NRO's Derbyshire on percentages of Hispanics enrolled in school in Iowa town: "[T]ruly an invasion"
In an October 18 entry -- titled "Aztlan North" -- on National Review Online's blog The Corner, NRO columnist John Derbyshire cited the percentage of Hispanic students in the schools of Storm Lake, Iowa, and then wrote: "Say what you like, that is truly an invasion. Why on earth are we letting this happen?"
From The Corner:
Thursday, October 18, 2007
Aztlan North [John Derbyshire]
Incidentally, while hobnobbing with those Midwesterners at Storm Lake, Iowa -- their surnames mostly taken from the Stockholm, Oslo, and Berlin phone books -- I heard a couple of times the remark that in this little corner of rural Iowa, the student body in the schools is half Hispanic. The remark was passed in a polite, diffident and non-condemnatory way -- of course! this is Iowa -- and when I tried to probe, people just retreated into niceness ("These Mexican restaurants are really great!")
Still, I found it hard to believe, surrounded as I was by Lundqvists and Muellers. In an idle moment, however, I looked up the stats on GreatSchools.net. Sure enough, the "Student Stats" on GreatSchools for Storm Lake show percentages Hispanic as:
- High school: 32
- Middle School: 43
- Elementary schools: 53, 66, 63, 53.
Say what you like, that is truly an invasion. Why on earth are we letting this happen?
Responding to Derbyshire's post on The Corner, NRO editor Kathryn Jean Lopez wrote: "Um, Derb .... I have no idea the situation as to their immigration status, but if that population consists of legal immigrants who speak English ... I'm not moved to invasion outrage" (ellipses in original). Derbyshire replied: "I can't agree, Kathryn. Legal or illegal, this is asking for trouble," later adding, "If we must have mass immigration, can we please return to the fine old American tradition of taking people from (A) lots of different places, none of which are (B1) contiguous to our territory and (B2) make historical claims -- propagated, for instance, in their school textbooks -- on that territory?"
As Media Matters for America noted, in a September 20 column headlined "Islamophobophobia," Derbyshire wrote that it would be wise to "deny entry to foreign Muslims" and "to expel ... resident foreign Muslims."
"I can't agree, Kathryn. Legal or illegal, this is asking for trouble," later adding, "If we must have mass immigration, can we please return to the fine old American tradition of taking people from (A) lots of different places, none of which are (B1) contiguous to our territory and (B2) make historical claims -- propagated, for instance, in their school textbooks -- on that territory?"
And there you have it, there aren't enough white people immigrating here. Liked the contaguous qualifier, that would also exclude most of africa, asia and the middle east. What a sneaky way to say "whites only need apply"!
- I have no idea the situation as to their immigration status - Kathryn Jean Lopez
Neither does the federal govt. Storm Lake looks like a good spot to start checking the legal/illegal status...come to think about it...we should check all the schools...instead of offering in-state college tuition to illegal aliens.
Go home...come back legally...and you're welcome here.
First of all you dont know they ARENT here legally you just jump right to the conclusion. Second he didnt CARE if they were here legally, he said so. ARE you joining him in his racist White Supremist ignorance?
First of all...I didn't jump to your conclusion. I said we should check their status...if they're here illegally...it's time to go home.
Second, I don't really care what Derbyshire thinks.
Thirdly, I'm not joining him in any fashion.
It's my position that you should be able to prove your legal status...if you can't...then it's time to go home...or be deported.
Come back legally...and you're welcome here.
I don't care if Derbyshire does decide to become a legal immigrant. I still wouldn't welcome him here.
As far as I'm concerned, he's a criminal, and should be shipped back to that island he came from. Let them deal with his garbage. I don't want him spewing his crap in our great country.
Can you prove your legal status?? I think you might be here illegally. Prove your legal status right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Referring to Wesley BTW...by wanting to check the status of someone just because they are brown and their name ends with a z is profiling. You need to have some sort of better reasonable suspicion than just their heritage.
Good point, Mookie!
How about this profiling - Derbyshite has bad teeth, therefore he's probably from England. Since he came to this country illegally, we can only assume that he wants to rekindle the revolutionary war (or war of 1812?)
I therefore declare him to be an enemy combatant, and order him to be detained indefinitely, at a clandestine location.
I've proven my status per the government's regulations for each job I've held over the last 20 years. Presumably these people have as well.
But again, as pointed out earlier in the thread, this article isn't about "legal or illegal" immigrants. This guy doesn't want them brown people here. And that's just ugly.
Maybe he doesn't want 50-60% brown people, i.e, people from another culture here in a short period of time. Neither do I. I like our culture. If I wanted to live in another culture I WOULD!
Doesn't mean I don't like brown people(I'm married to one) or black people or green people.
If the are was turning 50-60% Polish or German or British or French my response wouldn't change. It ain't a color thing.
Papiere, bitte!
No problem. That would take about 60 seconds. Any intelligent requests? Why would a citizen not be able to prove their status?
And if 50% of these schools are Hispanic what are the chances that a significant portion are here illegally? I'd love to see the Vegas odds on that...
It doesn't matter whether they're legal or not, huh, buddy? As a Mexican-American, I'd LOVE to have you try to check my legality when I'm trying to go to school. Yeah, I'd like to see how you'd like the fat lawsuit that would follow. This shows how small these racists' world is- anyone who's not a white guy is an "illegal". All Hispanics are trouble. These guys should just come out and say what they believe already instead of implying it. "Illegal" to them is "sub-human", why pretend like it's not? What a shame that "Hispanic" is now sub-human, too. Oh no, the debate is not about race, at all.
Of course it matters. I believe that everyone attending public funded schools should have to confirm their legal status.
If you can't prove your legal status...it's time to go home...come back legally...and you're welcome here....nothing to do with any rant about "sub-humans".
Well that is a good use of education dollars. They aren't strapped or anything teaching to some stupid test that is no measurement of a quality education. Let's make the schools do the work of the INS or whatever we call it now. We have an immigration enforcement agency for that. What did you do to prove your status when you went to school?
It would require very little effort to produce a birth certificate when you showed up to enroll in school...no proof...no school.
You don't think that many illegal immigrants have "birth certificates"? Not very hard to get. I would think if they put forth the effort that it takes to get here illegally that they would also put forth the effort to get some sort of fake documentation that looks like every other birth certificate. You have no idea what it actually takes to prove your status one way or the other. Would you only question the birth certificates from the brown folks and take the fine scandinavian stock at their word?
Ok, the alien got here illegally and you're willing to look the other way when they broke the law. Now you're going to look the other way when they forge documents...doesn't make much sense to me.
Store clerks check every day for counterfeit currency...check ID's for selling alcohol and tobacco...and sure enough some criminals find a way to beat them...but they don't abandon the effort because they can't catch all of them.
Wes, You always know they are losing the argument when they introduce a racial angle to it......typical, and as sleazy as it gets.
This is not about race, or gender or ethnicity or anything else except the sovereignty of our nation and upholding our immigration laws. Make it about "brown skin", or race bait and they only look desperate and foolish.
Tommy -
You don't think Derbyshite's comments had anything to do with race??? You need to open your eyes, bro.
What argument did we lose, anyways?
His did, but Wes' and mine do not.
OK - but HE did not inject racism into the argument. Racism is the topic of this post, and therefore it was Derbyshite who injected the racism. He just tried to veil it with his macho anti-immigration stance.
But you and others kept expecting him to defend the "brown skin" angle, when Wes was very clear that his issue was not a racial one, but a legal one.
Um.. what is the 'brown skin' angle? Derb's comments were clearly racist, and I haven't seen a single post defending him. I believe Mook and Wes got in an argument over an understanding. The conversation went in a separate direction (racial profiling on proof of citizenship) but I don't think sides were taken and I didn't see a heated argument.
We're all generally on the same page here, trust me.
I got angry when you suggested that somebody 'lost the argument' by playing the race card. This entire thread is about racism, it's almost impossible to discuss it without mentioning the 'race card'
'an understanding' should have read 'a misunderstanding'
Sorry, it's getting late here in the office, and I'm a little cranky. Not trying to be hostile, but Derb's got my dander up.
Derbyshire isn't worth it, he is a marginalized wacko - for most people.
You've now seen several posts defending his comments. Perhaps I'm the lone voice but I don't see a bit of racism in the man's remarks.
I couldn't agree more.
Which was injected, without any criticism of Derbyshire, on a thread ABOUT the racist nonsense Derby spewed. Go ahead and try to pretend that context we like to call THE TOPIC is somehow out of bounds. When he comes in and partially agrees with Derbyshire without making it clear he DOESNT agree with Derby, it is not unreasonable of us to question Wes on whether he really WAS agreeing with the Derbyracist. You have got to be kidding me talking to us about using the racist card on a thread that is ABOUT clearly racist comments. Wes didnt distance himself from them, Wes seemed to be agreeing with the guy. I asked him a straight out question to get to the heart of the matter. It isnt us PLAYING the racist card its YOU GUYS dodging the racism issue.
No dodging here. I don't see the racism in Derb's comments.
Let the name calling begin...
Tommy,
I think you'll agree that there are racists across the entire political spectrum...left to right...and those we would condemn.
However, I've read enough of your comments on this subject to know that racism is not a factor in your stance on immigration...and I agree.
It's about following the law...coming here legally...and being welcome here. It's imperative that we secure our borders...and step up the enforcement of our immigration laws.
That means if you can't prove legal status...it's time to go home...pure and simple.
Very well said, I agree completely.
I agree with both of you as well! Just not with Derbyshite.
"If we must have mass immigration, can we please return to the fine old American tradition of taking people from (A) lots of different places, none of which are (B1) contiguous to our territory...
Yeah, that's a pretty welcoming statement. She just said she doesn't want mexicans immigrating here. And you are indirectly supporting her making your "come here legally" strawman.
Yeah, that's a pretty welcoming statement. She just said she doesn't want mexicans immigrating here.
Eithr that, or she has a problem with all those pesky Canadians - Lorne Green, Mike Myers, Paul Schaffer, Paul Anka, Michael J. Fox, Peter Jennings.....
You conveniently cipped out the reast of letter B which read something like this...people from contiguous nations that don't make claims to the country which they are entering. Seems pretty common sense to me.
"It's about following the law...coming here legally...and being welcome here."-wes
And it's also about fear of the other. It's about job insecurity, wage deflation and the preservation of an English only society. And that's fine, you're entitled. There's no need to dress up this fear as some noble singular struggle for justice.
It's as much about fear as anything else.
Nope...it's about my disgust with those that willfully break our immigration laws and policy...and those that would defend that position.
That disgust not only applies to the open border, just look the other way supporters...it also applies to Pres.Bush.
While our govt. always seems to have time for silly social engineering...they should perform their constitutional duties and secure the borders and deport those that are breaking the law...I don't think that is asking too much.
And I don't think it's asking too much for the government to reform the immigration system to get rid of all the red tape that contributes to the rising tide of illegal immigration, but so far my requests go unanswered. Why should your needs get top priority?
That's a big 10-4...no kick from me.
The nation's security needs should take top priority for countless reasons SOLON. Howbout the needs of the natioin as a whole instead of your selfish personal needs?
Sorry SOLON. I was responding to SNOOPY.
That may be true for some but I guess you've decided it's true for all? Including the posters here? Must be nice to crawl into the hearts of others so you can discern their true meaning. You sir, have an enviable talent.
INTRODUCE a racial angle? Inject racism? You know tommy is losing an argument, well when he is having one but especially when he forgets what the TOPIC IS. The man said directly that he didnt CARE if they were legal or not. The topic of this thread IS the racist, white Supremist BS this guy is spouting. Try to keep up tommy.
That's exactly right Tommy. If you can't win the debate for your indefensible position then just call the opposition racists and xenophobes. Vincente Fox did to the Minute Men just days ago, calling them biggotted, violent, vigil antes(sp?). It's sad but quite transparent.
Illegal immigration, in and of itself, is a victimless crime.
That is probably the most naive and ridiculous post of the day. Congratulations.
The Tommy has spoken.
Uhhhh, maybe you should rethink that...
We need more education - not less education in both Mexico and the United States.
I think you're missing Mookie's point, Wes. He didn't say anywhere in his post that we should 'look the other way'
He's pointing out that there would be a double-standard in profiling hispanics, if proof were required to go to public school. I think he's probably right, too.
It's not profiling when you require all students to produce proof of legal status.
I agree with you, Wes, that you are not advocating profiling with your suggestion of requiring all student to provide proof of citizenship before enrolling. I think that the counterargument was valid that birth certificates are easily forged, and that school administrators are much too swamped to be trained to spot fake documents.
My counterargument to you would be that it would be very irrational to believe that people will leave the country if they are denied entry into the school. More likely, they will just not have their kids enrolled in school and will become a blight on society. I am not saying that we do not need to get control of illegal immigration, but be doing some little things, like keeping people from getting health care or educations or jobs, we will end up paying more in the long run as a society for the mass of hurt, uneducated, unemployed people who are still not leaving the country.
Fair enough...but I'm not advocating the public schools become the front line on enforcing immigration laws...just that they can help out.
I don't agree with your idea that withholding benefits will cause a blight on our society. We should enforce the immigration laws and deport those people before they become a blight...why...most won't leave our great country voluntarily...so we're going to have to take them home. Securing our borders will prevent them from returning illegally.
Disgust? That's productive.
Be honest; fear is a factor in this sealed borders, closed society mindset.
Sorry, meant to post this below an upthread post.
Fear and close-mindedness may be a factor with you...but it's not with me.
Ours is a land of opportunity that I don't have any problem sharing...as long as you come here legally...for me it is just that simple.
Disgust is disgust. It's usually an emotion reserved for murderers, rapists and the like. So there's no need to pretend the argument is strictly a highminded call for justice or that your judgment is clear. It's not. Your judgment is clouded with rage and anger.
I know when I'm wasting time with a fool...adios amigo.
You're the one who said illegal immigration disgusted you. Don't get puffed up and haughty with me because you have no way to deny the accuracy of my observation.
Your comments are foolish. They're pure speculation, assumption, etc, etc. You might know your own heart but to assume that you know Wesley's or mine or anyone else's seems like that good old liberal elitism showing through. Since you already know the "true" points of others perhaps a thread of just Roundhouse comments would be better suited for you?
Yes, yes and by talking about THAT we are more than 40 posts deep into a thread about a CLEARLY racist statement by Derbyshire which SITLL HASNT BEEN ADDRESSED. Derbyshire is a racits, White Supremist cretin and his comments should be condemned
Again, I think we have something in between agreement and direct disagreement.
First: I agree that nobody will leave voluntarily once they are here. I disagree that it is realistic to assume that we can return them to their country of origin and physically secure the borders to a level that would prevent them from returning. More practical, in my opinion, would be to look to the future of immigration and help other countries (I am thinking mainly of Mexico and Central America) be more appealing places. This would prevent people in the future from wanting to come here and would even allow people who are here now want to return home. We can certainly have much more physical border security than we do now to prevent criminals and terrorists from coming over, but we will never keep hordes of people looking for jobs out.
Second: I agree that a multi-faceted system of enforcement is the best way, but to do it from the bottom up, at the local and state level, is counter-productive. It has to happen from the top down to be even close to effective. Righ now, a school could deny a child from enrolling, but if they call INS, do you think anything would be done? So the real result would be an uneducated child and nothing more.
Believing that we cannot secure the border leaves us with few choices. One would be to give up...another would be your suggestion.
I think we can secure the border. While it won't be foolproof...it would significantly reduce the flow of illegal aliens.
The failure of the INS is one of the major factors in creating the mess we're in...and that has to be fixed. I agree that the effort has to be top down with the feds leading the way.
Thinking about the uneducated child you just described...one thing is for sure...had his parents not broken the law and sneaked into the U.S...he would be getting his education courtesy of his home country...where they belong.
It is still a matter of what is on the other side of the border is one...unappealing on one side and ..two...very appealing on the other side.
To make one country safer and to make the unappealing side, more appealing should be the ultimate goal rather than to COP an attitude of search detain and return....ILLEGAL's.
Safer because on our side, illegal's are not just about Mexicans, it is also about terrorists sneaking in.
Now if Mexico were a better place to live then there would not be so much influx of illegals here would there.
and derby is indeed a fearful, racist!
Reinforcing the point, eh, Wesley? Of course it does matter.
It doesn't matter to dodgy old Brits like Derbyshite, though. He just wants you to be white. Otherwise, he does consider you sub-human. He's removing the veil from the 'veiled racism' of rabid immigration opponents.
Obviously, there are some who oppose ILLEGAL immigration on legal grounds, which is perfectly fine.
Derbyshite opposes ANY immigration, legal or illegal, of people of color into the U.S., which is not even his own country. He's a racist, cut and dry.
Everything to do with "sub-humans" because this idiot says he doesn't care if they are legal or not. Ergo, all that matters is that they are Hispanic and that spells trouble. Racist white supremacy. No te hagas pendejo...Don't play dumb. Again, just try to check my legality!
You have a point to debate with Derbyshire...but not with me.
My problem is not with Mexicans or anyone's skin color...my problem is when aliens come here illegally...of any stripe.
Our govt. has done a damn poor job of enforcing the security of our borders. The millions of illegal aliens did not get here overnight...hence they're not going to be deported overnight...but it's sure as hell time that we got started.
I agree Wesley - see also my comment to Tommy below. We're all reasonable people who respect the law of the land.
What I don't respect, however, is bigotry. Once you've shown that you can't separate the actual issue from racism, you're no longer qualified to comment on the matter. NRO should be ashamed for giving this man a voice.
Yeah Wes. I never thought you were a racist. I get your illegal immigration arguments but AGAIN you have made an attempt to DRAG the conversation AWAY from Derbyshires racist spewage, which IS afterall the TOPIC and back to illegal immigration. So let me say AGAIN Derbyshire said he didnt CARE if they were legal or not he was just flat disparaging their surnames. No apparantly you dont think that deserves to be criticised. I think that it should not only BE criticised I wouldnt mind having a THREAD on criticism of such racists WITHOUT it being derailed to what YOU think about illegal immigration since that is IRRELEVANT to a thread where the subject said DIRECTLY that he didnt CARE if they were legal or not.
If you came to my school or my business you can bet I'd check it. You're going to sue? maybe you could take shelter in a church for a year, get deported, and then bad mouth the country you came to illegally, while also committing document fraud.
If everyone's asked to provide proof of citizenship what will you sue for my friend? Perhaps a review of some basic legal tenants would be in order and perhaps some gratitude towards this nation instead of threats and name calling would also be appropriate.
Ok. A reasonable take overall. You just dont CARE about his racist blast against hispanics. Got it.
Well said Wes, of course the NRO loves the open borders and the cheap labor their businesses get - undercutting American workers out of jobs.
Not surprising Ms. Lopez could care less about their immigration status, as she apparently does.
It was Derbyshire who actually said that he couldn't care less, but you accuse Lopez instead?
I think what Derbyshite meant to say is he doesn't care about HIS immigration status.
As far as everyone else, he only cares if their skin isn't white and they talk with a (non-British) accent.
I have no use for Derbyshire, he is an ass as far as I am concerned on many fronts. The larger point I was making was the NRO's open border, big business, cheap labor, WSJ attitude towards illegal immigration - shameful.
Democrats, who constantly say they are for the "little guy", should be outraged at the open border crowds on this issue, but many of them are not. That is very curious.
I agree, open borders are bad. That is completely off the topic of this thread, though.
I think conservatives should be outraged when their legitimate concerns are reduced to denigrate ALL people of hispanic or other foreign heritage.
That is EXACTLY what Derbyshite is doing when he says he doesn't care if their legal or illegal. It does NOT help those who want a reasonable solution to the illegal immigration problem, and it is not good for political discourse in general.
I offered my opinion on Derbyshire. To keep bashing him as the rest of you do post after post is not addressing the bigger picture - which is far more pointed where Ms. Lopez' comments and her "look the other way" attitude on illegal immigration are concerned.
Sorry, Tommy, I just went back and re-read the post. To which of Ms. Lopez's comments are you referring?
This is the only quote I see from her:
"Um, Derb .... I have no idea the situation as to their immigration status, but if that population consists of legal immigrants who speak English ... I'm not moved to invasion outrage"
She called out the racist. Good for her!
I'll be outraged until Derbyshite is deported.
It takes a little reading between the lines, she pounces on the idiot Derbyshire for looking extreme, which he is - thereby positioning herself to look mainstream, which she is not. She is an open border advocate for cheap labor.
Open your eyes.
Honestly, I knew nothing about her before reading this post. Sorry for not keeping up with it, but I can't keep track of all these pundits!
I don't agree with the open-borders crowd, however, I didn't see anything in this post that suggested she was part of that crowd, which is why I defended her. I was impressed when she called out Derb's racism, though.
I think you give her more credit than she deserves, actually. It doesn't take much courage or guts to call out Derbyshire's racism - it's like mastering the obvious, considering his historical offensivenesses.
I think her point was to make him look like all the people that advocate tough immigration laws may just possibley have a secret racial animosity hidden deep within.......and that is ridiculous.
She knows it, but that card is played by her crowd and the leftists all the time who want open borders too.
It takes a little reading between the lines
That's called projecting, Tommy. Nice straw man.
That's called missing my point and quoting me out of context. If you must........
No, sorry Tommy. I admit I don't know this person or her position, perhaps you do and can back up your claim about her. But I expect a little bit better out of you. Your own words sounded like you were word parsing, so don't blame me for being skeptical of your statement. You should have backed up why you think she's that way.
Tommy trying to explain someone's motives:"It takes a little reading between the lines" and "open your eyes".
Tommy when people "read between the lines" regarding the Bush administration's linking of Iraq and al Qaeda:"If he never said it, then he never said it."
I meant to put a link in there, just so Tommy can't accuse me of taking him out of context (with any credibility, at least).
It takes a little reading between the lines, she pounces on the idiot Derbyshire for looking extreme, which he is - thereby positioning herself to look mainstream, which she is not. She is an open border advocate for cheap labor. Open your eyes. Tommy
Tommy, I think you just might be incorrect in you assessment on Ms. Lopez
http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/lopez200604260738.asp
To BASH him is to address the TOPIC. You dont mind if someone besides YOU decides what we talk about do you? The TOPIC is Derbyshire and his racist comments. We are not OBLIGATED to address what YOU see as the larger picture. You really need to get over yourself
Your argumentativeness is irrelevant. You know the exact point I was making. (gnat)
I honestly thought you made an honest mistake, attributing Derb's comments to Ms. Lopez, but from your comments above I see that you may be borderline delusional.
If you don't know the NRO's stance on open borders and exactly the "look away" attitude in what Ms. Lopez said, then you are the delusional one.
You went way out of your way to read indifference into Lopez's statement, while Derbyshire stated explicitly the very sentiment that you ascribed to Lopez. The difference of course is that Derbyshire doesn't care about their status because he wants all of them gone, illegal or not.
Indifference? I specifically opined on what I thought of her comments and it definitely was not" indifference".
Perhaps you'd better read it again....oh, never mind.
This is exactly what you wrote about Lopez: "Not surprising Ms. Lopez could care less about their immigration status, as she apparently does."
And just to save you some time, here's the definition of indifference: "Lack of interest or concern."
I know that the POINT you are making is irrelevant to the topic which is Derbyshire is a racist moron. YOU wont mind if we toss in just a couple of comments that just HAPPEN TO BE ON TOPIC DO YOU?
As Media Matters for America noted, in a September 20 [link to article.nationalreview.com] title="http://mediamatters.org/rd?[link to article.nationalreview.com] color="#0052a3">column headlined "Islamophobophobia," Derbyshire wrote that it would be wise to "deny entry to foreign Muslims" and "to expel ... resident foreign Muslims."
Maybe we'd be better off deporting John Derbyshire.....
Has BilldO been informed of this invasion? I caught some of The Factor last night and he seemed preoccupied with another invasion.In fact, the on-screen banner read "Progressive Invasion".
He was commenting on the drag queen nuns taking communion, which he presented as an example of what happens when S-Ps gain power.O'Reilly may need to fight on two fronts here,if the illegal immigrant drag queen nuns get organized.
¡¡¡ Tráeme mas te helado, Chingamadre ¡¡¡
Where was MMFA on reporting that one? Think of the fun we could have had today on that thread?
The remark was passed in a polite, diffident and non-condemnatory way -- of course! this is Iowa -- and when I tried to probe, people just retreated into niceness
Of course, thank god the people of Iowa have manners. Imagine wanting to have a discussion on a hot topic and not foaming at the mouth, rabid, nut job.
Derbyshire [link to corner.nationalreview.com] title="http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YmVjNDBkMjFlNzIxMDcwZTkyODY3OTIxYjI5ZWQ1NTY">replied: "I can't agree, Kathryn. Legal or illegal, this is asking for trouble," later adding, "If we must have mass immigration, can we please return to the fine old American tradition of taking people from (A) lots of different places, none of which are (B1) contiguous to our territory and (B2) make historical claims -- propagated, for instance, in their school textbooks -- on that territory?"
I thought the screaming and yelling was about ILLEGAL immigration. Guess not cause it sure sounds like legal or illegal you simply want to put a stop to how many 'brown' people are allowed to immigrate. "Let's go back to the fine old American tradition" means exactly what?
Pearlene -
If you're looking for ILLEGAL immigrants, look no further than our friend John Derbyshire:
http://www.olimu.com/Journalism/Texts/Commentary/Straggler03-IWasIllegalAlien.htm
Micha, what he means to say is, we have too many 'brown' people in the country, we need more 'white' people.
I say he should have to leave the country and not be able to return for 10 years, have to pay a fine as well as report that illegal income to the IRS and the employers who hired him should be fined.
Apparently, he is employed by National Review Online. They should definitely be fined for employing illegals. I wonder how many more they have over there? Hypocrites...
Maybe he meant "invasion" in a nice way.
According to the stats I found, my little town has their surnames mostly taken from the Dublin, London, Rome and Warsaw phone books. Interesting.
Now I've gotta admit I might not have expected a rural town in Iowa to have such a large % of Hispanics, but as long as they are LEGAL citizens, understand & speak some English [or are willing to learn]...what's this guys beef?
Now this is going to sound like I'm a simpleton [yeah yeah some of you already think so] but one of my favorite sitcoms is George Lopez's show. It's funny, & the entire main cast are Hispanic. And after awhile you just enjoy the show & don't even think about that. I think if more minorities were featured on TV, maybe folks would stop looking at them like outsiders. I know, simple...but a start.
Come on people now
smile on your brother
everybody get together
and try to love one another right now
I think if more minorities were featured on TV, maybe folks would stop looking at them like outsiders. I know, simple...but a start. Jeter
The dreaded 'Hollywood' that some conservatives love to hate started this sometime ago with shows like the Jefferson's and Cosby showing racial stereotypes (Good Times) of black America was incorrect. I'm not sure that George Lopez can do the trick but it sure can't hurt at this point.
I think you;re about to get slammed - good luck!
I think you;re about to get slammed - good luck!
Who and Why?
Jeter - Goerge Lopez's comedy is based on somewhat stereotypical humor. Though it looks like the crowd is going easy on him - so far.
No problems with George Lopez, here. The guys is a comedian, and a funny one at that. Comedians get more leeway than political types on issues such as racial stereotypes. That said, many of them will try and push the envelope as far as possible for shock value, but I always found George Lopez to be pretty tasteful.
Carlos Mencia, on the other hand... now that's just a bad comedian.
Now Mencia is just flat not funny at ALL. I dont know how the guy has a job.
Stereotypical humor? No more so than the lighthearted "Italian" humor on Everybody Loves Raymond.
Unless I'm missing something?
Um if you didn't know his last name was Barone you wouldn't even know they were Italian. Not many jokes on that show about meatballs and the mafia. The humor on that show was pretty neutral when it came to nationality.
Mook,
I'm Italian.
So "meatballs" & the "Mafia" is how you stereotype us Italians? Nice.
I watched every season of Everybody Loves Raymond, they went to Italy, Marie was always cooking Italian food. It wasn't the centerpiece of the show...but you knew the Barones were Italian!
If I were the stereotyping type I'd probably start stereotyping Italians by telling this classy little joke:
Q: Did you hear about the new Italian tires?
A: Da-go on land, da-go on snow, and when da-go flat, da-go wop! wop! wop!
That reminds me of my dad telling me about his Italian fraternity brother, very sensitive, got into fights about it a lot with other people. So his frat brothers decided to de-sensitize him to it. one of the jokes they told around him was:
What soud does a knife make when you throw it at a wall?
WOP! ginnyginnyginnyginnyginnyginnyginny...
No, meatballs and mafia is how Hollywood stereotypes Italians. Just like they stereotype my fellow Irish as fighting drunks with red noses. Marie also cooked turkey and ham and cheese sandwiches, not necesarily classic Italian staples. It's not like no other show has ever had a person that isn't Italian cooking Italian food.
Jeter - Goerge Lopez's comedy is based on somewhat stereotypical humor. Though it looks like the crowd is going easy on him - so far.WC4ME
George Lopez is the executive producer of the show. I don't always watch the show but from what I see, Lopez's charter has moved up the ladder career wise and the show reflects all things related to that, his family and his Hispanic culture. What better person to add humor to stupid Hispanic stereotypes?
I dont find him funny, but I didnt find him offensive when I gave his show a shot.
"It's funny, & the entire main cast are Hispanic. And after awhile you just enjoy the show & don't even think about that.
Yes and if you ever go to a restaurant in Spanish Harlem you won't find anyone yelling "Get me an iced tea motherf*cker" either.
Hey, if Coulter can try to use Seinfeld to justify here views of mixed race couples why shouldn't get our views about Latinos from TV too.
¡¡¡ Tráeme mas te helado, Chingamadre ¡¡¡
Jeter2.
Your comment about not even thinking about the race of the George Lopez Show's cast reminds me of O'Reilly's comments from last month. Yeah, if you get to know "Hispanics" you will see that they are regular people just like you. What the heck do white people think Mexicans are, aliens? If you only knew how close to "real Americans" many of us are, you'd probably be very pleased. In a neo-colonialist-Masters-of-the-Universe kind of way.
Many in the US would be suprised to know that Mexico, while not as wealthy as the United States, is a modern country that is not as disfunctional as many want to believe. Mexico city is full of Modern skyscrapers, shopping malls and an incredible metro system. A lot of those blowing smoke think its either one big ghetto or a lot of guys riding donkeys. they go to cancun or TJ and think they know the place.
I agree with that, but I wonder why are so many mexicans trying to enter this country illegally?
What is your take on that?
God, leave it to someone to misinterpret what I meant.
brpinedo, sorry if I offended you..
One can't help but notice the cast is Hispanic...but that fact isn't what one focuses on or cares about...it's the comedy. Another words they are a typical sitcom family that happens to be Hispanic. Like you knew the Barones [Everybody Loves Raymond] were Italian.
No one accused you of anything. He just said that "it sounds like". A rather civilized reply.
I'd like to believe that, Jeter, but The jeffersons, Sanford and Son, and the fresh prince of bellaire started back in the 70's or 80's, and from what I've seen recently I can't say that helped improve the relationships between black and white america.
Yeah but George and Weezie sure were funny.
Love is but a song we sing. Nice use of Youngbloods lyrics there Jeter. I would have thought you a bit young for them. As for more mainstream portrayals of minorities in film and TV? It might be a good start. It is happening more than in the 70s but man isnt it a slow process?
John Derbyshire is an admitted illegal alien. He 'invaded' our country and overstayed his work visa by 5 years. This hypocrite needs to be jailed or deported.
It's like OJ Simpson protesting violence against women.
But he's white, so it's okay.
As was stated so elloquently by some one else:
To Derby:
Zing!
Derbyshire is an admitted racist. Small wonder he is so concerned about Hispanic names appearing along Swedish or German ones. He doesn't care if they're legal or not, just that they're brown.
Hmmph, me have council with chiefs at riverbank -- they come where sun rise -- I hear talk of this land, young braves hunt among white man in numbers as great as theirs. Braves speak of good -- please Gods! This land gift from Gods -- me try provoke, braves no complain ("fire water heap tasty")
Me no understand, share buffalo with Sitting Bear and Loud Crow. Me sit, see smoke signals, say "hunters at river bank", show percentages of whiteman as:
Me think soon buffalo no return. Why we no form war party?
"Why on earth are we letting this happen?" We have a huge statue in New York harbour facing the Atlantic that says "Send us your weak, hungry, downtroden yada yada yada" We are all immigrants or descended from immigrants (almost), we know there is some reform to be done regarding illegal immigrants from the southern border, but our compassion and respect for the self sacrifice of these people makes us proud to help them make a better life for themselves and their families.
Pit, here comes the truckload of "but-the-storybook-immigrants-of-the-imagined-"good-old"-past-waited-in-line-to-get-in! These swarthy Mexicans...!"
Don't worry, I'm part Irish and can wrassle with the slipperiest of hogs.
Wow, this guy must be REALLY bad. We haven't even had one conservative poster come to his defense in the comments. Looks like you can't defend the indefensible.
Now, how does a website like NRO get away with employing a cretin like this? Somebody really needs to call them out on that. Is there someone we can write?
You've had one.
John Derbyshire frequently uses his position at the NR to write about the importance of Race in America (i.e, whites superior, blacks & brownes inferior.) He often links to and praises STEVE SAILER in his articles and Corner posts. Go ahead and read through his output and you will notice a startling consistency in his obsession with race and the 'genetic' shortcomings of dark people.
I said that he is a fan of Steve Sailer, and though I can't prove it beyond doubt, he posts in Sailer's comment section. For instance, recently someone named "JD" said the following of black people:
"Personally, if I were in America and if an incident like this had popped up, as a newcomer I'd just STFU since I'd consider it none of my business how native whites and native blacks settled their scores -- the umpteenth time -- centuries after native whites have made that great, unforgivable mistake against Africans. Which was bringing them to America, consequences be damned. (No, not taking them as slaves, that's what everybody did, and still do, in many parts of Africa and the Arabian peninsula.)"
The context is the Jenna six incident. JD goes on:
"Which is the racial giveaway: the black fellows most probably failed to terminate their action because of typically black-related reasons:. lack of impulse control;. not caring a twit about the consequences of what they were doing since they all were betting (knowing?) that the rigged legal "system" was going to side with them.(This second one may be a generous estimate. It may just be that they are, as usual -- as the recent O.J. incident showed one more freakin' tiresome time again --, simply incapable of calculating "consequences." They live like Sartre's existentialists: only the HERE-AND-NOW exists, all else is illusory. Which may be why they are amazed that they are jailed at all. You see, that part is happening in the future, which, as we all know, is practically a "bourgeois social construct.")"
This is the person we're dealing with here. He can plausibly deny the above quotes as being from someone else who incidentally happened to sign their posts with "JD" but the style is a dead give away.
Do you want more John Derbyshire? Consider this article of his from back in January in which he expresses SHOCK that people react negatively to his racism:
"The exquisite sensitivity of Americans in these matters causes no end of misunderstanding and bad feelings, as the William Cash episode shows. I am sorry to say that it often makes Americans look like hypocrites to foreigners, making rather a mockery of all our pretensions to moral superiority. House hunting in the New York suburbs in 1992, my (Chinese-born) wife and I were once sitting in the office of a realtor, an American lady, trying to spell out just what we were looking for. We had no kids at the time, but were moving to the burbs precisely to raise a family. Well, chatting with the realtor, I said that of course we wanted to be in a good school system, one with not too many black kids. The realtor’s reaction was similar to the one described by P.G. Wodehouse when he wrote: “Ice formed on the butler’s upper slopes.” "
Media Matters has ignored him too long.
Yes my friends this is what all this invasion talk is about. Hysteria! The right wing wants another wedge issue to put the working class swing voters into a frenzy so they vote republican. The whole premise of the article is that we are being invaded by these scary neighbors of ours. Obviously this is no time for all us have nots to come together and focus on what is really wrong with our country. Before it was atheist hippy abortionist or something. Now it’s the sneaky guy that might be cleaning your toilet, operating a small business or working mid level management with kids in college.
Notice the complete lack of faith in our country. We are mostly a nation of immigrants yet we are somehow about to collapse because global capitalist labor markets are taking in people who are not that culturally that different from us. Whatever challenges immigration poses, the fear that Mexico is about to annex Iowa, that the English language is toast or that illegal aliens are now immune from all criminal prosecution does nothing but throw smoke at the situation at hand and makes it convenient to scapegoat later when the big mess our leaders have made become realized.
Before some troll replies that I want open borders or illegal aliens to get free crack cocaine, a blond mistress and mandatory luxury retirement at age 25, please note that while a whole host of demagogues will fixate on this and poo poo such real issues as global warming, peak oil, corruption in the financial industry and our morally bankrupt, arrogant and disastrous foreign policy.
At the very least our media can give us an honest debate about immigration and not hour long distorted paranoid rants with no rebuttal or fact checking. Thankfully this website can document and point out the ridiculous arguements that pass for honest and informative discourse among the gullible.
And here's how they fight anybody who dares to speak out against this administration's race baiting policies - they make midnight raids against immigrants!
I find it interesting that this has become a mega big issue among the conservative media at the same time that a lot of there other pet issues (iraq, economy...) have soured.
there is nothing wrong with debating immigration but so much of the heated rhetoric is off the charts, indicating that the backlash will serve its purpose.
La ignorancia de nuestra sociedad me hace muy triste, sabiendo que mis hermanos hispanos son tratados como mierda cada dia. Estudien su historia y reconozcan la verdad.
¡¡¡ Y Tráeme mas te helado, Chingamadre ¡¡¡
Isn't anybody going to correct my grammar?
Your grammar is too scary. She'd probably put a heinous curse on anyone who'd try to correct her.
"Traeme mas te con hielo, hijo de tu chingada madre." OR "Treame mas te con hielo, pendejo/cabron/guey/ hijo de puta." Pick your poison, it's all about the same and I'm sure a LOT of people wouldn't be able to "get over" the fact that not all Hispanics talk like this.
No, not treated like crap everyday. That is also a fallacy, and a generalization.
The problem with immigration within the Republican party is you have problems with their two bases: the rich employers and the gun-toting rednecks.
The Rich: Guest worker program! We just want to exploit them! Cheap labor!
Rednecks: I don't want no brown people here! I want a fence, with a moat, and an alligator! Deport them after you arrest and torture them!
[link to www.youtube.com]
17 1/2 yearsago I bought my house (A lovely 1890's vintage place) in an area that was and is heavily Hispanic. And I have to report that Hispanics are some of the most wonderful neighbors you could ask for. Friendly, open, helpful--they are proud of their families and of their inherent dignity as human beings, annd confer thst on you yoo.
We could do a lot worse than these people to add to the community that is America.
A few years ago I had to have my roof replaced: a tear-off, and it cost a fortune. On the recommendation ofmany, I chose an Hispanic firm. They did a splendid job--but one thing was startling: though the owners were Hispanic, all their workers were illegal Slovaks. (I speak Slovak.)
You can get all shirty about breaking the law--but there is no legal way for an unskilled laborer from Mexicoto come to America. None. You tell them to come back and apply legally, and the INS will just say no.
That is not fair and it is not right. If there were a legal program whereby Mexican and Latin American workers could come to this country, I would feel differently. But there isn't.
You know what will happen if we allow more and more of 'these people' into America? The quality of the food will go up.
"You can get all shirty about breaking the law--but there is no legal way for an unskilled laborer from Mexicoto come to America. None. You tell them to come back and apply legally, and the INS will just say no."
That is such an excellent point - I'm always wondering why no one brings up in all these immigration debates just how feasible it would be for most Mexican immigrants to come here legally. My understanding is that it is very limited - in other words, telling these immigrants to wait their turn is tantamount to telling them to go home and never come back.
It may not be fair but SO WHAT? Life is supposed to be fair?
How bout this for unfair...Their own country, with more then enough resources to support it's own population can't do so! So we have to!
Is that fair? I wonder if Mexico or any other country for that matter, would allow the reverse to occur? But we already know the answer to that don't we?
Aren't these people descendants of the Spaniards who found America? They've been in the Americas a lot longer than John Derbyshire's family.
I commend an article I read yesterday by Maria Elena Salinas. She looks at some recent punative actions against "illegal imigrants" and how they've worked out.
Riverside N.J. was on the forfront of this. Today businesses are closing, some businesses cannot find enough workers. It was estimated that half of its 8,000 population were undocumented workers.
Colorado is losing this population, in some quarters a good thing. In agriculture half of the population of workers is gone. The Colorado Farm Bureau sees a lose of 60 Mill in the next two years as a result of this.
erp....don't worry, with the government's spending, all those jobs will be filled soon with people everywhere looking for any kind of income...heh.
[sarcasm on]
perhaps some "Poor" can take those jobs so they can get "healthcare".........
[sarcasm off]
I like how the xenophobes frame their arguments by saying all the undocumented immigrants "came here illegally, and so the first thing they did when they came here was break our laws." Some of the people who are undocumented are that way because even though they were here legally at first, the paperwork to allow them to stay has been lost or caught in some other sort of red tape. But that doesn't make any difference to these people. Send em back they say!!!
Pathetic, to be so afraid of everyone who's different from you. As a lifetime (Anglo) New Mexican, it has been my PRIVILEGE to live where the ethnicities (Anglo, Hispanic and Native American) are evenly divided, or minority Anglo. How boring it must be to live amongst only one's own "kind".
Speaking of Native American - that Derbyshire person would probably advocate completion of the extermination of them; talk about having a "historical claim on... territory"!!
Any American whos familiy migrated to this country, which is basically every American, has a right to be angry about the boom in the Hispanic population due to our open borders. I've never seen this in any other country. Canada would not allow this. England, France, Germany, none of these countries would allow this. My problem is the hatred that comes to light for people of a different ethnic background because of how strongly people feel. Everyone has a right to seek a better life. The culprit is not the Mexicans and other Hispanics seeking the American Dream. The culprits are the Mexican government that does not do enough to curbtail this behavior on their side and the American government that is too busy "playing politics" to come up with a real solution.
Well, let the xenophobic and racist charges begin but I :A) fail to see any misinformation here unless his stats are incorrect and B) the word "invasion" may or may not be the "best" word to use but his point is a good one.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. If i wanted to live in Mexico, South America, or wherever then THAT"S WHERE I"D LIVE!
And keeping out foreign Muslims is a bad idea? If you say so...