Hannity on Obama's pastor: "It seems like he's supporting a segregated church"

Uh...yes, with everything you wrote that was the only thing that I had a point of contention with. Which is why I responded. That's how this whole back-and-forth discussion forum thing works. Why can't you just respond to my question instead of throwing a tantrum?

Why did you have to go and dis Pee Wee like that?

Yeah right. Everytime Rudy or Mitt or Huck are on the talk shows it's free airtime, it's practically a bought and paid for campaign appearance. It's an invaluable service those dj's perform in the service of helping to elect right wing candidates.

I'm not talking about that, but it's nice to see that even reasonable Republicans subscribe to that win at all costs mentality. That's what has permitted this perversion of religion as politics that has enabled the authoritarians, the radical righties like Cheney, Bush, Rove and even zealots like Huckabee and Romney to seize control of the GOP from the hands of the reality based community.

But honestly I think it was the best move the left ever made to not allow the faith based organizations dictate the liberal/progressive agenda. Look what it has done to the right to cast themselves as God's own Party. This fusion of religion and politics has radicalized the Republican agenda to the point that the public's greater good has been privatized and doled out to Christian charities. In short they have set on the path of democracy for the privileged and the chosen. Why? For victory over them libs.

And its that willingness of rank and file Republicans to look the other way and let the radical minority call the shots because they value winning over responsibility, transparency and participation in government.

It has nothing to do with serving the people.

Interesting read.  Let me ask you this though.  When you see the tenets of someone's faith, do you judge them on those or how the person acts?  What has Obama done that would make you think he is not a good Christian or that he puts his blackness in front of his faith?

For instance, in this election, we have a minister who claims to be Southern Baptist.  Do you judge him on the tenets of his faith or his statements/policies of how he expresses his faith?

What about the Mormon candidate?  Do you read the book or Mormon and judge him or make judgments based on his record/policies and how he imparts his faith into them?

Bush also claims to be a Born-Again Christian.  Do you excuse his actions regarding war/poverty, etc which seem to be in direct contradiction to his "beliefs" because he claims to be "Born-Again?"

In other words, the mission statement of any church could say a large variety of things.

I think the order of "black" before "Christian" is a stretch of the highest order. If they see the two things equally, then it shouldn't matter what order they put it in.  One has to come before the other.  I think it reads and sounds better the way they have it.

Sigh.

Why do conservatives play this game? Once again we find ourselves with someone that suffers cultural amnesia. Allow me to walk this through with you since it seems you're another conservative that sees things in such stark black-and-white (no pun intended) terms.

The black church was created out of Slavery and segregation. Hard to believe, but America was once a society that taught blacks to be ashamed of their race, to the point where many blacks accepted such nonsense which created a lot of self-hate and doubt of their ability to compete with whites. The black church was one of the only few places blacks could go to find self-worth -- a humanity that no one from the dominant culture could take away from them. The black church helped cure many of the scars and wounds of white supremacy. Thus, in a place where one is taught to be ashamed of one's race, the black church taught to reaffirm one’s race while accepting values that transcends not only one's race but class. This is one of the hallmarks of the black church: it helped rehabilitate a group of people whose spirits were beaten down after hundreds of years of brutal oppression. To quote James Baldwin, “Subsequently, the slave was given, under the eye, and the gun, of his master, Congo Square, and the Bible--or in other words, and under these conditions, the slave began the formation of the black church.” So with the little scraps that the slaves were given, they took the scraps and turned them into something that not only empowered and gave them livelihood, but the tenets were also the centerpiece of the Civil Rights Movement in using civil-disobedience and pushing oneself against the odds for equal rights, even when the system was not in one’s favor.

The black church not only has its origins in Slavery and segregation, but also the field hollers and Negro Spirituals. The Negro Spirituals gave America Gospel music, and from there came Blues, then Jazz, then R&B, then Rock ‘N’ Roll. Technically, American culture is a mix of European, African and Native American traditions. Thus, to categorize the black church as being separatists or nationalistic—as if its existence came out of superiority rather than force—is to treat it as something alien when in reality it has contributed a lot to American popular culture.

Finally, I’m just dumbfounded that conservatives would be the first to yell “reverse-racism,” “Afrocentric,” “separatist,” etc., when the black church, at its core, basically espouses the same principles that traditionally conservatives place on a mantle: personal responsibility and bootstrap capitalism. The mega churches that multi-millionaire pastors such Creflo Dollar, Eddie Long, and T.D. Jakes operate owe their success to preaching personal responsibility and bootstrap capitalism. Work hard, take care of your family, put God first and life should be just fine, are the sermons one hears each Sunday. Therefore, why are many conservatives like Sean Hannity twisting the fundamentals of Obama’s church when the church’s message aligns with many conservative principles? How is this church message any different than conservative’s favorite black man, Bill Cosby’s, message of self-reliance and black pride? I find so many conservatives telling me, “Well, if Cosby replaced 'black' with 'white' in his speeches, the message is still valid,” but how come the same rules don’t apply to Obama’s church? Black Christians and Conservatives have more in common than what separates them (which is one of the reasons why I no longer belong to a church or even consider myself “spiritual” due to its rampant homophobia, greed and other miscellaneous things) and yet, even with something that should bridge Black Christians and Conservatives together, Conservatives such as Hannity ruining this by using divisive political-hustling.

You're mixing apples and oranges so your argument is flawed. What the mission statement is describing is the make up of the congregation. The congregation is overwhelmingly black as is the neighborhood in which the church is located. They are trying to use Judeo-Christian values and biblical principles to address social issues SPECIFIC to the black community. It's not only Christian it's laudible. So get over it and get over your superior holier than thou attitude.

Hannity started beating this dead horse a few months ago, I guess it speaks to this unspoken notion that there is no more racism in America, that black people (and minorities in general) are whiners who are asking for preferential treatment.  Forgotten is the reason why Trinity CHurch and others like it espouse "Black value systems", and the like (which, to be truthful, might just  be empty religious rhetoric, anyway). It reminds me of the rumblings I heard when I was in high school and white kids racistly wondered out loud why there could be a Black Student Union and not a White Student Union.  Hannity and Coulter's even talking about this is meant to play Obama as a racist to a segment of society who is either racist itself or suffers from a sort of amnesia when it comes to the brutality and institutional injustice faced by people of color historically.  In an age where negative African-American stereotypes are ubiquitous; the player, the pimp, the gangsta, etc., white America thinks there is no need for "black values" (?)  People think that  ethnicity and  religion aren't related at all?  I'm just throwing it out there.  This is obviously an attempt to appeal to racists.

CSL,

To this point I have only printed out the statement listed by Obama's church and asked for different interpretations of that statement. How you interpret that as racism is beyond me. Perhaps you'd care to explain? 

I really do enjoy reading what others here have to say even if I occasionally disagree with them. :-) That goes for you too.  I'm sure if we were all neighbors, I'd be more than happy to have you over to my house to help celebrate this special time of year.

And what do you knuckle-draggers on the right want Obama to do, denounce his church because of it's "Black Values"?

I have not attacked Obama once about this issue.  His faith is between himself and God.

If he did that, you'd be all over him about not being true to his heritage.

?

...you guys are racist scum.

How could I call myself a Christian and be a racist?  Can you point out a single racist statement I made in the previous posts?   

I don't need to rehash this argument out again, but, Trinity is not a Christian church because it is "African-centric" not "Christ-centric".  This is a fact that one can easily see based on their own website.  The fact that the church is black is irrelevant, if there was a "Irish-centric" church, it too would be un-Christian.

For your own sake COMMONSENSELIBERAL, find some common sense. 

I understand Lynn, but just considering the leading contender for the Democratic nomination for President is a black man, we have made great hisorical strides.

One cannot even imagine this would be the case in the first 190+ years of our country's existence.  Which makes those gains in the past 40 years enormous.

Here, here Lynn. Good analysis. The fact is black empowerment language is a direct response to past and current racism. When an entire race has been told in both sublte and blatant terms that they are of little value they begin believing it and it  becomes manifest in myriad ways including feelings of hopelessness and powerlessness. Racial minorities devised this empowering rhetoric as a response not as an assault on other races. All things are not equal and remain far from a color blind society, although we have experienced vast improvements (and a few set backs) over the last 40 years. 

From my perspective it’s basically teaching those who are part of the same race not to become the oppressor—part of the elite—once they reach a certain amount of success and class status. It means to remember one’s roots and to help a fellow brother and sister out that’s struggling. It also teaches not to promote class advancement while being smug and dismissive to those who aren’t making it fast enough. Also there’s a part of that statement which preaches to disavow anti-socialism and greed. Then again, that’s just my perspective from reading it.

So you can read a dictionary, congrats. I feel so stupid. Typical of a liberal though, sarcasm is utterly lost on you. 

While you're reading the dictionary, see what "connote" means as well

Not defending it, just trying to clarify it.  I will try opine and Merry Christmas back at ya.

Very well then. It seems as if this question would haunt me forever if i were not to answer.

White Supremacist (redefined)

1. Someone who views the white race in certain aspects superior to other races, yet not so that this someone is incapable of respect, ability or credibility.