Sammon and Kondracke blamed state and local governments for Katrina response in Louisiana
SUMMARY: During the "All-Star Panel" segment on Special Report, the Washington Examiner's Bill Sammon and Roll Call's Mort Kondracke blamed the Louisiana state and local governments for their handling of Hurricane Katrina while excusing or ignoring the failures of the federal government. Sammon concluded that "to the extent that anybody failed [during Katrina], I think it was state and local, and in this case [the California wildfires], the state and locals have stepped up." However, two congressional reports -- while not excusing the state and local governments -- extensively detailed the federal government's failures in its preparation for and response to Katrina.
During the "All-Star Panel" segment on the October 24 edition of Fox News' Special Report, Washington Examiner senior White House correspondent Bill Sammon and Roll Call executive editor Morton M. Kondracke blamed the Louisiana state and local governments for their handling of Hurricane Katrina while excusing or ignoring the failures of the federal government. Discussing the response to the wildfires in Southern California, Sammon asserted that, unlike in California, "[Louisiana] Governor [Kathleen] Blanco, [New Orleans] Mayor [Ray] Nagin fell to pieces when Katrina hit, and therefore, the burden shifted to the feds. And the feds were never set up to be the first responders in natural disasters, so they looked bad." Similarly, after syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer asserted that "Democrats are always looking for a way of blaming [a disaster] on the [Bush] administration or on policy," Sammon claimed that "they did it in Katrina, and they found a way to blame [President] Bush, and that has now become shorthand, that Katrina was Bush's screw up, when, in reality, the lion's share of the blame really does rest with the local and the state officials." Kondracke later noted that "the federal response ... as various investigators have shown, was inadequate in the case of Katrina," adding, "But Katrina was a much bigger disaster than this is. I mean, you know, a whole city got wiped out, and nobody could have adequately responded to it." He then concluded: "But to the extent that anybody failed, I think it was state and local, and in this case [the California wildfires], the state and locals have stepped up."
While the Fox panel's focus on state and local governments echoes the Bush administration's reported post-Katrina public relations strategy of shifting blame for the response to state and local officials, two congressional reports extensively detailed the federal government's failures in its preparation for and response to Katrina, as well as failures at the state and local level. The Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs issued a report in May 2006, detailing failures by the federal, state, and local governments. Among its findings:
28. [The Department of Homeland Security] DHS, the agency charged with preparing for and responding to domestic incidents, whether terrorist attacks or natural disasters, failed to effectively lead the federal response to Hurricane Katrina.
29. In advance of landfall, [DHS] Secretary [Michael] Chertoff failed to make ready the full range of federal assets pursuant to DHS's responsibilities under the National Response Plan (NRP).
30. DHS leaders failed to bring a sense of urgency to the federal government's preparation for Hurricane Katrina.
31. Secretary Chertoff failed to appoint a Principal Federal Official (PFO), the official charged with overseeing the federal response under the NRP, until 36 hours after landfall.
[...]
34. Secretary Chertoff appointed a field commander, Michael Brown, who was hostile to the federal government's agreed-upon response plan and therefore was unlikely to perform effectively in accordance with its principles. Some of Secretary Chertoff 's top advisors were aware of these issues but Secretary Chertoff has indicated that he was not. Secretary Chertoff should have known of these problems and, as a result, should have appointed someone other than Brown as Principal Federal Official.
35. Although the Hurricane Pam exercise, among other things, put FEMA [The Federal Emergency Management Agency] on notice that a storm of Katrina's magnitude could have catastrophic impact on New Orleans, Michael Brown and FEMA leadership failed to do the necessary planning and preparations:
a. to train or equip agency personnel for the likely needed operations;
b. to adequately prearrange contracts to transport necessary commodities;
c. to pre-position appropriate communications assets; or
d. to consult with DOD regarding back-up capability in the event a catastrophe materialized, among other deficiencies.
The Senate committee's report also stated that "the White House shares responsibility for the inadequate pre-landfall preparation." The committee wrote that while the president "did take the initiative to personally call Governor Blanco to urge a mandatory evacuation" and "took the unusual step of declaring an emergency in the Gulf States prior to Katrina making landfall," he also "did not leave his Texas ranch to return to Washington until two days after landfall, and only then convened his Cabinet as well as a White House task force to oversee federal response efforts."
Similarly, as Media Matters for America noted, the House Select Bipartisan Committee to Investigate the Preparation for and Response to Hurricane Katrina, which released its final report on February 15, 2006, found that "critical elements of the National Response Plan," for which Chertoff was responsible, "were executed late, ineffectively, or not at all." The report also asserted that "DHS and the states were not prepared for" Katrina.
Moreover, the House report concluded that Katrina overwhelmed "most aspects" of a "system that relies on state and local governments to identify needs and request resources." From the House select committee's report:
With Katrina, the reasons reliable information did not reach more people more quickly are many, and these reasons provide the foundation for our findings.
In essence, we found that while a national emergency management system that relies on state and local governments to identify needs and request resources is adequate for most disasters, a catastrophic disaster like Katrina can and did overwhelm most aspects of the system for an initial period of time. No one anticipated the degree and scope of the destruction the storm would cause, even though many could and should have.
The failure of local, state, and federal governments to respond more effectively to Katrina -- which had been predicted in theory for many years, and forecast with startling accuracy for five days -- demonstrates that whatever improvements have been made to our capacity to respond to natural or man-made disasters, four and half years after 9/11, we are still not fully prepared. Local first responders were largely overwhelmed and unable to perform their duties, and the National Response Plan did not adequately provide a way for federal assets to quickly supplement or, if necessary, supplant first responders.
The committee further found that:
- A proactive federal response, or push system, is not a new concept, but it is rarely utilized.
- The Secretary [of Homeland Security] should have invoked the Catastrophic Incident Annex to direct the federal response posture to fully switch from a reactive to proactive mode of operations.
Elaborating on the latter point, the committee -- while not excusing the significant failures of state and local officials -- faulted the federal government's failure to act without formal state and local requests. The committee wrote:
Perhaps the single most important question the Select Committee has struggled to answer is why the federal response did not adequately anticipate the consequences of Katrina striking New Orleans and, prior to landfall, begin to develop plans and move boats and buses into the area to rescue and evacuate tens of thousand [sic] of victims from a flooded city. At least part of the answer lies in the Secretary's failure to invoke the NRP-CIA, to clearly and forcefully instruct everyone involved with the federal response to be proactive, anticipate future requirements, develop plans to fulfill them, and execute those plans without waiting for formal requests from overwhelmed state and local response officials.
The NRP-CIA was specifically written for a disaster such as Katrina.
[...]
It is clear the consequences of Hurricane Katrina exceeded all of these criteria and required a proactive response. According to the NRP, "Upon recognition that a catastrophic incident condition (e.g. involving mass casualties and/or mass evacuation) exists, the Secretary of DHS immediately designates the event an INS and begins, potentially in advance of a formal Presidential disaster declaration, implementation of the NRP-CIA." On Monday evening, when DHS received reports the levees had breached in multiple locations, it should have been clear to the department the nation's worst case hurricane scenario had occurred and a proactive federal response was required. Chertoff never invoked the NRP-CIA.
From the October 24 edition of Fox News' Special Report with Brit Hume:
HUME: So, what's going on here, panel? Bill Sammon, senior White House correspondent of The Washington Examiner; Mort Kondracke, executive editor of Roll Call; and the syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer -- Fox News contributors all.
What do we have here, Mort? Do we have, from what we can tell, a good response to this obviously terrible situation or what?
KONDRACKE: Yeah. I think everybody here has learned a lot from Katrina. The federal government responded promptly. The president is going out there tomorrow. He's not wasting any time. He's not going to do a flyover, he's going to go visit.
Some Democrats in California are complaining that his visit will interfere with the firefighters, which is -- but they would say if he didn't come out there that he was ignoring the problem.
So, you know, every -- you can be sure that whenever there's a disaster of any kind, somebody's going to try to take political advantage of it for positively or negatively. But all the returns seem to be right.
One thing about Katrina, by the way, just before we finish the subject, the voters of Louisiana made it very clear who they thought was responsible for the failure of Katrina by electing Bobby Jindal, who they rejected four years ago, the Republican governor -- elected him governor.
HUME: Over the weekend.
KONDRACKE: Yeah. Kathleen Blanco --
HUME: By such a large margin that there's no runoff.
KONDRACKE: Yeah. Kathleen Blanco didn't even dare to run. So, I mean, it's quite clear that they held the Democrats partly responsible.
HUME: So, is the issue here that the federal government has learned its lessons and is doing so much better, or is there some other ingredient in the equation that makes a big difference here, Bill?
SAMMON: I think they've learned some lessons, but I think the real difference is that the first- and second-responders -- that is the local and state authorities -- are doing a better job in California than they did in Louisiana.
I mean, Governor Blanco, Mayor Nagin fell to pieces when Katrina hit, and therefore, the burden shifted to the feds. And the feds were never set up to be the first responders in natural disasters, so they looked bad.
This time around, Schwarzenegger is handling it well. The local firefighters are handling it well, so it's not falling into the lap of the feds, and the feds look better.
Yes, they've learned some lessons, but it just hasn't gotten to their level yet. I think that's the difference.
KRAUTHAMMER: Yeah, I think that's true that the sort of competence of state government is extremely important. So, we saw that, ironically, in Katrina itself, where Mississippi has recovered to the point where nobody ever talks about it and Katrina. It's only about Louisiana and New Orleans because --
HUME: You mean as in still being a big --
KRAUTHAMMER: As a big issue, and in contrast to what happened in Louisiana where local incompetence was the major contributor.
And also, look, the major factor is -- here is nature. I mean, the Santa Ana winds have shifted this afternoon. If they hadn't, we'd be looking at a disaster of Katrina proportions. It may end up as a smaller disaster. There's a very small margin of error.
But what I thought was important in what you mentioned, Brit, about Boxer and Dodd, and what we heard from Senator Harry Reid, who blamed the fires on global warming, is that the Democrats have a boundless capacity to seize whatever inanity is in the air and to make it to their own.
The idea that Iraq is at fault is refuted by all the evidence on the ground, and by the statement we heard in Jim Angle's piece about -- from the National Guard General, who said it had no effect at all. Everything is in place, and it was adequate supplies.
And troops in global warming is equally absurd. Obviously, you've had the Santa Ana winds for thousands of years, and this area is desert. So it's always happened; it's always going to happen, and it has -- Democrats are always looking for a way of blaming it on the administration or on policy, and every once in awhile, they outdo themselves in their overreaching.
SAMMON: Well, they did it in Katrina, and they found a way to blame Bush, and that has now become shorthand, that Katrina was Bush's screw up, when, in reality, the lion's share of the blame really does rest with the local and the state officials.
But, you know, if you look at what Bush is doing this time around, in terms of how soon he's going out there, how soon he's declaring an emergency, how soon he's signing these declarations, it's the exact same timetable as he did last time.
In fact, he declared an emergency in Louisiana two days before Katrina hit landfall, but this myth has taken root that he was asleep at the switch for weeks, and he just wasn't.
KONDRACKE: Well, the federal response, as the -- as various investigators have shown, was inadequate in the case of Katrina. But Katrina was a much bigger disaster than this is. I mean, you know, a whole city got wiped out, and nobody could have adequately responded to it.
But to the extent that anybody failed, I think it was state and local, and, in this case, the state and locals have stepped up.
HUME: Up next, President Bush urges the Cuban people to look beyond Fidel Castro and embrace democracy. We'll discuss both the substance and the timing of that speech.
Oh yes, I forgot. Republicans ALWAYS do everything right, Democrats ALWAYS do everything wrong.
The other theory...
Republicans want to convince you that government is bad and government can't help people.
Once, elected, they set out to prove it.
Well if the Republican message is not to rely on your federal government to help you in a major catastrophic event then they've conveyed that message loud and clear. You know, even if they don't give a sh*t about people at least it would help their image if they pretended to.
The Constitutional message is that you should rely on your local and state governments to handle your emergency needs, and the federal government should be there as a last resort. Lest we forget, individual states are still sovereign bodies. In the case of Katrina, there was complete failure on the local and state levels. If there weren't, there would have been little need for military lifesaving operations, the Superdome debacle would have NEVER happened, New Orleans would have been EMPTY when the storm made landfall.
Stick it where the sun doesn't shine, Bushie...I ain't buying.
I'm never on the side of anyone who calls themself "Bushie" (unless it's sarcastic) but exactly how long did it take you to come up with that thoroughly well-reasoned reply? :) It did make me laugh anyway. :)
There are disasters, like for instance Katrina, that NO state or local government has the resources to handle. That is why the FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGMENT AGENCY, was created, what part of FEDERAL are you NOT understanding if the constitution said it was all up to the state and local gov then FEMA would be unconstitutional. Your hivemind propaganda is weak, it has been refuted many times before and its boring. Do you ever do ANYTHING but repeat long ago refuted Limborg talking points?
You are beyond belief, Slo-one. Don't you realize that states are sovereign?
You are a moron. Dont you know the F in Fema stands for FEDERAL? Dont you know FEDERAL LAW supercedes state law OR state constitutions? Did you know FEMA was created by FEDERAL LAW? What am I talking about you are to ignorant to know ANYTHING.
You are 100% wrong, stupid. Wrong, wrong, wrong. There is absolutely NO FEDERAL LAW that supercedes state law. That is an outright LIE and YOU KNOW it. Do you know who created the federal government? Are you really that stupid? Do you honestly think that FEMA has the authority to march into a sovereign state and set up shop? If you do, you're a complete moron. Do you know that the President CANNOT dispatch any federal aid unless the state governer FIRST gives permission? You really need to take a course in American Government. You are a stupid, stupid man.
No moron. I just know what I am talking about and you NEVER DO. Your ignorance is all encompassing. We knew that. What you dont seem to get is that WE ARENT. We dont get TOLD what to believe by the hivemind Article VI of the Constitution RANKS OUR LAWS. Here is what it says
This Constitution and the LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES which shall be made in the pursuance thereof; and any treaties made or which shall be made UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF THE UNITED STATES, shall be the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND; and judges of every state shall be bound thereby ANY THING IN THE CONSTITUTION OR STATE TO THE CONTRARY NOTWITHSTANDING.
Now since I know how pathetically stupid you are let me dumb it down to a level even you MIGHT be able to understand IT ranks like this 1) The Constitution 2) Federal laws and ratified treaties equally the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND subject ONLY to the constitution 3) State Constitutions 4) State laws.
So to recap in deference to your abject stupidity YES Federal laws DO supercede State laws OR state Constitutions. You can repeat the word stupid a few more times. I am sure that seems clever when you are riding the shortbus. What is CLEAR however is that I just know a lot more about this than you do. That doesnt make me brilliant. Garden slugs are smarter than you. A huge problem you seem to have is you are SO stupid you actually THINK you are smart. You arent. Your ignorance is monumental. You will have to learn to live with it.
OoooooO!
Busted Bush Lies!
How ya' feel now?
Is your behind a little sore after that spanking? Maybe you should go somewhere and see to that.
The adults are talkin' here.
I mean, honestly, how on earth could you assert something so patently ridiculous as "[t]here is absolutely NO FEDERAL LAW that supercedes state law"? I mean...sheesh!!
Let's get this out in the open once and for all:
BUSH LIES, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
Further proof that wingnuts have absolutely no interest in the Constitution of the United States.
Bushlies?
...crickets chirping...
Oh and whether FEMA needs permission is irrelevant. I understand that is how the FEMA law is written. Since Blanco asked for federal aid on Aug 27th and Katrina hit on Aug 29th that really isnt relevant to THIS situation. You are SUCH a moron
Whether or not FEMA does or doesn't need permission of the state before it can act, I think the main question is: Why wasn't anyone in Louisiana on the phone with the Feds saying "Uhhh, over here! A little help, please?"
There should have been SOMEONE in Louisiana that should have spoken up, instead of just waiting for help.
Yeah the real question is why didnt the Governor of Louisiana call and ask the feds for help say two or three days before Katrina hit? The answer to that of course would be SHE DID.
There was. Gov Blanco made a request for federal assistance (before the hurricane)along with a detailed list of anticipated needs. The FEDERAL government simply FAILED toact until they were shamed into it.
Um, Glenn...?
Did you not read the post you just replied to?
Katrina hit on the 29th.
It is well documented that Blanco requested federal assistance on the 27th. (Look it up genius.)
That's TWO (2) DAYS before Katrina hit.
You have my permission to join Bush Lies in sitting in the corner to think about what you've done.
Don't come back until I say so.
Actually, the State of Lousiana did ask for help. The problem was that the Feds, under the "good job, Brownie" horse lawyer, did nothing when he was supposed to get busy and deliver feds help. But the real issue is how the Bush administration treated a majority Black population and it was crappy for sure. Their record is so bad, no one can deny the Feds ineptness. Slow response, ice shipping from here to there with no delivery and finally in storage, delivery of trailers late, many left to rot (not in Lousiana) and the trailers delivered full of formaldehyde, Feds not sending Coast Guard rescuers or any other kind of help for weeks, the list of criminal ineptness goes on and on. On first view of California help, looks like Bush is responding to that mostly white constituency differently. But let us wait to see if he truly delivers.
Oh really, genius?
http://www.cwu.edu/~auditor/grants3.html
Here ya go... pay particular attention to the 'second rule'.
Next time... think before you write, k? I hope you are not a lawyer... otherwise you might wanna take that 'diploma' of yours and put it to good hygienic use.
I think he is one of those rightwing radio hosts the kind that spread and filter all the things they dont know to others in the hivemind. Jason came in here before got spanked in exactly this way telling us who dumb WE were while we had to show him how WRONG he was. Then he slunk away for a while. I think he got over his embarassment enough to come back but not enough to use his old nick. Same self satisfied way. Same never knowing what he is talking about while THINKING he is informed.
All it took was a simple Google search. Nothing complicated about it. But don't tell that to the psycho wingnuts whose blindness to the truth is an impediment to their ability to even attempt to seek out the facts - they might go ballistic with their so-called 'self-righteous' rage.
I always have a copy of the Constitution right here by my computer desk. I just picked it up and copied from it.
Your copy must be different from the 'constitution' that Mark Levin relies on. Levin's 'constitution' apparently allows Bush to be a wiretapping dictator who's free to act with impunity.
I think mr. lies thinks we are still living under the Articles of Confederation. States are not soverign. Soverign entities can enter treaties. Last time I checked, New Jersey does not have the power to enter into a treaty.
All I know is FEMA worked great during the Clinton Administration, when its director had a cabinet-level position and reported directly to the presidnet. After Bush's re-organization of the government to make it easier to "defend the homeland" and his appointment of "Browniw" to run things, FEMA couldn't plan a fart after eating a bowl of chili.
No federal law supercedes a state law?
Better tell those medical marijuana felons in California about that one ...
egg...zackly.
I thought of the very same thing when I read that asinine statement.
The devastation of New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen because of a significant flaw in levee design by the Army Corps of Engineers, according to preliminary findings from the official Louisiana team investigating the Hurricane Katrina flooding.
Who is the Army Corps of Engineers?
The United States Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) is made up of approximately 34,600 Civilian and 650 military members.
What is part of their job?
Planning, designing, building and operating water resources and other civil works projects (Navigation, Flood Control, Environmental Protection, Disaster Response, etc.)
The uninformed and uneducated have a habit of repeating a lie they've been told.
EXCELLENT post, ma'am. As usual.
:-)
Yes. Pearl really is a gem of a lady.
Do you want a chuckle and to cut some federal welfare?
The Army Corps of Engineers is responsible for continually dredging the Mississippi rivier so that commerce can be done on it.
Remove the ACoE's work, make the businesses pay for the dredging, and save billions of taxpayer dollars. Let's see if the "free-marketers" stand behind that plan ...
Yes, Rick, now you're starting to see the light! Congradulations!
Yes BS Lies, go play nice with the other challenged children there is a good boy.
Oh yes, I forgot. Republicans ALWAYS do everything right, Democrats ALWAYS do everything wrong.
Not always…but obviously in the case of Katrina vs. the SOCO fires, state republicans have done a far superior job compared to the incompetent state democrat government charged with managing the disaster in the New Orleans and Sammon and Kondracke are simply pointing that out. The Louisiana residents have obviously noticed to by electing a new Republican governor.
What’s really funny is how all the liberal news media can do is fall all over themselves trying to blame somebody for something in California. Like the governator told the media straight up…you can look for problems here but you will not find them because we are doing what we are suppose to be doing…an obvious and correct comparison of the fire response to the incompetent response and blame game played by democrat officials in Louisiana following Katrina. Democrats quickly throw up their hands and display the victim mentality during crisis while Republicans take care of business and move on. Republicans step up…Democrats play the victim. Who do you want in charge?
Of course there is no Democrat party and since you are too stupid to even know the name of the largest political party in the US we cant take anything you say seriously.
Solon,
Not your weakest response ever, but weak none the less.
I agree. On the other hand while your post wasnt your STUPIDEST ever it was stupid none the less.
Solon,
The nearly instant timing (NIT for short) of your wit has earned you the title "NIT-Wit of the Day"! Congratulations!
At least I HAVE wit, you have...well nothing comes to mind. Certainly not a point OR higher brain function. You do a good job of repeating hivemind stupidity like Democrat Party.
"The NRP-CIA was specifically written for a disaster such as Katrina.
[...]
It is clear the consequences of Hurricane Katrina exceeded all of these criteria and required a proactive response. According to the NRP..."
BINGO...! Instead, the federal response was too little, too late. I was there.
Did Mayor Ray Nagin and Governor Kathleen Blanco perform with distinction? Nope. The magnitude of the disaster was too big for any state or local government. The feds needed to step in with help immediately. Then when Bush finally did all he seemed concerened about was taking control of the Louisiana National Guard away from Blanco. Even in a disaster it was still all about power to him and Karl Rove...and smiting Democrats.
Yes, and making sure the oil rigs were back up and running.
Oh, who is responsible for California now that it was proven that Bush was informed about the problems before hand?
Ok,
So these guys are half right, the Democratic government of Louisiana is to blame (they did what they could with what little they had)..... but only partly
But the federal level (had more than enough to make a difference) is run by Republicans.... has no blame because they kick ass and bring it!
As usual, it was portrayed as only the state and local levels were to blame.... damned incompetent Dems
Yes, the group of fanatics that set out to prove that government needs to be small enough to drown it in a bathtub did everything right and went out of its way to help the poor black communities of the Gulf Coast!
yeah.... right
Don't forget, florida was more successful because the fed's were all over fixing the problems with republican districts. The same will happen in California, the fed's will be all over the mansions while they ignore the middle class.
I have to point out that the reason the flooding from Katrina was so catastrophic was because of levee failure. It is well-established by independent experts and even to an extent by its own admissions that the Corps of Engineers was at fault in the design and construction of the levees.
As soon as the levees started breaking Chertoff knew that it was lights out for New Orleans. His agency's guidelines dictated immediate action in a such a disaster. Instead they wasted critical time doing nothing.
Bush came here with Karl Rove in tow and to them it was a political game in which there had to be a winner and a loser...and they had to win. While precious time was wasting Bush wanted to bargain with Governor Kathleen Blanco over who would have authority over the Louisana National Guard, which was under Blanco's control. It was a power game to Bush to humiliate Blanco, a Democrat. Bush wouldn't have done that to a Republican.
You can criticize Blanco and Mayor Ray Nagin all you want, and some of it may be deserved, but the magnitude of the disaster was so big that neither one was equipped to handle it. The feds were supposed to have the expertise and assets to jump right in. They didn't and critical time was lost. And to this day we have not gotten the help Bush promised in his infamous speech in Jackson Square when he assured us he would do whatever was required to rebuild New Orleans.
When you see your government waste hundreds of billions of dollars in a war that is nothing more than a misadventurous experiment in world domination but yet come up short when it comes to helping a mojor American city recover from a catastrophe that the government contributed significantly to, it is...well, very disconcerting, to say the least.
"I have to point out that the reason the flooding from Katrina was so catastrophic was because of levee failure. It is well-established by independent experts and even to an extent by its own admissions that the Corps of Engineers was at fault in the design and construction of the levees." - Irony101
Quite possibly you already know this, but there's quite possibly at least some administation culpability behind the failure of the levees themselves. Should you not know what's behind my statement (and for others who may not know), here's a bit of information.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2005/8/30/212451/290
Yes, the Bush administration cut back funding on levee work.
I would believe that load of garbage you're spewing if: A. I were a democrat moonbat or B. I truly believe that it is the responsibility of the federal government to rebuild New Orleans.
But neither of those answers will EVER be applicable.
No they wont you are far too ignorant to be a Democrat. Your stupidity and heartlessness has been exposed to all. You have no humanity and NEVER know what you are talking about.
You enable the lazy to believe that they are victims. Larry Elder describes this phenomenon in "The 10 things you can't say in America". You are a Victicrat. Every person born in America is born a billionaire. If they don't make the choice to achieve their potential, it's nobody's fault but their own. The people who sat in New Orleans during hurricane Katrina were merely reaping what they sowed. Ditto for the ones who evacuated.
Your stupidity is only rivalled by your gullibility and your astonishing capacity for self delusion. Sure everyone can be a billionare. You are a bone ignorant moron. The hivemind has brainwashed you into irrelvance. Your stupidity keeps you there. You cant contribute really to this forum it is for human beings and you fail to meet the qualifications. The very idea you believe that no one is poor for any reason other than they are lazy is a symptom of your stupidity. When I first heard Clarence Carters song Patches I cried. It still brings tears to my eyes because things like that did happen. You just wouldnt understand it because only human beings could.
"Every person born in America is born a billionaire. If they don't make the choice to achieve their potential, it's nobody's fault but their own."--BL
Fascinating attitude. I'm guessing it stems from the Libertarian ethos of the fearless, independent, individualist American who are islands unto themselves. To the contrary, I'll bet most every billionaire had all kinds of help from an early age. A good self image fostered by his family. Lack of concrete racial or other marble ceilings imposed by society. A disposition or temperment to do business well, the capacity to get along with people, both inborn and learned much easier in some circumstances than others. Enough native intelligence to move quicker, at the right time, and more adroitly than his competitors---who don't become billionaires. Not to mention being around people who can provide role models and practical advice. The financial support early in life to live in a neigborhood with good schools and later afford higher education. And just plain good luck.
And contrary to your moral denigration of the less materially wealthy, it is often moral reservations that hold them back from doing the kinds of things necessary to achieve great wealth.
It's easier for a camel to get through an eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven. [Mark 10:25]Eddy: You are a wise man. You nailed it. There are so many factors that determine the acquisition of material wealth...from socio-economic and environmental factors to, as you point out, even a conscious decision to eschew monetary wealth. But with regards to the former, some people are doomed to a life of abject poverty at birth. Certainly there are the rare and noble exceptions of people transcending the dire conditions of their birth to achieve success in life, but those instances are rare indeed.
New Orleans was/is a poor city and many, many people simply did not have the ability to leave. Whether provisions should have been made in advance to evacuate the poor is a good question but, unfortunately, we can now only consider that idea for the future.
But let me point out, if I didn't make this clear earlier, not everyone who elected to stay in New Orleans and ride out the hurricane were poor, uneducated people. In my neighborhood, for example, the people who died were far from poverty stricken. They were middle-class people and, ironically, predominantly Republican. Bushie may call them idiots but that is too harsh and it ignores other realities.
People in New Orleans are tough. Particularly with older people there is a strong protective attachment to one's home and property; and many people were reluctant to leave their homes for the uncertainty of being on the road in unfamiliar places, especially older people. We have ridden out many powerful hurricanes and many people were naturally inclined to ride this one out too. And as I pointed out earlier there was a body of "local knowledge" concerning the behavior of hurricanes...they were never as strong or as pointedly directed to New Orleans as predicted. Newscasters always embellished the threats of hurricanes. In some instances it was a standing joke. Don't get me wrong, we knew Katrina was going to be a strong hurricane, but no one anticipated the levees collapsing and the lethal flooding that occurred. If you knew and understood the people in New Orleans, the life-long inhabitants, you would understand better the mindset. Sure, in hindsight it was a bad decidion for those who elected to stay, a fatal decision for some, but at the time it was not considered lunacy to have stayed. If not for my family I might have elected to ride out the storm too. As I said New Orleans people are tough and we don't scare easily.
But the same defiant attitude which may have doomed some New Orleanians is the only thing that can save New Orleans. People here are sweating and struggling to stay and re-build their lives despite the bleak outlook.
It is hurtful to hear insensitive strangers, even public officials in other parts of the country, denounce New Orleans and say we do not deserve our country's help or who would render the decision to help New Orleans into a finacial equation. Yes, we need help...we need federal dollars to rebuild our city from the ground up. A catastrophe of this magnitude could happen anywhere in America at any moment by any means...even from a terrorist attack. But if the affected people are willing to work hard and endure the hardship that pioneering-like spirit should be rewarded, not ridiculed or denounced. American should not turn their backs on fellow Americans.
Since 9/11 and the Iraq war we constantly hear a great deal of talk about patriotism. In my opinion, it is our patriotic duty to help other Americans...and to do whatever it takes to ensure the survival of an old and important American city like New Orleans. It demonstrates to the world that Americans will persevere and rise above any tragedy. And it brings us closer as Americans knowing that we are all together in spirit.
Sorry if all this sounds corny but even for an old cynic like myself I believe in America. However I am disappointed in the selfish attitude of some who one day may be faced with a similar catastrophe.
One last thing... Ironically, George W. Bush has old ties to New Orleans. When he was a young man he used to come here often to party with local friends. Hell, maybe if he hadn't stopped drinking he'd help us today. ;>)
Thanks...
"Every person born in America is born a billionaire. If they don't make the choice to achieve their potential, it's nobody's fault but their own."
This has got to be one of the STUPIDEST things I have ever read. Not everyone - in fact, the vast majority of people - do not have a 'choice'. Many people are fortunate to just be able to have a job, their health, and keep a roof over their heads... forget about being a 'billionnaire'. Oh, and what about those people who CANNOT become 'billionnaires' as a result of a disability or some unforseen calamity? According to you and your BS way of thinking they should just fry and die believing that they are at fault for their misfortunes.
You really are a sad sack. A self-loathing hate-everybody-else-who-isn't-like-me loser. Have a nice life.
"Every person born in America is born a billionaire. If they don't make the choice to achieve their potential, it's nobody's fault but their own."
WOW!! That could be the most ridiculous, idiotic, and self-deluded statement that I've ever read here.
And that's really saying something, because there's lots of flat-out ignorance posted by you folks here. Sad, really- your ignorance harms the rest of the nation.
See, that's the problem with you people- you live on a different planet in an entirely different universe, sustained by FUXNoise propaganda. Tell me, what color is the sky on your planet? Is it always sunny there? What's the divorce rate? I suppose that everyone is a billionaire, yes?
Kinda sounds like socialism to me... are you a commie?
You REALLY THINK that you're "one of them". Buddy, you ain't, and NEVER WILL BE. You vote for them, while they stab you in the back and laugh at your foolishness. You're nothing more than a disposable, "useful idiot."
Wake the hell up.
Truly, you're a sad, deluded fool.
That's the thing that kills me about these wingnuts. Most of them are so ignorant and even outright stupid that they vote against their economic interests. They simply do not have a clue. They faithfully follow El Rushbo, who is a zillionnaire, and fail to realise that he doesn't give a s**t about them personally.
The few wingnuts I've had the misfortune of knowing have all been educationally-challenged people who cannot think for themselves and who do not have a pot to piss in. They seem to almost revel in their dimness which is quite sad.
True, there is plenty of blame to go around. Bush DID divert 80% of the remaining levee money to Iraq and there is NO argument that the levees were a FEDERAL responsibility. FEMA was a disgrace and Bush wouldnt even forego his San Diego fundraiser to go to New Orleans the man is a disgrace.
"San Diego fundraiser"?
You have just proven that you are a complete kool-aid drinking mouth breather.
Fundraiser, indeed.
Because I actually know what I am talking about? You ought to try it sometime. Just because you are so ignorant you only know what Rush TELLS you doesnt mean we are all afflicted with your virulent form of ignornace. Yes Bush went to a fundraiser while New Orleans was drowning. Most marginally informed people already know that. Since I am mentioning a fact WELL KNOWN outside the ignornace of the hivemind you call me a mouthbreather. Oh brainless one how sad it must be, being as stupid as you are
http://flowtv.org/?p=275
Bush remained on a five-week vacation during the first days of the disaster punctuated by a visit to a private event in Arizona where he bragged about how well things were going in Iraq, comparing the war there that he initiated to World War II, inferring that he was FDR. The next day Bush was shown clowning at a fundraiser in San Diego, smiling and strumming a guitar, and again bragging about Iraq and touting his failed domestic policies.[i]
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/082906.html
As tens of thousands of Americans in New Orleans pleaded for rescue and as hundreds of bodies rotted in the heat, Bush belatedly agreed to cut short his five-week Texas vacation but still insisted on fulfilling speaking engagements in San Diego and Phoenix – where he posed clowning with a gift guitar – before heading back to Washington.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200603060010
Easton contrasted Clinton's visit to Los Angeles with Bush's [link to www.thinkprogress.org] color="#0052a3">activities following the hurricane, stating: "On the other hand, he went off -- after Katrina hit, he went to San Diego.
One of these days you might TRY knowing what you are talking about. Ignorant, souless and brainwashed is no way for even a hiveminder like YOU to go throug life. Anyone even marginally informed already knew this you ignorant putz
This is a repost of "a friend of mine's" from the Kansas tornado story. It's a great Katrina story. Get your FACTS straight, stupid.
Where do I start? Hmmmmmm...........first let me speak to your claim that Gov. Sebelius "had a few things to take care of that weekend."
You noted many towns were partially underwater, which means that those same towns were "mostly" not underwater. A notable difference when compared to the condition of Greensburg. You also said that "much of the state's wheat crop was ruined. I'm confused. Why bring that up? Was she extraordinarily busy coordinating efforts to search for surviving wheat crops? I just don't understand what kept her attention diverted from the 22 mile long swath of destruction that erased an entire town from the map? That's just me, though. I'm curious like that. I guess it's my "right-wing rabies" acting up.
Now, on to "your" Katrina story. I must admit, you did a great job slanting the story to reflect your disdain for the legally elected President of the United States. I wish I had the time to point out every little inaccuracy in your fable, but I don't. So, I'll just highlight the ones that made me laugh the hardest.
1. On August 27, Governor Blanco DID ask the President to declare a state of emergency. Why? Because she is required to do so. President Bush made the declaration that very same day. BTW, you failed to mention that one day EARLIER the White House declared an "impending disaster area" and dispatched 10,000 National Guard troops along the Gulf Coast.
2. Your slant was that the President gave a speech "in support of the Iraq War in front of an almost all-white audience" in San Diego on August 30. It was actually a commemoration of the 60th anniversary of V-J Day. Any surprise that most of the audience was white? Is it hard to believe that they almost all wore heavily decorated VFW garrison hats? What's even more surprising is that most of them were about 80 years old, too.
3. You said the President flew back to Crawford on the evening of the 30th to "extend his vacation". Funny, that's the EXACT same day that he announced he would cut his trip short and return to Washington. He also recalled the Congress to approve emergency funding. (Shhh.....Congress was on vacation, too, but don't tell anyone.) See, when the levee breaches were confirmed, he dropped everything and went to work on getting even more aid to New Orleans.
4. "On August 31, Gov. Blanco twice called the White House asking for help." Again, she's required to do this. This time what she asked for was assistance in regaining control of the streets of New Orleans. That's the same day that Nagin ordered the police to stop search and rescue operations and focus on violence and looters. Four Navy ships arrived with supplies and commenced search and rescue that day, as well. I wonder who made that happen. President Blanco? Admiral Nagin?
5. President Bush arrived in New Orleans on September 2nd - 3 days after the storm. That was, of course, after he had; declared a state of emergency (before Ray Nagin did), declared a national disaster (allowing deployment of active duty military, who rescued most of the people stranded on the rooftops), ordered 40,000 National Guard troops into the region, coordinated a fundraising effort led by his father and Bill Clinton, petitioned Congress to authorize 10.5 billion in immediate relief and authorized military transports to move the critically ill from New Orleans to Houston. What did you do on YOUR vacation?
6. Barbara Bush's comments were made at the HOUSTON ASTRODOME (NOT the Superdome) in response to her learning that many of the people in the ASTRODOME had no intention of leaving Texas to go back home to New Orleans. They told her that they were taken aback by the hospitality of the city and were eager to start a new life there. I agree, it was a poorly worded statement. But you twisted into an entirely different story. Come on, at least get the STATE right. You're a HISTORY professor?
7. If you're going to correct my literary skills, please correct me properly, your highness. My misuse of the word "it's" is an example of incorrect punctuation, NOT incorrect spelling, Mr. Nit-picker.
An accurate example of incorrect spelling can be seen in YOUR use of the word "desperately". Are we clear now? Judge not, lest........well, you know the rest.
Class dismissed.
It might be a great story to a hiveminder but it has nothing to do with what I said. I see you were too stupid to make your own response so you just took someone elses or yours FROM someone else which had NOTHING to do with what I said, which was ABSOLUTLY correct. That while New Orleans was under water Bush went to San Diego for a fundraiser. WHICH IT WAS. Now I made no slant about white audiences, I didnt say anything about your spelling. I never do. Even someone as ignorant as YOU spells better than I do. The thing is you called me names as IF what I said wasnt true. When even what you posted ADMITS IT IS IN FACT TRUE. So take a pill, stop being so desperate, stop digging your hole and face up to the fact you are ignorant and dont know what you are talking about.
Solon,
Bush Lies is dishonest and hate-filled and therefore not worthy of any response. What people like Bush Lies wants is to engage in the most hate-filled and dishonest forms of attack. There is no point in replying to them. It demeans you.
Off topic, but Barbara Bush is a vile bigoted human being who is hateful enough to have her own Rightwing radio pukefest show. I'm surprised she hasn't gotten any offers from Cheap Channel.
Just had to vent a bit...
As a Louisiana resident who had 3 refugees in our house, I know first hand how our governor & Nagin talked a good game in their plans for a superstrom a year before Katrina hit. As good liberals they believe that paper work not action is all that's important. Liberalism has run New Orleans for generations & will until is sinks in the mud. That is the true tragedy of a great city. P.S. Please go to New Orleans, the place need you. I spent weekend before last there & I still love the place.
Gee, I wonder why Media Matters doesn't want us to blame the state and local government. Oh yeah. I know. It's because the Mayor and the Governor are Democrats.
California wildfires], the state and locals have stepped up." However, two congressional reports -- while not excusing the state and local governments -- extensively detailed the federal government's failures in its preparation for and response to Katrina.
Selective comprehension + strawman = troll
Conservative: "All government should be local."
Liberal Moonbat Socialist: "All government should be FEDERAL."
Conservative: "All government should be local."
Does that mean we don't have to pay any federal taxes? ...to fund Bush's failed neocon experiment in world domination?
FACT: Anyone who uses the term "neocon" in a political argument against "the right" is either completely oblivious to what a "neocon" really is or secretly harbors conservative values while his liberal friends aren't looking. (I know you listen to Hannity while you soap yourself in the shower. I promise I won't tell anyone)
Excuse me, but I certainly do know what a neoconservative is...particularly in the context in which I used the term above. A small group of conservative "intellectuals", some of whom resided at the American Enterprise Institute in the 1990s, formulated a plan for reconfiguring the world after the cold war by taking advantage of the United States' position as the sole remaining super power. The plan, which floated around the conservative lunatic fringes, called for pre-emptive military action to take out those lesser nations that stood in the way of a reconfiguration of power as America saw fit, particularly in the Middle East, and which intended to secure our acces to much needed natural resources...that would be oil. There's more to it...but that's a good enough basic summary for now.
YES!!! That means that we don't have to pay federal taxes! Now you're listening!
Bushlies, do you think the NYPD should be shouldering the bulk of the War on Terror?
Remember you are talking to Bush Lies so the answer is NO, he doesnt think...well, at all.
My brother bought into that koolaid you're sipping, it really worked well for him not paying federal taxes. He's been in jail for tax evasion for the last 20 years. You should join him, y'all would have a hoot of a time!
That is a lie. Such categorical distinctions are quite often dishonest. They show a lazy mind. You continue to be dishonest (even in the simplest of things).
"Media Matters for America is a Web-based, not-for-profit, 501(c)(3) progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media."
I'm just going to keep posting this for all the conservative posters who think they have discovered a conspiracy. Pointing out misinformation is not the same as the partisan, slanted information shoveled out to us daily.
HotWings,
That post alone proves you to be a bobblehead who doesn't have a clue!
I'll hold your hand while I explain it to you:
MMFA isn't saying that the Democratic governer or mayor are guiltless.....
They are pointing out that these so-called 'news' people are claiming that the Bush administration has no fault to bear in the response to the Gulf Coast after Katrina....
Rest assured though, you are going to see Bush and his fanatic band of thugs (that make up his bubble) go all out to save all those $500,000 homes, especially in all those sweet Republican districts!
Did that happen in those pesky Democratic districts in Louisiana? hmmmmm?
Captfoster, you know where to get a 500K home in southern California? I'm all ears! ;0)
This has been pretty interesting to follow. The other morning I turned on a righty radio show (Ingraham I believe) and she was predicting that the liberal media would be politicizing it, or explaining any success as Bush trying to recover from Katrina.
I couldn't find any liberal media to check out those predictions, but by that evening , I sure heard the conservative media making all sorts of comparisons.Nothing to do with the money out here as opposed to NO, or the difference in the nature of the disasters.
Best bit I heard was on Hugh Hewitt's radio show. He was going on about the fire victims not expecting "Daddy Government" to fix everything, as New Orleans , according to him, had done.
Hewitt took a phone call from a man supporting him.The caller said that as soon as the fires were going, he called Duncan Hunter (his rep), Hunter made some calls, and everything was going smoothly.
WTF? The self-sufficient bootstraps puller called his elected official, who contacted the firefighters and other government agencies, who responded to the situation.
What did the officials in New Orleans do, dial the wrong number?
Just as MMFA is not saying the local govt's are totally blameless, Sammon is not saying the Feds are totally blameless. My understanding of the term "Lions share" is that it is a larger portion, but not the whle.
SAMMON: Well, they did it in Katrina, and they found a way to blame Bush, and that has now become shorthand, that Katrina was Bush's screw up, when, in reality, the lion's share of the blame really does rest with the local and the state officials.
As state and loval govt's have the "Lions Share" of the responsibility, they share in the "Lions share" of the credit.
MMFA is guilty of the same spin they are accusing Sammon of. Amazing how hindsight is always 20/20
The term lions share comes from the social dynamic of the lion. That is the leader of the group eats as much as he wants then IF there is anything left it is shared among the group. The lions share COULD be all. No MMFA is not being dishonest. No state or local government has the resources to handle a catastrophe like Katrina much less one like Louisiana. Now a state like California which has like the 8th largest economy in the entire WORLD could do better but Louisiana is NOT that rich. Anyone who thought about it at ALL knows they needed substantial Federal help and the Feds FAILED MISERABLY. These guys are trying to heap the blame on the locals in order to SHEILD the Bush administration from the blame they so richly deserve.
Maybe
You are posigng the classic Liberal vs. Conservative argument. Conservatives believe local government is best at responding to local needs and the Feds are to provide assistance. Liberals believe the Feds should take the lead.
Sammon and Kondracki believe the responsibility was local first and the therefore the Feds should be assistilg the locals, and not the locals assisting the feds. You have made a case because of the economic circumstances in Louisiana as to why the Feds should play a greater role - but the bottom line is the way our country is set up States are supposed to take the lead and request help from the Feds when they need it.
Again - hindsight is 20/20 and everything could have been done better - there's enough blame to go around to everyone. I don't believe these guys are sheilding the Bush Administration as much as they are just stating their conservative beliefs. Their belief is their opinion - not conservative misinformation.
I dont see it that way. They said the LIONS share of the blame. They didnt say there was enough blame to go around. It looks to me like like they were trying to shield the Bush administation from well deserved criticism. As for the local government being first line of defense sure. Your family ought to be able to give first aid too but if you get shot in the chest they better get you in an ambulance. There just isnt any argument that FEMA was created for JUST THIS KIND OF EMERGENCY, one which would obviously swamp the resources of a state like Louisiana. That is plain fact, its not reasonably in dispute. FEMA failed badly in what THEY were supposed to do. Even IF Louisiana had done a magnificent job, an argument I am not making, it would STILL have been a catastrophe that needed Federal involvement and FEMA failed. Also while the state gov of Louisiana isnt something I have any real imput in living in Arizona, nor a government I will need to save ME, that is not the case with FEMA if the volcano that I live at the foot of blows I want to be able to rely on FEMA, the people of Louisiana ought to take care of THEIR government, I am criticising that part that I want changed and is in MY jurisdiction. The FEDERAL part of it.
Hotlegs, unless you know what you're talking about you really should shut up. Come down to New Orleans sometime and talk to the folks here if you want to learn the real deal.
Hmmm, let me see now! It was the State of Louisiana that sent in contaminated treailers, left a bunch of trailers in other states to rot, spent huge sums to house evacuees on a cruise boat, stopped the president from landing in the area as he flew back to DC, screwed up sending money to Louisiana in a timely manner, who hired "you're doung a good job Brownie" the horse lawyer for FEMA, who waited days before sending in the Coast Guard. The saddest thing this President did was ignore the horrors of New Orleans and all of Louisiana when everyone was stunned by the enormity of the problem.
I was in Valdez, Alaska during the 1964 earthquake and the Tsunami and although I used to be a Republican, I shall never forget the way Lyndon Johnson responed to our problems. Nothing has shown up our president for the hack that he is like his discriminatory reaction to the problems of Katrina. Although neither the Mayor not the Governor gave stellar performances, to assume the difference in the response was due to them is a crass statement and one that only this President could allude to. Poor thing, he now has brought up the entire dismal failure of the Feds in this situation. So have at it Hume and Kondrake, but we all know you are shills for this bimbling president.
Partly because the comparison being made here is not apple to apple, the analysis is going to be subjective even if Fox was on the level. When you listen to these people they sound reasonable. When you have a chance to analyze the transcript, the inconsistencies in their arguments appear. But how many of those who viewed this will do that or even hear another person give a differing viewpoint? Unless there is another TV program with roughly the same ratings which champions the other party’s' side, it will eventually be a losing battle, IMO. A fair analysis (as rare as that is) from other programs can't compete with advocacy, over time. On any given issue the Fox people and the radio guys may misplay their hand or just have too little truth on their side. At the end of the day though, the game is rigged. The only way to get the situation back into some form of normalcy is to fight fire with fire. Somehow the Democratic Party needs to find their Murdoch, their Limbaugh (and of course find/create ownership). Even if the Democrats regain full control, what they will be able to get done is comprised by this structural imbalance. It should be job one to alter the field of play. The only way I see that this would become unnecessary would be for the Republican Party to come out and continuously renounce these people. It may seem dispiriting to have to stoop to their level, but the country going all to Hell is the worse alternative.
So, Sammon and Kondracke, if Al-Qaeda had blown up the levees in a terrorist attack, the federal government should have taken a back seat to the state and city officials, because the feds are not supposed to be first responders?
Bad choice of words, 'first responders.' Brings back memories of another disaster, and the promises made afterwards--like a first responder network to get resources to a disaster areas with lightning quickness. Where was it?
Look, boys, it's an emergency. The only thing that matters is results. In a battle, when you find an officer who is screwing things up by moving too slowly or panicking, you relieve them, lock them in a Port-O-San and get someone else, or do it yourself. If someone like Ray Nagin was gettingin the way, a FEMA chief like James Lee Witt would have read him the riot act abd commandeered his office. Because lives are at stake.
But instead we have a colossal screw up that was responsible for American deaths--and then they started to whine and blame everybody but themselves.
An awful lot of Americans saw Katrina as a rehearsal for the next terrorist attack, ant they expected to see, not just the good old American can-do attitude, but something better because 911 changed everything--and instead got a horrifying spectacle which added something 911 didn't--shame. Shame before the world,shame that we suddenly looked like Bangladesh or Honduras,--and shame that our President wouldn't take responsibility. And then the American people looked at the performance in re Katrina, and yurned and look at Iraq. And where they had been giving W the benefit of the doubt, they suddenly saw the same thing: screw-up after screw-up, and an administration frantically kicking up dirt clouds to cover up their incompetent, careless, horribly venal conduct of the war.
It was Katrina that sent Bush's ratings into the cellar and kept them there: after Katrina,nothing worked. Nothing gave him a bounce. and nothing will. And for good reason.
Excellent analysis,,,
To put things in perspective, George W. Bush, as the President of the USA is the most powerful man on earth. I've always thought that if Bush had really wanted to provide immediate help to New Orleans all he had to do was get on the phone to Chertoff the day the levees broke and say "I want to start seeing our people in New Orleans by tomorrow morning and I want to see some reuslts ASAP. Now, if you can't do that you tell me right now and I'll find someone who can."
Likewise, had Bush been sincere about rebuilding New Orleans he could have given that the same kind of urgent priority. But, no, that's not what he did. And he's played the sme kind of infuriating, deceitful politics with us as he does with everything else...coming up short in critical areas but playing deceptive games with the numbers to make it appear that he's done more than he actually has.
Just for one example, when Bush speaks of the millions of dollars (I've lost track of the numbers) "given" to New Orleans he includes in that amount, but neglects to mention the source, the millions in federally managed flood insurance that was paid out to those of us who maintained mandatory flood insurance (although for the vast majority of us flood insurance was grossly insufficient to cover our losses) as required by our mortgage holders. What he neglects to mention is that for many years we have paid very high flood insurance premiums every year. It was insurance and we paid for it. But yet Bush disingenuously adds those payments to the total of federal assistance to make it appear that it was gratuitously given to New Orleans.
Bush also neglects to mention that included in the money he claims he's given to New Orleans are huge sums to favored contractors with no-bid contracts for clean up operations.
Then there's the federally assisted state Road Home program that presently does not have enough money to pay the projected grants to people willing to re-build their homes in New Orleans. If people don't rebuild, if people move away, New Orleans will not return.
And there is the crucial matter of coastal wetlands restoration that would mitigate the force of hurricanes before they reached New Orleans. The major cause of coastal erosion has been the canals dug by oil companies in what used to be the coastal marsh. While campaigning for President in 2000 Bush promised Louisiana he would make coatal restoration a top priority in his administration. He lied. He actually cut the budget for coastal restoration to a tiny fraction of what was expected. Today it would coast the equivalent of about a month in Iraq to rectify the problem. Billion of dollars. A lot of money? Yes. But what is more important, saving New Orleans, saving American citizens, from another disaster or pouring money down Bush's Iraq rat hole because he is either to stupid or too stubborn to get us out and free up money for where it is needed here?
You really have to see New Orleans for yourself to understand both the extent of the destruction and how little has been done. Yes, there is some progress, but you have to see for yourself what constitutes "progress". Contrary to what Rush Limbaugh and others say most of New Orleans is still in a state of destruction. It will take many more years to recover.
If I sound bitter it's because I am...and I am not alone. Even the Republicans I know who once supported Bush spit when they speak his name. In New Orleans you will find the most tenacious, hard-working people anywhere...people who are willing to gut it out to rebuild. But it can't be done without federal help. We're not looking for just a free ride. We've suffered, mainly because our government let us down, starting with the defective levees. And Bush has played games with us and not come through as he should have, and as he promised he would.
Iraq will be the greatest stain on Bush's legacy. But the way he has placed such a low priority on dealing with the Katrina catastrophe should rank right up there with his Iraq misadventure.
Thanks for letting me ventilate...
George W. Bush, as the President of the USA is the most powerful man on earth.
I think this may need to be clarified. George W. Bush, as the President of the USA, has at his disposal the largest concentration of power in the world. The weakness of his mind, unfortunately, has made him the most dangerous man on earth.
I'm just wondering, are people aware that much of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast is still a disaster area? I was just in N.O. and I also spent some time in what's left of the Mississippi Gulf Coast, and I'm sure that many people--maybe even most people outside the area--would be shocked to see what it looks like today. There are whole towns in Mississippi that have been scrubbed off the map, and entire neighborhoods in New Orleans that look like Katrina just hit the day before.
Now rewind to that speech that Bush gave in Jackson Square. Now the next time some 28 percenter takes you to task for calling Bush a liar, think of this and know that you're absolutely right to call him one.
They're now only 24 percenters:
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1624620720071017
"...and entire neighborhoods in New Orleans that look like Katrina just hit the day before."
Exactly...! Vast, extensive areas to be more precise. You really have to see it to believe it. I've seen it from when the water was still nine feet deep and I see it every day. Although to my eye I can see some progress whenever I take people from out of town on the "Katrina Tour" for the first time I see the exact same stunned, dumbffounded looks on their faces. It really is staggering to see what can happen to an American city. I wouldn't wish this on another person on earth but whenever I hear misinformed out of towners complaining about having to bail out New Orleans I always wonder how they would react if a major disaster happened where they live, in their city...in their home.
I wouldn't wish it on anyone either - and my best wishes go out to all who were effected by this and all the other disasters that happen throughout the world.
I will tell you that the last thig I would be doing is sitting around waiting for some government to aid me, and then complaining about it when they don't. Sometimes life sucks - sometimes you have to pack up and start all over again - but at least we live in a country that provides the opportunity to do so.
I believe Katrina did expose one of the biggest failures of our federal government - that too many people have become dependant on it.
And if they cant as many people without resources cant then they just DIE right? Yeah, that is the conservative take. I dont like it much. We HAVE FEMA for a reason and it isnt too much to ask they perform the way they should.
No - I am not proposing anyone just DIE. There will always be indigent, poor, elderly, etc that need assistance and a proper safety net is required for those truely in need. I have often found working through charities, that those who take the first steps to helping themselves most always find help from others along the way.
I believe Katrina did expose one of the biggest failures of our federal government - that too many people have become dependant on it.
Dependent? You're loony-tunes. When the flood comes and destroys everything you own, including your means of earning an income, I know for sure you'll say "Thanks, but no thanks Mr. Government. I'll pull myself up by my extra-large boot straps and make it on my own"
Yeah, right.
What we are talking about right NOW is Katrina and a whole bunch of them DIED. Charities didnt come rescue them. Katrina is in fact exactly the sort of thing Katrina is FOR. So, as long as we are in agreement that those that NEED help are helped, we arent very far apart.
"There will always be indigent, poor, elderly, etc that need assistance and a proper safety net is required for those truely in need."
Yeah, and guess what? They didn't get it. They weren't just sitting around waiting for a handout. They had no choice! You act as though if my house gets blown away in a hurricane, I should just start building another one. Sure, I've got no money, no car, no home and nothing but the clothes on my back and a crying baby in my arms, but I don't need FEMA. I'll just pull myself up by my bootstraps. Right?
Irony, I wish you and your family all the very best in dealing with and improving on "the new normal".
I was glad to see someone note that the Gulf Coast is STILL a disaster zone. I have a dear friend who grew up in Gulfport and now lives in Jackson. She has gone to the coast with her teenagers every weekend since Katrina hit to do volunteer work. My daughter, some of her school mates and I spent 10 days on the coast last spring working. The devastation left us all feeling shell shocked. I know that as of this July there were still areas in Mississippi and Louisiana that did not have running water or utilities. This is a disgrace.
The attitudes spewed by that soulless pseudohuman troll are a large part of the reason WHY this disgrace continues.
It was a terrible disaster and a learning experience for all Americans. I think that the federal government could have done a better job. I also believe that the state and local governments probably could have done a better job too. This is a prime example of why there should be limited government outside of natural disasters, extreme cases of poverty, and to protect our basic rights and freedoms.
I read all these posts on here on this topic, and frankly, some of them make me sick. Right wing people referring to other people as human waste is flat out wrong. Left wing people - accept the fact that people need to be responsible for themselves because the government is not your nanny. Both sides are making arguments out of pure political propaganda, and none of it is accurate.
What is accurate is that the state and local governments are the first line of defense, flat out. Like it or not, thats the truth. If you are going to blame anyone for the city not being ready to deal with the hurricane, and not being able to save enough people during and immediately following the hurricane, there are two sources to blame: the individuals themselves for not taking their own action, and the state & local government for not preparing the people and the city.
The federal government does not just barge in like some people here are expecting them to, similar to the California fires. But more importantly, you overlook how much the rest of the nation did to help the city of New Orleans - both republicans & democrats alike.
It really makes me sick that politicians and the media (yes MM, you are included in this) are politicizing a catastrophic event that left many people dead. Do NOT use this as political propaganda to promote your party's want to take seat in the white house - if so, you are becoming your own worst enemy. It seems to be a bucking trend lately, using horrible events to promote political agendas - the CA fires & global warming, the CA fires & linking that to troops in Iraq. Niether of these agendas have any relevance what so ever with the CA fires, and the citizens see through this. If you are going to pick subjects to politicize, do not do it in times that people are suffering from natural disasters, because you make me sick.
However, if you really believe that politicizing it is correct and that doing so is making a good name for democrats in new orleans, while discreditting the republican party, then maybe you can address just why the state of Louisianna elected a republican governor and why the state is showing an overwhelming trend of supporting the right wing.
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10024699
Beautifully said!
You don't seem to understand the purpose of FEMA (FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY- see that "FEDERAL" part?). Learn about it- read Solon's post earlier re this and state and local power, because you're the one that is posting inaccuracies.
Learn something before you sanctimoniously lecture people like they're children and you are the wise, know-all professor, OK? Thanks- you're not talking to a bunch of morons here. With the exception of a few posters, that is.
The left understands VERY WELL that the gov't is not your mommy- nice strawman conservative talking point you got there. I wonder if you even realize it.
The left just expects some return for our tax investments, OTHER than never-ending war, that is.
What do you think our federal tax dollars should pay for, if not disaster relief? Our gov't (state, local, or federal) is supposed to be operating with OUR best interests at heart- they ARE our employees, after all. When they start operating for their own sake and own agenda, we're all in very big trouble.
There's plenty of blame to go 'round, but the federal response was nothing less than shamefully inadequate, and continues to this day as it's STILL a disaster area. FEMA was systematically destroyed by the Bush Administration- that's fact. Those that don't believe that government can work shouldn't be placed in charge of it, obviously. A lesson that we should've learned long ago. Unfortunately, we've got an entire generation of people that haven't ever seen firsthand what good Government can do for them. This is by design, of course.
The attempts to furiously rewrite history to dishonestly excuse the Bush Administration are already underway. Don't help. The Guitar-strumming and birthday photo ops while NO was drowning *should've* told you all you needed to know.
Sadly, some are really slow to open their eyes to reality.
This could EASILY have been any one of our home cities- THAT'S what all Americans need to realize.
Besides bashing an administration that you do not like, and attacking right wing conservatives with your interpretation of FEMA and what they should do, did you plan on addressing my actual post - politicizing disasters, self responsibility, praising people who helped, political innacurracies for agenda, and the current state of Louisianna turning republican?
Its great that you can bash FEMA - why don't you go work for them if you want to change it? Instead of being negative about everything from one political side, why not try to look at things from both sides. Also, you want something for your tax dollar? The democrats are the ones who keep increasing taxes - so tell me, what do i get out of my tax dollar? Im very happy with my taxes going to our national security, you however are not.
MrDumassBush
You may be couching your criticism in a patina of being above it all but at its bottom you are STILL snivelling that we are actually holding the Bush administration accountable for their disasterous incompetence. I would remind you that since the President works for me that is certainly my right. I think you must not be too bright if you think the war in Iraq has something to do with out national security but that is YOUR right. I am glad MY tax dollars go to helping those in dire need because of huge natutal disaters I dont care if you do or not, they are my taxes too. I love to read the irony of someone coming in here whining piteously that we are holding OUR government accountable for incompetence telling us its a terrible thing to politicise a disaster AS IF that isnt what Kondrake and Salmon were doing which was the topic of the thread. As if that isnt what YOU are doing trying desperatly to tell US all the reasons why we should not criticise a President WHO WORKS FOR US. Feel free to hide your head in the sand. Feel free to carry Bush water and PRETEND its all the fault of the people of Louisiana and the Bush administration is just an innocent bystander. We prefer the reality based universe here. You ought to visit us someday.
LOL again - none of this rambling & personal attacks have anything to do with what I said. I bashed both political parties for not doing a good job, and creating political mess out of a disaster in which their back & forth agenda's should be left out of it.
I may not get anywhere arguing with you, but you still throw like a girl....sissy boy. lol
So YOU say. I think I answered it and dont really see any personal attacks at least not in any larger proportion to what YOU were levelling. IF you are saying all levels of government deserve criticism I am not saying different. Yet you seem to be trying to minimize if not discredit any attacks on the Federal government and hone in on the local gov. I am not buying that MrDumbassBush
MrDumbassBush
It really is as simple as the FACT this kind of catastrophe requires far too many resources for a state like Louisiana to handle themselves it was for THIS reason FEMA was created. There is enough blame to go around but its just DUMB to pretend the Federal government shouldnt be looked to for help in EXACTLY this situation. They should that is WHY THERE IS A FEMA. This disaster didnt make Democrats look good. It just showed how little Bush CARED and how bad it is to put completly incompetent people in places of power because they are friends with one of the guys who raised money for you.
Mark Levin, is that you?
Rabbit poop eater, is that you?
conservativeMORON why do you want to know?
Besides bashing an administration that you do not like, and attacking right wing conservatives with your interpretation of FEMA and what they should do, did you plan on addressing my actual post - politicizing disasters, self responsibility, praising people who helped, political innacurracies for agenda, and the current state of Louisianna turning republican?
Critique= bashing only to those who are severely insecure
Reviewing the mission statement of a tax funded federal organization is also not defined as an attack by any sane person.
As to "politicizing disasters" I believe you need to take that up with Sammon and Kondracke.
I am continually flabbergasted by those who can not seem to recall the preamble to the Constitution...
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
One would think that the rescue of American citizens from a disaster area would fall under the heading of promoting the general welfare--as assisting them to rebuild their communities and lives would dovetail perfectly with the concept of insuring domestic tranquility.
The government did provide assistance. Late? Sure, I wont argue that point. Could they have done more? Sure, I wont argue that point either. But the fact that you overlook the local & state governments as well as personal responsibility to place sole blame on the Federal government (FEMA) is ridiculous. I dont think the way they handled the evacution was as good as it could have been. But people claiming that Bush abandoned these people on purpose is all b.s. I am making valid arguments to my belief about general topics, then you people come back with personal attacks instead of valid responses to the actual argument at hand.
So again, I ask, are you going to comment the points of my original post - personal responsibility, politicizing disasters (dont just say these two guys who criticize just the Local & State about Katrina - how about B. Boxer on CA Fires & national guard? What about H Reid on CA wildfires? Im not asking for incidents on who has said what because i can go on about that all day long, Im asking your view on whether its right to do), republican taking over the Louisianna, etc.
MrDumbassBush
Who is praising the state Gov? Where did he say the SOLE responsibility was the Feds? Do you plan to populate whole strawman villages with the strawmen you are creating? It is Salmon and Kondrake trying to pretend that the FEDS have little or NO responsibility that is the topic. We are denying this is true.
First, Where did I claim than anyone PRAISED the state or local gov? Exactly, I didnt say that. I said, why are you OVERLOOKING the state and local and placing sole blame on the Fed (FEMA)? I wonder if thats because the State & Local were democratic? Ah, now we are getting somewhere.
Im not defending the federal government or FEMA, what I am doing is placing blame on ALL the factors - local, state, federal, and most of all PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. People need to make decisions for themselves. In this case, people elected to stay in NO against the advisement of state & local officials. True? Yes. Therefore, if the government told them to leave, and they stayed, how is it the governments fault and no fault of the people?
Blaming an administration for unwise personal decisions is a copout of your own responsibilities. There is always someone else to blame, someone else always did it....never take responsibility for you own actions. That is the liberal motto right?
MrDumbassBush
Blaming an administration for unwise personal decisions is a copout of your own responsibilities. There is always someone else to blame, someone else always did it....never take responsibility for you own actions. That is the liberal motto right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
While the conservative motto is if you arent as well off as me shut up and DIE quietly RIGHT? I dont have a problem with blaming all levels of government. Salmon and Kondrake are trying to shift the blame AWAY from the Federal level. That doesnt work for me nor does blaming the VICTIMS of this catastrophe. My point seemed obvious to me. We arent shifting blame FROM the state gov. No one is praising them. They get their fair share of blame. SO DOES THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. If you agree we dont have that big a difference of opinion.
Let see Mr. Dingy, who shall we blame?
The city? Well, by gosh, it was under 10 feet of water.
The state? Well, gee whiz, most of their National Guard troops and equipment are overseas.
The Feds? Ding ding ding!! We have a winner.
Dingy, you're doing a heck of a job (showing how ignorant you are)
Fortunately there are millions of Americans who care enough to have donated time, resources and money to help the people of NO. That includes liberals and conservatives. The important thing is that most Americans are good-natured.
Yes, I agree. Those idiots without cars should have just walked out of the city. All those elderly individuals should have known not to be so feeble and also walked out. They probably could have gotten rides from the other folks in wheelchairs who didn't have motorized transportation. If they did all have cars, those poor morons probably would have made a giant parking lot on I10, I55 and 190 like those idiots in Houston, b/c they wouldn't have known to evacuate in stages like everyone else does. I can't believe the local and state officials couldn't do more when the worst manmade (i.e. levees) disaster in our nation's history landed right on top of them. How dare they not be able to create the funds needed for massive public transportation that would be needed once maybe. Why didn't anybody foresee that they would need to have cars that could drive on top of water. Why didn't the citizens do more when Nagin went on TV a year before and held a press conference stating the city of NO had no way to evacuate all those w/o transportation if a major hurricane hit the city directly. WHY DIDN'T THEY START SAVING FOR A CAR THEN! Why does everyone have to blame the Flybyer in Chief or the Heckavajob Horse Judge or the Secretary of Shoe Shopping or the Federal Emergency Management for Stopping Citizens (100s if not 1000s) with Private Boats Lined Up in Neighboring Parishes From Going In Agency when everybody knows it was the Democrats.
Blaming an administration for unwise personal decisions is a copout of your own responsibilities. There is always someone else to blame, someone else always did it....never take responsibility for you own actions. That is the liberal motto right? -- MrDingyReid
From Wikipedia: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. Often, the straw man is set up to deliberately overstate the opponent's position.
Solon already called you out on making various straw man arguments, but you continue to do so with no shame. So right there is a good definition of it. Now stop embarrassing yourself and frustrating others.
Furthermore, you are being terribly disingenuous. You initially came in riding on your high horse, faking sanctimonious outrage and trying to lecture both sides, as if you were some neutral observer capable of seeing matters in a fair way. This is what you actually said in your first post "Both sides are making arguments out of pure political propaganda, and none of it is accurate."
Then you have the nerve to claim (falsely) that never taking responsibility is a "liberal motto"! That is both political propaganda AND totally inaccurate. You are nothing more than a hypocrite.
But the fact that you overlook the local & state governments as well as personal responsibility to place sole blame on the Federal government (FEMA) is ridiculous.
You didn't even read the article, did you?
Following Hurricane Betsy in 1965 much of St. Bernard parish and some of Orleans parish were flooded by strom surge moving from the east into Lake Borgne & Lake Ponchatrain. Plans were made for levees etc. to prevent this. Environmental groups blocked the effort, but being a sacred cow they should never be held accountable for their actions. In any case pro and anti media matters people should venture to New Orleans. I spent last weekend there & I still love the place. Come down tour the damaged areas, but enjoy the Quarter, the food, the music etc. Your visit will help the city rebuild and help put its people back to work.