So where is Sean Hannity's flag lapel pin?
SUMMARY: Discussing an interview
in which Sen. Barack Obama said he had stopped wearing a flag pin on his lapel during the lead-up to
the Iraq war, Sean Hannity said on his radio show:
"[W]hy do we wear pins?
Because our country was under attack." He continued: "And to politicize once again the
war to this extent. Well,
who cares about the war? Are you proud of your country?" Yet while criticizing Obama
for not wearing a flag
pin, Hannity himself has not worn an American flag lapel pin on a number of
recent occasions.
Discussing a recent interview with a reporter in Iowa in which Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) said that he had stopped wearing an American flag pin on his lapel during the lead-up to the Iraq war, Fox News host Sean Hannity said on the October 4 broadcast of his radio show: "[W]hy do we wear pins? Because our country was under attack." He continued: "And to politicize once again the war to this extent. Well, who cares about the war? Are you proud of your country? Do you believe in America? Do you believe that America has been, continues to be the greatest force for good in this world?" Hannity later stated: "I think it's, you know, the greatest gift God gave us and continues to be a force for good." Yet while criticizing Obama for not wearing a flag pin, Hannity himself has not worn an American flag lapel pin on a number of recent occasions.
Hannity's quote, "[W]hy do we wear pins? Because our country was under attack," was included in a number of reports on Obama's decision not to wear a flag pin -- including in the October 4 edition of ABC's World News with Charles Gibson and the October 5 edition of ABC's Good Morning America.
Below are examples of Hannity not wearing an American flag lapel pin on Fox News' Hannity & Colmes:
October 4:
October 3:
October 2:
October 1:
September 28:
September 26:
September 25:
Moreover, Hannity is not wearing a flag pin on the cover of his book Deliver Us From Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism, and Liberalism (HarperCollins, 2005):
Hannity has also conducted interviews with Republican presidential candidates Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, and Fred Thompson in which the candidates were not wearing flag pins.
From the June 5 edition of Hannity & Colmes:
From the August 13 edition of Hannity & Colmes:
From the June 10 edition of Fox News' Hannity's America:
From the October 4 edition of ABC Radio Networks' The Sean Hannity Show:
HANNITY: Anyway, so get this story [since updated to include Hannity's comments], reported by ABC News:
A reporter for the ABC affiliate in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, noticed that something was missing from Barack Obama's lapel. He says: "You don't have the American flag pin on it. Is that a fashion statement?" the reporter asked at the end of a brief interview with Obama. "Those have, you know, basically been on politicians since September 12, 2001."
The standard political reply to that question might well have been, "My patriotism speaks for itself." But Obama didn't say that.
The piece goes on:
Instead, the senator answered the question at length, explaining that he no longer wears such a pin at least in part because of the Iraq war. He said, quote, "You know, the truth is, is that right after 9-11, I had a pin. Shortly after 9-11, particularly because as we were talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security, I decided I won't wear that pin on my chest.
"Instead," he said, "I'm going to tell the American people what I believe will make this country great, and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism."
The Obama campaign declined to expand on the statement. His comments speak for itself.
Now, I've got to tell you -- I mean, why do we wear pins? Because our country was under attack. And to politicize once again the war to this extent. Well, who cares about the war? Are you proud of your country? Do you believe in America? Do you believe that America has been, continues to be the greatest force for good in this world? I think the answer, if you ask that question of any, you know, liberal today, I think they doubt that America is a force for good in the world, that America has been, continues to be a force for good in the world. And I think it's, you know, the greatest gift God gave us and continues to be a force for good.
All those flagless lapels! Oh, the unpatrioticness! Okay, I'm taking wagers...which Senator will be the first to propose a non-binding resolution that all Americans should wear flag lapel pins?
and jim Angle, a few minutes ago , went on a five minute diatribe anout Barack Obama not wearing a flag pin, when he himself, while waring a nice suit, had not adorned himself with the supposed patriotic symblol. these guys are hypocrates.
THOSE PICTURES ARE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT AND ARE BEING USED BY A SOROS FUNDED SITE THAT WAS SECRETLY STARTED BY HILLARY CLINTON TO SMEAR A GREAT PATRIOT!!!
EVERYONE KNOWS HOW MUCH HANNITY LOVES THE TROOPS (until it was time for him to serve).
That must be it. The wardrobe supervisor was polishing his lapel pin when those pictures were taken.
I thought he was licking the dirt off of Sean's shoes? Or was it his butt he was polishing?
I remember now. Sean asked him to polish his knob.
It wasn't but a couple of months ago that some repressive (new nomenclature for republican) loons infiltrating this site and ganged up on me for making similar remarks. Those miscreants must be getting their coolaid IV drip feed bags changed as they didn't blast you for your funny comment. hanity is a perpetual verisimilitude. Those lapeless folks are having special pins designed to go along with their ideology. Solid lead 666 pins encapsulated in a glass sphere filled with co2 gas and mercury vapor designed to be eaten if they should miss a meal of grease, sugar and bleached white flour. I love those repressives. s. hanities book makes Mein Kamph seem logical, plausible and possible. I will get one at a second hand store in a few weeks for 25 cents. I know thats way too much but a good laugh is priceless.
Hilary why are'nt you flagging these 'merica hating posters on your secret web site? We all know how cunning and ruthless you are and are perplexed why you allow such dissent on this totalitarian site? What gives? Are you or are you not the crafty political monster of your reputation?
What does "taken out of context" mean hear? Is there some "context" when Hannity puts on a lapel pin?
You know some of the phrases that are used in intelligent arguments, like "taken out of context", but you're really not using them to argue intelligently, are you?
I know where hannity's pin is. I saw it on his mom's dresser last night.
Obviously this is a joke. Sorry if anyone but hannity is offended.
Kevino scores with the "mom" joke.
Kudos, Sir!
....but the little 11 year old boy that was in the "room" with them ran off with it and hanity couldn't get his pants on fast enough to catch him. So hanity is pinless as well as pointless.
Oh, man...
My sides hurt. This is just about the funniest thing ever posted here.
Patriots don't need to wear flag pins. On the other hand, those who proudly go out of their way not to wear one (traitors i.e. Democrats) are most likely card-carrying ACLU types. (Shumer and friends)
So what are the critical issues again? We've got cleavage, laughing, shrill voices, hairstyles, clothing colors, and now, lapel pins.
The right is doing a fine job of making sure Democrats have plenty of important things to consider when choosing a nominee.
Bingo. Notice how many of these little teapot tempests we've had lately? If you want to see what they're trying to distract us from, just read the Huffington Post or Buzzflash for a couple of days. Torture memos...corruption in Iraq...and of course, we're not talking about the lies told to get us into Iraq; that particular issue is dead and buried. But they can kvetch about G.D. lapel pins!
Don't forget the Koster !!
He really loves the troops and his flock of sheep will tell you that he wears his pin on his underwear. And they can prove it because they see his pin whenever they kiss his a$$. He is surely losing his mind. But he must remember when a Democrat gets elected, he'll have eight (8) years of hate time for which he can reinvent pillary. Oops, that sort of sounds like Hillary.
Haven't these talkjocks anything better to do than worry about lapel pins? What is next athletes feet?
They're not allowed to talk about issues. If they did, the sheep would be alerted to the fact that both parties have the same fascist policies and that things are just getting worse and worse. Also, these folk were hired for their immaturity, showing any depth was a sure way of not getting the job.
Oh come on everybody knows Sean is a great American, he's probably got that tatooed on his chest so he don't need no stinkin pin.
Lynn, he really has it tatooed on his "pole".
Thanks Snoopy, that was a visual I could have done without. Now, since it won't go away, I need to scrub the back of my eyeballs out.
If it helps, it's not a very tall flag "pole".
Snoopy, good doggy!
the hubble telescope could not find that pole. His hands are really small.
If it helps, it's not a very tall flag "pole".
I guess his flag is flying at...half-mast?
Snoopy, Hannity's tatoo probably says "Beat The Democrats, Not This"
Oh please, Hannity wraps himself in so many flags that he's obscured his own vision. He's so eager to embrace anything Red, White, and Blue that he fails to see beyond colors. (His radio show's theme, if I'm not mistaken, is "Let Freedom Ring" by Martina McBride -- a song about a mother burning her house down to escape an abusive alcoholic spouse. Hannity either sees nothing perverse about using this as an unproblematic patriotic theme, or he's too dense to notice.)
So I have to disagree with MMFA's implicit criticism here. Hannity isn't being a hypocrite; he's just stupid. His shows and websites are covered in flags. He's diluted any possible symbolic value the flag and its colors could hold. That he accuses Obama of being unpatriotic for not wearing a pin is absurd; to accuse him of not living up to his own flag-wearing standards strikes me as pointless if not detrimental.
I think you're pretty safe going with the "too dense" assumption, when you're talking about the dumbest guy in broadcasting. I'd be surprised if he has ANYTHING to do with production of any of his shows - tv or radio - beyond keeping himself from being too distracted by shiny objects to be trained to repeat a few phrases and buzzwords.
That's probably why they removed his lapel pin...
Mark Levin is dumber. And I've never seen him with a pin on his shirt/coat/whatever. Just another 'do as I say not as I do' moron.
"Coming up next, my exclusive report on how the Clintons plotted to drop a nuclear bomb on the GOP headquarters. You won't believe what my guest has to say about... oooh... shiny... pretty... I wonder what this pin would feel like in my mouth... Ouch! Hey! Oooh... shiny... Ouch! Shiny.... Ouch!"
Everyone is forgetting ... Republicans don't have to prove they love America. We are just supposed to take it as a given just as we are supposed to take it as a given that Democrats are spineless cut and run wimps who want to ban Christmas.
I think my IQ just dropped 20 points writing that
http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/james_dobson_300.jpg
no pin
http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/james_dobson_300.jpg
Scary but no pin
http://jagdish.blogs.com/photos/wwe_superstars/the_rock.jpg
Chiseled, presidential chin and abs, no pin
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sections/news/local/warren/mainart.jpg
nearly drowning in his own rightesnous, but no pin.
and last but least, not presidential, suffering from letting wife buy shirt with restrictive collar, Super 'Merican Sean's boss:
http://www.partisanblast.com/wp-content/wp-uploads/2007/03/rogerailes.jpg
oh, my bad. Sean's favorite guest of all time, ginormous ta tas, super cool white leather outfit,
But no effing pin! Why do they hate 'Merica so freaking much???
http://www.cbsnews.com/images/2006/05/21/image7acc2635-8d98-42b2-b26a-1fccb3a4e2f3.jpg
aaaagh!! MIND BLEACH...STAT!
( it burns us)
Who knew this would be so much fun, thanks Sean!
Enormous ego, thus the high resolution jpg, nice flag in the background, that famous toothy grin, but, sadly this is not a great 'merican, cuz he got no pin!
http://www.cbsnews.com/images/2006/05/21/image7acc2635-8d98-42b2-b26a-1fccb3a4e2f3.jpg
Super white teeth, hair impeccable , not sure about pin but give the guy a break, it's a mug shot afterall
http://www.pigbird.com/bush/images/tom_delay_mugshot.jpg
Barb and Beavis, obviously after 8 or 9 high balls, maybe lost their pins at the party.
http://www.cliffbemis.com/pics/barb.jpg
That's all for now, feel free to contribute. Sean really stepped in it this time.
oh just one more: another non great American
http://img17.photobucket.com/albums/v51/PeteLaV/bike_pin_up_girl.jpg
but fabulous legs!!
Are\nt professional broadcasters suppose to know better than to change tense mid paragraph?
W]hy do we wear pins? Because our country was under attack
I'm sure Sean will be all over this story. after all, can't have republicans like this in the coast guard!
Maybe Sean will comment on this fact? I mean, Bush's tax cuts were the saviour of the economy, right? So why is unemployment going up even after republicans re-defined the term?
No pin? Why does Hannity hate our troops so much? <sigh>
At first I thought Shamity's pin may have been filched by someone here to use as a centerpiece for the normal Friday CyberHappyHour. But no one has volunteered snacks or beverages this week, so that must be off the table. Then I looked closely at one of the photos. It's there, camoflauged (?) to look like part of his lapel. I'm sure he purposely did that so he could mingle with the "unwashed masses" (AKA those that don't buy his schtick) without being noticed.
"camouflaged", right letters, wrong order. Oh well, time for Friday Night Lights, back after the football games.
demigods are allowed to say: "do as I tell you to do and ignore the fact that I'll do as I dam well please" (craig, bush, cheatme.... oh heck.. the list is too long and you already know
What you are forgetting is that there is a difference between announcing that you are not going to wear the flag lapel pin and forgetting to wear it.
It is no different than announcing that you are not a Christian and forgetting that you are a Christian and then going to have really hot gay sex with a prostitute or someone you just met in a toilet room at an airport.
I would think this was pretty obvious.
Hypocrite? Nah, just a good American patriot.
Wouldn't trying to pin an American Flag pin on a liberal be like hanging garlic around a vampire's neck? Or handing kryptonite to Superman?
Or taking Underdog's super engergy vitamin pill from his ring?
Nice try small fry. I'm a dedicated, lifelong liberal, and I went and fought for your right to be stupid.
I'm more of a patriot in my sleep than you ever will be. I don't wear a flag pin, I don't fly a flag in my yard, and I'd rather sip my bear during the national anthem at the ball game than stand up.
you got a problem with that? Go to iraq and get your ass shot off, and THEN you can say that liberals aren't patriots.
Of course, that's "sip my BEER."
And I'd buy you a bear, uuhhh, a beer, at a ballgame just to say thanks, Kevino.
I'll buy you your second bear or beer, whichever you prefer as a way of saying thank-you for your service.
I almost enrolled in billybobjones university to get my egicacion in bush talking points but that course in reality changed my mind. ann coulter is posting again.
Who said anything about patriotism? I'm only talking about wearing a flag lapel pin - you know that only scoundrels wrap themselves in outward signs like that.
right?
Oh... you mean like hitting a right winger with truth. I see...
kinda like strapping an original idea to Billybobs belt.
He'd injure his back from the weight of an original thought, I'm sure...
No but trying to talk sense to an ignorant riechwing moron like YOU would certainly like trying to float across the Atlantic on a Soda Cracker
...or like getting a 100% conversion rate teaching evolution in a babtist church here in w. ky. I live in providense
1 million dead Iraqis, 5 million refugees, 3700 dead US soldiers, tens of thousands maimed for life. And they argue over lapel pins. Stick a fork in the media, it's done.
Redking, I'm having a bizarre moment. I just turned on the tube, and a local channel is showing old Wally George reruns. I don't know if he was syndicated, or on TV other places, but he's this local clown who started in the early 80s from a station by Disneyland, doing a corny phony Republican talk show.
We used to watch it back in the day, probably having just enough money to buy a couple of beers and laugh at this conservative goofball.
If you'd told me back then (close to 25 years ago) that the highest rated cable "news" channel would look a lot like Wally George, I would've called you a nut.Now I'm scared to watch Idiocracy again.
Sean "You're A Great American" Hannity needs to replace his previous flag lapel pin. Maybe we should tape one to his office door, or slip one in his pile of messy papers.
If you want to get this aging media hack's goat, e-mail him a JPEG image of a flag lapel pin. Don't include attachments, they may not be opened. Paste the flag lapel pin image directly in the e-mail so it can be seen. He'll get the message. Or call his phony radio show and ask why he's not wearing a flag lapel pin.
I've worked with fraudulent people before in radio and television, but Sean tops them all!
Here is what is going on...
Our side will not budge... No compromises...
Your side will not budge... No compromises...
We ALL lose...
Rush, Ann, Sean and others on my side are WRONG...
Hilary, Reid, Murtha and others are WRONG on your side...
We ALL lose again...
As long as my side AND your side continue to throw insults at each other instead of hammering out VERY HARD compromises to the War (that I support & some of you don't) or the Socilized Health Care (that some of you support and I do not), then we are just ALL stuck.
Your side says that WE CONSERVATIVES are to blame for all that is WRONG with America, hey we ARE part of America too...
Our side says that YOU LIBS are to blame for all that is WRONG with America, hey you ARE Americans too...
How will this EVER end, you here at MM can not really believe that you can have it ALL your way, we Conservatives that listen to Rush can NOT think we can have everything our way...
But when I read the post here throughout all of the recent threads I only see stubborn hatered of the "OTHER" side. Hell, all of my posts up till now have been FULL OF SLURS, HATE, MY SIDE IS RIGHT, YOUR COMMIES and other stuff that I am not very proud of now. But wait, the responces to me and other Consevatives on this site have NOT been kind either, calling us NAZIS, RADICAL CHRISTIANS, POOR HATERS, RACISTS, ect.
When will both side (yes, me too) learn that we are ALL in this together, like it or not. We prove right here in these forums that America is DIVIDED, slit down the middle with BOTH sides feeling that they are the ONLY ones that have rights, feelings, thoughts and opinions.
We will we ALL stop name calling and just see IF, and I know it's a HUGE If, but if we can find ANY common ground, any place to compromise.
But just look back at these threads over the last 10 days or so. It really does not look like there is ANY uniting factor ANYWHERE other then our dislikes for each other.
I really do not know what to do anymore. I will NOT change my basic beliefs that American has far too many that want the United States to actualy LOSE a war, a poll showed that 1 in 5 Dems want the US to Lose, think it would be better for the World. Sorry, but that scares me. I can not give up my thought that calling a 25 year old in a family that makes around $80k a year is poor and needs MY money for Health Insurance.
The list could go on and on...
And from you side you would say that you will not drop your opinions that there should be Universal Health Care for all Americans, Socilized womb to tomb hand outs of all kinds, Increased taxes on "the rich", an END to the illeagle war...
See ? Where do we start to compromise ? What can we do ?
You folks of BOTH parties just watch how bad this post gets hammered... Watch the hate come out. Even here we will find NO civility, no compromises, so how do we expect to get along with each other and survive. My side is NOT going away, we are getting louder and stronger and pushing back against what we feel like is the decline of America, your side is NOT going away, it is ALSO getting STRONGER and LOUDER.
How does this end ?
Is a stupid pin that important to EITHER side, my gosh, look at us all here, like small fricking childeren squabaling over this, calling each other names, challenging the others patriotisim...
No wonder we as a country are doomed, we REALLY hate each other and each others views and opinions. Wow, I was and am just as guilty.
--"How does this end ?"--
For one thing, rather than writing long scribes here endlessly bemoaning the state of affairs, take some action. Email Sean Hannity instead, using the contact information supplied above. Ask Hannity why he felt it necessary to ---very hypocritically--- slam Obama for stating a perfectly sane, reasonable, personal belief about pin-wearing.
Dave,
As opposed to my "ramble" where I admit BOTH sides are wrong, you again only point the finger at me and Sean.
No compromise again I see, we are the only ones wrong in your opinion.
YOU asked "how does this end?". Do you want suggestions or don't you?? Or do you just want to complain and be the helpless, forlorn victim?
"This" ends, not by writing long, dejected posts on Media Matters threads, but by being proactive.
This specific MM item is inarguably a very hypocritical, unfair slam on Obama by Hannity. YOU could be proactive and email Hannity. THAT would be doing something to try and "end this".
---"No compromise again I see, we are the only ones wrong in your opinion"---
Another thing:
This isn't about "compromise". This site is about holding the media responsible for misinformation --conservative misinformation. WE here are proactive about making the media accountable and trying to change their ways.
NO ONE says that it's all YOUR fault. There's blame on both sides. But, sheeesh: do something about it instead of moaning and playing the victim. That's why there is "contact information" on these pages.
There are other sites that monitor "liberal" misinformation. YOU can go THERE and take some action. Maybe if we all do our parts, the media will one day become, truly fair and balanced.
Well folks, as Dave put;s it so well, "this is NOT about compromise", let's just continue to beat each other up with slurs, propaganda from BOTH sides and divide the country. Dave's idea of "action" is to wirte to Hanity, or a Lib show and try to silence what BOTH sides see as opperession and lies.
So again, you go your way, I'll go mine...
Dave, the Countrt is split, neither side is going to "win" any arguments until we get to the "compromises" I emntioned and STOP taking the "actions" of slander, slurs, lies that BOTH sides do so well and that YOU continue to promote.
Actually I think there is much room for compromise on many issues from healthcare to the environment. What makes you think Democrats are pushing this point at all? What precisely should Democrats or Obama concede on this issue? Is it that Obama was too frank or honest? What did he do wrong here in your mind that he needs to meet the other side halfway? Do you understand that in some situations one side may be entirely wrong or at fault?
I am more than willing to admit my side is wrong when it is. It simply doesn't appear to be the case here. Hannity is wrong. His own failure to wear a flag pin would seem to support that. I agree the whole thing is pretty stupid, but Democrats haven't been the ones trying to make hay. This one is all on the Republicans and I am not going to fault Obama or Democrats gratuitously as it seems you prefer.
What precisely do you believe Democrats or Obama have done wrong here that they should admit to?
MGARNETT:
When I saw your first post, where you had questions in this new site for Liberals, I answered as thoroughly and honestly as I could, including detailed follow-ups.
I see a slightly different YOU today. You are bewildered, and concerned, and somewhat repentant about your original approach here. Obviously, I am still willing to read your posts and consider your points when made.
Communication is the key to the "compromise" you seem to want. YES, we are all Americans (I made this very point in my responses to your questions). Yes, we have different backgrounds, different world views, and different notions of WHAT WORKS.
I would suggest that we concentrate on examining WHAT WORKS, and what DOES NOT WORK. I remember an example of your earlier rhetoric, where you claimed NOT ONE government program has ever worked as intended. Do you still feel that way? Did you not consider that the examples I gave you, Rural Electrification, NASA, and Social Security (to name a few) have all worked as intended and have been very successful and GOOD for America? If you can see your way to make such a concession, then compromise has already begun.
If you continue to believe that government is NEVER the answer, then I doubt we will ever reach any agreement. We will fight it out rhetorically, and vote on election day. One side or the other will WIN, and will run with making policy for as long as they retain power.
And our nation trudges onward into the future.
Tex, points made and taken in the "more" responsible fashion are always welcomed. You DID make several valid points, the Rural Electric, NASA (to some extent, I sometimes wonder if it has not out lasted it's use), but i would NOT agree with SS... SS is broke, has been wasted by BOTH parties (I am NOT pointing at either side), The cost increases in SS have made it a joke. I would like to talk to you about Galvaston, Tx. where the city workers were allowed to opt OUT of SS and use the money in the market. I'm sure you have read this story, we Cons use it all the time, the folks in Galvaston have over 1 MILLION each now. They can get it lump sum, payments, leave it to family... Can you say that about SS ? If left alone, instead of having the Gov take and abuse our money, for the WAR which you do not want to support, or the Health Care that I do not want to support, look how much more we ALL could have, poor, mid, upper... If I had the money invested that has gone to SS, I would be rich and retire wealthy, as it is, SS will hardly be able to pay for food... So you think it's a good program ?
Medicad is FULL of fraud, waste, but you tout it as a sucess... If I ran my bussiness that way, I'd be broke, out of Bussiness, but since the Gov has a never ending supply of OUR money, they just keep wasting... again BOTH sides.
Tex, you did fail to mention the name calling from both sides, the seeming hatered of the others views, how do we fix that ?
When your side wins the WH, we hammer you,(Clinton)... When we win, you hammer us, (Bush)... Horrible cycle...
I will say this and I have told my son, If you were to ever meet President Clinton, you are to be extreamly polite AND respectful, he was the President of the United States, like or dislike, you will show respect and call him Mr President.
I bet your side can't say the same for Bush...
I di not like President Clinton, but he was MY President too.
"I bet your side can't say the same for Bush..."
You're probably right about that. Then again, I can't think of one thing Clinton did that the Republicans have qualms with that is nearly as bad as lying to get us into war, lying to keep us in war, and demonizing anyone who disagrees with him.
These are not moral equivalencies. You'd do better to compare the sides' opinions of Clinton and Bush Sr. than Clinton and the boy king. This administration has done damage to this country that will take decades to recover from.
Hey Tex, I just guess we need to find a way for your side to stay out of MY pockets for Health Care for Everyone ( I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT HELPING TRUE POOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES, I support that 100% ) and other "socilized" programs that I think are making Americans lazy and waiting for the Gov check...
And I will stay out of YOUR pockets to pay for a war that you dispise...
Now, how do we do it ?
How do we compromise ?
MGARNETT:
Perhaps if I start with listing areas in which I believe we can agree?
We can agree that Social Security is due for a “fix”, akin to that which Bob Dole oversaw in the 1980’s. The program itself has never missed a payment. I would hope we could agree that SS benefits have helped millions of people who had no other means, and that this should be seen as a GOOD thing. We agree that BOTH parties have played games with the SS funds, and that this should stop immediately. Whether by a “lock box” or other means, these funds should be dedicated to that purpose ONLY.
We both now agree that SOME government programs have been successful. We can agree that we should have a goal of EVERY government program being successful, and to achieve the goals set. I’m all for that, as well as agreement to a “zero tolerance” to waste, fraud, and/or abuse of these programs and their funds.
The Galveston plan (for municipal workers only) is mandatory, and calls for the investment of pension funds BY THE GOVERNMENT. I understand about the TREND that, on aggregate, the stock market pays better than basic government “returns” for those in it for the long term. (Short termers and speculators, of course, routinely lose their shirts. And sometimes, long-term investors get blindsided by an ENRON.)
What I question here is whether you agree that THE GOVERNMENT should be making investment choices, picking “winners” using huge pension funds? I would think such a scheme would go against every anti-government bone in your body. I agree that government should do everything possible to help people invest more in their retirement, but I DISagree that the government should be investing those funds FOR the pension holders. Everything about such an idea is a red warning flag; potential for corruption, for cronyism, the GOVERNMENT deciding winners and losers, a bureaucrat somewhere deciding which companies deserved to be funded, and which do not. It is a mess of conflict.
I very much doubt that anyone in the Galveston plan has opted to withdraw a million dollar lump sum from the plan. Could you link to where this is allowed, or has happened?
We agree, or SHOULD agree, that government SHOULD NOT be run as “a business”, that is, with a “profit motive”. As it stands, government programs are actually PROHIBITED from showing a profit. If you think that should change, we DISagree.
We agree that political namecalling is counterproductive. We agree that THE OFFICE of the President, and other government officials, should be shown respect. We agree that “helping true poor children” is a valid goal. I’m afraid we may not agree that Universal Health Care could be done while “staying out of our pockets”, yours and mine. Similarly, we will both pay for defense and WAR. I can’t see any way that could change.
Wow, a true Lib & Conserv found starting points we can agree on... Details need tweeking, but agreements...
One question, in SS we don't make intrest, or am I incorrect ? That's NOT a smart ass question, I really do not know. But I think we, the tax payer, do NOT make intrest. On SS I just think that those of us who pay in should get ALL of what we put in at least back... We can not give it to our children, we can not give it to our wife. At leasst you will grant me that that is a HUGE diff in the Galvaston situation comapred to what we have.
Can we agree that a "poor child" is NOT up to age 25 and in a family with 80k income ?
Is there a compromise maybe in the works for the two of us on Illeagle Immigration ? Or am I just hopeing for way too much, lol. ?
"Can we agree that a "poor child" is NOT up to age 25 and in a family with 80k income?"
The 80k was actually a talking point, and not a reality of the plan. The age issue is largely due to the fact that private insurance companies allow coverage for college students through age 24 on their parents' health insurance plans, so the SCHIP plan mirrored that.
You are all blind. Sean IS wearing his pin. He always wears it. It's on his head!
Like Shrill O'Liely always says "pinhead!"
Dave,
Getting involved does NOT mean to continue this war of words and slander and slurs, how is that involved from EITHER side.
Both are wrong and you are wrong for wanting it to continue...
Talk instead of insult. We might reach common ground.
But you actualy think your making a difference ?
Neither of us are.
Telling someone that their words are inappropriate or unwelcome is not continuing a war of words. As a matter of fact, it's the first step to ending it.
If your child calls someone a name in your presence, what are your options?"Continue the war of words" - call them a name in return, to show them what it feels like"Remove yourself from the war of words" - ignore it, because calling attention to it just makes it worse"End the war of words" - tell the child that the word is not welcome, that you do not wish to hear it again, and explain to them why they should not use it.
If you want to END the conflict, you cannot just ignore it - you must address it, and do so calmly. With Limbaugh's group, I did contact one of my local stations in the past week to let them know that not only did I not welcome this kind of propaganda being uncritically aired, but also that I did not appreciate a subsidiary of my parent company being involved in it. I had a very pleasant conversation about first amendment rights - what they mean and what they do NOT mean - with him, and we left with our opinions stated. If more on both sides of the aisle who found Limbaugh's statements out of line would have done the same, I guarantee Limbaugh would find fewer stations playing his vitriol.
In the end, it is more important for reasonable conservatives to write to sponsors and producers of shows like Limbaugh's, and more important for reasonable liberals to write to organizations like MoveOn when we see something that we know is not conducive to productive political dialog, because while a producer may write off one complaint as a crackpot liberal or an idiot dittohead, they cannot do the same to scores of SANE remarks that take issue with a specific item. Therefore, Dave's suggestion that if you want to improve discourse, you start with YOUR side is very appropriate - your comments would be taken far more seriously than one from someone the producers have tagged as a troublemaker or an activist. If your problem is primarily with the state of discourse, ignoring the problem will do nothing to fix it - you must work to END the problem through reasoned and persistent education and discourse.
Who but the low-lifes that watch faux cares a damn what this bag of fecal matter says about anything? His putting on a flag pin is the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig; it is still a pig. I would much rather see him sit on pins pointed straight up. Is this cretin married to anyone? If he has any children I am sure they have been duly brainwashed by watching their sire and his soulmate BilO. They need to be rescued by Family Services from being treated inhumanely.
To whom it may concern at customer service: Is there a flag pin for when our country is under attack, and under seige, as it were, by the Fox "news" wackos? The Constitutional right of free speech is not an _open invitation_ to misinform the public. That, Fox does of its own accord (except, perhaps for Greta). To borrow from the claims and standards of the likes of the Hannitys, and Coulters: Fox news is a traitorous organization
Sincerely, Hyperbole Q. Publeck
Oh, and one more thing. It seems to me that Hannity publicly accused the Clintons of murder...yes, of course, he may have not said those words excactly...but by _his_ own standards he is a slanderer.
What was the name name of the Reporter from the CBS affiliate, in Cedar Rapids,Iowa? How come Hannity didn't have him on his Pimp Show?
Perhaps the answer is actually standing up to "your" side when they come out with these stupid talking points about earth shattering issues like "lapel pins". What Obama said was a valid opinion. Patriotism is not flag waving, it's something you carry in your heart and demonstrate by your actions.After 9-11 almost every car on the highways had a flag waving from it. A few months later I recall how on a trip out of town in a span of about 100 miles I saw 7 flags on the side of the rode, and it depressed me that the patriots of convenience couldn't be bothered to take care of the flags they so proudly displayed for that brief moment of self righteous arm chair patriotism.I believe what Dave was trying to say (and I admit I could be dead wrong), is if you want it to end, both sides have to stop giving unconditional support to "their side", and hold those people accountable who drag the debate down to a competition of name calling and finger pointing.When people like Rush, Sean, Ann, and others tell me that because I don't buy what their side is selling then by default I am supporting the terrorist, hate America, am Godless........then yes I tend to react in a negative way. I will say that as for myself I love discussion and debate and it wasn't until the right started questioning my love of country as a response to any opinion they didn’t agree with did I ever start hurling back the insults that came my way, and I'm almost certain that most of the progressives feel the same way, but after years of Cons telling me how I am not a real American I must admit I reached a point were pointing out Con hypocrisy and stupidity was all that was left because the cons who post on most of these boards don't want discussion, they only want to try to disrupt the discussion, deflect the conversation and name call.
Want it to end? Tell Rush to stop saying things like "I want to respectfully disagree with the president on the last part of what he said. I am going to challenge the patriotism of people who disagree with him because the people that disagree with him want to lose."
I don't know anyone who wants us to lose, I just want a definition of what constitutes winning other than hyperbole that the water boys of this adminstration keep handing out.
Challenge my patriotism? Don’t be surprised if I punch you in the mouth both figuratively and literally.Want it to stop then stop supporting people whose only power is to keep you afraid of anyone who doesn’t think just like them, and hold them accountable for the hateful divisive things they say, and then perhaps we can find common ground to address what we both agree are real problems our country faces.
Did Hillary's Media Matters quote Sean Hannity saying he wouldn't wear a pin?
I didn't think so.
Obama said he wouldn't wear a pin. There's a difference. I guess Hillary's Media Matters isn't nuanced enough to figure out the difference.
A surprisingly good point LH. Nonetheless it demonstrates Obama's point that you don't need to wear a lapel pin to be patriotic. I am sure Hannity thinks he is being a "great American" whether he is wearing his pin or not. It kind of underscores how pointless and stupid the attack on Obama is in general.
What is the name of the Reporter from Cedar Rapids Iowa, does anyone know<
When is Hannity going to open the books on his "Freedom Concerts?" How come he's hiding what he raised for the Wounded Veterans? What is Hannity hiding? "Where's the Money", Hannity?
Last year the Freedom Alliance, a 501c3 Charity reported they received over $9,500,000 in Public Donations, but "ONLY SPENT" a total of $397,900 on Grants to the Wounded, $91,400, and $306,500 on Scholarships to Colleges?
It's time to come clean Hannity, the drumbeat is only going to get louder! Cleanse your soul now ,if you have one, Seanny-Poo!
Mercado,
You won't get no cooperation from Freedom Alliance. You are right about the organization. The musicians receive a fee to perform at the event. Plus, other expenses like travel (Montgomery Gentry travels by a tour bus), food, hotel, etc.
I recommend reporting this to the IRS and tell them your suspicions. They will investigate, especially when it deals with people in the entertainment industry.
Tax evasion is a crime, punishable with a fine and/or jail time, and the lost of a job on radio and television.
So if I don't wear a pin I'm not a real American? Is that REALLY what the Cons are saying here?
I suppose to Sean and other Cons it shoul be like days past when you had to wear one of those crooked cross patches on your sleave to prove you loved the Fatherland, if not "off to the ovens with you".
Yes if you don't agree with the Presdent then you are a traitor, if you don't wear a pin you are not a patriot, so I suppose we all need to run out and get our arm bands, I mean flag pins, and in unison scream hail to victory, hail to Bush.
Is this not one of the stupidest non issue issues of recent history or is it me?
Did Hillary's Media Matters quote Sean Hannity saying he wouldn't wear a pin?
I didn't think so.
Obama said he wouldn't wear a pin. There's a difference. I guess Hillary's Media Matters isn't nuanced enough to figure out the difference.
Yes the difference is Obama said wearing a pin doesn't really PROVE anything about someone being a real patriot. In fact if I were a terrorist I would probably drape pins on everything I owned.
But Leatherhead, I would suggest that if you are going to throw patriotic pins at others like Sean chose to do then you should be at least be sure that no one can throw your lack of pins back at you.
Ouch, you guys have seen my posts here, I'm no Lib, not close... But I must say your last line IS a very valid point.
I do listen to Sean, and this will NOT change that fact, however it is a very interesting point.
And, btw, I do not waer oa pin either, I really think this whole thing is blown way out of proportion and I WOULD NOT vote for Sen. Obama becasue of his views, not becasue he fails to wear a pin.
You've asked how you can get things to change.
If you patronize Sean's show and give him the eyeballs that makes him the big $$ that keeps him on the air, but you do not give him your opinion of what he is saying when he plays the More Patriotic than Thou game, you are encouraging the division in this country. An FYI.
Sean wears it on the end of his tongue.
I'm sure if you stalinist libs would listen you would know this.
I think Hannity is actually missing a dunce cap on top of his stupid horns. As for the Fred Thompson picture it is actually very hard to get past the wrinkles on his face to spot any pins
Where's Shemp's flag pin? That's easy (no Ann Coulter or Laura Ingraham jokes, please) it's in the same place where his assignment orders are for the First Gulf War.
O, great point, Hannity doesn't always wear a flag pin. The real question is how come that point isn't brought up right away. Instead of reacting in this way, the response has to be immediate, sadly it always is up to watchdog groups with much smaller audiences to re-act. Media Matters should use the recent Limbaugh and O'rielly attacks to make an even bigger noise back at them. The system is rigged and the chances are so slim for any national news forum on television I am grateful they are fixated on your honest reporting. I copy alot of your articles and send them to the blind lemmings in my family who have never even heard of Media Matters. I just wish you had at least a half hour of the audience that Faux news does.
"...while criticizing Obama for not wearing a flag pin, Hannity himself has not worn an American flag lapel pin on a number of recent occasions."
But he has taken to wearing a flag armband and saluting pictures of GWB...
A lapel pin doesn't show his true patriotic nature... He wears an arm band. Notice all the photos conveniently hide his left arm.