Defending Limbaugh, Bennett misrepresented Limbaugh's attack on Rep. Murtha
During the "Strategy Session" segment on the October 2 edition of CNN's The Situation Room, conservative talk show host Bill Bennett, purporting to defend Rush Limbaugh against criticism over his recent "phony soldiers" comments, claimed that Limbaugh "did not call [Rep.] Jack Murtha [D-PA] a 'phony soldier.' " Bennett asserted that instead, Limbaugh "took Jack Murtha on, on the merits of the argument." In fact, as Media Matters for America documented, on the September 28 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show -- while responding to the growing criticism over his September 26 characterization of service members who support U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq as "phony soldiers" -- Limbaugh said:
LIMBAUGH: You shouldn't hold your breath because there's no standard to hold me to, in the sense that you're -- I never said what you think I said, Congressman [Frank] Pallone [D-NJ], Congresswoman [Jan] Schakowsky [D-IL], Sen. [John] Kerry [D-MA], or any of the rest of you in the drive-by media. I was talking about a genuine phony soldier. And by the way, Jesse MacBeth's not the only one. How about this guy Scott Thomas [Beauchamp] who was writing fraudulent, phony things in The New Republic about atrocities he saw that never happened? How about Jack Murtha blanketly accepting the notion that Marines at Haditha engaged in wanton murder of innocent children and civilians?
Further, Bennett asserted that Limbaugh was referring to Jesse MacBeth -- a soldier who pleaded guilty to one count of making false statements to the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs for falsely claiming to be an injured Iraq war veteran and a corporal in the Army, as well as of having received a Purple Heart -- when he made his "phony soldiers" comment. Bennett asserted:
BENNETT: The argument was that he used the phrase "phony soldiers": He was talking about a phony soldier. The AP ran a story called "phony soldiers." ABC, three days before Rush's comments, ran a story called "phony soldiers." He was talking about a guy who was lying. He wasn't a corporal in the Army. He didn't get a Purple Heart. That's the guy Rush was talking about. Media Matters left that out.
Later, Democratic strategist Donna Brazile pointed out that Limbaugh "said 'phony soldiers,' so he didn't make the distinction that he was just referring to Mr. MacBeth. He was referring to soldiers who have come out against this war." She added, "[M]any people on the left believe that he was taking on those soldiers [who've served in Iraq and now oppose the war], as well as Mr. MacBeth." Bennett responded: "All you have to do is listen to the show and it is perfectly clear, crystal clear, couldn't be clearer, who he's talking about."
In fact, as Media Matters documented, Limbaugh made no reference to MacBeth during the September 26 broadcast until 1 minute and 50 seconds after making his "phony soldiers" comment. As Media Matters also documented, during his September 28 show, Limbaugh edited the audio clip from his September 26 show to omit a full 1 minute and 35 seconds of discussion that occurred between his original "phony soldiers" comment and his later reference to MacBeth.
From the October 2 edition of CNN's The Situation Room:
BLITZER: What do you think of this Democratic strategy now to go after conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh. One Democratic congressman, Patrick Murphy of Pennsylvania, a veteran himself -- he says, "Someone should tell chicken-hawk Rush Limbaugh that the only phonies are those who choose not to serve and then criticize those who do."
What do you make of this strategy that Harry Reid [D-NV], the Senate majority leader, and others are saying now that Rush Limbaugh was inappropriately offensive to veterans by some of the comments he recently made?
BENNETT: Not much. You know, I'm willing to criticize Republicans and conservatives when they have it wrong. You've heard me do it on this show any of a number of times -- not this time. You know, when you shoot at the king -- and he's the king of talk radio -- you better get him. They didn't get him here.
The argument was that he used the phrase "phony soldiers": He was talking about a phony soldier. The AP ran a story called "phony soldiers." ABC, three days before Rush's comments, ran a story called "phony soldiers." He was talking about a guy who was lying. He wasn't a corporal in the Army. He didn't get a Purple Heart. That's the guy Rush was talking about.
Media Matters left that out. I have been savaged by Media Matters unfairly. They did it this time. There's plenty to disagree with, with Rush if you are on the left, but this isn't. This wasn't fair. Let me tell you why: The "Betray Us" thing has really hurt the Democrats. They say it doesn't, that it was all fair, but this thing is not going away. This is a soldier, a commander in the field, and it really stung --
BLITZER: Because --
BENNETT: -- and they're looking for revenge.
BLITZER: As Bill says, Donna, a lot of people suggest that what Senator Harry Reid and the Democrats were doing in trying to go after Rush Limbaugh on this issue -- quote "phony soldiers" -- was sort of payback for the MoveOn.org and the "General Betray Us" ad that a lot of people think backfired on the Democrats.
BRAZILE: Well, a lot of Americans who care about our troops, we thank our troops, we believe that what they're doing is noble and courageous -- and the left can condemn MoveOn, the right should be able to condemn Rush Limbaugh for the comments he made about "phony soldiers." Not only did he talk about this one soldier, who may be discredited, but he also used Jack Murtha. And many of us believe that Jack Murtha is a courageous American -- he stood up and he fought for his country -- and when Rush Limbaugh take on Jack Murtha, then the left has every right to call on Rush Limbaugh to apologize.
BENNETT: He took on Jack Murtha. He did not call Jack Murtha a "phony soldier." He took Jack Murtha on, on the merits of the argument. It's an entirely different case. You can take on Rush Limbaugh; you can take on George Bush; take on Jack Murtha. Name-calling was about a phony soldier.
BLITZER: 'Cause you saw Bill Clinton last week in the interview with Anderson Cooper. He was really irate.
BENNETT: Seething.
BLITZER: He was seething.
BENNETT: Seething.
BLITZER: Yeah, I think that's a good [inaudible] word.
BRAZILE: [inaudible]
BLITZER: When he pointed out that the Republicans went after veterans like Max Cleland --
BRAZILE: Of course.
BLITZER: -- and John Kerry with the Swift Boat attack and all that.
BRAZILE: He said "phony soldiers," so he didn't make the distinction that he was just referring to Mr. MacBeth. He was referring to soldiers who have come out against this war -- and over a third of MoveOn.org members are soldiers, many of them who've served in Iraq, and they are now opposed to the war. So, many people on the left believe that he was taking on those soldiers, as well as Mr. MacBeth.
BENNETT: All you have to do is listen to the show and it is perfectly clear, crystal clear, couldn't be clearer, who he's talking about.
Spin, spin, spin,
That's what Limbaugh's doin'
Spin, spin, spin,
The soldiers he's a screwin'
Me and you are subject to this jerk now and then
But when you take a lie and make it true
You're deceit shows again
It really shows again
Spin, spin, spin,
Limbaugh is just silly
Spin, spin, spin,
A horse without a filly
Funny thing, this ring a ding likes to play the victim
And before you know it, he's sucked you in,
You're just a ditto head
Spin, spin, spin,
That's what Limbaugh's doin'
Spin, spin, spin,
The soldiers he's a screwin'
Snoop,
I'm not a big fan of Neil Diamond [though Sweet Caroline is a great song] & I don't particularly like Song Sung Blue...but your re-wording was clever, even though I think you went a little overboard there ;-)
I like Billy Joel a lot better. Ever hear his song Shades of Grey? It's from his River of Dreams album. Awesome political song. I won't write out the lyrics but here's the link if you're interested:
http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Shades-Of-Grey-lyrics-Billy-Joel/5D181FA0CA3A3DF748256870001FCDA2
All this hullabaloo over Rush & MoveOn.Org has left me scratching my head. Much ado about nothing & pretty meaningless in the larger scheme of things if you ask me. Certainly not worthy of Congress's time. Political cat fighting/posturing that only wastes precious time that could be used on more important matters.
I always thought "piano man" was the best song Billy J ever wrote, he seemed to spend way to much time reaching after that hit.
Jeter, I understand what you're saying, but I have to say this is a fight worth taking on. The left has been marginalized for a decade now by the very ones who did it and now claim victim status. This isn't a battle you take on with nuclear war, you take it on one fight at a time. I want to get back to equal air time, we were very civilized even when Nixon was prez. Without a fairness doctrine we ain't gonna get it by sitting on the sidelines going "oh, no one wants to hear my side".
Captain Jack was always my favorite.
I think you both have a point. I hate to see Congress piddling away its time on policing the media, but I also think Rush has gone unchallenged for too long. This particular fight is probably not a winner for the Democrats, though, since Rush has a reasonable sounding excuse. They should have nailed him earlier when he downplayed American casualties in Iraq by comparing it to crime rates in American cities, or when he said soldiers should stop whining, since they volunteered.
NOTE to Bill Bennett:
As self-appointed VIRTUE-GURU, you should know that lying is a SIN, and has no virtue. There is no virtue in misinforming, being disingenuous, or making excuses for people that do not wish their words to have consequence.
If you wish to promote VIRTUE, and at the same time bemoan the "DECLINE" of society, it falls to you to NOT be a partisan hack, reciting rightwing talking points and helping "explain away" the clear meaning of your colleagues' words.
You should, in short, lead by example. If America were to "follow your lead" in this instance, this would be a nation of lying, dishonest partisan stooges. You don't want THAT, do you, Bill? Say it ain't so!
US NewsMurtha ordered to testify in Haditha defamation caseBy Karyn Chenoweth <!-- Author End -->Sep 30, 2007, 21:21 GMT
A Federal judge has issued orders to Rp. Jack Murtha (D-PA) to testify in the Haditha defamation case.
The defamation case is related to the deaths of Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha in 2005, according to the Associated Press.
Murtha, a former Marine. accused Marines of "cold-blooded murder and war crimes'' during the Haditha incident.
Frank Wuterich, a Marine sergeant involved in the incident, has sued Murtha for libel and invasion of privacy over his comments.
According to AP, U.S. District Judge Rosemary M. Collyer wants Murtha to explain why he made this statement and any documents he has related to the incident.
From the AP: 'You're writing a very wide road for members of Congress to go to their home districts and say anything they choose about private persons and be able to do so without any liability. Are you sure you want to do that?'' Collyer said, adding later, ''How far can a congressman go and still be protected?"
------------------------------------------
If anyone want to criticize someone who has defamed the military, start with Murtha.
Dear Intern reading this for Mr. Bennett,
Please have Mr. Bennett listen to the original recording/tape of Mr. Limbaughs' show...then he can listen to Mr. Limbaughs' edit of his original show. Someone edited the script..WHY? No troll/ Rushbeliever has answered that question. Rush knew he blew it and developed an ARTISTS INTERPRETATION for his sheep.
And let Mr. Bennett know that I'll give him 5 to 1 that he notices the difference
Better yet, how about...
"Hey Bill!!! Wanna bet on it?"
"I was talking about a genuine phony soldier. And by the way, Jesse MacBeth's not the only one. How about this guy Scott Thomas who was writing fraudulent, phony things in The New Republic about atrocities he saw that never happened? How about Jack Murtha blanketly accepting the notion that Marines at Haditha engaged in wanton murder of innocent children and civilians?"---Rush Limbaugh, 9-29-07
If a group of 100 English speakers who knew nothing about Limbaugh or Murtha and had no interest in American politics were asked to evaluate his meaning after listening to this audio excerpt, 100 would say he effectively was calling Murtha a phony.
For what Murtha did to our soldiers he deserved far worse than being called a phoney.
Decorated Marine Murtha hasn't done anything ---except point out the utter insanity of what the combat-evading Bush has done and continues to do (thanks to moronic enablers like yourself): putting our kids killed into a pointless, unwinnable, unnecessary war.
Correction: putting = getting.
Dave, you make me proud to be from Chicago.
I'm a veteran of the war in Iraq from 2005 and I can not stand Murtha for his unfounded and politically motivated accusations against our marines and troops in general. He may be a vietnam veteran but he has lost his way. I'm a member of the American legion in town and I go to the VA and I have yet to see any vet who supports Murtha or who does not have out right contempt for him. He has become a political stooge. A tool to promote an agenda. I was in Mosul and Habaniyah. I'm not going to get into it more than that but I will say that although I've seen violence I have not seen any war crimes on our part. I've seen plenty on the part of the enemy.
BG,
You must not read much then because our soldiers have been convicted of war crimes!
---" I have yet to see any vet who supports Murtha"---
I'm a Vietnam vet. I support Murtha. I want our kids home. I don't think you're looking very hard. And I think you "see" what you want to see.
Murtha simply pointed out that in this futile, pointless, unnecessary war, our kids are being put into a tremendously difficult situation that many were not able to cope with.
Murtha put the blame on the leaders ---Bush, Cheney & Co. ---not on the soldiers. The incompetent leaders who sent those kids off to war. Right where the blame belongs.
Dave I've seen those on the fence between pro and con. Usually until they ask my opinion. What I agree on is that I want this war over. Iraq was the hardest thing that I've ever done. At the time that I was deployed we had three kids. I left my wife essentially a single mother. And I've seen things and done things that I think about every day, and probably will for the rest of my life. I'm trying to have this come out the right way and I guess the way to say it is that I want the war over but I support it none the less. I have'nt seen anyone at the legion, the vet center, or the VA with a different opinion. And as for Murtha. I here what you're saying but I don't believe thats what he's about. I think he's just a tool of the left and that he's lost his way. He's less of a vet and more of a polititian (sp?).
The soldiers are an instrument of the the United States government. The interests of America are primary, not the interests of the military or its soldiers if they conflict.
Second. It is not in the short or long term interest of America to allow American soldiers to commit illegal acts.
Third. Murtha wants to bring them out of harm's way, which is in the interests of the soldiers.
yeah yeah, issue beat to death, move on
I meant to say he was effectively calling Murtha a phony soldier.
After watching that episode this afternoon, I emailed Wolf Blitzer and said that if he was going to bring up the subject then he should have informed himself better in order to question the comments made by Bennett. After reading numerous transcripts etc., it is obvious Limbaugh and the caller were referring to soldiers who have a different opinion on how things are going in Iraq. Even as a Canadian, that wasn't hard to figure out and Blitzer should have been able to answer Bennett back with more than he did. I told him it was unfair to leave that impression with his audience without knowing enough to engage in the conversation more than he did. I also said that I didn't like the inferences that it was fine for Republicans to get all uppity over the Petraeus ad but it seems that the impression is that Democrats must have some other ulterior motive when discussing Limbaugh, other than "payback" because he's a popular radio host.
As an extra.....while listening to O'Reilly tonight, I want to know if the things he said about David Brock were enough to rise to slanderous? What he said was disgusting and both my husband and I could not get over the personal attacks he was making about Brock. Could he be sued over these comments? He certainly needs to be as each night he seems to be getting worse and worse.
Canadian, some of us will have wait for the (inevitable) thread tomorrow. I've never seen a thread here go much over 350 posts. Bets for over 400 on this?
This media conflict seems to be, possibly looking at a new chapter. It may blow over, I don't know. There's some angry military and ex military now. I'm ex military myself, but I've never held him in any positive regard. Just another in a long line of, to my mind, objectionable statements.
Thank you for your interest and post. Don't be a stranger. Love the Red Green Show.
What did he say that could be considered slanderous? He's an admitted liar and former conservative political hack.
The cowardly, lying O'Reilly is still afraid to have the ready and willing David Brock on his show.
No doubt O'Reilly's excuse has absolutely nothing to do with Brock & Media Matters having facts and transcripts on their side. O'Reilly has nothing going for him but lies, insults, a finger on the guest's mic button, and shouting.
Exactly, to OReilly everyone is a smear merchant. Yet is network has smeared Kerry, Max Cleland and other good decent Americans who have "dared" to question this President and this illegal war.
I Wonder if he is gambling again?
Jeter2,What,if you don't mind does your handle reference?I have been reading for a long time and would like to know.This is my first comment on this forum,so to let you know where I stand:I am a die hard liberal but not a screeching tree-hugger who wants to save the whales.I did not appreciate being lied to by Pres.Clinton or Pres.Bush and don't know if I will be able to vote for Hillary,she is too phony for my Montana hick taste.Thanks in advance,as I know you're a civil person.
You wonder how Blitzer sleeps at night. He can easily do his homework about Rush's comments (takes about 5 minutes on the Internet) and verify exactly what was said. Did Wolf think this would not come up?
He then sits there and "whores" for Bill Bennett so Bill can make his point. Does Wolf really think he is a newsman?
Bennett was repeating the same bovie excrement on his radio show this morning. Caught me flat footed, because I hadn't heard the full story. He deceptively played the edited version.
That was at 4:00 AM Mountain on 1100 AM out of Grand junction, CO. What a disgusting pompous LIAR.
For the Life of Me I can't figure out how Billy (The ULTIMATE HYPOCRITE) Bennett gets any airtime from CNN or anybody else for that matter. This guy is the Biggest Hypocrite in History and they treat him like his words the Gospel!!! Shouldn't this MAGGOT be Sodomizing a Slot Machine somewhere???
"All you have to do is listen to the show and it is perfectly clear, crystal clear, couldn't be clearer, who he's talking about."
Exactly...Limbaugh was referring to the previous caller, a war veteran who oppsoed the war.
What is perfectly clear is that Limbaugh is only slectively supportive of our troops in Iraq. How could Limbaugh ever reconcile all of his abusive comments about those who oppose the war and not include "liberal" war veterans who oppose the war in his denunciations?
Lemme guess. Mr Bennett never served either, did he?
You libs have overplayed your hands on this one. You got elected and now you are giving every incentive for people on the right to actually hate you.
Time line:
Libs fall in love with phony soldiers who lie about the War.
The DOJ goes after the phony soldiers.
ABC News reports about the Phony Soldiers.
Rush Limbaugh uses the phrase Phony Soldiers, and then talks about Jesse Macbeth.
Media Matters cuts the transcript to create a scandal.
MSNBC and MSM report MMFA as gospel.
Rush explains the context removing the WMD section that was irrelevant to the context.
MMFA claims Rush was being misleading.
Liberal idiots in Congress Condemn Rush.
2008 Dems lose in a landslide by overplaying their hand and energizing people who realized that MMFA are a bunch of hacks.
Moreover, Murtha is a disgrace to this Nation.
He called a Press Conference and accused soldiers of killing innocent civilians in cold blood, and now they found out nothing happened. That is why Murtha is subpoenaed for his statements.
Haven't some U.S. soldiers been found guilty of, or pled guilty to, killing innocent Iraq civilians? Yes or no?
Yes, there was one major incident and those men were sent to jail for life.
What does this have to do with Phony Soldiers who claim they kills scores of children and hung them from rafters in Masques?
They translated the false statements into Arabic and promoted the false statements to the Arab world.
That is treason and Jesse MacBeth should be tried in a court of law and sentenced to death.
"What does this have to do with Phony Soldiers..."
Uuuuuhhh, try to keep up with the conversation...we were talking about Murtha.
Get a life Irony. You stepping around the issue. Rush was talking about phony soldiers. And as a vet of this war. They offend me to know end. Also, why is that the media never covers the enemy's war crimes?
They do. I've heard numerous stories about stacks of headless bodies, bodies with holes drilled in their heads, etc.
Of course, when they report a car bombing, the conservatives complain because they "only cover the bad news".
You can't have it both ways.
You offend me to no end!
That comment is directed to BG.
Moreover, Murtha is a disgrace to this Nation.
1952 to join the Marine Corps and was awarded the American Spirit Honor Medal for displaying outstanding leadership qualities during training. Murtha rose through the ranks to become a drill instructor at Parris Island and was selected for Officer Candidate School at Quantico, Virginia. Murtha was then assigned to the Second Marine Division, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina.
In 1959, Murtha, then a captain, took command of the 34th Special Infantry Company, Marine Corps Reserves, in Johnstown. He remained in the Reserves after his discharge from active duty until he volunteered for service in the Vietnam War, serving from 1966 to 1967, serving as a battalion staff officer (S-2 Intelligence Section), receiving the Bronze Star with Valor device, two Purple Hearts and the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry.
Cop, you may not like John Murtha and you may disagree with his opinions but HE put HIS LIFE on the line to serve this country.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO QUESTION HIS SERVICE NOR HIS DEDICATION TO HIS COUNTRY!
Jeez, what a slacker that Murtha is... a genuine "phony soldier".
Pearlene, these right wingers would hate Jesus Christ himself if Christ said we should get out of Iraq. These people just love to hate...and in particular, anything liberal.
Pearl
I could not agree with you more, Congressman Murtha is an American Hero and actually fought for our country, unlike chicken hawks like Rush Limbaugh and OReilly.
Pearlene, that was beautifully written
Thank you again.
I have every right to question him. We don't live in a Stalinist country.
You want to shut people up because you cannot defend his statements accusing servicemen of atrocities when there were none.
Murtha is a National disgrace.
You can spew your hate all you want, but your intellegence proves to be worth nothing with talk like that.
"...now you are giving every incentive for people on the right to actually hate you."
Now? Incentive? You guys have always hated us intensely. I didn't know what a bad person I was - hell. I didn't even know I was a liberal - until I listened to Rush Limbaugh.
We hated your policies that are harmful to the Country.
But, you make false claims on the floor of the Senate with 11% approval, we will destroy you in 2008.
"...we will destroy you in 2008."
Ooooh, so macho... You are a joke and you don't even know it. Peace...
Mark my words, the landslide is inevitable.
Sure...and so is the rapture.
Finally you say something true. Most likely the Dems will pick up 5 to 8 seats in the Senate and 15 to 25 in the house. AND the White House. A landslide like you say. The GOP is circling the porceline bowl
I wonder if Corpulentdescent pounded his shoe on the keyboard when he said "Vee vill Krrrrrush you!"
But, you make false claims on the floor of the Senate with 11% approval, we will destroy you in 2008.
You might want to wait a little longer before making your Madame Cleo predictions:
GOP Is Losing GripOn Core Business Vote
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119127620102645595.html?mod=rss_whats_news_us
In your dreams the GOP will take another bloodbath in 08 Ya got a lot of nerve talking about policies that have hurt the country. Bush, the catastrophe that walks like a man is from YOUR party not ours
Which of Bush's policies?
"Rush Limbaugh uses the phrase Phony Soldiers, and then talks about Jesse Macbeth."
This addition of MacBeth happened much later on and the phony soldiers were mentionned in direct reference to the previous caller who disagreed with the stay in Iraq where no military solution is possible.
"Media Matters cuts the transcript to create a scandal."
Limbaugh created the scandal himself after complaining about those who have a dissident view from his own. Also it seems hypocritical that republicans feel they have the cornerstone on complaining against others re the Petraeus ad, but feel that no one can complain about "one of their own". Wasn't it also Rush who called Senator Hagel "Senator Betray Us" after a caller and himself thought that was a great new name for him?
As for your comments about Murtha.....seems most republicans elected to office like to complain about those who served while not putting on the uniform themselves. I bet that Murtha is more in tune and in touch with those in the inside of the military than most republicans. I wouldn't bet that Murtha made up those comments without being told by insiders what really went on. Just look at how your State Department s now asking Blackwater to investigate itself. They seem to find they did nothing wrong, so does that mean investigation over and everything is fine? Those of us in the rest of the world dont' hold much stock in those the Bush administration hand picks to investigate its own actions. When the investigators are too close to those being investigated results and findings will unfortunately always be looked at skeptically as to the veracity of the reports.
Wasn't it also Rush who called Senator Hagel "Senator Betray Us" after a caller and himself thought that was a great new name for him?
There is a HUGE difference between identifying a senator who appears to be betraying his own party vs. calling a four-star general, who was bound by law to appear and testify before Congress, a traitor to his own country because MoveOn didn't like what he was going to say.
Apples to meatballs, my friend.
General Petraeus was made into a political football by Bush's actions. It should be clear from all this discussion that persons who serve honorably in the military have differing political views. As such, when we ourselves differ with those views, we all tend to engage all the tools of political mud wrestling, among them, character assassination. It would be artificial of us to refrain from these tactics when discussing our disagreements, I suppose, so we should all just get over it.
If military personell choose to engage in the "war of words", they--of all people--should be able to withstand a little bit of blood and guts, no? The old aphorism "Sticks & stones... " comes to mind.
"I wouldn't bet that Murtha made up those comments without being told by insiders what really went on."
I've always assumed that Murtha had inside info about the goings on in Iraq. For many years Murtha has been close to military brass and he's remarked that what he was being told by his friends in the military who felt they could not speak publicly about Iraq was quite different from the White House spin. I can say this: not once have I ever detected that Murtha's outrage at the Bush administration about Iraq was anything less than genuine.
Murtha was apparently repeating what military people had told him about the Haditha case. Even though most of the soldiers have been found not guilty of criminal behavior doesn't mean it didn't happen. The primary defendant spoke on 60 minutes, and he basically confirmed the facts. They did kill those civilians. The only question is whether or not their actions constitute a crime. In the fog and confusion of war, that's an open question. I wouldn't want to be the one making that decision.
He called a press conference and trashed them. End of story.
And there you have it, folks -- the Black/White analysis of the right-wing mind has spoken.
These two facts are all you need to know to form an intelligent opinion of this complex situation:
Jack Murtha 1) called a press conference
and 2) trashed them.
End of story, apparently.
Were the facts reported grounded in truth? Doesn't matter, apparently.
Was Murtha blaming the soldiers, or was he blaming the leaders who put the soldiers in an insane situation for no good reason? Doesn't matter.
Did the incident in question actually happen? Doesn't matter.
Does Murtha have military experience, combat experience that would give him some valuable insight into what those soldiers faced? Doesn't matter.
Oh, there is one more fact that DOES matter:
Murtha is a Democrat. Not a liberal, mind you, just a Democrat. That's all you need to know to recognize that he 'hates the troops". Right?
Timeline the Oxymoron opines troops that disagree with war are phony.
LEGIONS of the Limborg hivemind RUSH in to repeat what Limbaugh TOLD them to think logic, facts and reality unable to penetrate their thick skulls.
Rightwing morons CLAIM the left falls in love with someguy no lefty I know has ever heard of.
Wingnuts avoid facts and reality more than vampires avoid sunlight
I agree 100% I hate to say this but the liberals are starting to look like a bunch of clowns. No wonder the approval rating is 11%. What a joke and Harry Reid should find a job.
Does anyone think they have more important things to work on these days?
"You got elected and now you are giving every incentive for people on the right to actually hate you."
Right-wingers already hate. And where no incentive to hate "libs" exists, they'll simply fabricate something. That's their nature, that's what they're good at.
Unfortunately for you however, most people are not as stupid as you project.
In addition, polling data shows that most Americans now support a plan like Murtha's for getting out of Iraq.
Your kind is out-of-step and fading rightfully to society's fringes faster than you can say "copius".
Rush Limbaugh has been preaching absolute hatred for Democrats since Clinton vs. Bush. The only "incentive" he needs is his $30,000,000 paycheck.
This is selective outrage at its finest.
Veterans who oppose the Iraq war (who Rush was clearly NOT talking about), are to be honored, defended, and applauded. (NOTE: I happen to believe ALL our troops deserve that treatment.)
Yet General Patraeus, just a short time ago, was villified, insulted, and called a tool and a traitor. You guys seem very picky to whom you give your accolades to.
And since ABC had already run a story on 'phony soldiers', and Rush had already done a morning update a day earlier on Jesse MacBeth, anyone knowing those facts could only draw the conclusion that MacBeth and others who lied about their service and attrocities they witnessed where the ones Rush was commenting on. The caller commented "what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media.", CLEARLY referring to those that lie about their service and performing/witnessing attrocities that the anti-war crowd just loves to prop up for their own purpose. The soldiers that "come up out of the blue" are the very ones, like MacBeth, that the caller injected into the conversation, and Rush then labled as "phony soldiers".
And the dreaded edited part of the transcript was irrelevant to the conversation, yet it is disingenuously portrayed as something of a cover-up. Rush did post all of the CONTEXTUAL transcript, which matters very little since MMFA doesn't have any use for context anyway.
But MMFA and this crowd won't let facts like that get in the way of a good smear, so we'll have to listen to about another week of lies about what was actually said repeated over and over again like:
On his radio show, Rush Limbaugh defended his statement characterizing service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq as "phony soldiers" and expanded the group of "phony soldiers" to include Vietnam veteran Rep. John P. Murtha.
So now everytime that MMFA attempts to refute an arguement, whoever-it-is will be defending the "statement characterizing service members who advocate US withdrawal from Iraq as 'phony soldiers'" when MMFA's own characterization is the real lie.
It's a shame that Rush didn't separate Murtha further from the word "phony" because I don't think that's what he was getting at. I'm sure that Rush would honor Murtha's service as well. Those that choose to look at actions before words would see years and years worth of examples of Rush's honoring of and appreciation toward the troops; ALL troops. If you look at what all three people in those comments have in common, you'll see that they all were lying about attrocities committed by US troops in Iraq that they either never witnessed, or never happened. Why Murtha was so quick to condemn our Marines is beyond me, and yet because he is a darling of the anti-war crowd he still will not apologize even though many, if not most, of the charges have been dropped, and Marines outright exonerated. That is now the hole he can't crawl out of.
So I guess I'll watch this "phony outrage" about a "phony" story about a "phony soldier" repeat itself over and over, ad nauseum, until the left and the media have milked it for all it's worth, and then KO will be huffing about it for an additional week!
Such is the way in this era of gotcha politics. It's sad really.
CDubya,
Your comments are funny coming from a phony like you!
Skeptical,
What kind of phony would I be in your eyes? Phony liberal? Phony conservative? Phony citizen? Phony human being?
Do tell.
Harry Reid criticizing Rush Limbaugh about being "unpatriotic" for using the "phony soldiers" statement is a JOKE!! Here is a guy who has said multiple times that we have lost the war which is a slap in the face for the many soldiers who are fighting in the Mid-East. He has lost any and all credibility to criticize ANYONE for being "unpatriotic". He is a horrible spokesman for ANY political party (unless it is the Communist party) and should be voted out of office in the next election.
Hey JGIL,
Maybe you need to vote your congressman out of office instead for allowing this "occupation" to continue! The actual war was over long ago in case you didn't notice!
YOU GUYS REALLY ARE JUST BULLIES. YOU EVEN WANT TO TELL YOUR OPPOSITION WHO TO ELECT TO LEADERSHIP. TOO MUCH!
Geez, we're up to the former drug czar and gambling addict Bill Bennett.
Soon, BushieCo will dig up Ronald Reagan to make a statement on Rush's behalf.
A quote from Hillary Clinton:
""institutions that I helped to start and support like Media Matters and Center for American Progress."
OOPS! Media Matters was started by Hillary Clinton! Now how are you defenders of this lying, smearing website ever going to defend that?
Audio: http://newsbusters.org/static/2007/10/2007-10-01HillaryMediaMatters.mp3
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbzC6-N9mwM
You wouldn't have to listen to Hillary, you only need to see their intentional misinformation.
How can mediamatters continually claim that they are not affiliated with any particular candidate or organization when they were STARTED BY HILLARY CLINTON? I knew Obama was getting a raw deal here and this explains it completely. This is so awful. I'd love for someone here to explain this.
Computer,
Do ever have anything to say reagrding the actual topic at hand or do you always troll?
This is the same Bill Bennett who proposed to "abort" all of the unborn black babies to reduce crime in America. He said that he was taken out of context. These far right-wing "nut cases" have no credibility. If you listen to Limbaugh, O'reilly, Hannity, Savage, Coulter and others of that ilk, its no wonder that America is hated all over the world.
Billbow
By the way, I'm a father of a "phony soldier" who has served two tours of duty in Iraq and will possibly have to return for a third tour. He has been shot at hundreds of times in Iraq, almost blown up a few times, and has been against the war from the start -- even though he honors his comittment to serve. He is not the only "phony" soldier in his division, 80% of them are. What I would like to see happen is all of the war mongers who have children of military age; to encourage them to sign up to go to Iraq in my son's place. Let's see how long it takes for their sons/daughters to become "phony soldiers."
Billbow
Billbow,
I'd like to thank your son for his commitment and service.
Tell it like it is!!!!