On Special Report, Krauthammer asserted that Giuliani's recommendation of Kerik for DHS secretary "is, in some odd way, exonerating"
On the November 9 edition of Fox News' Special Report, during a discussion of how Republican presidential candidate and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani has "dealt with" his former police commissioner Bernard Kerik's recent 16-count federal indictment, syndicated columnist Charles Krauthammer asserted that "the fact that [Giuliani] recommended [Kerik] for [secretary of the Department of] Homeland Security is, in some odd way, exonerating." Krauthammer continued: "[T]he man is not an idiot. If he had actually thought there was real criminality here, as we see in the indictment, you don't recommend a guy for a post like that if you assume he really is linked with the Mafia, he really has been involved in corruption." But according to a November 3 New York Times article, in 2006 Giuliani "acknowledged" in "testimony to a state grand jury" that "the city investigations commissioner, Edward J. Kuriansky, had told him that he had been briefed at least once" about Kerik's connections to Interstate Industrial Corp., which the Times described as a company "suspected of links to organized crime." Additionally, according to the Times, Kuriansky also briefed Giuliani's chief of staff and had documentation of those "sessions," both of which occurred before Giuliani appointed Kerik as police commissioner in 2000.
In response to Krauthammer's comments, Roll Call executive editor Morton M. Kondracke asserted that, according to the Times, "the now deceased investigations commissioner of New York City told Giuliani and told aides of Giuliani that Kerik was involved in this, in this construction company that had mob ties, and that the investigative commissioner did not say that that ruled him out, and Giuliani decided to overlook the allegation and appoint him anyway." Kondracke concluded: "But by the time he recommended him for Homeland Security Commissioner, he darn well knew that the guy was connected to this company."
Indeed, the Times reported that, "last year in testimony to a state grand jury," Giuliani "acknowledged" that the city investigations commissioner, Edward J. Kuriansky, "told him that he had been briefed at least once" about Kerik's ties to Interstate Industrial before Giuliani appointed Kerik police commissioner in 2000. Giuliani claimed that "neither he nor any of his aides could recall being briefed about Mr. Kerik's involvement with the company." Previously, the Times reported in March that Giuliani testified that he "had no memory of the briefing, but he did not dispute that it had taken place."
The November 3 Times article added:
But a review of Mr. Kuriansky's diaries, and investigators' notes from a 2004 interview with him, now indicate that such a session indeed took place. What is more, Mr. Kuriansky also recalled briefing one of Mr. Giuliani's closest aides, Dennison Young Jr., about Mr. Kerik's entanglements with the company just days before the police appointment, according to the diaries he compiled at the time and his later recollection to the investigators.
The additional evidence raises questions not only about the precision of Mr. Giuliani's recollection, but also about how a man who proclaims his ability to pick leaders came to overlook a jumble of disturbing information about Mr. Kerik, even as he pushed him for two crucial government positions.
On December 3, 2004, President Bush nominated Kerik to head the Department of Homeland Security. On December 10, 2004, Kerik withdrew his nomination, reportedly citing as the reason that "he had not paid taxes for a domestic worker who may have been an illegal immigrant."
As Media Matters for America noted, a leaked memo detailing Giuliani's 2008 campaign plans appeared to include Kerik on a list of several potential "prob[lems]" that may be "insurm[ountable]."
From the November 9 edition of Fox News' Special Report:
BRET BAIER (guest host): Charles, how do you think Rudy Giuliani has dealt with this? Has he dealt with it effectively? He's said so far, "I made a mistake because I didn't vet him." But as far as the follow-up questions, they don't elicit a lot of answers other than that.
KRAUTHAMMER: Well, I mean his only defense is to say, "He was a friend, I trusted him, he did a good job, and I didn't suspect there was anything serious here."
Look, I think the fact that he recommended him for Homeland Security is, in some odd way, exonerating. I mean, the man is not an idiot. If he had actually thought there was real criminality here, as we see in the indictment, you don't recommend a guy for a post like that if you assume he really is linked with the Mafia, he really has been involved in corruption.
He was a friend, and he overlooked rumors or stories he had heard, even a briefing or two. But in the end, Rudy's image is the sheriff who rode into town and cleaned it up. So he has a deputy who has got a shady past who might have been involved in bad stuff. I don't think it rubs off. He says, "I admitted it. I made a mistake."
Now, if it comes out that he was either aware or enabled or involved in any way in this corruption, he's finished. But I can't imagine he did precisely because he acted as if the guy was above the board in recommending him to the president.
KONDRACKE: Well, there is -- I mean, The New York Times had a big, long story last Saturday indicating that the now-deceased investigations commissioner of New York City told Giuliani and told aides of Giuliani that Kerik was involved in this -- in this construction company that had mob ties, and that the investigative commissioner did not say that that ruled him out, and Giuliani decided to overlook the allegation and appoint him anyway. But by the time he recommended him for Homeland Security commissioner, he darn well knew that the guy was connected to this company.
Justice and Truth in the USA - Fact Check:
Since Kuriansky is dead there is no way to confirm or deny the allegations. Therefore I have to call this one AGAINST MMFA.
As for Giuliani, the episode is simply a sad reminder that sometimes our buisenss acquaintances can let us down. Obviously, political opponents will try to make hay out of these developments, but candidates such as the Clintons will probably want to leave this issue alone lest they become the focus of the same kind of attention.
A sad reminder?
Kerik was not a "business partner" but a guy who was appointed by Mr. GroundZero to head the largest police department in the country.
Even with the suspicion's that Mr. 9/11 had, it didn't prevent him from recommending that the guy be appointed to run one of the largest and most disorganized departments in the Federal Government.
If St. Rudy wants to stand up to the kind of investigation that the Clinton's have withstood for the last fifteen years, then it would be fair to bring the Clinton's into this topic.
Since Rudy hasn't stood up to such an investigation, I'm going to have to call this one for MMFA and against you.
You might understand someday that everything isn't about the Clinton's. Only the most desperate neo-con brings every topic around to the Clinton's.
Sorry, but since you've referenced the Clinton's in a thread that has nothing to do with them, your posts have been relegated to the trolling bin.
Right, it is just a shame that Grand Jury testimony isnt written down, or recorded in some way for use later. WAIT, IT IS. So I guess there is a very EASY way to corroborate this testimony. I have to call this one for you being an idiot.
Every post JusticeTroll makes gives us no recourse than to call him an idiot.
---"Therefore I have to call this one AGAINST MMFA"---
The consequences of this "call" against Media Matters surely will be devastating.
"Therefore I have to call this one AGAINST MMFA"
Duly noted.
I predict this strong rebuke from Wingnut#4673654 will have the same impact on MMFA as the falafel-f***er Bill O'Reilly's rebuke of France had on that once great nation.
Somebody needs actual facts
Before he knee jerk reacts
He's not even "truthy"
His posts have no toothy
He's pulling from his GI tract
Charlie K's alternate reality
Begs a question of some duality
Either his mind's pathetic
Or his defect's genetic
Or maybe it's lack of morality
Since Kuriansky is dead there is no way to confirm or deny the allegations. Therefore I have to call this one AGAINST MMFA.
Well you are wrong , Kerik will be found guilty and Rudy needs to explain why he recomended him.
nsky may be dead, but it looks like he left enough of a paper trail to sink Kerik AND Giuliani.
I guess you feel the same way about some of the incompetants that W. put in key positions.
Dude, look - part of the job of a leader/exectuive/manager is findig the right people for the team. Bush has proven time and time again to be a $#!++y judge of both charecter and competence. If Guiliani suffers from the same handicap, we cannot afford, as a nation, to give him a pass on this.
This is true BTW, whether you are a 'Pub or a Dem'. If you're on the right, I'm sure you wouldn't want another embarrassment like W. Bush. Or maybe you would. I don't know, but I do know a lot of 'Pub's that don't. And the last thing they want is another guy pushing his cronies into jobs that they are unqualified for.
"If he had actually thought there was real criminality here, as we see in the indictment, you don't recommend a guy for a post like that if you assume he really is linked with the Mafia, he really has been involved in corruption"
Pay close and special attention to the very last line of this great philosophical comment from Chuck........ "he really has been involved in corruption"
That needs repeating...... "he really has been involved in corruption"
If there is any line that says it all about Rotten Rudy's ability to pick winners....this is certainly it!
So my question is:
Based on this line of idiocy, can it be that Chuck thinks that since Kerik was corrupted/corruptable during his days as NYC police chief that he then is/was a perfect pick for the head of the DHS because it hasn't been fully proved yet that he was corrupt?
That is the only thing that can be deducted by this knucklehead's use of his gray matter in his pathetic attempt at trying to defend Rotten Rudy and his own personal use of his gray matter!
GIULIANNI's "reputation" is about WHAT, exactly?
His REPUTATION is for being a shrewd and ruthless district attorney, with ZERO tolerance for crime, and a nose for who the BAD guys were.
His REPUTATION is for being nobody's fool, and having investigative genius to put together difficult cases in order to obtain convictions of criminals.
His REPUTATION is being a "DETAIL" man, someone who overlooked not the slightest hint of suspicion, and like a pit bull terrier, would not let go until he had come to the very bottom of the TRUTH.
No man with such a reputation would then completely blank out and nominate a CRIMINAL ... about whom he had been WARNED ... to the highest law-enforcement position in the land.
We are forced to reevaluate Guilanni's REPUTATION. If he has FRIENDS who are CRIMINALS, and to whom he seems to owe favors, what might this say about Guilanni's methods for obtaining evidence in order to rack up convictions? Hmmmm.
One of the best ways to get information that will lead to conviction of members of organized crime is to make DEALS with other criminals. In truth, the criminals of 'organized crime' are only too happy to inform on other criminals who may have displeased them, and let "THE LAW" do their dirty work. An "insider" can easily feed info to a friendly and ambitious DA, who then looks GOOD to his constituents while in reality is only dancing on strings pulled by another.
An uncanny ability to obtain evidence of such validity that it leads to an impressive conviction record, may just indicate that this "public servant" had become a useful tool for taking rivals out of circulation.
From "The Godfather", lesser Dons discuss Vito Carleone:
Don Barzini: We're all grateful to Don Corleone for calling this meeting. We all know him as a man of his word. A modest man who will always listen to reason.
Tattaglia: Yes, Barzini, he is too modest. He had all the judges and politicians in his pocket and refused to share them.
Since Rudy aknowledged that the briefings took place, what difference does it make that Kuriansky is now dead? There is no basis for your argument.
In any case, the point Krauthammer is trying to make is that Rudy gets a pass because only an idiot would have recommended Kerik once he knew there was the possiblility of mafia ties. Krauthammer seems to be unable to accept the simpler, more obvious choice - maybe Rudy is an idiot.
By Krauthammer's logic, if it turns out that Giuliani tried to appoint a child-molesting serial killer to an important post in NYC, Saint Rudy should get the Congressional Medal of Honor.
DesertJim is right- if a Democrat does this, it's proof that the Democrat is either Corrupt or Incompetent. Of course there's a third option for Republicans- somehow the nomination of a total scumbag is evidence of Presidential Leadership Skills. Whatever- it will be a cold day in hell before I take Charles Krauthammer's advice on anything, anyway.
Don't know about any serial killers, but one of Rudy's childhood friends, Alan Placa, is a priest who's been accused of--wait for it--child molestation!
Placa was suspended by the church and now draws a cushy salary from Giuliani's consulting firm. You can read the details here.
I'm sure Placa will find a position inside a Giuliani Cabinet. After all, isn't that what the Cabinet is for--giving all your old buddies and cronies a nice, comfy job at the taxpayers' expense?
Karauthammer's long lost twin, the Child Catcher in "Chitty Chiity Bang Bang."
http://www.p2.com.br/ccbb/05cl.jpg
In some odd way, absolutely anything can make sense. Such as insane mutterings.
As I said Friday, Kerik is scum and should go to jail for a very very long time.
Krauthammer is either stupid or in love with Ghouliani. It's not that Ghouliani didn't know that Kerik was a criminal...he just didn't think he would ever get caught.
I'm a little confused here. JusticeTruth has already called this issue, in the very first post. So why are we still talking? Did JT send out permission to keep discussing this issue, and I didnt get the memo?
I mean, it was a Fact Check and EVERYTHING!!
I think it was a deranged fact check, which is in some odd way exonerating...not.
Krauthammer's totally right. "In some odd way,"
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY WAR IS PEACE IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
But Krauthammer shouldn't worry. This news about Kerik will soon be flushed down the memory hole anyway. Then we all can go back to hearing what a tough guy Giuliani is.
Sadly, Krauthhammer is yet another one of those formerly principled conservatives who, upon his employment at Fox, has somehow abandoned his objectivity and replaced it with a bald-faced partisanship. Hmm, must be something in the water/money or something, over there.
“I was not informed of it,” Mr. Giuliani said then, when asked if he had been warned about Mr. Kerik’s relationship with Interstate before appointing him to the police post in 2000."
"Mr. Giuliani amended that statement last year in testimony to a state grand jury. He acknowledged that the city investigations commissioner, Edward J. Kuriansky, had told him that he had been briefed at least once. The former mayor said, though, that neither he nor any of his aides could recall being briefed about Mr. Kerik’s involvement with the company."
- justicetruthus8276"Since Kuriansky is dead there is no way to confirm or deny the allegations. Therefore I have to call this one AGAINST MMFA."
Do you really not understand Giuliani changed his sworn Grand Jury testimony and admitted the truth? I wonder if you maintain this same level of accuracy in all your posts?
Therefore I have to call this one AGAINST JUSTICETRUTHUS8276
The former mayor said, though, that neither he nor any of his aides could recall being briefed about Mr. Kerik’s involvement with the company."
And you actually believe that the conveniently faulty memories of Julie-Annie and his aides equals exoneration? Hope you got a receipt for that brain, Billybob.
Ah yes, the good old "I do not recall" excuse. Hey, if he doesn't recall, then there is NO possibility that he was told one of his best friends, and closest advisers was tied in with the mob. I mean, really, that's just something that you can't recall. BS of course. Of course he remembers when he was told that information, unless of course, like others have postulated, Rudy G is s complete and utter idiot. Or maybe he's just channeling Alberto Gonzales. I don't know. But if someone who wants to be President doesn't have simple control of what should have been a pretty prominent memory, maybe they ought not to be President, since I think it should take a fairly high level of intelligence to do such a thing.
As for Truthy's assertion that maybe the Clinton's don't want people looking around in their past; have you been awake the last 15 years? That's the only thing that has happened to the Clinton's since essentially Bill took office. Investigation, after investigation, after investigation. If someone wants to spend more money on investigating the Clinton's, I'm pretty sure they'd be all for it. They don't have any skeletons left in the closet. All of that money, all of that time, and what did they find out about the Clinton's? Bill got a hummer from an intern, and there was a dress. That's it.
So you think this truth&justice guy is another incarnation of billybob/boy? Gosh dern it, I think you're right!
He does have a new catch phrase to parody. I do hope he reads some of the responses he gets...they should count as continuing education credits.
It would count as continuing credit if he could remember/absorb anything that he learns. But he just starts fresh the next day like he's taken Republican GHB. Or maybe he's been paying with that kids jell toy made in China.
absorb facts he cain't
he ate too much lead paint?
Please, let's try to be accurate. JuTruUS is not BillyBob.
He's BILLIYBOBJONES7678.
We keep leaving out the second "I" in Bill-I-y.
Still, he is one class act. And he just oozes facts.
Well I wish he'd come back and tell us how to pronounce that second "i"
perhaps bill-eye-ee-bob-jones/numbers?
But more importantly, his current moniker justicetruthus/numbers just misses; it should be: just-icky-truthiness
Poor Krauthammer. Having been miserably wrong about everything for years, he's decided to go bugsh!t crazy.
The ironic thing is that, he's still wrong.
Mag, I always enjoy your posts, but I really don't think there's anything ironic about Krauthammer being wrong. He's SUPPOSED to be wrong, that's what he gets paid for. There's nothing ironic about saying that after all these years, rattlesnakes are still dangerous. It isn't irony, it's just a simple fact and as predictable as which way is East. If Krauthammer was ever right about anything, they'd dock his paycheck. You can't have effective DoubleThink without people like Krauthammer explaining to the drones that just because something is wrong, that doesn't mean it isn't right; just because you're opposed to drug use, that doesn't mean you can't use them yourself; just because you're opposed to homosexuality, that doesn't mean you can't flay footsie in the men's room; just because all you do is flap your lips and tell people to SHUT UP, that doesn't mean you're not a warrior; and just because you're compassionate, that doesn't mean you have to care. If irony is what you're looking for, you don't have to look very hard: the Republican party is as full of irony as an outhouse is full of stink.
True, true. I tripped over the definition of irony here. Maybe it would be irony, if he were right for a change. I didn't get much sleep this weekend.
"the fact that [Giuliani] recommended [Kerik] for [secretary of the Department of] Homeland Security is, in some odd way, exonerating." Krauthammer continued: "[T]he man is not an idiot. If he had actually thought there was real criminality here, as we see in the indictment, you don't recommend a guy for a post like that if you assume he really is linked with the Mafia, he really has been involved in corruption."
The odd fact is that Krauthammer finds Giuliani's recommendation of a guy with Mafia ties "exonerating" It's exasperating, excruciating excretement.
Oddly I find Krauthammer's defense of Giuliani incriminating. After all Krauthammer is not an idiot and must have recognized the idiocy of his logic. So why would a nonidiot knowingly say something idiotic?