MSNBC asks about "GOP hypocrisy?" in denunciations of MoveOn but silence on Limbaugh's "Senator Betrayus" comments
SUMMARY: While discussing what he suggested might be "hypocrisy when it comes to
political attacks" with regard to a MoveOn.org ad headlined "General Petraeus or
General Betray Us?" and comments by Rush Limbaugh about "Senator Betrayus, new
name for Senator Hagel," MSNBC's David Shuster asked Rep. Marsha Blackburn,
"Where was the outrage when Rush Limbaugh said this about Republican Senator
Chuck Hagel over one of the senator's stances on Iraq?"
As the blog Crooks & Liars noted, on the September 24 edition of MSNBC's Tucker, guest host David Shuster began an interview with Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN) by noting that there was a "Republican outcry" over MoveOn.org's September 10 advertisement headlined "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" that appeared in The New York Times." Shuster suggested that "there's a bigger question ... of hypocrisy when it comes to political attacks," and asked Blackburn: "Where was the outrage when Rush Limbaugh said this about Republican Senator Chuck Hagel [NE] over one of the senator's stances on Iraq?" Shuster then read comments, previously highlighted by Media Matters for America, that Rush Limbaugh made on the January 25 broadcast (subscription required) of his nationally syndicated radio show: "By the way, we had a caller call, couldn't stay on the air, got a new name for Senator Hagel in Nebraska, we got General Petraeus and we got Senator Betrayus, new name for Senator Hagel."
Shuster asked Blackburn, "Do you want to take this opportunity to condemn what Rush Limbaugh said about Chuck Hagel?" Blackburn responded: "[W]hat I want to do is talk about The New York Times." Shuster then repeatedly asked Blackburn about whether the Limbaugh comment was "wrong" and what the "difference" was between Limbaugh's comment and the MoveOn advertisement. After several such queries, Blackburn stated: "Rush Limbaugh should not have done that."
From the September 24 edition of MSNBC's Tucker:
SHUSTER: Do you want to take this opportunity to condemn what Rush Limbaugh said about Chuck Hagel?
BLACKBURN: You know, what I want to do is talk about The New York Times. And probably, Rush --
SHUSTER: Well --
BLACKBURN: Rush Limbaugh could have gotten by without saying that, but he was referencing a call --
SHUSTER: Could have gotten by? It was wrong, wasn't it?
BLACKBURN: He was referencing what a caller said and --
SHUSTER: Right, but it was wrong for a caller or for Rush Limbaugh to call Chuck Hagel "Senator Betrayus," right?
BLACKBURN: But Rush Limbaugh did not go in and buy an ad and place it with The New York Times and get a special, preferred rate and --
SHUSTER: But --
BLACKBURN: -- turn around --
SHUSTER: So there's a difference between buying an ad in The New York Times and Rush Limbaugh hearing something that he likes to hear from one of his viewers and repeating it on the air. What's the distinction? Why is there a distinction?
BLACKBURN: Rush Limbaugh should not have done that.
Earlier in the show, Shuster previewed the interview with Blackburn by calling it a "Hypocrisy Watch," and asking, "[W]here is the outrage over conservative radio show host comments about a Republican senator? Are Republicans playing a risky game of political hypocrisy?" When Shuster introduced the interview and talked about the "bigger question ... of hypocrisy," the words "GOP Hypocrisy?" appeared on-screen.
On September 25, MSNBC's website highlighted the video of Shuster's interview with Blackburn, placing it on the front page of the website for the Tucker program. The text highlighting the video said that Blackburn "discusse[d] the inconsistency of the defense of the attacks against MoveOn.org for its 'General Betray Us' ad."
Additionally, on the September 24 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann, host Keith Olbermann named Limbaugh the "winner" in his nightly "Worst Person in the World" segment for his "Senator Betrayus" comments. Olbermann noted that Limbaugh "called the MoveOn.org 'Betray Us' ad 'contemptible' and 'indecent,' " adding: "Guess who seems to have been the first to introduce the pun on General Petraeus' name to national broadcasting?" Olbermann read Limbaugh's January 25 remarks and stated: "So not only is your outrage about the use of the phrase 'betray us' to question patriotism or duty phony, it's your phrase." Limbaugh frequently appears on Olbermann's "Worst Person" list, as Media Matters has noted (here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here).
Olbermann also named Fox News host Bill O'Reilly the "runner-up" for "Worst Person in the World" for, as Media Matters documented, O'Reilly's claim: "I respect dissent on the Iraq war." O'Reilly was responding to a viewer who had written to his show asking that he "stop labeling those who criticize our continued stay in Iraq as anti-American." As Olbermann and Media Matters noted, O'Reilly claimed that such criticism was "from far-left Loonville." Olbermann then cited several examples, previously documented by Media Matters, in which O'Reilly had attacked individuals and the media with whom he disagreed on the Iraq war:
- On the September 10 edition of his nationally syndicated radio show, O'Reilly asserted: "I know that MoveOn is rooting against us." He continued: "The leftists are rooting against their own country."
- On the August 8 edition of Fox News' The O'Reilly Factor, O'Reilly claimed that "the cut-and-run club, led by [Sen.] Barack Obama [D-IL] and Congressman John Murtha [D-PA], continues to pound the drum of defeat in Iraq." He later said that PBS journalist Bill Moyers "symbolizes those Americans who want their country to lose in Iraq based upon a hatred of all things Bush."
- On the May 2 edition of The O'Reilly Factor, O'Reilly claimed that at the beginning of the war in Iraq, "everybody in the country [was] behind it, except the kooks."
From the September 24 edition of MSNBC's Tucker:
SHUSTER: Also, tonight, a special Shuster edition of "Hypocrisy Watch." Republicans keep talking about that "Betray Us" ad, but they have not said a peep about a similar statement made by Rush Limbaugh. Get out the lighter fluid because we've got a grilling for you later in the hour.
[...]
SHUSTER: And coming up, Republicans blast MoveOn.org for their ad attacking the top U.S. general in Iraq. But where is the outrage over conservative radio show host comments about a Republican senator? Are Republicans playing a risky game of political hypocrisy?
[...]
SHUSTER: The Republican outcry is beginning to die down over that MoveOn ad, the one running in The New York Times that posed the question -- "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" But there's a bigger question left unanswered, a question of hypocrisy when it comes to political attacks. Where was the outrage when Rush Limbaugh said this about Republican Senator Chuck Hagel over one of the senator's stances on Iraq? Limbaugh said, "By the way, we had a caller call, couldn't stay on the air, got a new name for Senator Hagel of Nebraska. We got General Petraeus and we got Senator Betrayus, new name for Senator Hagel."
Here to discuss all this is Marsha Blackburn, a Republican congresswoman from Tennessee. And, Congresswoman, thanks for coming in.
BLACKBURN: Good to be with you.
SHUSTER: Do you want to take this opportunity to condemn what Rush Limbaugh said about Chuck Hagel?
BLACKBURN: You know, what I want to do is talk about The New York Times. And probably, Rush --
SHUSTER: Well --
BLACKBURN: Rush Limbaugh could have gotten by without saying that, but he was referencing a call --
SHUSTER: Could have gotten by? It was wrong, wasn't it?
BLACKBURN: He was referencing what a caller said and --
SHUSTER: Right, but it was wrong for a caller or for Rush Limbaugh to call Chuck Hagel "Senator Betrayus," right?
BLACKBURN: But Rush Limbaugh did not go in and buy an ad and place it with The New York Times and get a special, preferred rate and --
SHUSTER: But --
BLACKBURN: -- turn around --
SHUSTER: So there's a difference between buying an ad in The New York Times and Rush Limbaugh hearing something that he likes to hear from one of his viewers and repeating it on the air. What's the distinction? Why is there a distinction?
BLACKBURN: Rush Limbaugh should not have done that. But Rush Limbaugh did not go out and buy an ad with -- and circumvent The New York Times. It takes two weeks for them to tell the truth on this, and we find out that they did get a favored rate. They did choose --
SHUSTER: Yeah, but they didn't know they got a favored rate --
BLACKBURN: But they did choose.
SHUSTER: --and as soon as they found out they got a favored rate, they wrote a check.
BLACKBURN: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't believe that. I think they did get --
SHUSTER: I understand that this is an issue that -- you're very concerned, of course, about the MoveOn ad, is that right?
BLACKBURN: Everybody is concerned about the MoveOn ad. And everybody is concerned about what seems to be the violation of the -- the public trust by The New York Times. Look, we all know that their circulation is down, that their stock is down, that they -- I think it was last year fired 500 people. Everyone is aware of that. But my goodness, but to find out now that they are fire selling their ad space.
From the September 24 edition of MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann:
OLBERMANN: First, time for Countdown's "Worst Persons in the World."
Senator David Vitter [R] of Louisiana takes the bronze. Sneaked an earmark into an appropriations bill, $100,000 to the Louisiana Family Forum, quote, "to develop a plan to promote better science education." By better, the Louisiana Family Forum evidently turns out to mean better be without Darwin in it. They want creationism taught. Senator Vitter, Senator Vitter, tell us again the story of when the Lord created callgirls.
Your runner up is Bill-O. Somebody wrote in to ask that he stop labeling those who criticize our continued stay in Iraq as anti-American. Bill explains he "welcomes dissent on this program" and he promptly insisted the writer was, quote, "from the far-left loonville." Yes, that's welcoming dissent. And so is claiming, quote, "the leftists are rooting against their own country." And so was calling Senator Obama the leading "cut-and-run club." And so was saying Bill Moyers symbolizes those "who want their country to lose in Iraq." And so was branding anybody against the war at its start "kooks." And so was concluding that MSNBC "delights in showing Iraqi violence."
You welcome dissent as long as nobody disagrees with you.
Who can top that? Well, our winner, comedian Rush Limbaugh. He called the MoveOn.org "Betray Us" ad contemptible and indecent. Guess who seems to have been the first to introduce the pun on General Petraeus' name to national broadcasting? January 25th of this year, he gurgled, quote, "By the way, we had a caller call, couldn't stay on the air. Got a new name for Senator Hagel of Nebraska. We got General Petraeus and we've got Senator Betrayus, new name for Senator Hagel."
So not only is your outrage about the use of the phrase "betray us" to question patriotism or duty phony, it's your phrase. Comedian Rush Limbaugh, big flaming fraud, today's Worst Person in the World!
I saw this earlier, wish they'd keep tucker on vacation permanently. Shuster had the guts to be fair, and I for one am greatful!
Oh, and the GOP are hypocrites, proven once again. Blackburn sounds like tattoo - "the ad, boss! The ad!"
Being from Tennessee, I especially enjoyed watching this. Blackburn is a Right Wing hack. She's the darling of local Troglodyte Talk Radio, because she had the "courage" to vote against a state income tax.
Doesn't really make the MoveOn ad look any better to me to think they may have gotten the idea from Rush. It's a good organization in many ways but they seem to have some bad instincts at times in terms of how to reach the mainstream.
Nice to see there is starting to be at least a little bit of blowback on the GOP for the Patraeus stunt.
SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!
Doesn't really make the MoveOn ad look any better to me to think they may have gotten the idea from Rush. It's a good organization in many ways but they seem to have some bad instincts at times in terms of how to reach the mainstream. // SUNDOG
What have we been talking about for the past weeks?? The War! Sure, the Republicans changed the specific subject to jump on the add, yet while doing so we see the nation noticing what Republican Hypocracy has gotten us, and what a Democratic Majority will bring us!
Perpetual war and Republican contractors looting the American tresuary, and distroying social programs that stil keep us among the civilized world, but only barely, while the Democrats offer a restoration of Democracy, and civility in America that no one will ever believe a Republican good deliver!
Happy Thoughts;
Dan Grady
Kind of jumping around there Dan. Your response seems to imply that you believe I don't share these goals? I was speaking pretty specifically about the choice of the ad, not that Democrats or groups like MoveOn shouldn't be taking the GOP on in regards to the war. My point was that a better ad may have been more productive. And sadly what would have been more productive is if the Democrats had the instincts to call the GOP out on their grandstanding about the whole thing.
Picture if instead of Betrayus the ad had a picture of the general alongside Bush and said something like, "Report or Political Theater?" Maybe they could have come up with something snappier. I like that one because of the way Bush likes to accuse other people of political theater and that's clearly what he was pulling here.
My point is that going directly at the character of Patraeus is what the GOP was praying someone would do. His reputation would suffer enough slings and arrows once people understood that the Report had been a foregone conclusion. MoveOn gave the GOP an opportunity to make it appear that the opposition was just pulling a hatchet job.
Especially about this crap that moveon got some discounted rate. So what? What does that have to do with anything? Can't the times charge whatever they want to whoever they want? Or are the GOP crybabies claiming preferential treatment too?
Snoopy, at the very least you should be disappointed that the NYTimes giving MoveOn a discounted rate is clearly an example of bias. It is a big deal.
If the times is only giving discount rates to liberals, you can make that claim. That hasn't been proven. Papers discount rates all the time based on day of the week, frequency of postings, marketing specials, etc. etc. etc. This is just the GOP making another mountain out of a molehill.
Snoopy, I think the issue is that MoveOn.org paid the "whenever it fits" rate for the ad, but requested a particular day and got it. I agree that if there was no coincidence like that, there's no story.
This has been covered by lots of places. Moveon didn't get a "special" rate (I think MMFA had an article about it on here as a matter of fact). They got the same rate that a conservative group would get if THEY wanted to run an ad. Aside from that, let's not forget the glowing remarks that filled the same pages of the same villified New York Times about the General's testimony, and how they were all for going to war back in '02 and '03.
SunDog isn't this the same tactic I proposed yesterday? Shouldn't the media be applying the same standard to repugs. Now let's see the DNC and our candidates wise up and expose the hypocrisy here.
Great question by Shuster, where was the outrage when Rush Limbaugh smeared Hagel?
Beautiful politics on the part of the Republicans; congratulations.
Thank you Newt for introducing the ploy of "mock outrage." Your minions carried it out to a tee over the Petraeus advert. You even managed to have the U.S. Senate condemn private speech. Can amending the First Amendment be far behind?
Shuster also asked Rep. Blackburn is she could name the last soldier from her district killed in Iraq.
When she couldn't he buried her by comparing her concern about a newspaper ad and her lack of concern for her constituents.
It's been a long time since I've seen a Republican treated like that on tv.
:-)
I was just about to mention that. Crooks and Liars was all over the portion of this interview pertaining to a very young soldier named Jeremy Bohannon.
Kudos to Shuster for exposing her and the rest of the Republicans.
Nice job here by Schuster...
I sent him a congratulatory e-mail. One gem in a pile of corporate media dung.
That IS excellent.
Though, sadly, it'll probably be the last time we see it for a while. It's like a new pitcher in baseball. He might have great stuff, but by the end of the season, everyone will have seen his pitches and know how to hit him.
In this case, wingers will just avoid this interviewer in the future.
(Notice that we don't see many "Get To Know A District" segments on Colbert lately? That slowed down significantly after incidents such as when the Ten Commandments advocate couldn't name the Ten Commandments.)
Pete, I have to add my thanks for sharing. That is one of the BEST interviews I've seen regarding this war.
I loved her long drawn out effort to backpeddle about e-mailing soldiers from her district, a chaplain, soldiers families. I wonder if she could name one person she e-mailed?
Now that was a classic! Thanks for sharing that Pete, it just goes to show what's important to some of the elected officials we have.
I believed this was settled with some simple math earlier in the week...
Rush = Senator Hagel as betraying his political party.
Bowelmovement.org = General Petraeus as betraying his COUNTRY.
And this from http://www.democrats.com/node/9407
But Lieberman has obviously decided that taking a Senate seat that Democrats desperately need to retain and throwing it open to a three-way race is just something we're all going to have to live with to accommodate his thirst for continued power. And make no mistake about it, Lieberman's actions could very well result in Republican nominee Alan Schlesinger coming away with a close victory in a race that could see Democratic votes split between Traitor Joe and Ned Lamont.
Performing this grotesque act of vanity when our country has so much at stake -- including a bloody war, a crippling budget deficit, a health care crisis, a minimum wage that hasn't gone up in a decade and the possibility of another Supreme Court nominee in the next Congress -- is Joe Lieberman's most hideous act of betrayal yet.
"I have loyalties that are greater than those to my party," said Lieberman on Monday.
Media Matters (very little) needs to move on to another topic and loose the next argument, too.
By the way, how did Mahmookie Hiamamadman the president of Iran get the democrat talking points for his 60 Minutes interview?
Good point. The fact that to Republicans, betraying the Party means the same thing as betraying the country means to Democrats is immaterial.
Archie,
The point is that there is no parity between the two. To call someone a betrayer of country is more serious than someone who betrays political party. Rush did this as those who also called Senator Lieberman a traitor. I think those both had politics in mind when they made those comments.
BM.org challenged the integrity of someone representing our county and military. If they want to be taken seriously, they need to understand the impact of their words and shouldn't be surprised when Americans react as strongly as they did.
However, I applaud them for distinguishing what the 'left' believes from the rest of America. The ad defined in clear terms how some view their own county, its aims, ideals and direction and who would truly represent those beliefs in governmental leadership.
Dear ProudCON...
You're self righteous post is not persuasive.
Do you even know what the Move On ad said?
Did you scream and cry this loud when John Kerry was Swiftboated by a pack of liars? Did you howl and moan when Max Cleland (a triple amputee Vietnam Vet) was smeared and compared with Osama Bin Laden.
Are you a hypocrite? Tell the truth.
Beedunked,
I remember something about swiftboating, ie telling the truth about, Kerry but I guess he wasn't able to refute because either he was too busy trying to remember the Christmas songs being sung by the Buddist Monks he met in Cambodia or because the TRUTH resonated with the public.
As for Sen. Cleland, the ad's questioned his liberal leanings in the area of defense, I think he even used Zell Miller in ads to counter the ads that had him morphing into Osama. But were those before or after he accused Chambliss of wanting to starve senior citizens by taking away their social security? Anyway, he's gotten a nice gig with Mother Sheehan hanging out in Crawford, TX, hasn't he?
Hey DumbCon...
I mean ProudCon.
You just proved what a pathetic hypocrite you are. And you proved how stupid you are by not acknowledging that John Kerry was smeared by the Swiftboaters.
You're a perfect example of why the Con movement is in its last days. The American people are waking up to the lies.
ProudMoron. The Swift Boat Liars for Rent DIDNT tell the truth about Kerry. They LIED. They were refuted by the official records and the huge majority of eye witnesses and pretty much everyone with a functional brainpan. Again just because you WISH something were true doesnt MAKE it true
ProudCON, a strong case could be made that, given the preponderance of "Defeatocrat" rhetoric in the Republican songbook, to the Right, betraying the Party is EXACTLY the same thing as betraying the nation.
Just because PM along with a few other conservatives convieniently SAY that Limbaugh MEANT Hagel was betraying his party is not evidence this is so. I saw NOTHING in what Limbaugh said that would specify that was what he was talking about. PM WISHING it were so doesnt MAKE IT so.
Gee ProudCON, that's a really relevant comparison...
Give us a link to your grammar school, so we can verify you completed the 5th grade.
So what? BUSH betrayed our country, and I've got the right to say it, and place ads in papers if I can afford to.
What are you going to do about it? Cry? waaaa. waaaaa!
Kevbo,
Go and shout that from the mountaintops! The more you spew the more honestly Americans will be able to see who truly represents their ideals.
When politicians run away from the description of 'liberal' they must see that means something to their detriment in an election. Let people honestly say what they believe and have clear definitions placed upon their expectation for political leadership. Then let the election chips fall where they may!
Agreed?
If conservatives really put their country first, they wouldn't have lied us into war.
Easy. Those talking points are the same ones coming from Al Jazerra.
I thought I had the better math.
Rush and Moveon use same joke, media goes after ONLY Moveon= hypocrisy
ProudMoron not knowing what he is talking about=dead certainty
I found nothing wrong with the Moveon.org ad.
What I would like someone to answer is when General Petraeus places his personal opinion on the war in an op-ed piece does he not place himself in the arena for being criticized? If he has the freedom to express himself in publicly why is he off limits for being criticized in the same public arena?
This guy said it best:
The role of the military is to advise and then carry out lawful policies and orders, not to make them. Richard B. Myers
Pearls before swine,
I read the BM.org ad. It seems to lay the responsibility of the problems in Iraq and with misinformation at Petraeus' feet. you comment that soldiers only do what they are told. Which is it?
Again, the ad demonstrates a philosophy that permeates the left, "We will leave no stone unturned when it comes to attacking Bush, even if it is a General serving his country".
The ad was meant to attack President Bush but rather than directly say that, they attack the messenger. When the public is repulsed, the left is surprised that the majority of Americans don't find their ideology appealing.
That's why I'm always glad when the left does speak out and speak clearly. It helps clarify what the democrat party really stands for!
ProudConservative,
Well said. It gets better every day in every way when the base of the Democrat party speaks out.
Big problem for Democrats who want to win elections though.
Imagine you’re such a Democrat (I know - but try for a minute). The big bucks are coming from Soros and the other folks way out there on the left. Of course, there’s plenty of money coming from the unions, trial lawyers etc. as well, but these folks aren’t being given nearly as much media coverage by the MSM as the Soros-Sheehan-Move-on types.
You look at the congressional approval ratings. You try to make sense of polling on Iraq that says we need to give it more time and effort. You know down deep in your heart that most voters don’t really WANT us to walk away from the Middle East leaving the field to Al Qaeda and good old Mahmoud - especially with Mahmoud in charge of a very aggressive nuclear weapons development program.
What to do? Well, if you’re smart, you do exactly what Hillary is doing: fake a dive to the center in hopes (with lots of help from the MSM, of course) that you can fool both your party’s left and maybe even a few in “the center”.
Imagine you are dumb enough to still be a Republican. Brainwashed enough to still be buying the MINDLESS propaganda that leaving Iraq will mean al Queda will take over Iraq. Ok its tough. Its hard to believe ANYONE with a double digit IQ would still buy such transparent propagandistic BULL but they are out there. Pretend for one moment you are DUMB enough to believe the majority of Americans DONT want to bring the troops home. The question is. Is it time to increase your medication or begin listening AT LAST to those of us that have been RIGHT ALL ALONG.
Sorry, Solon. It’s too much of a stretch. I couldn’t even imagine I was a Democrat trying to figure out whether to excrete or go blind given the lack of success by my guys and gals in congress.
Okay. I think I get it. The majority of the country really wants us out of Iraq. Well then, I guess it must be that congressional Democrats are just too dumb to bring it off even with a bunch of gutless RINOs who are more scared of the NYT than their own constituents helping them - and, of course, all of these enraged citizens who “want us out of Iraq”.
Solon, you’ve got to face the truth, Man. I know you’re way up there in the triple digits wrto IQ so you can do it. Your guys are afraid to buck what they KNOW public opinion to be.
When a General writes an op-ed piece for a major newspaper he is expressing HIS opinion The general in his Sept. 24, 2004 op-ed piece applauded what he called major progress by the Iraq military, Iraqi police and Iraqi leadership. Since the year is 2007 we know each and every word uttered by General Petraeus was a lie. Progress has not been made on any front in Iraq. Military, Police and Iraqi leadership is at the same place now as they were when General Petraeus wrote his glowing op-ed piece. Why did the general choose to write such a piece when your in active military you do not write op-ed pieces for major newspapers. You are there to follow orders not state your own personal opinion. Why is it acceptable for the General to publicly express HIS opinion but Americans are not allowed to express their opinion of HIM publicly? We are allowing American men and women to die in Iraq for the freedom to express themselves but right here at home we want no one to expressing opinions especially if the opinion is different from the kool-aid drinkers. Some example of democracy. I’m surprised that the kool-aid drinkers have not sentenced Moveon.org to death by firing squad, that’s what Saddam would have done.
No one on the left has to do much attacking Junior. If there ever was a man who has perfected the art of shooting himself in the foot, it’s Junior. Why bother attacking when he’s doing such a good job all own his own.
On a side note PC, you appear to lack any manners. Real conservatives who post her while not agreeing have both manners and class both of which you appear to lack. The petty posting name appear small minded and childish.
Pearlene,
Patraeus gave his honest assessment in Sep 04. Did he claim then that three years from now we’ll have won the day in Iraq and Iraq will be self-governing, etc.? No. He said that progress was encouraging. And, in fact, it was. Yet you claim “every word he uttered was a lie”. Do you appreciate how outrageous that statement is given the facts. No wonder your side of the political divide is in disarray. People are not as stupid as many of you would hope. They actually listen to and read the words uttered and make a calculation about who is speaking thoughtfully and who is speaking out of rage.
You’re dead wrong about the Iraqi military and the Iraqi police being in the same state now that they were in 04. They’re in much better shape and getting better all the time. They are in total charge of most of Iraq. Our guys are carrying out attacks based on new intel and in many cases, our guys are merely supporting Iraqi units in these attacks. Cheez. Read about what’s actually going on from some sources other than left wing media outlets.
As for free expression, same comment. The criticism against the Move-on ad was that it called Patraeus a traitor. No one from Move-on got locked up for that but they got what they deserved: outrage from the other side.
Ciao!
Delusion as usual from you. Aug was the second deadliest month ON RECORD in Iraq. The stats show NO real improvement there. Keep spouting the news from planet Wingnut. I prefer REALITY from Planet Earth
If you thought August was deadly, hang on. The Iranian business is likely to come to a head before the November election. In fact, I notice that the congressional Democrats are pushing through sanction legislation against Iran. My sense is that it’s their attempt to both look tough and thwart any thoughts the Bush administration may have of mounting a military campaign against Mahmoud. Should be interesting.
Also, we have Hezbollah trying to murder their way into a majority presence in the Lebanese parliament. Lots more violence coming up in the Middle East.ProudMoron, I am glad when they speak directly too. I notice more people are listening and less are swayed by the kind of moronic rightwing propaganda that has brainwashed the likes of YOU. Notice the results of the last election.
Solon,
Right. (I'm assuming it's okay for me to answer even though you didn't address me - or was the "moron" part intended to represent the "Marine" part?). Anyway, where was I?
Oh, yes. You folks keep claiming that election was the mandate to bring home the troops. You have a congressional majority and plenty of scared RINO congressionals (not as scared as they used to be, it appears). Why hasn’t it happened?
Pearlene,
It wasn't merely criticism. Move-on called Patraeus a traitor.
Oldmarine, when a General writes an opinion piece in the Washington Post Sept. 24, 2004 saying how well things are going in Iraq it is a LIE. When that same General writes in his opinion piece that we have made major progress in the Iraqi military, police and leadership and yet 2007 we are still in the same position that is another LIE.
What do you call a General who lied and continues to lie to his country?
Pearlene,
I got out of sync. Please see reply immediately above.
This is one of the funniest things I've seen yet.
Proudconservative this one is just for you http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/09/bush-speech-has.html
The sad part is that MoveOn.org is considered a PRO-war organization by real liberals. They promoted pro-war Democrats in the last two elections and promote the continued occupation "redeployment" plan. They're not looked on as a liberal org by the anti-war movement, but as patsies of the pro-war Democrats.
Wow! Is that true? "Real" liberals? Anything left of Move-on is pretty scary (kinda like a mad man running around with an ax) - but I'll take your word they're really out there. ;-)
Oh yes. I am definitly to the left of Moveon. We are a lot better than the madmen running the country and not half as delusional as YOU are kinda like a guy drooling on himself while knitting something that isnt there.
I'm quaking in my boots. All that IQ and energy. We're (us neocons, that is) doomed.
I click on a link for Limbaugh and get Olbermann. Way to cheerlead guys.
Gimme an O, gimme an L, gimme a B, gimme an E, gimme an R M A N N, WHATS THAT SPELL? OLBERMANN yea yea yea!!!!!
Me, I want to know where Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly were when Max Cleland (a man who lost both of his legs in Vietnam, mind you) was being slimed, unmercifully, in Georgia. I mean, seriously, are these bastards so beyond the pail in terms of partisanship that they'll frigging turn the other cheek when a Democratic war-hero gets savaged, unmercifully? I mean, that's what it seems like to me. And, what, we're not supposed to question the military at all now, question why Bush himself had the temerity to even put Petreaus into the political arena, in the first place? Seriously, though, have not we learned anything from the Colin Powell United Nations fiasco? Evidently NOT. For more on this and other examples of O'Reilly hypocrisy, please check out paranoiacstoogetalk.blogspot.com
David Shuster should get his own permanent show. He is not a hack like a lot of the other commentators on cable news. He really nailed this phony Republican woman.
I am enjoying seeing Paul Waldman on MSNBC this morning discussing the O'Reilly incident du jour. It amazes me that O'Reilly remains on air. Is there any other television or radio personality who exhibits such instability and yet keeps his hour in prime-time?
Hey, Keith O.! Can I nominate Tucker Carlson for "Worst Person In The World?" I don't watch O'Reilly, but I do watch Tucker's show and imagine calling him obscene names almost every day. Several weeks ago Katrina Vanden Heuvel was on the show and Tucker was just foul to her! I was furious! I almost sent him an email calling him all the nasty names I could think of. I ended up cooling off and later emailing the show thanking MSNBC for having David Shuster replace Tucker when he went on his "extended vacation." Any evidence Tucker was on probation? He deserved to be!
David Shuster should permanently replace Tucker. I was watching the show, and went "Oooooooo!" when he asked Rep. Blackburn if she could name the last soldier from her district who had been killed in Iraq! I bet Blackburn has never had to face an interviewer who called her out on her mindless talking points! I'm sure she doesn't email the soldiers or their families, not personally anyway. She probably has one of her interns fill in the blanks on some form letter for her. Heartless, heartless, heartless.
Shuster should win a Pulitzer or something for his insightful interviews and reporting. Let Fox have Tucker Carlson. Joe Scarborough has evolved.
Keith Olbermann is the greatest thing since Edward R. Murrow! If anyone has missed his "Special Comments" please watch them on YouTube or MSNBC.com/Countdown. Will give you chills!
Er, I believe that the caller and Rush were speaking about Hagel as a betrayer to the republican party. Not calling his service into question, or his honesty to the American People, but hey liberals, think what you would like. If you cant see a difference between a US Senator and a Serving soldier you are idiots.
Thanks