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Krauthammer falsely claimed Obama's Iran policy "takes all aggression, all threats, everything serious off the table"

November 05, 2007 2:03 pm ET

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SUMMARY: On Fox News' Special Report, Charles Krauthammer claimed that Sen. Barack Obama's policy regarding Iran's purported nuclear weapons program "takes all aggression, all threats, everything serious off the table in advance." But in an interview with The New York Times that formed the basis for an article Krauthammer cited, Obama did not take military action against Iran "off the table." When asked whether he would "retain a military option for striking Iran's nuclear facilities," Obama said, "I don't think the president of the United States takes military options off the table, but I think that we obviously have to measure costs and benefits in all the decisions that we make."

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During the "All-Star Panel" segment of the November 2 edition of Fox News' Special Report, Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer claimed that Sen. Barack Obama's (D-IL) policy regarding Iran's purported nuclear weapons program "takes all aggression, all threats, everything serious off the table in advance." Pointing to a November 2 New York Times article, Krauthammer went on to claim that Obama "talks about sticks and carrots. In his story in The New York Times, there is nothing in there that has to do with sticks," adding: "This man is all carrots and extremely unserious." However, according to the transcript of the interview with the Times that formed the basis for the article Krauthammer cited, Obama did not take military action against Iran "off the table." When asked whether he would "retain a military option for striking Iran's nuclear facilities," Obama said, "I don't think the president of the United States takes military options off the table, but I think that we obviously have to measure costs and benefits in all the decisions that we make." According to the transcript, Obama also told the Times, in a comment quoted in the article: "My decision making, with respect to military options versus diplomatic options, a containment strategy versus a strike strategy, is going to be informed by how is that going to impact not just Iran, but how is that going to impact the stability of the region and how's that going to impact our long-term security interests."

In the same segment, Washington Post staff writer Jeffrey Birnbaum claimed that Obama, with his Iran policy, "is trying to make himself to be an outsider. That is why he is pushing hard, and it's essentially working, because it has put [Sen.] Hillary Clinton [D-NY] on the defensive for a while and given him a chance in the early caucus and primary states." Birnbaum added without explanation: "It's actually working, even though he may not be serious in a purely foreign policy sense."

From the November 2 New York Times article:

For all Mr. Obama's efforts to emphasize an approach that calls for minimal military involvement in Iraq, his plan is in one respect more ambitious than Mrs. Clinton's. While Mr. Obama said he hoped to withdraw all American combat forces within 16 months of taking office, his plan states that American and allied troops should be prepared to return to Iraq and protect civilians if there were genocidal attacks.

''I do not anticipate that happening, because I think we can execute our withdrawal in an effective way,'' he said. ''What I am saying is that I as president am obviously going to be mindful of the possibility of humanitarian disaster, and if that were to occur, I am not ruling out that we wouldn't take steps in concert with other nations -- even if it was short term -- to ensure that a wholesale disaster did not take place.''

Mr. Obama argued that it was ''too speculative'' to say if the United States would undertake such action unilaterally or only if allied nations chose to participate.

Other aspects of his policy for the Middle East also remain unclear. Mr. Obama declined to say if he would take military action if Iran did not abandon its presumed nuclear weapons program or if he would settle for a strategy of deterring and containing a nuclear-armed Iran.

''My decision making, with respect to military options versus diplomatic options, a containment strategy versus a strike strategy, is going to be informed by how is that going to impact not just Iran,'' he said, ''but how is that going to impact the stability of the region and how's that going to impact our long-term security interests.''

Mr. Obama, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, visited Iraq in January 2006. Asked if that was his last visit, given how much events on the ground have changed since then, he jumped in before the question was finished, saying, ''Given how important this is, why haven't I gone back?''

''I'll be honest with you,'' he said. ''Part of it is that my schedule is such that the trips would be one or two days and would be centered around the Green Zone.''

He added: ''I suspect we will be going back. It probably won't be before Iowa, realistically speaking.'' The Iowa caucuses are scheduled for Jan. 3.

From the November 2 edition of Fox News' Special Report:

BRET BAIER (guest host): Well, Senator Barack Obama, saying today that if elected president he would engage what he called in aggressive personal diplomacy with Iran, and you heard [republican presidential candidate] Rudy Giuliani weighing in on that tactic. We're back with our panel. Charles, we've been here before. Barack Obama has said this before. What is new, and how is it playing on the campaign trail?

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, now it's aggressive diplomacy, so it's not just the wimpy diplomacy, but it's the aggressive kind. Of course, he takes all aggression, all threats, everything serious off the table in advance, so it's the old wimpy diplomacy he's talking about -- chatting with the Iranians as a way to denuclearize them. And he says that this hasn't been attempted, and he invokes [Vice President Dick] Cheney and [President] Bush. The Germans, the French, and the British had three years of negotiations, not Cheney and Bush, none of our baggage -- had all of these ideas and attempted every means of having a deal and got nowhere.

He talks about sticks and carrots. Well, in his story in The New York Times, there is nothing in there that has to do with sticks. In fact, a couple of weeks ago, in the Congress, there was a resolution calling the Iranian Revolutionary Guards terrorists and imposing economic sanctions only, a very soft step. He proudly has denounced it. And that isn't even a stick. It's a twig, and he was against it. This man is all carrots and extremely unserious.

BAIER: Mort, this is really about driving a wedge, or trying to, between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

MORTON M. KONDRAKE (Roll Call executive editor): Yeah, well, it's all about Iowa. And Iowa is famously dove-y, and so Obama is doing whatever he has to do to appeal to the Iowa anti-war crowd. But look, you know, there is a third way between this war talk that you get from the Republicans and the hat-in-hand diplomacy that you get from lots of the Democrats. There is a fellow named Mark Kirk, who is a Republican congressman from Illinois who is the head of the -- co-chairman of the Iran Working Group, who recommends that we cut off Iran's gasoline. They import 40 percent of their gasoline. You don't have to blockade. You can do it with sanctions against the suppliers. Cut off World Bank loans, you create possibilities for China to get its energy elsewhere but besides Iran, and -- but you also talk to them.

I mean, he says, look, we talked to [former Yugoslavian President Slobodan] Milosevic in the course of undermining him. We talked to [Libyan dictator Muammar el] Qaddafi in the process of getting him to give up his nuclear weapons. And you stop the war talk, but you apply heavy-duty sanctions that really bite on the Iranians, and this is coercive diplomacy. It's not the kind of, as Charles says, all-carrot diplomacy that Obama is suggesting.

BAIER: And now Senator Obama has a resolution he wants to raise in the Senate to say that the president will have to come to Congress, right?

BIRNBAUM: Right -- before going to war with Iran, which the president is not suggesting, as best as I can tell, or anyone else is, for that matter. I think, too, what's going on here is that to the liberal left of the Democratic Party, the people who come out in largest numbers to vote in primaries and caucuses, Iran is the new Iraq.

Things are going pretty well in Iraq, as Mort pointed out earlier, and Iran and the possibility of going to war there, the bogeyman of the Bush administration taking us to war there is the most important symbol that somebody running to get a lot of Democratic primary voters can possibly invoke. It's representative of the establishment of Washington. Obama is trying to make himself to be an outsider. That's why he is pushing hard, and it's essentially working, because it's put Hillary Clinton on the defensive for a while and given him a chance in the early caucus and primary states.

It's actually working, even though he may not be serious in a purely foreign policy sense.

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    • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 2:13 pm ET)
         

      Interesting tha Obama has now started to attack and smear Hillary also. Its getting to crunch time.

       

      Report Abuse
      • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 2:28 pm ET)
           

        Wow, Sue, as much as you hate Fox News, you sure do like to lap up their drivel.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 2:39 pm ET)
             

          What is the drivel Kyle?  Can you be specific or are you a troll who likes to smear people?

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 2:48 pm ET)
               

            You were insinuating something dishonest or disingenuous about Obama's intentions here.  That's exactly what FNC would have wanted you to do.

            Now, please, get back to the subject at hand.

            As for your troll comment, takes one to know one?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by DorisRussell (November 05, 2007 2:50 pm ET)
                 

              Kyle, Sueeld has been a longtime poster here. I would save your "troll" arguements for someone who deserves them. 

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 2:52 pm ET)
                   

                Doris - I didn't start it.

                I've been a poster here for some time as well, I recently changed my handle.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 2:57 pm ET)
                   

                Thanks Doris, I take everything with a grain of salt.

                Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (November 05, 2007 2:53 pm ET)
                 

              Kyle,

              For one who likes to invoke the F word in his posts, methinks you should look at your reflection.  You are not off to a very auspicious start.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 2:57 pm ET)
                   

                AA -

                For one who likes to defend the 'adored' VP's use of salty language, I don't think you have the moral authority to judge me on this one.

                What was my infraction, anyways?  Defending myself against a troll accusation by saying 'takes one to know one'?  That's a classic childhood retort, I think maybe you guys need thicker skin.  You're acting like a bunch of wussy libs!

                Report Abuse
                • Author by greekfurnace (November 05, 2007 3:28 pm ET)
                     

                  'Wussy libs'. Love it. Glass houses, for sure. Lots of 'toughguy' talk, little substance by the right wingers.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 3:30 pm ET)
                       

                    GF - I hope you know that was a joke.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by greekfurnace (November 05, 2007 4:05 pm ET)
                         

                      Of course! I love the idea of using the toughguy stuff against the righty hacks who are perpetually calling the more left-leaning folks around here pansies, babies, etc...

                      Report Abuse
          • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 2:51 pm ET)
               

            Interesting that Romney has now started to attack and smear Rudi also. Its getting to crunch time.

             

            http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=3459498&page=1

            Report Abuse
            • Author by wzwriter (November 05, 2007 2:57 pm ET)
                 

              Interesting that Romney has now started to attack and smear Rudi also. Its getting to crunch time.

              I notice that you spelled Giulians's first name "Rudi".  Is this a reference to the times he has appeared in public in drag?

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 2:58 pm ET)
                   

                Ann Coulter seems to have a problem with Rudy dressing in drag. I wonder if that will be the downfall of the christian right.

                Report Abuse
                • Author by DorisRussell (November 05, 2007 3:17 pm ET)
                     

                  Those Christian Right wingers just would love to nominate someone who dressed in drag.

                  Report Abuse
              • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 2:59 pm ET)
                   

                Yeah, it was a slip of the tongue.  Kind of like 'B Hussein Obama'

                Honest mistake.  Really.

                Report Abuse
      • Author by Governor (November 05, 2007 2:33 pm ET)
           

        Obama has now started to attack and smear Hillary

         

        Though completely off topic, can you please provide an example of an Obama attack on Clinton?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 2:38 pm ET)
             

          Sure calling someone disingengious is an attackl as far as I am concerned. Senator Clinton is far superior to Obama, now I guess its time to smear her. 

          http://www.newsweek.com/id/67934

          Report Abuse
          • Author by Governor (November 05, 2007 2:43 pm ET)
               

            "I think she was being disingenuous."

             

            I you think this is an attack, then I led the American League in home runs this year.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by Governor (November 05, 2007 2:44 pm ET)
                 

              *If* you think...

              Report Abuse
            • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 2:45 pm ET)
                 

              It is an attack , the smear games have started

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Governor (November 05, 2007 2:48 pm ET)
                   

                And I hit 58 balls out of the park for the Boston Red Sox this summer.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by MHK (November 05, 2007 2:52 pm ET)
                   

                Did you even read the article?  He feels that she is not being forth right on the reasons why the info is not being released when she was the first lady. 

                What part of his statement do you disagree with?  Maybe you could actually provide a reason on why you feel like he is smearing Senator Clinton instead of going into "drama queen" mode. 

                Just because you state something doesn't make it so...  If your trying to convince other people your going to have to do better.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by Governor (November 05, 2007 2:53 pm ET)
                   

                When Clinton called Obama "irresponsible and frankly naive" last July, was that an attack, sueeld?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 3:03 pm ET)
                     

                  No it was not an attack , but he now is basically calling her a liar, to me that is an attack.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by Governor (November 05, 2007 3:05 pm ET)
                       

                    I think you are being disingenuous.

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by MHK (November 05, 2007 3:10 pm ET)
                         

                      Sue do you understand what disingenuous means?

                      disingenuous ----> not straightforward or candid; giving a false appearance of frankness; "an ambitious, disingenuous, philistine, and hypocritical operator, who... ...

                      The Clintons are not being straightforward on the release of these documents.  Unless you can show other wise, I'm not buying your argument. 

                      Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (November 05, 2007 3:32 pm ET)
                       

                    So then irresponsible and naive is NOT an attack but disengenuous IS? Are you kidding me?

                    Report Abuse
                    • Author by Governor (November 05, 2007 3:39 pm ET)
                         

                      No kidding, Solon.  It may appear to be a double standard, but remember; "Senator Clinton is far superior to Obama"  She was a First Lady!

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by sundog (November 06, 2007 1:03 am ET)
                           

                        I liked that 'far superior' line too.  It's like comparing cheeses or salamis or something.  Since he is an inferior being he cannot address the Lady directly.  This would be an unfair attack.  If she calls him naive for spelling out a foreign policy she herself supported, that's fair because she is just putting him in his place.  So what if it was as ironic as anything Bush has said?  She was perfectly justified because at an early stage of a campaign against a newcomer there are certain ways to define them for people that don't need to be true.  Not if you're a Superior Being. 

                        Report Abuse
              • Author by IRONY 101 (November 05, 2007 3:38 pm ET)
                   

                Most people tend to make a distinction between an attack and a smear. To me, a smear suggests an unfair and patently dishonest depiction of the other person's character.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by RoberttheP (November 05, 2007 2:47 pm ET)
               

            I do not think Obama is attacking her, he is being truthful, something she has failed to do on certain issues.

            Report Abuse
            • Author by DorisRussell (November 05, 2007 2:51 pm ET)
                 

              Bob

              I would not go that far, I would say that as you get into the heat of these campaigns these issues will flair up. I anticipate these little battles to continue but the Democratic Party will be united behind Senator Clinton when she is the nominee.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by MHK (November 05, 2007 2:58 pm ET)
                   

                Doris are you satisfied with the reasons Senator Clinton gave?

                This morning I heard Bill Clinton on NPR  state that he wanted to release everything, but after his commentary they revealed that the entire process is being held up so he can review all of the items prior to the release. 

                How long?  Maybe sometime after next Nov? 

                Personally I don't blame them given their history with the conservative flying monkey squad and their ability to turn nothing into a scandal.   

                   

                Report Abuse
                • Author by DorisRussell (November 05, 2007 3:17 pm ET)
                     

                  MHK, I was not 100% satisfied with the answer but to me the issue is so minor compared to what we need to discuss in this election.  I do not have a problem with the other candidates discussing it however but I wish we would spend more time talking our Iraq and healthcare and less on records.

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by sundog (November 06, 2007 1:17 am ET)
                       

                    Doris, I think Senator Clinton hardly wants to talk details about Iraq.  The past is no good because there were too many reasons she should have voted no on the resolution.  The present is no good because many hoped the Democratic majority could somehow end the war even with Bush in office.  (yea right)  And the future is no good because she is both running on a campaign of 'Ending the War in Iraq' but also has described continuing to fight some version of it into the indeterminate future. 

                    We are going to stay there and fight against al-quaida she said?  I mean, what the hell does that mean?  We'll just shoot at the folks shooting at us?  We'll just run operations out into the neighborhoods to go after the 'bad guys.'  Isn't that kind of the war we're fighting now?  It seems like she wants to keep fighting it but thinks it will go better with her at the helm. 

                    So, end the war while fighting it.  It's as bad as any double-speak from Bush.  War is peace. 

                    How much discussing of Iraq has she really been digging into?  I see the 'End the War in Iraq' on her website as a reason to vote for her.  But Hillary Clinton's campaign doesn't appear to this Democrat to be functioning from a place of reality. 

                    Was that an attack on her?  Gosh, I must've sold my soul to Rush Limbaugh.  I think maybe we've been defending her so long against unfair bs that we have a hard time hearing genuine criticism of her now. 

                    She's just too deep in it by now.  She would be one of the worst nomination choices the Democrats have ever made.  And no, the party will not come together under her.  Not in a way to win. 

                    Report Abuse
                • Author by anotheramerican (November 05, 2007 4:43 pm ET)
                     

                  As one who rarely believes what a Clinton says, I hope you'll excuse my skepticism. 

                  However I do agree that it is delaying tactic so the actual record of Hillary's involvement will be kept a secret until after the election.

                  This too will dog her candidacy.  

                  Report Abuse
        • Author by MiddleLeft (November 05, 2007 3:32 pm ET)
             

          Though completely off topic,

          When I first read this thread EVERY post up to number 50 was off-topic.  Which is.....

          Krauthammer  simply makes up facts as he goes along.   Is there anybody that can refute that?  This is not a a mis-statement nor a mangled quote. It is an outright fabrication.  Correct?

          Now you may continue with your discussion about other issues and policy details. 

          Report Abuse
          • Author by anotheramerican (November 05, 2007 4:47 pm ET)
               

            Middle,

            I entered my own comment way back when with an actual quote of the relevant NYT article early on in this thread. It just keeps getting pushed further back.

            :-)   

            Report Abuse
            • Author by MiddleLeft (November 06, 2007 8:59 am ET)
                 

              I entered my own comment way back when with an actual quote of the relevant NYT article early on in this thread. It just keeps getting pushed further back.

              Yes, I saw your cut and paste from the article and it was informative.  It appears the only actual comment from you is...

              Gee? I wonder why MMFA left off quotes from the NYT article?

              I wonder why Krauthammer can not comprehend this quote from Obama...

              " When asked whether he would "retain a military option for striking Iran's nuclear facilities," Obama said, "I don't think the president of the United States takes military options off the table, but I think that we obviously have to measure costs and benefits in all the decisions that we make."

              As you can see I left the quotes in place.

              Krauthammer said Of course, he takes all aggression, all threats, everything serious off the table in advance,  That would be a mis-statement, mis-information or  a falsehood and explains why it was posted here on MMFA.

              Report Abuse
              • Author by historygeek001 (November 06, 2007 12:18 pm ET)
                   

                MIDDLELEFT:

                Don't you know that fighting with ACTUAL QUOTES IN CONTEXT is unfair?

                Report Abuse
      • Author by IRONY 101 (November 05, 2007 3:27 pm ET)
           

        "Interesting tha Obama has now started to attack and smear Hillary also."

        Is this your first election, Sue...?

        Report Abuse
        • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 4:20 pm ET)
             

          No I have seem the smearing done to McCain in 2000. The smears of Dukakis with Willie Horton. I have seen many many elections.

          Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (November 05, 2007 4:32 pm ET)
               

            Yes and it probably goes back to the begining of time. I think it goes in cycles. Right now we are in a nasty period. The sooner the pendulum swings the other way the better off we will all be.

            Report Abuse
          • Author by IRONY 101 (November 05, 2007 4:33 pm ET)
               

            Sue, Hillary Clinton has not been "smeared" by Barack Obama...unless your definition of smear is a lot more sensitive than mine.

            But why would you find it so interesting that Obama and other Democrats are calling Hillary out? They've identified her weakness and they're capitalizing on it. Hillary should take this opportunity to resolve any discrepancies in her positions and run with it. People like you who say Hillary is being smeared by other Democrats are not helping her at all.

            Report Abuse
    • Author by anotheramerican (November 05, 2007 2:37 pm ET)
         

      Gee? I wonder why MMFA left off quotes from the NYT article?

      CHICAGO, Oct. 31 — Senator Barack Obama says he would “engage in aggressive personal diplomacy” with Iran if elected president and would offer economic inducements and a possible promise not to seek “regime change” if Iran stopped meddling in Iraq and cooperated on terrorism and nuclear issues.

      In an hourlong interview on Wednesday, Mr. Obama made clear that forging a new relationship with Iran would be a major element of a broad effort to stabilize Iraq as he executed a speedy timetable for the withdrawal of American combat troops.

      Mr. Obama said that Iran had been “acting irresponsibly” by supporting Shiite militant groups in Iraq. He also emphasized that Iran’s suspected nuclear weapons program and its support for “terrorist activities” were serious concerns.

      But he asserted that Iran’s support for militant groups in Iraq reflected its anxiety over the Bush administration’s policies in the region, including talk of a possible American military strike on Iranian nuclear installations.

      Making clear that he planned to talk to Iran without preconditions, Mr. Obama emphasized further that “changes in behavior” by Iran could possibly be rewarded with membership in the World Trade Organization, other economic benefits and security guarantees.

      “We are willing to talk about certain assurances in the context of them showing some good faith,” he said in the interview at his campaign headquarters here. “I think it is important for us to send a signal that we are not hellbent on regime change, just for the sake of regime change, but expect changes in behavior. And there are both carrots and there are sticks available to them for those changes in behavior.”

      In his Democratic presidential bid, Mr. Obama has vigorously sought to distinguish himself on foreign policy from his rivals, particularly Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, by asserting that he would sit down for diplomatic meetings with countries like Iran, North Korea and Syria with no preconditions.

      The suggestion, which emerged as a flash point in the campaign, has prompted Mrs. Clinton to question whether such an approach would amount to little more than a propaganda victory for the United States’ adversaries and to question the experience of Mr. Obama, a first-term senator from Illinois. Other Democrats, in turn, have criticized Mrs. Clinton for an approach to Iran they call too hawkish, including a vote for a nonbinding resolution describing the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in Iran as a terrorist organization.

      Mr. Obama’s willingness to conduct talks at the highest level with Iran also differs significantly from the Bush administration’s approach.

      Report Abuse
      • Author by anotheramerican (November 05, 2007 2:39 pm ET)
           

        ps. The article goes on.. but you get the idea.

        No preconditions.. talk.. economic inducements...

        About the only thing missing is Obama saying, "Ehhhh What's up Doc?".

        ;-)  

        Report Abuse
        • Author by jeter2 (November 05, 2007 2:41 pm ET)
             

          Yup, lets pay em off.

          Sounds like a plan ;-)

          Report Abuse
          • Author by pete592 (November 05, 2007 2:52 pm ET)
               

            After Iran officially renounced terrorism and contributed to the fall of the Taliban after 9/11, Bush included them in the "axis of evil".

            How's that brilliant piece of diplomacy playing out?

            Report Abuse
            • Author by anotheramerican (November 05, 2007 2:57 pm ET)
                 

              Pete,

              Interesting comment. Can you explain what you mean when you say Iran " officially renounced terrorism and contributed to the fall of the Taliban after 9/11".

              Thanks,

               

              Report Abuse
              • Author by pete592 (November 05, 2007 3:53 pm ET)
                   

                I was wrong about an official encompassing renunciation of terrorism.  I was mistaken in my memory of Iran's reaction to 9/11:

                BBC - 9/17/01: Iranian president Khatami "strongly condemned" the 9/11 attacks: "Mass killings of human beings are catastrophic acts which are condemned."

                As far as their role in fall of the Taliban: 

                NYT - 9/29/01: "Iran and Russia supply the [Northern Alliance] with a sufficient amount of tanks, artillery and other weaponry."

                AP (via FoxNews) - 10/3/01: "The anti-Taliban alliance in northern Afghanistan is coordinating its offensive with the United States and expects to receive fresh supplies of weapons soon from Iran and Russia, a spokesman said Wednesday."

                I also strongly recommend this episode of Frontline.  

                Report Abuse
                • Author by conleytgwinn (November 05, 2007 4:15 pm ET)
                     

                  Great links - particularly the Frontline article! That one covered things I knew already, but needed to be reminded of; and did so quite succinctly.

                  Report Abuse
            • Author by jeter2 (November 05, 2007 3:03 pm ET)
                 

              Pete I'm all for diplomacy.

              But NOT financial payoffs.

              That has NEVER worked, & I'm damn sick of this country giving away our money in a useless effort to insure peace. It doesn't work!!!!!

              Report Abuse
              • Author by Old_Benjamin (November 05, 2007 3:37 pm ET)
                   

                Isn't it exactly that which prompted N. Korea to give up their nuke program together with non-aggression assurances?

                Report Abuse
                • Author by jeter2 (November 05, 2007 3:41 pm ET)
                     

                  It works for awhile...but then they act up & come for more.

                  Sorry, that's not a brilliant plan.

                  It's like paying off a blackmailer forever...

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by solon (November 05, 2007 4:35 pm ET)
                       

                    It worked for a while then WE abrogated the obligations of the treaty. North Korea has nothing to lose. No economy to speak of, nothing. Clintons plan would have given them something to lose normalization and a non agression pact and the Sunshine policy with South Korea. Unfortunatly before the ink dried on the agreement. The 94 Republicans got control of the Senate demogogued the issue and we didnt come across with OUR end of the agreement so we dont KNOW how things would have gone had the agreement actually been implimented.

                    Report Abuse
              • Author by solon (November 05, 2007 3:42 pm ET)
                   

                Of course it works and it HAS worked. We basically paid off Egypt to enter the Camp David accords. They are the second largest recipient of US aid and we have had peace between Israel and Egypt since Camp David. We dont have to give Iran large amounts of money only help them with lightwater nuclear reactors. This will allow them to export more of their oil. The key to negotiations is to give the other guy something to lose.

                Report Abuse
              • Author by historygeek001 (November 06, 2007 12:23 pm ET)
                   

                I seldom agree with Jeter, but he has a point--paying Danegeld is nearly always ineffective in the long run.  On the other hand, DIPLOMACY is often effective, and our current adminstration essentially ignores diplomacy in favor of non-negotiable positions.

                Report Abuse
          • Author by solon (November 05, 2007 3:37 pm ET)
               

            Actually the key to diplomacy with nations like Iran is to give them something to lose. When they basically have nothing to lose, no chips in the game there isnt much leverage except more war. This isnt blackjack its poker and it isnt a ten minute game its a marathon. Diplomacy is hard. It is long, it also can be very rewarding. It was diplomacy that ended aparthied, it was diplomacy that ended South Africas nuclear status. Things CAN be achieved. Just saying do what you are told might FEEL good but it rarely accomplishes anything.

            Report Abuse
      • Author by dangrady (November 05, 2007 3:01 pm ET)
           

        SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!

         anotherrepublicanbrownnose / Monday November 5, 2007 02:37:23 PM EST

        It would be nice if the Draft-Dodging Bandaid Purple Heart Wearing branch of the Republican party would make an argument that did not rely on the rhetoric of others of their own ilk, and do some thinking of their own.

        I won't be holding my breath as the only thing they are clever about is how to hide their money, steal elections, waste taxdollars and screw up government.

        Happy Thoughts;

        Dan Grady

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    • Author by Sueelldd (November 05, 2007 2:39 pm ET)
         

      There is nothing wrong with Obama wanting to talk to Iran, its a fair policy something of course that you would never expect to get a fair analysis from Krauthammer and his FOX cronies.

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      • Author by wvhart6757 (November 05, 2007 10:49 pm ET)
           

            It's standard practice at Fox to make a caricature, not just of liberals, but of their positions, as well. Krauthammer, a person I once considered a respectable commentator, clearly has bought into this tactic over there. Must be something in the water/kool-aid.

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    • Author by dexteritas0071418 (November 05, 2007 2:40 pm ET)
         

      Krauthammer is right. Wimpy diplomacy only gave us success with:

      North Korea, Libya, USSR (cuban missile crisis)..

      While hard-nosed, tank-first tactics have given us such success stories as:

      Iran, Venezuela, Iraq, Nicaragua, Vietnam....

      SIKE

      Report Abuse
      • Author by solon (November 05, 2007 3:50 pm ET)
           

        You get a mixed bag either way. North Korea migh have been a success story had we honored our obligations under the treaty we will never know since we didnt. Cuba WAS a success story, we agreed not to invade and they didnt introduce anymore offensive weapons. Libya used to be the worst terrorist sponser in the world. Hosting terrorism camps for the IRA, Palestinians any European terrorist group that coughed up a bit of cash. Now they are getting in line, they might still be brutal in their country but what international terrorism have they been involved in since the Lockerbie?

        Nicaragua was hardly any sort of success. We got about 20,000 Nicaraguans killed. We stopped their economic growth and got rid of the FREELY ELECTED Sandanistas but they are still the second poorest country in the hemisphere. We flouted international law, were found guilty in the World Court for what amounts to international terrorism and lost ANY credibility we would ever have when WE criticise other countries for meddling in the internal affairs of other nations. There are no magic bullets. Military options CAN work so can diplomacy. Military options are sure seen as more acceptable AFTER diplomacy has been tried. The military option ALWAYS exists but it should be the LAST option not the first. It shows a country is politically weak when they dont think their ARGUMENTS can win the day so they send in the army.

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    • Author by dangrady (November 05, 2007 2:42 pm ET)
         

      SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!

      Ah Krauthammer; please go home to whatever country you came from as your opinions about our nation's security has managed to make us as insercure as we have ever been since the English burned the White House down.

      The man has never gotten a middle-east policy right in 25 years of pontification! This is the man that argued that even if Reagan, as he did, negotiated with the Iranians through Wm. Casey to trade arms for hostages before the election in '76, that did not mean that he negotiated with terrorists.

      Now he would make the Iranian National Guard, and virtually their whole national defense a terrorist organization, and speak of diplomacy in the same breath! THAT IS CERTIFIABLY INSANE!

      Whom is he kidding, he carries the water for the Heritage Foundation, and the oil interests, and allways has.

      Happy Thoughts;

      Dan Grady

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      • Author by RoberttheP (November 05, 2007 2:46 pm ET)
           

        SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR AN INDEPENDENT!!

        Sorry Dan, but we need Bloomberg.

        Report Abuse
        • Author by dangrady (November 05, 2007 2:55 pm ET)
             

          SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!

          I get it, let's not vote for a Republican, let's vote for a Billionaire to save democracy!

          I want democracy, not a Fascist's version of Democracy that panders to wealth and little else.

          Greed is not a virtue, it's a vice; it would be nice if a Republican could make that distiction.

          Happy Thoughts;

          Dan Grady

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          • Author by DorisRussell (November 05, 2007 2:57 pm ET)
               

            Dan I have to agree with you on that one. Bob is dreaming or mocking you ;-)

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            • Author by jeter2 (November 05, 2007 3:00 pm ET)
                 

              SAVE US FROM THE MOONBATS, VOTE REPUBLICAN!

              Happy thoughts,

              Jeter2

              Now Doris, that's mocking Dan ;-)

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              • Author by dangrady (November 05, 2007 3:06 pm ET)
                   

                SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!

                I hear Columbia is moving closer to that perfect Peronist style Fascism that the Bush Crime Family is intent on making America, might suggest you move there with the Neo-Cons before the embarrassment you will suffer in the up coming election, and the trials that will follow the Democratic surge in Congress, the Senate, and the Presidency.

                You will have all the cocaine you can imagine to say "Just No" too.

                Happy thoughts;

                Dan Grady

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                • Author by jeter2 (November 05, 2007 3:08 pm ET)
                     

                  Thank you Dan.

                  PLEASE SAVE US FROM THE MOONBATS [like Dan] VOTE REPUBLICAN!!!

                  BTW Danny I was funning you, but like most moonbats, you have no sense of humor. But HAPPY THOUGHTS anyway...

                  Report Abuse
                  • Author by dangrady (November 05, 2007 3:13 pm ET)
                       

                    SAVE DEMOCRACY, VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT!!

                    - jeter2 / Monday November 5, 2007 03:08:52 PM EST

                    I see your not a fan, but other than your desire to make me out a "Moonbat," whatever that is, can you scratch your head a little more or atleast until you find the brain cell among all that dandruff that helps you opine!?

                    Happy Thoughts;

                    Dan Grady

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                    • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 3:29 pm ET)
                         

                      Dan -

                      Here is some info from Wikipedia:

                      Moonbat (also "barking moonbat" and "moonbat crazy") is a term often used currently in U.S. politics as a political epithet referring to anyone that is liberal or on the left.

                      Therefore, Jeter called you a bad name, and you automatically win the argument.

                      What was the argument again?

                      Report Abuse
                      • Author by jeter2 (November 05, 2007 3:45 pm ET)
                           

                        Sorry Kyle, but fellow Moonbats are not eligible to referee arguments here.

                        ;-)

                        Report Abuse
                        • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 4:07 pm ET)
                             

                          Sorry Jeter, but Wingnuts don't carry much credibility here to begin with, so you still lose!

                          Report Abuse
                          • Author by Kyle_Broflovski (November 05, 2007 4:09 pm ET)
                               

                            And just to pre-empt you, I KNOW you were joking.  I was joking as well.

                            Report Abuse
    • Author by NiceguyEddie (November 05, 2007 2:53 pm ET)
         

      Obama's attitued towards Iran (and Pakistan, for that moatter) makes far more than sense than any other of the candidate's I've heard.  (So admittedly I have no idea what Pual and Kucinich have to say on it.)

      What is wrong with these right wing nuts?  Why is anything short of dropping bombs onthem weak?  Why is it weak to TALK.  The only way you can make demands is through DIPLOMACY.  ISOLATION only give their leaders more anti-american propaganda to prop themselves up with.  (Cuba? Iraq?  North Korea? Good 'agressive policies' at work there!  We only started making any progress at all with NK once we started TALKING TO THEM!!!)

      The "Iran Problem" cannot be solved with bombs.  Besides: Bombs are a fear response!  DIPLOMACY takes far more corage.

      OBAMA '08!!!

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      • Author by scooter (November 05, 2007 3:28 pm ET)
           

        Yes, totally in agreement. Everyone should read Noam Chomsky, one of the brightest men on earth, and see what US policies have done in the past century. It amazed me to see how many countries we destroyed because we coerced democracy. When left alone, some of the countries we messed up are able to return to some form of normalcy.

        Although Noam is the most factual-based writer on politics, there are still too many righties who think he has a left-right agenda. He sticks to democracy principals, and blasts President Clinton equally when his policies were deserving of criticism, although Bush & Reagan policy failures are so numerous they make Clinton's look like a footnote.

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    • Author by deeznuts (November 05, 2007 7:08 pm ET)
         

      takes all aggression, all threats, everything serious off the table

      Yeah, not seein' a problem here.

      What's Das Krauthammer's beef? I mean other than the fact that he's a bloodthirsty chickenhawk? 

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      • Author by roundhouse (November 06, 2007 8:03 am ET)
           

        I see no problem with diplomacy either. Mr. Krauthammer and neocons everywhere miss the fact that violence is the opposite of power.

        Violence is nothing more than coercion.

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