Savage makes degrading comments about House Speaker, other prominent Dem women
SUMMARY: Michael Savage referred to Rep. Jane Harman, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, and Sen. Barbara Boxer as "yentas," said Harman should "[g]o home and cook verenikis," and suggested that they were in office because they "have rich husbands who put them in power with their money, so they could have a little hobby in between getting their nails done." Later Savage asked his "board operator" if he would rather "be waterboarded for 30 seconds or eat Jane Harman's ravioli" and whether he'd rather "be waterboarded or eat Nancy Pelosi's tortellini."
On the December 12 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Michael Savage referred to Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA), Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA), and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) as "yentas," said Harman should "[g]o home and cook verenikis," and suggested that the three were in office because they "have rich husbands who put them in power with their money, so they could have a little hobby in between getting their nails done." Savage later asked his "board operator" if he would rather "be waterboarded for 30 seconds or eat Jane Harman's ravioli" and whether he'd rather "be waterboarded or eat Nancy Pelosi's tortellini."
After playing a clip of Harman saying, "I think waterboarding, which -- another name for which is the Chinese water torture, is torture, and I think that John McCain is right, that if we ..." Savage interrupted and said:
SAVAGE: Aw, shut up, will you, you yenta. Get this yenta off. Go home and cook verenikis, OK? Do the American people a favor, and go home and cook. Go home. Go home and cook better instead of wasting our time with your stupid feelings. We don't care about your feelings. Now what would you recommend, Jane Harman? To get information from hardened men like this, who would slaughter their own people in a mosque. Who kill their fellow Muslims without any thought about it. What would you do to get information out of them, Jane? Probably have them listen to you and Barbara Boxer have a conversation for a few minutes, could break them faster than waterboarding.
Savage played another clip of Harman saying, "The proof I have seen and read about is --" and then Savage said:
SAVAGE: The proof she has seen and read about. She has no experience in interrogating hardened Al Qaeda members, but she's read about it. Where'd you read about it? In The New Yorker? While you're getting your nails done? In the beauty parlor while getting your hair done? Where'd you read about it, in The New Yorker? While Sy Hersh is writing another one of his disinformation articles? Where'd you read about it? In the L.A. Times weekend edition, while getting your toenails done? What a -- this is the kind of world why it gets me agitated. A real addition to America is to have women like this in politics.
Get out of our way and let us win this war against terror is what I'd like to say. And by the way, I speak for America. Make no mistake about it. It's why your ratings are in the toilet. It's why Congress has the lowest ratings in history. It's because of yentas like Jane Harman, yentas like Barbara Boxer, yentas like Nancy Pelosi, and the weakling half-men in the Democrat [sic ] Party who are waving the white flag. That's why you're hated by the American people. Make no mistake about it. We don't give a rat's behind about how you interrogate Al Qaeda. Our hats are off to the brave men in the intelligence agencies who have to face those scum and be in the same cells with them. But you're worried more about how they interrogate them. You're concerned every day about how they're treated.
Savage continued:
SAVAGE: Do you know that the Al Qaeda members at Gitmo are treated better than the Nazis were. They are treated better than the Nazis were at Nuremberg. That came out yesterday. And that's because these yentas who are living in unreality, who don't understand the first thing about the world they're living in, but have rich husbands who put them in power with their money, so they could have a little hobby in between getting their nails done. They're the ones who are standing up and saying, don't waterboard, don't torture. You do it the old-fashioned way. I read it in a book, a magazine, on the airline. I read you can get it by talking to 'em. Just talk to 'em in a nice way. You'll get the information. Go home. Get out of politics. Go play with your grandchildren. Do anything. Do anything, but get out of politics, you yenta.
Savage opened another segment on waterboarding by playing a clip of Sen. Christopher "Kit" Bond (R-MO) from the December 11 edition of PBS' The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer in which Bond stated: "It's absolutely outrageous that a former CIA agent would discuss what -- these kinds of things. Because once you describe what techniques are being used -- and they are far less serious and threatening than techniques we use on Marines and pilots who go through our training -- then the high-value detainees will never speak to us." After playing the clip of Bond, Savage said, "See the damage that Barbara Boxer, Jane Harman, and the Democrats are doing to our ability to win the war on terror? Our own men are subjected to tougher techniques than waterboarding, but that doesn't concern them." Savage earlier played a portion of the Bond interview in which Bond said of waterboarding, "[T]here are different ways of doing it. It's like swimming -- freestyle, backstroke."
Savage then discussed waterboarding with Phil Newmar, "the board operator for this show," and told his listeners that Newmar "has just volunteered to go on record right now saying he would subject -- be subjected to waterboarding right on this program to show you that it's not torture." Newmar later said, "I'm more than willing to step up and experience it firsthand before, you know, I make any judgments on it." Savage told Newmar, "We'll have to get somebody from the CIA to do it or somebody who knows how to waterboard you," and proceeded to ask him the following of Harman, Boxer, and Pelosi:
SAVAGE: Would you rather be waterboarded for 30 seconds or eat Jane Harman's ravioli?
NEWMAR: It would definitely be the waterboarding, sir.
SAVAGE: Would you rather be waterboarded or be in the same room with Barbara Boxer after a family argument?
NEWMAR: I'm going to have to ask to be waterboarded twice.
SAVAGE: [laughs] And the last question: Would you rather be waterboarded or eat Nancy Pelosi's tortellini?
NEWMAR: Put a bullet in my head before I'll eat that tortellini.
SAVAGE: [laughs] All right, we're on record, Phil. We'll have to find somebody willing to waterboard you.
According to Wikipedia: "Varenyky (Ukrainian) or vareniki (Russian ...) are a kind of stuffed dumpling associated with Ukrainian cuisine. Some variants are also found in Belarusian, Russian and Polish cooking, and are sometimes said to be of Turkish origin. Varenyky are similar to Polish pierogi, Siberian pelmeni, and Italian ravioli."
As Media Matters for America has documented, Savage has previously said that the U.S. Senate is "more vicious and more histrionic than ever, specifically because women have been injected into" it. Savage has also previously singled out Boxer, calling her a "weasel," a "harridan," and a "lying little witch." As Media Matters also noted, Hollywood's Creative Artists Agency reportedly dropped its representation of Savage two days after announcing that it had signed him as a client. The move followed a rant by Savage on February 26, documented by Media Matters for America, over singer Melissa Etheridge's Academy Awards acceptance speech, in which she thanked her wife. Savage said, "I don't like a woman married to a woman. It makes me want to puke. ... I want to vomit when I hear it. I think it's child abuse." In 2003, Savage was fired by MSNBC for telling a gay caller he should "get AIDS and die."
Talk Radio Network, which syndicates Savage's show, says that Savage is heard on more than 350 radio stations. The Savage Nation reaches more than 8 million listeners each week, according to Talkers Magazine , making it one of the most listened-to talk radio shows in the nation, behind only The Rush Limbaugh Show and The Sean Hannity Show.
From the December 12 edition of Talk Radio Network's The Savage Nation:
SAVAGE: So we've got schmucks in Congress like Jane Harman worried about how Al Qaeda was treated. Whether they were waterboarded and whether the interrogation tapes are around. This is why their ratings are in the toilet.
Here's a message from the American people to the Democrats who are worried about how Al Qaeda was treated at Gitmo and whether they were waterboarded. Here's our message to you, you idiots: We hope they were waterboarded. In fact, we'd recommend even more torture. We're glad that no bombs have gone off in America since 9-11. And if you idiots would get out of the way, we could wipe the planet of this virus. But because of schmucks like Jane Harman and because of schmucks like Barbara Boxer and because of the whole Democrat machine, we're worried now about whether or not they were treated properly in their interrogations. But the American people don't see it that way. And the media won't tell you why they're hated.
Now here's former CIA agent John Kiriakou making a great argument for the use of waterboarding while being opposed to it. Listen to 07.
KIRIAKOU [audio clip]: He was unwilling, completely unwilling to give up information early on. He was perfectly willing to engage you in a conversation once he was through the medical danger that he was in initially. But the conversations were about philosophy, about Islam versus Christianity. They weren't substantive.
SAVAGE: Mm-hm. But listen to 09 now, not 8.
KIRIAKU [audio clip]: It's my understanding he lasted 30 or 35 seconds, which was quite remarkable. The next day, he told his interrogator that Allah had visited him in his cell during the night and told him to cooperate because it would make it easier on the other brothers who had been captured.
SAVAGE: Isn't that interesting. So, waterboarding helped him see Allah. So there's an argument for using it. If it could help radical Muslims have a visit - a personal visit from Allah, then there's an argument for using waterboarding. It's amazing to me that this has not reached the Democrats on the committee. You'd think that they'd be interested in religion and how people can meet their prophets. Listen to clip 20:
[begin audio clip]
GWEN IFILL [NewsHour senior correspondent]: Do you think that waterboarding as I described it, is, constitutes torture?
KIT BOND: Uh, there are different ways of doing it. It's like swimming -- freestyle, backstroke.
[end audio clip]
SAVAGE: Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. Mmm-hmm. Now here's Jane Harman, one of the silliest women -- I would say next to Barbara Boxer she's about as silly as they come. It makes our enemies laugh at us to think that women from Brooklyn like this are on intelligence committees. Listen to 21.
HARMAN [audio clip]: I think waterboarding, which another name for --
SAVAGE: Hold it. Jane, Jane, we're not talking about waterskiing. We're not talking about a Disney movie from the 1960's when you were a girl. We're talking about interrogating terrorists. We're not talking about waterskiing, so let's back that tape up, play 21 again.
HARMAN [audio clip]: I think waterboarding, which -- another name for which is the Chinese water torture, is torture, and I think that John McCain is right, that if we --
SAVAGE: Aw, shut up, will you, you yenta. Get this yenta off. Go home and cook verenikis, OK? Do the American people a favor, and go home and cook. Go home. Go home and cook better instead of wasting our time with your stupid feelings. We don't care about your feelings. Now what would you recommend, Jane Harman? To get information from hardened men like this, who would slaughter their own people in a mosque. Who kill their fellow Muslims without any thought about it. What would you do to get information out of them, Jane? Probably have them listen to you and Barbara Boxer have a conversation for a few minutes, could break them faster than waterboarding. Listen to what she recommends in 23:
HARMAN: [audio clip]: The proof I have seen and read about is that the old-fashioned forms of interrogation get the truth. Things that are more extreme are the ones that get the people being tortured just to say anything to get that treatment to stop.
SAVAGE: I want you to listen to the beginning of this lie. Listen to it again. Twenty-three.
HARMAN [audio clip]: The proof I have seen and read about is that --
SAVAGE: Hold it. The proof she has seen and read about. She has no experience in interrogating hardened Al Qaeda members, but she's read about it. Where'd you read about it? In The New Yorker? While you're getting your nails done? What'd you read it in the beauty parlor while getting your hair done? Where'd you read it, in The New Yorker? While Sy Hersh wrote another one of his disinformation articles? Where'd you read about it? In the LA Times weekend edition, while getting your toenails done? What a -- this is the kind of world why it gets me agitated. A real addition to America is to have women like this in politics.
Get out of our way and let us win this war against terror is what I'd like to say. And by the way, I speak for America. Make no mistake about it. It's why your ratings are in the toilet. It's why Congress has the lowest ratings in history. It's because of yentas like Jane Harman, yentas like Barbara Boxer, yentas like Nancy Pelosi, and the weakling half-men in the Democrat Party who are waving the white flag. That's why you're hated by the American people. Make no mistake about it. We don't give a rat's behind about how you interrogate Al Qaeda. Our hats are off to the brave men in the intelligence agencies who have to face those scum and be in the same cells with them. But you're worried more about how they interrogate them. You're concerned every day about how they're treated.
Do you know that the Al Qaeda members at Gitmo are treated better than the Nazis were. They are treated better than the Nazis were at Nuremberg. That came out yesterday. And that's because these yentas who are living in unreality, who don't understand the first thing about the world they're living in, but have rich husbands who put them in power with their money, so they could have a little hobby in between getting their nails done. They're the ones who are standing up and saying, don't waterboard, don't torture. You do it the old-fashioned way. I read it in a book, a magazine, on the airline. I read you can get it by talking to 'em. Just talk to 'em in a nice way. You'll get the information. Go home. Get out of politics. Go play with your grandchildren. Do anything. Do anything, but get out of politics, you yenta.
[commercial break]
BOND [audio clip]: It's absolutely outrageous that a former CIA agent would discuss what -- these kinds of things. Because once you describe what techniques are being used -- and they are far less serious and threatening than techniques we use on Marines and pilots who go through our training -- then the high-value detainees will never speak to us.
SAVAGE: See the damage that Barbara Boxer, Jane Harman, and the Democrats are doing to our ability to win the war on terror? Our own men are subjected to tougher techniques than waterboarding, but that doesn't concern them.
Now, Phil Newmar is the board operator for this show. And he has just volunteered to go on record right now saying he would subject -- be subjected to waterboarding right on this program to show you that it's not torture. Phil, is that right? Come on the air.
NEWMAR: Yes, sir. I would do it in a heartbeat.
SAVAGE: Phil, do you have any military experience?
NEWMAR: None whatsoever.
SAVAGE: And you're still not afraid of waterboarding. You know what it is?
NEWMAR: I know exactly what it is. I've seen it in movies, I've seen Code Pink do it. I'm more than willing to step up and experience it firsthand before, you know, I make any judgments on it.
SAVAGE: All right. But you're willing to be waterboarded live on the air on The Savage Nation sometime in the future. We'll have to get somebody from the CIA to do it or somebody who knows how to waterboard you. Would you rather be waterboarded for 30 seconds or eat Jane Harman's ravioli?
NEWMAR: It would definitely be the waterboarding, sir.
SAVAGE: Would you rather be waterboarded or be in the same room with Barbara Boxer after a family argument?
NEWMAR: I'm going to have to ask to be waterboarded twice.
SAVAGE: [laughs] And the last question: Would you rather be waterboarded or eat Nancy Pelosi's tortellini?
NEWMAR: Put a bullet in my head before I'll eat that tortellini.
SAVAGE: [laughs] All right, we're on record, Phil. We'll have to find somebody willing to waterboard you. Thank you for [unintelligible]. So this is what's disturbing the Democrats, the white-flaggers, which is that we're not treating our detainees, who would blow up their children's nursery school, properly. It's sickening. Now you know why their ratings are in the toilet.
The newspapers will tell you that Congress has a lower rating that Bush, but they won't tell you why. This is the reason why. It's this kind of behavior that they have these investigations every other day, the Democrats. Waterboarding. The CIA interro-- we don't care. We want tougher interrogation, not weaker. Tougher, not weaker.
I think I have had my fill of Savage the last two days reading MMFA, it makes me want to take a long shower, the man is so disgusting.
Savage must say something ignorant every day, so just be grateful we don't have daily Savage threads.
3 in 2 days is enough for me!
luckily only .001 percent of the population tunes into this drivel.
Luckily, MUCH less than that even knows about Hillary's little scheme going on here.
SAVAGE!
Maybe thats because people dont read your mind (shudder) so they arent in on YOUR delusions
No, not really. Mr. Savage has a listenership of about 10 million out of a population of about 300 million..so that's about 3%.
More liberal lies..or stupidity.
That number, 10 million is itself a lie in the context you present it. 10 million is a maximum per week, which when divided by the five days in which he blares his screeds works out to about 2 million a day.
Furthermore, the ten-million represents listeners in fifteen minute intervals. It does not mean he has ten million avid listeners sitting by the radio for the whole three hours.
"Would you rather be waterboarded or eat Nancy Pelosi's tortellini?"
Does anyone else find this statement really, really sexually charged?
From now on, I'm going to call a woman's nether-regions "tortelloni."
Anyway, I don't know where else to put this, but here:
http://www.wexlerwantshearings.com/
finally, someone starting to take a stand.
dbeden, I had the same thoughts (re: sexual innuendo about the pasta), but I don't think it's deliberate.
My guess is in his attempt to be macho and put these women in their place, weiner has accidentally come out of the closet.To everybody but himself.
It seems pretty clear he's more afraid of women than torture. And this guy is afraid of everything.
It sure beats the heck out of calling it 'nether-regions'. That phrase sounds like it came from the 40's, or somewhere trolls live.
Well, ya got somethin there. If fact I think it IS where trolls live.
I think Savage is having some S and M fantasies. His real desire is to be dominated by powerful Democratic women. Waterboarding is part of the "treatment".
I think that in your own delusion you find the most obscure things "sexually charged". Normal people such as i do not see such things as well as you do, but then again I'm sure you're proud of this.
Woohooo! Uncle Cracker is back with some of his pseudo intellectual flimflam. Sorry, we ran out of troll food with Ripper.
Woohooo! Uncle Cracker is back with some of his pseudo intellectual flimflam. Sorry, we ran out of troll food with Ripper.
Juliajayne, THAT was funny! ;-)
Are we still allowed to call people "cracker"? I thought that was a racist term used by racists when derogatorily describing someone of another race. Correct me, if I'm wrong, please. Isn't it equal to calling someone the N-word? I would assume that since it is just fine to use cracker on this site, then I can start using the N-word in it's entirity??
Oh please. I guess that means you don't need much provocation to use the N word.
This comment section, as reported by the MSM:
Some honkies buy it, some don't. :)
JuliaJane, That is beside the point. You made a negatory racist comment, and yet I cannot? I guess it is because my race is in the role of the oppressor not the victim. Thus blacks are incapable of racism, it is a white trait. This is one of the greatest evils of modern liberalism, the existence of many double-standards. You disgust me. and no, it is not because of your race.
you are disgusted, yet you answered your own question. The race that oppressed should avoid racial slurs against the victims of that oppression.
It's a bit disengenuous of you to claim any higher ground when you listen to Weiner, and like what he says.
I'm white you idiot. And my husband is AA. Your exhortation of "the beautiful white race" previously is what I was referring to when I called you Uncle Cracker. Besides being apt, it WAS funny. And your pseudo intellectual blather is a hoot. You really do take yourself too seriously. And what do I care what you think of me. You love a racist, homophobic, vile man in Savage. Really, do you not get the irony? Sheesh. These Weiner lovers are truly unreal.
"Normal people such as i do not see such things as well as you do"
That may be the highest concentration of mistakes in an MMFA post ever(or at least as long as I've been coming around here)
Waitaminnit, Fin- with all of those such's and such as's are you Miss South Carolina???
JuliaJane, i presume that you call me Flim flam to insult me with some vague allusion to my moniker, but there is a poster called FlimFlam so to avoid confusion you may want to discontinue this.
Beg your pardon for the grammatical mistakes in my previous post.
flim-flam
My point is that there is another poster by the name of FlimFlam, thus you may cause confusion as to whom you may be referring to. I am surprised you managed not to catch that in the first place.
Flimflam is a word that aptly describes your posts. I can see why you want to run away from it.
Fine. whatever. Just trying to help. I personally think confusion is time consuming, but evidently you are not of same sentiment.
Don't think we're confused about you. You like flim-flam & phlegm, finarfin.
I don't think anyone was confused except for Fin I am. But yes, run like the wind from your flim flammery. Was that a "negatory" comment?
Then if waterboarding isn't torture, and it's OK for us to use it, it's OK if captured American's are waterboarded by our enemies, correct?
If one accepts your premise, then yes, of course it's correct ...
... but I can't imagine anyone considering this premise correct.
I'll admit I'm not about to go out on a limb to ensure the comfort of prisoners (of war, crime, etc.), but there's a huge difference between "discomfort" and the "enhanced interrogation techniques" we practice to ensure that there are "few to no" long-term physical effects.
Uhm....I do believe that his premise is correct, verifiable, based on the fact that we have water boarded and that the White House gave express permission each and every time they used it.So yeah, premise: check.
Hmmm ... and here I thought he was being sarcastic in terms of saying "waterboarding isn't torture." Perhaps my sarcasmometer is broken, especially if you're actually being sarcastic also.
I still can't believe that people would not consider waterboarding torture since it was already declared thus in previous years by our own American government.
Sorry for the confusion. Sarcasm can be as difficult to write as it is to understand .
I'm against all forms of torture, including waterboarding.
It's very respectable of you to have your limits on torture. One quick question though...'what constitutes torture in your world'? I mean, if someone played rap music very loudly 12 hours a day into the room you use at home...would that be torture? Or, if your driveway was a 1/4 mile long and your parents forced you to shovel the snow off of it...would that be torture?
I guess my point is, that what constitutes torture has as many levels with each individual that morality does. What one person considers moral, another may not. Likewise, what one person considers torture, another may not.
Personally, I think that if an enemy has information about impending doom they are devising, I would like my government to protect me and get that information and save as many lives as possible. That IS the governments job, isn't it? To protect me! I already expect the government to give me health care, home loan assistance, education, infrastructure, food, water, electricity...ect. I would certainly expect to get protection from them.
Philb, did you just fall off the turnip truck? Honestly, torture produces bad intl. It's been proven now for many years and it's un-American. It's used by sadistic authoritarians. It's not making anybody safer.
Then you'll probably agree with what I've been saying. Whatever we're willing to subject our enemies to, we should expect the same to be done to Americans held by other forces.
I'm tired of debating with cowards. I'm tired of listening to them spout off about what they would do or better yet, what they would want others to do to prisoners in the name of their country and it's citizens.
Watching a season of Neocon porn like "24" makes them all experts on foreign policy and the treatment of prisoners and how to extract information.
I want to live in the country I was born in, a country which held itself to higher standards. A country of which I could be proud.
Waterboarding is torture. It was torture when used during the Spanish inquisitions, we would consider it torture if used AGAINST Americans its torture. Personally if you have to torture someone to save me, let me die, I dont want to be in any way associated with putting such a stain on my good countries name. When are you bedwetters going to man up and stop being so afraid that you are willing to advocate ANYTHING to make you FEEL safer? Torture is evil. We need to leave evil to the evil people and draw a bright line between their EVIL and what WE do, which defines what we ARE.
"When are you bedwetters going to man up and stop being so afraid that you are willing to advocate ANYTHING to make you FEEL safer?"
Before we use phrases like 'bedwetters' and 'man up' to describe who protects your nation (and your ars), ask yourself what is the percentage of left wing zeolots who have joined the military and are fighting to protect your nation right NOW? Nearly half the nation is left leaning and nearly half is right leaning. Which half walks the walk and talks the talk and which half does not? I guess there's no more to be said about "bedwetters", huh.
First off, you wouldn't believe how many vets post here on a regular basis.
If you need to learn more about the bedwetters in charge of the country and those responsible for selling the latest fiasco, click on this link.
[link to www.rationalwiki.com]
And by the way, your hero, Dr. Weiner is one of the bedwetters too.
Judging by this administrations high chickenhawk content not that many RIGHTWING ZEALOTS sign up either. For the most part they are probably like the public at large not zealots of either stripe. It is the RIGHTWING ZEALOTS in HERE whining, tap my phones take away my rightw WWWWAHHHHH, torture brown people invade anyone just becuase its Thursday, I dont care WWWAWAHHHHH lock people up that thow away the key I dont care about trials just protect me from the scary wolves WWWAHHHHH. I dont really see that many leftwing zealots whining so piteously.
What one finds morally repugnant, another finds amenable? That is straight up moral relativism of the sort Conservatives purport to disdain. I always find that fact amusing when righties excoriate the left for being gray thinkers.
Also the symbols of security you invoke and associate with torture; your home, your driveway, could not be further away from the reality of rendition.
In rendition people are plucked from their homes, their neighborhoods; severed from all they cling to for safety. They are charged with no crime, afforded no legal counsel. They are subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. (That last sentence was lifted straight form the Declaration of Human Rights, of which the U.S. is signatory) Their human rights are violated.
Guilty of terrorism or no all people are entitled to basic human rights. It's what prevents our society form descending into barbarism.
So, I take it that you DO think playing rap music loudly is torture. Sorry, I don't need gray thinkers saving my country. Especially when their moral compass changes from day to day depending who tells them what it is.
Waterboarding works, and has been proven to get good intel. It leaves no physical marks and does not produce any physical danger. Gray thinkers seem to disaprove of anything that works. I prefer someone to be right or wrong and believe in their stance. I don't need you gray thinkers who change their minds depending on what side of the bed you got out of. You are useless and produce no good. Gray thinkers are the true hate-mongers.
I know a lot of rap music, played above "1" on a nearby stereo is like torture for me ... but that's neither here nor there.
Waterboarding may provide useful information; I'm afraid we don't have statistics on that because the government line on that is "We're not doing it, and if we are, we're getting the best information about attacks you'll never know about because we're going to stop them before you know, well, except for the people we find involved in long-range terrorist plots that don't even have any real connection to Al Qaeda except in their dreams."
But if you've got solid proof that Waterboarding works, you can point to attacks that "never happened" and the like, absolutely feel free to do so. In the meanwhile, I invite you to learn more about Waterboarding, including the fact that the US government has prosecuted regimes for performing such acts.
At what point, sir, does this stop being America, and start being one of those faith-based nation of zealots who discard concern for others' basic human rights based on the words of a man who claims he talks to God, and this man's minions. And does it matter if his God is Allah, Jesus, or the almighty dollar? I would hop it does, but your mileage, of course, may vary.
Good response; I would add, however, that it is a known fact that torture does not provide good information. The victim says anything to make the torture stop; so false confessions are what you get.
Thank you, that was the point I was dancing around; I'm afraid I tend to be more verbose and don't always cut to the point ^_^
Sorry, I think I misjudged your post...my fault. Either way, yeah, all sarcasm, or I wish. Sadly, We have water boarded prisoners, and sadly, the White House condoned it. I saw "Red" and your post was kinda vague, so I thought you were dismissing his claim as "liberal propaganda" or something like that.
Again, my fault
Also, The White House has expressly said "We do not torture" So obviously, Water boarding is not torture, according to their logic.
Look, if it wasn't for waterboarding then this country would be overrun by witches.
It was the brave men and women who had the guts to stand up to the witches and force them to confess through waterboarding that saved our great nation.
When did Al Quaeda sign the Geneva Convention? I missed that.
When did the USA remove its name from the Geneva Conventions?
When did the USA stop believing in the Rule of Law?
When did the USA begin to act like the supposed savages we claim to be against?
When did the USA start ignoring its own laws, as it pertains to the treatment of others?
When did the USA decide to ignore and turn its back on being the beacon of light to liberty, justice, and decency?
The answer to all of the above:
Sept 12, 2001.......
If we want to rid ourselves of people that want to destroy us, we need to be true to what this country is supposed to stand for and......
stop interfering in other countries affairs
stop stealing other countries resouces
stop pre-emptively attacking counties that did nothing to us
stop demanding democracy in others when we can't even do it correctly here
stop using in-human tactics ourselves and then hypocritically demand that others not do it
Those that use these methods ARE criminals and need to be thrown in prison!
"stop interfering in other countries affairs" - That would be nice, but in the globalized world we live in today, and the number of immigrant families here in America, it is pretty much impossible.
"stop stealing other countries resouces" - Stealing? Paying nearly $100 per barrel of oil is hardly stealing.
"stop pre-emptively attacking counties that did nothing to us" - Saddam didn't support international terrorism in one way or another? Keep in mind that if Hitler has been pre-emptively been stopped/killed during his rise in the 30's, millions of lives would have been saved.
"stop demanding democracy in others when we can't even do it correctly here" - I agree, but I'm trying to figure out why the same people who bash the fact that we brought democracy Iraq were screaming about the need to ensure democracy in Pakistan with the recent emergency rule by Mushariff?
"stop using in-human tactics ourselves and then hypocritically demand that others not do it" - So, since you obviously know more about interrogating the most vicious of human beings than a CIA interrogator, please enlighten us on a more effective method than waterboarding.
Irrelevant. The CONVENTION against torture statute is NATIONAL LAW. Also the UN convention against torture was RATIFIED by the US giving it the force of LAW. Did you think that unless a person was somehow protected by the Geneva Convention that we were free to do ANYTHING we wanted with him?
Savage made more idiotic rantings on his program....
yyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
Thanks - B.R.F., A.J.W., & A.C.S., that was time well spent.
obviously you thought so, or you would have moved on.
Well reading your stupid post wasnt time well spent. Can I have that five seconds of my life back?
<b><u>So, let's see now...</u></b>
We know that Weiner-boy:
- hates women
- seems to hold a virulent hatred of the LGBT community
- lives in the Bay Area
- Dresses like a <a href="[link to www.savage-productions.com] swarthy version of Truman Capote </a>
I believe the verdict here, ladies and gentlemen, is RAGING CLOSET CASE!So you are accusing him of being gay?
Is that a bad thing? That's not very progressive of you.
He's accusing him of being untrue to himself. Hence the whole "closet" thing...
Ripper - he's accusing Savage of being a hypocrite.
You may want to look that word up in the dictionary, you might learn something about yourself...
Ripper wasn't smart enough to pick the hypocrisy angle out of it based on my second point...weiner boy's constant bashing of the LGBT community.
But of course expecting that sort of logic to resonate with a winger is usually a windmill-tilting exercise, so i guess i shouldn't be surprised.
That was a great show last night. Had me laughing out loud.
SAVAGE: Would you rather be waterboarded or be in the same room with Barbara Boxer after a family argument?
NEWMAR: I'm going to have to ask to be waterboarded twice.
Glad to see Savage is really getting under the left's skin. MMFA can't seem to get enough of him.
I would rather be waterboarded than listen to Weinerdogs insanity. MMFA cant believe how insane the Weinerdog is. When will someone give him the Haldol he so desperatly needs?
You could have just said "I don't like you, or the way you think." Would have saved alot of typing. That would have just kept alot of your negative emotions bottled up though, and that's not healthy.
There seems to be alot of easily angered leftists here. It's probably cathartic for them to have me posting.
It's better for society that you unleash your vitriol here rather than taking it out into your everyday lives. I'll try to continue helping society by posting when I can.
Have a wonderful day!
There once was a savage named Weiner
Whose talk just got meaner and meaner
Just a small-minded man
For the small minded fan
And their brain cells get leaner and leaner.
Savage is full of hate,
this is not a subject for debate,
for if you disagree,
Like ripper previously,
you're a piece of neocon shark-bait.
Yes, Mikey Savage, we've got it. Now go project elsewhere.
Oh please do. What with your delusions AND stupidity you are very amusing.
I'd love to see those guys waterboarded, so they, you know, can make a judgement on whether or not it's torture. They'd crack, and want out in about 10 seconds or less, almost guaranteed.
That's the whole point of waterboarding. it's quick and without any damage done to the person at all.
Waterboarding is a torture technique that simulates drowning in a controlled environment. It consists of immobilizing an individual on his or her back, with the head inclined downward, and pouring water over the face to force the inhalation of water into the lungs. Waterboarding has been used to obtain information, coerce confessions, punish, and intimidate. In contrast to merely submerging the head, waterboarding elicits the gag reflex, and can make the subject believe death is imminent. Waterboarding's use as a method of torture or means to support interrogation is based on its ability to cause extreme mental distress while possibly creating no lasting physical damage to the subject.
The psychological effects on victims of waterboarding can last long after the procedure. Although waterboarding in cases can leave no lasting physical damage, it carries the real risks of extreme pain, damage to the lungs, brain damage caused by oxygen deprivation, injuries as a result of struggling against restraints (including broken bones), and even death.
Confessions or information given by a victim of torture is questionable, since the subject will say anything he thinks the questioner wants to hear in order to make the torture stop.
But what can you do if you're an authoritarian sadist? Where's your outlet? Please answer that one, Mary ;-)
Well I guess they could bang their head into a rock wall. Not sadistic, though, hmm.
It's just the little sissy unmanly lefties that whine and cry after the technique. There are thousands and thousands who have voluntarily gone through the experience.
The only reason for the opposition by the left is because they want to limit our ability to counter the terrorists because they side with them, and this enables them to do so without admitting it.
...just like Gore and his hate for gays and his friendship and support for fred phelps.
Id give it up if I were you. You not only don't know what you're talking about, you obviously haven't bothered to read the postings on here about waterboarding and what it is. It doesn't "simulate" drowning, it IS drowning.
Some day you will have to face what you have allowed people to do in your name.
Are you kidding me? Did you seriously forget about the "definition" of waterboarding you just posted? The first line of it states:
"...technique that simulates drowning in a controlled environment."
So which is it? Simulated, or actual drowning?
yes it is called simulated. My point is that the person subjected to it is actually drowning. It's also called "controlled" because the torturers stop before their victim dies. If you really think this is something you want Americans to do, you need a new head and heart.
Yes, I do not care what happens to some terrorist that may or may not have information. You lost your human rights when you decided to join other fanatics who blow up innocent children in the name of allah.
It is a simple game of good guys vs. bad guys. America = good, Terrorist = bad. Besides, its not like we're putting them into the iron maiden.
Please educate yourself. Read the threads here, and additionally, try to find out what military professional interrogators are saying and how outraged they are about what Bush has allowed.
Weiner doesn't know what he's talking about, he's just spouting nonsense to make money, and considers you a chump for buying it.
Actually you dont care about human rights at ALL. Or are you claiming that people are only tortured AFTER the trial that PROVES they are terrorists? No? There was no such trial? Then they became terrorists because...let me guess, the administration SAID they were terrorists. Like they said the aluminum tubes could ONLY be used for gas centrifuges and the many other lies they told to get their way. Then that would be we are torturing people we THINK are terrorists. HOPING they have information. There goes ANY claim we are a decent people. At least you clearly arent. Lets just join the evil doers club and eschew all standards of humanity, decency, civilized behavior. Since you cons cant man up and stop wetting your beds.
Get back to me the day that you or one of your innocent pals over in the middle east gets kidnapped and tortured by the US. I think i'll be waiting quite a while...
Seriously, do you have so little faith in the CIA that you think they are incapable of finding the most guilty of suspects? Additionally, you seem to have very little faith in our professional interrogators. I'm going to safely assume that CIA interrogators can tell the difference between an innocent who is giving up all the information he/she may have to prove their innocence as opposed to a guilty suspect who is holding back or not talking at all. I would think being able to make that most basic distinction is the most necessary skill for the job.
The idea that a U.S. citizen could receive torture is yet another reason NOT to allow torture. What higher ground could the U.S. claim then? The Geneva Conventions still apply, and when a country does not adhere to them, they can be held guilty of war crimes.
"they can be held guilty of war crimes." - Oh no, other countries are going to slap us on the wrist for waterboarding terrorists that would blow up their innocent citizens just as quickly as they would ours.
Nah you wont be waiting at ALL
http://www.aclu.org/natsec/emergpowers/22207prs20051206.html
According to the ACLU lawsuit, El-Masri, a 42-year-old German citizen and father of five young children, was forcibly abducted while on holiday in Macedonia. He was detained incommunicado, beaten, drugged, and transported to a secret CIA prison in Afghanistan, where he was subjected to inhumane conditions and coercive interrogation. El-Masri was forbidden from contacting a lawyer or any member of his family. After several months of confinement in squalid conditions, he was abandoned on a hill in Albania with no explanation, never having been charged with a crime.
According to the ACLU, soon after El-Masri was flown to Afghanistan, CIA officers realized that they had abducted, detained, and interrogated an innocent man. Tenet, former director the CIA, was notified about the mistake, yet El-Masri remained in detention for two more months.
If you have SO much trust in the government why do we have trials at ALL? Why have a justice system surely like the CIA the police NEVER make mistakes right? What good are courts? We can just TRUST the justice system. You and your fascist friends just cant wait to deny ALL rights to ALL people.
Your little story did not include waterboarding. So, i'm still waiting. Its not like we pull someone off the street and immediately waterboard them.
We both know the enemy we face now is often very difficult to pin down. They hide among us and blend in. They act "normal." Are we going to make mistakes in trying to identify those who hold important information? Yes, and the story you provided shows us the result of that. Is it wrong? Yes, but what are you going to do? Shut down CIA operations so we dont grab anyone that is innocent? I would rather make a mistake like this, than pass up valuable intel due to inaction.
It's also called "controlled" because the torturers stop before their victim dies.
The word "controlled" is superflous since it decribes the planning and practices, and adhering to rigid rules. This is obvious to everyone but Mary, obviously.
...and is not a qualifer for the word "drowning". Simulated is.
A controlled drowning would be where someone actually drowns.
This not-so-sublte difference is waaaay beyond Mary's grasp.
I hear that there are these buildings with rooms very controlled atmosheres and conditions where they drug people and cut them open with knives.
They call it *SHUDDER*...surgery
They say it's all about saving lives
sorry to report that once again, you don't know what you are talking about. What a computer commando you are.
http://www.chicagoreader.com/features/stories/torture/
http://aguyinthepew.blogspot.com/2007/10/another-army-officer-speaks-out-against.html
http://www.rps.psu.edu/unplugged/fall07/marks.html
Reading this comment by Mary reminds me of the classic scene from Animal House where Bluto is trying to rally the frat into action and one of the lines was "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Otter gets this quizzical look on his face and Boon says" Forget about it. He's on a roll."
I think Mary is capable of realizing her stupidity either.
???Stranger, have a Merry Christmas. Enjoy the links. Here's an excerpt from the last one:
"Although in our post 9-11 world, interrogation techniques have moved in a more violent direction, coercion wasn't always the norm. During World War II, Marks noted, Allied interrogators extracted vast amounts of information through a conversational approach. Recently, surviving American members of a top-secret special unit dubbed "P.O. Box 1142" revealed that they "got more information out of a German general during a game of chess or ping pong than what they get today through torture."
"Nobody can resist torture," continued Marks. "People will talk, but using torture and aggressive interrogation to make people talk is not a good way to capture actionable intelligence." He cited the 1992 U.S. Army Field Manual, which states that use of threats and insults is neither necessary nor effective for interrogation. Explained Marks, "Aggressive interrogation yields unreliable results, may damage subsequent collection efforts, and can induce the source to say what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear."
Don't you think there is a major difference between a German officer/soldier fighting because their country is at war, and a radical islamic fanatic committed to killing those who do not accept their religious views?
Mary is a very bright lady. YOU on the other hand are dumber than a dirt popsickle. Waterboarding has been considered torture since they used it during the Spanish inquisitions if it was being used on OUR guys no one would be quibbling. You are disgusting and appologies for torture make my skin crawl
Mary, I too was just thinking that this Stranger fellow doesn't read anybody's posts here. I wonder if he thinks he's changed anybody's mind or if he's hurt anybody's feelings. I'm thinking that's negatorious (from the Latin)....learned that from Fin doncha know, his negatory comment. I had to look that one up. ;-0)
I guess ol' John is one of them there posters who doesn't read or maybe comprehend other's posts here. Let's just blow em all to H E double hockey stick, make the world a better place, damn the torpedoes, yada, yada, yada. Must be a Coulter and Savage Fan. Wants to open up a can of whoop butt on ever'body. Man, is he a thinker or what? Or maybe a wild eyed reactionary. Who says men aren't as emotional as women? ;-)
It's a wild night here on these internets, but thanks to you & Solon, it's been fun! The trollers have an amazing ability not to absorb any actual information.
Nighty night.
The trollers have an amazing ability not to absorb any actual information.
Nighty night.
You got that right sister.
You know, I have family ties (through marriage) to Senator Diane Feinstein, and have actually met Pelosi and Harman, but not Barbara Boxer. I think they are fine, up-standing individuals who truly have the nation in their best interest. anyone who says otherwise needs to have closer ties than me.
BTW, I know Feinstein isn't in the list, but he may as well have said all Democratic women in congress.
What this President Bush does becomes a moral guideline for the rest of the world.
OF COURSE it's OK now to waterboard American soldiers taken prisoner. Bush says it's OK.
OF COURSE it's OK to ignore other nations' sovereignty, invade and occupy them, for no good reason. When Saddam invaded Kuwait, we seemed to be against it, but now ... it's an all-right thing for nations to do. WE did it, after all.
Ignore treaties? No problem. America no longer follows Rule of Law, so it's now green-lighted for all other nations to ignore law.
Ignore a nation's Legislative body, and act as a dictator and tyrant? No problem. Just attach a little "signing statement" to any law, and the President is exempted from his oath of office (swearing to enforce all laws and uphold the Constitution). Don't like pesky legislative bodies, you would-be tin-horn monarchs? No problem. Just IGNORE those laws. W says it's OK!
Hire mercenaries to help fight wars, and exempt them from ANY oversight or legal responsibility for their actions? No problem, all you other countries. Bush says that's a great thing to do.
America used to stand for honorable principles, and was the shining example of democracy, fair play, morality, and following the rules. NO MORE. No siree, Bush has singlehandedly freed up the world from any restrictions on RAW POWER of "the executive".
And these are things we will be dealing with for decades to come. We have GW Bush to thank for a world taught to act just like W ... which is to say, like lawless dictators without soul.
Excuse me Tex are you on the wrong thread?
Does anyone have a clue what Tex's rather long sermon has to do with Savage?
Well, to be fair to TEX, the word "waterboard" was used in the body of the post, so it becomes fair game to use.
HaHa good point Oscar...that's usually all it takes for one of Tex's long winded rants ;-)
Handsome guy, I didn't find Tex's post irrelevant to this thread. Are you tryin' to start some fisticuffs? ;-)
Well of course I am my sweet Julia, you know I'm quite the provocateur ;-)
But seriously, please do explain to me what relevance Tex's post has to this Savage thread.
And get into a peeing contest. I'd lose since I can't pee standing up. Now, j2, are you guilty of not reading the whole thread again? :-)
I can't believe the FCC allows this guy to rant on and on like this and when Janet Jackson's nipple is exposed for a nanosecond they levy huge fines against CBS. Oh, but wait a minute, Savage was only making a joke, and I "just didn't get it".
You equate inappropriate public exposure with your idea that there may be some innuendo in Savage's words?
So, Fin, are you saying that a woman's bare breast is offensive to you, but a guy saying he'd rather be tortured than associate with women seems normal to you?
You're really on a streak here.
So, Fin, are you saying that a woman's bare breast is offensive to you, but a guy saying he'd rather be tortured than associate with women seems normal to you?
You are twisting my words, a common liberal practice so i guess it is nothing new. I did not say 'offensive' (although there may be cases where this might be so) rather i said it was inappropriate. I am sure you understand why this is so.
Savage was not saying that he'd rather be tortured than be associated with all women, Just those particular "yentas" and i can see why.
Pardon me for twisting your words. I'll retract that and be more exact; A woman's bare breast is inappropriate to you, but a man who would rather submit to some S&M than have dinner with certain women is something you can relate to.
Is that more accurate?
You are on your way but your comments are still fairly convoluted. Allow me.
I find a bare breast inappropriate on TV when a young child sits down to watch a music artist they like. Do you not think that this sets a bad example? Such exposure should not be surprisingly shown to those who are not seeking it out. Believe me there are certain women that i would not like to spend a second of my time with. I am sure you can agree, you probably are not ecstatic to have dinner with some harridan just because she is a woman, if you are, then you must be the epitome of a die-hard progressive.
I don't think Janet Jackson is old enough to be a harridan. You really must look up that word. Now if she actually were a harridan, then no.....her breast would probably be too saggy to tantalize much. ;-0) You are such a fuss budget, Fin I am. Really too, too much. I must say you are inadvertenantly funny.
Or perhaps inadvertently funny, ha.
I like this bonmot too:
You equate inappropriate public exposure with your idea that there may be some innuendo in Savage's words? Fin I am
Gee, I think concrete words are not innuendo or somebody's idea. He said certain things which are not terribly subjective or abstract.
Well, let's be fair, Savage states right in his slugs that there will be "psychological nudity," so I think that actually puts the truth to the comparison, ne?
The FCC is equaly fair to anyone who talks on the public airwaves. Besides, the boundaries are set by public standards, and clearly you are not in tune with them. Savage knows what he's doing: he's the best in the business.
SAVAGE!
Yep, I have to admit - Republicans are best at weaseling their way through all the loopholes.
Then how did Billyboy get Monica to weasel through his loopholes?
Les, if Clinton had never existed, you'd have to invent him.
You mean he is the most INSANE in the business. He really resonates with the ignorant bigot set.
Savage tells it like it is. I don't agree with the way he says it....but I'm afraid he's right. It's time for America to wake up.
He is right about it being better to be tortured than eat tortollini? How stupid is THAT? The man is an insane bigot with HUGE problems with women. How could anyone in their right mind take the crazyman seriously?
Actually Vareniki and pelmeni are used pretty much interchangeably. Ravioli have a different kind of stuffing. Although you might say that true homemade italian ravioli would be much more pleasant than the common canned junk. Still i think that Vareniki would be better. What is the relationship between that and Harman? is she Slavonic?
Michael Savage is great!
The Weinerdog is an insane bigot. I guess he would appeal to other insane bigots. Other than that he is a great object lesson about what happens when the mentally ill go off their medication. Beyond that he is a worthless angry bigot without a shred of decency.
I'll admit that I have listened to Dr. Savage quite frequently, and he does this sort of outrageously offensive thing on our airwaves almost every hour of his show. He is nothing more than a lonely, angry man who pines for the way our country was in the 1940's and 1950's when everything was owned and controlled by cuacasion males. Disgusting.
He is not the only one pining for the 50's and Caucasian control.
Well at least you admit it...but ugh, you seriously need to evolve. This planet is moving light years away from that kind of idiocy.
I listen to Savage daily, he kinda ripped into yall today. He didn't say anything wrong and I support him 100%. I think they should burn the soles of those prisoners at gitmo with cattle brands until they start telling us what we want to know. If he stole a burka when he was 12, I want to know about it.
You are sick. Seek the help of a mental health professional immediatly. The only question here is does listening to the Weinerdog make one an insane bigot or does he just appeal to insane bigots?
My God, Solon, I lost count of how many times you used the term "insane bigot" in the past few posts. I mean, when someone agrees with Savage, do you have to follow up each post with "Savage is insane. His listeners are insane bigots?" We get the point.
You have made it abundantly clear what your views are on the man and his listeners; there has to be something more interesting to comment about.
Savage is great, Savage is right, Savage rocks, et cetera. So I have some obligation to actually come up with shiny new and original comments on the same old rah rah comments about Savage? If you are bored with my posts feel free to skip them. I will decide how I post. If you wingnuts werent so repetitive and boring I would have something to work with and something different to say. Anyone who is so enthusiastically endorsing inhuman torture IS sick and DOES need help. The Wierdog spews insane bigotry day in and day out. I think the kind of people who cheer that either see themselves in such insane bigotry or are in some sick way attracted to it. I dont really care if you agree. IF you can come up with some actual POINT about it we can talk. If all you do is cheer then snivel then we are stuck in the loop.
"Anyone who is so enthusiastically endorsing inhuman torture IS sick and DOES need help." - I know, the millions and millions of Americans who made that movie "Hostel" and those "Saw" movies such big hits need to get some medication, pronto. I'm sure no liberals went to see those movies though, liberals would never pay to see a movie where innocent people get tortured.
While we are on movies, I watched "The Life Aquatic" with Bill Murray last night. So good. Can we agree on that?
I see. Let me help you out until you can increase YOUR medication. Those movies are what is known as FICTION. That means they arent REAL. The people who go see those movies and rent them. They KNOW they are FICTION, that is THEY ARENT REAL. Personally I havent seen any of those movies I dont consider it entertainment. I did see the Life Aquatic and didnt consider THAT entertainment either. Bill Murray needs to get a real job. After you get a proper dose of medication and can tell the difference between what happens to REAL people and FICTIONAL portrayals. Feel free to get back to me.
Please, it was a loose analogy, which I think you probably understood, but we are both too hard headed to give in to anything either of us says.
"I did see the Life Aquatic and didnt consider THAT entertainment either. Bill Murray needs to get a real job." I can see if your not into his acting style, but a real job? Come on...what is entertaining to you Solon? Do you drink? That might lighten you up a bit.
What a great man! We need more talks how hosts like Savage around. we need to kick out the illegals before they run us out of our country.... we should waterboard everyone in prison at least a few times a week!!! we need to lower taxes and keep fighting in Iraq! As well as go after Iran, Korea, India, and China...!!!
Let's Bomb!!!
Jay.
Was that a joke or are you as insane as the Weinerdog?
What Savage said is absolutely true. These two idiots did nothing but win the marriage lottery.
By the way, Harmon Kardon speakers suck.
Not only are these two witches stupid, but they are liars as well. There is documentation that they supported and endorsed waterboarding, but then they were caught lying about it.
if they lived anywhere else but California, their dishonesty and stupity woud have been recognized and there would have been no chance they would have been elected and been able to impose their criminality on the people of the US.
What Savage said is absolutely true.
I'm not sure that Weiner has ever said anything true, from his idiotic theories on herbal medicine, to his obsessive whining about being Alan Ginsburg's friend when he was trying to get in with the Berkeley crowd in the 60's, to when he claims to be heterosexual, to when he says "Hi, I'm Michael Savage."
You are a liar and a fool. The Wienerdog is NOT right he is also a liar and a fool. Not to mention an insane bigot. I get that appeals to you. Seek help.
I love Savage! He and people like him are doing far more damage to the right's credibility than any lefty ever could. Sometimes I think he is a very clever liberal operative, but who knows. Regardless of his motives the end result is certainly favorable. The pendulum swings both ways.
Again with Michael Savage. Geez. What's the deal? You think a nut like Michael Savage represents a majority of conservatives or Republicans in this country? The guy is a nut. He's screwed up in the head. When your website Media Matters devotes so much time and energy picking apart Michael Savage's quotes on a daily basis, it makes you look petty and foolish. You don't see conservative websites spending so much time and energy picking apart quotes from Fred Phelps or Mike Malloy, do you?
A. What a pathetic attempt to lump Fred Phelps in with progressives. I could have sworn that all those other fools railing about the dangers of homosexuals in our society were republicans, I guess you could provide me with some evidence to the contrary.
B. Your fellow right-wingers on this thread couldn't wait to bring up Savage's millions of (supposed) listeners, and how he is one of the top rated talk radio hosts, so I think it is pretty obvious that he is a powerful figure in the republican noise machine. If you don't like it, or are embarrassed that your dirty laundry is being aired out here, I don't think you'll get any sympathy from anyone here.
The point is that Phelps fits right in with the leftist crowd because neither is progressive.
Phelps just doesn't bother to try and hide his bigorty, misogyny, homophobia and contempt.
i wonder why the MSM has not brought up the very deep, strong, and long-term ties between Phelps and Al Gore? The latter hired the former during his campaign to be the presidential nominee to deal with the "gay problem."
I know this is an exercise in futility but do you have proof, and not some right wing website, I mean real legitimate proof that Al Gore hired Phelps?
Crickets chirping!!!
Well, this should shut the crickets (and hopefuly the left wing apologists) up
http://www.lcrga.com/archive/200010251159.shtml
...or how about that right wing rag Mother Jones?:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/1999/03/lauerman.html
Or how about this from that GOP propaganda outlet Wikipedia?:
In his 1984 Senate race, Gore opposed a "gay bill of rights" and stated that homosexuality was not something that "society should affirm".[39] Phelps has stated that he supported Gore because of these earlier comments.[40] Members of the Westboro Baptist Church helped run Gore's 1988 campaign in Kansas. Phelps' son, Fred Phelps Jr., hosted a Gore fundraiser, which Al and Tipper Gore attended, at his home in Topeka.[10][40] Fred Phelps, Jr. served as a Gore delegate to the 1988
An interesting article by Mother Jones. In it, we find that Phelps began as a civil rights advocate and was totally zealous about it. He hosted a fund raiser for Al Gore in the late 1980's, BEFORE he began his gay bashing campaign (which began in 1991, according to the article) People much closer to Phelps and his family were taken by surprise by his new crusade. From the article:
"In 1992, York was a manager at a Topeka landmark, the Vintage, a restaurant and bar popular with state and local political leaders. Jonathan Phelps, one of Phelps' lawyer sons, had represented her in a small legal case in the mid-'80s, and after the family had all but declared war on gays, York, a lesbian, felt betrayed: "It was like being black and finding out you had been represented by the Ku Klux Klan." The City Council asked community members to form a gay and lesbian task force; by being on it, she hoped to counter the Phelpses' growing impact."
Phelps is a seriously disturbed individual in a world of his own. I seriously question your ability to comprehend what you read.
This wasn't even a good try, Mary. 1991 was his first documented public attack on gays. The antipathy and activism was there all along. he was hired by Gore to help Gore advance his official anti-gay agenda.
Why do you guys continue to lie...and when that doesn't work.. be apologists for the rampant, flagrant, blatant unchecked bigotry of the left?
You certainly revealed yourself in your response to Julia, below. We who accept evolution because we witness it recognize how our own views on homosexuality have evolved.
Guess you enjoy being in the borderland where you can invent your own reality. 'Ta ta.
''Many people in America have come to learn about the problem of antigay discrimination and changed their view over the years,'' said Gore spokesman Doug Hattaway. ''Policy makers are no exception.''
And further down in the Wikipedia that the Stranger truncated for his own benefit is this:
During the 1992 presidential campaign, Phelps protested Hillary Clinton during a campaign speech in support of the Clinton-Gore ticket at the University of Kansas on October 14, 1992. In Bill Clinton's second presidential campaign, Phelps and the Westboro church also opposed Clinton and Gore because of the administration's support for gay rights. The entire Westboro congregation picketed a 1997 inaugural ball[43], denouncing Gore as a "famous f-g pimp."[44] In 1998, Westboro picketed the funeral of Gore's father, screaming vulgarities at Gore and telling him, "your dad's in Heill."[44]
So the question is this? Why does the Stranger continue to lie when it's apparent that Al Gore has had an evolution in his views on gays? So much so that Phelps was picketing his Dad's funeral!.
So where does it read that Gore had an evolution. Al's buddy Freddy phelps was demonstrating against the CLINTON administration, not the Gore administration. Clinton had the pro-gay policy (probably because his lesbian wife pushed him on it), not Gore
All this was going on about the same time he and Tipper wre trying to censor the music industry.
Oh, by the by,the reason for Al's buddy Frddy Phelps antipathy to Al senior was Al senior's fight against equal rights for blacks.
I repeat, I simply cannot understand the constant attempts to justify hate and bigotry on the left.
Well, you have certainly outed yourself as a hater. So why did Phelps call Gore a F-g pimp. You are just a rank and unrepentent liar. And why are you calling our former first lady a lesbian? And what does any of this have to do with Savage being a loud mouthed, vile bigot, homophobe and misogynist?
And the word f-g isn't the F word I couldn't get by the bad word thingy here. It's what Anne Coulter called Al Gore and John Edwards. A total f-g. Got it?
Damn, the Stranger is defending Phellps. Knew it had to happen sometime.
One bigot defending another, isn't that cute.
It's a good thing Gore's "evolution" in thinking about gays happened in the 90's. If it had happened in the past 7+ years, he would be known as another "flip-flopper."
Actually it happened in the 80's, 20 years ago. Pyschologically healthy people have flexible minds. When presented with new information they can shift attitudes if the information warrants. But authoritarian types can't change, they just become jealous bitter people. People jealous of Al Gore and his accomplishments. That would be Weiner.
I hope the Stranger didn't get a hernia while straining to make his "points".
Umm..show me again where Gore renounced his hate of gay folks.
Surely, in this Age of Google, the proof would be able to find, dontcha think?
If he were so "pstchologically healthy', why the irrational hate in the first place, huh?
Again, another perfect example of apologism for hate and bigotry by the left.
You have not in any way demonstrated that Al Gore has/had any hate for gays. His speech even when he said he didn't affirm the lifestyle was mild. Show us some speeches with virulent hate. You can't find any because they do not exist except in your own little mind. He did evolve in his thinking and a small google search has many articles from many sources if you are willing to research beyond what is on your hate sites or from Savage's filthy mouth. You are tilting at windmills trying to distance yourself from Weiner's hate speech by attempting to project it onto "leftists", which is a stupid term. It shows you are parrotting talking points from radiocons or other web sites that deal in con misinformation. You are just too dumb to think on your own. Disgraceful.
He did evolve in his thinking and a small google search has many articles from many sources if you are willing to research
Well, well...did check and all I came up with was Gores negative comments about gays..and his associationwith Fred Phelps.
I found nothing, absolutely nothing, where Gore renounced his hate speech against gays...or his association with Fred Phelps.
Neither did you, obviously, since you did not cite any sources.
Lie...is what the left does..it's all they have.
Naturally all you would find is the Log Cabin Republicans' attempt to tie Gore with Phelps...because no one else thinks it is believable but a group of gays who belong to a party that is pointedly anti-gay.
I wonder why you are wasting so much time posting about Al Gore on this thread?
MD, if you were wearing your tin foil hat you'd know these things.
If you're not wearing it, how do you expect to get the real dirt on those "progressives" like Phelps?
At one time, I only got my news through the usual channels but now with this hat, I'm getting it all.
I even get old "Happy Days" episodes beamed in from the ethers with my wingnut news.
[link to upload.wikimedia.org]
No the point is he is a rightwing moron like YOU and since he is so reviled he has embarassed even YOUR side you TRIED to link him to US. It was desperate and stupid. Pretty much in line with everything you post. Good luck coralling a few braincells some day.
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
— Euripides
We will see if the Sun ever dawns on a day when you talk sense that is. I wont be holding my breath. I figure my goldfish will talk sense sooner
HOTWINGS: Huh?
Fred Phelps – a guy who ran 5 times for public office as a Democrat, but never won – is hardly a mouthpiece for liberals. Look at the guy’s history – about the only argument you might make is that “he’s so far right, he’s left”! Phelps has spoken out against one or two conservative issues and now he’s just another far-left liberal pinko commie, huh? It just shows how the mind of a conservative works and how eager they are to throw someone under the bus the second they say something that does not “toe the line”. Most Democrats don’t consider Fred Phelps “one of us”, or someone who represents our views.As for Mike Malloy – you might have me there, but you have to admit that the “balance of power”, when it comes to the airwaves and in-your-face shock-jock types, is definitely in your favor. So it makes sense for us to turn to alternate means, such as this website, to balance the drivel and stop the bleeding by exposing mistruths and discrepancies wherever we can.Besides, by your way of thinking (using the Fred Phelps comparison), regardless of anything else Mike Malloy’s said or done in the past, he is also on your side because he has stated that he will longer donate money to the leadership of the Democratic Party, which he feels is “weak and docile”. If he’s not with us – he must be against us (Just as GW says). Damn traitor; maybe we should throw him under the bus too? LOL
You can’t have it both ways, sorry.Arguments to your analogies aside, if conservative websites want to let slide any misinformation that any left-leaning media outlets might disperse – that is their prerogative, but it’s not what MMFA is about.So then your point is that since the Weinerdog spouts so MUCH insanity and bigotry that MMFA ought to IGNORE it instead of exposing it? I am sure the rightwing would LOVE that but I dont think its in the lefts best interest. I dont think these bloviating screechmonkeys represent the right, I dont see where anyone said they did. Dont hold your breath until MMFA decides to ignore this whacko. That is my advise.
And I thought the comedy writers were on strike. He is very funny, and can see why his show is so popular.
"We hope they were waterboarded. In fact, we'd recommend even more torture. We're glad that no bombs have gone off in America since 9-11. And if you idiots would get out of the way, we could wipe the planet of this virus."
Yes, yes, yes. That is one the best statements Savage has ever made. Thank God at least 1 person out there speaks the blunt truth about normal people's opinion on terrorist scum.
Yes.......his..... argument.....is......so........convincing. I'm.....really......sold.....on....this.......bit.....of......hyperbolic idiocy
John, you and Finarfin have both used the term "normal people" to describe Savage's audience. I think your definition of "normal" might need a little tweaking.
You also might want to apologize to normal people everywhere.
The truth makes alot of people angry.
Yes I agree with you. That's why you like Savage; he appeals to all you angry frustrated people who don't like hearing the truth.
I wasn't aware I was angry or frustrated. Hm. You learn something new everyday I suppose.
Savage has strong opinions and he's not polite about how he expresses them. That's his right.
Even if you consider him angry and frustrated, the fact that I enjoy his radio show doesn't mean I am him, or that our views are the same. He's entertaining and it's good radio, in my opinion.
Only in your narrow black and white world view does that equate to me being "angry and frustrated."
Excuse me, I have to go beat my wife and kick the dog now. Have a wonderful day and a merry Christmas!
Okay. Merry Christmas to you, too.
There once was a poster called Ripper
He fancied himself quite a quipper
But instead we get stuck
With his posts that just suck
'Cause like Mike, he's on a hate tripper
It is not the first time,
Ripper is attacked by rhyme,
yet JuliaJane,
Unabashed and inane,
insults as one with a Blasenstein.
I ain't gonna look up blastensavage. I don't know or care what it is. And you can't use the word inane to rhyme with Juliajayne, it's on the list of pre-empted words rhyming with my moniker. Just ask Tommy. :-0)
Oh, just two more questions:
Is your first name Jack?
And does is your wife a Weiner fan, too?
No.
No. She doesn't listen to him. I only listen to him on the drive home from work. She has heard parts of his broadcasts though and thinks he's funny.
Just a guess, but I think if she listened to him more, she would find him obscene. So would your mother.
"Excuse me, I have to go beat my wife and kick the dog now. Have a wonderful day and a merry Christmas!"
hahaha. beat my wife and kick the dog, best one-liner i've read on this site.
How would YOU know. You wouldnt know the truth if it stole your car and ran over your dog.
I'm afraid Solon has you beat with that one. It's a great line. And Mary's line about having to invent Bill Clinton was good too.
WOW. So the question is are insane bigots like you attracted to the Weinerdogs insanity and bigotry or does lisetening to the Wienerdog turn one INTO an insane bigot? Inquiring minds want to know.
Now this poster would be a good example of "angry and frustrated." That much is evident in his vitriolic posts, and I don't think he's a Savage fan at all! Go figure.
So you project on us all day long and now you accuse someone else of being angry again? As they say in computer speak - garbage in (Savage), garbage out (your posts).
Which of my posts is "angry?"
Solon's posts on the other hand are nothing but insults, personal attacks, and full of such rage that it is almost dripping off the screen.
I'm pretty laid back myself. I have a different point of view than most here, but I'm certainly not angry. I have fun posting here.
Your limerick was pretty good btw. I got a little laugh out of it, and Mary's earlier.
I better go make sure the wife's got dinner going. Sometimes she escapes the kitchen. I'll check back here later.
You have no clue who is angry, but I guess that's your schtick. That's why you aren't being taken in esteem here. You are projecting obviously, but you can try to squirm out of it (sometimes called denial) if you desire. What do I care. I hope your wife isn't serving pasta.
Its this months hivemind talking point. Liberals are full of rage. He has been instructed that is what he is to believe.
I have fun posting too. You really CANT read minds. I have zero emotional investment in this, I just amuse myself. So you AGREEING with the Wienerdogs stupid statements and telling us they were the truth and that made us angry was NOT supposed to be insulting? Are you kidding me? Even YOU cant be that dumb. This isnt your first rodeo either please stop pretending you dont insult us liberals when I laugh too much it makes my stomach hurt
Another whiny conservative thinking he can read minds again. I am not angry and FAR from frustrated. I have a great life and LOVE being me, ask anybody. Of COURSE I am not a Wienerdog fan. I am not an insane bigot. Why would I be angry? You dont really think posts as dumb as yours could make me angry? Sad maybe that people as dumb as you can vote just like me.
So your non-stop rants about "insane bigotry" and your preferred method of labeling those who disagree with you as "morons, dumb, mouth-breathing, racist, etc...." is indicitive of your happiness?
Everyone has a different definition of happiness I suppose.
Happy happiness Solon!
You guys sure miss the days when you had the exclusive franchise on personal attacks dont you. WWAAAHHHH why wont we stop treating you guys the way you treat us? The Wienerdog IS insane, he is also a bigot. That is pretty easy to see. When you so enthusiastically endorse his insanity and bigotry it is a fair assumption you share it. I could be wrong. Show me. I wont be holding my breath.
"The Wienerdog IS insane, he is also a bigot."
Is he an insane bigot when he regularly states that the future of this country is in the hands of strong willed women? Is he a bigot when he reads pro-women bible passages on his show? Is he a bigot when he repeatedly stands for freedom of religion? Is he a bigot when he agrees with moderate muslim callers?
No, those sound like reasonable statements, which means WHAT? Did you think he gets chits everytime he says something reasonable that he can then cash in and demand an exemption from criticism for his forays into insane bigotry? I tell you what we can agree on this. I will take your word for the fact that every word out of the Wienerdogs mouth isnt insane bigotry. Meanwhile when he DOES spout the insanity I will feel free to comment on it. Sounds like a good deal to me.
There we go, sounds good.
Who are the sponsors of this sexist pig? It's time for a boycott!
Was Savage speaking of this maybe?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html?hpid=topnews
If he was then MMfA is just dancing around the flame. Once again, stumbling over a dollar to pick up a dime.
Glad I took the time to read that, very interesting. I'm surprised that nobody commented on it. Aside from our personal beliefs on the matter, it shows us clearly that the politicians do not care about ethics or human rights. But when those two issues can be used for political gain or to "whoo" the public with compassion, they sure do love to act like they care.
c'mon, this is just theatrics to get this idiots numbers up. Shamefully i'll digress to a cartoon show by pointing to "Family Guy" where Louise is runnig for some political seat. No one is remotley interested in her until she says "9/11" in her speeches. the audience goes wild and her numbers increase every time she says "9/11" Savage is the same. Hard to think that the writers of a cartoon series understand this.
That Family Guy episode was a hoot. All I could think of was Giuliani.
Ever watch “Lil’ Bush” on Comedy Central? This cartoon has some of the best satire against the current administration out there – and is right on the money. You have to watch closely to catch all the subliminal messages. The only part I don’t like is when they start the “Archies”-like band of Bushies songs. But I guess they need the silliness to offset the seriousness of the deep issues in the ironies that had just been exposed in the previous scene – which might have been enough to make a Republican wanna slit their wrists.
Speaking of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, what about CBS 60 MINUTES behavior trying to put the squeeze play on her in the interview, "Two Heartbeats Away", shortly before she was sworn in? Stahl applied pressure on the impeachment question and yet did nothing to report the grounds for impeachment, they didn't go over any of the substantive train of events to even provoke such a spotlight on Pelosi...(what's wrong with this picture? Maybe Savage's glasses were purchased at a welding supply shop. He better take them off if he want's to get a clue.) That's called serving up some crow for him to eat. And what else?
For an FBI development days ago we have charges on would be Sears Tower demolition experts thrown out in mistrial and one acquittal. Doesn’t that make us feel safe at home, that they’re still trying to put plaster and Arabs on 9-11–to purport any equivalence between that of the security penetration at the WTC and that of the Sears building, to construe systemic failure of the authorities in Chicago before the fact, much else the loading dock shipment arrival of several thousand tons of pyrotechnics would be difficult to explain away without elaborate multiparty accessories on the inside now wouldn’t it? Shred the invoice. I suppose business at the Sears building could carry on as usual while they set that up. “What are those construction men doing?”, you could imagine going asked. So now we have interstate spread of a RICO conspiracy involving major urban disasters of buildings demolition that completely ropes in the FBI as accomplice and their titular chief executive officer.
You creeps try to wrap a rag around my head, go ahead, it's very libeling, and frankly actionable. Go back to your forest monkey, you're in way over your head or attention span.
On the polling non-sequitur, trivially dashed off blather. Take it into the people's arena and see how we'll advance the charges to convictions on all counts. Or is another mass public shooting with loose ends all over it supposed to obstruct that arena, anyone's access to it or the proper function of the authorities by mayhem atrocity intimidations?
All Dave's been going is sticking his tongue out at the public from behind his cage bars. And quite to the contrary, the Freedom of Speech and to Associate has definitely, overwhelmingly advanced the cause of exposing the treachery to Americans and the world. You have eaten your words. What was it you were trying to say?
Secrecy for the crimes of state, that are not pardonable, were crushed long ago by advancing the cause of free association and free speech without incommunicado by secret writs. This has possibly led to tactics compounding the initial offenses so badly there is no other description than civil war and the unavoidable sentencing guidelines.
You see what 60 MINUTES was up to there in that interview don't you?
They were ignoring the substantive track record to even broach the impeachment subjent just to put her in a contrived moment of national embarrassment.
That suits the underdog just fine with these venerable institutions of news journalism we have today, this nice little lady can take the heat for the criminal bums on camer and made to look like her interference is what's potentially criminal just by toying with the idea anybody would do anything about them and their cronies.
Nice work Stahl and CBS, I hope you're proud of yourselves.
Weiner even has contempt for his callers. About six weeks ago, on a Friday, as the music intro to his three hour Sewage fest was winding down he asked his screener-lacky: "Do you have all the yokels lined up?" Presumably, he was referring to his callers.
Weiner. What a dick.
Savage is a puke and a coward, he hates America, and wants it to become a facist type Nazi state, in which only the GOP runs the country...thankfully, nobody cares about this fat moron.
"he hates America" - No, he hates the morally debased portion of America that peddles pornography, abortions, frivilous lawsuits, "leather festivals" in the street.
"wants it to become a facist type Nazi state" - Laughable.
"in which only the GOP runs the country" - Savage rarely agrees with the GOP, and constantly lumps them together with the Democrats. He would like to see an uncompromised outsider with traditional conservative values take office, not a GOP candidate.
I’m a bit perplexed. What use is this organization “Media Matters”?
Who cares what others choose to listen to or believe. Do I need a
group of individuals to decide what to bring to the “Book Burning”?
Will someone expose the validity of Media Matters to me?
Hi Fred, I thought your show ended in the 1960s.
You certainly don't have to like this web site. It points out "conservative" --I'd say, reactionary, information. That's its point of view. You are free to disagree and post any disagreement that isn't off topic or obscene.
No book burning in sight.