About us Login Get email updates
Research
Print

The Hill cited flawed Rasmussen poll to assert "solid support for Petraeus plan"

September 14, 2007 4:13 pm ET

SUMMARY: An article in The Hill on a recommendation before Congress by Gen. David Petraeus to reduce the number of U.S. troops in Iraq to pre-"surge" levels by the summer of 2008 asserted that, in President Bush's address to the nation laying out the plan, "his sell might not be so difficult," citing as evidence a Rasmussen Reports poll that "showed that 43 percent of Americans support the Petraeus plan while 38 percent oppose it." But the poll did not offer respondents other options to choose from -- including withdrawal of a greater number of troops than that recommended by Petraeus.

63 Comments

A September 13 article in The Hill headlined "Poll shows solid support for Petraeus plan" -- referring to a recommendation before Congress by Gen. David Petraeus to reduce the number of U.S. troops in Iraq to pre-"surge" levels by the summer of 2008 -- asserted that "[w]hen President Bush addresses the nation Thursday night to lay out the way forward in Iraq, his sell might not be so difficult," citing as evidence a Rasmussen Reports poll that "showed that 43 percent of Americans support the Petraeus plan while 38 percent oppose it." However, the poll and the article citing it are flawed.

First, the poll question did not offer an alternative to the recommendation that reflected actual proposals by Democrats and some Republicans for U.S. policy in Iraq. The poll, taken September 11-12 and sampling 1,000 adults, asked, "Do you favor or oppose Petraeus' recommendation to withdraw 30,000 soldiers from Iraq but leave 130,000 troops in place at least through the summer?" Forty-three percent of respondents answered "favor," while 38 percent answered "oppose." Nineteen percent were unsure. Those options were the only three provided in the question; respondents were not given the option of answering that they disagreed with the "recommendation" because they favor the withdrawal of a greater number of troops.

When other options are provided, polls show strong support for a greater withdrawal. For example, a Fox News poll taken September 11-12 and sampling 900 adults asked, "Based on General Petraeus's new report, do you think the United States should pull out all troops immediately; pull out all troops gradually over the next year; pull out after Iraqi troops are capable of taking over; send more troops?" Twenty-two percent responded "pull out immediately," and 42 percent answered "pull out all troops gradually over the next year." While the Fox News poll does not include the option of a withdrawal of most troops, with the long-term retention of a limited number for specific purposes -- a proposal favored by many members of Congress -- the poll found that a total of 64 percent of those surveyed said that U.S. troops should be out of Iraq sooner than is scheduled to occur under the Petraeus plan.

A Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll taken September 7-10 with a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points asked about withdrawal from Iraq as follows:

I'm going to read you several possible outcomes to the war in Iraq. Please tell me which one of these would be the most acceptable outcome to you. A) Maintain the number of troops there now, and U.S. troops leave only after Iraq becomes a stable democracy, however long this takes. B) U.S. troops leave within the next year even if violence in Iraq continues, but some troops remain in the region to prevent the conflict from spreading. C) U.S. troops begin the process of leaving now regardless of conditions in Iraq. Or are none of these acceptable to do?

Thirty-seven percent of respondents answered "U.S. troops leave within the next year even if violence in Iraq continues, but some troops remain in the region to prevent the conflict from spreading." Twenty-six percent answered "U.S. troops begin the process of leaving now regardless of conditions in Iraq." In total, 63 percent of respondents should be out of Iraq sooner than is scheduled to occur under the Petraeus plan.

Second, the Hill used terms in its headline that were not used by Rasmussen in describing the poll's results, and the article omits significant information. The headline asserted "solid" support for Petraeus's "plan." The assertion of "solid" support for the recommendation does not appear in the writeup of the Rasmussen poll itself, and, indeed, while the poll found 43 percent support, it also found that 57 percent either oppose Petraeus's recommendation or are unsure.

Expand All Expand 1st Level Collapse All Add Comment
    • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 4:22 pm ET)
         

      the poll is rather limited in scope.   a lot of people might just be answering yes to any withdrawal of troops.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by anotheramerican (September 14, 2007 4:34 pm ET)
         

      MMFA shows the inherent  problem with polls. They can  and often do mislead.

       

      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 4:37 pm ET)
         

       - it also found that 57 percent either oppose Petraeus's recommendation or are unsure. - mmfa

      And...it also found that 62% either favor Petraeus's recommendation or are unsure.

      I don't set the rules...just play by them. 

      Report Abuse
    • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 4:54 pm ET)
         

       - the poll found that a total of 64 percent of those surveyed said that U.S. troops should be out of Iraq sooner than is scheduled to occur under the Petraeus plan. - mmfa

      The poll also found that a total of 66% of those surveyed said that US troops should be out of Iraq later than is scheduled to occur under the Petraeus plan. 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 5:00 pm ET)
           

        how so?

        Report Abuse
      • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2007 5:01 pm ET)
           

        The people have made it clear. Get out of Iraq and stop hemorrhaging money and lives.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 5:11 pm ET)
             

          Not according to the FOX poll that mmfa cites...only 22% are with you...66% think we should be cautious or wait till Iraq is capable of taking over.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 5:21 pm ET)
               

            well no.  it says that 64% say we should withdraw immediately or "over the next year".   i don't think that is saying stay til iraq is readly to take over.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 5:27 pm ET)
                 

              It says that 66 percent think we should pull out over the next year or wait until Iraq is capable...in fact...more stated that we should wait till Iraq is capable vs. leaving immediately.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 5:38 pm ET)
                   

                the percent of those who think we should stay until iraq is capable is 24%.   you are contesting the statement that most americans think we should pull out.   i think 64% saying we should pull out right away or over the next year is a vote to pull out of iraq.   that is not what bush or his "plan" are saying.  

                Report Abuse
                • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 5:47 pm ET)
                     

                  And only 22% think we should leave immediately...hence the qualifier "more" think we should stay.

                  Rasmussen also found that 43% favor a longer term plan that gradually withdraws U.S. troops from Iraq over a period of several years...with 35 % opposed...and that plan got 35% approval from democrats.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 5:51 pm ET)
                       

                    Hence you were being misleading. 64% of the respondents think we should either leave right now or within the next year. So MMFA is right. 

                    You quote the Rasmussan poll without noting the problems with it as MMFA has done.  

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 6:00 pm ET)
                         

                      Incorrectamundo... this is from a Rasmussen poll last week...one that mmfa didn't want to cite...because 43%...including 1/3 of the democrats...favor a more cautious plan of several years...darn those pesky numbers.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 6:14 pm ET)
                           

                        "several years"  is as vague as you can get.  on the other hand, the fox poll had specific targets and limits.  "immediately", "the next year".   64% favored those. 

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 7:37 pm ET)
                           

                        Sure it does. Then link to it, please.

                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 5:56 pm ET)
                       

                    your only purpose here was to present mmfa as being misleading.  the claim by mmfa  was that there was not "solid support" for the patraeus plan.  there isn't.  43% is not solid support.  another claim was that a fox poll showed 64% of the public want us out right away or during "the next year".  that's true.   so you are doing the misleading.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 6:05 pm ET)
                         

                      Once again Rasmussen states:

                       - Petraeus may recommend reducing the number of U.S. troops in Iraq by about 4,000 soldiers early next year. That recommendation would be very well received. The Rasmussen Reports telephone survey found that 57% of American adults say they’d favor that approach while only 19% are opposed.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 6:09 pm ET)
                           

                        know what?  i'm in favor of withdrawing those 4000 troops too.  does that mean i want the rest to stay?

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 6:17 pm ET)
                             

                          By jove I think she's got it...congratulations.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 7:08 pm ET)
                               

                            and i assume the "she" part was some last ditch attempt to derail this into a personal argument.   i've said before i'm a white male. but it doesn't really matter.  if you did not know, you could have said "you" have it now.  as you should know by now, i do not take that kind of bait.  and it shows way more about you than me.

                            Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (September 16, 2007 2:07 am ET)
                       

                    No because immediatly or within a year is a framework for pulling out. The only open ended option got little support. It makes sense to lump together immediatly and within a year as both are talking about withdrawl it makes NO SENSE to add an open ended commitment with a time for withdrawl. Not even a good try.

                    Report Abuse
              • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 5:47 pm ET)
                   

                From the poll (which is in PDF)

                immediately (22%)  gradually (42%)    capable (24%)  more troops (2%) Don't know (10%) 

                Only 24 % say we should wait till the Iraqis are capable. A full 64% say we should pull them out immediately or within the next year.

                So where are you getting your figure from?  

                Report Abuse
                • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 5:54 pm ET)
                     

                  <braille tag open> It says that 66 percent think we should pull out over the next year or wait until Iraq is capable. <braille tag closed>

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 5:58 pm ET)
                       

                    but you are combining two things that are exactly opposed to each other and claim they prove your point.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by jawill11 (September 14, 2007 6:42 pm ET)
                         

                      Also, a full 100% either have an opinion or don't. 

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 8:40 pm ET)
                           

                        it's so obvious.  25% think we should not withdraw + 25% like vanilla ice cream + 25% think elvis is alive + 25% think britney is our u.n. ambassador = 100% support bush's policies.  gosh, this is easy.

                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 10:09 pm ET)
                       

                    >><braille tag open> It says that 66 percent think we should pull out over the next year or wait until Iraq is capable. <braille tag closed>

                    As others are pointing out, you are being completely misleading and wrong. Which, according to Rasmussen statistics, happens 100% of the time.  

                    Report Abuse
              • Author by bkboase3653 (September 14, 2007 5:47 pm ET)
                   

                Wes,

                Unless you are positing that the Iraqis will definitiely be ready to take over security such that "US troops will be withdrawn in a year" you are full of it. 22% want immediate withdrawal, 42% want a gradual withdrawal over the course of a year, 24% favor waiting til Iraqis are capable of taking over, 2% want to send more troops, 10% don't know. Bush's plan falls under #3. Nothing to date from anyone indicates the Iraqis will be 'ready' in a year. I would say, nice try at spin, but it was really a pathetic attempt on your part.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2007 6:01 pm ET)
               

            This poll does not comport with the aggregate of information that CLEARLY says the overwhelming majority of us folks want to get out of Iraq. And the sooner the better. Don't be coy. I only flirt with the handsome, vain one.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2007 6:03 pm ET)
                 

              That was directed at Wes way back.

              Report Abuse
            • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 6:14 pm ET)
                 

               - the overwhelming majority of us folks want to get out of Iraq. And the sooner the better - juliajayne

              Well, of course they do...but not immediately or quickly. That's why the democratic leadership is afraid to confront the American people with their "get the hell out now" plan. 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 6:17 pm ET)
                   

                i think bush would disagree that immediately or over the next year is anything but what it is: "quickly".  he does not favor any time limits on complete withdrawal.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 6:21 pm ET)
                     

                  Speaking of next year...the FOX follow up question on Iraq found that:

                  If America was hit by a terrorist attack...50% favor Rudy Giuliani as president vs. only 36% for Hillary Clinton. 

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 6:25 pm ET)
                       

                    i looked up changing the subject in the dictionary.   there was your picture.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 6:27 pm ET)
                         

                      You may prefer to be spoon fed by mmfa...I like to look around and enjoy everything that is on the plate.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 6:29 pm ET)
                           

                        i accept your surrender.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 6:40 pm ET)
                             

                          Suit yourself...but principles aren't surrendered...unless of course...you're part of the leadership of the democrat party.

                          If the issue is cut and dried...as you proclaim...why are the democrats surrendering their antiwar position?

                          With the "overwhelming number" of get the hell out now supporters...it should be a slam dunk...you remember what happened to illegal immigration reform when the public got behind the issue with "overwhelming" support...in defiance of the plan presented by Pres.Bush.

                           

                           

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by mefirst (September 14, 2007 6:47 pm ET)
                               

                            as usual you miss the point, or more accurately attempt to change it when you can't defend it.  your principles are one thing.   the point here would be that you tried to portray this article as dishonest and you tried to infer that  the american people don't want us out of iraq at least within the next year.   but i guess it does say one thing about you when you combine numbers to say things that don't support what you claim they do.  just my opinion.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 6:52 pm ET)
                                 

                               - the point here would be that you tried to portray this article as dishonest - mefirst

                              By jove again...I think...we agree. 

                              Report Abuse
                          • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 10:47 pm ET)
                               

                            You are switching the subject. You tried to portray the numbers of MMFA as dishonest.

                            But it is you who ended up being dishonest.  

                            Report Abuse
              • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2007 7:40 pm ET)
                   

                Sorry, Wes, you saying so doesn't make it so. But I realize you've got nothing.

                Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (September 14, 2007 5:18 pm ET)
         

      Last I heard somewhere close 70% of us want to leave. You believe a fox pole um. link it if you please.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (September 14, 2007 5:51 pm ET)
         

      I can't seem to get the file to open. No I didn't read the whole thing. On review Mefirst has it, and you seem to be selling what is in that creek that finds one without a paddle

      Report Abuse
      • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 5:57 pm ET)
           

        52. Based on General Petraeus's new report, do you think the United States should: SCALE: 1. Pull out all troops immediately 2. Pullout all troops gradually over the next year 3. Pull out after Iraqi troops are capable of taking over 4. Send more troops 5. Don't know

        (1) 22%

        (2) 42%

        (3) 24%

        (4) 2%

        (5) 10%  

        Report Abuse
        • Author by juliajayne (September 14, 2007 9:35 pm ET)
             

          Yep, 66% want us out very immediately or within the next year. Wesley has nada. But you don't need a poll to know the American people want us out of Iraq as soon as possible.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 10:09 pm ET)
               

            Having a little trouble with our math, are we?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 10:13 pm ET)
                 

              Whenever you are challenged in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable, you become a troll.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 10:26 pm ET)
                   

                I guess that makes two of you who think 22 + 42 = 66.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 10:34 pm ET)
                     

                  And you comment on my supposed inability to read. I have 64% in other posts. 

                  juliajayne 

                  probably got the 66% stuick in his/her head from your statistic. Or maybe, gosh, she/he made  an  error in arithmatic, the kind even advanced mathmaticians can make. But his/her point still remains valid, a point you don't care to address.

                  But you like to derail the topic when you are wrong. Which, according to Rasmussen statistics, happens 100% of the time.  

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by wesley (September 14, 2007 10:45 pm ET)
                       

                    Nothing to derail...mmfa and the gutless democrats who are afraid to fight for their convictions...and instead spend their time spinning polling data and whining about the "will of the people".

                    You've got your work cut out for you boy, with those worthless leaders. The ball's in your court...otherwise it looks like as long as Pres.Bush is the commander in chief...we're going to stay in the fight to win.

                     

                     

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by funnymanpants (September 14, 2007 10:51 pm ET)
                         

                      Sure, Wesley. Utter some nonsense macho stuff after you were completely wrong about the numbers. I guess you think I'm fooled.

                      And I doubt Bush is going to win anything, except the prize of being the worst president in history.  

                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by solon (September 16, 2007 6:18 pm ET)
                         

                      And yet you tried with your dishonest try at pretending it made sense to add an open ended timeframe with a withdrawl timetable. I guess YOU have your hands full defending your preferred and very ignorant lets get as many Americans killed as we can policy. Yeah, good luck with that

                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by juliajayne (September 15, 2007 5:36 pm ET)
                       

                    Yeah, 64 is so different than 66. Sorry about the error, but the point stands. Get a general concept, dude. You're being reduced to arguing math errors? Like I said, you've got nuttin', honey.

                    Report Abuse

my.MediaMatters.org

Login  Sign Up

Push Back

Phone calls, emails and letters from the public do make a difference. Remember that to be effective you must be polite, and professional. Express your specific concerns regarding that particular news report or commentary, and indicate what you would like the media outlet to do differently in the future.