a 9/11 . Now would he do illegal wiretapping? no, but would it have been expored, yes.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by roundhouse (August 24, 2007 7:20 pm ET)
               

            Stop it. You're the only one disrupting this board as of 7:21 pm.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by CaseySpring (August 24, 2007 8:50 pm ET)
                 

              Roundhouse, JLyons provided an answer, the only one disrupting these boards is nomobush aka (Sue/Ellie). Can you honesty say that if Gore were President you believe we still would have had a 9/11? Honestly?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by roundhouse (August 24, 2007 9:04 pm ET)
                   

                Stop with the childish provocations already, please. It's NomoBush.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by nomobush (August 24, 2007 7:40 pm ET)
               

            I didn't give Bush a pass, not in any way. That's yet another attempt by you to make an insult because you don't have a point.

            I made no personal attacks in my post to you. I disagreed with what you said. You're the one disrupting the site with your personal attacks.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by roundhouse (August 24, 2007 7:45 pm ET)
                 

              Please stop this right here. Don't take it any further. You guys are headed toward being banned and for what?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by nomobush (August 24, 2007 8:00 pm ET)
                   

                Like I said on another thread, if MMfA bans me for my behavior, then they've got their heads crammed into the wrong place.

                I politely disagreed with what a poster said. I wasn't trying to start any fight. I believe that even if Gore were in office, acting on the PDB in August would have been too late. I don't think that Gore would have done nothing between inauguration and August, but even the 9/11 Commission said that there was a good chance that nothing could have stopped those events. We only knew that two bad guys out of 19 were in the USA, and we caught another potential guy but he didn't give anyone up. There's great doubt that anything could have happened to stop 9/11. It doesn't give Bush a pass by saying that though, because Bush did many things wrong, and could have worked much harder and much faster.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by CaseySpring (August 24, 2007 8:52 pm ET)
                   

                Roundhouse according to Sue/Ellie whenever you question Sue /Ellie on her smears it is a personal attack. As for being banned, I do agree with Sue/Ellie.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by roundhouse (August 24, 2007 8:59 pm ET)
                     

                  Just stop it, stop with the provocations. It's NomoBush. Period.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Brabantio (August 24, 2007 9:57 pm ET)
                     

                  Whatever you say, Sue.  There's much, much more evidence that you were using multiple names than there is that Nomobush is Sue/Ellie.  It may be the case, but you are the last person who should be making a big deal out of it.

                  Your nerve is unbelievable.  You got busted for being Sueeld, then you call for someone else getting banned?  As if you're a role model for honesty.  Unreal.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by Brabantio (August 24, 2007 10:00 pm ET)
                     

                  I apologize, I misread what you typed.  It was a long travel day.

                  Report Abuse
        • Author by nomobush (August 24, 2007 7:55 pm ET)
             

          Scooter, here's what I said - maybe you missed it.

          "Given the short timeframe between that August PDB and 9/11, even if Bush had directed them to act with all possible effort, it's almost certain that it still would have happened."

          The 9/11 commission agrees with me, that by August, it was likely too late to stop anything. They also say that it easily could have not been stopped had he paid attention since January.

          Hindsight is 20/20, and Bush didn't do all he could to try to prevent terrorism. He did almost nothing, in fact, before 9/11. That doesn't mean that someone else could have stopped it. They should had done what they could have, and it's almost certain that Gore would have handled it differently, and not taken 8 months to come up with his own plan just because the one he was handed came from Clinton.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by scooter (August 25, 2007 2:33 pm ET)
               

            "There's a good likelihood that there was not a chance to stop 9/11." Vague use of "god likelihood" and "chance". Worthless babble.

            "We didn't even know many of the participants as people to be scared of, and it's likely that had we even stopped a couple of the participants, others would have still carried out their attacks." We knew many of them, and Clarke was giving warnings to the key players. We have a HUGE CIA, NSA, FBI and pump billions into it, so don't hand us another vapid "likely". "Given the short timeframe between that August PDB and 9/11, even if Bush had directed them to act with all possible effort, it's almost certain that it still would have happened." For BuchCo, yes, it may have been too late. Pay attention, wind back the clock to when the Chimp-in-Cheif was first in office, and watch as he takes vacations. "almost certain" still makes you look foolish. "With 9 months of intense dedication to the effort, from his inauguration until 9/11, there's a slightly better chance that it could have been disrupted, but even then it's not sure that the plot would have been uncovered and the participants all rounded up." Sure, but you say exactly what BushCo-Fo have been saying. "Nevermind out incredible mistakes... we are busy working hard on covering our asses right now. No time to talk about our illegal involvement after ignoring facts dropped on our desks for 9 months." Sound familiar? "This story though, is about how, given that 9/11 happened, would Gore have reacted the same way, and of course that answer is no, he would not have." Double HUH? This guy had no reason to say that Gore would have allowed any of those violations of our civil rights. The fact is that there's every reason to say that Gore would not have gone along with those choices. Every reason to say is a Fox News tactic. Sean Hannity, is this you? How anyone could come to the conclusions that this guy did, given the facts, is incredible. That's why MMfA covered this, because his comments are so off base. Good luck with your chances of getting on Fox. They are much higher than mine.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by scooter (August 25, 2007 2:37 pm ET)
               

            close

            Report Abuse
      • Author by BreakerBaker (August 24, 2007 8:03 pm ET)
           

        On the contrary, the story is not with regard to whether a President Gore would have acted the same way; it's whether or not he would have acted in similar ways. It's an important distinction.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by nomobush (August 24, 2007 8:11 pm ET)
             

          What are you talking about?

          McGough concluded that Gore "might well have followed suit after 9/11 with his own versions of the Patriot Act and the Terrorist Surveillance Program."

          Followed suit and acted in the same way by passing his own versions of the Patriot Act and the TSP.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by BreakerBaker (August 24, 2007 9:44 pm ET)
               

            The key phrase being 'his own versions of.' While that doesn't exclude similarities between the hypothetical programs and those actually in existance, it by no means suggests the programs would be the same. That's the distinction.

            Report Abuse
      • Author by lostlogic (August 24, 2007 9:39 pm ET)
           

        We will never know the answer to this question of whether this would have been stopped if Bush wasn't pres.  It is really just specualtion and anyone arguing that they KNOW it wouldn't have happened if Gore was in office is taking that on faith and not facts.  I think Bush was asleep at the wheel.  I think they didn't take the warnings of the outgoing administration seriously.  I think they ignored Clark.   I think they had an agenda and they didn't want to hear from those who were in the know.  But at the end of the day I am not sure the mind frame at the time even by those in the know would have moved quick enough to prevent what happened.  I think there is much to critize Bush for but I am not sure the failure to prevent the attack can entirely be laid at his feet.

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    • Author by pbg (August 24, 2007 7:09 pm ET)
         

      Al Gore was in office when the World Trade Center was attacked. The terrorists were FOUND, the terrorists were ARRESTED, the terrorists were pit in PRISON. All without suspending the bill of rights.

      If Gore had been President--and that means if Richard Clarke had been his counterterrorism chief--they would have been in double hair-on-fire alert as soon as they got the word "Bin Laden determined to strike inside the U.S." They might have stopped them the way they stopped the Millennium Bombing. (remember that? The onethtat didn't happen?)They might have found the guys--but even if they didn't, NORAD would have been on high alert, with interceptors in the sky, so when the word cane in that 4, count'em 4 planess were hijacked at the same time, each of them would have a couple of armed ships on their wingtips.

      It's conceivable that the first plane might have hit the tower anyway--After all, Gore would have had to shoot down an airliner filled with people--but that would have been it.

      One tower might have fallen--maybe not even that. It might have to be demolished later. And of course hundred would die on the plane.

      President Al Gore would have captured or killed Osama bin Laden within three months of the attacks. And by now Al Qaeda would be a distant memory.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by nomobush (August 24, 2007 8:07 pm ET)
           

        The Millennium bombing was different. They had a specific date around which they were looking.

        And about the fighter jets patrolling the skies. You seem to think that it's easier to identify, locate and shoot down passenger jet airplanes when their transponders have been turned off that it really is, even if you're ready. It's possible, but it really would be pretty hard for them to do.

        The point of this thread is that Gore would have done things differently, and I think that's true without a doubt. I think there's great doubt as to the effectiveness of an alternative strategy.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by BreakerBaker (August 24, 2007 7:59 pm ET)
         

      I don't think this is all that unfair. The author certainly doesn't suggest the programs would have been the same programs. He simply supposes the relative likelihood of programs that may have made some compromises to our civil liberties. I think it's a fair assumption regardless of how critical the former VP has been of the current administration. I don't know that it's true, but I think it's fair to suggest that it may be.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (August 24, 2007 9:27 pm ET)
           

        "He simply supposes the relative likelihood of programs that may have made some compromises to our civil liberties."

        Like what?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by BreakerBaker (August 24, 2007 9:55 pm ET)
             

          Specifically, he names some sort of 'TSP' or legislation resembling the 'Patriot Act.' I don't find that to be terribly far-fetched. I think the hypothetical is sort of silly because it's entirely unknowable, but I think that's also the quality that makes it kind of an interesting thing to consider.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (August 25, 2007 2:02 am ET)
               

            I wonder if the GOP will use this sort of logic in '08.

            "Sure, we suck, but we have a feeling, based on nothing but our imaginations, that if anybody else was in charge, they would have been just as bad. So vote for us."

            Report Abuse
          • Author by loonz (August 25, 2007 3:36 pm ET)
               

            Specifically, he names some sort of 'TSP' or legislation resembling the 'Patriot Act.'

            There has always been a Terrorist Surveillance Program.

            There are only a few provisions in the Patriot Act that I think are unconstitutional (provisions that nix judicial review, sneak and peek, certain agencies being exempt from the Freedom of Information Act, etc.).  I would have had no problem with Gore putting forward legislation resembling the Patriot Act  that exclude those provisions.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by open_mind (August 26, 2007 11:57 pm ET)
               

            I really don't see any point to that kind of speculation as it is hard to fully accept the premise.  Gore and Bush are so different I don't think events would have unravelled the same as the question presumes.

            I think if you are going to speculate that wildly, it would be better to save that to ask Gore himself instead of just assuming his answer or what he might have done.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by BreakerBaker (August 27, 2007 11:32 am ET)
                 

              While I would certainly agree that it's not necessarily helpful, I don't know that we can trust Al Gore to have a real understanding of what he'd do in that position. I don't know that he knows what he'd've done had the roles been reversed. I think he knows what he think he would have done. But I don't think any of us should discount the differences between someone speculating about what they would've done in a moment of crisis with what they would actually do. If there's anything helpful about this hypothetical is that it makes people face the fact that they really don't know how things would have been different. Obviously, I believe some things would be different. But would the differences be as drastic? It's the kind of question that could, if treated seriously could give back to liberals one of their lost virtues: empathy.  

              Report Abuse
    • Author by mailforldp1972 (August 24, 2007 9:26 pm ET)
         

      As i wrote Mr. McGough, "Mr. Mcgough, You're first problem is looking through the eyes of NeoCons when asking your first question, because you talk of being "counseled by a Vice President Lieberman". I must obviously be the first to advise you that, this is the first Administration that the current (Vice)President Dick Cheney claims to advise the acting President. All other Vice Presidents have SERVED THE PRESIDENT. And when you acknowledge the role of the Vice President, you wouldn't have to worry about Joe Lieberman of 7 years ago counseling or advising the President Gore. Some times things are meant to be and now that we know Joe Lieberman of today, it helps explain his conduct of the campaign and his debates. Only afterwards admitting his dislike for the "populist" campaign Al Gore was running. So, we may indeed get the correct person to fix our nation and planet this time and we won't have to worry about a running mate with alterior motives. President Al Gore, running mate to be advised. Time for a COOL change,Gore2008"And a surprising reply:""maybe you're right, but it's all "what if" ________________________________ From: [mailto:xxxx@xxx.com]Sent: Thu 8/23/2007 8:18 AMTo: michael.mcgough@latimes.comCc: opinionla@latimes.comSubject: If Al Gore Were President

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    • Author by solon (August 25, 2007 2:49 pm ET)
         

      I am guessing the Martians MIGHT have invented the game of baseball. Since there arent any Martians here disputing that I MIGHT be on firmer ground than McGough, since there MIGHT not be any Martians maybe its a wash

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    • Author by mary59 (August 26, 2007 1:27 am ET)
         

      Everything the bushies have done since 9/11 is based upon political gain and amassing wealth for themselves.  Destroying our ecosystem, gutting  the middle class, bankrupting the economy, war-mongering for profit and vain-glory...

      9/11 happened to several thousand of our citizens and their families.  For the rest of us, it was a psychological event, manipulated in truly evil fashion by those in the White House.  There is no question in my mind that Gore is a much better man, and if he had assumed the presidency (which was stolen from him) that we would be in much better shape today.

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