Accusing Clinton of "mimicking black dialect," Walter Williams didn't note she was reciting hymn in Selma speech
SUMMARY: Syndicated columnist Walter Williams accused Sen. Hillary Clinton of "insulting
blacks" during her Selma speech on March 4 by "mimicking black
dialect." He wrote, "Commemorating a key point in American history is one thing,
but a white person mimicking black dialect is demeaning and insulting." But as
Clinton herself stated during the speech, she was quoting from a hymn by Rev.
James Cleveland.
In his September 12 column, syndicated columnist Walter E. Williams accused Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-NY) of "insulting blacks" during her March 4 speech at the First Baptist Church in Selma, Alabama, by "mimicking black dialect." But he did not note, as Clinton did in the speech, that she was reciting the lyrics of a hymn by Rev. James Cleveland. Williams wrote: " 'I don't feel no ways tired. I come too far from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy. I don't believe He brought me this far,' drawled presidential aspirant Hillary Clinton, mimicking black voice to a black audience, at the First Baptist Church. ... I'm wondering if Mrs. Clinton visits an Indian reservation she might cozy up to them saying, 'How! Me not tired. Me come heap long way. Road mighty rough. Sky Spirit no bring me this far.' Or, seeking the Asian vote she might say, 'I no wray tired. Come too far I started flum. Road berry clooked. Number one Dragon King take me far.' " Williams added: "Commemorating a key point in American history is one thing, but a white person mimicking black dialect is demeaning and insulting."
However, as Media Matters for America has previously documented, in the portion of the speech to which Williams was referring, Clinton was quoting from "I Don't Feel Noways Tired," as she made clear:
CLINTON: We have to stay awake. We have a march to finish. On this floor today, let us say with one voice the words of James Cleveland's great freedom hymn, "I don't feel no ways tired/I come too far from where I started from/Nobody told me that the road would be easy/I don't believe he brought me this far to leave me."
Williams also did not mention, as Media Matters has documented, that footage of Clinton's speech from the March 4 edition of C-SPAN's Road to the White House showed the crowd cheering Clinton as she recited the hymn and giving her a standing ovation when she concluded her speech.
Williams' September 12 column -- headlined "Insulting Blacks" -- appeared in several papers, including the State Journal-Register (Springfield, Illinois), the Deseret Morning News (Salt Lake City), and the Sun-News (Myrtle Beach, South Carolina). Williams' column is syndicated by Creators Syndicate, and according to a Media Matters report, is regularly published in at least 79 daily newspapers.
The column was also picked up by several conservative websites, including Townhall.com, HumanEvents.com, WorldNetDaily.com, and the Cybercast News Service.
From Williams' September 12 column:
"I don't feel no ways tired. I come too far from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy. I don't believe He brought me this far," drawled presidential aspirant Hillary Clinton, mimicking black voice to a black audience, at the First Baptist Church of Selma, Alabama. I'm wondering if Mrs. Clinton visits an Indian reservation she might cozy up to them saying, "How! Me not tired. Me come heap long way. Road mighty rough. Sky Spirit no bring me this far." Or, seeking the Asian vote she might say, "I no wray tired. Come too far I started flum. Road berry clooked. Number one Dragon King take me far."
The occasion of Mrs. Clinton's speech was the 42nd anniversary of Bloody Sunday, March 7, 1965, when 600 civil rights marchers were attacked by police, one of the high points in the black civil rights struggle. Commemorating a key point in American history is one thing, but a white person mimicking black dialect is demeaning and insulting. If it buys her votes from those in attendance, not much flattering can be said about them.
Mrs. Clinton later explained her drawl, around black audiences, to a meeting of the National Association of Black Journalists, "I lived all those years in Arkansas, and, you know, I'm in this interracial marriage." The interracial marriage bit has to do with the frequent reference to former President Clinton as the "first black president."
Mrs. Clinton is not alone in demeaning talk to black people; she's in good company with Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who talk of "going from the outhouse to the White House" and "from disgrace to amazing grace" and other such nonsense. Neither Clinton nor the Revs. Sharpton and Jackson address white audiences in that manner. Before a predominantly black audience, during his 2004 presidential bid, Sen. John Kerry said, in reference to so many blacks in prison, "That's unacceptable, but it's not their fault." I doubt whether Kerry would have told a white audience that jailed white people were faultless.
In 2004, [then-] NAACP President Kweisi Mfume said of President George Bush, "We have a president that's prepared to take us back to the days of Jim Crow segregation and dominance." During the 2000 presidential campaign, Rev. Jesse Jackson warned black audiences by telling them that a Bush win would turn the civil rights clock back to the days of Jim Crow. Now that Bush's two-term presidency is near its end, why wouldn't someone ask Jesse and Kweisi about the accuracy of their predictions?
Suppose some demagogue in 2000 told Jewish Americans that a Bush presidency would mean concentration camps, or told Japanese-Americans that his presidency would mean internment? I'm sure that had someone made such a stupid prediction to Jewish and Japanese-Americans, they would have had ridicule and scorn heaped upon them.
What does it say about blacks who can be taken in by pandering, alarmist nonsense from both whites and blacks as a means to get their votes? As a black man, I don't find the most obvious answer very flattering.

















You guys really have guts with this post. She was clearly trying to mimic black dialect. She was pandering.
BTW: Walter E. Williams is probably the most brilliant person I've ever listened to. If any of you don't know who he is. I suggest reading his books. Amazing!!
he's not too brilliant because he got this wrong. she was not "insulting" blacks.
Walter Williams is nothing but a lackey for white supremacy. When he's finished his daiy chore of writing negroid comments to support anti-Black perspectives and policies, he serves as ventriloquist for David Duke's lawn jockey and blackface guest-host of the Rush Limbo Show.
This is ridiculous. She was reciting a hymn as written. What did you want her to do take a red grammar pen to it. I doubt this writer is worth the time to read anymore of his works if this is how Williams generally insults his audience by thinking he can pull this type of lie and think any rational and reasonable sentient being will buy into it. Doesn't sound to me like he has anything to say worth listening to if this is characteristic of his work.
Can you imagine if she had changed the words to sound more "white"? Wouldn't this guy have a more understandable complaint then?
What a jackass.
She was just reading a hymn as written, but with a demeaning ebonic accent! It's the accent, not the words thats the issue.
When quoting Cesar Chavez, would it be appropriate to do so in an accent like an extra in a Speedy Gonzales cartoon?
When quoting Ghandi (who, as the Sen. claimed ran a gas station in St. Louis), is it appropriate to do so in a bad attempt at an Apu/Simpsons accent?
It's the derogatory mimicing of the accent, not the words, that's the issue!
An "Ebonic accent"? According to who? If it was a southern accent, how much time did she spend living in the south? And did the crowd find it offensive? If not, why wouldn't they, if it was so blatant as you suggest?
The CONservatives seem to have run out of ideas and arguments, and are now grasping at straws....
An "Ebonic accent"? According to who? If it was a southern accent, how much time did she spend living in the south? And did the crowd find it offensive? If not, why wouldn't they, if it was so blatant as you suggest?
I lived in NJ for 42 years, then one year in NV and 11 in CO. I moved to Texas a little over a year ago, and now that I'm surrounded by Texans, I find myself picking up a Texas accent.
The Southern accent is very contagious. It's very easy to pick one up in a very short time. And seeing as Hillary lived in Arkansas for many years, I'm sure she picked one up, too.
I am going to assume that you have never studied the poetry of some of the late great Black poets who wrote poetry in southern Black dialect or as some called the dialect spoken by Black slaves. We had to recite the poetry of Langston Hughes and we had to do it as written and the poetry is written in dialect, for instance the word going is actually written as gwine and the word the is actually written as da. These poets and song writers captured the authenticity of the people they were writing about. Another Black hymn is “Wading In The Water” with the central refrain being God gon trouble the water. That’s how it is written and that is how it is to be recited. BTW I am Black, and Hilary did just as we were instructed to do in high school which was to recite or sing dialect poetry and songs as the authors intended them to be done.
Lynn,
If this speech, in this dialect, had been given by say Giuliani, or Romney, or any of the Republican candidates, do you think everyone here would be jumping to their defense if they had been criticized by a liberal columnist?
Typical right wing malarky.
Tommy,
This is what we call a staw man argument. IF, blah, blah, blah, and then IF, blah, blah, blah. I'll show you how it works:
If Hillary Clinton's father had done hard time for armed robbery and not Rudy Guiliani's father, I'm sure the conservative press would be all over it. Oh, wait, I'm wrong, because Guiliani's father DID do hard time for armed robbery. My mistake.
T Bong
If this speech, in this dialect, had been given by say Giuliani, or Romney, or any of the Republican candidates, do you think everyone here would be jumping to their defense if they had been criticized by a liberal columnist?
Well, I think it's a stretch, Tommy, that Giuliani or Romney would pay homage to Rev. James Cleveland and cite one of his hymns in front of a black Baptist congregation, because for the most part, *some* Republicans aren't willing to learn ANYTHING about African-American culture and history beyond Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream" speech. The fact that Clinton even knew who the late Rev. James Cleveland was shows at least she's knowledgeable about an important figure in the black gospel movement and church tradition, and she felt it was apt to quote him with a crowd that’s familiar with his work. Many on the Right refuse to accept the fact that blacks have their own culture and history in this country, and whatever we preserve from our West African ancestors that doesn't fit European standards tends to be mocked and scorned by many on the Right. This is why blacks for the most part support white liberal politicians because at least they make the attempt to understand blacks on a deeper level beyond just skin color. Many on the Right will label white liberals' compassion and understanding "white guilt," but as Lynn mentioned on another topic a few months back, it's not "white guilt" but empathy. And while I’m no fan of Bill Clinton, it was his “empathy” and appreciation of black history and culture that still makes him popular among blacks in this country.
But let's say for the record that Giuliani or Romney cited a hymn by Rev. James Cleveland: if they did it with the same passion and respect to the author as Clinton did, then I see no problem with it. However, I will admit it's hard to picture either of these two citing it the way Clinton did without sounding incongruous. Both Giuliani and Romney would lack the verisimilitude to cite it with honor and passion as Clinton did. Sure, some would say she was pandering and being calculating, but she didn’t come off as a phony when she cited that hymn, and if she did black folks would have sensed her phoniness in the audience and gave her a lukewarm response. However, they didn’t, so I think this is really a non-issue.
Thank you Preston for your honest response, and you make good points.
If an audience full of blacks applauded either of those gentlemen, like they did for Hillary, I don't think they would need any more defending than she does.
Just thinking about how Steve Allen, years ago, did a straight reading of Donna Summer's song "Hot Cop" and how strange it sounded. but going from this, reading poetry in a foreign language or different dialect is more than reading the text. Language involves intonation as a expression of meaning. Reading a spanish text would not necessarily be equated with a cartoon character. There are, after all, a relatively broad number of accents other than a cartoon character, arent there?
If Williams is so brilliant, why didn't he mention that Clinton was reciting a hymn? I'll tell you why, because he knows that if he did, it would completely discredit his accusation.
If Williams is so brilliant, how can he justify his own use of stereotypes ("How! Me not tired.") to accuse someone else of using stereotypes?
You and I probably differ greatly on what we feel constitutes brilliance, because in my book, these are not things that brilliant people do.
Agreed this man is one of a kind. Brilliant, witty and a thorn in liberal elites side.
Dare I suggest MM is racially intolerant with this post? Is not he as a black man entitled to question a presidential candidates intentions on such matters within his community?
Any man who would buy his wife golf shoes so she wont slide around on the ice whilst doing his chores is alright in my book.
MMFA is intolerant of idiots and liars like Walter Wiliams, regardless of their race.
"Dare I suggest MM is racially intolerant with this post? Is not he as a black man entitled to question a presidential candidates intentions on such matters within his community?"
Let me get this straight. Hillary was quoting. She was reading something as written. Williams failed to mention that highly pertinent fact in his work. But that's not a problem...because Williams is black?
It's not racial intolerance. Nobody's saying he doesn't have a right to question intentions, he just has to do it honestly. Is this really so difficult to understand?
Go ahead and dare. You'll just sound as much like a lazy propogandist as the rest.
(I hit the [POST] bar too soon - here's the entire post I ment to make - Wzwriter)
Agreed this man is one of a kind. Brilliant, witty and a thorn in liberal elites side.
He's one-of-a-kind, all right. Stupid beyond compare.
Dare I suggest MM is racially intolerant with this post? Is not he as a black man entitled to question a presidential candidates intentions on such matters within his community?
Actually, he seems to be a black man who's ashamed of being black. His pal Thomas Sewell seems to act the same way. And they've both gone so far out of their way to distance themselves from other African-Americans that they are no longer part of the "black community".
Any man who would buy his wife golf shoes so she wont slide around on the ice whilst doing his chores is alright in my book.
Actually, a REAL man would not subject his wife to a dangerous situation. He would "do his chores" himself.
Thank you for bitting, its now obvious, you know nothing of Walter Williams or you would have known about the golf shoes for his wife story was a classic and witty joke of his.
Thank you for bitting, its now obvious, you know nothing of Walter Williams or you would have known about the golf shoes for his wife story was a classic and witty joke of his.
I know all I need to know about Walter Williams - there's nothing at all about his that's REMOTELY classic or witty.
Anyone who fills in for Rush Limbaugh on a regular basis is not to be trusted, and Walter Williams is one of the most worthless scumbags in radio today. Anyone who looks up to this low-life has their priorities all screwed up.
wzwriter writes:"...Walter Williams is one of the most worthless scumbags..."
And I though liberals were suppose to be tolerant, guess I was wrong. Not only did you bite, I've now hooked you and am reel'n ya in.
We don't tolerate lying scumbags, and that's what Walter Williams is.
You've hooked nothing.
You have nothing.
You ARE nothing.
wzwriter says: "We don't tolerate lying scumbags, and that's what Walter Williams is."
Why this is starting to sound like HATE SPEECH Hmmm
Since when is telling the truth considered "hate"? Only in Right-Wing Fantasyland.....
Bore, anyone parroting a line like 'liberal elites' has pretty much blown any credibility they would ever have talking with intellectually honest people. No, not just talking to liberals, talking to intellectually honest people. The attraction to slurs like this is very revealing of the movement you admire and your own character.
If making his wife do chores when it's icy outside by garbing her in golf shoes, instead of doing them himself, is your definition of "brilliant," then you are a very sad person.
I guess that's why it is so acceptable to you for George Bush to get nearly 4,000 young Americans killed to prove his manhood.
T Bong
"Walter E. Williams is probably the most brilliant person I've ever listened to"
When the list of people one has ever listened to consists of other Creators Syndicate luminaires like Brent Bozell and Michelle Malkin, Williams shines as the most brilliant indeed.
That's like saying that one pile of dog poop smells better than all the other piles of dog poop. It's still dog poop...
:-)
You're right. I will pay more attention to Walter Williams from now on. Until this column, I hadn't realized what a disingenuous ass he apparently is. Is he with fox "news" now?
If he isn't with Faux News now, he will be soon.
Anyone who fills in for Rush Limbaugh is not brilliant, he's a standard bearer for right wing double-speak.
T Bong
Jeter
Again I was joking about Bush's mangling of the English language. All my jokes are being missed today, I'd better stop anyway and get back to work. Surely my forefathers were uneducated and mangled the language because they didn't know any better. To survive what they survived they had to be strong and smart people and I sincerely mean that. Honestly Jeter you my good Republican friend could recite Langston Huges to me all day and I would enjoy it.
Hey Lynn,
It appears my post got wiped out with a bunch of others [I think it got deep sixed because it was hooked on to the others, not for it's contents]
Again, for anyone reading your post to my now missing one...
I'm just not sure how tolerant some here would be if a Republican had been in Hillary's shoes. And while I don't find any fault here with Hillary myself, or consider her actions as pandering, I still believe that few here would be as easy on a Republican. This thread would be littered with stuff like ' Just more pandering by the RepubliKKKans'
Now just for the record, I can't see a Republican even attempting to relate to a Black audience the way Hillary did. I think it would come off badly, even if it was meant to be just the opposite.
I knew you were joking about Bush, hey the guy is a joke, but I just thought the point you were trying to make to Tommy got lost because of that dig.
Since you are one of my most favorite posters here, I'll let that go ;-)
I'm wondering if Mrs. Clinton visits an Indian reservation she might cozy up to them saying, 'How! Me not tired. Me come heap long way. Road mighty rough. Sky Spirit no bring me this far.' Or, seeking the Asian vote she might say, 'I no wray tired. Come too far I started flum. Road berry clooked. Number one Dragon King take me far.
Boy, this guy sure has his stereotypes down, doesn't he?
Pretty sad he can't recognize she was quoting. I mean, was she up there talkin' ghetto, or was it just her talking the words in her same tone, same voice? Some people take offense so easily.
"How! Me not tired. Me come heap long way. Road mighty rough. Sky Spirit no bring me this far." Or, seeking the Asian vote she might say, "I no wray tired. Come too far I started flum. Road berry clooked. Number one Dragon King take me far
Snoopy I pasted the same thing and had the same thoughts, stereotypes. It hard to complain when you use stereotypes in your argument. Mr. Williams is one black man entitled to his opinion which I don't agree. I dislike many things about Hillary but THIS is not one of them.
Now personally I don't know a lot about Mr. Williams however when copiousdissent give his approval it gives me pause and when I read a column where Mr. Williams writes:
Bush, to use today's politically correct language, made a greater effort at diversiveness and inclusiveness than any of his Republican presidential candidate predecessors, and what did it get for him?
I realize that Mr. William is probably not someone I want to read. You see I find it highly offensive when Junior makes a photo op that usually includes 2 or more black people cause I know for a fact that diversity is not nor has it ever been a part of any Republican platform. It only matters when they THINK that it will help them get elected. Any party that put out a Willie Horton ad has a long long way to go to get my vote.
Pearl, it really hurts me to see such ignorance in this day and age. We shouldn't have to focus on nit picky things when there is so much racism, what will it take to get people to stop treating fellow human beings like that?
Not ignorance... just intellectual laziness.
Intellectual laziness - the hallmark of conservatism.
Quite brilliant...complain about racial stereotypes while using them
This loser is "brilliant enough" to fill in on Rush Limbaugh's radio pukefest any time El Rushbo's having an OxyContin flashback. Along with that convicted criminal Roger Hedgecock.
Suppose some demagogue in 2000 told Jewish Americans that a Bush presidency would mean concentration camps, or told Japanese-Americans that his presidency would mean internment? I'm sure that had someone made such a stupid prediction to Jewish and Japanese-Americans, they would have had ridicule and scorn heaped upon them.
What a joke this guy is...what if the Jews were warned about Hitler? Duh, they'd have been pretty excited about the warning dipstick, ridicule and scorn my rump.
Kweisi and Jesse said something wicked this way comes...
Nearly 4 thousand soldiers and Billions of dollar would still be with us had we listened
Since when does "black" equal "southern"? At least that's more what it sounds like to me. Not that he has a point anyway.
Yawn. Walter Williams is such a hack, along with his contemporary Thomas Sowell, I'm not surprise in the least he would attack Clinton for "mimicking black dialect." He’s what political scientist Adolph Reed, Jr. calls a “Pet-Negro” for the conservative movement. In fact, Reed wrote an incredible article about Williams and his ilk in the Progressive ten years ago that’s still relevant today. Williams, who made his entire career out of attacking—oh, excusing me “chastising”—his race, rationalizes racism, galvanizes right wing backlash while applauding those who dismantles civil rights legislations, is pretty much a pet for the conservatism movement. I'm pretty sure he's still getting a nice, hefty paycheck by those big conservative think tanks that appointed him as one of their Senior Fellows. He's just fulfilling what his masters command him to do, just like Booker T. Washington over a century ago.
And while I'm no Clinton fan (and that's including Bill) I don't see how she was "mocking" that black audience when she recited a James Cleveland hymn. Granted, there is a such thing as Black English, and it's nothing to be ashamed of or mocked, however, Clinton wasn't doing this; she was paying homage to a hymn written by an influential African-American figure. I guess Williams has such disdain and condescension towards his own people he'll sell us short and think we're that stupid to applaud, and ultimately follow, a white politician because they're able to speak in a "black dialect" to us in a Baptist church.
You might be right about Booker T, but I was very moved by reading his autobiography "Up from Slavery" & thought he was a remarkable man in many ways.
I include Booker T. Washington because like his spawns Sowell, Williams, Elder, Steele, etc., he downplayed the effects of racism while being cozy with white reactionaries who funded his projects, with Washington his Tuskegee Institute. Washington suggested that blacks weren’t ready for integration, political and/or equal rights until we fix our “lack of morality” and lack of "self-help" skills. He, in effect, gave many institutions the rationalization for enforcing the ruling of Plessy v. Ferguson. It was his suggestion that blacks should tolerate Jim Crow without seeking political rights is what sparked the heated exchange between him and his rival and contemporary, W.E.B. Dubois. Here’s a quote from Adolph Reed, Jr.’s book [Class Notes] about Booker T. Washington: “The black public intellectual’s more direct progenitor is Booker T. Washington, who turned the slave narrative into a saga of personal triumph befitting his era. In Up From Slavery (1901) Washington constructed a program and a rhetoric that promised group progress through acquiescence to white supremacy. He crafted it in the idiom of the gospel of personal enrichment then popular in both religious and secular (and often overlapping) forms. In presenting his tale of individual and group success through strength of character and perseverance, he simultaneously presented himself as a Horatio Alger figure and an Andrew Carnegie dipped in chocolate.
More than Douglass ever had been, Washington became the singular, trusted informant to communicate to whites what the Negro thought, felt, wanted, needed. Washington’s stature derived from relatively progressive racial politics. He became the first purely freelance race spokesman; his status depended on designation by white elites rather than by any black electorate or social movement. To that extent he originated a new model of the generic Black Leader – the Racial Voice accountable to no clearly identifiable constituency among the spoken for.
What made this possible, and credible, was black Americans’ expulsion from civic life. The role was unthinkable, even for a figure as prominent and respected as Douglas, during the first three decades after the Civil War because a culture of broad, democratic political participation flourished among black citizens. The obvious multiplicity of articulate black voices, from the local Union Leagues and Loyal Leagues to the United States Congress would have immediately exposed as absurd the suggestion that any individual carried – or should carry – a blanket racial proxy. The idea of the free-floating race spokesman was a pathological effect of the disfranchisement specific to the segregation era, the condition to which Washington contributed.
Washington’s paramountcy as bearer of the race’s interests was always contested by other blacks, and no one claimed the mantle after him. In fact the fifty years between his death in 1915 and the final defeat of Jim Crow regime were punctuated by periods of intense, politically engaged debate among black intellectuals.”
ouch.
So the next time Clinton pulls a Washington or Jefferson quote she should try to speak in colonial English. The next time she quotes Lincoln she should try to imitate a backwoods Kentucky drawl. Face it Media Myrmidons, Clinton not only insulted African Americans, but insulted anyone who had to listen to that hideous attempt at God knows what. She is an embarassment to this country who would do us all a favor by going back to what she does best: putting on a maid's uniform and cleaning up Clinton's mess in (or I should say splashed all over) the Oval Office
Face it Media Myrmidons, Clinton not only insulted African Americans, but insulted anyone who had to listen to that hideous attempt at God knows what.
Really? I'm African-American and she didn't insult me in the least, and I'm no Clinton fan. Moreover, you seem to be so sure that she insulted blacks and all of us felt the same way as Williams. I wasn't aware that there was a poll taken about this issue where overwhelmingly blacks felt that Clinton insulted us, therefore where do you get this fact that she insulted blacks? I'm sure I'm probably wasting my time asking you this when your remarks sound not that different than the posters at the Free Republic.
No, Williams is offended because a Democrat reaches more people of his race than he does, so he has to lie by omission in this hit job of a column. He equates reciting literature with delivering offensive language to other races, but never mentions the literature. It's a false comparison, and he's smart enough to know better. You should be too.
Clinton not only insulted African Americans, IO
FYI
This 73 year old African American woman was not insulted by Hillary however I wanted to seriously kick Don Imus's @ss for his insult.
Just because you weren't insulted, doesn't mean that you should not have been insulted. She is milking the black community for what they're worth, which to her, means their votes.
How wonderful of you to teach these ignorant African-Americans how to think! [sarcasm alert]
As Lynn posted earlier, Clinton was quoting a hymn that was written in dialect, reciting it as it is traditionally done. Maybe you should read the thread before you post condescending comments.
Just because you weren't insulted, doesn't mean that you should not have been insulted. She is milking the black community for what they're worth, which to her, means their votes. IO
Ah thank you kind master for youse telling me whats ise should think and feel. Ise soooo sorrry that ise tried to use my very OWN BRAIN AND 73 YEARS OF LIVING IN THIS BLACK SKIN. When you can say the same, reply to me otherwise I can think and form my own opinions and DONT need your help!.
Thank you for bringing us your 73 years of wisdom:
'I don't feel no ways tired. I come too far from where I started from. Nobody told me that the road would be easy. I don't believe He brought me this far,'
What an inspiration for us all.
That was the exact line she recited not only with the hideous attempt at black speech, but also with that trademark shriek of hers when she attempts to raise her voice. The combination of the two is what was truly revolting and insulting.
It sounds like your bias makes anything she says or does insulting. That's your right, but don't pretend it makes for a convincing argument to others.
That was the exact line she recited not only with the hideous attempt at black speech, but also with that trademark shriek of hers when she attempts to raise her voice. The combination of the two is what was truly revolting and insulting.
The only thin I see around here that's revolting and insulting is your combination of arrogance and ignorance.
Okay, now it isn't her words but the sound of her voice you don't like. At least she knows how to pronounce the word nuclear unlike the chimpanzee we have in office now. Plus, she can't help it if her voice is more manly than Mitt the Twit's
That is extremely presumptive of you to tell people what they should or shouldn’t find offensive. I was not insulted either nor was it insulting to me when I had to recite or sing poetry and songs written in Black dialect in class or at school plays-programs or at church. There is nothing at all shameful about this type of material in fact it gives me great pride. It reminds me that our forefathers may not have been educated and weren’t able to speak the English of the educated classes but they were in no way stupid. They were smart, steadfast, strong, and spiritual, and I know that it would make them very proud to see what their descendants have attained once we were allowed to be formally educated and that we are able to communicate in standard English. I bet reading one of Preston’s posts would give them the chill of pride. This material doesn't insult me in the least and it wouldn’t be offensive to me regardless of who was reciting it. If George Bush recited a Black Hymn in dialect as it is intended to be recited it would be nothing. Actually that shouldn’t present a serious challenge to him anyway since he speaks a very similar dialect anyway
It's the whole context Lynn--Hillary has been constantly pandering for the black and Jewish vote since she first got into politics and I should hope that you can see past her attempts to exploit these communities.
As a rule, a white person has NO BUSINESS attempting to imitate black speech patterns (unless you're supremely talented like Eminem). And ESPECIALLY no white person who shrieks whenever she tries to raise her voice.
It's my opinion that you should quite while you're behind.
Quit while you're behind.
Quite behind...
Thanks for your intellectually demanding response...but I suppose that's the best you're capable of so well done child! What type of sticker do you want, star or smiley face?
"Williams also did not mention, as Media Matters has documented, that footage of Clinton's speech from the March 4 edition of C-SPAN's Road to the White House showed the crowd cheering Clinton as she recited the hymn and giving her a standing ovation when she concluded her speech."
You don't know what you are talking about. My suggestion to quit was a compassionate one.
The deeper down we go in this thread, IO becomes more condescending and arrogant, while displaying more and more of his ignorance.
I think you should quite because you are a behind.
I think he should quiet his behind.
Ah another one of those IO rules huh? Of course you get to have an opinion as we all do, but you don’t get to determine the rules. And your Hilary hate is showing. What it is with you guys and this woman I will never understand and what is all this talk about Clinton’s pandering especially since all politicians select key audiences to court, but somehow she’s much worse. You have a true Hilary bias like so many of your comrades, and there is nothing that she will able to do that is acceptable to you people. I say this as a person who is currently leaning toward Obama there are things that I don’t like about Clinton she’s too old school politician for my taste but her voice is a non-issue.
Admittedly, I'm currently undecided between Obama and Ron Paul BUT there is no denying the hideous shriek and phonyness that that woman exudes.
And there's no denying the arrogance and ignorance YOU display, IO.
I find Interesting Observer to be neither interesting, nor observant.
I think we've all found that.....
So then she shouldnt have read the hymn AS WRITTEN but rather taken it upon herself to 'translate' they hymn AS WRITTEN to something YOU find more acceptable. The astonishing mental gymnastics you have to go through to even pretend that makes any sense at all are ludicrous on the face of it.
You used to at least pretend to be rational. It's actually sort of refreshing that you've dropped the pretense and have gone into full troll mode.
Face it Media Myrmidons, Clinton not only insulted African Americans,
oops. I guess you didn read this part.
footage of Clinton's speech from the March 4 edition of C-SPAN's Road to the White House showed the crowd cheering Clinton as she recited the hymn
And it was back audience. Facts are sometimes inconvenient aren't they?
See my response to Pearlene and Preston
IO and please when reading my response get my point!
I think there's a lot in this world that IO just does not get.
But surely IO gets "rebranding". I mean, I'm thinking that being neither particularly Observant, nor even vaguely Interesting, a screen-name change might be in order?
Not to say that I don't appreciate irony...
So the senator belongs in a maids uniform?....??? Oh yea, I get it. She's a girl! Good one. Dumb girls. Thanks for your insight!
"[Hillary] is an embarassment to this country who would do us all a favor by going back to what she does best: putting on a maid's uniform ..."
Yes, it sounds as tho you held no animosity whatsoever towards Hillary UNTIL she "insulted" African-Americans.
Tho you don't find much agreement with your position here that you thought you would, I'm sure you will at places like the Rush Limbaugh Show, when he quotes the "Reverumm Jackson" and tells callers to "take the bones out of their noses".
But the black population of our prison system skyrocketed under her husband's regime, mainly due to non-offences like drug use. I don't trust her egalitarianism, especially since she supports the Drug War. She's a hypocrite.
Actually, it didn't.
If you look at the Justice Departments prison polulation figures for 1986 - 1997 in terms of percentage by race, the highest percentage of blacks in prison was during 1993 (40.69%). The percentage of blacks in the prison polulation actually DROPPED during the Clinton years, while the percentage of those characterized as "Other" doubled.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/cpracetab.htm
Redking isn't troubled by facts where his emotions are concerned. And he sure hates those Clintons! King, you missed your calling. You would have made a great rightwinger.
I think the thing that some people found insulting, and yes some people did and for a perfectly valid reason, was that she was trying to talk "like a black person", she could have quoted the passage using her own normal speaking voice, but she didn't. She used a fake, caricatured voice instead. Its not the worst thing someone can do, but of course there are people who would find it demeaning. Of course! The same would apply for any ethnicity. And if Barack Obama put on a straw hat and cowboy boots during a speech, and quoted a passage from Jimmy Carter, for example, in a fake redneck drawl, I'm quite sure a lot of people would be offended. Though Mr. Carter himself would probably not.
Trying to talk like a Black person? What a curious statement. I speak standard English and I'm a Black person. George Bush with his Ivy league education doesn't speak English as well as any of the Black people I know.
I'm not saying that I'm offended or that anyone should be, just that I understand how people could be. I've witnessed situations in which a person trying to imitate a particular dialect greatly offended people who speak that way naturally, as it was seen as being insensitive, and mocking.
that IS what's potentially offensive about the whole thing - not that black people talk in any one particular way, but in that Hillary has a "black people generic" voice to go into, almost subconsciously, which is a caricatured, fake voice that's not the one she normally uses. you can all plug your ears and say NA NA I Can't hear you! as much as you want, but I've seen this behavior offend perfectly reasonable people in the past. Its incredibly silly that the point of whether it was potentially offensive, and whether it was "mimicking" is even up for debate.
Are you African American? Or are you a white person assuming what should be offensive to one?
Mary you will notice that you received no answer.
Sad but true. Hope he read up the thread a little before galloping away.
It seemed to me that basically what you're saying is that it's appropriate to point out - for those who accidentally might have missed it - an opportunity to be offended.
I'm sure it happens all the time that people who could have been offended weren't simply because they weren't paying attention. Nice to have people like Walter Williams around to provide such a necessary service. And nice of you to help explain it for those who are not only oblivious but also too dumb to understand.
Uncle Thomas Rises in the Corporate Media...
The Cons can always dig up some deluded soul to spread the filth...Shame!
Wow, calling a black man an Uncle Tom for disagreeing with you. You better finish this post quickly and get to your laundry, for I fear that your Klan robe might be burning up in the dryer (ohhh the irony).
No - people like Walter Williams are called Uncle Toms because of their actions.
From "Wikipedia":
Uncle Tom is a pejorative for an African American who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation. The term Uncle Tom comes from the title character of Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin, although there is debate over whether the character himself is deserving of the pejorative attributed to him.
It is commonly used to describe black people whose political views or allegiances are considered by their critics as detrimental to blacks as a group.
Thanks, you proved the point. Williams, Sowell, Thomas, Connerly, all of them are Uncle Toms according to that definition.
IO what is most interesting is you claim that I as an African American SHOULD be insulted by Hillary. I am MORE insulted that you would lecture on what is or is not acceptable to ME as an African American. Who are you to tell African Americans what they should think or feel? Who are you to judge what is or is not insulting to African Americans. If you are African American and YOU were insulted, say that you were insulted but speak only for yourself!
Pearlene -
You're doing just fine speaking for yourself, ma'am. It's a shame that some here disregard your wisdom because it doesn't fit their agenda.
You remind me of my late mother, a life-long Democrat who was never afraid to speak her mind.
I am not African American but I know exploitaiton when I see it. I also know that you should be spending far more time critcizing wzwriter (read: Wizard Rider) for launching a racist assault on Walter Williams--by his own admission, verbally assaulting Williams with a term that is "perjorative to African Americans."
Now be a good boy wzwriter, or I'll tell your Kleagle!
To be clear-
While Debunked was the first on this board to describe Williams as an Uncle Tom, wizardrider endorsed his position, which I take to be the equivalent.
Oh, I get it, IO.
ANY criticism of a black man is considered racist. Well, let be tell you someting - simply going by what he wrote and what he said on Rish's radio pukefest, i had a very low opinion of Walter Williams before I even KNEW he was black.
Isn't it time for you to go get ready for your Klan meeting?
No that's not my claim at all, silly. When you call a black man Uncle Tom, THAT is a racist assault--you're starting to sound more and more like the racist you are, btw.
I'm no racist. But you're arrogant, condescenting, and ignorant.
If Walter Williams didn't ACT like an Uncle Tom, then no one would CALL him one.
Of course the black man gets the label because he has an opinon. You're right. What was I thinking???
You obviously were not thinking at all. Walter Williams got the label for his ACTIONS.
When you call a black man Uncle Tom, THAT is a racist assault--you're starting to sound more and more like the racist you are, btw.
I'm starting to notice this is a new tactic on the Right. Whenever someone labels a self-hating fool like Williams, Thomas and Sowell "Uncle Toms," people such as yourself will retort that it's a racial slur. Uncle Tom is no more a racial slur than a white person calling someone "white trash" or "redneck," which many of my white friends use when discussing Britney Spears, btw. "Uncle Tom" is not a racial slur, no matter how the Right tries to equate it with the N Word.
Thank you, Preston.
:-)
Right, he's a self-hating fool because he has an opinion that's different from that of the Democrat party. You sir, can have a seat next to Wizardrider and Debunked at that Klan meeting (boy wouldn't that be funny!)
And no I'm not trying to equate "Uncle Tom" with "n*gger" but the fact that a black man gets ANY label because he holds a conservative point of view when a white man would not get any label is illustrative of the fact that blacks can't get a fair shake in this country.
Or that most thinking people recognize conservatives as being wrong, and black conservatives as actually working against themselves.
Right, he's a self-hating fool because he has an opinion that's different from that of the Democrat party. You sir, can have a seat next to Wizardrider and Debunked at that Klan meeting (boy wouldn't that be funny!)
Hmm, I think I would have a terrible time gaining a membership with the Klan when I'm a black man (though "high-yella" as my folks in the South would call me, but black nevertheless), so I think you should try another group besides the Klan. And please don't use the Nation of Islam or the New Black Panther Party; I despise both groups and find them to be flip side of the minstrel coin that they share with Sowell, Williams, Thomas and others.
I call Williams a self-hating fool because he built a career off of attacking his people while getting his pockets filled by conservative think tanks for doing so. If he really cared that much about his people then he would try to build a constituency among his people without being the black face of conservative bigotry. It’s not as if blacks aren’t conservative; many of them are devout Christians and aren’t progressive in EVERY area as many like to think. Besides, the only reason why Williams is prominent among conservatives because he basically says things they’d like to say but can’t because they’ll be accused of being racist. Having a black face spew anti-black rhetoric gives more legitimacy to their arguments. Therefore, like his pal Sowell, powerful think tanks bankroll whatever anti-Civil Rights diatribes as quickly as possible to counter any gains made by blacks with the alliance with liberals. We could say this can be traced all the way back to Booker T. Washington, but it didn’t become a media spectacle until Reaganism hit this country. Williams goal isn’t to build a following among blacks and lay out strategies to enrich and empower urban communities (his and Sowell’s “self-help” rhetoric isn’t some new ideal in black neighborhoods; it's a message that's heard in churches every Sunday), his only reason of existence is to stoke the resistance and antipathy of conservatives, and to legitimize their backlash by saying that racism is gone and the problems aren’t with whites anymore but with blacks themselves, with their laziness and lack of morality. To Williams and Sowell, racism died the moment LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act into law.
So don’t try to lecture me about Williams and his ilk; I’m well aware of his work and others like him.
Thank you again, Preston, for yet another excellent and well-delivered post. Nothing like cold, hard facts to put the posts of people like IO in perspective.
Evidently this is occurring in some kind of time warp because this couldn’t possibly be happening in the 21st century southern United States where institutionalized racism is nothing but a really bad memory. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/etan-thomas-and-dave-zirin/racism-hatred-and-southe_b_64160.html
Give one example of Williams making an anti-black comment you coward.
IO,
You really need to chillout!
Great post. You are a jewel
There is no DEMOCRAT party just a DemocratIC party and a ReNAMBLAcan party. Since you dont even know the name of one of the two major American political parties how can anybody take ANYTHING you say seriously?
No it isnt that is ludicrous. It is a convienient arguement for conservatives to make in order to protect the very sort of actions which the term Uncle Tom accuratly describes. Harriet Beecher Stowe was an abolitionist. So was she a racist for making the stereotype in the first place? For brilliantly in her book showcasing this TYPE of behavior?
I am not African American but I know exploitaiton when I see it. IO
Since I AM let ME tell you when I feel exploited: When over the last 6 years I see Junior giving a speech and I see at least 4 black folks standing in the front row clapping. I know the only reason that Junior is interested in black folks is he needs them to help carry out the pretense that he cares about African Americans. Out of all the speeches he's given in the last 6 years there are not that many black folks who voted for him. It's a PR stunt to show he's a uniter". When I see congressional Republicans standing in from of Frederick Douglas's house tell the world how they are going to restore his home to it's former glory (PR stunt). That was suppose to show black folks how committed Republicans were to them. They were only interest in helping black folks on projects they wanted to pass, school vouchers for example. Not because they were really concerned about black children and their education they had been trying to pass the school vouchers mess and decided they would see if using black folks would help get it passed. I feel exploited and insulted when ever I hear any Republicans tell black folks to not forget that they are the party of Lincoln, like don't forget black folks "we freed you". I feel exploited and insulted when I watch Republicans use Willie Horton to instill fear in white America that all black men are rapist and criminals. I feel exploited and insulted when Rush Limbo feels free to suggest that Dems want this country to get out of Iraq and go to Darfur, not because it's a screwed up war and not because genocide is wrong, but because they need the black voter. This same stupid man has private meeting with the "commander in chief". I could go on but my point is Hillary would not make my list.
Excellent post - thank you for taking the time to post it.
Are you kidding me? When did you become so intellectually dishonest? Using a perjorative term to in my mind ACCURATLY describe the actions of an African American is RACIST? No matter WHAT is being described? There is a REASON for the term Uncle Tom, the same reason the stereotype was used in the Classic novel the term came from. IF someones actions are accuratly described by the term no possible interpretation of racist is applicable. You seem to be saying that by dint of being African Americans they are exempt from criticism. Or at the very least they are exempt from criticism about how they carry water for politicians and policies that are detrimental to African Americans as a whole. Convienient for conservatives but completely without merit.
Actually as a non-African-American I believe I am in a uniquely good position to judge when African-Americans are being exploited. Often exploited groups, no matter who they are, cannot judge when they are being exploited so it takes an "outsider's" perspective to discern it.
Wow. As a white person, I think you are really out on a limb here, and the branch cracked a long time ago.
Often exploited groups, no matter who they are, cannot judge when they are being exploited so it takes an "outsider's" perspective to discern it. IO
Pardon my bluntness but you have some brass b*lls to actually make such a stupid statement.
Well actually I don't count hiding behind an anonymous screen name, as I have done, as having "br*ss balls" but I would certainly say the same thing to you or anyone on this board in person so I guess maybe that does count as having a pair.
Haha, I misplaced the asterisk! Well you get the point.
Yikes. Just when I think you couldn't possibly be more ignorant that you showed us you were in your postings on this thread, you take the cake. Nice job. I hope that you're rich, so that quite possibly, you might be able to actually buy a clue about, well, most anything really.
Ok ok, I made a mistake. Go easy on me will you--my posts have been garnering so much attention that I'm puting these out rapid fire and I misplaced the asterisk. Whatever happened to liberal compassion?
aOOOOga! aOOOOga! condescending troll alert! I say again, condescending troll alert! Man your battle stations! aOOOOga! aOOOOga!
Often exploited groups, no matter who they are, cannot judge when they are being exploited so it takes an "outsider's" perspective to discern it. IO
Honey the b*lls come from actually believing something so dumb, brass comes from actually posting it.
IO
This hole you’re digging is getting deeper and deeper. I’ve never known you to be this condescending or maybe I haven’t being paying attention. You have no right to tell ANYONE Black, White, or otherwise what they should feel and not feel. BTW we've been through this Uncle Tom thing time and time again. The term Uncle Tom may have recently been misused in some instances but its traditional meaning stands. It describes a phenomenon where a member of usually an oppressed or disparaged group acquiesces to the group doing the oppressing and disparaging usually to gain special favor or to make themselves feel special. These people generally internalizes the negatives about the maligned group they belong to and will leap through hell fires to prove they aren’t bad like they have come to believes their group is. It’s a very pathetic thing to witness and I have witness this kind of behavior first hand usually among some older Blacks, but It happens across cultures and sexes. The many instances of the closeted Gay Republicans come to mind, I believe they believe that homosexuals are truly bad and sinful and will do what they can to separate themselves from the group to belong and be accepted by the superior heterosexual group even if it means doing things that are detrimental to Gays. Now Blacks with this issue can only closet themselves mentally and this is just what many of them do.Lynn,
The fact that you and some others here do not condemn the labeling of Williams as an "Uncle Tom" shows that you are not truly against racism, but only against racism when the perceived source of the attack is a conservative or any other type of non-left leaning person.
Read Preston's comment above. "Uncle Tom" is not a racist slur, no matter how many times you right-wingers say it is.
I should have written "when the source of the attack is perceived to be a conservative..." not "when the perceived source"
It is not a racist term. It describes a unique pattern of behavior that occurs across cultures. You can keep calling it racist all you want to. I will stick to the traditional definition of what an Uncle Tom is and not something ammended in Wikipedia by Conservative editors.
No what it shows is they are not ignorant enough to buy the ludicrous frame you try to make that would preclude the traditional criticism of calling someone who describes the ACTIONS characterised as Uncle Tom. Since you are a conservative you want to protect such actions so you are just CLAIMING that any use of the descriptive term is racism. Only a moron would believe such a ludicrous claim. Only a propagandist moron or not would repeat it.
Yes, it's a good thing perceptive white folks like you stood up for unaware blacks.
Tell us, what else have you done lately to help exploited blacks, besides posting anti-Hillary messages here?
I haven't exploited them, for starters.
How do we know that?
Same way we know about the veracity of anything written here--have to take my word for it I guess.
And we all know the value of a conservative's word.....
For starters? There must be lots, lots more you've donethen. Especially considering the admirable dedication you've shown to your cause here. What else have you, the perceptive "outsider" white man or woman, done to help unknowing blacks become cognizant of exploitation?
Basically I treat people as ends not means (call me a Kantian). I don't go to black churches because I'm interested in garnering black votes; I go to black churches because I am interested in learning about the way these churches help communities. I tutor primarily black children in the inner city because I am interested in improving the education of America. I mentor primarily black children at elementary schools in the inner city because I believe every child deserves a fair chance at having a loving mentor in his or her life. Any more questions for me, Dave?
If this is true, I hope you treat the children with more respect than you have demonstrated here, in telling the African American posters that they aren't astute enough to be offended by Hillary's speech.
If this thread is an example of how IO interacts with African Americans, he should not be allowed within fifty feet of one.
I commend you and say thanks for your community service. I really am in favor of instituting some kind of national service prgram that would include what you're doing as an service tract.
"Any more questions for me, Dave? "
Yes. The same one. What have you done to make unaware blacks aware that they are being exploited, besides posting messages about how Hillary should become "a maid" and do "what she does best"?
Yeah, right, in the same way a Fox is uniquely qualified to tell us how to guard the henhouse.
Hard to tell just how many schmucks attempted to defend Williams’ grievously errant, faux pas with the inbred disingenuousness found in a troll’s phenotype. “Mental Myopia” besides “meshugenah” does come to mind though. And how many newbie-trolls versus old-trolls can one count here?
Walter Williams is an insult to the human race, and a tremendous waste of oxygen.
This is the right's latest example of fake populism. Protraying Hillary as out of touch with blacks while they get a whopping 8% of the black vote. They have to do something to appeal to the just plain folks who have no job opportunities outside of Baghdad.
Actually, they may be attacking Hillary as being out of touch with blacks in order to solidify their support among Southern whites....
There's an old lefty joke about suburban white people changing "We shall not be moved" to "We would rather not be moved"--sounds like Walter would probably prefer the cleaned-up, placid version!
Email: wwilliam@gmu.edu
Here is the page with links to his articles [link to www.gmu.edu]
It's standard rightist crap: environmentalists bad for environment, liberals bad for African-Americans, etc.
And I'm sure Walter Williams has tenure, and can't be fired no matter WHAT useless, lie-filled drivel he writes.
Unlike liberal professors like Ward Churchill, who get run out of town on a rail by "tolerant, freedom-loving" conservatives.
This isn't the first time she has done this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-JWN6LZHjM
If that doesn't work, go to youtube and searh under Hillary Plantation.
This isn't the first time someone has ignored all the discussion thread and come on at the end to post misinformation
You are on a fool's errand. Get better soon.
I read every single posting on this subject. I did not see anything which referred to Hillary's "plantation" comment, which is relevant to the subject. If you listen to her entire speech, you will see that her dialect only changes when she makes the platantation remark. How is this misinformation? Still not convinced there is a pattern here? Well then, lets see what she said at the Rev. Al Sharpton’s National Action Network convention. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu9TQq0C3Ac