Buchanan: Obama is "not what you would expect from a black guy from the South Side of Chicago"
On the October 29 edition of MSNBC's Hardball, MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan asserted that "[i]t is quite apparent" Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) "is not a street fighter, and he doesn't have the eye of the tiger." Buchanan further said that Obama is "up there, sort of holding forth," adding, "I mean, he's not what you would expect from a black guy from the South Side of Chicago. He's something, as [NBC News political director] Chuck [Todd] says, you'd expect in a Harvard seminar for undergraduates or something like that." Host Chris Matthews responded, "Well, he's also an Ivy leaguer. ... He may have grown up in the ... to some extent, in the urban neighborhoods, but he certainly is a guy ... who's worked in those neighborhoods in terms of tough areas, but ... he is a refined personality, clearly." Buchanan replied: "Well, that's not a fighter."
Obama reportedly resides in the Hyde Park-Kenwood neighborhood on the South Side of Chicago, and in the 1980s, he worked as a community organizer in poor neighborhoods in the city.
Earlier on Hardball, Todd had said of Obama, "He does strike me as a professor," adding, "He's like a guy at Harvard or Yale, who, after a 90-minute lecture to a bunch of students, will have all the students waiting for an autograph or wanting to spend more time with the professor."
Near the end of the segment, Buchanan said, "Here's what [Obama] ought to say: 'Hillary Clinton is a Bush-Cheney senator when it comes down to the real ... nut-cutting, as Richard Nixon ... used to say, and she has voted again and again and again there. And that's where she will go and that's where she is. And ... our party is here. We're getting out of this war and we're not getting into that one.' " Matthews responded, "I agree with you. Well said. 'Nut-cutting' will be the phrase for the ... ages tonight."
From the October 29 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews:
MATTHEWS: You know, I'm pushing for a more -- a stronger approach by Obama, because I think the country wants a real debate over Iraq and the war coming in Iran. But on paper, for some reason, Obama is not bad along those lines, Chuck. He accused Hillary Clinton in The New York Times this weekend of straddling between the Republicans and the Democrats. That's a -- probably not such a wonderful -- a felicitous way of saying she's going -- she's offering herself as somewhere vaguely in the middle.
He's accused her of backing blank checks for war, which I think is fair enough. He's calling her -- saying, basically, she sounds like a -- votes like a Republican. He's saying the right things in a print interview, but when the guy gets on a stage, he doesn't do it for some -- what is holding him back?
TODD: Well, I think one has been format. I mean, I don't think he's comfortable doing it on camera. That isn't who he is. I mean, people keep describing it as professorial. He does strike me as a professor. He's like a guy at Harvard or Yale, who, after a 90-minute lecture to a bunch of students, will have all the students waiting for an autograph or wanting to spend more time with the professor. But if you walked in and just heard him for 60 seconds, you'd wonder, "What was he was talking about?" He's all over the place. He's all over the map.
And I think that, you know, we're hearing that he is spending more time preparing for this debate; that he's trying to be more television-ready. I mean, it may not be fair, but that may be the thing holding him back more, is that he is not a TV-ready debater -- and if you're not, you're going to have a hard time making progress. She speaks in perfect 60-second answers. They're tremendous.
MATTHEWS: The people that really want it are willing to do it: Dick Nixon, in the worst way perhaps. Ronald Reagan is one to take the fight right to Jimmy Carter, my old boss, right to his face, stood head-to-head and took him on. If you want to be president, don't you have to take on the champ? Why doesn't he -- I just keep getting back to this. What is he wasting people's time with?
BUCHANAN: This is not a street fighter, and he doesn't have the eye of the tiger. It is quite apparent. I think Chuck is exactly right. He's up there, sort of holding forth. I mean, he's not what you would expect from a black guy from the South Side of Chicago. He's something, as Chuck says, you'd expect in a Harvard seminar for undergraduates or something like that.
MATTHEWS: Well, he's also an Ivy Leaguer.
BUCHANAN: He's an Ivy Leaguer.
MATTHEWS: He may have grown up in the --
BUCHANAN: He's more Ivy --
MATTHEWS: -- to some extent, in the urban neighborhoods, but he certainly is a guy --
BUCHANAN: He's more Ivy --
MATTHEWS: -- who's worked in those neighborhoods in terms of tough areas, but --
BUCHANAN: Yeah, but he is more Ivy League --
MATTHEWS: -- he is a refined personality, clearly.
BUCHANAN: Well, that's not a fighter. And he's -- and, look, if you're not a fighter, maybe you're better off not trying to play that role if you're not any good at it. Now, he's got -- Chris, he's got one thing going for him. He has a fighting chance to win Iowa.
BUCHANAN: That opens it up.
MATTHEWS: That opens up the notion that he can win the nomination by being a National Public Radio liberal -- a person who doesn't criticize the other side, who's very reflective, very intellectual -- but that's not the road to victory. You know that.
BUCHANAN: The road to victory is not to go after Hillary so much; it's to take a stand on the other side of the road --
MATTHEWS: Right. We're with you on that.
BUCHANAN: -- and stand up there and define it.
MATTHEWS: I say it -- I'll say it again. People who want the tapes of this show, come and get them, because the fact is, what? I'll say it again at 7 o'clock.
The fact is he has to offer the choice to the voters: Do you want the current rut, a smarter version of Bush --
BUCHANAN: Right.
MATTHEWS: -- a better executed Bush policy? Go with her. If you want a different approach to foreign policy, go with me. He ought to say that.
BUCHANAN: Here's what he ought to say: "Hillary Clinton is a Bush-Cheney senator when it comes down to the real" --
MATTHEWS: Right.
BUCHANAN: -- "nut-cutting, as Richard Nixon" --
MATTHEWS: Right.
BUCHANAN: -- "used to say, and she has voted again and again and again there. And that's where she will go and that's where she is. And we -- our party is here. We're getting out of this war and we're not getting into that one."
MATTHEWS: I agree with you. Well said. "Nut-cutting" will be the phrase for the [inaudible] ages tonight.
TODD: Yeah, there it is.
"I mean, he's not what you would expect from a black guy from the South Side of Chicago." If Pat would just tell me what I would expect from a black guy from the South Side of Chicago, then I’d know if I was racist.
Well, I think it's perfectly apparent what he's saying.
I mean, I doubt Obama even owns a pair of tap shoes.
I gotta chime in on this....
I'm a black guy who was raised on the south side of Chgo.
Now I can take Buchannan's comment as rasist(which COULD be construed that way) OR,
You could say that maybe he meant Chgo. having a history of political battles under it's "big shoulder's" belt, he meant that Obama won't take the fight to Hilliary Chicago style.
Here's the real deal, WHAT FRICKIN' DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE where Obama is from?....just insert the city....if he were from D.C., Philly, Atlanta, L.A., Brooklyn, E.St. Louis or Cape Cod---does it really matter??.....NO!!.....BUT, Bucky & Chris have to somehow put a racist/political spin on this to give it meat. At least Chris was honest enough to say, Obama, just say what you need to say & stop working the edges
Discrimination or prejudice based on race:
"not what you would expect from a black guy from the South Side of Chicago"
It's that simple.
Oh, snap! He didn't just pull an O'Reilly, did he?
Of course not, you have to watch the entire interview and realize that he was taken out of context by the vile villians at MMFA. As an Irish-Catholic, Buchannan really needs to quit drinking and fighting with his brothers.
Haha. And go eat a potato.
Speaking of, you know what an Irish seven course meal is?
A boiled potato and a six pack!
Gee Snoop you enjoy those ethnic jokes eh? As long as they are Irish or Italian.
Bet no one here could get away with that if they were aimed at say, Hispanics/Mexicans or Blacks. Oh well.
I enjoy ethnic jokes too, but I don't have your immunity I'm sure ;-)
Now on topic:
If I said: [insert a name] a Massachusetts politician is not a fighter like you would expect from an Irishman from Southie. He's something you'd expect in a Harvard seminar for undergraduates or something like that.
Nobody here would blink, or think it was out of line.
Not everything is a racial/ethnic stereotype. Sometimes it's just honestly reflective of a certain area & the reputation of the area & some of the folks that reside there.
I don't believe Pat meant anything racist here.
Sure J, but wouldn't you agree that it's a pretty sloppy generalization to make on Pat's part? He isn't new to this game and I really don't see the relevance of his comments are to Obama running for president anyway.
More of the MSM distracting from the real issues at hand. What's next? Are we going to be discussing if Obama is black enough? I would rather have them discuss his plans for Social Security or Health Care!
Ethnic jokes can be funny in the appropriate context with the right people. I certainly would not assume to say them in a mixed group or with strangers. Come on J, I know that you have the appropriate nuance to tell the difference.
I make deportation jokes to my Mexican BF all of the time. He just got his citizenship recently, but I still like to threaten him with a call to the department of homeland security when he doesn't wash the dishes or take out the trash at home.
Not everything is a racial/ethnic stereotype. Sometimes it's just honestly reflective of a certain area & the reputation of the area & some of the folks that reside there. I don't believe Pat meant anything racist here. Jeter
Jeter, reading his statement on it's face, I could agree with you. I can see where Pat's statement can have an entirely innocent meaning except Pat has a history of making racially insensitive remarks. Pat is an 'enlighten' man and he's aware of what a blatant racially insensitive remark are so he'll use subtle methods to get his point across. Of course if one were to accuse him of making racially insensitive remarks he can always explain he MEANT 'south-side street fighting' as tough guy.
Here are a few examples of Pat's previous remarks.
Example #1:"With 80,000 dead of AIDS, 3,000 more buried each month, our promiscuous homosexuals appear literally hell-bent on Satanism and suicide."
Example #2: Russian poet Yevgeny Yevtushenko "the porch-ni**er of the Politburo," he labeled the 1960 Sharpeville Massacre in South Africa, in which 67 blacks were killed, "whites mistreating a couple of blacks"?
Yeah it could be innocent but in Pat's case I don't think so.
Pearlene & MHK,
Perhaps I'm giving Pat the benefit of the doubt here. I felt his statement had more to do with the reputation or image of the South Side of Chicago as being an area where the tough guys hang out rather than anything racial, just like Southie [South Boston] an Irish enclave has a similar notoriety here in Massachusetts. Of course I don't think either area is quite what it was 30-40 or more years ago.
In this instance I think Pat was simply commenting about how he'd expected Obama to be a lot tougher being he spent some time in a tough guy area. Kind of a lame observation from Buchanan, but I didn't read anything sinister or racist in it. Kind of reminds me of Chris Matthews considering Rudy a tough guy just because he was the Mayor of NYC during 9/11. I mean..duh!
I'd like to believe MSNBC would not employ a blatant racist & that despite some of Pat's questionable or blatant remarks in the past that he's smartened up.
Well ladies, it's time for me to pour myself a cup of coffee & retire to my recliner to watch Hardball.
Catch ya later :-)
Snoop & Lynn, I'll reply to your posts later when I've got more time to sit & read them :-)
This Irish to a "T" guy sure does like 'em! Honestly, I believe anyone should be able to tell a good joke, I think most think they can't because someone will be offended. But I believe the truth is you have to have the right venue to not offend. On stage at carnegie hall? Good. Floor of house of representatives? Bad. Bar? Good. Protest? Most definitely bad.
I'm sure Pat didn't mean any harm because Pat's basically a harmless old geezer xenophobe, BUT Barak Obama spent most of his life in freaking Hawaii, he wasn't reared in the hood as both he and Matthews seem to imply here. In the scheme of things what Pat said is no big deal since everyone knows Pat's a geezer; but he is perpetuating the stereotype that all Blacks are from the inner city or the hood and that's a ridiculous notion. I also think you’re example of the Boston Soothe isn’t an appropriate comparison to Obama because Obama isn’t a native of the south side of Chicago. He grew up with an educated mother/stepfather and traveled between Kansas, Hawaii, and the Polynesian Islands.
Also I think Snoop’s joke was away of smacking back at the two Irishmen discussing what is expected behavior from a Black guy. He was flipping the script on these two old dudes.Thanks, Lynn! I thought it apropo.
Damn. I never thought I’d say this, but...I don’t think Pat Buchanan was being racist here and meant any harm. Sure, Buchanan was stereotyping by suggesting that Obama isn’t like those other prone-to-anger Negroes in South Side Chicago, and perhaps Obama needs a little of that “hood mentality” in him to compete with Clinton (who is a pretty tough cookie). But I don’t think his intentions were malice. No doubt, he has a long history of making anti-black statements, and it has become part of his trademark as a political analyst. Yet, even when I hear him say something blatantly racist and homophobic, I tend to shrug it off and not get myself worked-up over his comments. It’s like shaking your head at the town drunk who makes a fool out of himself but overall, when sober, is likable human-being. I’ve always carried this love ‘im/hate ‘im attitude towards Buchanan, because when you suss through the bigotry you’ll find a very intelligent person. I've always thought of Buchanan as William F. Buckley, Jr. meets Archie Bunker.
My feelings towards Buchanan can be summed up by the late Molly Ivins’ assessment of his character: “The good news is that—aside from being a racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic anti-Semite—he is a fairly likable human being. I mean, you’d much rather have a beer with him than Bob Dole or Phil Gramm.”
he is a fairly likable human being. I mean, you’d much rather have a beer with him than Bob Dole or Phil Gramm.” Preston
Amen to that!
Preston & Jeter, you may be right, but Pat's past remarks make it hard for me to give him the 'benefit of the doubt' as I would someone else.
I agree. That's kind of how I feel about Pat. He's got great political analytic skills, but Pat is a product of the old segregated DC and that has affected how he perceives the world relating to race and ethnicity I believe. He seems like a nice old man from a time gone by. Pat's going the way of the dinosaur and just knowing that keeps me from mustering up any animosity toward the old coot.
"when you suss through the bigotry you’ll find a very intelligent person"
"aside from being a racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic anti-Semite—he is a fairly likable human being."
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?
J2, this canard of equating me (black) with the Irish and Italians who suffered discrimination based on ETHNICITY as opposed to RACE is so 20th century. Both of these ethnic groups were oppressed and it was bad, but in turn they oppressed those considered lesser, namely Blacks, Hispanics and of course Native Americans. Both of those ethnicities are also Caucasion and European. It's much harder to oppress those that look so similar to you. It's as okay for Whites to make fun of other Whites, as it is for Blacks to make fun of other Blacks. It's not okay to ridicule or stereotype cultures you have no first hand experience understanding. It's just human nature.
Good post, Krome.
Nah, Pat is a long time racist. You might say the same thing and not be a racist, but a racist like Pat says racist things. Entirely different. And, by the way, who cares what that neocon says about Democrats. His agenda is to try and make them look bad. He is a racist and a bigot both!!!! I say ignore him.
SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!
Did somebody disparage the Irish! Tell me it aint so!!
It was a Michael Murphy, a Navy Seal, that was wearing a Congressional Medal Of Honor, so let's not forget who is the tip of the spear around here!
Happy Thoughts
Acrispage6992, Patrick Buchanan is half Irish by ancestry and half of that is Scotts-Irish.
It was definitely a low blow, not sure if it was racist/bigoted or a jab at a lower-income area...is the southside typically African-American like Harlem?
::cue Chris Rocks' routine "HE SPEAKS SO WELL!"
The South Side of Chicago includes many predominantly African-American areas. In addition, the "South Side" of Chicago is considered much more blue-collar and working class than the "north side." Obviously, these are not hard and fast rules, but when someone from Chicago is referred to as a "South Sider" it is usually assumed that he or she is from working class roots. As Jim Croce sang: "the South Side of Chicago, is the baddest part of town..." Most of my friends from the South Side appreciated that description.
OK, Mark, I got my Leroy Brown in a few seconds before you, but you got in up-thread from me. We'll call it a draw. ;0)
HBL: Right after I posted I saw your post and laughed. Actually I always thought "Leroy Brown" was one of Croce's weakest songs. I much preferred his ballads to his "silly songs" like Leroy Brown, Don't Mess Around With Jim, and I Fell in Lve With A Roller Derby Queen.
Oh come on. How can you not love a line like "she was built like a 'frigerator with a head"?
"I've got a name" is my favorite, but "one less set of footsteps" is right up there.
Brabantio: I think "These Dreams" was my favorite, along with "Walking in the Alabama Rain." But I like your choices, too. As I said, his ballads were better than his silly songs. ("Workin' at the Car Wash Blues" comes to mind as a silly song, as well--"I should be talkin' trash to a secretary, sayin' hey now mamma come on over here...")
Racism is in the mouth of the beholder... ehr... something like that. 'Nut-cutter'? These guys are too much... Um, I mean these white men are too much.
Aaawww... he's just joking, out of context, etc. I know, somehow this is all Hilary's or MMFA's fault.
By the way... I believe that Boehlert is correct on this score... None of these turkeys say one iota about what Hilary or Obama propose... just more of this 'would the voter want to have a beer with this candidate' BS. There is no substance here. None.
Drink your mother****in ice tea, Pat.
Now if Pat Buchanan said this and worked for FOX or CNN and had no affiliation with MSNBC , Keith Olbermann would have named him "Worst Person in the World". But he wont becuase Buchanan is paid by MSNBC. More two faced logic from MSNBC and Olby.
LOL. If Olbermann and MMFA didn't feed off one another, your computer would have already outlived its usefulness.
My computer is always useful, i just wonder what Olby would do if MMFA were to disappear. Where would the material come from? LOL
Gasp! No more Worst Person segment! :-o
I actually helped Buchanan do some of his research, and we were able to find this basic profile. According to our data, an average black guy from the South side of Chicago might posess one or more of the following characteristics;
1.fancy clothes 2. diamond rings 3.custom continental 4. eldorado, too5. 32 gun in his pocket for fun6. razor in his shoe
It's purely objective information.
OMG! LMAO!
Damn that was funny!
HBL, why am I not surprised that y'all are using a "report" released in april of 1973 to describe conditions in October of 2007? Can't Pat find something more recent? ;)
Sorry, Snoop, Pat's pretty old school. I wanted to use the internets to gather our profiling info, but PB limited me to microfilm, his Richard Roundtree movies on BetaMax, and his 70s vinyl record collection.
LMAO! HBL, you are a mess, man! Your sense of humor is out of this world.
Watch yo' back, Colbert. ;)
Hi Preston. I think Colbert's sleeping just fine. ;0)
Now if Pat Buchanan said this and worked for FOX
Your off topic comments are like a broken record. Change the name above to Carlson and this post looks identical to the one you put up just 90 minutes later on the Carlson thread. Obsess much?
Another example of Buchanans subliminal racist garbage. Pat is a very smart man, but he always puts the racist foot in his mouth. He was born in the 30s , he can never change. People from that era have racist in their cores. It saddens me.
Jlyons
You are correct, Buchanans past , the things he has said are exactly what drives these type of racist attitudes and statements.
Bob
The problem with what Buchanan said is that he is implying that African Americans from the South Side of Chicago are of a "lower standard" than Obama. Now maybe I am reading too much into it, I think you get the idea though. From his defense of Imus, to his term of calling African Americans 'black folks". It raises suspicions.
enough of this guy already If we cared one bit about his political opinion he might have had a more successful presidential run.maybe he should pay a visit to the southside of Chicago.
Buchanan, like many Republicans, cannot get his mind around people like Obama who don't play along with the class rules of America. How can somebody be a black man from the South Side of Chicago without being a thug? Let's be honest - that's what Buchanan is saying. He also manages to add in an implied insult of Obama's toughness, which fits in with the usual nonsense about how Republicans are strong and Democrats are weak.
I don't think I would say this is subliminal racism. It seems fairly open to me.
I guess if Obama showed up late to interviews, sucking Colt 45 out of a 40 and kept interrupting the interview to hit on White women and bust caps in various asses, he would live up to Buchanan's image a little more.
I think the very fact that anyone expect Obama to act a certain way because of his ethnicity and geographical location is the basic definition of prejudice. I'm from the South and White, so I guess people are going to expect me to speak with a drawl and drive a pickup with a gun rack or two in it. That is prejudging my behavior based on my geographical origin and race. Just because Buchanan expects something positive out of Obama because of his race and location (i.e., that he will be a "fighter") doesn't make it any less prejudiced.
So, how many guns are there in your pickup?
Barack Obama is not a black guy from any part of Chicago. His late biological father was from Kenya, his late mother was white from Kansas . Barack grew up in Hawaii among his mother's relatives and only moved to Chicago as an adult.
This is bizarre. He says that Obama doesn't have any "street fighter" in him? Now I'm not making generalizations here, but from Buchanan's POV, what exactly does he want? I don't want to speak ofr the man, but it seems his image of a "tough, southsider" is absically a street thug. Is he saying that's who we need to be president? Is being an "Ivy Leaguer" now a liability in politics? Why are the right so afraid of actual THOUGHT and INTELLIGENCE in their leaders...?
(Sorry. Why do I even have to ask?)
I'm sorry. IMHO Sen. Obama's the best hope this coutry has, especially after the disgace of the current administration. (And I'm not optimistic that Sen. Clinton is the right person to clean up this mess. I'm in the "she's just the Democrat's version of W. camp.) Unfortunately that means that he'll never get into the White House without a visitor's pass. Sad really.
Obama's not the point, Pat and his viewpoint getting bountiful broadcast is the point. His comment was plainly and purely racist. And whether that even matters is the point within the point.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race:
"not what you would expect from a black guy"
We can dismiss Pat's comment and decide that it's no big deal, but one thing is really very simple; it's a racist comment.
What is getting more and more obvious with all the 24 hours "coverage" and endless election cycles: the pundits create cartoon versions of the real people running, and they run off the mouth all the time about the images they've created, only pausing occasionally to view the latest clip of the candidate...then spin it to fit their cartoon.
If any actual policy positions intrude, it's only to support the pundit's fantasy version of the personality parade.
YES! YES! YES! Perfectly stated! It's like the only thing we have any appetite fro anymore is parody and caricature.
These have there place in pop culture. (All of my fav's in fact.) And a really witty cartoonist can sometimes make the most poigniant (or biting) statment on a particular issue. BUT THIS IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR ANALYSIS AND/OR CRITICAL THOUGHT!
Why do everyone of these guys sell out for cheap schtik? Is intelligent discourse really that hard a sell? It really makes me sick for the future (and present) of this country.
Perhaps I'm giving Pat the benefit of the doubt here. I felt his statement had more to do with the reputation or image of the South Side of Chicago as being an area where the tough guys hang out rather than anything racial, just like Southie [South Boston] an Irish enclave has a similar notoriety here in Massachusetts. Of course I don't think either area is quite what it was 30-40 or more years ago.
There is also a part of the South Side of Chicago that is filled with "Archie Bunker" typed Irish folks. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard "South Side Irish" shouted as though it were some chant. Obama may not be what he expects from "a black guy from the South Side of Chicago" but Buchanan is CERTAINLY and EXACTLY what I expect from an Irish guy from the South Side of Chicago. Many of the Obama-esque black folks I grew up with on the South Side of Chicago wouldn't let trash like him shine their shoes! Believe that!
I am from the Southside. Hyde Park, where the Senator lives, is south of the Loop, but is nothing like the rest of the Southside in terms of...well, anything. It's much more diverse, is wealthier and better educated then the other neighborhoods. So yeah, he's not going to sound like an average Southsider.
Which doesn't make Pat any less a bigot.