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CNN's Henry uncritically reported Republicans' use of wildfire response to shift Katrina blame away from feds

October 29, 2007 12:12 pm ET

Trouble viewing clip? Download: QT | WMV

SUMMARY: CNN's Ed Henry uncritically reported that "local Republicans hammered the point that, unlike in Louisiana, California officials only relied on the feds for the secondary help," quoting Republican Rep. Brian Bilbray as saying, "I think that's how the system's actually designed, and it's worked great." But the House Select Bipartisan Committee to Investigate the Preparation for and Response to Hurricane Katrina found that Katrina was not a "normal" disaster, but a "catastrophic" one; thus, federal officials should have "clearly and forcefully instruct[ed] everyone involved with the federal response to be proactive, anticipate future requirements, develop plans to fulfill them, and execute those plans without waiting for formal requests from overwhelmed state and local response officials."

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On the October 25 edition of CNN's The Situation Room, CNN White House correspondent Ed Henry uncritically reported that "local Republicans hammered the point that, unlike in Louisiana, California officials only relied on the feds for the secondary help." He then quoted Rep. Brian Bilbray (R-CA), who said, "In San Diego, they didn't wait for the federal government to show up. They got the job done as much as they could locally, and then used federal assistance as a supplement. So I think that's how the system's actually designed, and it's worked great." However, Henry did not mention that the House Select Bipartisan Committee to Investigate the Preparation for and Response to Hurricane Katrina, which released its final report on February 15, 2006, found that while normal disaster response in the U.S. calls for state and local officials to coordinate and lead, and federal officials to provide aid as requested, Katrina was not a "normal" disaster, but a "catastrophic" one. In that situation, the House committee found, federal officials -- as the federal government's own disaster response plan stated -- should have "clearly and forcefully instruct[ed] everyone involved with the federal response to be proactive, anticipate future requirements, develop plans to fulfill them, and execute those plans without waiting for formal requests from overwhelmed state and local response officials."

By contrast, an October 25 Washington Post article reported crucial differences between the scope of the Katrina disaster and the wildfires. According to the article, "[f]ederal and state emergency managers" said that "the two disasters [Katrina and the current wildfire outbreak] can hardly be compared. Katrina's floods and winds wreaked havoc on a far larger scale." The article reported that "the Federal Emergency Management Agency's responsibilities for battling wildfires are far more limited than its role in dealing with hurricane damage," as well as other critical differences:

While Katrina's vast floods and winds covered an area the size of Britain at 90,000 square miles, fires in seven California counties blackened about 700 square miles as of yesterday -- a footprint one-third smaller than wildfires burned there four years ago. The number of homes destroyed was about 1 percent of the 300,000 made uninhabitable by Katrina, and financial losses were less than 2 percent, based on initial estimates, comparable to the damage caused by wildfires in Oakland in 1991 and in Southern California in 2003.

Local officials have choreographed the largest evacuation in Golden State history, with estimates of the people instructed to leave their homes at 351,000. But many began returning yesterday. Katrina prompted the evacuation of 1.1 million people, and 500,000 were still displaced after four months.

As White House spokeswoman Dana M. Perino said, "These fires are not the same disaster that we had in Katrina."

As Media Matters for America noted, the House committee's report concluded that "[i]n essence, ... while a national emergency management system that relies on state and local governments to identify needs and request resources is adequate for most disasters, a catastrophic disaster like Katrina can and did overwhelm most aspects of the system for an initial period of time." The committee further found that:

  • A proactive federal response, or push system, is not a new concept, but it is rarely utilized.
  • The Secretary [of Homeland Security] should have invoked the Catastrophic Incident Annex to direct the federal response posture to fully switch from a reactive to proactive mode of operations.

Elaborating on the latter point, the committee -- while not excusing state and local officials for their actions -- faulted the federal government's failure to act without formal state and local requests, as the Department of Homeland Security National Reponse Plan's Catastrophic Incident Annex (NRP-CIA) called for. The committee report stated:

Perhaps the single most important question the Select Committee has struggled to answer is why the federal response did not adequately anticipate the consequences of Katrina striking New Orleans and, prior to landfall, begin to develop plans and move boats and buses into the area to rescue and evacuate tens of thousand [sic] of victims from a flooded city. At least part of the answer lies in the Secretary's failure to invoke the NRP-CIA, to clearly and forcefully instruct everyone involved with the federal response to be proactive, anticipate future requirements, develop plans to fulfill them, and execute those plans without waiting for formal requests from overwhelmed state and local response officials.

The NRP-CIA was specifically written for a disaster such as Katrina. According to the NRP:

  • A catastrophic incident results in large numbers of casualties and displaced persons.
  • The incident may cause significant disruption to the area's critical infrastructure.
  • A credible operating picture may not be achievable for 24 to 48 hours or longer. As a result, response activities must begin without the benefit of a complete needs assessment.
  • Federal support must be provided in a timely manner to save lives, prevent human suffering, and mitigate severe damage. This may require mobilizing and deploying assets before they are requested via normal NRP protocols.
  • Large-scale evacuations, organized or self-directed may occur.
  • Large numbers of people may be left homeless and may require prolonged temporary housing.

It is clear the consequences of Hurricane Katrina exceeded all of these criteria and required a proactive response. According to the NRP, "Upon recognition that a catastrophic incident condition (e.g. involving mass casualties and/or mass evacuation) exists, the Secretary of DHS immediately designates the event an INS and begins, potentially in advance of a formal Presidential disaster declaration, implementation of the NRP-CIA." On Monday evening, when DHS received reports the levees had breached in multiple locations, it should have been clear to the department the nation's worst case hurricane scenario had occurred and a proactive federal response was required. Chertoff never invoked the NRP-CIA.

From the 7 p.m. ET segment of the October 25 edition of CNN's The Situation Room:

WOLF BLITZER (host): Tonight, President Bush is promising quick help to California's fire victims after getting a firsthand look at what he calls a sad situation. His trip to the fire zone is raising more questions about the federal government's response now compared to Hurricane Katrina then. Our White House correspondent Ed Henry is traveling with the president.

[begin video clip]

HENRY: Aboard Marine One, President Bush flew over homes charred to the ground. But unlike his Hurricane Katrina flyover, which fed an image of being out of touch, Mr. Bush actually touched down in Southern California.

BUSH: We're not going to forget you in Washington, D.C.

HENRY: The comforter-in-chief consoling Jay and Kendra Jeffcoat. All they have left is the remnants of a spiral staircase and a cocker spaniel named Trevor. Amid the devastation, the president dismissed comparisons between Katrina and the wildfires.

BUSH: There's all kinds of time for historians to compare this response or that response.

HENRY: But in part, this was about trying to exorcise the demons of Katrina. So after a critical endorsement from popular Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger --

SCHWARZENEGGER: I want to say thank you, first of all, to President Bush for his tremendous support and for his immediate help in this terrible disaster.

HENRY: -- the president returned the favor with a broadside at Louisiana's Democratic governor, Kathleen Blanco.

BUSH: It makes a significant difference when you have somebody in the statehouse willing to take the lead.

HENRY: There were also images of the president embracing first responders and briefings showing a commander in chief in charge, all carefully orchestrated to show this time the president is fully engaged. And local Republicans hammered the point that unlike in Louisiana, California officials only relied on the feds for secondary help.

BILBRAY: In San Diego, they didn't wait for the federal government to show up. They got the job done as much as they could locally, and then used federal assistance as a supplement. So I think that's how the system's actually designed, and it's worked great.

HENRY: Officials here say this could be a blueprint for communities around the country in terms of disaster preparedness: Locals taking the lead, the federal government finishing the job. Ed Henry, CNN, with the president in San Diego.

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    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (October 29, 2007 12:19 pm ET)
         

      The disaster was catastrophic after it happened, because it caused the levees to break. The fed was responsible for maintaining those levees, thus they are responsible for the vast majority of the property damage caused.

      Please don't make it sound like the locals did a "good" job though by any means.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by clams casino (October 29, 2007 12:22 pm ET)
         

      As damaging as these wildfires have been, it should be clear to everyone that comparing this disaster to Katrina and its aftermath is way off base.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by dexteritas0071418 (October 29, 2007 12:38 pm ET)
           

        It really is apples and oranges. It was completely appropriate to praise the Governator and local response, but they didn't need to take a jab at anyone else.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by jkinn4223 (October 29, 2007 11:35 pm ET)
             

          I totally agree.

          This was Bush trying to take a positive outcome that  this disaster was better because local officials were easier to work with. This was cheap shot taken at the State of Louisiana's and City of New Orleans Governments by blaming the bad response on them.  If Grey Davis was still Governor of California I'm sure Bush wouldn't be praising him.

          The points being missed here are...

          • Katrina was a Catastrophic Event that reduced a whole region.
          • The people in this area had access to transportation to leave the fire stricken areas.
          • Need to stress what went right and what was learned from the disaster.
          • Should housing developments be built in area's that are prone to wildfires?
          • What changes in Housing and Fire Codes need to be made (or bans).
          • What are the climate change factors involved.
          I guess focusing on GW taking shots at Democrats sells more commercial time to the Oil Companies.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 12:49 pm ET)
           

        Exactly. The federal government is totally to blame for katrina. They should have followed through on their commitments and made those levees meet the specifications, they chose to nickle and dime the program to death. But if there were a comparison, it would be that Bush is also responsible for California not having their traditional resources available due to the national guard being out of country.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by dexteritas0071418 (October 29, 2007 12:56 pm ET)
             

          There's no comparison. Arsonists are to blame for the CA fires, along with the prevailing winds.

          At some point, we can also say "hey, we may have messed that recovery up, but we didn't create the hurricane and didnt' set the fires and blow on them."

          Report Abuse
        • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 1:01 pm ET)
             

          The federal government may be to blame for the levees but the people of NO are to blame for putting themselves in that situation. Everyone knew the levees were weak. That place should have been a ghost town years ago and especially days before Katrina hit.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 1:08 pm ET)
               

            Yeah, that makes total sense. They shoulda turned NO into a ghost town because they knew the levees were weak. Heck, we should also evacuate CA because they know major fires occur there every year. Heck, let's not forget Kansas and tornados. Or Florida and hurricanes. Boy, I'm sure glad you piped in, we'da never figgered it out without your vast knowledge to guide us.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by dexteritas0071418 (October 29, 2007 1:16 pm ET)
                 

              Snoop, while people still choose to do it, I think there's a strong logical argument for not building your house in a bowl OR on a fault line. It's still the hurricane's OR earthquakes's fault, but don't act like people don't know where they live.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 1:21 pm ET)
                   

                I disagree because most homes or businesses for that matter aren't built by individuals. They are built by developers. Why aren't they ever mentioned when the finger pointing starts?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by dexteritas0071418 (October 29, 2007 1:32 pm ET)
                     

                  BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE TO BUY THE HOMES TO LIVE IN THEM, OR WAS HOUSING JUST ASSIGNED IN CALIFORNIA AND LOUISIANA?

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by NGOfficer (October 29, 2007 1:36 pm ET)
                       

                    people lived in the 9th ward because it was the only place they could afford

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 2:02 pm ET)
                         

                      I am sure there are plenty of other cheap places to live outside of NO. Oh, my bad. I guess they wouldn't be able to get to those other places, would they? There are no cars in NO. There is no bus transportation out of NO. Wahh!!

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by NGOfficer (October 29, 2007 2:12 pm ET)
                           

                        you must be drinking some potent Kool Aid. You seem to assume every person living in the poorest neighborhood in NO had a car? Amazing

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 2:16 pm ET)
                           

                        Let me guess, you're a conservative christian, right?

                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 1:41 pm ET)
                       

                    Well then, you should be blaming business owners for putting their factories there too, shouldn't you? Or is it just the schmucks who take a job at that place of work who are to blame?

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by clams casino (October 29, 2007 1:53 pm ET)
                       

                    New Orleans has been around for hundreds of years and so have many families who still live there. There are houses there that are older than most cities. It's beyond ignorant to suggest that the blame should go to those who live there. Not to mention that even if everyone <i>wanted</i> to move somewhere else, most are not financially able to.

                    Report Abuse
                • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 1:34 pm ET)
                     

                  There is a town in Pittsburgh, established over 100 years ago (Millvale) which gets flooded frequently due to development of property 4-5 miles away. Local jurisdictions do not apprise one another of what they are doing and i just begs for flooding to occur, DOWNSTREAM. Having friend who have lived there for 30 years, should they be forced to move because of the ineptness of those upstream? They are at the mercy of the builders.

                  In 2004, Pres Bush even showed up and told them to rebuild and pull up their bootstraps. They did and this past summer got flood out three times. At that point, the Feds decided to do something. for about two weeks and nothing since.

                  They have been offered money for their property but it doesn't pay-off their loans on the homes. How can they move? OR, should something be done upstream? Families have lived there for generations

                  Report Abuse
              • Author by captfoster2 (October 29, 2007 3:02 pm ET)
                   

                DEX,

                Since you brought it up......

                If people should not knowingly build a home in a 'bowl' or on a 'fault' line........ then were exactly should we be building our homes then?

                Natural disasters (hurricanes/fires) and un-natural (leeves breaking) happen in every corner of this country?

                Tornado alley (where I live within) covers almost 1/3 of this country?  Should we all move away because of the potential?

                Hurricanes, floods, mass blizzards in the NE and Rockies, drought in the SE......

                Where do you suppose any of us could go to avoid Mother Earth's wrath? Which could hit at anytime or never?

                It seems to me that those in here that show sympathy and compassion are progressive/liberal or moderate

                Yet those that blame others that happen to live where a disaster strikes, say its either "their fault" or "oh well, bad luck on you" or "too bad, but my taxes shouldn't help my fellow citizens in a time of need" or "your on your own".....

                These people claim to be compassionate conservatives?

                With citizens like you around, who needs enemies from elsewhere!

                Report Abuse
                • Author by dexteritas0071418 (October 29, 2007 3:06 pm ET)
                     

                  I IN NO WAY implied that if CaptFoster loses his home that used the San Andreas fault as a fence, that he should not be afforded federal assistance. I just don't want to hear about these horrible unexpected tragedies coming from out of the blue or something.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by commonsenseliberal (October 29, 2007 4:59 pm ET)
                       

                    Actually, the phrase 'out of the blue' implies that no warning of an impending disaster is given.  An earthquake is a perfect example of a disaster that happens 'out of the blue'.  Storms which are tracked by radar, doppler (or whatever) cannot be considered 'out of the blue'.

                    For those of you wondering about fault lines, there are many other fault lines across the U.S., other than here in the SF Bay Area.  Don't forget years ago the New Madrid fault that once (barely) shook Kansas City, MO. There are others as well (I believe there's also a fault line in the MO bootheel, but I could be wrong).

                    I live on the San Andreas fault (not technically RIGHT on it, but next to it).  Earthquake insurance is extremely expensive, but worth every penny.

                    I choose to live here.  I could choose to live back in Kansas where I was born (and endure tornadoes and blizzards).  Wherever you live, Mother Nature can take you out.  In my opinion, your best bet is good insurance, wherever you are.

                     

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by darkmass (October 29, 2007 9:23 pm ET)
                         

                      "For those of you wondering about fault lines, there are many other fault lines across the U.S., other than here in the SF Bay Area.  Don't forget years ago the New Madrid fault that once (barely) shook Kansas City, MO." - Commonsenseliberal

                      Actually, the New Madrid fault is a *much* more serious piece of work than your statement implies.

                      From this page: http://www.scchealth.org/docs/ems/docs/prepare/newMadrid.html

                      "THE GREAT NEW MADRID EARTHQUAKE OF 1811-1812 was actually a series of over 2000 shocks in five months, five of which were 8.0 or more in magnitude. Eighteen of these rang church bells on the Eastern seaboard. The very land itself was destroyed in the Missouri Bootheel, making it unfit even for farmers for many years. It was the largest burst of seismic energy east of the Rocky Mountains in the history of the United States and was several times larger than the San Francisco quake of 1906." Any midwest earthquake that can ring churchbells on the east coast kinda gets a persons attention.  Also, I saw on a USGS page that at the time the flow of the Mississippi River was reversed.  This was not a one-shot, it's just a matter of time till more of that happens...and earthquake preparedness, in particular building for earthquakes, is just not in the culture of the area.

                      But then...something happens everyplace.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by commonsenseliberal (October 30, 2007 11:57 am ET)
                           

                        Your post is definitely correct.  While I mentioned that the New Madrid fault (barely) shook KCMO years ago, I actually meant in the recent past, not 1811-1812.  Sorry for the confusion.

                        You're also correct that such a devastating earthquake is not a one shot deal.  Another is waiting in the wings.  Goodness knows when it will strike - "out of the blue".

                        Report Abuse
            • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 1:59 pm ET)
                 

              If fires and tornadoes were as predictable as living next to a weak failing concrete wall containing billions of gallons of water then sure people would move out of those areas. But hey, the people in CA were at least smart enough to evacuate even though the fires were as unpredictable as the mamouth hurricane headed right to NO 2 years ago. "Hey man... turn on the Weather Channel. I think that huge-ass hurricane is headed right for us. Do you think there is a chance it will turn 180 degrees just before it makes landfall? I know we have been watching it heading for us for several days now but I just don't think it is going to make landfall. Anyways, I don't have a sweet ride out of town. I guess I am a victim of George Bush and all of his Republican supporters who don't do anything but listen to Rush!"

              Report Abuse
              • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 2:18 pm ET)
                   

                Keep talking, it's entertaining watching you bury your head deeper and deeper up Rush's pimple.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 2:21 pm ET)
                     

                  I guess that was the only thing you could say since you have been outdone. Typical of a liberal to get nasty when you have nothing else to say. You lose.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 2:25 pm ET)
                       

                    Outdone by the likes of you? Hardly. Funny you mention nasty, considering you started out being nasty. Typical con, "oh, you are getting nasty", boo friggin hoo. You not only lost, you are a total loser!

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by finarfin (October 29, 2007 9:19 pm ET)
                         

                      wow, snoopy. you have tripped over your own tail trying to regain your dignity.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by solon (October 29, 2007 11:31 pm ET)
                           

                        You guys are so desperate to pat each other on the back. Ya got nothin. If a rightwingnut ever made an actual cogent point here and even held his own in a debate Rush would probably trumpet it on his show. Since that is likely to happen about the same time I marry Jessica Simpson and we fly to a moon of Saturn on our honeymoon, I guess we will never know.

                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by roundhouse (October 29, 2007 6:46 pm ET)
                       

                    The 9th ward is a community that extends well beyond the limits of New Orleans. It is a community that reaches beyond the state line of Louisiana and covers the entire country. It is an American community, which means it's a place not so different from where you live and where I live.

                    Just like New York in September, when they hurt we all hurt.

                    This country is a network of interconnected neighbors and families. And when a radical minority comes along preaching, "I got mine, now you get yours," that's the stuff that pits neighbor against neighbor, thus destroying the fundamental American values of family and community.

                    Just keep it up Fluge, keep showing us all how anti-American the conservative worldview is.

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (October 29, 2007 7:47 pm ET)
                       

                    I've seen fruitflies smarter than you. Spewing delusional hivemind propaganda isnt fooling or even entertaining anyone here. We have been over all this before. We have heard the Limborg spin and its just boring to keep swatting it away. The only thing you are in any danger of winning is dumbest poster of the day award.

                    Report Abuse
              • Author by mary59 (October 29, 2007 5:34 pm ET)
                   

                Floods & wildfires...earthquakes.  Droughts.  Earth is a wonderful but continually shifting place to live.  Each one of us could find ourselves homeless in an instant.  Would it be helpful to have someone else sitting ignorantly on the sidelines telling us that we should have known better?

                Report Abuse
              • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (October 30, 2007 1:33 am ET)
                   

                "Hey man... turn on the Weather Channel. I think that huge-ass hurricane is headed right for us. Do you think there is a chance it will turn 180 degrees just before it makes landfall? I know we have been watching it heading for us for several days now but I just don't think it is going to make landfall. Anyways, I don't have a sweet ride out of town. I guess I am a victim of George Bush and all of his Republican supporters who don't do anything but listen to Rush!" Fluggegecheimen

                LOL

                You might want to have told Junior to “Hey man turn on the Weather Channel’ as well.

                VARGAS: When you look back on those days immediately following when Katrina struck, what moment do you think was the moment that you realized that the government was failing, especially the people of New Orleans?

                BUSH: When I saw TV reporters interviewing people who were screaming for help. It looked — the scenes looked chaotic and desperate. And I realized that our government was — could have done a better job of comforting people.

                According to Bush, he didn’t realize there was anything wrong with the administration’s response until almost four days after the hurricane. The first time he saw newscasts of the situation on the ground was on the morning of Sept. 2, when White HouseCounselor [Dan] Bartlett made up a DVD of the newscasts so Bush could see them in their entirety as he flew down to the Gulf Coast the next morning on Air Force One.”

                 

                Report Abuse
            • Author by Cartoon Messiah (October 29, 2007 7:54 pm ET)
                 

              Agree, snoopy.

              I get really tired of hearing this b.t.v. baloney of "people shouldn't live in places like that". The fact of the matter is, folks, that we all live on vast, shifting masses called tectonic plates, that basically float atop thousands of miles of lava, on a ball of dirt that is just close enough to the sun so that it doesn't freeze, and just far enough away so that it doesn't sear. Life, by its very nature, is precarious, and this idea that living safely is living wisely is pure folly.

              Or, as one wise fellow said. "For believe me, the secret of the greatest fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment of existence is: to live dangerously! Build your cities under Vesuvius! Send your ships unto uncharted seas!"

              Report Abuse
          • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 1:52 pm ET)
               

            Then perhaps the nation should insist on shutting down Southern California rather than spending one dime of federal assistance as damaging wild fires are predicatably recurring events there.  What's the point of rebuilding homes in Malibu and San Diego if they might burn up again next year? That's the same argument as some morons apply to New Orleans...

            Report Abuse
          • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 1:55 pm ET)
               

            "Everyone knew the levees were weak."

            Really, Flugg? Wow...! I lived just a few blocks from the 17th Street Canal for over 20 years and no one told me that the levees were subject to collapse in a Category 3 hurricane...which Katrina was. Maybe I wasn't home when they called to tell me...

            Report Abuse
            • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 2:04 pm ET)
                 

              Hey, Flugg, check out this article in this morning's USAToday...

              http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-28-nola_N.htm

              It says:

              Katrina hit in August 2005 as a Category 3 hurricane on the five-step measurement scale, a magnitude that area flood controls were expected to handle.

              Just thought you'd like to be correctly informed... 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 2:19 pm ET)
                   

                Don't believe everything you read. The people of NO were told days ahead of time to evacuate due to the severe nature of the storm. Oh and if what you say is true... then the levees should have performed perfectly and George Bush didn't need to pump additional funds into improving the levees. Clearly the levees were weak and could not handle this storm as the attached info explains.

                Analysis of New Orleans levee failures Main article: 2005 levee failures in Greater New Orleans A June 2007 report released by the American Society of Civil Engineers states that the failures of the federally built levees in New Orleans' were found to be primarily the result of system design flaws.[113] The US Army Corps of Engineers who by federal mandate is responsible for the conception, design and construction of the region's flood-control system failed to pay sufficient attention to public safety.

                According to new modeling and field observations by a team from Louisiana State University, the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet (MRGO), a 200-meter (660 ft) wide canal designed to provide a shortcut from New Orleans to the Gulf of Mexico, helped provide a funnel for the storm surge, making it 20% higher and 100%-200% faster as it crashed into the city. St. Bernard Parish, one of the more devastated areas, lies just south of the MRGO. The Army Corps of Engineers disputes this causality and maintains Katrina would have overwhelmed the levees with or without the contributing effect of the MRGO.[114]

                On April 5, 2006, months after independent investigators had demonstrated that levee failures were not caused by natural forces beyond intended design strength, Lieutenant General Carl Strock testified before the United States Senate Subcommittee on Energy and Water that "We have now concluded we had problems with the design of the structure."[115] He also testified that the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers did not know of this mechanism of failure prior to August 29, 2005. The claim of ignorance is refuted, however, by the National Science Foundation investigators hired by the Army Corps of Engineers, who point to a 1986 study by the Corps itself that such separations were possible in the I-wall design.[116]

                Everyone knew! Thought you might want to be informed. But again, I guess George Bush is at fault for not fixing the weak levees.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 2:22 pm ET)
                     

                  Again, where do you live?

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 2:45 pm ET)
                       

                    What the heck does that matter. Don't be so naive. You don't need to live in NO to know the history.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 2:47 pm ET)
                         

                      "You don't need to live in NO to know the history."

                      ...which you apparently don't.

                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 2:55 pm ET)
                         

                      Just want to make sure that nothing bad has ever happened in your state. If so, I would take up a collection for your moving van. We so-called liberals help people in that way. It is called having a heart. Try it. Maybe you and THEmarlbooman might like it.

                      Report Abuse
                • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 2:23 pm ET)
                     

                  And you can post proof that they posted that information to the public as far back as 1986, right? No?

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 2:25 pm ET)
                     

                  LOL...you are indeed dumber than dirt.

                  The Corps is acknowledging that their own internal documents relected design flaws and compromise in the levee system. Again, Flugg, because you obviously are impaired with some sort of cognitive deficit...the Corps didn't go public with their knowledge of the defects. Come down to New Orleans and ask everyone you meet if they were aware that the levee system was in a state of potential collapse. You really do not know what you are talking about...

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 2:37 pm ET)
                     

                  George Bush is at fault for:

                  • allowing democrats to hold state & local office in Louisianna, proving they could not do their jobs  (hence why a republican Governor is on the rise!)
                  • not explainging the "Evacuate" message in terms that the poor would understand: leave now or be killed,  dont worry about losing anything because the tax payers will reimburse you
                  • Dont stay in the city to guard home, the insurance company will cover it - unless you decided it was worth the chance not to have it!  whoops.  If it was government housing, definately dont stay, they will rebuild it for free!  You do know the word "FREE" right?

                  Remember - this is a liberal website.  No one in here believes in the phrase "personal responsibility".  Its always someone elses duty to do what you can do yourself:

                  • Katrina is someone elses fault! 
                  • The fires are Global Warmings fault! 
                  • Its not my fault that i dont have a job or make good money - its your fault that you dont want to give me your money.
                  • Its Bush's fault that Floridians cant figure out the voting ballot.
                  • Its the governments fault that our troops are at war, thus leaving only 17,000 national guardsmen available in California alone to fight the fire.  I know we only needed 1500 of them, but that just proves that we are extremely depleated to the point that we cannot function!
                  • Its a private citizens fault (Rush) that we cannot get any success on a.m radio!  He takes all the listeners, so we should institute the Fairness Doctrine to steal away the freedom of speech!  Hey, its not our fault that theres only 1 conservative tv station, we are only talking about radio!
                  • And while we on the Rush subject, its his fault that our moveon.org ad failed so miserably that we needed to TRY and smear him.  Its HIS fault that we wasted all of congress's time trying to condemn a private citizen!
                  • Dont blame Stark for his comments! - no excuses, he just doesnt know any better. 

                  Seriously, you would think the liberals would start being honest and only debating when there is a topic that they can actually win.  Oh well.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 2:40 pm ET)
                       

                    Right on cue with the Rush Limbaugh talking points. Just keep repeating those lines, even if they aren't true it will seem like it to like minded fools.

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 2:41 pm ET)
                       

                    You forgot.... it is George Bushs' fault (lies)that have gotten 3900 of our troops killed for NO reason at all. Make sure you include that in your next post.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 2:45 pm ET)
                         

                      I forgot....it is George Bushs' stupidity and policies that got the Republans destroyed in the last election. Maybe because all the Republans do is goose-step  and do what they are told.

                      You know something, you are probably Rush and just joking...come on now...be honest. Because if not, you are preety much correct in spelling out what the Bushman has done.

                      Report Abuse
                    • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 2:50 pm ET)
                         

                      Okay lets do that:

                      • Its Bushs fault that 3900 of our troops have died protecting the freedoms of the USA that the liberals want to take away!
                      • Its Bush's fault that our liberal leaders want to politicize the Iraq war with everything today - including the Califorina fires.  Funny how the Lt Gov of the State of California was more concerned with politicizing the war to the fires, than he was in how his people were actually doing.
                      • Its Bush's fault that Barbara Boxer comes up with all these crazy ideas.  I bet its also Bush's fault that he is hiding the secret: that Boxer is really an alien from Area 51!
                      • Its Bushs fault that Pelosi & Reid are the worst senate leaders in the history of the democratic party!
                      • Its Bush's faul that Osama attacked us...he wouldnt have done if Clinton was in office!
                      • It was Bushs fault that extreme liberals come up with the 9/11 conspiracy theory!
                      • Its bush's fault that he wont increase taxes to give me more of everyone elses hard earned money for being lazy!
                      • Its bushs fault that the citizens of the US dont see 25 yr olds as Children!
                      • Its bushs fault that we cannot convince anyone that making 80k per year is poverty stricken!

                      Need i go on?!

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 2:54 pm ET)
                           

                        "Its bushs fault that we cannot convince anyone that making 80k per year is poverty stricken!"

                        Hey, Marlboro, show me where S-CHIP is for "poverty stricken" people. It's not. It's for people who make too much to qualify for Medicaid. Maybe you should read more instead of just listening to right wing talk radio.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 2:57 pm ET)
                             

                          I think cancerman takes his cue from this type of mindset. Sound familiar?

                          Report Abuse
                        • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 2:57 pm ET)
                             

                          ....and not enough to afford your own insurance.  Dont leave that part out numbnuts! 

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 3:29 pm ET)
                               

                            There are many middle-class and working class families that cannot afford the cost of independent health insurance coverage if it is not supplied in connection with their employment. S-CHIP was crafted for the benefit of those people, not for poverty strickem people as you incorrectly stated. The $80K threshold to which you allude is not universal but rather only in limited instances in which states having high costs of living have elected a higher qualifying threshold. Glad to help you understand...apology accepted.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:31 pm ET)
                                 

                              Perhaps those people should lower their lifestyle and trade in the SUV & 4bdrm house before I pay their health insurance....

                              Report Abuse
                      • Author by captfoster2 (October 29, 2007 3:22 pm ET)
                           

                        I didn't realize that Bill Clinton wasn't being blamed anymore about all the countries problems....... I guess it was just a matter of time!

                        About time Clinton stopped getting blamed for everything!

                        Of course, since Bush (R) Texas and Cheney (R) Wyoming and the Congress (R) Majority and the Supreme Court (R) Majority and Governerships (R) Majority were in near full charge of this country for SIX 1/2 years.....

                        If they wanted to really change things for the better and make the liberals envious or jealous they could have done so and then some!

                        So, yes, Bush and the Republican party can truely be blamed for many of this countries problems, that they had 6 1/2 years to make it all better and didn't!

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by solon (October 29, 2007 7:52 pm ET)
                           

                        Man you are SOOO stupid and brainwashed. How in the WORLD are soldiers in Iraq protecting my freedom? To take away MY freedom the Iraqis would have had to build rafts float across the Atlantic Ocean, somehow avoiding our Navy invade and take over our country. Now I know you are bone ignorant but even YOU cant believe that was about to happen. Liberals taking away freedoms? You mean like Bush just ignoring the fourth and sixth amendments when he says he will put AMERICAN CITIZENS in jail and never bring them to trial or just wiretapping whoever he wants with NO judicial oversight. I would go on but reading this much of your ignorant propagand has my braincells screaming for the sweet release of a coma.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Missouri Democrat (October 30, 2007 12:20 pm ET)
                             

                          Solon now come on you know Hussein's grand master plan to attack America was to strap WMD's on the backs of camels (with GPS) and have them swim over here and place themselves in strategic places, i.e. harbors, nuke plants and so on, then blow themselves up thereby causing chaos in the USA. Then he would birng his armed hordes over here to indoctrinate us in Islam. ;>) 

                          Report Abuse
                  • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 2:43 pm ET)
                       

                    Hey, Marlboro, we're not blaming you for being such a narrow minded fool...I'm sure your parents must be at fault. Get a lawyer...

                    Report Abuse
            • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 2:07 pm ET)
                 

              Maybe you are uneducated and don't like to read. I don't live in NO and knew that the levees were falling apart. Have you read a book lately? How about a magazine or a newspaper? Did your awesome mayor forget to tell everone about the levees. I thought the fact that the levees were weak was such a hot topic that everyone knew about when it came time to blame George Bush for the levee failure. But when it come to personal responsibility everything changes. Is that what you are telling me? "George Bush knew but nobody told me!"

              Report Abuse
              • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 2:17 pm ET)
                   

                You are grossly misinformed. The citizens of New Orleans were not informed before Katrina that the levee system was in a state of potential collapse. However, the Corps of Engineers apparently knew since about 1994 that the levees were compromised but they didn't tell anyone. Before you suggest that I don't read perhaps you should come to New Orleans and educate yourself...it is you who are uneducaated on the matter so perhaps you may consider keeping your misinformed opinion quiet rather than make a fool of yourself. Or maybe you just can't help yourself...

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 2:42 pm ET)
                     

                  So if they weren't informed of the levees falling apart then I guess it is not George's fault that they fell apart which then means that it wasn't the federal governments fault that people decided to wait for one of the largest hurricanes in history to hit landfall in NO. "Gee... I live below sea level. I guess that I am a victim of my circumstances. I am going to wait for the government to raise the ground below me." Dumbasses, they live below sea level and one of the largest hurricanes in history was headed their way for days. Bleeding heart of the world unite! They are so dependent upon the government for everything. You are all fighting a losing battle. We care. Just not for stupid people.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 2:47 pm ET)
                       

                    Yeah, we're losing so badly that we gained seats in the house and senate last year, are poised to increase those leads by comfortable margins next year, and may take the presidency as well.

                    And you just proved that you don't care about anyone, because people like you think stupid means anyone who doesn't think like you, which is about 75% of the country.

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 2:51 pm ET)
                       

                    "We care. Just not for stupid people."

                    Nothing uglier than a self-hating right wing lunatic...

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 2:56 pm ET)
                         

                      Technically, liberals beleive in Creationism/Darwinish...right?  Encompassed in those theories are adaptation and survival of the fittest.....doesnt that apply to real life?  Successful progress....laziness falls behind.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 3:02 pm ET)
                           

                        Yeah, I guess you can blame us. It was our compassion that let us bring the right wing along into the 21st century. We should have let y'all swing in the wind cause y'all would have never made it on your own.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:06 pm ET)
                             

                          Yes, "y'all" obviously taught us the true english language that allowed us to prosper.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 3:10 pm ET)
                               

                            And we built your roads, educated your ancestors, showed you how to make your farms more productive and developed the science and technology that turned us into a world power while y'all sat around praying and wishing for a theocracy and counting your money.

                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by eweston8542983 (October 29, 2007 3:08 pm ET)
                           

                        Maropolitburo, not many liberals believe in creationism.

                        Social drawinism has a certain chachet in conservative circles as all thats important on this issue.

                        Mutual altruism has a major part in many species sucess, including that of the human race. Somehow this doesn't help suport a thoughly selfish lifestyle, so it is convieniently ignored. 

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by solon (October 29, 2007 8:10 pm ET)
                           

                        You rightwingers believe in that stupid Manichean attitude that everyone who thinks one way politically thinks the same way about everything including religion. There is a word for that kind of thinking... Oh yeah STUPIDITY

                        Report Abuse
                  • Author by clams casino (October 29, 2007 2:57 pm ET)
                       

                    What part of "poor" don't you understand? If you don't have a car or money and you don't have anywhere else to go, you have to try and stick it out. It's the same story whenever a hurricane hits anywhere in the world. The fact that you have no problem with calling all those people stupid only shows us what a compassionate conservative you are.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:13 pm ET)
                         

                      Im compassionate to people who get the short end of the stick on good intentions - for example: people who get killed by drunk drivers, people who get killed by inner city drug dealers, people who have their taxes increased to give to people who are lazy, and im not compassionate to people who who have 3 days to get the F out and sit around for no reason (as if not having a place to go was worse than staying put?).

                      I am NOT compassionate to people who rake in my tax money just because they CAN.  I am not also compassionate to liberals who actually think its right that they take away my tax money.  Liberal stupidity deserves a smack to the back of the head - i would have said a spanking, but you fruitcakes would think you were being praised instead of punished.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 3:19 pm ET)
                           

                        Do you have compassion for the dead soldiers who by the way, VOLUNTEERED? Remember, most of them get a bonus for enlisting, sort of a bribe to be fodder which is your tax dollars at work.       Compassion or not?       And if they wanted to protect their country, why get a bonus? Need your answers to continue.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:26 pm ET)
                             

                          People follow the money - there is a large majority of the armed forced to VOLUNTARILY enlist because they believe in fighting for their country.  Then there are the bad apples who enlist only for the money....but when they are asked by the government to go to war and earn the paycheck, then all hell breaks loose - as noticed by the liberal god send Jesse Macbeth.

                          As far as why are bonuses made available?  Well who doesnt want cash up front for a job?  WHy offer college education money?  They are called benefits - even the military has to compete with employers for employees.  No one is making anyone take the bonus check - its made available, and you choose to take it.

                           However, what the liberals dont seem to understand is that the majority of our (about 60%)military is republican, and believe in the cause in Iraq.  IN fact, the military ranking officers are 66-70% republican and believe in the war in iraq.

                           

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 3:44 pm ET)
                               

                            Bad apples, just say it "the PHONY soldiers", (who also die).  Now I know you are Rush or a wannabe.

                            Also, in an earlier post, you mentioned the "freedoms that liberals want to take away". Which freedoms are mentioned and who mentioned them? I know you are not talking about freedom of privacy.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:47 pm ET)
                                 

                              Bad apples, just say it "the PHONY soldiers", (who also die). 

                              Dont they actually have it to make it past bootcamp, and actually go to war in order to die?  Or are you confusing it with a devastating social death due to stupidity!?

                               

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 3:53 pm ET)
                                   

                                So you are saying that the bad apples who only signup for the bonus never complete bootcamp. Or are you talking only about Mcbeth. You sure you don't want to go back and take out about 130 words before we continue...because unlike the Big Lie of Rush, you can't get away with "bad apples" and blame everything on McBeth who by the way has become the HERO of the Cons. Most liberals never heard of him.

                                Report Abuse
                                • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 4:45 pm ET)
                                     

                                  No, im claiming bad apples, aka phony soldiers, are those who do not actually go to war...yet make up horror stories about the war to get the rest of the people to protest the war for invalid reasons.

                                  Yes, im referring to Jessie Macbeth, and there are others who have done, and do the same thing.  Just not as mainstream or as stupid as Macbeth to give their full information, and go on national tv to lie & get caught.

                                  Report Abuse
                                  • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 6:17 pm ET)
                                       

                                    ah, the ever changing definition of phony soldiers. Thanks for letting us know what this week's definition is.

                                    Report Abuse
                                  • Author by Missouri Democrat (October 30, 2007 12:33 pm ET)
                                       

                                    Moronman I having actually served in the military know that your "facts" are wrong as to only "bad apples" who join the military "don't want to go to war". If you actually knew what you are talking about you would have actually served.  When I was in no enlisted person or officer I knew wanted to go to war simply because of the fact that its a very messy business. I knew several staff NCO's and officers who served during Vietnam and they all said none of them wanted to go to war they did simply because they were ordered toand never wanted to do it again. And to your other boneheaded comment about the "lazy people" living off your tax dollars answer me this Moronman. Is my 12 year old son who has Cerebral Palsy and draws Soc Sec and SSI "lazy"as you claim he is?

                                    Report Abuse
                          • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 3:47 pm ET)
                               

                            P.S. They don't get the entire bonus upfront...as a matter of fact, those who are wounded and unable to perform are not given their full bonus if they can't continue.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 4:52 pm ET)
                                 

                              No they arent given a full up front bonus.  Its called a prorated bonus, or an incentive bonus if you will.  Yes you do get the bonus if you get injured, but you only get a prorated amount if you are honorably discharged early.  But its a contract, you need to finish your contract to get the full benefits of the contract, so i dont see a problem with that.

                               Or the us govt could just give out a full 20k bonus up front to a soldier like Jesse Macbeth who was discharged after 43 days in BOOTCAMP.  Yeah, he sure deserved the whole thing!

                              Report Abuse
                              • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 8:51 pm ET)
                                   

                                Marlboro, you are wrong and a future bill proposed by Rep. Altmeier from Pa. will show you the truth...by the way, it will pass through every house because everyone will agree that some troops are getting screwed. Just keep watching.

                                Report Abuse
                          • Author by mary59 (October 29, 2007 7:36 pm ET)
                               

                             

                            "WASHINGTON — Seventy-two percent of troops on the ground in Iraq think U.S. military forces should get out of the country within a year, according to a Zogby poll released Tuesday.

                            The survey of 944 troops, conducted in Iraq between Jan. 18 and Feb. 14, said that only 23 percent of servicemembers thought U.S. forces should stay “as long as they are needed.”

                            Of the 72 percent, 22 percent said troops should leave within the next six months, and 29 percent said they should withdraw “immediately.” Twenty-one percent said the U.S. military presence should end within a year; 5 percent weren’t sure."

                            http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=34538&archive=true

                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 3:24 pm ET)
                           

                        care for some cheese with that whine? Your money - guess what? We pay taxes too. We can either re-engage in quid pro quo, or if you want to continue being a greedy selfish snot, we'll just turn the tide next year when we control all three houses and we'll proceed to enact only liberal programs. How about that, tough guy?

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:36 pm ET)
                             

                          Thats fine, im a business owner, ill just cut my pay to zero, and take my money because i have so many write offs that i barely pay any tax on my business.

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 3:42 pm ET)
                               

                            Good to know, I'll let em know so they can close those loopholes and raise your taxes to 50% just for the hallibut.

                            Report Abuse
                            • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:53 pm ET)
                                 

                              Hallibut?  I dont sell fish.  I wasn't aware that any seafood or whale products were allowed in the white house since the Lewinski debacle.  Although, I think they may make an ammendment to accept hillarys thighs.

                              Report Abuse
                          • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 3:44 pm ET)
                               

                            "I am not also compassionate to liberals who actually think its right that they take away my tax money."

                            Why are bitching about your tax money if now you say you don't pay taxes? Make up your mind... 

                            Report Abuse
                      • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 3:39 pm ET)
                           

                        "...they take away my tax money."

                        But you're okay with Bush spending hundreds of billions of dollars of our tax money to take out Saddam Hussein because of WMD. Oh wait...there were no WMD.

                        And I guess you're okay with Bush giving tax breaks to the big boys...oil, insurance and pharnaceutical industries, to name just a few?

                        If you are not a multi-millionaire, Democrat or Republican, you're getting screwed so spare me your complaints about your tax dollars.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 5:08 pm ET)
                             

                          And i guess if you are successful, and the new democrats plan forces you to pay 44% in Federal taxes alone, you arent getting screwed?  They work 3 times as hard so they can pay for 3 bums to enslave the economy. 

                          Whats funny is the hypocracy of democrats.  Right now with the war, their statement is: we need to worry about what is happening on american soil, not foreign soil.  True? 

                          If thats the case, then why bother increasing taxes anyone, just stop given foreign aid to help other countries poverty and use it for our own.  Its a win-win....we focus on american soil, the tax payers dont get screwed as much, the lazy bums still get a free ride.  Woohoo!  liberal hypocracy at its finest...

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 6:03 pm ET)
                               

                            Dear cluelessinseattle, you sure do like to create strawman arguments, don't you? Is there anything ever done or written saying dems plan to raise taxes to 45%? Of course not, you just made up a argument to fit your stereotype then proceeded to use it as a means to bash liberals for something they never planned. This is why Republicans are losing, they can't argue on the issues anymore so they reduce debate to strawman arguments, insults and questions about patriotism and looks. You all are so transparently phony, and watching your party self destruct has been entertaining to say the least.

                            Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (October 29, 2007 8:08 pm ET)
                       

                    Ok you are really ignorant we can see that. The levee system is without dispute the federal governments responsibility. By the time Katrina hit New Orleans it was far from the worst hurricane in history. Camille had it beat by quite a bit. The people of New Orleans were NOT told the levees might break it was reported they might be topped. That would have resulted in a few feet of water in the streets which the city pumping system was designed to deal with. Instead of BREAKING which caused the disaster we saw. A real distinction but one you dont care the least bit about. Because YOU only care thing useful for the propaganda you have been TOLD to believe and how to push it. So the suffering of real human beings means NOTHING to you since it isnt useful in shielding Bush from criticism. While blaming the victims of a horrific disaster. You are a heartless, soulless charicature of a human being. A mere shell, hollow, a simulation of a person, without the essential qualities that define us as human like empathy and caring about people other than ourselves. You are piteous.

                    Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (October 30, 2007 5:19 am ET)
                       

                    You get stupider and stupider. Do you think that just making any old argument by stringing words together means something special even when they dont make sense. I understand that you believe ANYTHING the Limborg tells you but you dont think WE are as dumb as YOU do you? Your argument was brutally dumb. So you basically said that since the Army Corp of engineers  didnt tell the people the levees would fail that it isnt the fault of the federal government and by extension the Bush administration they DID fail. Even though there is NO QUESTION the levees were a federal responsibility NOR that Bush diverted money FROM their upkeep to Iraq. Was there a point hidden in the insanity and incoherence of that claim? Maybe nothing is wrong with levees until someone says there is maybe...No there isnt you are an idiot

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Les is more (October 30, 2007 7:16 am ET)
                         

                      Do you have proof that Bush "diverted" money? No? I didn't think so. But keep shovelling.

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by Brabantio (October 30, 2007 9:50 am ET)
                           

                        [After] 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA [Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project] dropped to a trickle. The [Army Corps of Engineeers] never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security — coming at the same time as federal tax cuts — was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.

                        In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.

                        On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: “It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.”

                        Hell, maybe you should just learn to use the Google, maybe?

                        Report Abuse
                      • Author by solon (October 31, 2007 4:47 am ET)
                           

                        Of course I do. It was such a well publicized fact I didnt think I needed to prove the sky is blue. Then again I forgot you hiveminders ONLY know what the Limborg has imprinted you with and what do you know he left that out. Anyway thanks for getting my back there Branbantio. I should have rememered how uninformed the hivemind is.

                        Report Abuse
              • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 2:17 pm ET)
                   

                Fluggeghicn...No one here blamed Bush...we all know that it was Clinton's fault. Which Clinton, pick one?

                I think that following your logic, California should be evacuated because there is an indictation that an earthquake will hit somewhere in that state. Those fools should move. I'm with you Fluggeniege. By the way, where do you live?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by IRONY 101 (October 29, 2007 2:20 pm ET)
                     

                  "...Fluggeniege. By the way, where do you live?"

                  Apparently under a rock...

                  Report Abuse
          • Author by pearlene_scott1602 (October 29, 2007 2:44 pm ET)
               

            Everyone knew the levees were weak. That place should have been a ghost town years ago and especially days before Katrina hit.

            Everyone knows that Oct. and Nov. months in California have Santa Ana winds, right? Using 'your logic' people should not build homes in Malibu, and San Diego country, considering each year they get the Santa Ana winds. When was the last time a levee broke? Let me give you the number of fires in Malibu, Oct. 2007, Jan. 2007, Jan. 2003, Oct. 1996, Nov. 1993, Oct. 1985, 1982 and 1978. Those fires were a result of Santa Ana winds which happen each and every year in California. If we use 'your logic' Malibu should have been a ghost town long ago right?  San Diego fire Oct. 2003 and San Diego fire Oct. 2007. Heck using 'your logic' San Diego should have been a ghost town as well, right?.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by solon (October 30, 2007 5:23 am ET)
                 

              Good point Pearl not only that just how stupid is it for them to claim no one should be living in one of our most important port cities? These people have no brains at all and dont THINK at all. The tune into Rush or someother screechmonkey to find out what they think whether it makes sense at all. Once they hear it they repeat it.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Les is more (October 30, 2007 7:23 am ET)
                   

                What do you want to bet that N.O. suffers another catastrophic hurricane some time in the next 100 years, levee or not. It's a city, in a bowl, in the Gulf of Mexico: do the math.

                 

                Oh yeah, and expect more fires in Cal.

                I'm sure you won't forget to blame  the republicans with all your fellow travelers. 

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Brabantio (October 30, 2007 10:02 am ET)
                     

                  Nobody's blaming Bush because natural disasters happen.  If they do their jobs and try to protect against them and minimize any damage from them, that's what we'd like to see. 

                  Report Abuse
                • Author by solon (October 31, 2007 4:54 am ET)
                     

                  It also has the Mississippi river a major artery from the center of our country flowing out to sea. It is still a major port. Keep snivelling that Bush is held accountable for the failures he should be accountable for. Make sure like this time you completely avoid the issue brought up I just love the WWWAAAHHHH stop telling vicious truths about Bush WWAAHHHHH.

                  Report Abuse
        • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 1:03 pm ET)
             

          Oh, and by the way... the National Guard have made it clear that they have all the resources they need and are in no way stretched thin.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by NGOfficer (October 29, 2007 1:25 pm ET)
               

            Almost 1/3 of the Louisiana Army Guard was on its way back from Iraq when Katrina hit. At least a battailion's worth of engineering equipment was still in Afghanistan or on its way back and being reset (inspected and repaired)

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Kuato (October 29, 2007 2:47 pm ET)
                 

              We're not talking about Katrina in regards to the National Guard dummy.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by eweston8542983 (October 29, 2007 3:14 pm ET)
                   

                Half the NG's gear is still in Iraq, I don't know how much of their manpower is there but I believe it is a significant quantity. It could have helped if they were in Cal instead.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:21 pm ET)
                     

                  Yeah it could have - especially if we actually needed help after the other 17,000 NG's sat at home waiting to be called upon! 

                  I bet we really could have used about 5,000 more radios - that way each NG at the fire could have had a full 4 radio utility belt!  Then we could have brought in the Apache helicopters to transport our troops 1 by 1!

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 3:27 pm ET)
                       

                    Marlboro, you should visit here more often...you are truly a breath of fresh air.

                    San Diego air but it will eventually get better.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:38 pm ET)
                         

                      So if the San Diego air sucks so bad, why get so defensive?

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 3:56 pm ET)
                           

                        I have no idea what you mean by defensive...about what? You lost me.

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 5:09 pm ET)
                             

                          I wouldnt expect you to.  But thanks for the invite, i look forward to the future satire on MMFA

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 8:54 pm ET)
                               

                            I think it is best that you never expect anything from me. Because that is what is expected from you...Nothing

                            Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (October 30, 2007 5:24 am ET)
                   

                Hey Flugelmoron. You are way too stupid to be calling someone else a dummy. That one made me spit up all over my computer. Its kind of like getting lecture on shoe fetishes from Imelda Marcos

                Report Abuse
        • Author by achrispage6992 (October 29, 2007 1:39 pm ET)
             

          Snoopy,

          What was really sickening about this was the Gov. praising Bush and the rapid federal response during a press conference. It was actually hilarious to watch Bush standing behind "Ahnold" basking in the praise. A very transparent attempt to show the administration as being promptly responsive to a disaster. Also transparent was the back scratching in this. California gets the needed aid, the Gov. looks good and in return all he had to do is kiss Bush's arse in a national press conference with the President and rescue crews in the background. God, I can't wait until January, 2009.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by snoopy (October 29, 2007 1:47 pm ET)
               

            Chris,

            I see a lot of the firefighters weren't too pleased with Bush's visit though.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by achrispage6992 (October 29, 2007 1:56 pm ET)
                 

              Good, I wouldn't go see the man if he gave a speech across the street from my business.

              Report Abuse
            • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 2:42 pm ET)
                 

              Wow, you mean Bush caused just as much of a traffic jam as the inconsiderate liberal celebrities of southern California!?!?!  Holy cow...and I thought there was actually a real point to your post.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by eweston8542983 (October 29, 2007 2:48 pm ET)
                   

                Inconsiderate hollywood celebrities cause this kind of traffic problem during disasters, with regularity? Boy am I out of the loop.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 2:52 pm ET)
                   

                Oh that Fred Thompson, such a liberal. oh that Ronald Reagan, such a liberal. Oh that Arnold Schwjehdyfhger, such a liberal.....You are Rush or some freebie intern who works for free just to be near him...hint: don't bend over.   Come on now, be honest. you have friends here. But beware, you have to open your eyes, ears and mind to think for yourself.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (October 30, 2007 1:58 am ET)
                   

                You are ignorant and you are a troll. Not a single point from you. You only come here to take jabs at liberals  no matter how much of a non sequitur. Its because you are stupid. Its because you always hated all those smart kids in class. They were so much smarter than you like most people are. So you hated them and now you have transferred that hatred to liberals and you are right. We are smarter than you. Then again dryer lint is smarter than you. To do something, ANYTHING, to counter those feelings of inferiority you come in here and say anything that floats to the top of your substandard brain as long as it is a mindless jab at your enemy the liberals. You are a sad and pathetic piece of human debris. You feel satisfied because you think you make us mad. In just another of your long and piteous string of delusions. It wont help. You are stupid. You will always be stupid. Ragging on the imaginary liberals that live in your head and remind you how stupid you really are wont help anything. You are always going to be stupid. I suggest you learn to live with it.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Les is more (October 30, 2007 7:29 am ET)
                     

                  You need to stop hyperventilating, and calling people "stupid" or a "moron" all the time: unless that's all you want to do. (At least, it sure looks like it). Every one of your posts is basically the same, tired mantra.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (October 31, 2007 4:57 am ET)
                       

                    You dont get to tell me what to do. Get over yourself. Marlbouroughmoron came in insulting us and attacking liberals he gets what he deserves. You dont like my posts tough. I couldnt care less what you think

                    Report Abuse
          • Author by princeofwheels (October 29, 2007 2:19 pm ET)
               

            MISSION ACCOMPLISHED

            Report Abuse
      • Author by Les is more (October 30, 2007 7:04 am ET)
           

        But don't say that to some of the silly folk in here. For them, bad weather/disasters=republicans fault.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by solon (October 31, 2007 4:58 am ET)
             

          Is it that we are silly folks or is it that YOU are a moron and cant follow the logic? I think you are a moron

          Report Abuse
    • Author by greekfurnace (October 29, 2007 1:12 pm ET)
         

      These Republican lackies are shameless... Katrina is still a distaster. 

      Report Abuse
      • Author by TheMarlboroMan (October 29, 2007 3:01 pm ET)
           

        New Orleans was a craphole before Katrina hit, i hate to inform you.  As much as i hate to see people hurting over the disaster - the city needed a reason for rebuilding.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by clams casino (October 29, 2007 3:09 pm ET)
             

          Boy, you and Fluggy are really competing to see who can be the most ignorant a-hole in the thread, aren't you? So far it's a tossup.

          Report Abuse
        • Author by greekfurnace (October 29, 2007 3:43 pm ET)
             

          That's a wonderful rationale for incompetence. You're a fool... I hate to tell you.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by RayC (October 29, 2007 1:36 pm ET)
         

      If the Feds had come in and told the State and Local People to stand down and then didn't show up for 3 days then they would have been the same. Otherwise no.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by robrob (October 29, 2007 6:46 pm ET)
         

      TheMarlboroMan - since you seem to be so conversant with the California National Guard's situation maybe you should just go ahead and enlist?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by mary59 (October 29, 2007 8:04 pm ET)
         

      http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/090807A.shtml

      compassionate conservatism (aka crony capitalism) in New Orleans; yet another reason why the federal response to Katrina was different than S. Cal:

       ..."One of those who saw opportunity in the floodwaters of New Orleans was the late Milton Friedman, grand guru of unfettered capitalism and credited with writing the rulebook for the contemporary, hyper-mobile global economy. Ninety-three years old and in failing health, "Uncle Miltie", as he was known to his followers, found the strength to write an op-ed for the Wall Street Journal three months after the levees broke. "Most New Orleans schools are in ruins," Friedman observed, "as are the homes of the children who have attended them. The children are now scattered all over the country. This is a tragedy. It is also an opportunity."

          Friedman's radical idea was that instead of spending a portion of the billions of dollars in reconstruction money on rebuilding and improving New Orleans' existing public school system, the government should provide families with vouchers, which they could spend at private institutions.

          In sharp contrast to the glacial pace with which the levees were repaired and the electricity grid brought back online, the auctioning-off of New Orleans' school system took place with military speed and precision. Within 19 months, with most of the city's poor residents still in exile, New Orleans' public school system had been almost completely replaced by privately run charter schools.

          The Friedmanite American Enterprise Institute enthused that "Katrina accomplished in a day ... what Louisiana school reformers couldn't do after years of trying". Public school teachers, meanwhile, were calling Friedman's plan "an educational land grab". I call these orchestrated raids on the public sphere in the wake of catastrophic events, combined with the treatment of disasters as exciting market opportunities, "disaster capitalism"."

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Les is more (October 30, 2007 7:02 am ET)
         

      What does Katrina have to do with the wildfires? Nagin was a disaster, and for all the democrats in California, they had/have nothin'.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (October 31, 2007 5:02 am ET)
           

        Whatever Nagin was BUSH was a disaster. While New Orleans was underwater HE went to a fundraiser in San Diego. He appointed a guy whose last job was for the Arabian Horse administration to run FEMA. We were dropping food and water in Indonesia in 48 hourse but couldnt get to the Superdome for five days. Nagin isnt MY problem let New Orleans take care of him. Bush is MY problem and he needs to start putting competent people in important positions.

        Report Abuse
    • Author by eweston8542983 (October 30, 2007 9:46 am ET)
         

      Mission accomplished then. Pat yourselves on the back and move on to the next disaster. This time for a change we'll blame the victim.

      Report Abuse

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