On Fox & Friends, Tyrrell falsely asserted Limbaugh had apologized for "phony soldiers" remark
On the October 4 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends, during a discussion of Rush Limbaugh's September 26 "phony soldiers" comments and MoveOn.org's September 10 New York Times advertisement headlined "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" American Spectator founder and Editor-in-Chief R. Emmett Tyrrell Jr. asserted, "It's absurd to compare a carefully written ad by MoveOn that claims -- accuses a general in the field of treason -- to compare that with a flip remark by Rush Limbaugh during a three-hour discourse, which he's already apologized for in the event that he offended anyone." In fact, while Limbaugh apologized "to all of the members of the United States military, both in uniform and out, active duty and retired, for Media Matters for America," he has not apologized for characterizing service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq as "phony soldiers."
As Media Matters documented, during the October 1 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Limbaugh stated:
LIMBAUGH: But since you will never get an apology from [Rep.] Jack Murtha [D-PA] for mischaracterizing you as murderers; since you'll never get an apology from [Sen.] John Kerry [D-MA]; since you won't get an apology from Media Matters for America or anybody who works there -- to all of you in the U.S. Military -- I want to apologize to you for them for the, again, firestorm over something that did not happen regarding your valor and your commitment to freedom and democracy last week on this program. I really regret that it happened, and I apologize to you on their behalf since they won't.
From the October 4 edition of Fox News' Fox & Friends:
DOOCY: Welcome back. Rush Limbaugh's comments continue to spark outrage from the left. Democrats are comparing the incident to MoveOn.org's "General Betray Us" ad. Is this a smear campaign against the controversial talk-show host?
CARLSON: Emmett Tyrrell is author of The Clinton Crack-Up, and he joins us today from D.C. Good morning to you.
TYRRELL: Nice to be with you, Gretchen.
CARLSON: So, what do you make of this whole situation? It's been going on now for a couple of weeks, and it seems to be orchestrated.
TYRRELL: Well, on one side, it's absurd. It's absurd to compare a carefully written ad by MoveOn that claims -- accuses a general in the field of treason -- to compare that with a flip remark by Rush Limbaugh during a three-hour discourse, which he's already apologized for in the event that he offended anyone.
What's really alarming about it is that it shows a pattern here of the new Democratic Party threatening the free speech of those who disagree with them. They had better get used to it. In a democracy, you have disagreement. And we have a First Amendment. And that First Amendment is inviolate.
DOOCY: Well, I tell you what, this week it's Rush, last week it was Bill O'Reilly. Both of them say they were taken out of context. And three weeks ago, it was General [David] Petraeus.
TYRRELL: Well, at least it indicates, for a change, some of these new Democrats are actually listening to people that disagree with them. The problem is they're offended by it. They ought to join them in rational discourse, rather than trying to run them out of town.
CARLSON: You know what's interesting, though, Emmett, is that -- do you find it interesting, I should ask -- that no Republican has crossed over the line to condemn Rush's comments, that I've seen, but there were some Democrats who did cross over the line to condemn MoveOn.org's ad against General Petraeus.
TYRRELL: Well, because they recognize that this is an entirely different matter. This is -- I can't think of any time in American history that Americans -- Americans claim -- accused a general in the field of treason, except perhaps the Civil War, when the North and the South thought all of the generals -- the others -- opposite side of the general was guilty of treason. We're all together in this today, and I wish the Democrats would understand that.
DOOCY: R. Emmett Tyrrell Jr., author of The Clinton Crack-Up. Sir, thanks for joining us today from Washington.
TYRRELL: Nice to be with you.
"They ought to join them in rational discourse..."
Yea, right... When was the last time anyone with an opposing virew could discuss anything rationally with either Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly? Billo will cut off your microphone and Limbaugh refuses to believe that a real Republican or a real soldier would even disagree with him. The common denominator is that with these two guys it's all about them and their overblown egos. You can't have a rational discussion with someone like that.
And when was the last time one of the F&F talking heads corrected a conservative when he/she blatantly speaks inaccurately? Rush has NOT apologized nor does it look like he plans to. But leave it to Douchey and crew to let it go unchallenged. These people are right-wing shills.
And I would like to apologize on behalf of Hitler, Franco, and Mussolini for calling the fine folks at Fox News a fascist propaganda machine. Oh wait, those guys are dead? So is Fox in the long run...People will only tolerate being urinated on and told it's Trickle Down Economics for so long! I can't wait to be a pall bearer at the neo-conservative funeral!
"Well, at least it indicates, for a change, some of these new Democrats are actually listening to people that disagree with them. The problem is they're offended by it. They ought to join them in rational discourse, rather than trying to run them out of town."
Yeah, just like Republicans did with MoveOn.org.
SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!
Does any thinking person need to have the absolute insincerity of this interview, interviewer, and interviewed?
Interviewers set the tone by make an assertion a question to be agreed with: "Democrats are comparing the incident to MoveOn.org's "General Betray Us" ad. Is this a smear campaign against the controversial talk-show host?"
Interviewed is a author of "Clinton Cracked-Up" and an editor from the American Spectator with a obvious obsession if not hate for the Clintons.
Interview? Where is the otherside of the argument??? Nowhere, of cource!
Fox Propaganda for the RNC, wholely un-American!!
Happy Thoughts;
Dan Grady
Idiot repubs can't get past the MoveOn ad's headline.
The text spoke the truth, and the fake outrage over the headline is overshadowing that fact.
Limbaugh sure has a lot of defenders. They seem to be everywhere.
Yeah, Repubs are pissed that Democrats are using one of ther favorite tools. Too darn bad.
"Limbaugh sure has a lot of defenders. They seem to be everywhere."
Just the usual suspects...and no one of much importance. Wasn't Limbaugh griping yesterday because no big-time Republicans had come to his defense?
I'm still awaiting proof.....any proof that Democrats, liberals, or progressives are or even have tried to permanantly shut down or silence anyone, anywhere, at any time.....
I can find plenty in the opposite however:
Joe McCarthy silencing those that disagreed with him by putting them in front of the commitee
Billo when he shouted down and overtly threatened bodily harm to Jeremy Glick's kid
I wonder how many callers to (name your right-wing chatterbox) never had the chance to get through to speak
How about all those free speech zones that are blocks away from Bush when he is out speaking
My local paper..... I responded to a Pro-Bush/War opinion and was quite respectful in my response but used facts, as it pertains to the occupation of Iraq, this was 3 weeks ago and it still hasn't been printed
Cindy Sheehan getting arrested for wearing an anti-Bush t-shirt at the capital
I have no doubt the list is extensive....but it is the conservative right-wing base that shouts the loudest about losing their rights that are the ones doing the most supression and taking away the right of free speech
You left out their most famous silencing. The Dixie Chicks, permanantly banned from country radio.
I asked about the Dixie Chicks the other day - somebody said they were still making music. I know in Houston they take a poll every once in awhile - listeners still don;t want to hear them so they don;t play them. I've not heard it - someone confirmed that they do play them on country radio in Austin.
Radio is market driven - not politically driven. If you don;t want to listen - change the station.
Personally, I never listen to country radio though I do like Waylon and Willie and even Charlie Daniels (though I will never see him in person cause he puts politics in all his shows). I just buy the CD's so I can avoid the BS.
The Dixie Chicks were NOT banned, WC, because of any POLL. They were banned (censored) by the the broadcasting mega-behemoth Clearchannel corporation because they dared to publicly criticize Dubya'.
It wasn't the public that no longer wanted to hear them, because they have had tremendous commercial & artistic success since their corporate banishment. Its simply that a right wing, Bush-promoting corporation has decided that the public should not be ALLOWED to listen to artists that dare to criticize the current war-mongering, free-expression-stifling, liberty-depleting, neocon administration.
By the way, Clearchannel also banned John Lennon's hauntingly beautiful "Imagine"... as well as other such progressive music... for a time after 9/11.
It was too damned radical for them, & they felt that the American public needed to be protected from such songs.
RE:"I'm still awaiting proof.....any proof that Democrats, liberals, or progressives are or even have tried to permanantly shut down or silence anyone, anywhere, at any time....."
GQ, Gentlemen's Quarterly?
MMFA has something in common with TYRRELL - Nieither actually listened to what was said
Move on
Nobody's stopping you from moveing on. You probably should since you don't seem to be able to follow an article.
Oww Snoop - you still licking your wounds from the last thread. I'm sorry - I was just playing with you.
Care to comment on the description by Rush that sounded like a suicide bomber or no?
Funny, I don't recalling getting thrashed. I seem to remember locking on with my jaws as you thrashed about wildly. Funny how perceptions change.... =)
Rush claims he didn't say or mean to say what some folks claim they thought he said. (But he muffed his explanation, repeatedly)
That's not an apology, it's a denial.
Well, since the Regurgicons think it's unfair to "parse" language, where in the MoveOn.org ad was Petraeus accused of treason? Remember, we're talking about literal meanings here, and treason has a specific meaning. Where in the headline is Petraeus accused of giving aid and comfort to the enemy? Betrayal can take many forms, not all of which rise to the level of treason.
In essence, Rush and his dottobot defenders are kvetching about something they've been doing to Democrats for years. Welcome to the world you created, Rush.
Rush Limbaugh has made millions setting up strawman arguments and misrepresenting statements made by Democrats, liberals and "the Left" in general. Therefore, despite the fact that I don't think Rush meant what it sounded like he said, it's difficult to have sympathy for him when he gets it back from the very sources he has been skewering for twenty years. This quote from another blog summed it up well for me:
Rush Limbaugh has been fabulously successful in his chosen field. But he has neither practiced civility nor shown respect for truth nor for the sensibilities of those it suited his purposes to mock, besmirch and revile. If he feels uncharitably treated, I suggest he look within for both the cause and the cure.
Perfect assessment!
DO you have a link to that editorial?
http://www.ericblackink.com/2007/10/01/is-it-possible-to-smear-rush-limbaugh/#more-113
Great quote...
I am not so convinced that Limbaugh didn't actually mean what his commnents suggested. Limbaugh thinks he is very clever and he often says things which are subject to different offensive meanings. Many of his comments have a built-in deniability with respect to their meaning. I would have to give him credit for doing this intentionally.
If you read Limbaugh's remarks to the caller, "Mike from Chicago", just prior to his "phony soldiers' comment you will see that Limbaugh made clear to the caller that he did not believe the caller was either ex-military or a Republican, as the caller professed, simply because the caller's views didn't agree with his.
Therefore, in the context of what had immediately transpired, the phrase "phony soldiers" struck me as anyone professing to be a soldier but who disagreed with Limbaugh's views on the war could not be a "real" soldier, in Limbaugh's view.
Exactly. The context immediately surrounding the comment is not very helpful to Rush. I think that's one reason he edited out the subsequent comments when mounting his defense. To me, it's obvious that caller #2 is talking about soldiers who don't just suck it up and keep quiet. By seeming to agree with him, Rush stepped on his winky.
Let me just add that IMO Limbaugh's "phony soldiers" comment was insulting to soldiers who disagree with the war, regardless whether Limbaugh's comments were intended to be taken literally or figuratively.
I think Limbaugh meant his comment LITERALLY...that anyone who claimed to be a soldier who disagreed with the war had to be lying about his service. Limbaugh virtually said that it is incompatible to be either either a soldier or a Republican and to disagree with Limbaugh's views on the war. (BTW, how's THAT for an ego?)
"If you read Limbaugh's remarks to the caller, "Mike from Chicago", just prior to his "phony soldiers' comment you will see that Limbaugh made clear to the caller that he did not believe the caller was either ex-military or a Republican, as the caller professed, simply because the caller's views didn't agree with his"
No, Limbaugh simply said that the caller couldn't be a Republican. He never doubted his military service. He never called him a "phony soldier." I disagree with Limbaugh's claim that you can't oppose the war and be a Republican, but he certainly never doubted the caller's military service.
Limbaugh never doubted the caller's military service? Wrong, Rino...
CALLER: I used to be military, okay, and I am a Republican.
RUSH: Yeah.
CALLER: And I do listen to you, but --
RUSH: Right, I know. And I, by the way, used to walk on the moon.
Or maybe Rush was just high on drugs at the time and actually believes he used to walk on the moon.
Rush asserted: "And I, by the way, used to walk on the moon."
This is absolute proof that Rush Limbaugh is a damned liar. I watched every moon shot since 1969, and Limbaugh was never on any of those rockets. Furthermore, I checked the records, not only did he NOT walk on the moon, he was NEVER an astronaut!!! What a liar! :-)
I don't think they even make space suits that big.
Uuuh, Rick... I think maybe you're taking Rush's remarks out of context. ;>)
Well! If I am, then perhaps he'll spend days trying to show where I am wrong. Until then, I stand by my post. :-)
You take enough oxy contin, Therick, & YOU'LL think you walked on the moon too.
"And I do listen to you, but"
That's when Rush made his comment about going to the moon. He sounded like he doubted that the guy was a Republican and that he listened to his show. Nowhere does he state that the man never served in the military.
The guy made both comments at the same time Rush made no distinction you believe that ONLY because you want to. No other reason.
Great comments Bruce, totally agree.
I too have no sympathy for these talking heads who insult and offend for umpteen hours a week on TV or the radio......they spew out invective constantly to jazz up their listeners and hold on to their loyalists, and if they happen to cross a line and it gets them into hot water, they instantly cry foul and turn into the world's most beatup victim - by further slurring and demonizing them back.
It's an endless cycle, one which unless you have a scorecard or some axe to grind either way, becomes boring as hell, pretty fast.
Pretty much the case Tommy.
My guess is the "apology" they are referring to is when Rush apologized to the soldiers for MMFA and the democrats, because in his words, "they'll never do it". One of his typical straw man apologies.
I'm not entirely sure that you or MMFA is absolutely right on that point. We don't know for sure if Tyrrell follows this stuff all that close. Probably in the many hours of spin on Fox someone has "implied" that Rush had apologized.
MM researchers.... How many times has anyone claimed that Rush apologized, or is this the first?
It's the first time it's been uttered. My guess is that, since it was just an appearance on Fox & Friends, Tyrrell saw it as an opportunity to “make stuff up.”
Something else just came to mind...these people that are so aghast at how MMFA "parsed" Rush's words are the same ones who have insisted for years that Al Gore really said "I invented the internet".
Isn't this fun?
The rank hypocrisy of wingnuts like Terrell is amazing. Here he is crying about the 1st amendment.
I'm sure last week he cheered on the MoveOn censure. Another conservative freak-job.
For a minute there I was worried that Rush might have actually apologized for the legitimate use of the term "phony soldiers".
FROM ABC NEWS -
It was always more than one phony fake soldier - Rush was so right!
- billiybobjones7678 , this had been explained to you already- the fact that ABC did a report about "phony soldiers" doesn't change Rush's remarks.
The existence of phony soldiers is not the issue, it's Rush's claim that many of them have been held up as heroes by the MSM, and his statement that any real military who disagree with the current administration's policies are "phony soldiers.
Until you get that figured out, you can't really even start the argument you're attempting.
In fact, as boring as the Dittoheads are becoming(OK, they're slightly entertaining) by repeatedly showing that they can't quite grasp this item,I think we're going to have to establish a prerequisite for continuing the defense of the Oxymoron;
Since I, and several other posters, have been asking for examples of the "lionizing" of MacBeth,or the mass exposure of these other "phony soldiers" who supposedly have been the darlings of the left, with no responses that I know of so far, I think this makes sense.
If Rush was referring to several of these people, examples of them will help prove their existence, and give you a foundation to start on.It won't change Rush's comments, nor win the argument, it will just get you started.
Any further apologies and explanations saying Rush was referring to a group of phony soldiers highly publicized by the mainstream media must be prefaced with some evidence that they are non-fictional.
Thank you.
7 hours later-( actually several days since the request has been made), and no phony soldier heroes. I accept your surrender dittobots.
ADDENDUM
OK, I'll help you - here is my acceptance of the dittobot surrender. Since some of you continue to whine, and even ask for us to give up, I'm going to make an incredible deal-
In the spirit of the Special Olympics,and second chances, I'm suspending terms of surrender until Sunday, October 7, 2007, 12:00 midnight EST.(that's 9pm West Coast, don't bother with the calculators.
More than 48 hours to stay alive.Until you meet the terms to initiate your argument , no post will be entertained as anything but horsesh*t.
Keep in mind. providing examples of phony soldiers lionized by the mainstream media does not win anything, it only qualifies you to begin the contest.
On your marks, get set, GO DITTOBOTS!
...his statement that any real military who disagree with the current administration's policies are "phony soldiers.
I looked and looked, but I just cannot find any place where Rush actually made this statement.
Do you have any specific quote with those exact words?
great new strategy. democratic senators are much more pro military than that scoundrel Rush. And patriotic yeah. And if you don't believe it we'll just stay in Iraq 4 more years. yeah, that will work. I'm not sure who this will benefit, or who will buy it.
Step one step back and you'll see why nobody out there is budging in their opinions. Petraeus's report is not from someone who's been fighting this all along. He wasn't even firstt choice. So this general goes there, spends what? four, five months there? and comes back an expert. And Petraeus has exaggerated and made things look rosy before.
William Westmoreland, when he lied and lied and lied and lied to the American people, had at least been in charge for years.
But the Bush Administration said you should BELIEVE him because he's a GENERAL! And get all huffy when we don't.
Nobody who remembers the name Westmoreland is going to buy this. Especially not, unlike Vietnam, we have dozens of generals, many with far more experience than Petraeus saying the opposite of what he's saying.
Likewise, is there anyone who actually believes that Rush Limbaugh respects the people on the other side of the fence? Anybody? Is there anybody who believes that Rush defers to a person's military service? The only people defending Rush agree with his estimation of antiwar Iraq vets. And all this parsing is stupid: the people at some distance from this know enough about Rush in general to know that he's not nice, not balanced and judicious, not bipartisan--nobody, not those who like him or who hate him. He's not fooling anybody who doesn't desperately want to be fooled.
It's sad to see a filthy chickenhawk...
like Limbaugh have control of the microphone. The man is a congenital liar: that's proven beyond any doubt.
And such a lily-livered coward. Never able to take responsibility for his own words. (Conservatism is rapidly becoming synonymous with bald-faced liars and dirtbags of the very lowest character.)
Fungus, et all,
How is it out there in that alternate universe? Are you folks having any fun?
First off, Limbaugh apologized, BUT NOT FOR HIMSELF. He apologized for your buds in the congress and in the media who have been poor-mouthing the troops for the last four years. (Why he felt obliged to do this, I have no idea, given his sterling record in supporting the troops all these years).
You say he’s a “lily-livered coward”. I don’t see Harry Reid taking him up on a face to face meeting on AM radio. Who’s the coward here?
The dirt bags are on your side of the political divide: Murtha and Kerry lying about how our troops have conducted themselves in Iraq and Afghanistan (just an extension of the lies he told about Viet Nam in Kerry’s case); Reid, Pelosi, and other Democrats in the congress undercutting the mission and the troops at every opportunity.
These people have not delivered on your “mandate” to bring the troops home and end the Iraq war, and none of your top three presidential candidates will commit to bringing them home before 2013 should any of them win the White House. Looks like Hillary, at least, is faking a dive to the center knowing that, should she win your nomination, she’ll eventually have to face the general public and not just the kooks from MoveOn, Answer Coalition, etc.
Now, a lot more people in the country are on to Media Matters thanks to the recent lies they’ve tried in an attempt to marginalize O’Rielly and Limbaugh.
Your idiot leaders just keep stepping into it. What’s going to be your next move? Can’t wait.Hiya, Ol' Jarhead, I'm having fun, and this alternate universe is called Earth.
You are right, the Dems have been pretty weak on getting out of Iraq, but remember this; Just as the GOP has to tone down the crazy Jesus talk and act more reasonable than they are to get the smarter half of the average voters, the Dems have to dumb a few things down to get the smarter ones.
You also might keep in mind that many people here aren't Democrats, they might just vote that way to keep the lesser of the two parties out of power.
And everybody knows that Rush didn't apologize for his stoopidity, he ain't man enough.
He tried to fool the military people whose intelligence he constantly insults by apologizing for MMFA. I personally have more faith in our troops than he does, as I think most of them will eventually catch on that his long career of lip service is not in their interests, but his.
BTW, when I say I have faith in the intelligence of our troops, I mean it. I cut you some slack because you sound old and scared.
You are such a moron. I cant believe how ignorant you are. We are dirtbags? YOU are without a single functioning braincell. That reality based universe you are talking about is called the REALITY based universe. It isnt our fault you are far too stupid to recognize that.
It would seem that Mr. Tyrrell needs to get a hearing aid. Maybe he heard an edited tape of this draft dodger.
Allen Stepro USMC Ret
In respone to your comment " We are dirtbags?" please show us where "Solon" appears unless you are one of the named individuals or a member of congress posting under "Solon" in the following" The dirt bags are on your side of the political divide: Murtha and Kerry lying about how our troops have conducted themselves in Iraq and Afghanistan (just an extension of the lies he told about Viet Nam in Kerry’s case); Reid, Pelosi, and other Democrats in the congress "I agree you are a dirtbag-but you said it not the old marine