Scarborough: "[I]t seems to me you have your Holocaust deniers ... then you have your Giuliani deniers"
SUMMARY: On Morning Joe, without citing any examples, Joe Scarborough stated, "[Y]ou have your Holocaust deniers ... then you have your Giuliani deniers. And Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with September 11th." But as Mika Brzezinski later noted, "There are a lot of people who have a lot of criticisms for Rudy Giuliani, and how he handled 9-11 before it happened."
On the December 12 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, host Joe Scarborough stated: "[I]t seems to me you have your Holocaust deniers, and then you have -- not to sound like [University of Alabama head football coach] Nick Saban ... I apologize already for saying this ... then you have your Giuliani deniers. And Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with September 11th. Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with cleaning up New York City in the 1990s." Scarborough did not name anyone who has said that Giuliani "had nothing to do with September 11th." In fact, as co-host Mika Brzezinski noted later in the segment, "There are a lot of people who have a lot of criticisms for Rudy Giuliani, and how he handled 9-11 before it happened."
Brzezinski also stated: "[T]here are people who will argue that, against the advice of his advisers, he put the command center under the World Trade Center, and also, under his watch, the radios didn't work. Media Matters for America has repeatedly documented the media's referring to Giuliani as "America's Mayor" or the "hero of 9-11" without noting criticism of his actions.
Scarborough's comments were first noted by The Huffington Post.
Scarborough, Brzezinski, and MSNBC host Chris Matthews were discussing the results of a recent Washington Post-ABC News poll, which found that 38 percent of Republican and Republican-leaning respondents think Giuliani is "the strongest leader," twice the percentage received by any other Republican candidate. Earlier in the discussion, Matthews had asserted that Republicans "think he might be an SOB. And the one thing is, he's an authentic SOB. I mean, he really looks like one, acts like one, talks like one -- he is the real thing. He is not a nice guy; he's a tough guy. And at 3 o'clock in the morning on the subway, do you want a nice guy to get on -- do you want [Mike] Huckabee joining you on the subway -- or do you want this guy who looks like he might just have brass knuckles on?" Media Matters has previously documented Matthews calling Giuliani a "street-corner conservative" and "the kind of gutsy, street-corner politician we all grew up with."
From the December 12 edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe:
MATTHEWS: I was thinking that -- Giuliani's the other strong favorite. He's once again selected as the best leader, the most experienced, and I think the best chance to win. But the fact that he's still the best leader in the Republican Party is the key thing. Republicans like leaders, and I still think that's why he's the front-runner. If you look down the stretch, he can win the big states with the unit rule. He could do well in Florida; he can do well in New York, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, California, Washington, Oregon. He could win the coasts big time and win the nomination a little slower and a little dirtier than he'd like, but he'll win it.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, but isn't it -- sorry -- isn't it because people just think he simply can win, as opposed to whether or not they agree with what he stands for? Is it -- are we still there?
MATTHEWS: Yeah, that's where they're at. You're right, Mika. They think he can win it. And they think he's a leader, and they think he might be an SOB. And one thing is, he's an authentic SOB.
I mean, he really looks like one, acts like one, talks like one -- he is the real thing. He is not a nice guy; he's a tough guy. And at 3 o'clock in the morning on the subway, do you want a nice guy to get on -- do you want Huckabee joining you on the subway -- or do you want this guy who looks like he might just have brass knuckles on? You don't know.
SCARBOROUGH: I want Giuliani sitting next to me on the subway.
BRZEZINSKI: You don't want Huckabee?
MATTHEWS: I think that's what you want. You want [former New York City police commissioner] Bernie Kerik sitting next to you on the subway is what you really want.
SCARBOROUGH: You're damn straight I want Bernie Kerik. I will not criticize Bernie Kerik --
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, Lord!
SCARBOROUGH: -- because I can walk around the streets of New York City at 2 in the morning and not be afraid for my life.
BRZEZINSKI: Chris --
SCARBOROUGH: You're damn --
MATTHEWS: I felt that, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: You're damn straight.
MATTHEWS: Joe, I'm an out-of-towner, too.
[...]
BRZEZINSKI: Is this because of Giuliani's work as mayor?
SCARBOROUGH: You're damn straight it is.
BRZEZINKSI: Because some people argue that actually, the work that --
SCARBOROUGH: Some people my ass.
BRZEZINKSI: -- was done by the previous mayor finally kicked in by the time Giuliani --
[crosstalk]
SCARBOROUGH: [Former New York City mayor] David Dinkins?
BRZEZINKSI: I'm just telling you --
SCARBOROUGH: Mika, please, tell me you are not that --
MATTHEWS: Mika, Mika.
BRZEZINSKI: Go ahead, Chris.
SCARBOROUGH: -- liberal that you are crediting the lack of time --
BRZEZINKSI: Would you let Chris talk?
MATTHEWS: I've got two words for Mika.
BRZEZINKSI: Chris is in the shower.
MATTHEWS: Mika, I've got words two for you.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, no.
MATTHEWS: "Crown Heights."
BRZEZINSKI: Crown Heights.
MATTHEWS: Crown Heights.
BRZEZINSKI: All right.
MATTHEWS: And the guy couldn't decide between the killers of Yankel -- what's his name -- Rosenbaum, the Talmudic scholar, and the people that killed him. He was the honest referee. "Wait a minute," as Churchill said, "don't confuse, you know, the fire brigade with the fire. We're on the side of the fire brigade, got it?"
SCARBOROUGH: All right, Chris, Mika Brzezinski --
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, no.
SCARBOROUGH: -- has just --
BRZEZINSKI: Ai, ai, ai.
SCARBOROUGH: No. She has just given me a great opening to ask you a question about Giuliani haters. And I'm not saying she is one.
BRZEZINSKI: I'm not.
SCARBOROUGH: But it seems to me you have your Holocaust deniers, and then you have -- not to sound like Nick Saban --
BRZEZINSKI: Oh, no.
SCARBOROUGH: I apologize already for saying this.
BRZEZINSKI: Oh no.
SCARBOROUGH: And then you have -- then you have your Giuliani deniers. And Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with September 11th. Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with cleaning up New York City in the 1990s.
BRZEZINSKI: OK.
SCARBOROUGH: Hold on a second, Mika. Because, I swear to God, is this not a problem for Democrats moving forward? Because I hear it time and time again and it's just a narrative that doesn't sell.
[...]
SCARBOROUGH: So, I go back to Giuliani, though. Why is it that Democrats continue to try to say that he had nothing to do with leadership --
MATTHEWS: 'Cause they're afraid of him.
BRZEZINSKI: You know what, Chris? No.
MATTHEWS: They're afraid because they -- because the Hillary-Giuliani race would be a dog fight. It would be brutal. It would be rough to watch. It wouldn't be pleasant, and at the end of it, nobody really knows who will win. It is throwing the cards in the air. I don't know who would win that fight. Hillary Clinton could come off as Jack Kennedy-smooth, look like a million bucks, be Grace Kelley with brains and toughness. Rudy could look like a sweating, scared Nixon with water coming out of his nose, dripping down his face. I mean, you don't know what's going to happen in a fight like that.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: I mean, I could -- you could put place our bets [inaudible] by the way, and it would be the best bet of our lives, because who knows who would be the Nixon and who would be the Kennedy in that race. Because everybody thought Kennedy was going to be the Nixon. Then he chickened out.
Everybody thought Nixon was unbeatable. He beat [former Soviet leader Nikita] Khrushchev, he beat -- he would have killed [two-time Democratic presidential candidate Adlai] Stevenson, he beat [Nixon's opponent in the 1950 California U.S. Senate race] Helen Gahagan Douglas, he beat [Nixon's opponent in a 1946 congressional race, former Rep.] Jerry Voorhis [D-CA]. He would've beaten anybody, but he couldn't beat Jack Kennedy. So, you just never know. That's the fun of politics.
BRZEZINSKI: Yeah, I think that's fair.
SCARBOROUGH: It's fascinating.
[crosstalk]
BRZEZINSKI: Am I allowed to respond to the Giuliani denier comment you made, or is it so unpopular --
SCARBOROUGH: Sure.
BRZEZINSKI: -- that I should keep my mouth shut, because people think --
SCARBOROUGH: No, go ahead. If you want to credit --
MATTHEWS: I think you've got to start with the Holocaust. [laughs]
SCARBOROUGH: If you want to credit David Dinkins for --
BRZEZINSKI: I'm not --
SCARBOROUGH: -- New York being safer --
BRZEZINSKI: But, listen. Look --
SCARBOROUGH: -- then you go ahead, if that makes you feel better.
BRZEZINSKI: All right, let me do the 9-11 thing, because, look, he was very much a leader on the day of 9-11, but leading up to 9-11, there are people who will argue that, against the advice of his advisers, he put the command center under the World Trade Center, and also, under his watch, the radios didn't work. There are a lot of people who have a lot of criticisms for Rudy Giuliani, and how he handled 9-11 before it happened.
SCARBOROUGH: OK, and all I'm saying is that Democrats need to understand that Rudy Giuliani, after 9-11, was selected as Time's "Man of the Year." He was the one leader --
BRZEZINSKI: And I think that goes to what Chris is saying.
SCARBOROUGH: -- in a country, in a world looking for leaders.
BRZEZINSKI: I think you're right.
SCARBOROUGH: And so, yeah, they can talk all they want to, but I think they're wasting their time.
BRZEZINSKI: But don't deny certain parts of the story that are there.
SCARBOROUGH: All I'm saying is, you focus on weaknesses that are going to actually draw blood: 9-11 and New York City. Yeah, I want to see the ad that says, "Actually, David Dinkins is the person that cleaned up New" -- come on, Chris.
Rudy, is just like all of the other republican candidates, fake tough guys. It's funny that they portray themselves as some tough bad ass dudes, when in actuality, if anyone ever punched them in the face, they'd probably fall down in a corner and cry. Sort of like how most right wing radio talk show hosts are fake tough guys as well. Tough talking behind the mic, no balls in front of it, but that's a different story.
Back to the topic. Comparing people who criticize Rudy to the Holocaust? Is he freakin' serious?!?! Well, I guess that he is, although he did apologize before he said it, so I guess that makes it OK. These guys and their bad analogies these days, it's killing me. Hey, let's take one of the worst atrocities visited on the human race probably ever, and compare it with some folks who don't like Rudy G.
Nice job Scarborough. Nice one. You really know how to make a point you idiot.
SCARBOROUGH: then you have your Giuliani deniers. And Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with September 11th.
NAME ONE! Just ONE who says Rudy had "nothing to do with" 9/11????!!!??? Who ARE these "deniers"?????
We're waiting, Joe, for you to claim a shred of credibility, instead of choking to death on the straw from the strawmen you create to do battle with. Absolutely pitiful.
Again with the 3 AM subway ride?
When was the last time Rudy, Joe or Tweety rode the subway at any time of the day?
"And Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with September 11th."
I didn't even realize there was anybody accusing Julie-Annie of being involved in terrorism. But... this theory intrigues me...
You mean Scarborough's one of those tin foil hat guys who think it was an inside job and the buildings were dynamited?
And he thinks Rudy was in on it?
That's what it looks like, WK.
If a Holocaust denier is somebody who pretends that horror and its perpetrators didn't exist in order to promote a similar mindset, I'll assume a Rudy-denier is somebody who is ignoring RG's attack on America in order to get him elected president, where he can execute further terrorism.
Unless you have a less sensible explanation for these comments.
"And Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with September 11th."
Bullsh*t. Classic strawman. What I hear Democrats saying is that he's exploiting the fact that he just happened to be there on 9/11 and tried to portray himself as some kind of hero, which he wasn't. He's building his whole campaign on this image of himself as Mr. 9/11, and he really didn't do anything remarkable that day.
This Joe vs Mika combo is beginning to look suspiciously like the Hannity and Colmes matchup. Mika seems like a fine person, but Joe just runs rings around her.
Rudy exploiting 9/11?
Why he waited almost 90 seconds into the debate today before he mentioned Islamic terrorism when answering a question about the economy.
Giuliani happen to be the NYC Mayor on 9/11. I fail to see anything exceptional he did that most other competent mayors wouldn't have done. Hell even bumbling mumbling Menino in Boston could have filled the role just as well.
Rudy's whole shtick for the Presidency is 9/11.
It's bogus...
Hey, he's good at keeping mistresses safe. Give credit there even though it was at the taxpayer's expense.
I understand the Rudy attraction now, it's damn hard to get a Taxi in Manhattan.
Wow, with statements like that, it makes me miss the likes of Imus and McJerk! *shudders*
Not to worry! Imus must be back on the job; there is a new article about him saying something idiotic yet again...
But Huckabee can call God on the phone, isn't that the ultimate Ace in the hole for these guys?
That hasn't really worked for "W" yet has it?
But he also has the option of looking into people's souls when he meets them, so he's got a double whammie up his sleeve. Next thing we know, he'll be rolling bones and busting out the tarot cards, or maybe consulting an astrologer.
Fundies don't like Tarot cards and astrology.
Unless the 3 kings (said to be astrologers from Persia) came to Herod bearing flame throwers to match the rhetoric in the "Left Behind" series...
Nancy Reagan was into astrology...
History will show both Bush and Giuliani in similar light regarding 9/11, depending on the political leanings of the publisher.
Bush is the guy we saw with the bull horn standing in the rubble of ground zero and decreeing America’s vengeance -OR- Bush is the guy we saw in the classroom with the darting eyes reading from The Pet Goat and then not moving for 7 minutes immediately after being told of the defining 2nd attack.
Giuliani is either the guy we saw briskly walking with purpose and authority, dust mask over face, through the chaotic streets of Manhattan on 9/11 and standing tall at firefighter’s funerals in the days of the aftermath. - OR - Giuliani is the confused looking guy being shuffled through underground building tunnels trying to figure where to set up a temporary command post because the very building where he built his Office of Emergency Management headquarters was on the 23rd floor of the just evacuated building which happened to be directly adjacent to the same building terrorists had tried to destroy 8 years earlier - and had just succeeded at finishing the job – and for which the forced evacuation had also caused an inability to coordinate communications between responders.
I think the confusion lies in the difference between definitions of a Patriot and a Hero. There’s no denying that both Bush and Guiliani acted like true Patriots and where instrumental in keeping the nation together during a time of crisis – and both should be commended for their actions. But HERO? I don’t see hero here anywhere – who/what did they rescue, other than their own egos?
I believe that the term "hero" gets tossed around way too much these days.
Magnolia,
You're right. "Hero" has become almost meaningless.
PJ:
Remind me: what was the DATE that we saw GW Bush with the bullhorn? I really can't recall seeing him there at the scene at the time of the action.
He could, today, perhaps take his bullhorn the the rubble of the Berlin Wall, and make a rousing appeal for freedom and liberty and opposing tyranny ... but somehow, it seems the train has left the station for that particular pile of rubble.
TIMING, more than anything, makes HEROES and PATRIOTS, and distinguishes them from opportunists and posers.
PJ:
I made my point about TIMING, but I did not compliment your otherwise EXCELLENT contrast of visions.
Great job, showing that evaluating a person's performance cannot be based on a single snapshot.
My bad, not praising your otherwise excellent work (aside from my taking exception with the defining of "hero" and "patriot".
Sorry, and keep up the good work.
Thank you for making my day! 09-14-01 - Google "bush bullhorn" and you'll have a field day.
What is he talking about?
Sue:
He Who?
Scarborugh, could he be any more offensive ?
Sueeld on this one you and me couldn't agree more,what he said was very offensive and to me was even more offensive than what Imus said,but I doubt he will recieve the same treatment! His treatment of Mika(mocking her)displays something deeper about is attidue toward women, male superiority at the least. Someone posted earlier his interaction with her is akin to Fox's Hannity and Colmes, I agree and I think it says alot about how the male dominated media decision makers portray women. I'am a middle African American man and I find this totally offensive.
sorry for the mispelled words what I meant ot say is middle aged African American male,guess I'll have to control my anger better but Joe S. really got to me on this one. I wish there was more we could do to voice protest than to blog on this site and contact him and the station, but at least a dialogue about this is a start.
We could move from tossing arround, up to using an atheletic impliment,Hockey or Lacross sticks. Tennis anyone?
Julie, a hero? Just another in a long line of designated, slightly overweight "mature"bald white heros. With which the lord has blessed us in abundance. And there was a great aplauding!
Classic. Best part of this trainwreck is that Scarborough was once elected to office. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, people voluntarily said that they wanted THIS heap of dung to represent them in government.
But I do like his tastes in music.
"Giuliani deniers will tell you he had nothing to do with September 11th."
So I guess Scarborough thinks Giuliani was involved in the 9/11 plot?
Guiliani deniers = Holocaust deniers?????? What planet are you from?