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On CNN, West asserted waterboarding is "not torture," claimed, "[Y]ou wake up feeling fine the next day"

November 02, 2007 4:57 pm ET

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SUMMARY: On CNN, Washington Times columnist Diana West said: "What I would like to see is people really start thinking about what is torture. If putting people into human-size shredders, as Saddam Hussein did, is torture, then waterboarding, which my senior military sources tell me you wake up feeling fine the next day -- it is not torture." However, in congressional testimony, Allen S. Keller, M.D., director of the Bellevue Hospital Center/New York University Program for Survivors of Torture, stated, "To think that abusive methods, including the enhanced interrogation techniques [in which Keller included waterboarding], are harmless psychological ploys is contradictory to well established medical knowledge and clinical experience." Keller stated of waterboarding specifically, "Long term effects include panic attacks, depression and PTSD," and said it poses a "real risk of death."

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During the November 1 edition of CNN's The Situation Room, discussing the Senate confirmation hearings for attorney general nominee Michael Mukasey, Washington Times columnist Diana West said: "What I would like to see is people really start thinking about what is torture. If putting people into human-size shredders, as Saddam Hussein did, is torture, then waterboarding, which my senior military sources tell me you wake up feeling fine the next day -- it is not torture." However, as Media Matters for America has documented (here and here), Allen S. Keller, M.D., director of the Bellevue Hospital Center/New York University Program for Survivors of Torture, submitted written testimony to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that stated, "To think that abusive methods, including the enhanced interrogation techniques [in which Keller included waterboarding], are harmless psychological ploys is contradictory to well established medical knowledge and clinical experience," adding, "These methods are intended to break the prisoners down, to terrify them and cause harm to their psyche, and in so doing result in lasting harmful health consequences." He said of waterboarding specifically, "Long term effects include panic attacks, depression and PTSD [post traumatic stress disorder]," and said it poses a "real risk of death."

Also, Keller has explained that there are immediate physical risks associated with waterboarding, including "actually drowning or suffering a heart attack or damage to the lungs." Keller wrote:

Water-boarding or mock drowning, where a prisoner is bound to an inclined board and water is poured over their face, inducing a terrifying fear of drowning clearly can result in immediate and long-term health consequences. As the prisoner gags and chokes, the terror of imminent death is pervasive, with all of the physiologic and psychological responses expected, including an intense stress response, manifested by tachycardia, rapid heart beat and gasping for breath. There is a real risk of death from actually drowning or suffering a heart attack or damage to the lungs from inhalation of water. Long term effects include panic attacks, depression and PTSD. I remind you of the patient I described earlier who would panic and gasp for breath whenever it rained even years after his abuse.

In his testimony, Keller stated that his "perspective ... is based on more than 15 years of experience as a doctor in evaluating and caring for victims of torture and mistreatment from around the world, and studying the health consequences of such trauma."

Additionally, when challenged by CNN contributor Roland Martin -- who noted Sen. John McCain's (R-AZ) declaration that waterboarding is torture -- West responded: "John McCain's torture is nothing like waterboarding. Anything we do is always going to be more humane than anything our enemies do."

From the 7 p.m. ET hour of the November 1 edition of CNN's The Situation Room:

BLITZER: President Bush plays the terror card as he tries to rescue the embattled nomination of his pick for attorney general. Judge Michael Mukasey once a seeming shoe-in for the job but not necessarily any longer, as senators are demanding he say definitively whether or not waterboarding is torture. Joining us now to talk about that and more in New York, our CNN contributor Roland Martin, along with CNN's own Jack Cafferty. Here in Washington, Diana West, a Washington Times columnist and the author of a book entitled The Death of a [sic: the] Grown-up.

[...]

BLITZER: All right. What do you think, Diana?

WEST: Well, there's a lot to respond to there. I think for starters, I would say that I would take issue with this notion of this being a 9-11 card. I mean, we are in a period of resurgent Islam, global jihad, I mean, this is a serious period. The president does need an attorney general. Some of us knew that this would come up once Gonzales was gone, and we would see the Democrats playing politics and trying to keep the attorney general seat empty. I don't think this is so much about Judge Mukasey trying to protect the president from prosecution. I do believe many other legal experts would say the president would always have immunity here. What I would like to see is people really start thinking about what is torture. If putting people into human-size shredders, as Saddam Hussein did, is torture, then waterboarding, which my senior military sources tell me you wake up feeling fine the next day -- it is not torture.

MARTIN: Hey, Diana?

WEST: Yes.

MARTIN: In the same speech President Bush gave today, he said that we should trust the generals on the ground in Iraq to tell us what we should do. So guess what? Unlike you and me, why don't we trust the member of Congress who's actually been tortured, John McCain, who spent five and a half years in Vietnam.

WEST: Nothing like waterboarding.

MARTIN: No, no, no. Now, one second, one second. John McCain said waterboarding is torture. Now, who would you rather believe: someone who has never experienced torture or a member of Congress who has actually been tortured? I'm going to go with John McCain on this one, as opposed to those who haven't.

WEST: John McCain's torture is nothing like waterboarding. Anything that we do is always going to be more humane than anything our enemies do.

MARTIN: Now you know what he felt? You know what he felt?

WEST: I don't need to know what he felt.

MARTIN: Wow.

WEST: I do know that I -- no, it's -- that's ridiculous. Then no one can have any opinion about anything unless they've had primary experience. It's absurd.

BLITZER: But, Diana, John McCain does say flatly that waterboarding is torture.

WEST: I know that. I understand that.

BLITZER: And Lindsey Graham, who's a Republican senator from South Carolina, himself a military Air Force attorney, a lawyer in the Air Force, he says it's illegal.

WEST: Yes, I know that. But this is not -- you know, John McCain is not king, and he is not the only voice on this.

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    • Author by jeter2 (November 02, 2007 5:01 pm ET)
         

      Yeah, it's like waking up with a bad hangover...right?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by the Grey Path (November 02, 2007 10:05 pm ET)
           

        The Bush definition of torture is this:  Any technique that causes permanent, serious (life threatening), physical harm.

        This definition excludes most anything that doesn't kill you.  That's how they keep claiming they don't torture.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by conleytgwinn (November 04, 2007 1:03 pm ET)
             

          How about the 50 or so that have died under "interrogation"? Were they tortured (since they did die)? Of course, it would be smarter for us to recall my old dictum, that Bungle has never been caught knowingly telling the truth, with but two exceptions: "My name is George W(aterboard) Bush*"; "I want to be President."

          *subject to some dispute: there are those who insist that this creature cannot be human, but must be some alien impersonator.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by Blue Dog (November 02, 2007 5:04 pm ET)
         

      What about just plain suffocation? What about a root canal? You'd wake up feeling fine the next day!

      Report Abuse
      • Author by dangrady (November 03, 2007 12:29 pm ET)
           

        SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!

        I'll tell you what torture is! Torture is listening to men and women of the American Press & Government torturing our rule of law to torture anyone they rationalize is a terrorist!

        We are Americans, defenders of freedom, truth, and democracy in the world, or we were before Republicans took power!

        This little woman that would be so pathetic as to declare torture to be something else so that we may torture is enough to make true Americans sick to their stomachs!

        The question is if we as Americans are ready to SAVE DEMOCRACY, AND VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!

        Happy Thoughts;

        Dan Grady 

        Report Abuse
    • Author by robrob (November 02, 2007 5:04 pm ET)
         

      "then waterboarding, which my senior military sources tell me you wake up feeling fine the next day -- it is not torture."

      If she really wants to convince us it's not torture - why doesn't she volunteer to be waterboarded herself ?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by pete592 (November 02, 2007 5:21 pm ET)
           

        That would be the Fox News method.

        For a realistic test, West needs to be abducted without warning, then bound and deprived of her senses, flown to an undisclosed location overseas, denied rights to counsel or habeas corpus, and then waterboarded, then bound and deprived of senses again, and flown back and dumped on the street. 

        THEN we'll see if she wakes up feeling fine the next day. 

        Report Abuse
        • Author by NiceguyEddie (November 05, 2007 1:00 pm ET)
             

          Yeah.  That would make for some great "reality TV."  I'd watch it!  Hell, I'd TiVO too!  But I don't think you'd have to go that far.  Just line up all of these blow-hards and give them all the comfort they need: knowledge that medical personal are standing by, knowledge that it will stop after a minute or two, whatever etse... And I still bet that every one of these pansies would be blubbering and begging after 30 seconds. 

          Then make them answer a yes/no question on whether or not it was toruture right after they get out.  Now THAT would be worth seeing.

          Report Abuse
      • Author by darkmass (November 02, 2007 6:48 pm ET)
           

        "If she really wants to convince us it's not torture - why doesn't she volunteer to be waterboarded herself ?" - Robrob

        Of course, being the shill she is, she may well volunteer for a Fox style of waterboarding.

        But I wonder, excuse me if I wonder, if she would volunteer if she knew that Hillary Clinton and Barbara Boxer were going to be doing the waterboarding.  :^)

        Report Abuse
    • Author by neondesert (November 02, 2007 5:20 pm ET)
         

      WEST: I do know that I -- no, it's -- that's ridiculous. Then no one can have any opinion about anything unless they've had primary experience. It's absurd.

      She's absolutely right.  You can have any absurd, inane, uninformed opinion about anything even without primary experience.  And I think she proves that point quite well.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by bkboase3653 (November 02, 2007 5:31 pm ET)
         

      She does seem adept at tortured logic.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by pbg (November 02, 2007 7:21 pm ET)
         

      ' John McCain is not King..." No, but Sun Myung Moon IS! He got crowned in the Senate Office Building and everything! and he's your boss, Diana! So John McCain's opinion doesn't stack up against a real king! Is that the point you were trying to make?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by roundhouse (November 02, 2007 7:28 pm ET)
         

      What a sick discussion.

      Humane torture?

      How did we fall so far in such short time?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by HuntingtonBeachLefty (November 02, 2007 7:48 pm ET)
           

        I don't think we fell, we were pushed. The party of morals and values has been steadily lowering the bar on ethical issues for several years now.

        Low standards and low expectations tend to be pretty self-fulfilling.

         Remember when the Abu Ghraib stuff first came out?

        "Well, at least we're not beheading people!"

        As long as somebody's worse than us, we're all cool.

        Human shredder machines ?!?! Is that where you want to start your scale from?Yow!

         

         

        Report Abuse
        • Author by roundhouse (November 02, 2007 7:52 pm ET)
             

          Yes, we were definitely pushed.

          Pushed by the lemmings following the neocons right over the dang cliff.

          Report Abuse
    • Author by unhipcat (November 02, 2007 8:22 pm ET)
         

      I couldn't help but marvel at the thought process that West employed to create the reply in her first paragraph. Some incredible suppositions. Then I marveled at the rest of her comments. Then I went back and saw she writes at the Washington Times.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by princeofwheels (November 02, 2007 8:39 pm ET)
         

      All this talk about Sen, Clinton scaring men, how about this woman. She doesn't argue, she just says she is right. And I'll bet she has a drawer full of sharp knives.

      Report Abuse
    • Author by jmj (November 02, 2007 10:35 pm ET)
         

      Where in the hell do they dig up these people?

      Report Abuse
    • Author by Buzzramjet (November 03, 2007 9:39 pm ET)
         

      As someone else has already pointed out, Kidnap the beyotch, take her to another country, keep her in isolation with no clothes on, throw freezing water on her, then subject her to waterboarding twice a day for weeks THEN bring her back and ask her again what she thinks.

       Besides why is anyone using anyone from the Moonie Times to ask questions of?

       WHEN OH WHEN are we going to see an actual liberal press?

      AND when oh when are we going to at least show some journalist with the balls to call someone a liar like this "woman"?

      Report Abuse
      • Author by TadekKorn (November 03, 2007 11:36 pm ET)
           

        Why the surprise?  CNN courting "reporters" from the Washington Times? Does this elevate Blitzer or West?  To grant her a platform is to accord her respectability.  But is the Situation Room a place known for informed thought?  Or is it, like FOX "news" yet another instrument of the propaganda machine?  Stop worrying about the existence of a liberal press.  We're in the process of losing even the semblance of a free press.  The bones of Goebbels are rattling with laughter.

        Report Abuse
      • Author by magnolialover (November 04, 2007 1:35 pm ET)
           

        See, I suggested doing something similar to this to Mort Kondracke the other day in another thread, and someone on there took that to mean that I really wanted to do it, as in to punish Mort, and then that was taken down to mean that liberals want to destroy everything that they don't agree with, and so on, and so forth. I had to further explain, that I wanted him to have the experiences that our enemies have had, and then they can talk about how these things aren't torture, and what is torture. And things like that. Now, I don't want to be waterboarded, and I don't want to be "disappeared", but I'm pretty sure anyone with a brain could tell us that being strapped to a board, head pointing towards the floor, and having 5 gallon buckets of water poured into your face is, well, disturbing to say the least.

        I saw an interview with Senator McCain the other day, where he was talking about waterboarding, and started talking about the regimes over the years that have used this "technique" to get information. The names of Stalin, Pol Pot, and other such notorious dictators and murderers were mentioned in there, and then he asked, "Is this how we want to be known around the world, and do we want to be tied in with these regimes?" The man has a point, and yet he still gets in line with George W. Bush.

        On another note, the more I hear from Ron Paul, the more I like some of his positions. I hope he can get more and more support from republicans, and or maybe he can run as a 3rd party as well, and shake some things up. On the republican side we have Paul, on the democratic side, we have Kucinich. It's too bad that the people with the most and different ideas, and directions are basically being destroyed by the big money campaigns. Maybe a Kucinich / Paul ticket in 2008? 3rd party?

        Report Abuse

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