About us Login Get email updates
Research
Print

Wash. Post's Romano touted Petraeus' Iraq testimony as "the only report that matters now on the Hill"

September 06, 2007 7:51 pm ET
image

SUMMARY: During a washingtonpost.com online chat, Lois Romano asserted that "the only report that matters now on the Hill ... is the greatly anticipated report by General [David] Petraeus -- which will give assessment of the conflict" in Iraq, despite the fact that her own newspaper published a report noting challenges to the U.S. military's recent assertions -- and scrutinizing a specific claim Petraeus is expected to make -- that sectarian violence in Iraq is declining.

258 Comments

During a September 6 "Post Politics Hour" online chat on washingtonpost.com, Washington Post national political reporter Lois Romano asserted that "the only report that matters now on the Hill ... is the greatly anticipated report by [Army] General [David] Petraeus [commander of Multi-National Forces in Iraq] -- which will give assessment of the conflict" in Iraq. Romano was responding to a reader who asked whether CBS Evening News anchor Katie Couric's recent reporting from Iraq was being discussed on Capitol Hill. Romano later said that Petraeus' assessment of Iraq is significant on Capitol Hill because that is "the report that the politicians will latch onto and the media will emphasize." Romano added: "I don't mean to suggest the other reports are not important -- I think everything will be considered as a whole. But the Petraeus report will likely create the most fanfare." Romano made this claim on the same day that her own newspaper had published an article by Washington Post staff writer Karen DeYoung noting challenges to the U.S. military's recent assertions -- and scrutinizing a specific claim Petraeus is expected to make in his testimony to Congress -- that sectarian violence in Iraq is declining.

In that article, headlined, "Experts Doubt Drop In Violence in Iraq," DeYoung reported that in his upcoming testimony to Congress on the status of President Bush's Iraq troop increase plan, Petraeus "is expected to cite a 75 percent decrease in sectarian attacks." Citing a new report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), the article added that "[o]thers who have looked at the full range of U.S. government statistics on violence, however, accuse the military of cherry-picking positive indicators and caution that the numbers -- most of which are classified -- are often confusing and contradictory":

Reductions in violence form the centerpiece of the Bush administration's claim that its war strategy is working. In congressional testimony Monday, Army Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, is expected to cite a 75 percent decrease in sectarian attacks. According to senior U.S. military officials in Baghdad, overall attacks in Iraq were down to 960 a week in August, compared with 1,700 a week in June, and civilian casualties had fallen 17 percent between December 2006 and last month. Unofficial Iraqi figures show a similar decrease.

Others who have looked at the full range of U.S. government statistics on violence, however, accuse the military of cherry-picking positive indicators and caution that the numbers -- most of which are classified -- are often confusing and contradictory. "Let's just say that there are several different sources within the administration on violence, and those sources do not agree," Comptroller General David Walker told Congress on Tuesday in releasing a new Government Accountability Office report on Iraq.

Senior U.S. officers in Baghdad disputed the accuracy and conclusions of the largely negative GAO report, which they said had adopted a flawed counting methodology used by the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency. Many of those conclusions were also reflected in last month's pessimistic National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq.

The Post added that "the intelligence community has its own problems with military calculations" regarding violence in Iraq. It also reported that one unnamed "senior intelligence official" specifically took issue with how the military counts acts of sectarian violence, because, according to the military, "[i]f a bullet went through the back of the head, it's sectarian .... If it went through the front, it's criminal":

The intelligence community has its own problems with military calculations. Intelligence analysts computing aggregate levels of violence against civilians for the NIE puzzled over how the military designated attacks as combat, sectarian or criminal, according to one senior intelligence official in Washington. "If a bullet went through the back of the head, it's sectarian," the official said. "If it went through the front, it's criminal."

"Depending on which numbers you pick," he said, "you get a different outcome." Analysts found "trend lines ... going in different directions" compared with previous years, when numbers in different categories varied widely but trended in the same direction. "It began to look like spaghetti."

Moreover, the Post noted that Petraeus told The Australian newspaper "that sectarian attacks had decreased 75 percent 'since last year.' " However, the article also noted that, according to the Multi-National Force in Iraq (MNF-I), Petraeus compared his current figures with those of December 2006 and that, by March 2007, "before U.S. troop strength was increased under Bush's strategy," attacks had already dropped by at least 62.5 percent:

When Petraeus told an Australian newspaper last week that sectarian attacks had decreased 75 percent "since last year," the statistic was quickly e-mailed to U.S. journalists in a White House fact sheet. Asked for detail, MNF-I [Multi-National Force-Iraq] said that "last year" referred to December 2006, when attacks spiked to more than 1,600.

By March, however -- before U.S. troop strength was increased under Bush's strategy -- the number had dropped to 600, only slightly less than in the same month last year. That is about where it has remained in 2007, with what MNF-I said was a slight increase in April and May "but trending back down in June-July."

Petraeus's spokesman, Col. Steven A. Boylan, said he was certain that Petraeus had made a comparison with December in the interview with the Australian paper, which did not publish a direct Petraeus quote. No qualifier appeared in the White House fact sheet.

The Post further reported that Petraeus made an addition to the most recent National Intelligence Estimate which, according to Petraeus, "reflect[ed] recent improvements" in security. But the article added that "[a] senior military intelligence official in Baghdad deemed it 'odd' that 'marginal' security improvements were reflected in an estimate assessing the previous seven months and projecting the next six to 12 months":

When a member of the National Intelligence Council visited Baghdad this summer to review a draft of the intelligence estimate on Iraq, Petraeus argued that its negative judgments did not reflect recent improvements. At least one new sentence was added to the final version, noting that "overall attack levels across Iraq have fallen during seven of the last nine weeks."

A senior military intelligence official in Baghdad deemed it "odd" that "marginal" security improvements were reflected in an estimate assessing the previous seven months and projecting the next six to 12 months. He attributed the change to a desire to provide Petraeus with ammunition for his congressional testimony.

The intelligence official in Washington, however, described the Baghdad consultation as standard in the NIE drafting process and said that the "new information" did not change the estimate's conclusions. The overall assessment was that the security situation in Iraq since January "was still getting worse," he said, "but not as fast."

In addition to noting that statistics on violence in Iraq compiled by the Associated Press and the GAO contradict those of the military, the Post reported that according to MNF-I, the U.S. military's statistics on sectarian violence do not include Sunni vs. Sunni or Shiite vs. Shiite violence, "except in certain instances":

Among the most worrisome trends cited by the NIE was escalating warfare between rival Shiite militias in southern Iraq that has consumed the port city of Basra and resulted last month in the assassination of two southern provincial governors. According to a spokesman for the Baghdad headquarters of the Multi-National Force-Iraq (MNF-I), those attacks are not included in the military's statistics. "Given a lack of capability to accurately track Shiite-on-Shiite and Sunni-on-Sunni violence, except in certain instances," the spokesman said, "we do not track this data to any significant degree."

Attacks by U.S.-allied Sunni tribesmen -- recruited to battle Iraqis allied with al-Qaeda -- are also excluded from the U.S. military's calculation of violence levels.

[...]

Recent estimates by the media, outside groups and some government agencies have called the military's findings into question. The Associated Press last week counted 1,809 civilian deaths in August, making it the highest monthly total this year, with 27,564 civilians killed overall since the AP began collecting data in April 2005.

The GAO report found that "average number of daily attacks against civilians have remained unchanged from February to July 2007," a conclusion that the military said was skewed because it did not include dramatic, up-to-date information from August.

Media critic and blogger Greg Sargent recently noted that CNN anchor Kyra Phillips also hyped Petraeus' upcoming assessment of Iraq as more significant than other reports. During a September 4 discussion of the GAO's recently released progress report on Iraqi benchmarks -- which found that "[i]t is unclear whether sectarian violence in Iraq has decreased" -- Phillips asked if the GAO report "really hold[s] weight when everybody is really wanting to hear from General Petraeus and what he has to say?"

From the September 6 "Post Politics Hour" chat on washingtonpost.com:

Rockville, Md.: Did Couric's visit to Iraq for CBS Evening News made any impact on our views? I thought it much better than I expected. No "Dan Rather in the foxhole" that I expected. What do they say on the Hill?

washingtonpost.com: Iraq Tour of Duty Holds Surprises, 'No Heroics' for CBS's Katie Couric (Post, Sept. 4)

Lois Romano: I think the only report that matters now on the Hill right is the greatly anticipated report by General Petraeus--which will give assessment of the conflict. What Katie saw will have little impact on the process.

[...]

Anonymous:" I think the only report that matters now on the Hill right is the greatly anticipated report by General Petraeus -- which will give assessment of the conflict." Why do you think that is the case? It strikes me the other two reports released this week are exponentially more reliable and informative, so why is Petraeus's "the only report that matters"?

Lois Romano: Because it the report that the politicians will latch onto and the media will emphasize. I don't mean to suggest the other reports are not important- I think everything will be considered as a whole. But the Petraeus report will likely create the most fanfare.

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 7:59 pm ET)
         

      Petraeus' report doesn't matter one lick, because the democrat lock-steppers have already discredited it. Liberal tactics at their finest.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 8:11 pm ET)
           

        conservative reasoning at it's peak.  [or maybe valley?]   you guys get something right and you can talk. 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 8:19 pm ET)
             

          "iraq government near collapse, report says".

          http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/09/06/2007-09-06_iraq_government_near_collapse_secret_rep.html

          Report Abuse
        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 8:47 pm ET)
             

          Perhaps I'll just exercise my freedom of speech and talk whenever I feel like talking. That OK with you, Commandant?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 8:53 pm ET)
               

            let me rephrase it.  by "you can talk" i meant someone might actually think your point of view might be worth listening to, if you were to actually be correct.  that clear it up, ace?

            Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:51 am ET)
               

            Why not I enjoy inanity as much as the next guy.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by bittermarv (September 07, 2007 3:06 pm ET)
               

            Perhaps I'll just exercise my freedom of speech and talk whenever I feel like talking.

            As a conservative, you can do that.  As progressives, we get put into "free speech zones" by your president, blocked from attending his speeches, and kept out of his line of sight wherever he goes.

            Regardless, we progressives will persevere and match your speech with speech that is more meaningful, thoughtful, and caring toward our fellow citizens. 

            Report Abuse
        • Author by Sams Computer (September 07, 2007 12:14 pm ET)
             

          The Author of this report is GWB. George Bush's general will follow orders and deliver this Bush Report.

          This Report will be full of Bull Shi.... Uh... I mean Bull Corn. RepubliCan'ts will support it no matter what it says. We all know what it will say! I will say......

          STAY THE COURSE, So it shall be written... So it shall be done. By: The Decider - Girlie Man Bush.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by Brian in FL (September 06, 2007 8:39 pm ET)
           

        The report being written by the WHITE HOUSE is what has caused us to discredit it.

        http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pullback15aug15,0,4840766.story?page=1&coll=la-home-center

        The claims of "dramatic" drops in violence are bogus because the White House is cherry-picking the data.

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/05/AR2007090502466.html

        Read and learn.

        The Iraqi government is collapsing. The Sunni's have completely walked away from al Maliki's government. There is no reconciliation in site between the Shiites and Sunnis, and violence is even increasing in Kurdish regions. Yet you want to come here and attack us for not believing the re-packaged lies from the same administration that has lied to us over and over again.

        I'm sure you've believed all the lies this whole time, from Saddam posing a threat to our country, to his ties to Al Qaeda, to stockpiles of WMD, to the Iraqis welcoming us as liberators, to the insurgency being in it's "last throes", etc.

        Sorry, but the Bush administration no longer has any credibility to anyone with half a brain.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 8:52 pm ET)
             

          Sorry, but the Bush administration no longer has any credibility to anyone with half a brain.

          Wow! I'm sorry to hear that you and all of your half-brained cohorts have lost the faith. Those of us with both halves of our brains don't share your sentiment, however.

          BTW, what lies?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 8:54 pm ET)
               

            here's one.  bush said we had to invade because saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in.  that's a lie.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 9:37 pm ET)
                 

              Nope, he never said that. Check your source carefully. Next try.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by snoopy (September 06, 2007 9:47 pm ET)
                   

                Yes he did. But I'm really looking forward to the right wing pushing this general as another option for a republican candidate. General Betrayus. It has a ring to it...

                Report Abuse
                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:03 pm ET)
                     

                  No, he didn't.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 10:09 pm ET)
                       

                    did you miss the bush quote i posted?

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (September 06, 2007 10:09 pm ET)
                       

                    I know you are, but what am I?

                    yes he did.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:11 pm ET)
                         

                      "we had to invade because saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in."

                      Never said it.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by snoopy (September 06, 2007 10:13 pm ET)
                           

                        yes he did.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:18 pm ET)
                             

                          Link to the quote, please. I sure as hell can't find it.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by snoopy (September 06, 2007 10:29 pm ET)
                               

                            I guess you want exact wording. Lame!

                            "Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."[44]

                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 10:30 pm ET)
                               

                            i already provided the link to consortiumnews.   here is what bush said:  "we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in.  and therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power."   i said that bush claimed that we had to invade because saddam wouldn't let the inspectors in.   bush said what i said he did, and he lied.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:37 pm ET)
                                 

                              July 5, 2002. Case closed.

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 10:42 pm ET)
                                   

                                july 2003,  it's in the link.

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:50 pm ET)
                                     

                                  July 5, 2002-Iraq once again refuses to allow weapons inspectors into the country. Case closed.

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 10:58 pm ET)
                                       

                                    we're not talking about everything that went on before.  for the two months before the invasion, the inspectors were in iraq.  bush said we had to invade because saddam would not let them in.  they were there.  he lied.  

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 11:02 pm ET)
                                         

                                      So YOUR interpretation of the quote determines whether or not he lied?

                                      You're back-peddling.

                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 11:06 pm ET)
                                           

                                        there is no "interpretation" here.  the inspectors were there for two months before the invasion.  bush said saddam "would not let them in".  if they were there, then saddam let them in.   bush lied.  were the inspectors in iraq, yes or no?

                                        Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 9:50 pm ET)
                   

                oops.  scroll down to "obvious lie".   bush in july, 2003:   "we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in."

                http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/081904.html

                Report Abuse
                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:09 pm ET)
                     

                  "I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

                  Is he a liar, too? Come on, call him a liar!

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by loonz (September 06, 2007 10:19 pm ET)
                       

                    No.  It looks like he was assuming things.  1998 does not equal 2003.

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 10:19 pm ET)
                       

                    the claim was by bush that saddam would not let the inspectors in. he lied.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:36 pm ET)
                         

                      July 5, 2002.

                      How long are you gonna hold out on this stupid claim?

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (September 06, 2007 10:38 pm ET)
                           

                        Until Bush is tried in The Hague.

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 10:41 pm ET)
                           

                        "and he wouldn't let them in".  july 2003.   and he repeated it in jan 2004.  it's in the link.  he lied.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:52 pm ET)
                             

                          July 5, 2002 - Iraq ONCE AGAIN refuses to allow wepons inspectors into the country. Again, case closed. He didn't lie.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 10:59 pm ET)
                               

                            they were there before the invasion.  after the invasion, bush said saddam didn't let them in.  he lied.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 11:04 pm ET)
                                 

                              How many times before the war did Iraq refuse to allow the weapons inspectors to do their job? Maybe according to YOUR interpretation, he lied. But in the REAL WORLD, he didn't.

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 11:10 pm ET)
                                   

                                "he  wouldn't let them in".   they were there, going to the sites we told them to go to, and finding nothing.  bush lied.

                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:00 am ET)
                                   

                                He lied he made UP an IEAE report that never existed on Sept 7 2002 he lied about the aluminum tubes saying they could only be ues for gas centrifuges when our scientists completely refuted that. He is a liar and only by denying reality itself can you possibly deny it.

                                Report Abuse
                      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:58 am ET)
                           

                        Since it is absolutly true YOU are the one that is stupid.

                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (September 06, 2007 11:21 pm ET)
                       

                    aOOOOga! aOOOOga! Battle stations! Battle stations! Troll alert! I say again, troll alert! aOOOOga! aOOOOga!

                    Report Abuse
                • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (September 06, 2007 11:07 pm ET)
                     

                  Mefirst, did you notice after you provided the direct quote as requested by little J he then moves on to William Cohen? I keep saying they need to add ice to their kool-aid.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 11:14 pm ET)
                       

                    typical move, pearlene.  he can't defend one point so he has to move to another. 

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 11:15 pm ET)
                         

                      The point has been defended. You have been debunked.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by snoopy (September 06, 2007 11:18 pm ET)
                           

                        Really? By who?

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 11:33 pm ET)
                           

                        j4son, were the inspectors in iraq before the invasion?  yes or no?

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 12:01 am ET)
                             

                          Hmmmm.......let's see. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No again. Yes again. No again. Then HELL no. Then, OK, maybe. Then no. Then yes.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:08 am ET)
                               

                            In other words, you are wrong. You tried to repeating yourself in hopes of hiding that.

                            We aren't fooled. Bush lied.  

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:12 am ET)
                                 

                              Well, then I'm sure the democrat congress will move swiftly to have him impeached. Oh, wait...

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:15 am ET)
                                   

                                In other words, you have nothing. You are wrong. Bush lied. 

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:23 am ET)
                                     

                                  Your democrat congress doesn't seem to feel that way, do they? Does that make you angry?

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:31 am ET)
                                       

                                    I don't know what  you are talking about. There is no Democrat congress.

                                    Report Abuse
                                  • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:02 am ET)
                                       

                                    Your ReNAMBLAcan President is a LIAR does that make YOU mad?

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 9:03 am ET)
                                         

                                      It always cracks me up when you use the "ReNAMBLAcan" party comment as this group is clearly liberal in their views.  It also cracks me up because you have used that same "joke" over and over again.  It's old.

                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 9:19 am ET)
                                           

                                        So is the stupid Democrat party slur. And no they are NOT clearly liberal they are clearly sick and depraved. I think that makes them conservatives.

                                        Report Abuse
                                      • Author by bittermarv (September 07, 2007 3:10 pm ET)
                                           

                                        Foley sort of demonstrated that maybe it's not that much of a joke.

                                        Report Abuse
                                  • Author by T-Hone (September 07, 2007 7:59 am ET)
                                       

                                    Yeah, as a matter of fact, it DOES, indeed, make me angry that the Democrats (or even Republicans) don't try to impeach Bush.  I'm glad we see eye to eye that that is the next logical step!

                                    Report Abuse
                              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:01 am ET)
                                   

                                There is no such thing as a Democrat congress or party there is a DemocratIC party and a ReNAMBLAcan party.

                                Report Abuse
                      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:01 am ET)
                           

                        No he hasnt. Bush said that. It has been proven. YOU have been debunked completely get a grip

                        Report Abuse
              • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (September 06, 2007 11:01 pm ET)
                   

                Press Conference of the President James S. Brady Briefing Room March 21, 2006

                "I also saw a threat in Iraq. I was hoping to solve this problem diplomatically. That's why I went to the [United Nations] Security Council; that's why it was important to pass [Resolution] 1441, which was unanimously passed. And the world said, disarm, disclose, or face serious consequences -- and therefore, we worked with the world, we worked to make sure that Saddam Hussein heard the message of the world. And when he chose to deny inspectors, when he chose not to disclose [emphasis added], then I had the difficult decision to make to remove him. And we did, and the world is safer for it."

                Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:55 am ET)
                   

                Yes he did. Do you guys EVER know what you are talking about?

                http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030714-3.html

                The larger point is, and the fundamental question is, did Saddam Hussein have a weapons program? And the answer is, absolutely. And we gave him a chance to allow the inspectors in, and he wouldn't let them in. And, therefore, after a reasonable request, we decided to remove him from power, along with other nations, so as to make sure he was not a threat to the United States and our friends and allies in the region

                Just because Fox propaganda network didnt tell you doesnt mean it didnt happen.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by funnymanpants (September 06, 2007 9:21 pm ET)
               

            Aluminum tubes, those 16 words. Ring a bell?

            Oh, and by the way, over 60 percent of the country disapproves of Bush. I guess those people don't have both sides of their brains working (what an imaginative comment!).  

            Report Abuse
            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 9:52 pm ET)
                 

              Oh, yeah, the 16 words. Did you read the Butler report and the US Senate Intel Committee report, or did you just listen to Joe Wilson?

              BTW, 80% of Americans disapprove of the democrat controlled congress. One could say that the President is doing his job two times better than the democrat controlled Congress. That is, if you actually give poll numbers ANY credibility.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by snoopy (September 06, 2007 9:54 pm ET)
                   

                Oooh. 80% eh? That's ok, because 100% of americans disagree with the republicans in congress.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by loonz (September 06, 2007 10:15 pm ET)
                   

                "Oh, yeah, the 16 words. Did you read the Butler report and the US Senate Intel Committee report, or did you just listen to Joe Wilson?"

                I read some of the Butler Report.  It looks like they used a bunch of assumptions to come to their conclusions.

                What did the US Senate Intel Committee report say?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:21 pm ET)
                     

                  So you read SOME of the Butler report and you don't know what the Senate Intel Report said.

                  Both said, in regards to the 16 words, that even though they turned out to be wrong, President Bush DID NOT LIE.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by loonz (September 06, 2007 10:34 pm ET)
                       

                    "So you read SOME of the Butler report and you don't know what the Senate Intel Report said."

                    I read the pertinent parts of the Butler report.  The report lacks evidence to support its conclusion about the uranium claim.  That's why our intelligence agencies have distanced  themselves from the report.

                    What did the Senate report say? 

                     

                    "Both said, in regards to the 16 words, that even though they turned out to be wrong, President Bush DID NOT LIE."

                    Of course he did.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:39 pm ET)
                         

                      "The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow"

                      Did he lie when he said this?

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (September 06, 2007 10:46 pm ET)
                           

                        Did he make this claim after the inspectors said there were no weapons in Iraq? 

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 10:51 pm ET)
                             

                          Nope, it was before.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by loonz (September 06, 2007 11:01 pm ET)
                               

                            The statement is filled with a bunch of assumptions.  When the inspectors were in Iraq and couldn't find these weapons of mass destruction, all this rhetoric should have stopped but it continued.  Bush was going to invade Iraq no matter what and he should be tried in The Hague.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 11:06 pm ET)
                                 

                              Would you consider that statement a lie or not?

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by loonz (September 06, 2007 11:29 pm ET)
                                   

                                I would call it a broad assumption which is done all the time (that Cohen quote you posted was a broad assumption).  What were the specific claims about the weapons (ex. Bush lied when he said the aluminum tubes could only be used for a nuclear weapon which was contradictory to intelligence reports)?

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 06, 2007 11:53 pm ET)
                                     

                                  George Bush made that quote less than a week before the invasion. Lie or not?

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 12:08 am ET)
                                       

                                    Of course he lied then.  The inspectors were on the ground in Iraq and no matter where they looked, weapons of mass destruction were nowhere to be found.

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 12:22 am ET)
                                         

                                      Ooohhhh, my bad. That was Bill Clinton's quote, but I'm sure you'll say that he "was making a broad assumption." Like when Bush, Blair, Blix, Butler, and the ENTIRE UN SECURITY COUNCIL were all "making a broad assumption" when they said that Iraq's "cooperation" was nothing more than an appeasement move (which turned out to be remarkably true). Funny, though, you tippie-toed around answering whether the quote was a lie or not until I said (again, my bad. I LIED) that George Bush said it. Then, all of the sudden, you scream "LIES, LIES". Leftist mantra - All things Bush are bad.

                                      Give it up, losers! Bush will NOT BE IMPEACHED (unlike Clinton), because he DID NOT LIE (unlike Clinton)!!

                                      Oh, Al Gore and John Kerry? THEY BOTH LOST!!

                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 12:43 am ET)
                                           

                                        "That was Bill Clinton's quote, but I'm sure you'll say that he "was making a broad assumption."

                                        I said it was an assumption a couple of posts ago.  Try to keep up.

                                        "Like when Bush, Blair, Blix, Butler, and the ENTIRE UN SECURITY COUNCIL were all "making a broad assumption""

                                        The only one who lied was Bush.  He made specific claims about Iraq that no other country made.  All the claims about nuclear weapons and Al Qaeda connections came solely from the Bush administration.  All other countries were concerned about weapons that were unaccounted for from the eighties.  The inspectors were on the ground to verify that those weapons were no longer in Saddam's possession.

                                        "Funny, though, you tippie-toed around answering whether the quote was a lie or not until I said (again, my bad. I LIED) that George Bush said it. Then, all of the sudden, you scream "LIES, LIES". Leftist mantra - All things Bush are bad."

                                        If Bush made a claim like that with the inspectors on the ground in Iraq contradicting him then he lied.  Again, try to keep up.

                                        "Give it up, losers! Bush will NOT BE IMPEACHED (unlike Clinton), because he DID NOT LIE (unlike Clinton)!!"

                                        Of course he lied and the p*ssy Democrats in Congress won't impeach him. 

                                        Oh, Al Gore and John Kerry? THEY BOTH LOST!!

                                        Gore won; Kerry lost.

                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:00 am ET)
                                             

                                          Nice explaination. How about this? If Bush lied (like Clinton), then why hasn't he been impeached yet (like Clinton)? Why hasn't the "Impeach Bush" movement gotten anywhere? The democrat party is so full of hate for Bush one wonders why they haven't taken advantage of this golden opportunity to have him removed from office. That would guarantee democrat control of all branches for God knows how long, so why don't they jump on it? It's because they CAN'T, because HE DIDN'T LIE!! If he had, they would have tossed his ass 3 years ago! Like I said before, give it up!!

                                          This is a great read:

                                          http://www.rightwingnews.com/quotes/demsonwmds.php

                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:11 am ET)
                                               

                                            That is absolutely bizzare reasoning. Because Bush hasn't been impeached, that means he didn't lie? Are you possibly serious? 

                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:16 am ET)
                                                 

                                              What I'm saying is that the democrat party, so full of loathing and hatred for George Bush, would SURELY move to impeach the President IF HE IN FACT LIED his way into the war. The result would be a democrat congress and white house possibly for decades to come. Why would they pass up this chance? If it's SOOOOO obvious that he lied, why don't they do anything?

                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:22 am ET)
                                                   

                                                What you are saying makes no sense. I don't know of any Democrat party. There is a Democratic party, but their not impeaching him has nothing to do with whether or not Bush told the truth. Are you really serious? 

                                                Report Abuse
                                                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:26 am ET)
                                                     

                                                  If it's so blatant that he lied, if it's so obvious that any moonbat with an internet connection can PROVE his guilt, why is the democrat party giving him a free pass?

                                                  Report Abuse
                                                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:28 am ET)
                                                     

                                                  In fact, if he DID lie, congress has an OBLIGATION to impeach him.

                                                  Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:35 am ET)
                                                       

                                                    Again, you are making no sense. 

                                                    Bush lied and you are wrong.  

                                                    Report Abuse
                                                  • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:19 am ET)
                                                       

                                                    I think so too. Them not doing what I think they should is irrelvant to the FACT that Bush lied. In fact lying is what he does, the man lies like most people breathe.

                                                    Report Abuse
                                              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:16 am ET)
                                                   

                                                What I am saying is the ReNAMBLAcan president lied. The ReNAMBLAcans in congress protected him until 06 now the democrats in Congress are making a political decision. Your whining and false characterization about the loathing of Bush is just a stupid baselss assertion. Just because the Democrats in Congess havent decided to impeach is NOT evidence the ReNAMBLAcan President didnt lie which he absolutly and without a doubt DID.

                                                Report Abuse
                                          • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 1:15 am ET)
                                               

                                            "Nice explaination. How about this? If Bush lied (like Clinton), then why hasn't he been impeached yet (like Clinton)?"

                                            Why would I want Clinton impeached?   He didn't start the war; that was all Bush.

                                            A president can lie with impunity.  But when people start dying, he has to be held accountable.

                                            "It's because they CAN'T,"

                                            It's because they won't. 

                                            "because HE DIDN'T LIE!!"

                                            Of course he lied.

                                            "If he had, they would have tossed his ass 3 years ago! Like I said before, give it up!!"

                                            The republicans were going to toss him out?

                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 1:20 am ET)
                                                 

                                              "Nice explaination. How about this? If Bush lied (like Clinton), then why hasn't he been impeached yet (like Clinton)?"

                                              I misread this.

                                              I already answered this:  The Democrats in Congress are a bunch of p*ssies.

                                              Report Abuse
                                            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:31 am ET)
                                                 

                                              A president can lie with impunity.  But when people start dying, he has to be held accountable.

                                              Tell that to Vince Foster's widow.

                                              Report Abuse
                                              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:38 am ET)
                                                   

                                                Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

                                                You are really, really ridiculous. Now this is funny! You really believe that Clinton murdered Vince Foster?

                                                Are you really serious?  

                                                Report Abuse
                                              • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 1:42 am ET)
                                                   

                                                "Tell that to Vince Foster's widow."

                                                Why?

                                                Report Abuse
                                              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:20 am ET)
                                                   

                                                What does Vince Fosters suicide have to do with this or are you really moronic enough to be peddling this Clinton killed Vince Foster bilge. I thought even on Planet Wingnut they gave up on that one.

                                                Report Abuse
                                          • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:13 am ET)
                                               

                                            The ReNAMBLAcan president LIED absolutly there is no question about it. Whether or not to impeach is as much a political question as anything. Raygun could have been impeached there was absolute evidence he violated the Boland Amendment, they decided against it. NOT impeaching is NOT evidence that the ReNAMBLAcan president didnt lie he absolutly did, it cannot be denied without denying reality itself. He lied when he made up the IAEA report the bogus Aluminum tubes claim and when he said we invaded Iraq because they wouldnt let the inspectors in. Ya got nothin. You can keep acting like a petulant child but you have been shown to be flat out wrong and just keep flailing about with weaker and weaker non arguments.

                                            Report Abuse
                                      • Author by tex (September 07, 2007 9:08 am ET)
                                           

                                        JASON:

                                        Bringing up quotes from 1998 from the Clinton Administration about WMD does you no good at all. Why? Because Clinton DID SOMETHING about those suspicions; he launched the largest bombing effort since VietNam, targeting all known and suspected sites having to do with the making or storage of WMDs. Working with the military, Clinton ordered those military strikes, based on the best intelligence available, and all those targets were hit.

                                        Meanwhile, the brave Republicans were whining about "WAG THE DOG," hoping to undermine the President's positive actions against potential threats to the USA.

                                        Did Clinton manage to wipe out all WMDs in Iraq in 1998? Apparently so, because BUSH could find NONE.

                                        I recognize your mindless support of Bush, Jason, as that of a simple zealot. But even a zealot should recognize when all the facts refute his claims. You continue to think the facts SUPPORT you, and they clearly do not. 

                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 9:18 am ET)
                                             

                                          "...he launched the largest bombing effort since VietNam, targeting all known and suspected sites having to do with the making or storage of WMDs. Working with the military, Clinton ordered those military strikes, based on the best intelligence available, and all those targets were hit."

                                                                                 -Tex

                                          So let me get this straight, Clinton launched a bombing effort .......Bush took action as well.

                                          Clinton targeted known and suspected (meaning he didn't know for sure) sites having to do with the making and storage of WMDs.....so did Bush.

                                          Clinton worked with the military.....so is Bush.

                                          Clinton ordered military strikes....so did Bush.

                                          Clinton used the best intelligence available and struck the targets.....so did/is Bush.

                                          I just don't understand why Clinton is seen as such a hero in these instances, and Bush is seen as the scum of the earth for acting in the same fashion.  Both acted based on their very best intelligence, and their acts were to benefit the security of this country. 

                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 9:23 am ET)
                                               

                                            Well for one thing Clinton DID use the best intelligence available and Bush STOPPED the best intelligence available by kicking the inspectors out of Iraq and as has been shown told the CIA they didnt CARE about intelligence anymore it was about regime change. Also targeted strikes at military targets is quite a bit different than an INVASION. A whole lot more civilians have been killed by the invasion than would EVER have been killed if such targetted strikes went on for ten more years.

                                            Report Abuse
                                          • Author by tex (September 07, 2007 11:32 pm ET)
                                               

                                            SMITTY has a question:

                                            "I just don't understand why Clinton is seen as such a hero in these instances, and Bush is seen as the scum of the earth for acting in the same fashion.  Both acted based on their very best intelligence, and their acts were to benefit the security of this country."

                                            RESPONSE: Look at it this way. Two houses are infested with roaches, and both owners call different exterminators. One exterminator uses insecticides which target only the pests, and with precision. Plus, he checked first to make sure there WERE roaches there.

                                            The second exterminator takes a different tact. He doesn't bother to check if there are roaches (there weren't any), he simply burns the house to the ground with the family inside.

                                            Now, you COULD say that both approaches were EQUAL, and should be judged equally, because both saw a problem and addressed it. But that's just utterly simplistic and inaccurate, isn't it? It doesn't begin to tell the entire story, does it? But it does serve one purpose: It exonerates the second exterminator, by saying he's "just like" the other exterminator.

                                            Are you really this dense, SMITTY? Do you really think Jeffrey Dahrmer and Billy Graham are equal and identical, because both are male humans? That's your "logic" ... and it's putrid. 

                                            Report Abuse
                                        • Author by onionhead (September 07, 2007 11:28 am ET)
                                             

                                          There was no evidence that Saddam reconstituted his military program after the first invasion in 1991. 

                                          If Clinton dropped bombs for no apparent reason then he should be tried for war crimes alongside Bush.

                                          I'm not trying to sound like "redking", but I am not going to protect or justify anybody just because they have a D next to their name.

                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 11:41 am ET)
                                               

                                            Agree.

                                            Report Abuse
                                          • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 12:38 pm ET)
                                               

                                            A good point. Actually at the time I was appalled by the bombings because Iraq was NOT in violation of the agreed upon procedures and pulling the inspectors out stank of a set up. I havent seen enough evidence to be sure that it was a set up but is didnt pass the smell test. I cant say for certain that Clinton didnt believe there were still WMDs in Iraq but I didnt like the way it was handled. When it came out that the CIA WAS using UNMOVIC to spy that was upsetting too. Still a targetted bombing is not an invasion.

                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by onionhead (September 07, 2007 1:00 pm ET)
                                                 

                                              True, it wasn't an invasion and I'd still take Clinton over Bush in a heartbeat. 

                                              And even though I disagree with Tex on this one, I will say he is one of the most thoughtful and intelligent posters on this site.  

                                              Report Abuse
              • Author by loonz (September 06, 2007 10:25 pm ET)
                   

                BTW, 80% of Americans disapprove of the democrat controlled congress. One could say that the President is doing his job two times better than the democrat controlled Congress. That is, if you actually give poll numbers ANY credibility.

                This just proves republicans are lemmings.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:19 am ET)
                   

                The Butler report was considered a snow job by the Britains. Certainly it gave no proof of why the 16 words by Bush were warranted.

                The Senate Intel Report mentioned  that in the Fall, the CIA put little faith behind the Britain claim. Bush ended apologizing for those 16 words.

                And the aluminum tubes are another matter, which you didn't address. Colin Powell stated that we, the US, believe that the aluminum tubes could only be used for centrifugal devices. It turns out Powell didn't speak the truth. In fact, the State Dept  had determined quite the opposite, something Powell didn't share with the UN.  

                Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:05 am ET)
                   

                The Butler report was CYA, I listen to the FACTS since there is no way Niger COULD sell uranium, since the entire industry is controlled by an international consortium. Since we found a letter IN Baghdad where the Congo OFFERED to sell uramium to Iraq and they refused I dont believe it neither does the CIA nor DID they since they had Bush remove the SAME claim from his Cincinati speech a month BEFORE the SOTU it doesnt pass the laugh test. Do you ever know what you are talking about or do you just listen to rightwing bloviators for your WRONG information?

                Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:07 am ET)
                   

                I could say the ReNAMBLAcan President is a liar and the American people know it.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (September 06, 2007 10:56 pm ET)
               

            What lies, he says WHAT LIES?

            How about:

            Bush: "We're Kicking Ass" In Iraq

            Report Abuse
          • Author by Sams Computer (September 07, 2007 8:26 pm ET)
               

            J-4 SAYS WHAT LIES???

            If he/she has to ask that question about Bush, then I won't honor J-4's dishonesty with an answer.

            Go away J-4.... Please go away. No one here should waste any electricity and valuable time on your ignorant question.

            Stop watching Fox for your info. Find more reliable news outlets. Then come back and ask some educated questions based on facts.

            Thanks

            Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:50 am ET)
           

        It matters in context, it just isnt the ONLY report that matters, as much as the ReNAMBLAcan lets get as many Americans killed as we possibly can cons wish it were. There is also that pesky GAO report.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by oldmarine (September 06, 2007 11:24 pm ET)
         

      This topic is totally worn out: “Things are worse in Iraq than what the administration is telling us” say the Democrats and their supporters in the media.  “Things are a lot better than the Democrats will admit” say the Republicans.  This kind of nit-picking back in WWII regarding, say, the fiasco at the Kasserine Pass, our abandonment of the Philippines, or in the disastrous Naval battles in the early days of Guadal Canal would not have been tolerated  - because back then, virtually everyone in the country put partisan politics aside and pulled together to win the war.

       

      Following Afghanistan (a fantastic success given the odds established by the Soviets in the 80’s against being able to dominate that country militarily), Iraq was the next logical attack for our side in the GWOT:  (1) Saddam was clearly hell bent on the pursuit of WMD’s.  (Most of the good stuff was trucked to Syria prior to the U.S. invasion.  This has been verified both by overhead intel and the fact that the Syrian sponsored terrorists used Iraqi made chemical weapons in a thwarted attack on Jordon just months after our invasion of Iraq).  (2) There were umpteen UN resolutions against Saddam and all agreed that he was a dire threat to Middle East stability (i.e. the OIL SUPPLY!), and (3) Following our turning tail and running after the fiasco in Mogadishu, we needed to kick some Islamist (now, don’t get excited, that’s “Islamist” not “Islamic”  -  there’s a huge distinction between the two) butt.

       

      Had we planned properly and had the MP force needed to clamp down on looters, we wouldn’t have made such a mess of the occupation afterwards.  But we did and it’s done and thanks to the blood of a lot of American patriots, we have a victorious end in sight.  So, now that we’re here, the Iraqis are having success taking their streets back from Al Qaeda and the Iranian-sponsored Shiite militia, why can’t all of us get with the program and pull together to win this war?  Is it really doing our cause any good to sit around and whine about mistakes and point the finger of blame?

       

      Is it just that some still don’t recognize the fact that we ARE in a war or is it because political advantage for some trumps the national interests?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by mefirst (September 06, 2007 11:44 pm ET)
           

        was it for "political advantage" when the republicans ran ads against senator max cleland, a vietnam triple amputee, which showed pictures of bin ladin and cleland on the same screen?   and shouldn't a guy like you denounce that?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 12:01 am ET)
           

        "This kind of nit-picking back in WWII"

        The only thing you can compare this to regarding WW2 is Hitler's invasion of Poland.

        "Saddam was clearly hell bent on the pursuit of WMD’s.  (Most of the good stuff was trucked to Syria prior to the U.S. invasion.  This has been verified both by overhead intel and the fact that the Syrian sponsored terrorists used Iraqi made chemical weapons in a thwarted attack on Jordon just months after our invasion of Iraq)."

        Don't you think if any of this were true, the administration would play it up?  Wouldn't our intelligence agencies write a report touting this theory?

        "There were umpteen UN resolutions against Saddam and all agreed that he was a dire threat to Middle East stability (i.e. the OIL SUPPLY!), and"

        Saddam was a dire threat if he had weapons.  Even if we believed your "Weapons to Syria" theory, Saddam was not in possessions of any weapons at the time of Bush's invasion.

        And we need to get off of oil anyway.

        "Following our turning tail and running after the fiasco in Mogadishu, we needed to kick some Islamist (now, don’t get excited, that’s “Islamist” not “Islamic”  -  there’s a huge distinction between the two) butt."

        The only thing that would have accomplished was getting more people killed.

        "Had we planned properly and had the MP force needed to clamp down on looters, we wouldn’t have made such a mess of the occupation afterwards."

        We could have avoided all this if Bush hadn't invaded Iraq.

        "Is it just that some still don’t recognize the fact that we ARE in a war or is it because political advantage for some trumps the national interests?"

        The Iraqis can take care of their own country.  We have no national interests there.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 12:03 am ET)
             

          Yeah, screw those Iraqi children! They don't deserve freedom anyway!

          Report Abuse
          • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 12:23 am ET)
               

            Yeah, screw those Iraqi children! They don't deserve freedom anyway!

            They were screwed when Bush turned their country upside-down.

            All the Iraqis needed was some monetary and munitions' support to take out a despot who had a feebly military and no weapons to attack them with.  Bush decided to go on this adventure in Iraq for American oil interests and this is not lost upon the Iraqis.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 12:36 am ET)
                 

              The same Iraqis that elected Saddam by a 100% margin of victory? The same Iraqis that lived in absolute fear of being killed if they uttered one word of dissent toward the regime? The same Iraqis that lived in deplorable conditions under Saddam for almost 30 years and did absolutely nothing to try and oust him? Those Iraqis would have taken him out of power? Yeah, right!

              Report Abuse
          • Author by mary59 (September 07, 2007 12:30 am ET)
               

            I wish you really cared about Iraqi children. 

            Perhaps you haven't heard that the British Medical Service is estimating that there are one million Iraqi civilians killed since the U.S. invasion.  Do you have even the slightest idea what kind of life the children in Iraq have now, with little to no electricity or clean water?

            The worst part is that you have no idea what kind of leaders you have been supporting; that they had no plan for occupation other than making a profit and imposing a government that would support multi-national corporate looting.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 12:43 am ET)
                 

              Who's making a profit off of this war except for the Iraqi people? Who? Haliburton? Don't even go there with me. BTW, my statement about the Iraqi children was SARCASM in response to LOONY's statement that the Iraqis can take care of themselves. Truth is that they can't. Not yet. They've lived under Saddam for 30 years. You can't expect them to instantly grasp concepts such as freedom, personal initiative, entrepeneurship. Kind of like when a prisoner gets released after a long haul in the big house. They can't function on their own because they've known nothing but confinement for so long.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 1:02 am ET)
                   

                "You can't expect them to instantly grasp concepts such as freedom, personal initiative, entrepeneurship."

                It's up to the Iraqis to decide what direction their country takes.  Did it ever cross your mind that the Iraqis may not want an American style democracy or were you blinded by your republican arrogance?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:04 am ET)
                     

                  America is NOT a democracy, meat head!

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:13 am ET)
                       

                    Yes, really funny. America is not a democracy. Then you resort to name calling. 

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:22 am ET)
                         

                      Well, Loonz called me a Republican. He started it. Anyway, how can we expect the Iraqis to know what they want, when all they've EVER known is tyranny. We're not FORCING democracy on them (thank God), we're giving them the freedom to learn to be free!

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:29 am ET)
                           

                        How would the Iraqis know what they want? Well, they are adults, and they can read and have access to the internet. That is how.

                        As to giving them freedom, we have unleashed a civil war in their country. Our policy of bombing and then of de-Bathification, with little thought of the results, have made Iraq into a bloodbath where people don't even feel safe to walk the streets. That isn't freedom.  

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 1:36 am ET)
                           

                        Anyway, how can we expect the Iraqis to know what they want,

                        This is pure arrogance.

                        when all they've EVER known is tyranny.  We're not FORCING democracy on them (thank God), we're giving them the freedom to learn to be free!

                        This is what Bush did when he invaded their country.

                        And the Iraqis will decide which direction their country takes.  We shouldn't be in their country. 

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:32 am ET)
                           

                        How would the Iraqis know what they want? You are such a condescending jerk for a moron. There are a whole lot of adults in Iraq, they know for sure they want us GONE. But then I am sure you know so much better than they do what they want. Get over yourself.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by christopher howard (September 07, 2007 4:29 pm ET)
                             

                          "Who's making a profit off of this war except for the Iraqi people? Who? Haliburton? Don't even go there with me."

                          Why on Earth not?  

                          Report Abuse
                  • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 1:28 am ET)
                       

                    "America is NOT a democracy, meat head!"

                    You're right.  It's a constitutionally limited Democratic republic.

                    I'll rephrase it:

                    Did it ever cross your mind that the Iraqis may not want to be Americanized or were you blinded by your republican arrogance?

                     

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:30 am ET)
                       

                    YOU are a complete moron. If American is not a democracy there is no such thing in the entire world. A democratic Republic is generally considered a Democracy. You are far to stupid to be taken seriously

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by Sams Computer (September 07, 2007 9:00 pm ET)
                       

                    Hello J-4 ....

                    There's only one thing lower than many of your comments and ugly name calling....

                    WHALE POOP!!

                    On second thought you're even lower than Whale Poo Poo. But keep it up, it shows your desperate lack of redeemable character traits.

                    You might learn something from great comments here posted by Conservatives, Liberals, and others. --- Good Luck !

                    Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:28 am ET)
               

            We werent very interested in the Iraqi children while Saddam was our ally. Are we going to invade the entire world and bring the freedom? If so we really ought to have started with Central Africa where about 4 million people were killed in the 5 years previous to our invasion of Iraq or Guatemala where we wouldnt have to invade just put political pressure on them. IF we have been so worried about bringing freedom to people why did we overthrow DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED governments in Brazil, Guatemala, Iran and Chile and install dictatorships. Your post was lame.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by onionhead (September 07, 2007 12:43 pm ET)
               

            Dude Congratulations!

            You have managed to rehash every falsified bit of data used to justify the invasion of Iraq in a single thread!

            You have single-handedly taken trolling to a new level.  You have clogged this thread with so much B.S. that now the entire MMFA website is giving off a strange odor.

            I thought that this level of B.S. would have been achieved by either Copius, Leather, or Nick12many. But, man, you showed them who is King Troll!

            How do you do all this and still find the time to stay so misinformed?

             

            Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:25 am ET)
           

        You are a delusional koolaid drinking brainwashed propaganda parrot. Repeat all the long ago refuted nonsense you want it wont change reality. There is not the slightest evidence that WMDs that both Kay and Duelfer BOTH SAID DIDNT EXIST were moved anywhere the a dog ate my WMDs excuse is lame. Your brainwashed nonsense has no conection with reality whatsoever.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 1:43 am ET)
         

      Since I've b*tch-slapped every single one of you repeatedly, I see that you won't change your minds. Try not to drool when you chant "Bush lied, kids died". Ask yourself one thing: If the legally elected President of the United States of America, George W. Bush, lied his way into an illegal war (as you moonbats claim) and committed war-crimes, crimes against humanity, so on and so on, then the United States Congress has an absolute LEGAL obligation to hold him accountable for his crimes and remove him from office. To date, a Republican controlled Congress has failed this obligation AND a democrat controlled Congress has failed this obligation, as well. Why is he still in office?

      The answer is simple. He commited no crime. He didn't lie. He didn't mislead. Congress authorized the war. The UN passed 1441 unanimously. EVERY single piece of intel gave cause to remove Saddam. The war is justified, and you don't like it.

      Make sure you have a box of tissue ready when the truth sets in, 'cause you're gonna cry.

      I'm taking my fat, white, male, independently wealthy, medically insured, employed, heterosexual behind to bed tonight with a big smile on my face. See ya.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by loonz (September 07, 2007 1:53 am ET)
           

        "If the legally elected President of the United States of America"

        He wasn't elected; he was installed by the Supreme Court.

        "To date, a Republican controlled Congress has failed this obligation AND a democrat controlled Congress has failed this obligation, as well. Why is he still in office?"

        Dereliction of duty.  All their asses should be thrown out.

        "The answer is simple. He commited no crime.  He didn't lie. He didn't mislead."

        Of course he did.

        "Congress authorized the war."

        Bush made the decision to invade; no one in Congress did.

        "The UN passed 1441 unanimously."

        And this means what?

        "EVERY single piece of intel gave cause to remove Saddam. The war is justified, and you don't like it."

        This is a lie.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 1:57 am ET)
           

        Yes, and you also think Vince Foster was murdered by Clinton. And you are expected to be taken seriously. Whatever. 

        Whether or not congress impeaches Bush has nothing to do with whether he lied. That assertion is completely bizarre. I am not going to get into the politics of why congress has not impeached Bush, since it would simply take the argument off topic, and has absolutely no bearing on your claim. According to your logic, only 2 presidents have lied, Andrew Johnson and Clinton, because they were the only two presidents impeached. That must mean that Lyndon B. Johnson didn't lie about the Gulf of Tonken, and that we have had the most truthful politicians in history.

        Like I said, your defense is bizarre the result that we have documented where Bush has lied. Not able to refute what we have posted (except by troll-like behaviour), you resort to a logical fallacy, that if congress doesn't take a certain action, then a person is telling the truth. Apparently, you don't understand cause and effect. But whatever, you also believe that Clinton murdered Vince Foster.

        >>The UN passed 1441 unanimously. EVERY single piece of intel gave cause to remove Saddam. The war is justified, and you don't like it.

        That is a new argument you have introduced before slinking off to bed in a false triumphant note. It is legally false. The last line of resolution 1441 stated that the UN security council remained "seized of the matter." That is legal speak for saying that they would determine what happened next. Nothing in 1441 explicitly authorized war, and if you know how the UN worked, you would know that you need an explicit authorization for war to make it legal. For example, look at the resolution that allowed the first Gulf War. It was very specific.

        As for the rest of your post, it is just trash talking, which posters use when they have lost an argument. We  have seen it here done a hundred times, so you are not even original.  

        Report Abuse
      • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 2:04 am ET)
           

        See the above two posts, ladies and gentlemen. Loonz and Foreignmanpants (outside of the US, huh?) have completely exposed the twisted liberal mind at work. Bravo, gentlemen, bravo!! Yeah, I know, Bush lied. Prove it to Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi then.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 2:16 am ET)
             

          You really are funny! Please don't go away, because we are having such a good time!

          I thought  you were going off to bed?

          And this is the best argument you have, just name calling? Don't you realize that name calling and trash talking are not arguments?

          By the way, do you care to comment on why you think Clinton murdered Vince Foster? It would amuse us to see your thinking. So please, please stick around! 

          Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:40 am ET)
             

          Your ignorance is monumental. You have been taken apart and are too much of a moron to even know it. Your depraved and perverted conservative stupidity is apparant to us all.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:36 am ET)
           

        My GOD you are ignorant. The liberals here have mopped the FLOOR with you. That you are too stupid to get that is astonishing. I have never seen anyone so proud of being a bone ignorant moron. My HOUSEPLANT could make better arguments. My tropical fish are smarter than you. You need to wake up, ignorant, arrogant and brainwashed is no way to go through life. Come back and get waxed anytime you insufferable moron.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 9:29 am ET)
             

          And this post is why no one takes you seriously.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by MHK (September 07, 2007 10:13 am ET)
               

            There are really only few types of people that come to this site that I don't take seriously....  People that speak for other people and not for themselves (like you just did) , people that make broad generalizations about people ( all Democrats think XXX, all Republicans think YYY)  and finally  people like j4sonl33 / that need to declare themselves the winner in an argument.  If your argument is good enough then it would be obvious who is the winner and no amount of grandstanding, back patting or insults are going to change that.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by lostlogic (September 07, 2007 10:17 am ET)
               

            Speak for yourself smitty. I think Solon has earnewd respect here and he provides reasonable and well reasoned arguments to support his positions.  We may not always agree but Solon always has my respect and he always responds to me with respect and reason.  You will find Solon (as is the case with many here) respond in kind to how they are being responded to.  J4 really doesn't deserve any respect he spouts off silly name calling and no facts and declares himself the "winner".  Geeze he can't even see the inconsistencey of his argument that since under his logic since Bush has not been impeached that means he didn't do anything wrong but apparently even though Foster's suicide has been investigated numerous times and declared a suicide he claims the clinton's killed him...under his logic since they weren't charged they are innocent...but since he has no logic I guess we can't be too harsh on him that he can't even follow his own twisted arguments. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 10:32 am ET)
                 

              Thank you LL I appreciate the support

              Report Abuse
            • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 12:46 pm ET)
                 

              Listen, I haven't knocked on Solon's ability to respond with credible information and a good argument.  I'm quite certain he can do so, and I've read posts where he has done just that.  However, he lowers himself too often to the level of spewing insults and calling people "morons" and "stupid".  If he wants to continue to do so, that's fine, but it's really difficult to converse with posters like him, or to even take him seriously.  Obviously, posters will disagree on these forums, but making a productive argument and speaking civilly to other Americans has no room for belittleling and name calling.  I'm not saying I am completely innocent of this, but with the frequency that Solon does? I'm not in that boat.  I will disagree with you, no doubt.  But can it respectful, most certainly.  I'm sure Solon has earned your respect, but I prefer to give them respect right off the bat without them needing to "earn" it.  Retaliating in the same manner in which you despise doesn't help a conversation/situation.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 2:03 pm ET)
                   

                Yes, Smitty, you do like to use insults, I've noticed.

                Did you notice the insulting tone of J4, and his clogging up the thread with utter nonsense, and then declaring himself the winner of an argument? Do you not see why someone might want to respond to him in kind?  

                Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 10:30 am ET)
               

            Sure because since he is a con its fine for him to talk about us drooling or having twisted liberal minds but MY insults are over the top. Sorry you are biased and have no credibility on who is and who isnt taken seriously here or anywhere else.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 12:54 pm ET)
                 

              This is precisely why I don't take you seriously.  I respect people from the get go. They don't have to "earn" it.  I can respect your views and your arguments, but as I posted to LL, you resort to name calling all too often.  That is only my opinion.  I have read some of your posts that offer good insight and a reasonable explanation for what you believe and think.  But I've read way too many of your posts that belittle someone.  What is your purpose of doing so?  Does making fun of them open their eyes somehow to their "stupidity" as you put it, and now they will forever see clearly and liberally?  We're going to disagree on issues, that I'm certain of, but when we start bashing each other, then we're both backpeddling and looking foolish.  I admit, I'm right leaning, but I also like to believe I can think for myself and not take everything that is handed to me from rightwing figures and sources.  I won't blindly accept what they offer.  But come on, extend a little of what you expect in return.  You certainly won't always get it, but you can always give it, and that I respect way more than someone retaliating because "they started it."

              Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 3:01 pm ET)
                   

                Not to put too fine a point on it but I dont stay up nights worrying about what you think of me. Again you have no credibility on the issue. You take me to task quite often but I havent seen you criticise Jason for HIS insults or the OTHER rightwingers who insult us before I return serve. Rest assured I will continue to post as I see fit that is a dead certainty. As of now to me you look like another conservative snivelling that the rightwingers are not afforded the exclusive franchise on personal attacks. It looks to me like you ONLY take exception to ME doing it and have no real problem when the Jasons on this site do exactly the same thing. Jason has no problem dishing it out and not a peep from you then when he gets it back its all this phony outrage. I couldnt care less what you think

                Report Abuse
                • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 3:27 pm ET)
                     

                  If you couldn't care less, then you wouldn't have responded.  As for others who attack, I'll take your word seriously. I'm not always the most unbiased. I grabbed on to your remarks pretty strongly, I won't refute that. The fact that you instantly consider me a sniveling conservative who doesn't think properly is a bit unfair, but you're entitled to that opinion. I wasn't only referring to J4sons comments. I have noticed you repeatedly bashing those who don't agree with you, but that is my entitled opinion I guess.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 4:51 pm ET)
                       

                    First you assume facts not in evidence. I respond to posts it amuses me to respond to. That doesnt mean I care in the least. And NO you havent seen me repeatedly bash posters who disagree with me you have seen me repeatedly bash posters that bash me, or liberals or others on the site or the site. In other words those who GO ad hominem should expect nothing else. Again you only seem to take me to task and have no care whatsoever to the rightwingers who dish it out so to me that IS snivelling. I have seen it over and over. The rightwingers dish it out then whine like little girls when they are treated as they treat us. It really isnt my fault you are falling into that pattern

                    Report Abuse
          • Author by onionhead (September 07, 2007 2:32 pm ET)
               

            Now I have never met Solon nor his tropical fish.  But after reading J4son's posts, I do have to believe that Solon's tropical fish are indeed smarter than J4son.

            Report Abuse
      • Author by Missouri Democrat (September 07, 2007 10:41 am ET)
           

        Guys notice how he stressed his "fat, white, independently wealthy, employed, medically insured, heterosexual butt to bed". In real english that translates to "I'm none of the above and I live in mommy's basement, while desperately looking for a job that will pay me what I deserve since I want to start at the top of the ladder and not work my way up." But I will give him credit he probably is pretty fat because he sits in front of his computer spewing rightwing nonsense instead of actually looking for a job and maybe getting some exercise.  What a loon this one is.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (September 07, 2007 12:29 pm ET)
           

        Oh, that's too funny! You lost every single argument due to the presented facts, and you think you won! Be sure to suck your thumb and hold that security blanket real tight when you sleep. Should I send over a teddy bear?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by Blueneck (September 07, 2007 12:30 pm ET)
           

        "I'm taking my fat, white, male, independently wealthy, medically insured, employed, heterosexual behind to bed tonight with a big smile on my face."

        Thanks for clearing that up. It explains a lot. A recent French study correlates obesity with cognitive decline. Try a little exercise.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by Sams Computer (September 08, 2007 9:49 am ET)
           

        Teeee Four (T-4).....

        Please do take your Big Ugly Buttox, Aloofness, Arrogance and Blind RepubliCan'tism to your lonely bedroom.

        I don't have to venture far to say that like Bush, you won't sleep very well. Like Bush you will cry yourself to sleep because you know in your heart of hearts that you Bush and the cherished RepubliCan't party is in a steep and painful decline. And rightfully so.

        At 2:17 am you'll wake up and say to yourself.... Oh God! What a total blind partison jerk I am. If we don't make some big changes, corrections and appologies fast, a female woman and a black man are going be in control of the White House. Oh God, and Bill Clinton will be Best Man.

        Good Night TEEE FOUR - And Good Luck

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Sams Computer (September 08, 2007 9:56 am ET)
             

          Correction... That reply is to:

          Jay-Four (J4) - - - Not Tee-Four (T4)

          On all else, I'm sticken to my story.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by mary59 (September 07, 2007 10:08 am ET)
         

      I believe Jason (Friday the 13th fame?) said he brought up Iraqi children and freedom to make a sarcastic comment.  How sad; it appears he does not really care at all about Iraqi children and their suffering under the occupation.

      He also doesn't want to discuss the looting of Iraq by Bushco & his corporate donors.

      He is not concerned that all the stupid chatter about "progress" is smoke and mirrors.  He thinks an ancient culture that thrived millenia ago must be forced to become a western style democracy and by wishing it so it could happen.

      He believes that insults and condescension have something to do with debate.   

      Report Abuse
    • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 12:36 pm ET)
         

      Why isn't this the only report that matters?  Didn't we trust this new plan into his hands and ask that he go and implement the plan and come back with a good report on our progress and the progress of the "surge"?  Why are we now turning on Patraeus?  Enough with the specualtion of "oh, he will certainly give a favorable report for Reps. and Bush because he's on Bush's side."  Give the man a chance to report what he has observed and witnessed with his own eyes.  He is a veteran military leader, so lay off of him until he reports.  The man isn't even off the battle field yet and we're already ripping him for what he may/may not report.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 12:41 pm ET)
           

        The reason this is not the only report that matters is that the GAO report that recently came out was mandated by the same law that mandated the Petreas report so it ALSO matters.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 1:39 pm ET)
             

          I'm not saying the GAO report should not be taken into consideration.  According to them, the DHS has failed to meet but half of their specified requirements since 2003.  What they assess is important.  But on this particular issue, I believe Patraeus report should hold the most weight as to the progress of our current efforts in Iraq.  I would hate to think that politicians here in DC can better tell us the condition of the situation than Gen. Patraeus.  I can see why anyone would be a slightly annoyed that the White House will be reporting the general's words.  It would be hard to think that there won't be a slight spin in the news.  However, I do think that if the situation is worse, that our elected officials (that includes Bush, his administration, and the entire Congress) will have ours and our soldiers best interest in mind when dealing with the current situation.  I agree that the GAO should have a report, and it should carry some weight, but I would want Gen. Patraeus words to be the loudest when it comes to reporting on how we're doing.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 2:11 pm ET)
               

            General Patraeus report should be given the least credence, namely because it is not delivered by a disinterested source. Patraeus has a reason for wanting us to believe the surge has worked, in the same way President Bush wants us to believe that his policies are a success. Accepting Patreaus report at face value is like asking an employee to evaluate his own job performance.

            In addition, the White House is going to write the report--not Patraeus. That is another reason not to accept it at face value.

            Also, Patraeus has already been caught making up wild figures, such as the sectarian violence is down 75%. He can't back up this figure. Is there any reason to trust him.

            Last, we have all the data we need to assess the situation in Iraq. We have the GAO report, an NIE report, and statistics of deaths from independent sources. They all show  that the violence is up in all areas, and the government has collapsed.  Patraeus cannot counter these facts, though he will certainly try in his propaganda rollout. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 2:46 pm ET)
                 

              See, this is precisely the problem.  We have it all made up in our minds.  You haven't heard a single word from his report, and you already know exactly what you think of what he will say.  With everything I have heard and read, I find it hard to believe that anything the General says will satisfy liberals.  We have all got to give this man the benefit of the doubt, that he isn't toying with his men's lives and looking to gain political favor.  I simply refuse to believe he is in that position and would be that immoral.  I choose to believe the word of the man who has been on the ground where everything is happening rather than reports from agencies here in the US.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 3:38 pm ET)
                   

                See, this is the problem. You refuse to acknowledge any of the arguments I make in my post about why we shouldn't believe Petreaus, but instead revert to the same mindless generizations we saw before the war. 

                Before the war we were told to give Bush the benefit of the doubt, that the WMDs were there.

                How did that turn out? 

                Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 3:06 pm ET)
               

            OK you think the Petreas report should be given more wieght fine but your original question was THIS

            Why isn't this the only report that matters? 

            That is what I answered as to whether one should be given more wieght than the other it is a matter of opinion. The GAO is a nonpartisan government fact finding arm and I think it should be given much wieght. THIS is a matter of opinion and in matters of opinion debate is useless. I think it FACTUAL that it is not the ONLY report that matters.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by christopher howard (September 07, 2007 4:08 pm ET)
                 

              Moreover, this is just the latest in a long series of delaying tactics by the Bush Administration. How many other upcoming reports were we supposed to respect as the critical turning point? The president keeps talking about how we all need to "wait for Petraeus" before rendering judgment, as if he [Bush] doesn't have the faintest idea of what is going to be in the report. Another six months, another Friedman Unit. Look for the report to be the usual mix of "there's tough work ahead but things are looking up" followed by admonitions that we just need to give the newest plan a chance. I've seen this show before.

              Report Abuse
      • Author by mary59 (September 07, 2007 12:49 pm ET)
           

        Not only that, but according to the linked article, Patraeus will not be writing the report:

        "The Bush administration has been trying for months to restore its credibility on Iraq (as well as stall for time) by focusing on Petraeus -- President Bush's "main man" in Iraq -- and his report to Congress. But now it turns out it that White House aides will actually write the "Petraeus Report," not the general himself."

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2007/08/16/BL2007081601003.html

        Report Abuse
    • Author by bkboase3653 (September 07, 2007 2:03 pm ET)
         

       "I can see why anyone would be a slightly annoyed that the White House will be reporting the general's words.  It would be hard to think that there won't be a slight spin in the news. "

      Smitty,

      Granted, I'm probably a good deal more cynical than you in this area, but given all the water that has run under the bridge on Iraq, do you really truthfully believe the spin from this admin will only be "slight"?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 2:40 pm ET)
           

        You know, I've got to believe in the officials we (maybe not yourself) have elected to run this country.  If they were completely and utterly corrupt, I tend to believe we would have no doubt about that and they would no longer be leading this country, much less have made it to this point in their careers without ticking off too many people.  With all the public criticism and pressure from Congress, I think Bush will take Patraeus' words to heart and deliver a true update.  It will most certainly not please everyone, but what does? 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 3:13 pm ET)
             

          You have framed this as a false dichotomy. The only two choices are not either completely truthful or utterly corrupt. Many of those in the Bush adminstration are Straussians. Have you heard of the Straussian concept of the 'noble lie"? It has to do with the elites knowing better than us what is good for us so sometimes they have to lie to us lesser mortals in order for us to do the right thing. Its not that Bush is in the pay of al Queda and is trying to destroy us. Rather that he BELIEVES this is the right thing and is willing to do unethical things to get us to go along. That is not utterly corrupt another possibility is that he wont be lyings rather just like in the runup to the war cherry picking and ignoring inconvienient facts to get to the conclusion he wants this is not utter corruption. Also this is a pattern we have SEEN from him so its not unreasonable to expect it again. I am not judging the report yet, I am only saying we have reason to be skeptical. Also we have information as was posted from the GAO report the NIE report independent sources and they tell us a lot.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by smittymatt16 (September 07, 2007 3:37 pm ET)
               

            Fair enough, however, I'm weary of Dems completely discrediting the report altogether because they believe Bush/Patraeus/any conservative is completely corrupt.  As for the Straussian ideology, I have read on this. I do feel that whoever is elected into the presidency is granted liberty to withhold certain information. You may find this absurd, but I think it is necessary.  Whether a Dem or Rep holds the office, the last thing they need is 300 million Americans all expressing their desire for how the country should be run.  Is it completely fair, no....is it the best we can have....possibly.  If I elect Solon into the presidency, then I certainly hope that we can accept the fact that the majority of America wanted you there, and will allow you liberties to do the job we elected you to do. 

            Report Abuse
            • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 3:42 pm ET)
                 

              >>I do feel that whoever is elected into the presidency is granted liberty to withhold certain information. You may find this absurd, but I think it is necessary.  Whether a Dem or Rep holds the office, the last thing they need is 300 million Americans all expressing their desire for how the country should be run.

              Then you are against democracy, plain and simple. I am for democracy. Maybe you would be better off in a country like North Korea, where they have a dictatorship?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 4:43 pm ET)
                   

                If you are FOR democracy, than you are truly a danger to INDIVIDUAL rights (which, by the way, are the ONLY rights extended by the Constitution.) Think before you type: Democracy means "will of the majority". That's a frightening concept.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 4:47 pm ET)
                     

                  Wrong.

                  You are a troll who exposed yourself on the other thread.

                  Vince Foster indeed.  

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 4:51 pm ET)
                       

                    Wrong about what? Democracy is NOT the will of the majority? Then what is it?

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 4:53 pm ET)
                         

                      Sorry, but you have no interest in an honest argument. You have exposed yourself in the other thread as a troll of the worst type.

                      Vince Foster.  

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:00 pm ET)
                           

                        Sorry, but you have no interest in an honest argument.

                        That's why I like coming here. You guys are ANYTHING BUT honest.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:02 pm ET)
                             

                          Sorry, but I'm not taking your bait. You exposed yourself in the last exchange as a troll of the worst type.

                          And you believe that Clinton murdered Vince Foster.  

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:06 pm ET)
                               

                            I never said that Clinton murdered Vince Foster. Maybe you are thinking of somebody else.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:11 pm ET)
                                 

                              Ahhhh, liberals. Always the defeatists. They've thrown Katie under the bus to stick to their lock-step mantra......."BUSH IS BAD. IRAQ IS A QUAGMIRE".....makes me pray that Hillary "I had Vince Foster murdered and all I got was this lousy Senate seat" Clinton starts remarking on how well things are going in Iraq. But alas, the party line is "Demonize the Bush administration whenever possible".j

                              J4sonl33 / Thursday September 6, 2007 08:24:51 PM EST

                              See, you're a troll, exactly like I said.  

                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:13 pm ET)
                                 

                              You are dishonest you said of Hillary I killed Vince Foster and all I got was this Senate seat or something very like that.

                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:26 pm ET)
                                 

                              Thanks for proving yourselves wrong. Again, I never said "Clinton murdered Vince Foster". Can't you guys read?

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:27 pm ET)
                                   

                                See, you are a troll.

                                And you think Clinton murdered Vince Foster.  

                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:36 pm ET)
                                   

                                Makes me think that Jason "I am a moron without a single functioning braincell" the troll isnt worth my time. But I DIDNT call you a moron. At least by YOUR logic and I appologize to real logic for the comparison. You are dishonest. THAT was the only thing proven. That and you are a troll

                                Report Abuse
                • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:09 pm ET)
                     

                  You NEVER know what you are talking about you pretend the ONLY definition of democracy is one that would entail a pure democracy but it doesnt work that way.

                  http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?search=democracy

                  1. free and equal representation of people: the free and equal right of every person to participate in a system of government, often practiced by electing representatives of the people by the majority of the people2. democratic nation: a country with a government that has been elected freely and equally by all its citizensBy YOUR definition democracy doesnt exist and we shouldnt even use the word. Notice nothing in the definition precludes the majority from being constrained by a constitution which protects individual liberty. You are such a troll. You THINK you had some gotcha because as usual you are spouting talking points without really knowing what you are talking about. 

                   

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:21 pm ET)
                       

                    Bad news for you, Solong. The people DON'T elect the President. And, as the Government was ORIGINALLY crafted, they didn't elect Senators, either. History will show that the day the people started electing Senators was the day our country started to bleed.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:23 pm ET)
                         

                      That was the day that presidents started murdering people, like Clinton murdered Vince Foster. 

                      You are a troll and not interested in any honest argument.  

                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:29 pm ET)
                         

                      Worse news for you moron. They elect them NOW. And the president ISNT A representative and the majority DOES elect the REPRESENTATIVES. You really arent very good at this, you do get that dont you? Bone ignorance is Not conducive to winning debates, which is why we keep taking you apart.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:48 pm ET)
                           

                        First of all, I never claimed that the President was a representative. You weren't paying attention. I merely stated that the executive branch of government is NOT elected by a majority of the people, therefore is NOT obligated to adhere to the will of the majority. Therefore, America as a nation, is NOT a democracy.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:50 pm ET)
                             

                          How's the book coming on Vince Foster, Jason? Got the manuscript all typed up and ready for the press?

                          I think you should add a chapter on how America is not a democracy. That will get be as believable as your conspiracy theory.  

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 6:03 pm ET)
                               

                            Find ONE founding document that establishes the United States as a democratic ANYHING. Find me a State of the Union address prior to FDR that contains the word "democracy". You won't find it, because America is not, and never was intended to be, a democracy.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 6:17 pm ET)
                                 

                              Jason, you think Clinton murdered Vince Foster. I say go for all the crazziness you can. Then later, you can, to quote your words "B**tch" slap us." 

                              You are a troll not interested in an honest argument. You have already exposed yourself.  

                              Report Abuse
                            • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:17 pm ET)
                                 

                              You still have NOTHING. WE all know they didnt want a pure democacy. So WHAT. I posted the definitions of what we consider the word to mean today and it FITS the US. Spin all you want it wont change the fact that just because we arent a pure democracy, which doesnt exist ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD, that it is incorrect to describe our country as a democracy. By the common understanding of the word by the dictionary definition of the word it IS correct to use it to describe the US.

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 6:25 pm ET)
                                   

                                See Solon. See Solon exude confidence. See Solon get debunked. See Solon back-pedal. See Solon realize that his statements are wrong. See Solon get furious and start spewing obscenities at his computer monitor. This is the best thread ever!!!

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 6:29 pm ET)
                                     

                                  Yup, keep up the trolling. The same type of behaviour as in the last argument.

                                  But Clinton murdered Vince Foster.  

                                  Report Abuse
                                • Author by solon (September 08, 2007 2:23 pm ET)
                                     

                                  See Jason, see him state nonsense. See his argument completely destroyed. See Jason continue to repeat same garbage. See Jason be too ignorant to understand his argument has been completely destroyed. See Jason forget to take his medication and ramble on. Jason is a moron.

                                  Report Abuse
                        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:54 pm ET)
                             

                          Oh, and there is no Constitutional right to vote, either. See, NOT a democracy.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:55 pm ET)
                               

                            Sure, Jason. You keep writing that book on Vince Foster. When it gets published, you can have the last laugh at all us lefties.

                            Report Abuse
                          • Author by tex (September 07, 2007 11:52 pm ET)
                               

                            JASON:

                            You need to get a memo to the White House. President Bush continues making an ass of himself by touting this "democracy" thing that you say is non-existent.

                            President Bush: "Time after time, observers have questioned whether this country, or that people, or this group, are "ready" for democracy -- as if freedom were a prize you win for meeting our own Western standards of progress. In fact, the daily work of democracy itself is the path of progress. It teaches cooperation, the free exchange of ideas, and the peaceful resolution of differences. As men and women are showing, from Bangladesh to Botswana, to Mongolia, it is the practice of democracy that makes a nation ready for democracy, and every nation can start on this path."

                             [link to www.whitehouse.gov] God, Jason, how could our president be so damn ignorant, that he keeps talking about "spreading democracy" when we have none to spread, according to YOU? Can you REACH this president and tell him to quit telling such outlandish LIES? 

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by funnymanpants (September 08, 2007 12:01 am ET)
                                 

                              I don't think it is worth while to engage Jason. He is really a troll.

                              However, the liberterian argument comes up again and again that the US is not a democracy based on very narrow definitions and sophistry. I doubt many political professors would agree that the US is not a democracy. 

                              In order to determine what a democracy is, you would have to set up benchmarks for how much influence the people have on the government. In Europe, the people have a greater influence than here. But certainly, the people have quite a bit of influence in the US as well. For example, if the president was not elected by popular vote, he wouldn't craft policies to please, or to seem to please, citizens. I would like to see a candidate try to get elected by not getting most votes; and I would like to see a first term president try to get re-elected by simply ignoring the people.

                              There is probably a good study somewhere that compares the amount of democracy in different countries.  

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by funnymanpants (September 08, 2007 12:15 am ET)
                                   

                                 Okay, a quick google search brought up this:

                                http://www.worldaudit.org/democracy.htm 

                                Out of 150 countries, the US is ranked 15th.

                                The rank was determined by this standard: 

                                The essentials to create a platform for democratic choice are: Justice for all: uncontaminated by special interests, clan loyalties or bribes; with judges at all levels independent of the nation's executive arm.  Freedom of Speech: as exemplified by media activities - and we would still value the Sharansky test (see below);  Human Rights: expressed by the absence of arbitrary arrest and confinement; the superiority of due process, the illegality of torture and to avoid semantic hair-splitting, similar "maltreatment".  Public Corruption: most nations have laws against corruption but only in genuine democracies are these enforced against the bigger players - and not always then, as shown by the recent British example of arms sales to Saudi Arabia, which had an investigation of big-time corruption arbitrarily shut down by UK government fiat.  The Political Right to Vote is only meaningful in transparently honest elections, with genuine voter choice of parties and people. 

                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by funnymanpants (September 08, 2007 12:20 am ET)
                                   

                                And this source, from The Economist, ranks the US 17th, one of only 27 countries it considers a full democracy.

                                http://www.economist.com/markets/rankings/displaystory.cfm?story_id=8908438 

                                 

                                 

                                Report Abuse
                        • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:55 pm ET)
                             

                          He is indirectly elected by the majority just like the Prime Minister is in Britian. You have no point. The definition of democracy clearly applies to the US YOUR weak and limited version would apply to NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. The common usage of the word leaves the US as considered a democracy. You THINK you have a gotcha but you DONT, you just dont understand the meaning of the word. You have been brainwashed by a rightwing talking point and now that it is in your head dynamite cant get it out even though it is WRONG.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 6:06 pm ET)
                               

                            Then why didn't Al Gore win the election? After all, the majority of the people voted for him.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 6:12 pm ET)
                                 

                              The I said indirectly it sometimes happens that the people get the shaft in a close vote it has happened before however there isnt any questioning the fact that the President IS indirectly elected by the people. Each state is carried BY an election by the people. Since it is indirect this can happen that doesnt change a thing. Anyone that can READ can see the definitions FIT the US and as I said NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD fits YOUR definition. The common usage of the word would include the US. Argue semantics all you want YOU ARE FLAT OUT WRONG. Ya got nothin and you arent convincing ANYONE.

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 6:20 pm ET)
                                   

                                Yes, that is exactly right. You can play semantics game and claim that the New England Patriots are not a football team. (Do they have it on their jerseys? Do they!) Or that a computer is meant is to crash because it crashes occasionally.

                                But at the end, if you are right, troll will ignored your argument.

                                Then again, he believes Vince Foster was murdered by Clinton, then denies he said it.

                                Troll!  

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 6:29 pm ET)
                                     

                                  OK, it's obvious that you CAN'T READ!! Show me some PROOF that the US was designed to be a democracy! You can't do it and you know it!!

                                  So you keep calling me a troll. Oh, hurt my feelings, why don't you.

                                  But then again, you think that Bush lied. You are a moonbat.

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 6:33 pm ET)
                                       

                                    See, there you go. You have no interest in arguing honestly. 

                                    You are a troll, and you believe Vince Foster was murdered by Clinton.

                                    And you expect to be taken seriously.  

                                    Report Abuse
                                  • Author by solon (September 08, 2007 2:28 pm ET)
                                       

                                    The other posters are right. You are a troll. At this point you are either too ignorant to understand your argument has been completely destroyed. I notice you didnt adress the articles by political organizations that designated the US as a democracy. Just like when you claimed it was illegal to fire someone in the US for being gay you then ignored the news stories I posted ABOUT people being fired for being gay and a lawfirm in South Carolina explaining WHY it was legal to fire someone for being gay. Either you are too stupid to GET when you have been proven wrong or you just enjoy taking a thread off topic and arguing even when you KNOW you are wrong because you are both ignorant and enjoy being annoying either way you should be banned for being nothing but a troll and arent worth my time

                                    Report Abuse
                              • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 6:21 pm ET)
                                   

                                IF the US were meant to be a democracy of ANY sort, don't you think that the word "democracy" or "democratic" would appear in the founding documents of this country? But alas, NO mention of the word at all!! America was NEVER intended to operate on the basis of democracy. YOU are wrong. But, you have the chance to prove yourself right, if you can. But I suspect that you will just say "No, YOU'RE wrong", and call me a bunch of names. That's your M.O. and that's fine.

                                I find it hilarious that, like 50 posts ago, you said that I wasn't worth your time and FunnyHotPants said he wouldn't take my bait. Yet, you guys just can't help yourselves. I love it!

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 6:27 pm ET)
                                     

                                  Yup, you are a troll.

                                  How's the book on Vince Foster coming?

                                  Why don't you just say that you have "bi**ch slapped us" and declare yourself the winner?  

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 6:34 pm ET)
                                       

                                    Oh, I think it's obvious that I've delivered the literary "b*tch slap". Just look at your recent replies.

                                    I didn't say that Clinton killed Vince Foster. I do believe that the Clintons HAD Foster killed.

                                    Then again, you think Bush lied. You are a moonbat.

                                    Report Abuse
                                    • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 6:37 pm ET)
                                         

                                      Huh. This is funny. Yes, I've been b**tched slapped again! 

                                      And Clinton murdered Vince Foster. Keep up the real deep thinking. You have certainly earned our respect around here.

                                      What a troll! 

                                      Report Abuse
                                      • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 6:56 pm ET)
                                           

                                        Thanks for repeatedly proving me right!! You just don't know what to say when you're up against the wall, you just shout the same thing over and over again. "Bush lied, kids died. Bush lied, kids died." Then some "troll" like me says "He lied about what?" Then, predictably, you spout off about "16 words, WMD, weapons inspectors, aluminum pipes, etc." knowing FULL WELL that each and every statement that the President made has been researched and investigated into the ground and every single investigation says the exact same thing: Bush didn't lie.

                                        Well, this makes you mad. At this point you KNOW that you're wrong. But you are consumed with hatred of everything Bush. So you follow the leftist playbook and say "Those reports mean NOTHING!! Right-wingers got to the committees and cherry-picked information to make BushCo look good!!"

                                        There, see how clever you are, you are smarter than EVERY intelligence agency in the country and even some agencies abroad. You are so intelligent and connected. Now you can just blow off all of the discredited intel and reports and go back to your happy place: "Bush lied, kids died"!

                                        This is the liberal mind at work. So full of emotion and hate for the Bush administration that FACT and LOGIC get ignored, you stick your fingers in your ears and go "Lalalalalala, Bush lied, I don't care what you say, Bush is bad, lalalalalala".

                                        Man it sure is fun to spin you guys up.

                                        Report Abuse
                                        • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 7:02 pm ET)
                                             

                                          Sure Jason. We are emotional and illogical, yet you post sentences with two exclamations after them. (!!).

                                          And you are so logical that you think Vince Foster was killed by Clinton, and then deny having said this.

                                          Really, you are funny.  

                                          Report Abuse
                                          • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 7:11 pm ET)
                                               

                                            Dude, that is so weak.

                                            Report Abuse
                                            • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 7:31 pm ET)
                                                 

                                              Huh. Sure troll.

                                              Keep working on that book on Vince Foster.

                                              By the way, I don't understand. I thought Hillary and Vince were lovers, so she wouldn't have had them murdered? I can't keep up with the story.  

                                              Report Abuse
            • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 4:59 pm ET)
                 

              So you agree with the noble lie concept. I dont, I find it unbearably arrogant and antithetical to democracy. Also 300 million Americans telling the government what policy should be is what I like to call participatory democracy. And NO they have a right to with hold military and state secrets nothing more then cannot tell me well I have information but I wont give it to you but trust me and go along with my policies that is a prescription for cutting the people completely out of the loop. You sound like the report the Trilateral comission did in the 70s called the Crisis OF democracy where they decried the very idea of the public, we the bewildered herd taking ANY part in policy decisions. Again antithetical to democracy. I know this is a republic but it is a democratic republic and it was set up so that WE not this or any other administration is the TOP LAYER of government. The president works for ME I dont work for him. The things he finds out in his job are work product and the boss and client are entitled to work product. No ONLY state secrets can be kept from us. I know that isnt how it works but it should be that is WHY we have a FOIA. He cannot with hold information from me then expect my support. I am not a blind servile zombie who will just follow along. I have seen the government lie to me far too many times.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:05 pm ET)
                   

                I know this is a republic but it is a democratic republic...

                Try "Representative Republic" conducted through parliamentary procedure. Democracy doesn't even factor into the equation. This system was NEVER set up to be democratic in ANY way.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:15 pm ET)
                     

                  Vince Foster. You are a troll.

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:17 pm ET)
                     

                  What part of

                  the free and equal right of every person to participate in a system of government, often practiced by electing representatives of the people by the majority of the people

                  DONT you understand?

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:21 pm ET)
                       

                    You are correct, Solon, but I wouldn't engage the troll. This is what the troll posted earlier:

                    Since I've b*tch-slapped every single one of you repeatedly, I see that you won't change your minds. Try not to drool when you chant "Bush lied, kids died".

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:24 pm ET)
                         

                      You are right. He is being nothing more than a troll. Notice when we PROVE he is flat out wrong he just comes back and CLAIMS he was right anyway or runs away then comes back later just as arrogant and just as WRONG as before. Your posted claim was AFTER we mopped the floor with the guy. Its sad and pathetic.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:26 pm ET)
                           

                        Yup. But he sure loves his Vince Foster conspiray theory. He must be a real enteluctual!

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:35 pm ET)
                             

                          Let me sit back for a moment and enjoy the irony of this post. Tickles my enteluct!!

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:40 pm ET)
                               

                            Yes, please do. You are probably stupid you think I intentionally spelled intellectual wrong. I wondered if I should have put in parenthesis: (PS: the misspelling was intentional). But then I decided you would get it.

                            I gave you too much credit.

                            And you believe that Clinton murdered Vince Foster.

                            You are a troll.  

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 5:41 pm ET)
                                 

                              Well, I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt until I saw conspiray.

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 5:43 pm ET)
                                   

                                Like I said: you are a troll. You

                                And you think Clinton murdered Vince Foster.  

                                Report Abuse
                              • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:45 pm ET)
                                   

                                That isnt a mispelling its a typo, he missed the c otherwise it is spelled correctly go back to your bridge troll.

                                Report Abuse
                          • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:41 pm ET)
                               

                            Wow you are even dumber than I thought and that is a real feat. Didnt recognize the satire and thought he actually mispelled the word did you? How sad is THAT?

                            Report Abuse
        • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 4:50 pm ET)
             

          Right. Nothing Bush has done shows he heeds public pressure or that he listens to the truth.

          WMDs?  

          Report Abuse
    • Author by mary59 (September 07, 2007 5:25 pm ET)
         

      Worth repeating:  the report that Patraeus delivers will not be written by him; it will be written by the White House staff.  They have already admitted as much.  How then is it going to be truthful at all?

      They are counting on the Con game to continue. 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (September 07, 2007 5:32 pm ET)
           

        Thanks for that link. That is an important point and one to keep in mind. If we expected an unbiased report because he is military and NOT a Bushco, well, that just doesnt apply anymore.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 6:58 pm ET)
         

      Damn, Jason, you went away!

      Really, I love arguing with crazy people who have one argument at their disposal; who won't allow any refutation of that argument, but instead keep on insisting on their original point as if no one else had posted refutations; who becomes angrier and angrier and more insulting; and finally declares himself the winner in a tirade of even more insults, because the other posters won't accept his narrow, blind argument.

      Really Jason (J4SONL33) don't go away just yet!  

      Report Abuse
      • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 7:08 pm ET)
           

        Oh, stop with the compliments. My insults don't hold a candle to you and Solon. Re-read the posts and you will see that I do very little name-calling, unlike you. In fact, another poster chimed in about Solon's insulting nature being immature and illogical. He truly is the champ. You're no slouch yourself, Pants, but you're no Solon. Keep working on it, though.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 7:35 pm ET)
             

          Thanks for sticking around! Really, I want to know more about Clinton murdering Vince Foster. 

          I guess you are going to "bi**tch" slap us again, as you have claimed to do twice.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 8:01 pm ET)
               

            For good measure, let's just go ahead and say I've b*tch slapped you at least three times. How's that whole "Bush lied" thing going for you? Have you figured out yet that America is NOT a democracy? Care to prove to me that you have a constitutional right to vote?

            Or are you just content with calling me names?

            BTW, I'm glad that you're so interested in the Clinton-Foster subject. Here's a link that will give you everything you need to know (though I doubt that you will actually read it):

            http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/FOSTER_COVERUP/foster.html

            Ok, then, I'm off to find Solon. He's much more fun than you.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 8:09 pm ET)
                 

              You are a troll and I'm not engaging you in any argument. You have already exposed yourself. 

              I do think you are very amusing.

              Oh, just love the link! You are serious, too! What next, are you going to provide a link to show us that the earth is flat?

              A light turns green in Boston, MA. Then Vince Foster committs suicide. Coincidence? Not according to our well place sources.

              Stayed tune. In chapter 5 we will reveal how really how the Democrats are zombies from out of space.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by j4sonl33 (September 07, 2007 9:30 pm ET)
                   

                Well, looks like you're just content with calling me names, then.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by funnymanpants (September 07, 2007 11:27 pm ET)
                     

                  When does chapter 6 come out on the Vince Foster story? I'm waiting on the edge of my seat. 

                  Report Abuse

my.MediaMatters.org

Login  Sign Up

Push Back

Phone calls, emails and letters from the public do make a difference. Remember that to be effective you must be polite, and professional. Express your specific concerns regarding that particular news report or commentary, and indicate what you would like the media outlet to do differently in the future.

Feed IconRSS Feeds

Get personalized rss or email alerts

Connect & Share

Facebook Twitter Digg YouTube MySpace