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Defending claim that Clinton said surge was "working," Union-Leader editorial page editor provided evidence to the contrary

August 31, 2007 2:41 pm ET

SUMMARY: Responding to Media Matters' criticism, Manchester Union Leader editorial page editor Drew Cline defended the newspaper's statement that Sen. "Hillary Clinton said Gen. David Petraeus' troop surge is working." Cline wrote: "Media Muddles preposterously asserts that when Clinton said 'change tactics in Iraq' she was not talking about the surge. ... Oh, OK. The changed tactics refer to what, then? THE SURGE!" But the articles that Cline cited for support show that she attributed the progress in Iraq's Al Anbar province to U.S. agreements with local tribal leaders that began in September 2006.

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In an August 28 post on his official blog, Manchester Union Leader editorial page editor Drew Cline, responding to Media Matters for America's criticism of an August 24 Union Leader editorial, defended the editorial's statement that Democratic presidential candidate "Hillary Clinton said Gen. David Petraeus' troop surge is working." As Cline noted, in an August 20 speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Clinton said, "We've begun to change tactics in Iraq and in some areas, particularly in Al-Anbar province, it's working. We're just years too late changing our tactics. We can't ever let that happen again." Quoting the headline of the Media Matters item, Cline wrote that, "Media Muddles claimed breathlessly: 'Union Leader editorial falsely claimed Clinton said "troop surge in Iraq is working." ' " But, Cline asserted, "[W]e're right and they're wrong. ... Media Muddles preposterously asserts that when Clinton said 'change tactics in Iraq' she was not talking about the surge. ... Oh, OK. The changed tactics refer to what, then? THE SURGE! This is deliberately disingenuous on the part of Media Muddles. The group would have us believe that Clinton was not referring to the surge just because she didn't call it the surge. But of course it is precisely what she was referring to." But two articles that Cline cited to support his claim in fact show that she had previously attributed the progress in Al Anbar to U.S. agreements with local tribal leaders, which, as Media Matters has noted, began in September 2006. And indeed, while Cline asserted that, in citing progress in Al Anbar in earlier articles, Clinton was actually talking about the overall "surge," one of the stories he cited is from mid-March, when, as he later noted, the overall "surge" had just "g[otten] underway."

Cline wrote:

Media Muddles quotes our note that Clinton had previously referenced surge successes in March and May, then writes dismissively, "Media Matters could find no reports of Clinton 'not[ing] the surge's successes' in March or May."

That's because, again, Media Muddles rules out any Clinton comments that do not use the word "surge." But Media Muddles then cites the precise two examples we referred to. In March Clinton noted progress in Anbar province, and she did so again in May. She just didn't call it "the surge."

However, in both of the articles to which Cline linked, a March 16 post on the New York Daily News Mouth of the Potomac blog that included the transcript of an interview of Clinton, and a May 7 New York Observer article, Clinton explicitly attributed the progress in Anbar province to U.S. agreements with tribal leaders -- which, as Cline later noted, date to September 2006 -- and said that she would aim to continue the progress those agreements have achieved with a limited number of troops.

In the Daily News interview, Clinton said: "We seem to be making a little progress in Al Anbar province because we have an alliance with the tribal sheiks for the very first time." Later, she said that she would leave some troops in Anbar province to preserve any "good cooperation" there against Al Qaeda in Iraq, but added, "I don't know anybody who has looked at this from a military perspective who says that we would need a lot of troops to keep that up. We're talking mostly special forces." Additionally, at the beginning of the interview, she specifically called for "no escalation" in Iraq.

From the March 15 Daily News interview with Clinton:

[Q:] How can keeping troops in Iraq translate into ending the war?

[A:] "Every one of us who has put forth a comprehensive plan and of course the resolution that I'm now supporting, the Democratic resolution in the Senate, all call for a remaining military mission. And of course if we could start now to do what many of us believe we should -- like no escalation and forcing political solutions and international involvement and all the things I've talked about for a very long time -- then we would be on the path toward reducing drastically the number of troops we have with these remaining missions.

The problem is that it doesn't appear the President is going to change course. And so when I'm President, January 2009, I'm going to have to start ending the war and that will mean moving our troops out in a safe and orderly way with these remaining missions, and we will then have to make an assessment. How well are we doing against Al Qaeda? We seem to be making a little progress in Al Anbar province because we have an alliance with the tribal sheiks for the very first time. How are the Kurds doing up in the north? Because they've been performing well and we don't want to undercut them. What's happening with Iranian influence that could be a danger to the region, to us, to Israel?

And finally, if the Iraqi government, by January 2009, has begun to reconcile some of their internal problems and they have an army and a police force that is functioning well, we'll provide them logistical support. We'll continue to provide them training but we are not going to put American troops into the middle of this sectarian civil war. That's the bottom line for all of us.

[...]

[Q:] The argument that I get from anti-war activists is that our presence brought Al Qaeda there, so they don't see how keeping troops there will help remove Al Qaeda, or win the war.

[A:] They're right on the first point, which is there's no doubt that our invasion and the mismanagement of the aftermath and the chaos that occurred led to Al Qaeda being able to have a beachhead. There is no doubt about that

When I look at this, I don't know how many [troops] we're talking about. If we're getting good cooperation in Al Anbar proivince [sic] and we've got Al Qaeda pinned down, we can't walk away from that. And I don't know anybody who has looked at this from a military perspective who says that we would need a lot of troops to keep that up. We're talking mostly special forces.

But we've got to have some openness to understanding what we need to do to protect ourselves, and that's what I'm talking about.

Likewise, Cline's second example, a May 7 report on Clinton's May 6 "Town Hall-style event," posted on the New York Observer's blog The Politicker, quoted Clinton as saying, "We are making some progress it turns out, in what is called Al Anbar province against al Qaeda and the reason we are is that our military leaders have learned a lot in the last several years there and they have made common cause with some of the tribal leaders, who don't like Al Qaeda any more than we do because Al Qaeda is also going after them."

Indeed, Cline asserted that Clinton, when she referred to, in his words, "progress in al Anbar" in March and May, was actually referring to the progress of the overall surge. However, as Cline himself stated, in a different context, the overall surge only "g[ot] underway" this spring: According to the August 27 Brookings Institution "Iraq Index," as of March 14, 6,000 new U.S. troops had been deployed to Baghdad, compared to the final figure of 16,700 that were deployed to Baghdad as of June 18 (as part of the overall build-up, troop levels in al Anbar province separately rose by 4,000 as of February. ).

From Cline's August 28 blog post, titled "Media Muddles' False Claim of Union Leader Falsity":

Media Muddles' false claim of Union Leader falsity

Tuesday August 28th 2007, 5:59 pm

Filed under: Blog Posts

Media Matters for America, the left-wing hit organization that makes a living defending all things Democrat and liberal with shoddy claims of bias in the news, has taken on our Friday editorial on Sen. Hillary Clinton's flip-flopping on the surge.

Media Muddles claimed breathlessly: "Union Leader editorial falsely claimed Clinton said 'troop surge in Iraq is working.' "

But we're right and they're wrong.

Here is what Clinton said on Aug. 20: "We've begun to change tactics in Iraq and in some areas, particularly in Al-Anbar province, it's working. We're just years too late changing our tactics. We can't ever let that happen again."

Media Muddles preposterously asserts that when Clinton said "change tactics in Iraq" she was not talking about the surge. "In fact, as Media Matters for America has noted, Clinton said in her August 20 speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) that changed tactics in Iraq are 'working' - not President Bush's troop 'surge' policy."

Oh, OK. The changed tactics refer to what, then? THE SURGE! This is deliberately disingenuous on the part of Media Muddles. The group would have us believe that Clinton was not referring to the surge just because she didn't call it the surge. But of course it is precisely what she was referring to.

Media Muddles accepts without question the Clinton campaign's line that she was referring only to results in Anbar province, writing, "According to an August 21 New York Times article, "Aides to Mrs. Clinton said her remarks that military tactics in Iraq are 'working' referred specifically to reports of increased cooperation from Sunnis leading to greater success against insurgents in Al Anbar Province."

But, um, that's not what she said. As the editorial pointed out, she said, "in some areas, particularly in Al-Anbar province, it's working." Media Muddles would have us swallow the Clinton campaign line that "some areas, including Al-Anbar province," means "only Al-Anbar province." Come on.

Media Muddles quotes our note that Clinton had previously referenced surge successes in March and May, then writes dismissively, "Media Matters could find no reports of Clinton 'not[ing] the surge's successes' in March or May."

That's because, again, Media Muddles rules out any Clinton comments that do not use the word "surge." But Media Muddles then cites the precise two examples we referred to. In March Clinton noted progress in Anbar province, and she did so again in May. She just didn't call it "the surge."

Media Muddles claims that Clinton was referring to changed tactics that began in Al Anbar last September. But that's running interference for Clinton, for she NEVER claims that. Nor, as far as I've seen, did she begin referring to the changed tactics as breeding success until this spring, as the surge was getting underway. What she said on Aug. 20 was "we've begun to change tactics in Iraq. . ." That's a reference to a recent change, not a year-old one.

Media Muddles is all wet on this one. Clinton said the surge was producing results, but when she got whacked by the left for it she backtracked and called the surge a failure. And by dissembling for Democratic candidates when they embarrass themselves, Media Muddles continues to diminish its own credibility (what there is of it).

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    • Author by bruce1ace (August 31, 2007 2:51 pm ET)
         

      Media Muddles?  I prefer Media Myrmidons myself.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by funnymanpants (August 31, 2007 3:02 pm ET)
         

      How embarrassing for the Union-Leader. Their own sources disprove their argument, and then, on top of that, they have to resort to name calling to prove their argument, and then say "continues to diminish its own credibility (what there is of it)." That sounds like a comment a blogger would make. 

      Very embarrassing.  

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Meremark (August 31, 2007 3:18 pm ET)
           

        Seeing Drew Cline, on newsprint, is a fool without information integrity, can expect that handicap transfers intact onto the internets blog screen.

        Such minds in misery have the company of editors at many blindly rightwing editorial pages -- this one, for example -- and as much as they dubya dubya dubya, they may seek to form a self-help group together, dinosaurs obsolete anonymous, DOA, or something.

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    • Author by itsbenj1158 (August 31, 2007 3:09 pm ET)
         

      Clinton should just be more clear and specific, but it seems pretty obvious to me that she could not at all have been referring to the "surge" in a March 15 interview!  Come on, any conservative can tell you that the "surge" hadn't even started by then!  Isn't that what they've been saying for the past 6 months?  'you can't criticize it because the troops aren't all there?'  in the meantime, of course, anything that looked like a success for 2 seconds was attributed to it, even though it hadn't begun...god these people are too stupid to live!~

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    • Author by lostlogic (August 31, 2007 3:13 pm ET)
         

      The Union Leaders editorial uses grade school name calling and logic.  There own sources provide details that weren't in the speech to the VFW clarifying Clinton's position and yet they still say nanna nanna boo boo were right your wrong...umm no you just did an excellant job of proving the other guys argument...better go back to the drawing board on this one.  I think it is pretty clear from all of Clinton's statements that she does not believe the surge is working to further the stability of the Iraqi government and realizing the bench marks set for them...and according to the GAO she is correct they have only made 2-3 of the 18 bench marks of success. 

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    • Author by nerzog (August 31, 2007 3:13 pm ET)
         

      Some of our homeboy Bush Apologists keep mindlessly repeating that the only new tactic is "the surge", despite evidence to the contrary. I guess feeble minds think alike.

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    • Author by nerzog (August 31, 2007 3:16 pm ET)
         

      I heard an interesting story this morning on BBC about Iraq. I wonder how many of the 30% crowd know that there are hundreds of thousands of Iraqis living in refugee camps? In fact, how many normal Americans know that? I haven't seen any stories about it in our media.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Meremark (August 31, 2007 3:24 pm ET)
           

        I've seen lots of stories about it, converging on a number between 2 million and 3 million Iraqis huddled homeless and dispossessed.

        I have NOT seen any of "our media."  Ignoring them saves me in pocket about 50 bucks a month.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by nerzog (August 31, 2007 3:38 pm ET)
             

          Here's the thing...how hard is it to recruit teenage boys living in those conditions? If some guy wanders in there and offers them food, something to do, and a gun...well, you see the problem.

          I wonder if they have to fill out one of those Al Qaeda "application forms?"

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    • Author by juliajayne (August 31, 2007 3:25 pm ET)
         

      If MMFA indeed muddles

      Then the Union Leader befuddles

      It's incompetent spin

      Shows what league it is in

      It's not fit to be in our huddle

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    • Author by pbg (August 31, 2007 3:30 pm ET)
         

      In a world where ordinarry people live, and a think like logic prevails much of the time, when someone says something controversial, and there's a dispute over it, you ASK HER what SHE MEANT.

      But the right treats the quote like a hockey puck. Pass back and forth to each other, keep it away from the other guys--and SCORE!

      Time after time after time...

      Obama wants to Invade Pakistan!

      Michelle Obama dis at Hillary!

      Fidel endorses Clinton/Obama!

      Hillary says the surge is working!

      In none of these ases are they being quoted accurately. In all the cases (except Fidel) they've sad what it was they meant--but no credence is given to the refutation.

      The Union Leader (who, on Joe McCarthy's death of cirrhosis of the liver, published the headline COMMUNISTS KILL JOE McCARTHY!) is playing this weird game of gotcha.

      Does Hillary think the Surge is working? They don't want to know.

      They've got their hockey puck.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by tommy (August 31, 2007 3:34 pm ET)
           

        Perhaps if the left held it's hockey puck with more ownership and didn't try to turn it into a football, it wouldn't get so easily tossed around by the other team.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (August 31, 2007 3:44 pm ET)
             

          Game, set, slam dunk and home run, Tommy.

          I didn't really get your point, I'm just impressed with the hybrid sports metaphors.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by dmcc9995 (August 31, 2007 4:36 pm ET)
             

          "People with too many arguments should always be approached with suspicion. Dialectic and endless reasoning are usually used as resistance against disagreeable truths"

           - This is a quote from a 1949 book by A M Merloo MD. titled Delusion and Mass-Delusion.

          TOMMY, every time you reiterate and recycle your bag of deflective talking-points (which seems to be at least once per topic) that comes to mind. Sorry, I can't help it - it's just such an uncannily accurate description of you.

          You spend so much time being contrarian here, I wonder if it's your profession - or your hobby. Either way, I think it's a waste.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by tommy (August 31, 2007 4:50 pm ET)
               

            "People with too many like opinions, parrotting one another endlessly, should always be approached with suspicion.  Rubberstamping and mindless reasonings are usually used as resistance against disagreeable truths"

            -This is a quote from Tommy, titled Delusional and more Delusional Liberals. 

            Feel free to use it anytime, free of charge.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by greekfurnace (August 31, 2007 6:06 pm ET)
                 

              You talking about 'liberals' or 'conservatives' here... I get confused.  Seems most of your comments today could be thrown at either.

              Report Abuse
            • Author by mefirst (August 31, 2007 8:14 pm ET)
                 

              i prefer tommy's books "why is this here, and even if it is misinformation the best way to deal with it is to ignore it",  editions 1 through 4,658. 

              Report Abuse
      • Author by lostlogic (August 31, 2007 4:11 pm ET)
           

        Well said PBG.  I would also go one step further in saying if all of these quotes were taken in contgext and the remainder of the comment/speech/article were read in full most times there wouldn't have been any need for clarification because reading past the one sentence would have been clarification enough.  An example would be Fidel--you only have to read it to know it was by no means an endorsement of any kind.

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    • Author by robotchubby (August 31, 2007 3:35 pm ET)
         

      It gives me great joy to think that Drew Cline checks out Media Matters to see if he is being taken to task and that when he finds this article, he can read all the contempt smart, thinking people have for him.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by johnrtorres638 (August 31, 2007 8:33 pm ET)
         

      "But the articles that Cline cited for support show that she attributed the progress in Iraq's Al Anbar province to U.S. agreements with local tribal leaders that began in September 2006."

       um... so HRC thinks that the tactics in Iraq have been working for about a year?  (or since Sept 2006!)

       This "argument" only makes HRC look like a bigger jackass.

       

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (August 31, 2007 11:18 pm ET)
           

        Is al Anbar region ALL of Iraq? I dont think it is and YOUR argument just makes you look like more of an idiot and that is quite a feat.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by johnrtorres638 (September 02, 2007 12:50 am ET)
             

          From www.openleft.com

           

          Hillary Clinton is upfront that she thinks Petraeus has made progress in Iraq with new military tactics, she's also upfront that she thinks that the surge can't work.  She also wants to leave troops in Iraq to continue the military progress Petraeus is making.  That's why I don't trust her on Iraq.  Here are some clipped comments from the AFL-CIO debate in which she nearly trips over herself discussing her withdrawal plan for Iraq, while offering a very confusing suggestion that we pursue Al Qaeda the way Petraeus is doing in Al Anbar province.

          ----------------------------------------

          I found this honest assessment of HRC's statements from a lefty source.  If only more leftists could be so honest.

           

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          • Author by funnymanpants (September 02, 2007 1:29 am ET)
               

            Except this source doesn't *prove* that Clinton believes the surge is working.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by johnrtorres638 (September 02, 2007 11:35 am ET)
                 

              What it does prove if that if you look at HRC's statement on this issue (or any other issue) you can never tell exactly what she means.  She is a slippery little weasel.  The fact is that the honest lefty knows that HRC is manipulating the left and trying to have it both ways.  Does HRC think that the "surge" is working?  Well, she doesn't use the word, but the clear implication of HRC's words is that the "tactics" are the current things that Petraeus  is doing to win the war in Iraq.

              The best proof of my claim that HRC is a dishonest weasel is to simply ask you guys on the left: What has HRC promised to do with regard to troop levels in Iraq is she gets elected POTUSA?  Will she bring them all home?  If she doesn't bring them all home, how many will remain in Iraq?  Go ahead and look at all her statements on this issue and see if there is a clear and consistent answer.

              My argument is that there is no clear answer to this question from HRC.  Is asking for a clear answer on one of the most important issues in this campaign asking to much?  Can we really afford another "it-all-depends-on-the-meaning-of-IS-is..." Clintons in the White House?

               

              Report Abuse
              • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (September 02, 2007 4:55 pm ET)
                   

                John, what does Bush have scheduled for January '09, regarding the troops?

                Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (September 03, 2007 7:52 am ET)
                   

                i would rather have a "what the meaning of is is" clinton than a "we had to invade because saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in" bush.

                Report Abuse
    • Author by ajwan (September 01, 2007 8:33 am ET)
         

      So did Drew Cline not read the articles he referred to because he is an idiot and is content to live in a fact free consersvative land of fanatasy, or did he read the article and purposely mis-represent the content because he is a dishonest man?

      He's an editor, he knows how to read, I believe he is dishonest.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by spectacles (September 01, 2007 7:07 pm ET)
         

      Thanks to MediaMatters for pursuing this issue. Unfortunately, you're going to be busy considering that sources on the right and the left and the middle *all* have lifted Clinton's remarks out of context and repeated them endlessly. Folks at HuffPo have been going ballistic about Hillary's "support" of Bush's surge. Unfortunately, they seem to be immune to any sort of reality check, like a complete transcript of her remarks.

       But I appreciate your efforts to set the record straight.

       

       

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    • Author by somedaysoon (September 03, 2007 11:35 am ET)
         

      I thought the reason for the surge was to stabilize Iraq so the legislators could make some much needed political compromises.  Since, the legislature left for the month, with little chance of any meeting of the minds to save their country when they start the next session.  Obviously, just another lie to salve the American public. 

      But the most disturbing part of this war is the total lack of remorse, accountablity, compassion for the young people lost in this fiasco.  Republicans seem to be so cavalier with the lives of GIs.  They send them into a meat grinder w/o any anxiety, fear, or regret.  Since the Iraq war cannot be won in the traditional sense they need to pull out now and save lives.

      I read recently that Nixon knew early in his term that the Vietnam war could not be won, but for political reasons he continued the war.  It cost the USA 25,000 plus lives and an unimaginable number of Vietamese lives.  And for what?  And it still is galling that the jackasses that started this mess did not have the courage to fight in Vietnam but can send other peoples sons and daughters there(Iraq).  If there was any justice all of the Bush administration, and the cheerleaders for the war were all given 15 months of grunt duty in Iraq. 

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