Without defining them, Wash. Post asserted Brownback "talk[ed] about Christian values"
In an October 20 article, Washington Post staff writer Michael D. Shear wrote that Sen. Sam Brownback's (KS) departure from the Republican presidential race "was a disappointment to many" at the Family Research Council-organized "Values Voter Summit," adding, "Brownback had spent much of his campaign talking about Christian values and stressing his stance against abortion." But Shear did not explain what the term "Christian values" meant or how it related to Brownback's campaign. Indeed, other candidates -- Republican or Democrat -- might define "Christian values" differently than Brownback does.
In a December 14, 2005, article, Post staff writers Jonathan Weisman and Alan Cooperman noted that there are differences within the Christian faith as to what "Christian values" translate into in terms of political advocacy:
When hundreds of religious activists try to get arrested today to protest cutting programs for the poor, prominent conservatives such as James Dobson, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell will not be among them.
That is a great relief to Republican leaders, who have dismissed the burgeoning protests as the work of liberals. But it raises the question: Why in recent years have conservative Christians asserted their influence on efforts to relieve Third World debt, AIDS in Africa, strife in Sudan and international sex trafficking -- but remained on the sidelines while liberal Christians protest domestic spending cuts?
Conservative Christian groups such as Focus on the Family say it is a matter of priorities, and their priorities are abortion, same-sex marriage and seating judges who will back their position against those practices.
"It's not a question of the poor not being important or that meeting their needs is not important," said Paul Hetrick, a spokesman for Focus on the Family, Dobson's influential, Colorado-based Christian organization. "But whether or not a baby is killed in the seventh or eighth month of pregnancy, that is less important than help for the poor? We would respectfully disagree with that."
Jim Wallis, editor of the liberal Christian journal Sojourners and an organizer of today's protest, was not buying it. Such conservative religious leaders "have agreed to support cutting food stamps for poor people if Republicans support them on judicial nominees," he said. "They are trading the lives of poor people for their agenda. They're being, and this is the worst insult, unbiblical."
[...]
Tony Perkins, president of the conservative Family Research Council, said the government's role should be to encourage charitable giving, perhaps through tax cuts.
"There is a [biblical] mandate to take care of the poor. There is no dispute of that fact," he said. "But it does not say government should do it. That's a shifting of responsibility."
Shear's use of the phrase "Christian values" recalls the Post and other media outlets' uncritical use of the term "values voters," which Media Matters for America has extensively documented (here, here, here, and here).
From Shear's October 20 Washington Post article:
Brownback pulled the plug on his presidential bid in Topeka, citing difficulty raising money and saying, "My yellow brick road came just short of the White House this time."
Brownback had captured only a few percentage points in most national polls and finished third in Iowa's straw poll this summer, despite campaigning across the state and pouring resources into winning Iowa's evangelical vote.
He officially withdrew after reporting recently that his campaign had $94,000 in cash. "We're out of money," he told reporters.
Brownback was elected to the Senate in 1996 when Robert J. Dole resigned the seat to run for president. He won two full terms in 1998 and 2004. Political observers in Kansas expect that he will seek the governor's office in 2010.
His departure from the race was a disappointment to many here who said they voted for him in the straw poll. Brownback had spent much of his campaign talking about Christian values and stressing his stance against abortion.
"Personally, I always thought that Sam Brownback held the closest, totally consistent views," said John Jakubczyk, a lawyer and past president of Arizona Right to Life.
"Biblical values", in its broadest sense, means not willfully violating God's Commandments. So things such as being a drunken liar (like Randi Rhodes - who is both a stumbling drunk and a liar), or making false allegations (like the recent smear campaign against Limbaugh by MMFA), or stealing (the way "Err" America Radio robbed that Boys and Girls Club in New York) are clear violations of "Biblical Values". Of course, the most recent example of violating "Biblical Values" was the case where Waldman called HRC a liar on the Tucker Carlson program. (Obviously, either Waldman or HRC was violating Christian value.
By the way, I haven't seen much of Waldman since that appearance on Tucker Carlson's program. I'm not insinuating anything, but there are consequences for violating Biblical values my friends.
how did mmfa smear limbaugh?
By posting an unedited audio clip of his radio program.
BibbyBob sounds an awful lot like El Strango on the other thread. Hmmmn. The "err" America and Randi Rhodes references and all. I don't think Randi is an alcoholic, but she does like her beer. In any case Bibby and Strango suffer from the dread con disease dittobitess.
Obviously Bibby Bob doesn't actually know any biblical values. I hope he doesn't covet any woodland creatures at Disney.
Maybe disneyland is codeword for six flags? This sure sounds like him...
Billiybob is pretty ballsy for talking about Biblical values.Starting with those seven deadlies;
Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.
BJ has consistently shown an inflated confidence in his own talents, despite being humiliated on a regular basis here, and being an admitted liar.
Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.
Evident when his argument is destroyed by other, more capable posters here, and he's reduced to pasting "cackle cackle,etc."
Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.
Applies to space on this website and punishment.
Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.
Longing for Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity - that ain't normal.
Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.
See above references focusing hate on non-Republicans, while ignoring the desecration of Biblical principles done daily by his comrades.
Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.
Furious at the idea of providing health care to fellow Americans, if part of his taxes might go toward that cause.
Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.
OK, I don't know about the physical work. Billiybob may flip heavy burgers every day, but there is a lack of spiritual work required to be a Rush Limbaugh fan. Sloth in the area of mental work is demonstrated in every post of our poor Billiybob.
I don't feel it's necessary to go through all 10 commandments, but Billiybob has scored in these areas;
Posting on the Sabbath
Stealing time from those who read his comments
Bearing false witness (phony soldiers story, too many others to list)
Coveting his neighbor's wife.Assuming Ann Coulter and Satan are legally wed.
and murdering logic.
HBL:
This thread is about BROWNBACK talking about "Christian Values" for the GOP side, and now he's GONE from the fold. Quit, cut and ran, gave up, had no faith.
Billiy has to be hurting today. One of the premier GOD REPRESENTATIVES for the Republicans has fallen by the wayside, REJECTED in his own party's primary battle. No "onward Christian soldier" for Brownback.
Adding Christian Insult to Moral Injury, the frontrunner is still thrice-married, pro-gay, pro-abortion Rudy Giulianni. The GOP seems to have abandoned GOD, and embraced sin and warmongering ... Satan's recipe.
So Billiy is hurting today. Billiy is obviously a person who strives every day to be more Christ-like ... more loving and nonjudgmental, more empathetic to the suffering of others and willing to help, more willing to sacrifice personal possessions for the sake of others, realising that MONEY will not gain the kingdom of God.
Well, true, that doesn't sound like our Billiy, but he DOES claim (falsely) to be a Christian, so the loss of Brownback must be a horrible blow (no pun about Craig intended).
So, cut Billiy some slack. It's not the person talking, it's the PAIN.
Don't forget Rudy hates guns, and that makes baby Jesus cry.
HBK, nice post. I think it could also be used for any number of threads about some of our favorite righty pundits, radiocons and other GOP rascals.
I know you aren't really interested in doing anything other than spreading your propoganda and lies, but how about adressing the actual content of the article?
Let's see: Randi Rhodes, Hillary, Limbaugh, Air America, Tucker Carlson.
Yep, it's another worthless, subject-changing Billiy the Troll post.
"subject changing"???
We were talking about 'biblical values'... I think I managed to address the topic pretty directly. Anyway, I would love to spend more time today addressing more posts, but I'm off to Disneyland with my wife.
Bet you'll spend most of your time in fantasyland; which should be in your comfort zone.
No you didnt. YOU are a liar. You spewed LIES and tried to take the thread off topic which isnt HOW MANY HIVEMIND LIES CAN YOU REGURGITATE IN ONE POST?
If you want to discuss biblical values, how about posting some proof of Randi Rhodes being an alcoholic? Lying is against biblical values too, but that doesn't seem to bother you, unless this is just another case of a false christian spouting off. I mean, there appears to be something there. I'm just sayin...
Oh, BJ? Most christians spend all day sunday going to church and serving the lord. You, well Disneyland on Sunday? I'm just sayin...
"but I'm off to Disneyland with my wife.'
A lucky gal.
'Honey, I called Hillary a "b*tch" today. But I pretended I was a woman when I said it.'
Anyway, I would love to spend more time today addressing more posts, but I'm off to Disneyland with my wife.
We'll all check the news later today, to see if there are any reports of a crazed madman going berserk at Disneyland.....
:-)
Billy Bob
You said this
(like the recent smear campaign against Limbaugh by MMFA)
If you feel reporting how Limbaugh called our troops "phony" or threatened a child a smear campaign, I would like to hear more about why you feel that way? Was Limbaugh taken out of context? AS Bill OReilly says "what say you " Billybob.
Biblical values", in its broadest sense, means not willfully violating God's Commandments. So things such as being a drunken liar (like Randi Rhodes - who is both a stumbling drunk and a liar), or making false allegations (like the recent smear campaign against Limbaugh by MMFA) I'm not insinuating anything, but there are consequences for violating Biblical values my friends. Billybob
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
Might want to re-read a one of those 'commandments'
Biblical values like trying to wedge the country over some of its people (gay issues)? What about starting wars? So, drunken liars are ok to be President, but not talk-show hosts? What about those who would criticize those groups who they are a part of (Rush)? Is that Christian?
You are a liar and a fool. If Christian values have anything to do with NOT LYING then you have violated them. I dont know about Rhodes but I DO know Air America didnt STEAL anything, YOU are a liar and a fool. You only come in here to tell lies, drag threads off topic like the troll you are and regurgitate the long ago debunked undead talking points that the HIVEMIND told you to beleive. You are pathetic and ignorant. Do the world a favor and give yourself a vascectomy with a pair of rusty wirecutters and save the gene pool from the pollution of your abject stupidity and ignorance. Stop lying and dont forget that little chore with the rusty wirecutters
Since you keep bringing up Randi, I'm quite curious on how well you know her...
Rhodes enlisted in the United States Air Force in 1977 and worked stateside as a mechanic in Texas, achieving the rank of Airman First Class. She left the Air Force early and relocated to Ohio, where she participated in a program called Palace Chase to release her to the reserves and honorably discharge her. Although she left active duty before her contract was up, she still received an honorable discharge after completing the program.
Wow, a soldier. Why do you hate our troops?
She is a leading activist for accountability and standards in the media, and has spoken at congressional hearings about creating a framework of national standards for what can be labelled news. She frequently tells her listeners to never trust anyone they hear on the radio, not even herself. She tells her audience to do their own research after hearing supposed facts on the air.
Ouch, ethics too. That must be a sore point for you reichies...
On Sunday, October 14, 2007, Rhodes was walking her dog when she fell and sustained injuries that kept her off the air for several days. Air America host Jon Elliott erroneously claimed on his October 15 show that Rhodes had been the victim of a savage mugging. Elliott went on to speculate that this was perhaps not just a random event, and that it may have been politically motivated by conservative right wing factions.[10] Left wing blogs and websites like DemocraticUnderground.com ran with the initial false story, speculating it was a deliberate attack by right wing extremists.[11] A lawyer for Rhodes subsequently confirmed that the incident was an accident and no crime had taken place. At no point did Rhodes herself falsely claim to have been attacked.[12] Rhodes did not file a report with the police.[13] Nor was there a record of her calling an ambulance to be taken to a hospital.[14] The New York Post suggested that this lent credence to the notion that Rhodes fell after drinking 14 Bloody Mary's at a Midtown Irish pub.[15]
Oh Well, guess I now know where you pulled your "facts" from. Sux to be you, wrongoloid!
I couldn't leave it alone. I decided to check out the "fact" reichwingers keep refering to when they claim Randi spent the day getting drunk in an Irish bar and fell down drunk (resulting in said accident that they claim she then tried to cover up by blaming right wing attackers) and every single site I went to, from Red State to the anti-idiotarian rottweiler links their "fact" to a poster posting at Gawker.com. Wow, an individual who wasn't even there providing proof to the reich wing! I've never seen that happen before! </sarcasm>
Randi also raised her sister's daughter as her own after her sister died of cancer. She is one righteous babe no matter how you define righteous.
Biblical values?
Isn't there something in God's commandements about taking the Lord's name in vain? It appears to me that every time right wing religious nut jobs asscoiate Christianity with politics they are violating that commandment. I'll bet God cringes every time a right wing nut case calls himself a Christian.
There was an article in my local paper a few months ago (Greenville, SC) talking about Sam Brownback, talking about how he wanted to "redo the culture." Some people started calling him "Sam Brownshirt," and it caught on. Not one conservative stepped up to defend his remark on the newspaper's discussion boards.
Sam "Brownshirt" never had a chance, not even here in conservative Greenville, SC. Bottom line: he scared people. He even scared conservatives, apparently.
You wouldn't know Biblical values if they whacked you in the face.
You seem to be well acquainted with the ways of the Pharisees though, being one yourself. You'd hate Jesus if you met him.
Maybe Gideon's should pay a visit to MMFA HQ so MMFA is not so confused on this one.
Maybe the Reading is Fundamental van ought to visit YOUR HOUSE so you wont be so CONFUSED.
Well, Brownback did talk a lot about attacking Iran, so maybe that's what Shear means by "Christian values."
You're right, Clams.
I think Sam wants to smite Iran. He's an Old Testament kind of guy. None of that, pansy, turning the other cheek stuff that you'll find in the New Testament.
Thank God we can still smite our enemies.
And just think...the sooner we pull the trigger on Iran, the sooner Jeeeezzzzuuuuusssss can come back. Isn't that what these warmongering neanderthals are working toward... really?
And if he ever did come back, I'm sure he'd keep his distance from these bedwetters who call themselves his followers.
So Christians protesting cuts in government aid to poor families is the work of liberals? First I say good, for on those Christian liberals. Second, I would wonder aloud why Focus on the family would want representatives in government who merely espouse their care for the poor instead of demonstrating that care through programs that uplift the down and out.
But I wouldn't wonder too long once I pondered all those millions of tax dollars that are diverted from essential government programs to the office of faith based initiatives.
Cynical?
And Roundhouse, this item isn't about anyone practicing Christian values, just talking about them.
I caught a bit of the Republican "debates" tonight.I'm not saying the Democratic debates weren't empty, but the GOP model was pretty interesting.
Essentially a pissing match about who was the most conservative. No discussion of the merits of their positions, or exposition of why these positions were right, just a bunch of old Honkies whining at each other that they were more conservative than the other guy.
I guess the positions are settled, it's only about who has done the least thinking about those positions.
Oh oh, another child speaks her own mind about Bush. Rush and the right smear coming in 3... 2... 1...
Why are people so preoccupied with so-called Christian values? What does that have to do with a non-theocratic form of government? Why is it that Constitutional values are not of primary concern? The priorities in this country are all screwed up.
Agreed. Focus on the Fambly and the Christian Coalition are all about political power, not promoting the spirit of the man called Jesus. The problem for these activist groups is that feeding the poor and comforting the sick don't generate the kind of outrage and fear that Gay Marriage and Abortion do. Since they need outrage and fear to maintain the vast fortunes they now command, they've opted for the easy topics.
I, too, would like to see them concentrate more on the values embodied in our Constitution. They could start by returning to the original Presidential oath of office, as it is written. The words "So help me God" are NOT in the Constitution.
I think a big part of the problem is the notion by a lot of conservatives that this is Christian nation, which has resulted in the fusion of religion and politics. They are now so intertwined that it is impossible for some people to refer to one without mentioning the other.
Sadly some people think that being a Christian means being Republican.
The notion of this "Christian nation" also means for some that whatever the US Government does (even starting an unprovoked war) can not be wrong (specially when done by republicans)... after all this a Christian nation and God is on our side. I know this is not what all Christians or even conservatives think; but some in those powerful christian organizations have so many political ties that they really are promoting a political agenda rather than a true Christian life style.
So unfortunate.How true. What we see is the result of a very expensive, long-running marketing effort by the Republican spin machine. In essence, the Country Club/Corporate Welfare Republicans are playing the "values voters" for suckers. It's the classic Carrot on a stick strategy...they hold the carrot of enacting the Christofascist regressive agenda, and the knuckledraggers witlessly carry them into power with their Pavlovian votes. It's absolutely pathetic.
Im curious about this statement:
"There is a [biblical] mandate to take care of the poor. There is no dispute of that fact," he said. "But it does not say government should do it. That's a shifting of responsibility."
Lets say in an alternate reality all government programs for the poor are done away with, and the christians are estatic of course. Do you suppose that the churches will take over the feeding of or the medical needs of the poor?
I think the churches and the christians will NOT give aid because they will turn their snippity little noses up and say you caused it yourself by making bad choices. Now starve. or die from lack of medical care. They continuously cry about government programs but the "little" good they do in THIS country is nothing compared to the numbers of poor and in need in this country. Food stamps are depended upon for basic food stuffs for many poor in this county, I know this for a fact, I worked for several years in Health and Rehabilitative Services in Florida. I think the shifting of "christian care" which is a hostage situation for non-believers and people of other religions, to the government programs were NEEDED and I hope they never go away.
What scenarios do you see should government funding be cut or discontinued in this country.?
You're right, of course....the name "Dickens" comes to mind. How many times have we seen posts on this very site insisting that people are poor because of "bad decisions" or "immoral behavior"?
The Christofascists are so busy trying to cram God into the Constitution that they fail to notice that documents first words..."We the People...".
Imperfect and corrupt as it is...the government IS us, and is meant to do our will by proxy.
""There is a [biblical] mandate to take care of the poor. There is no dispute of that fact," he said. "But it does not say government should do it. That's a shifting of responsibility.""
Talk about shifting responsibility! The Bible also does not say the government shouldn't do it. It mandates Christians to care for the poor and the ill...it doesn't say HOW that should be done. Whatever WORKS!
Actually Levitican law which basically WAS government to the Ancient Israelis said a farmer should leave some of his crop for gleaning for the poor. I would say the bible pretty much DOES say the government ought to provide for the poor. Also Jeremiah says
They do not argue the case of the fatherless to win it, they do not defend the rights of the poor.
Shall I not punish these people. On such a nation as this should I not avenge myself
Now to me that pretty much says it IS the nations obligation to defend the rights of the poor, that the nation itself is held responsible for not doing so. I say a strong argument can be made that we ARE talking about a government obligation.
""There is a [biblical] mandate to take care of the poor. There is no dispute of that fact," he said. "But it does not say government should do it. That's a shifting of responsibility.""
What a load! If the christian value of "feeding the poor" should not be part of government's role, then why the heck should it be the government's job to prevent abortions or stop gay marriage? You can't have it both ways, and when it comes to applying broad principals to your political pilosohpy you can't pick and and choose! Real christians, of which I've met very few in my extrensive travels, don't abandon Christ's teachings when they become personally or politically inconvenient.
If "christian values" are meant to be a part of the government (a highly debatable point) then "tak(ing) care of the poor" must be at the top of our governbement's priorities. Otherwise stop trying to frame constituional issues in religious frameworks!!!
Well said, Eddie. I have often marveled at the fact that Puddinhead George named Jesus as his favorite "political philosopher" in a debate...yet, his policies don't reflect that in any way.
Well, that is, unless you count his pandering to the fascists on the Religious Right...but, somehow, I don't think that is "what Jesus would do".
I have plenty of Jewish and Atheist friends who would be stunned to learn that Feeding the Poor is a "Christian Value." I'm pretty sure that they, like me, just assumed it was a Human Value.
LOL! Fantastic Point!
You are absolutely correct, of course, Chrstians hardly have a monopoly on charity.
And the loudest amoung them hardly have any cedentials at all in that area!!! (I gave at the office.) :)
But no. Jesus was not the only religious figure that preached the virtues of mercy and charity.
BUT - if a candidate is going to use Jesus as a political tool, which should come as highly offenseive to any true christian anyway, they should at least have the decency to take his message in it's entireity and not cherry pick from his teachings, giving weight only to those that can be misiterpreted, o taken out of context, :) to support their own personal agenda.
And your point is that Christians have no right to speak up, no right of advocacy, no right to express themselves in public.
That seems to me to be rather narrow. We are silent at our own peril. Recall Niemoller's words:
In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me and by that time no one was left to speak up.