Fox News' Petraeus coverage commentary not fair, not balanced
During Fox News' coverage of congressional testimony by Gen. David Petraeus and U.S. ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker from 12:30 p.m. to 6 p.m. ET on September 10, the channel presented commentary from only one Democrat or progressive: Rep. Bob Wexler (D-FL), who appeared opposite Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN). The other seven people appearing on Fox to provide commentary consisted of two conservative pundits (columnist Ann Coulter and former Sen. Rick Santorum [R-PA]), two former public officials who praised Petraeus (former Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority spokesman Dan Senor and former CIA agent Mike Baker), Iraq war veteran Marco Martinez (who wrote a September 7 USA Today op-ed critical of Democrats who purportedly "view success in Iraq as an electoral problem"), Fox News defense analyst retired Gen. Bob Scales, and Politico executive editor Jim VandeHei.
In the 4 p.m. ET hour, Neil Cavuto, host of Your World with Neil Cavuto, said he would bring in Democratic strategist Julian Epstein to offer commentary, but then said that technical difficulties prevented Epstein from appearing.
Fox News anchors Martha MacCallum, Shepard Smith, Cavuto, and John Gibson, Fox News national correspondent Catherine Herridge, and Fox News correspondent Jennifer Griffin also appeared during the coverage of the testimony. During the 5 p.m. ET hour, Gibson broke away from Iraq coverage for four-and-a-half minutes to discuss the missing child Madeleine McCann with Sunday Times correspondent Sarah Baxter and former Los Angeles Police Department detective and Fox News contributor Mark Fuhrman.
A summary of those discussing the Petraeus testimony on Fox News while the testimony was being aired on the afternoon of September 10 follows:
| Persons discussing Petraeus' testimony on Fox News (9/10, 12:30-6 p.m. ET) | ||||
| Liberals/ Progressives | Republicans / conservatives/ pro-Petraeus guests | Fox News anchors & reporters | Other journalists | Defense analysts |
|
Rep. Bob Wexler |
former Iraq Coalition Provisional Authority spokesman Dan Senor Rep. Dan Burton (R-IN) Columnist Ann Coulter Iraq war veteran Marco Martinez former Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA) former CIA agent Mike Baker |
Martha MacCallum Catherine Herridge Jennifer Griffin Shepard Smith Neil Cavuto John Gibson |
Politico executive editor Jim VandeHei |
Retired Gen. Bob Scales |
As the blog News Hounds noted, after Coulter and Martinez spoke on Your World, Cavuto said, "I want to bring Julian Epstein into this. He's a Democratic strategist of some renown. Ann Coulter is here as well to talk about it. I think we're not quite set up with Julian." Cavuto continued his dialogue with Coulter for more than two minutes. Coverage then returned to live video from the testimony without any image or sound from Epstein. As News Hounds also noted, during Cavuto's conversation with Coulter, Coulter said: "[T]o ... hear what's actually going on, you suddenly realize how completely treasonous the media is, and the Democrats -- they want us to lose. They hate the troops."
In his USA Today op-ed, Martinez distorted remarks by House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-SC). Martinez claimed that Clyburn said "progress with the surge might create a 'real big problem for us' in moving toward withdrawal." Martinez added: "Knowing that a politician might view success in Iraq as an electoral problem is political zealotry in the extreme. Does Clyburn's remark, though his alone, reflect a growing anxiety among Democrats that success in Iraq might complicate plans for ending the war?" In fact, as Media Matters for America has noted when other conservatives distorted Clyburn's remark, the full context of the washingtonpost.com interview in which Clyburn made the remark shows that he did not say that good news from Iraq is bad news for Democrats; rather, he said that a recommendation from Petraeus against "back[ing] away" from the current course in Iraq would impede Democrats' efforts to garner support in Congress for legislation to begin withdrawal.
From the September 10 edition of Fox News' Your World with Neil Cavuto:
COULTER: We've -- just in Anbar province alone, I believe, we've killed 100 Al Qaeda, just since the beginning of the surge. And meanwhile, our combat deaths have gone down by half since we've taken the fight to the enemy. I mean -- now that -- to act -- hear what's actually going on, you suddenly realize how completely treasonous the mainstream media is, and the Democrats -- they want us to lose. They hate the troops. They think the troops are a bunch of illiterate, toothless rapists, from what I can tell from reading the media on a daily basis.
[...]
MARTINEZ: I do believe that we need more troops on the ground in both Afghanistan and Iraq. And as you can see, the surge is working. And -- and it's actually been very good for us to have those 30,000 troops in Iraq. As you can see, it's -- it's created results in our favor.
CAVUTO: All right, Sergeant, I want to thank you again for joining us but more for your service to the country. Thank you, sir.
MARTINEZ: Thank you for having me.
CAVUTO: All right, well, you might have heard one or two congressmen referring to this MoveOn.org -- that was a front -- not a front-page but a full-page ad in today's New York Times, among other major newspapers, where it essentially accused the general you're looking at right now [Petraeus] of being a liar and betraying the facts. I want to bring Julian Epstein into this. He's a Democratic strategist of some renown. Ann Coulter is here as well to talk a little bit about it. I think we're not quite set up with Julian, but, Ann, this ad and the fact that so many are quoting it and saying, "Look, don't trust the guy who is still perpetuating a bad war." How does it resonate?
COULTER: It's just part of the same treason the Democrats have been promoting from the beginning.
From the September 10 edition of Fox News' Big Story with John Gibson:
BAKER: And, in all honesty, not to beat the drum on behalf of General Petraeus, because he himself knows the seriousness of this problem, but he's presented a very, very down-to-Earth report, and I think it's -- it's -- there's some magnificent spin going on right know to try to color it as -- as the White House version of this.
.......and this is a surprise to???
Does this warrant attention here? Considering it's nothing new and fully expected, knock your lights out. Does anyone who turns on Fox News expect to get anything but the most flattering coverage of all things Bush? No.
What say MMFA about the other major news networks and their coverage?
How existential of you, you've gone from "Why is this here?" to "Why is anything anywhere?"
Did I do that? Wow, I didn't realize I was so ethereal and prolific.
"What say MMFA about the other major news networks and their coverage? "--Tommy
As you know, you and I are debating the Meredeth Viera MMFA item. Hummmm? So, why did you bother to ask this?
So, I should get a "tipster" nod from the folks here for the suggestion, is that what you're saying?
Well, okay. However, I was thinking more on the order of; "Why is this here?" :-)
Is Media Matters beating a dead horse?
NO!
We posting comments here are but a tiny speck in a universe of unknowing Fox News listeners. Many friends of mine watch only Fox News Channel and believe every single word uttered there.
Thanks to Media Matters we will beat that dead horse like a drum until absolutely everyone is aware of the truth.
Then perhaps more and more listeners will select from a wider spectrum of news outlets and thereby decide for themselves which ones are more credible.
The FUXnews 'viewers' are a speck. We're talking, like less than 3 million tops!, on nudie night! -- less than one percent of Americans, and more ordinarily in the half-million range. You could tell your friends how rare it is, in your case, knowing someone in the 1-out-of-100 category, and then multiplied by your few or many instances.
One explanation for why the TV-addicted zombies seem prevalent is, in parts: 1) since they heard it on TV, they feel emboldened to parrot it in coversational 'safety;' 2) most normal people ignore TV'news' and prefer knowing zero better than negative (lies), and so stay shy to speak their personal mind; and/or 3) the zombies did not actually see it, and only heard someone else say it -- think of it as infectious dementia.
A treatment (perhaps even remedy) that works for me, is mocking my friends each time they quote TV to me. We stay friends and they get away from their TV addiction more.
tommy asks: does anyone who turns on fox news expect to get anything but the most flattering coverage of bush? but that's not how they promote themselves. they get all hot and bothered if anyone suggests that they are anything but "fair and balanced". tell you what tommy, when they identify themselves as the pro-bush/republican news channel, then we'll shut up about it. deal?
What say MMFA about the other major news networks and their coverage?
Well absolutly nothing of course ;-)
Remember Tommy MMFA only points out what they deem unfair coverage as it applies to Liberal/Democrats.
Of course FOX isn't Fair & Balanced...does anyone other than a few devoted fans believe otherwise?
But if MMFA were fair & balanced [yeah yeah before anyone tells me they make no such a claim..I'm aware of that] they'd also point out that sometimes things aren't fair & balanced for Conservatives/Republicans.
On Hardball last night...
Chris Matthews first 2 guests to discuss this topic were both Democratic Congressmen. Sestak [Pennsylvania] & Walz [Minnisota]...no Republicans to balance this.
Then Matthews 2 guest to discuss the ad in the NY Times were both Liberals. Eli Pariser from MoveOn.org & Markos Mouilitas, Mr. Daily Kos...again no Conservative to balance this.
Just pointing out what goes on out there that isn't reported here.
IF some of you expanded your horizons, you'd find out there are examples of the lack of fair & balanced examples out there in Liberal/Progressives favor.
Thanks J,
A fair and balanced perspective is always appreciated, by most of us anyway.
Jeter, I think most posters here are pretty well aware of what is happening out there. I think it is reasonable that when a poster comes to MMFA they are looking to see what rightwing spin and propaganda and agenda is being pushed and by whom. If we want the information you mentioned then we would get that from a site that serves that purpose. It makes no sense that anyone would come to MMFA to learn anything other then the information they clearly say they are here to provide. It is also probaly reasonable that many who visit this site and participate are not pleased with where the repiblicans have taken this country and see this site and what it does as a way to promote the change they seek. Public perception has a big impact on policy and this site helps to debink some of the spin that has helped institute the republican's failed policies.
I enjoy reading aboit Repiblicans being debinked. ;-)
Stick around T, you'll really enjoy when I start discussin our disider. I am a really crappy typist and don't have the patience for proof reading these posts. I have pointed out before I seem to type faster then my brain computes which usually results in some real doozies. I seem to make alot of phonetic mistakes and type out what the words sound like rather then how I (believe it or not) do know they are actually spelled. I don't usually waste time correcting my typos if I figure you can figure it out on your own. So please accept this apology for all past and future doozies and feel free to enjoy my quirks. (-:
P.S. and please take note how close "u" and "i" are on the keyboard and have mercy on my wayward digits.
As long as they have perental approval, and as a fellow keyboard abuser, mercy is hereby issued.
LL, I certainly hope I didn't offend you. That was not my intent, and if I did, I'm sorry. I mispell enough words myself, only mine aren't mistyped. I type very slow, so any mispellings are actual. In fact, I did notice how close i and u were prior to posting that. But, "repIblic and debInk" gave me a smile. Thanks.
Geeze, no you didn't offend me...I thought it was really funny actually...made me laugh...actually needed that today. I guess I should have used more of those smiley and winky things in my response (-; (-:
Good. Just making sure. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
If we want the information you mentioned then we would get that from a site that serves that purpose. It makes no sense that anyone would come to MMFA to learn anything other then the information they clearly say they are here to provide.
LostLogic, I don't expect MMFA to provide anyone here about the info I posted [HardBall Guest List], please note I said:
"But if MMFA were fair & balanced [yeah yeah before anyone tells me they make no such a claim..I'm aware of that] they'd also point out that sometimes things aren't fair & balanced for Conservatives/Republicans."
I don't expect them to be Fair & balanced. I know that's not their mission ;-)
However, I see no reason that I can't point out these facts myself. Is that a problem?
MMFA points out the lack of a fair & balanced guest list, in way of Dem/Libs as compared to Rep/Cons. I'm simply saying that depending on what you're watching, it could be that the unfair balance favors the Dem/Libs.
Since this is a forum where we are allegedly encouraged to exchange opinions/ideas/facts, I felt I was allowed to remark on this.
Jeter, what a strange response. Please point out to me where I said you couldn't express your opinion. I was simply commenting on your post and expressing my opinion. Ypu make this point often and I was simply commenting on it. You were a little condesending to the posters here with your comments and I was simply pointing out that most here are very well aware of this sites bias since it is actually in black and white for everyone to read.
Sorry if my post came off snarky LostLogic :-/
My writing about me being allowed to give my opinion or facts wasn't directed at you personally. It's just that I often point out that bias in the media goes both ways & some here get a tad nasty on occasion about my mentioning that. Opposing opinions are not welcomed here by everybody.
Since MMFA points out only Conservative MIS-deeds etc., I will point out the other side if applicable.
Did I sound condescending? Well, perhaps I've picked up a few bad habits here...oops bet that sounds a tad snarky & condescending too ;-)
Jeter, no harm. Their are definitly those who do not like dissenting opinions...I've annoyed a few of them myself 0-: shocking I know how anybody could find sweet little ol' me annoying (-; And yeah you came off a wee bit condesending but you are way too lovable to hold it against you for long (-: I actually didn't mean to imply you shouldn't give us the information if you feel so inclined my point was you framed it around digs at MMFA and my point was no reasonable person should expect that kind of info from MMFA and frankly many have a purpose in wanting the republican spin/propaganda/agenda highlighted so it is not really so very odd that we focus on it in order to try and change what they have wrought. P.S. I may be a little snarky myself these days...I have been watching the hearings and am totally disgusted and discouraged...and not to mention the 9/11 coverage today still has a profound effect on me--read: female bawling eyes out this morning. )-:
Jeter you are, of course an honest individual. I, to understand and have read the "about us" of site. Just FYI here is the list of pundits who are left leaning and on the payroll of Fox. I would put this list up against any other so-called news outlet for a balanced comparison and see where they stand.
Ellen RatnerEleanor CliffJaun WilliamsMarla EliasonNeil GablerMort KondrakeSusan EstrichKirsten PowersMary Ann MarshLaura SchwartzBob BeckelJeff CohenDavid KornMark MellmanEllis Henican
Ellen Ratner, Eleanor Cliff: Now there's a couple of powerhose Liberals,
Marla Eliason: The same Marla Eliason who was surprised to hear that Fox viewers believed she was a panel Liberal on Hume's show. She is on NPR, proof that she's fair and balanced.
Neil Gabler, Jaun Williams: Gabler is the "take no prisoners" Liberal that Juan Williams only wishes he was. Juan is there for one reason: For Hume to reply to him; "Oh Juan, that's just silly." regardless of his point.
Mort Kondrake: Oh my GOD! You've got to be kidding.
Susan Estrich, Kirsten Powers, Mary Ann Marsh, Laura Schwartz: Liberals--certainly, but obviousely all on a really short leash. O'Reilly shouts them down often.
Bob Beckel, David Korn: A couple of Liberal heavyweights who can get their licks in, and receive very limited airtime and appearances.
Mark Mellman, Jeff Cohen: Liberals, certainly. But hardly ever on FOX "News." Certainly there for the scoff factor.
Ellis Henican: BINGO ! This guy is a Liberal with a capitol L. But, once again they bring him on to make fun of him, but he dishes it as well as he takes it. He should be sitting in Allen Colmes seat.
If Fox "News" had any balls, and if they really believed their idiology could stand up to scruteny, they's bring on Thom Hartman, Stephanie Miller, Ed Shultz, Randi Rhodes, Mike Malloy, Sam Seder, Al Franken, or other Liberals.
Sadly--no. It's much easier to torch strawmen. And they need it to be easy.
"What say MMFA about the other major news networks and their coverage?
Well absolutly nothing of course ;-)" -Jeter
No, not nothing, just give them a little more time. Is that too much to ask since Republicans are only asking for a few more months (er..years) in Iraq?
SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!
Ok, Tommy's argument is that a national network on the national airways has no obligation to public service, truthfull news reporting, and to refrain from agressively propagandizing in the public square!!
That if your rich enough you should be able to make the news whatever you want it to be, and to feed it to the American Public without caviat!! Free speech is now anything but!
For Rupert Murdoch, but not for the general citizenry, for the corporations to dictate what we deem the truth on the airways belonging to us all!!
American Fascism invisioned by the those whom would be to afraid to stand up for American Democracy! I suppose we should forget the MILLIONS of Men/Women whom gave the final sacrifice to the devotion of freedom over the history of our nation, so Republicans may have it there way!
Tommy please get your tennis racket, their is a foursome waiting for you on the I-5!
Happy Thoughts;
Dan Grady
Of course this merits attention here.
Ignoring the rabid losers like Limbaugh and Coulter has hurt the Republican Party's chances and their image.
I want a viable two party system, and the damage done to the Republican's reputation is very deep.
Ignoring the fact that Fox News says that it's fair and balanced but is not really fair and balanced would be a ridiculous thing to do. Until they begin to behave and act more like a news organization instead of a propaganda arm of the Republican Party, they should continue to have their actions pointed out.
I hate that my true conservative message is corrupted and polluted by the garbage that passes for news and information and opinion coming from many on the right.
MapleSue,
What exactly is your true conservative message?
I believe in individual liberty and personal responsibility. That's quite different from the world that George Bush would have us live in. I think that part of personal responsibility is telling the truth about our world, our opponents, and our message. FoxNews doesn't seem to think that way, and neither has the Bush admin. Individual liberty means allowing people to live their lives if their actions don't adversely affect another person. Gay people should be allowed all the freedoms we give to heterosexual people. I have a gay child, and my child is just as much of an adult American as you or I.
I believe in limited government, including limited federal government. Bush has grown the government more than any recent president has. NCLB is a shameful program. The federal government has no business getting involved in that kind of an initiative.
I believe in low taxes, but I don't want my descendants to pay sky-high taxes because of the tax cuts and deficit spending that Bush has led us to.
I believe in a strong national defense that has been reasonably considered and crafted. That's wholly different from what Bush has done. I don't feel safer today than I did 6 years and one day ago. I'm glad that Bush has finally talked to N Korea, and now that he has, they're being reasonable. It only took him 5-6 years to start talking to them. That's a weak national defense. Not everything related to national defense has to have a bullet coming out of it.
I didn't notice it before, but I don't know why you called me MapleSue. I guess you're saying I remind you of another poster, but I never came to this site until I read it when I was looking for reasonable commentary about Senator Larry Craig.
Any resemblence to real people, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
Haha Tommy...I was thinking exactly the same thing.
"They stab it with their steely knives,But they just can't kill the beast"
Tommy. Stop being stupid. Provocation for the sake of provocation is not provocation.
Tommy, I'd argue this point with you, but my brick wall would get jealous.
"and this is a surprise to??? "
It's not the intent of MMFA to surprise people, but to inform them.
"Does this warrant attention here?"
Yes, taking into account MMFA's mission statement, this warrants attention here. Fox relentlessly markets themselves as "fair and balanced". The math isn't that hard.
"Considering it's nothing new..."
Considering that Fox's Patraeus coverage happened on 9/11/07, yes, this is new.
"Does anyone who turns on Fox News expect to get anything but the most flattering coverage of all things Bush? No."
You simply cannot assert, with any degree of certainty, that every single person who watches Fox News believes that they are not 'fair and balanced'. There are smart Americans, and there are ones who are not so smart.
"What say MMFA about the other major news networks and their coverage?"
Here ya go, and you only had to wait 4 hours. I'm hoping we'll see more, since Patraeus' also testified on 9/11 as well.
I come from a long line of Republicans, and my in-laws are dedicated Fox News watchers. I've tried to explain to them, smart people, that Fox News is not a reliable source of information, but I think they're scared to admit it.
A couple of days ago someone posted a link to a study done that showed that liberals are more easily able to adapt and accept new ideas. Black and white thinking and not changing your mind fits well with many on the right. I feel like an outcast when I go visit my in-laws because I know that I'm not that way. Many of my conservative friends and relatives are that way though. I'm proud that I can support conservative principles but not be stupid about it. I'm proud that I reject the notion that Fox News is innocuous. I'm proud that I see the value in moving away from this nonsense of demonizing Democrats.
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-politics10sep10,0,5982337.story
Exploring the neurobiology of politics, scientists have found that liberals tolerate ambiguity and conflict better than conservatives because of how their brains work.
Sulloway said the results could explain why President Bush demonstrated a single-minded commitment to the Iraq war and why some people perceived Sen. John F. Kerry, the liberal Massachusetts Democrat who opposed Bush in the 2004 presidential race, as a "flip-flopper" for changing his mind about the conflict.
But MapleSue, Considering your born again conservatism, how do you fit into this little study?
How many times will we keep beating this dead horse?
Besides, if Fox is so illegitimate as many here insist, then who really cares how biased they are?
It would be like complaining there's no factory warranty on a TV bought at a garage sale?
My problem with this is that this is nothing new, and you are correct FOX is not legitimate. It is a comedy network so why not try and change NBC, CBS , CNN, ABC ? Or is it because Americans still watch FOX in high numbers?
I personally feel there is much jelousy on the left's part that there are not that many leftwing news programs. Just one mans opinion.
-Overall the media has done the people of America a injustance. CBS, NBC, ABC ect ect. Half reporting is all they do, EVERYONE of them!
Blah blah blah why is this here blah blah blah
Tommy why is it hard for you to understand that to some silence means acceptance. If we ignore Fox it appears that they are doing nothing wrong and we are willing to accept it. Change never happens overnight or even years but silence will guarantee nothing changes.
Pearl,
I have no problem with highlighting Fox. I just find it curious that so many posters insist on Fox's illegitimacy, yet think their program content is somehow worthy enough to mention here? It makes no sense, one doesn't waste their time on something so illegitimate. You can't have it both ways.
Either your importance is enough where misinformation contained deserves and requires correction, or you're garbage in, garbage out, and any crap you spill out is worthless.
Which is it?
Man your argument is so flawed it's almost humorous T.
Something can't be "illegitimate" and still criticized for having an impact on people?
Since when?
Ok, so it's an illegitimate impact? Got it.
It is an illegitimate news organization since it's not fair and balanced as they claim to be.
That illegitimate news organization pollutes the airwaves with their propaganda. They have an impact. That impact is deleterious to reasonable debate in our nation.
That bothers me. I think it should bother all true conservatives. I want it stopped. It won't stop if they're allowed to continue impacting people with their nonsense without having tht nonsense pointed out.
Nice switcheroo Sue, now you've not only changed names again for the umpteenth time, but ideologies to try and fool us, again.
Sorry, won't work - come clean and I'll take you seriously. Your conservatism baloney is trying a bit too hard, forget it.
Your not really going to go their again are you? What is your new criteria for accusing someone of being "Sue"? Any poster that makes a counter point to you and is conservative?
Tommy, if you can't answer Maple's arguments, why don't you just not post? Your reply is about as stupid as it gets.
Are you saying that it's not possible for an illegitimate source to have an impact? Are you really saying that?
Your argument is baseless. As long as Fox is on the air and calling itself a normal news show, its conservative bias and misinformation really must be pointed out.
Agreed. Turning your cheek accomplishes nothing.
SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!
It would be like complaining there's no factory warranty on a TV bought at a garage sale? - tommy / Tuesday September 11, 2007 04:47:49 PM EST
Following Draft-Dodgers to War with a Madison Ave PR Campaign headed up by the Neo-Con Texas Oil men to invade Iraq! The Operation Iraqi Liberation!
There are consequences that are very public!! American dead, and injured, Iraqi dead and injured, and for what? $1-2 trillion dollars of American tax dollars that will do nothing for Americans that an anchor wouldn’t do around a drowning mans kneck !
So clever making a miserable explanation for what you know is WRONG!
Happy Thoughts;
Dan Grady
"Besides, if Fox is so illegitimate as many here insist, then who really cares how biased they are?
It would be like complaining there's no factory warranty on a TV bought at a garage sale? "
Your analogy is inaccurate. It would be like buying a new TV that comes with a documented factory warranty, but when you require service, the factory does not honor the warranty, and then you complain that the product is not warranted as advertised.
Until we have a delicious pâte.
So what is the point you two? The fact that Fox is CONTINUALLY biased and unbalanced that means we should begin ignoring them and just ALLOW such unbalanced coverage to go unnoticed? Yeah this is what Fox does then articles like THIS are what MMFA does its not earhtshaking or new that MMFA does this so why not take your own advise and just ignore it.
Why is World Net Daily, or Newsmax, or the 700 Club, or a host of other right wing news outlets not highlighted here then? Is Fox more legitimate than they are? If not, why bother?
Maybe because they PRETEND they are more legitimate and some people are fooled. It doesnt matter it isnt your call.
Sorry, my opinions are my call......even if your tolerance level for anything questioned here is nill, that's your call.
Your criticism of MMFA and posters on this website for calling Fox "illegitimate" and still calling them out on their bias and propaganda is just silly even for you.
Is this another variation of your "just ignore it and it will go away" arguments?
Silly posts such as mine needn't require so much attention from you, should they? So, why bother?
Just like Media Matters should debunk Fox News and their false talking points, and point out when they're being a propaganda tool for the Republican Party, posters here should debunk you too.
I'm fed up with my party being hijacked by people who don't care about being honest near as much as they care about winning. I'm sick and tired of people like you saying that ignoring bad behavior is the best way to make it go away. I want honest debate on the topics at hand, and when Fox News doesn't have something close to a balanced panel, they can't accomplish that goal and as a nation we're all the poorer for it. When you aren't honest, Tommy, my side, the conservative side, gets a poorer reputation than we deserve. I'm tired of being disrespected because deceitful people on the right have louder voices than the sane ones.
This is hysterical. Sue, you're almost damn good!!! HAHAHAHA!!!
Man your really starting to become unhinged. Your counter arguments are comparable to playground taunts and putting your fingers in your ears.
Let me know when you actually want to have an honest conversation with people on this site. It seems like all your really interested in is seeing your own words posted.
Thats right tommy so feel free to make your content free snivelling posts about MMFA then I will take a swipe at them. Works for me.
I used to like your post now you're being stupid!
Fox will one day be relegated to the margins where they belong. Until then or they stop promoting themselves as fair and balance MMFA please keep calling them out on their BS and show them for the liars that they are. Thanks!!
Its not a dead horse, its a live cow, with an attitude.
That there are millions of gullibles, credulous & wishful thinkers and reality-deniers out there who THINK and BELIEVE they are getting straight "news" from Fox and only Fox explains why about 30% of Americans still --STILL-- believe Saddam was connected to 9/11.
I think if Fox told its dupable Fox viewers to "visit the off-world colonies", they would call the network for tickets.
Are you saying that 30% is due to Fox news?
Are you saying Fox is responsible for NONE of that 30%?
I asked you a question. To answer your, yes I am sure they are.
Typical of you to answer a question with a question.
Typical of you to question anyone who has the audacity to criticize the sacred and beloved Fox News, the source of all right-wing "knowledge" and "facts", like 'they attacked us on 9/11 and that's why we're fighting 'them' in Iraq'.
More than any other source, with the exception of George Bush and Dick Cheney perhaps, Fox News insinuated or even directly linked Sept. 11th with Saddam Hussein. And so yes Fox bhas the dubious distinction of being responsible in large part for so many being duped ---even to this day. Are they solely responsible for every single one of the reality-denying 30%? Obviously not.
Dave, to get things straight. I NEVER watch Fox news. I was wondering where you where coming from. Man you are bitter.
I don't think he's bitter. His description of Fox's method is dead on.
And it's obvious where he's coming from, EL.
He's coming from Chicago.
Ok Worrier. I was wondering if he was as foggy headed as those he was writting about. I would say that the 30% that are believers stem more from ignorance then Faux news. I just dont see to many backwoods folks watching that kinda TV. Not everyone has cable TV.
U.S. population is approximately 300 million. 30 percent of Americans still believe Bush is good and honest, Saddam was behind 9/11 and liberals are the biggest threat to America. That's at least 10 million American idiots. Most of whom believe the crap they hear on Fox and talk radio. MMFA is providing education to dissuade rampant idiocy. Jeter, Tommy and others would like to see said idiocy perpetuated. Sorry MEDIIA does Matter!
Tell me that story again how Coulter is just a comedian and not representative of conservative thought, I like the part where she's such a marginal, out-of-the-mainstream character that she is never ever invited to comment on political issues and treated as a serious and thoughtful pundit with something insightful and intelligent to add to the national dialogue.
Well if you ignore her she will go away, NOT.
Well if you ignore her she will go away, NOT. - Lynn / Tuesday September 11, 2007 04:56:51 PM EST
Absolutely. Here's one example of what happens when people ignore Coulter's fulminations. She runs about talking about how no one is refuting her and therefore she has been vindicated. The logic may be non-existent but there is a large segment of the population that just laps it up.
She does it several times in this single segment alone. Warning, her ridiculous rendition of the Theory of Evolution is absolutely painful.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200607240008
Any news program that invites Ann Coulter to analyze anything except spewing vitriol and making things up on the spot is disqualifying themselves immediatly as a serious or reasonable news company
My thoughts too, but not exactly...
Why is Ann Coulter there? She obviously isn't there because she's this great mind with unique insight into the war or General Petreaus. She's there because they think she's a legitimate commentator who can bring ratings. They probably hope she'll say something controversial and stir up some interest.
But they are definitely treating her like a mainstream Republican. She's not this fringe character that some make her out to be. She is, whether the more sensible conservatives like it or not, a representative for the Republican opinions.
The lies and half-truths from General Betray Us, contradicted by his own earlier statements regarding the fragility of our force under the pressure of this "surge" can certainly be styled as "down to earth" - but only by those as delusional as the General himself. "Subterranean" might have been a more apt choice. Had we begun staged withdrawals instead of this self-destructive "surge", we might have had a chance of getting out with a functional fighting force. Now, it will take a full decade to repair, replace, re-equip "the troops", except for the nearly 4,000 we have already lost, the 50,000 permanently disabled, the tens of thousands suffering PTSD or other psychological damage, coming home to commit suicide. Oh, and we are far too broke, now, to rely on spending to cure those problems, even aside from the neglected infrastructure issues, the social fractures arising from the disparity between the war profiteers and the other 99% of us, the inequities arising from equiping that 1% with extra-super powers as "Corporate" entities. I would never assume to deprive God of the opportunity to redeem even Bungle and his cabal, but IMO, we could have done far better if the Corporations and the Repugnants had simply been banished to the far reaches of He11 circa 1968.
Democrats -- they want us to lose. They hate the troops. They think the troops are a bunch of illiterate, toothless rapists, from what I can tell from reading the media on a daily basis.
Why the heck is Coulter discussing this? She's just another perfect example of the right wing, right along with the WBC.
Thanks again, MMFA, for keeping many of us from having to watch anything Fox. As a citizen, it is wise to keep up on what the sheeple are watching, while preserving our sanity. It is important to be aware of what the media is spouting (if you can excuse me from including Fox in the media category).
Does Tommy warrant attention here? Considering he's said nothing new and fully expected, knock your lights out. Does anyone who reads these comments expect to get anything but the most inane babble from this child? No.
Why does anyone allow this child to hijack conversations. Please let his posts sit quietly.
There you go again, trying to talk your fellow posters into ignoring me, do you realize that your ignorance is plenty satisfying for me alone?
I have not been influenced by anyone else's opinion about Tommy.
I've been influenced by his own commentary.
I think it sucks. I hate that so many on the right think it's okay to lie, or mislead, or distract from the real point of an argument by erecting strawmen.
I think more people who really believe in the Republican positions on issues should object to the distorted picture that Rush Limbaugh et al push onto their audience. I think it sucks that there are conservative posters on this site who consistently denigrate the efforts of Media Matters to point out conservative misinformation.
I think that true Republicans have good stances on issues. Bush? Nope. Tommy? Nope. Limbaugh? Nope.
I may be off here, but my hunch is this;
Nomobush is gone, poof. You appear, and take on this phony conservative stance on issues to try a new tactic....
So, could you be?
Does it really matter who MAPLETOOTIE has or hasn't been before?
If you suspect that someone is back under another name, fine. Mention it and move on. Unless the poster is being a real ass. So far I haven't seen this from MAPLETOOTIE.
It's not the most mature thing in the world to repeat the Pee Wee and Francis "I know you are but what am I" routine over and over again.
But then again, I'm the last person who should be defining what's mature and what's not.
Excuse me, when MapleSue comes out of box and says I basicall "suck", unprovoked - then she has opened the door back her way.......I could care less who she reincarnates herself as, now it's a conservative - it's more entertaining than anything else, except pathetic.
Tomm, Let me reinforce that sentiment. You suck, not because of your political affiliation but because you haven't made one single reasonable argument. WE WANT DEBATE NOT IDIOCY!
Tommy, I have to agree with others. I have not seen so many attempts to claim one is another and should be banned also on the left. I can understand you feeling you are on the defensive here, you shouldn't have to feel you need to resort to that level of discourse though. Many of your posts stand out, they give you credibility. Don't blow it on a vendetta, OK?
"Excuse me, when MapleSue comes out of box and says I basicall "suck", unprovoked"
That's pretty much un-true. You already started your childish "Sue" attack prior to her saying that you suck. Your posts are starting to suck.
Not that I have any interest in your one-sided opinion, but look at the timeline before you blatantly lie........this was my first response to Sue, before any others, after she swooped down unprovoked and said I "suck". So, she opened the door, not me.
I don't understand why you would try to claim that what I said was unprovoked.
Scooter said that your postings were unworthy.
You said that Scooter was trying to influence other posters.
I said that Scooter hadn't influenced me, and that I had come to the same conclusions independent of his/hers. Others have come to the same conclusions also.
What I did was a direct result of what you and Scooter said, and wasn't unprovoked.
What was unprovoked was your faulty conclusion that I'm Sue, whoever that is. Maybe you're confused, and maybe you were just trying to get a rise out of me, but I don't need your approval or care about your insults. I am comfortable with who I am and what I stand for. In many ways you're in the same class as the liars and hypocrites that Media Matters fights against every day. I'm not.
Phoeinix Woman, a poster on Firedoglake used a phrase that went over well, Axis of Weasels. Fox is part of the Axis of Weasels.
General P. didn't play the complete tool, but I'm still waiting for comentarys to start appearing. Beyond Annie Dearist, another rock solid menber of the Axis of Weasels, of course.
I'll take Mapletootie at face value, seems fairly sane. If new welcome, if not, I can survive it,...I think.
COULTER: It's just part of the same treason the Democrats have been promoting from the beginning.
Anyone who posts here and believes that we of a different persuasion are treasonous bastards as Anne Coulter says we are; then admitting it is O.K. with me. Just stop hiding behind the WITH mantra. If you don’t believe that MMFA has any business pointing out the truly inflammatory and divisive rhetoric of the right wing neo-con enablers like Ann Coulter, then say so by all means. When those who believe the FNC crap that is tossed out by their “political analysts” degrade and try to put all democrats in the “if you aren’t with us, your against us” treason basket then who the hell else is going to say:
“Now, now, Annie honey, I don’t think all Democrats are treasonous”. Sure as hell not Neil Cavuto, or Bret Hume, et al, I’m sure. I spent 20 years of my life defending her right to say what she says, but if given half the chance I’d slap her upside the head for calling me treasonous. ;-) ;-)
I won’t repeat what I think about her as I would be banned for life by MMFA, and to be honest, I think I have more character than she does.
The American people heard from Gen. David Petraeus. Now let's hear from Iraqi government officials and get their data. But Fox News what do it.
Fox noise loves all the loud mouth CHICKEN HAWKS
I did my time in the S@#t of Viet Nam why can't they put their money where their mouth is ???
The sad thing is, many avid Fake (Fox) News viewers around the country aren't given many other alternatives to the news that they receive. I know this as a fact, because my mother who lives in the Atlanta area only receives Fox News and CNN (not much better) fron her cable provider. No MSNBC or Keith Olbermann to be found. Almost any restaurant or bar in that area will have Fox News on 24-7, and are usually very reluctant to change the station even when asked. You can't get away from it. There is almost NO progressive talk radio in that part of the country, so people are force fed the likes of Neil Boortz, Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and their ilk. They're being brainwashed and they don't even realize it.